25. The Plateau Trap: How Ego Holds Founders Back

A lot of businesses don’t fail; they stall.

In this episode of From Grit to Growth, Mark Hasebroock and Jennifer DiMotta unpack one of the most common and overlooked growth killers, which is the plateau trap. When a business is still profitable and customers are happy, it’s easy for founders to assume everything is working. But that’s often exactly when progress quietly stops.

Their conversation explores how ego can prevent leaders from seeking outside perspective, why most companies wait too long to make changes, and how bringing in the right expertise can unlock the next phase of growth.

They also break down what actually makes outside feedback valuable, how to get real buy-in instead of forced consulting, and why the best time to bring in help isn’t when things are broken but instead it’s when things are going well.

Sometimes the difference between staying stuck and scaling comes down to whether you’re willing to let someone else challenge how you think.

Connect with us:

• Jennifer DiMotta on LinkedIn
• Mark Hasebroock on LinkedIn

About Dundee Growth Partners 

Dundee Growth Partners provides E-commerce leaders with the strategy, systems, and tools they need to face growth challenges and scale with confidence. With deep industry experience and AI-powered platforms, we help leadership teams scale in a sustainable way. Interested in learning more? Click the link below to get started. 

• Visit the Dundee Growth Partners website

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

There is plenty of data out there that shows that outside feedback can help you make better decisions, and that then leads to business success. There is a correlation in that. Outside feedback is highly valuable.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

From rent to growth, a podcast for e-commerce entrepreneurs and business owners by experts who have been there, done that, and come out the other side. Here are your hosts, Mark Haysbrook and Jennifer D'Mana. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Hello. Jennifer Demana. And I'm Mark Haysbrook. You know, um, one thing I want to share with everybody is discussion about when you possibly might need a fresh set of eyes from the outside for your business. Um, you know, there was a company that we talked to maybe two weeks ago that solid team, solid business, uh, but has experienced a couple rough patches. And I suggested to them, you know, it might make some sense for you to do an autopsy on this. And all it was was the marketing plan. Let's let's just have somebody that actually does this every single day, day in, day out, for companies in your industry of your size and caliber and so forth. Can let's have them just take a look at this because it might be a waste of time, but it might really open something up. And the CEO and founder said, Yeah, no, we got it. We we know what we're doing. We don't, we don't really need anybody to come in. We're just gonna keep going. And you know, it's a plateaued company that is cash flowing. And so here's the founder saying, We're making money, customers love us, you know, we'll just keep experimenting with some things. And to me, the you know, that what came to mind is ego, having an ego around something like this can be really expensive. You know, and if if you realize that I have all the answers, you're going to get stuck. I mean, good founders leverage experts whenever and wherever they can. But let me guess, I guess, toss it to you. When do you know, or when do you recognize that that a founder could benefit from bringing in someone to help them?

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Yeah. I mean, sometimes you don't always know at the very beginning, but um, you know, to that founder that you just talked about, I remember Tony Robbins said one time something of the effect that people don't make change until they're really disrupted. And so, yeah, if you got some uh a business that's plateaued but still cash flowing, they may not be holistically disrupted.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

The thing is, is by the time you are disrupted, it's almost too much, too late for the change. And so you could have had those outside eyes, those fresh eyes in there. You know, you're still the CEO, you're still the founder, you're still the decision maker at the end of the day. So why not? Like we just talked about in a previous episode about getting customer feedback, why not get expert feedback? There's value in both. And um, I I think what we see is founders sometimes don't even know when they're stuck. And so if we can have a good discussion with them on the front end and kind of start to have them pull out the places in which they think they're stuck and then lean into those first. You know, we do a broad set of things for our clients, right? We focus on scale, we focus on simplifying the scale, and we focus on helping them win again. But that means that we have a lot of different places we like to lean into. But when we're going talking to a founder up front, sometimes you want to find that that real pain point and lean into that and have that discussion first.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Because they're a lot more likely to, if they've never had outside expertise and feedback before, this is a barrier by itself.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

And then if you can lean into the pain point and help them solve that pain point, now they're getting it. Now they are like, wow, you know, somebody who does look at this from an outside perspective might be able to give me some good feedback.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

And again, still at the end of the day, they can make a decision. We are here to give them direction, recommendations, and you know, whatever from our perspective, from our experience, and then they get to make that decision. So leaning into that key pain point can sometimes be a way to get in.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Well, what I've seen is they if they do make that decision, or it becomes this board mandate.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

