#30: Return to the Source: Finding Peace, Purpose, and God’s Presence in a Noisy World with Jolien Sterre

A busy schedule can look fine on the outside while your mind feels like it never stops. When that “fog” rolls in, the instinct is to push harder, scroll longer, or search for the next solution. We go the other way and it is surprisingly practical: slow down, get honest, and return to the Source.

I’m joined by Jolien Sterre, a worship leader and songwriter calling in from the Netherlands. We met years ago around World Youth Day, and reconnecting now feels like a reminder that calling does not have to be loud to be real. Jolien shares how she learned to guard her time with Jesus, how Scripture and prayer help her trace restlessness back to what needs attention, and why “quiet time” is often more relational than quiet. We also talk about humility, surrender, and the steady confidence that grows when you stop chasing answers externally and start listening again.

Then we move into music, vocation, and spiritual freedom. Jolien opens up about the fragility of singing under judgment, the moment she knew worship leading was her true calling, and how His Voice Music grew out of simple obedience. You’ll hear a powerful story of a night where the set list changed, a broken heart returned to God, and worship became a space for healing, deliverance, and joy. We also reflect on grief, forgiveness, and what it means to choose love over fear when the world feels shaky. Jolene closes by singing “Reckless Love,” and it lands like a quiet blessing.

If you’ve been feeling stretched, distracted, or spiritually dry, press play and take a breath with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs more space, and if you want a gentle next step, try Fog to Freedom and leave a review with what stood out to you most.

New here? Start with episodes 1-3: “Take Back Your Life”, "From Hustle to Healing",  and “5 to Thrive.” 

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Transcript

Reckless Love Opening And Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love God.

Gillian 0:09

If your days feel full, but your heart longs for more meaning, you're not alone. Between the screens, the schedules, and the never-ending noise, it's easy to lose your sense of peace. But what if the way forward isn't found in doing more, but in learning to slow down, to simplify, to be still. Welcome to Be Still and Live, a podcast for individuals, couples, and families longing for calm, connection, and a more meaningful way to live. I'm Jillian, speaker, coach, and founder of Soleil Health and Wellness, and I'm here to help you create space for stillness and step into a life that feels whole and good again. Today's conversation is from the heart. I met Jolene when we were in our 20s, and she was visiting from the Netherlands to attend World Youth Day in Toronto. We were young and full of hope, and even back then there was something different about her. She had this steady, grounded way about her, a softness, but also a strength. Over the years, watching her life unfold from afar, the same thread has remained. She still lives in the Netherlands and leads worship through her ministry, his voice music. And what strikes me isn't just her gift, it's how she's chosen to live it. In a world that tells us to grow bigger, reach more people, build platforms, she's chosen simplicity. She's chosen to stay focused on what matters most, and she's chosen to guard her time with Jesus. In this conversation, we talk about what simplicity has given her, how she stays grounded, and how she knew music was her calling. At the end of the conversation, Jolene sings for us. So please stay to the end so that you can be touched by her angelic voice. It is so stunningly beautiful. Let's begin.

Old Friends And A Long View

Gillian 2:05

I'm so happy to have you here today. I can't believe you're tuning in from the Netherlands, six hours ahead of us. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

I'm really good. Thank you so much. It's really, really fun to see you again. A really an honor to see you again, Jillian. It's been a while.

Gillian 2:21

It has been. Oh my goodness. So I met Jolene in the Niagara region in Canada when she was visiting for World Youth Day in Toronto. I'm not even sure what year that was, but I was in my my young twenties, I believe. And I'm not sure anymore. I'm not sure, but I cannot believe I'm saying that was that was two decades ago. Unbelievable. And you haven't changed a bit, Jolene. Oh my goodness. It's so good to see your face. But um, Jolene, because she's Dutch and my family is Dutch, my extended family in the Niagara region, um, they were they were hosting a lot of the Dutch um participants of the World Youth Day. So Jolene was staying with my mom's cousin, and we got to know her and some other travelers from the Netherlands. And I instantly connected with this beautiful soul here. And um, we've been able to stay connected throughout the years, and she's now, you know, raising two little kids of her own, and it's just so beautiful how life has evolved. So it's great to see you again. Thank you for the great introduction, Julian. Oh absolutely, and that's that's just the beginning of it. There's there's so much to be said, but we'll jump, we'll dive into your story, Jolene, so that you can share. I'd love, I'd love to hear looking back. Can you see the threads of your calling already forming back in those back in those years in our 20s?

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Honestly, no. Like seriously, my my um journey with the Lord has been like this. You know, it's not sometimes you hear a testimony and it's like like this. But for me, it felt like um yeah, it's really like a journey, a relationship, you know. You get to know the Lord better and you get to know yourself better. And um, through all the things that you go through, you um yeah, your characters formed, you know what I mean? And then um of course I always loved singing, that was for sure. Um, and I always had a heart for broken people, like that was already there. Um but in that time I was still really searching, like um, yeah. I think you know, we all have like a blueprint for our lives, I believe that we have that. Um, but it's sometimes some things are added, or it changes a bit, or um it's not just this one thing, you know what I mean? That's how I experience it. Um yeah, I'm sorry, I I'm trying to speak English really well.

Gillian 5:08

That's okay. You have a beautiful, you have a beautiful accent, Jolene. I can I can listen to you all day long.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

It's Dutch, but um yeah, in that time, um I just got to know the Lord actually, and uh I was so full of him and of the Holy Spirit, and I remember meeting your family, and it was just I was so in love with your family, like I with your culture, with your family, and just the way you um related to each other and how close you were and how how family-oriented you were, and I really, really loved that so much. Um yeah, I remember that time very well, and I remember the conversations I had with your mom and with your family about God, and it was so special, honestly. It's been a really special time.

Gillian 5:57

It was a special time, yes. And I I was early, I was in my early stages of my faith journey too. And I love that you describe it as a relationship. And uh I agree with you, it's something that evolves over time because I think back then I was more focused on the religious aspect of that relationship, but I kind of teased away that aspect, and I see that as something that can be complementary to the relationship. But what I've learned is, and I wish I knew this back then, but I it wasn't meant to be. This this was my story. I've realized recently that the relationship has to come first. It has to come first, and that's what helps you evolve, that's what helps you understand who you are and what your calling is and how to align with that calling so that you can be the healing the world needs around you. And so you can experience the joy of that, of feeling that alignment.

Calling As A Slow Relationship

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yeah, and in like like today, I was thinking about our conversation and how you find rest and stillness in your day. And um, sometimes you have those days, like today, I had a moment where I felt like this restless feeling. And I was like, okay, okay, I know I have to sit down and write and read the word, because then I always find the reason why I feel that way. And sometimes it's like my own feelings, something, sometimes it's something that I feel for other people, or it's just things on my to-do list that I haven't finished, or um, there's something that somebody said that I didn't really um processed, or uh, you know, and then the Lord always shows me, okay, this is something that you have to deal with, Jolene, or um this is what you have to pray for now, or uh yeah, it could, and it can be things uh sometimes for your children or for or in the world or whatever. Um, but this is so how I try to live my life, to always be in the connection with God, you know.

Gillian 7:58

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I I call it flow. You're experiencing flow. And when you feel something disrupting that flow, I love that you said that when you go to the word and when you go to that relationship and you bring it to God, that that's where you find the answer. Yes. Because we're kind of taught to go elsewhere for the answer. We're we're told to grasp at the external for the answers that we're seeking. But what you're saying is you're going inward and you're going back to that relationship, back to that, to that um the the strength that you derive from it. And that's what helps you to get that clarity, to receive the clarity.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Yeah, it's really how it works. Like, yeah, you can you you can call a friend, which is really great. And sometimes God also works, you know, through a friendship and through a conversation. But I believe like in the intimate moments with God or those moments where you really listen to what he has to say, or you know, sometimes he gives like a Rima word through his word or whatever, and it's it just it's life, you know, it's like the bread of life. Yes. This is something that I was like chewing on lately, like the bread of life, and you know, the streams of living water that are flowing out of us, it's like the water and the bread, it's really like every time I focus on him, it gives me life. Yeah. So it's really like bread.