It's not, they haven't bought it. They they aren't interested in it. And so then they're looking for someone to validate their already known conclusion.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

And and so they they do some research and they're like, let's bring in these guys. Hey guys, by the way, that this is what I want you to work on. And this, this is where I am, and I want you to just make sure that I'm right. And so what do you get at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, yeah. And you know what? It's hard to make those situations work. Yeah. Um, you know, you really got to have the person that we're talking to, the person that we're gonna help, they really got to have that buy-in.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

And for those listening out there that are kind of on the fence about this, there is plenty of data out there that shows that outside feedback can help you make better decisions. And that then leads to business success. There is a correlation in that. Outside feedback is highly valuable because us as, you know, if we're inside and we're um operating as a CEO or operating in whatever capacity as a leadership capacity, um, sometimes you get blinded by the fact that you're in on the inside. And so value is getting outside feedback that you can then decide how to use to make smarter decisions when you are on inside the four walls, I like to say. Yeah. Um, the we've had clients that really get it, and that makes things a lot easier in using outside feedback because they actually do utilize it at the end of the day. Yeah, and then we've had other clients, well, I've had some other clients, and it and I it I even come from this. So um a long 25 plus years ago, I remember coming in running a business for a couple of owners, and they said, Hey, listen, you're doing a lot of great things, but we're gonna get you an executive coach. And I thought, what does that mean? Okay. Um, yeah, I could have been really resistant, but at the end of the day, why? You know, get that outside feedback. And here's the thing it ended up being the most meaningful gap up in my leadership style that I could have asked for because somebody was sending back to me the messages I wasn't listening to while I was running this business. So there's an immense amount of value. I don't know if you've run into that before. Like when have you run into a situation where you are trying so hard to get the value of outside feedback to them? And it yeah, sometimes you actually do get through to them at some point in time, but it takes a while.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

It does. Um you and I are both big uh believers in data and and things that just show um here's the good and here's maybe the not so good, and and here's sort of the the in-between. How do we make these last two categories good? And and if there isn't clear answers to that, then it becomes you know, maybe there's some experts who can spend some time on this, break it apart and and then bring it back together with you. And who wouldn't want that? Because if you get everybody nodding their head, like, yeah, actually our gross margin does need to be this, or how come our opacts as a percentage of revenue is this when it should be this? Okay, we need to identify what on earth happened here. And try and position it as not a threat to the people that it's their job, where you look over and say, Well, why aren't you fixing this? You just need somebody to look at it in a fresh way with no threat.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Because everybody gets threatened. Oh, here come the here come the consultants. It's like, no, no, no, no. It's these are people that are, you know, if if you play a sport, do you back to your analogy of the coach? You don't have all the answers. You might be so good, but it's sort of like, I need to maybe be a little bit better. So let me hire this coach to help me get there. Or back to the company I mentioned. They just had a a very small boutique group come in and and do a little bit of a deep dive on their marketing past, current, and then, hey, here are some things. Did you know about this and this and this? And look at this tool that we just plugged in. And and everyone was just kind of like, wow, I've never heard of these things. This is impressive. You know, our conversion rate went up, our cost to acquire went down, you know, our retention of our customers is higher. You know, who doesn't want that? So if you can show and point it back to measurable things, you know, to maybe answer the question directly, that's key.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

That is key. You know, uh something that people don't think about every day is when do I hire an outside expert? And there are a lot of times to hire an outside expert. I think sometimes you think about it in when I'm when it's broke, something's broke. But think about it this way sometimes hiring an outside expert when everything is on a high is actually the best time to hire an expert. I mean, think about Tom Brady. Okay, you think after maybe five Super Bowl rings that he's like, I'm good, I don't need a coach, you know. No, no big deal. I can do this by myself. Why would you ever do that? That was part of the success. That was part of how he got to the five rings. So, of course, he's gonna get what, two more with he's gonna keep going with a coach because he's smart, it's a tool in his toolbox. And so maybe to think about it as non-competitive and non-consultant, let's talk expertise and forget and forget the word consulting, right? Is to think, do I need this tool in my toolbox? Or do I need a better tool of this kind in my toolbox? And if I can get it on the inside, okay, great. But the reality is is you probably need something on the outside as well, because there's deeper knowledge in certain places that don't happen inside the business when it comes to operating a business.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

And that's what we do. We have a depth of knowledge in scaling businesses, in looking at data underneath the income statement. So who would not need that?