Gillian 9:24

Yeah, I love it. Though the way that um I stumbled upon describing this recently because I was doing a workshop for a group of people. And um the connection that I made was when you come to God, you're you're humbling yourself. It's humility that brings you to God because you're acknowledging that you don't have the answers and that you don't have, you don't know the way forward. And when you're feeling anxious and depressed or frustrated or stuck, it means you simply don't know what to do next. You don't know the path forward. So when you humble yourself and you acknowledge that you don't know the way, but you know the source, yes, of which you could you could find that answer, then that is the most beautiful thing. You're surrendering and you're acknowledging that that you just don't know. But like you said, when you when you continue to go back to that place, you have this confidence that builds over time because you realize when you slow down and when you come back to that space of stillness and that relationship, that that's where your clarity returns. That's where you gain that confidence.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

I just we sang this song lately, like there's something about your name, Jesus, and there's a line that says, You're like the friend that never left. And for me, that's really how it is. It's like when you put time in your friendships or you spend time with your family, you're really building on the relationship and you you get to know each other better, and you need time in that, you know. Time is such a gift to give to somebody, and I believe that God is desiring for our time, you know. Yes, and it says in the word, like we should really achieve on his word day and night, you know. So, yeah, I believe God wants to speak to us and he wants to be there for us, and he wants to be our comforter and um our leader, and yeah, yeah.

Gillian 11:28

All the all the things that we're seeking externally, He He has He can provide all of those things. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So, Jolene, we have to experience that too.

Gillian 11:39

Oh, yes, like absolutely, and more now than ever. And I can see when I look back at my life that um that God was always there through the highs and the lows. And um it was when I really started to carve out time for stillness, being intentional about creating that time in my life that things really started to connect, that they were able to piece together in a way that that gave me that consistent clarity. And now I know because I practice it, every time I neglect that area of my life, I start to spiral a little bit. And I can feel these old habits and these old patterns and this these old mindsets kind of creeping in again. But when I return, it's like I'll come across a reading in my devotions or um a reading in scripture that speaks directly to me and it pulls me out of that space of like you know, the fog that I'm experiencing.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah, it's literally like a fog. Yeah.

Gillian 12:40

Yes, yeah, it brings me back to that space of clarity. So it's only through experiencing this, because if somebody's listening to this conversation and they think we're a bunch of crazy people or, you know, two crazy ladies having this conversation, I understand that if you haven't experienced it. And this is an invitation to simply be still. And if it's confusing to you and you know, you didn't grow up in faith and you haven't learned about this relationship. I believe that when you simply create that space in your life and you invite God into your heart and into your life, life to guide you, that He's not gonna leave you hanging.

unknown 13:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

And it's just you know, and sometimes somebody told me once, it's like it's actually really weird that we call it quiet time. Because, like in a word, when you read when people pray, it's not really quiet. Um, so I believe that you know, we can be quiet and listen to God and you know, really read the word, it kind of goes together. And at the same time, sometimes I cry or scream or sing, or it's just a relational moment.

Gillian 13:45

Yes, absolutely. So you're talking about singing, Jolene.

Stillness As The Way Back

Gillian 13:50

Let's let's merge into that because oh my goodness, you I mean, your voice is beautiful, just speaking in this conversation, but your singing voice is so angelic. And, you know, I it's it's a voice that I've never forgotten, the most stunning voice. You sound like an angel straight from heaven. And, you know, you clearly have a gift. And um, it's a gift that you openly shared when I knew you in my 20s, but back then you weren't interested in becoming a professional singer. It was something that you did because you loved singing. I I recall you singing around the campfire when you came camping with with some of our extended um family. And the uh the the park, um, what is it called? The park ranger came by and and told you told him you had to be quiet because it was quiet time and you were being too noisy singing around the campfire. Anyways, he must have been in a bad mood that day. But um, but then you also sang at my sister's wedding. And it was the most beautiful gift to her and to the rest of the family to listen to your beautiful voice in that church that day. But um, it's a gift to the world. And um I'd like to know back then, did you know that music was your calling and not just a talent?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Well, deep down, maybe I did. Like deep down, I've always felt like this is something so um precious God gave me. It's between me and him. Like, you know, sometimes God gives you something really, you know, like something that's really um spirit. I'm looking for the word, it's like special, it's worth so much, you know, valuable, but it felt very uh like fragile as well. So um you know, one like singing is something that is so uh connected to who you are and where you are in your developments. I remember uh when I was a teenager, I actually did like an audition on the conservatory, um and I was let in with flute, which was not my passion. Okay, but then I did like singing and I I couldn't sing, like there were these people sitting on a table, and they were so like looking at me like really straight, and I just completely blocked. I was really young, and it just felt so fragile. I was like, how can you you know share this thing that is so fragile and so pure and intimate with people that are like judging you? Yes, yeah, and then I kind of decided, okay, you know, I'm just gonna not look into it anymore. Um, but I always felt when I sing it's something really uh it brought me really close to God, and I also experienced it brought other people closer to God, you know. Um so yeah, I started singing in a gospel group when I was like 19, and those people became really good friends, and it was a really special time. I did that for 10 years, and I've learned a lot, and also I sing in like hotels and restaurants, and that was all really, really good, and it all helped me to develop in singing, but it still felt a bit like empty, like I wasn't really doing what I was made to do. Um, so at one point I felt God asking me to quit all of these things, so I did. And um, in the meantime, I met my husband and we got children and all of that beautiful stuff, so I didn't have the time to sing at all.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Um, but I did sing in church once in a while, and then at one point um we moved to a a different place, and um the children were like four and five and four, they were going to school, both of them. And I remember kind of looking into a church again around this area, and there a new church started. It was called House of Miracles, and it was so beautiful. Those people, when it was COVID, they decided actually to still continue church because they were like Jesus never stopped, you know. Right. So they had this beautiful home church where all of these beautiful stuff happened. People, you know, received healing and um just met God. And um, so I went there really curious. And there God really started to speak to me again about starting to sing again. And um, I talked to the people who were in the church, and at one point they called me and they're like, Do you want to lead worship then and then? So I did, and I was in all of this um process, I was kind of at a point where I really didn't care about what people think anymore. Because my heart is really to sing about God and for God and to really worship him. That's actually my my calling to do that, and um so I did, and at that evening was so very special. I I will never forget that evening. It was like in a theater hall, and it was like an open heaven when we

When Music Becomes A Vocation

SPEAKER_02 19:05

were worshiping him, and at that moment I realized this is what I am supposed to be doing, and then I think half a year later I experienced in my time with the Lord that he asked me to quit my job as a therapist. So I did um after talking to my husband, of course. It was like a process, and uh yeah, and then all of these things started to roll.

Gillian 19:34

Yeah, everything just connected. Yeah, yeah. So can you explain what that felt like? Like you say, you felt like God was calling you to let go of your your job as a counselor and step fully into what did that feel like? Describe that experience.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Um well, I always feel really alive when I sing. Um so it made me feel really alive. And at the same yeah, at the same time I had this like restless feeling. It started, I always loved my job as a therapist. I really enjoyed working with these children and parents, and um it was an intense job. Like I worked with um how do you say that attachment problems. So uh, but I really enjoyed it and I loved it. Um, but at the month before I really experienced God telling me this, uh I started to feel um not so very good about this job. Like I I never had that, you know, like I didn't enjoy my job. So it's almost like he was already preparing me, like this is gonna end, you know. Right. And so I felt really alive and at the same time it felt a bit strange, like there's nothing yet, really. There's nothing there yet. Um yeah, so I started this foundation, it's called His Voice Music. Um I was driving through this company where you when you start like a foundation, you have to uh go to a certain place where you officially start the foundation and you have to fill in all these papers and stuff. Okay, and I just uh rationally thought, okay, I'm just gonna call it my name Jolene uh music or something. And then I was driving there, I was like, no, that doesn't make any sense, it's really not what I should be calling it, you know. And then and then I heard it's his voice, it's like it's his voice. So, like at that moment I decided it's gonna be his voice, music. Um, yeah, and then the Lord started to give me uh songs, which I never thought I would be writing songs. Wow, and we were like writing songs, and and and also we did like a songwriter school. So now the foundation is really focused on equipping others as well and helping them to um to find their voice and to. Uh, yeah, to equip them to write their songs, and I believe everybody can write songs. Some are really cold for it, of course, but especially every worship eater, I think, should write songs that fit the moment, you know. Uh, so yeah, we're equipping people, writing songs, we uh organizing events where we tell people about Jesus and we worship him. And yeah.

Gillian 22:24

Beautiful. I love that. You know, the fact that you're writing songs that are inspired in the moment by, you know, through your faith is such a beautiful thing, especially in a day of artificial intelligence when I'm sure a lot of songwriters are going to their computers and they're getting a lot of assistance with writing their songs, but you're holding on to the true art of um, you know, songwriting and music. And that's such a beautiful thing. And I think people people know that this music comes from your heart. So when you lead this worship, what are you hoping happens in the hearts of the people who are present?