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Uh who wouldn't want it, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Who wouldn't want it in reality? Don't you want to be the Tom Brady in your category, in your industry? What do you think it takes to be the Tom Brady? Well, one of the tools in the toolbox is it's gonna take some coaches, coaches, and experts in the right places. And that's what the CEO and founder get to decide. But certainly open the kimono and and welcome the opportunity to find those tools.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah, very true. Very true. And and get rid of the ego at the door. Oh, yeah. You know, because um the the assessment that we do with companies is it's very broad, but it it certainly bubbles up specific issues. You know, the last thing you want to hear is somebody say, Hey, your sales should be higher and your gross margins should be higher. And you kind of go, okay, well, we pretty much know that. You know, and what you and I try and do is the things that we did for all those years, it's all we want in return is to say, give me the specifics here. You know, I I know sales can and should be higher, but tell me how to get there. Why are my operating expenses out of control here? Tell me what the gaps are and what are the things I should focus on immediately and six months and 12 months down the road. Tell me how I can improve my gross margins. What is it that my competitor is doing that I'm not doing? Let's bubble all those things up and then make decisions and true tactical measurable plans around those things. So it's not this pretty PowerPoint deck. It's something that tomorrow morning you kind of say, hey, here's what we're going to attack.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah. You know, what all that data could lead to is another reason to hire an expert. First of all, you know, it's kind of lonely at the top. We talk about this quite a bit. You know, who do you have to talk to? The CEO and founder, who are you talking to about the following? Net new opportunities for your business. So break into a new channel, break into a new category, break into whatever, even hire net new leadership, all of that kind of stuff. You need a partner in crime. And sometimes that partner in crime being on the outside to give you a very objective view of that or give you some direction. It's about the highest value you're going to get in your business. So, um, and you you do this quite a bit.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

I think I've seen that it doesn't, I guess it doesn't fix bad leaders, it it really elevates the strong leaders.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Right. You know, so it it allows them to really excel at what they do best. And it can backfire too, if you have the wrong of the wrong people and you waste time and energy. But um I I really do think it's something that can be of significant value at the right time. And so we just say keep keep an open mind. It's always good for those lifelong learners to to have something available to them to where they can can just say, uh help me here. I mean I I go home and I and my spouse says, Hey, how was work today? And what's your first answer? That's fine. You know, but but inside you're kind of like, Can I I don't even I I don't even know if I should own this company, much less run it, you know? And so figuring those things out and having a confidant that helps you kind of hug you at some time and also just shove you at others is really, I think, very, very valuable.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

And to that point, I mean, accountability is motivates a lot of us, especially at the founder label level. Yeah. You want to be accountable to someone. And when you're lonely at the top, you're not really accountable to anyone. And so why not bring somebody in that can give you the expertise you need, the expertise when you want to grow and move into net new things, and the accountability to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

So those are probably the three things we highly recommend about bringing in outside experts.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Yeah. I just think it's something to strongly consider as part of your strategy and at the right time with the right ones. And, you know, talk talk to people who have done it, get referrals, um, you know, know specifically what it is you're trying to address and fix versus just casting a broad net saying, hey, who does consulting? It's like you don't, you want someone who's an operating partner with you.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah. I'll give you one more live example. One of our older clients is, you know, we we came in and they were, they didn't really have us, this is pretty common actually. This isn't just them, but they had really no strategy, no vision, no, no knowledge of like where are they going in five years? And so we we really helped them get over that hump. Now they have a very clear vision, they have clear strategic pillars, they have clear ownership. Uh, we've helped them rewrite and structure their C-level team to where they're going to be more effective. And, you know, so we're not here to just give you some thoughts. We get our hands dirty as well. And that's what you should look for in outside experts. They need to get their hands dirty in addition to giving you their expertise.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Yeah, it's like, like you said, we we've got weekly tactical plans now and where everyone is accountable who is doing what. And if that slips, it has an impact on everybody. And that wasn't in place before. So I think that's something that's that's really, really valuable.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yep. Exposure creates accountability, and that's what we've created for them. What's one of the things we've created for them? So if you got a lot out of this, uh, give us a review, rating, um, give us some feedback. Feel free to email us. Feel free to go to dundgp.com and check us out. We'd be happy to have a conversation with you about the what you might be needing in your business.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

And just drop us a line.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

We'd be happy to hear from you. Thanks for listening. Appreciate it. We'll see you all soon.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Thank you for listening. If you like what you just heard, give us a like and leave a comment so that more people can tune in. Or go subscribe on YouTube. To learn more about Martin Jennifer, visit Dundee TV.