Building His Voice Music

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Well, honestly, I hope they meet Jesus. You know, like I believe worship leading is a journey. I've learned so much. I also did like a worship school two years or one year ago in Glasgow, in Scotland, at um Prophetic Alignment. And um this woman who's really an incredible worship leader and prophet, she's called Ellie McFerlane. You should really listen to her music. Uh, she writes songs for the ecclesia. And she has taught me so much that um yeah, worship leading and worshiping is like taking people on a journey. It's not just like picking your favorite songs, it's really thinking, okay, let's start with the gathering song so that everybody that comes in the church who is still maybe they had a fight in the car or whatever, you know, and they come in and they can connect to the song and they can surrender to worship and all of that. And then beforehand, you can already ask the Holy Spirit, okay, what is happening in the room today? You know, do you want to bring them to the father heart? Do you um want to testify uh about freedom that is in Christ or about healing or about and then you figure out songs that suit that journey to there, or you want to bring people more in like an encounter with the Lord? There's so many beautiful songs that you can use. And yeah, I'm I'm growing in that still, like it's it's really fun to kind of experiment that, and sometimes you feel like, oh, I really went in the wrong direction, I should have stayed there, you know?

Gillian 24:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Trial and error. Yeah, trial and error, definitely. Yes, yes. But once it's going well, okay. I have one really amazing example. It was like a month ago, and somebody else asked me to worship with her. Uh, she's a good friend, and um, it was like an uh African church. So I was like, oh, this is gonna be amazing. Yeah, and uh I was really without expectation, just going there completely surrendered, like, okay, God, I don't know. And I looked at the CELIS and I was like, This is a really strange set list. And we started to rehearse beforehand, and it really didn't work. The instruments played really awful, and it was just like, okay, what are we going to do? And then I walked off the stage, and also Sarah, my friend, was like, I don't know what this is, you know. And and then I walked on the stage and there was this lady sitting there, and she's like, Jolene. I'm like, Yes, and she's like, Yes, I am the ex-wife of somebody that I know. I'm like, Oh, really? And she smelled really like alcohol, and she was all over with tattoos, and she was actually looking really awful, and she started to cry so hard, and she told me her story that about the divorce and how it broke her down. And um, yeah, we were having such a beautiful conversation, and as Sarah joined us, she also knew her, and and she asked if we could pray for her, and she surrendered again to Jesus. She's like, I left Jesus completely after this divorce, and I was so into Jesus, and now and she kind of gave her heart again, and then she got delivered at that moment, and it was it was like the most beautiful moment. My heart was like, Okay, this evening is already, you know, it's finished for me, it's like amazing. And then Sarah, who's also really a bold leader, and she's like, Okay, Bent, we should get her. And she's like, We are gonna skip the complete set list. God just wants to move completely different today. He wants to be there for the broken. And she's like, Jolene, I trust you. If you receive something, just go for it. So we started, and then the song Reckless Love. I don't know if you know it. It's like he leaves the 99, and it's like the reckless love. I I think I know it. And I started singing that in the beginning, and I just I just felt the Holy Spirit moving so strong, and I started crying, and I was like, you know, just expressing the heart of God for these people, and um, and it this evening was just so amazing. Like, I've never experienced an evening like that. People received the joy of the Lord, some people were delivered, and it was like, wow. If you follow the spirit like that and boldly just, you know, but it's always as kind of like a curve and uh a way of letting go of what people think of you, you know.

Gillian 27:38

Before we continue, I want to offer you a quiet pause. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, mentally cluttered, or like your mind never truly rests, I'd like to invite you into a quiet reset. Fog to freedom is a simple grounding exercise designed to help you slow down, release the mental load, and reset. There's no fixing and no pressure, just a quiet pause. So clarity can return and your nervous system can settle. Many people describe feeling lighter, calmer, and more clear after just a few minutes. And it's something you can return to anytime the noise starts to build. If your soul is asking for space, you're warmly invited to begin with Talk to Freedom. You'll find a link in the show notes or at soleocoaching.com. Come exactly as you are and offer yourself the gift of space and clarity. Thank you for taking that pause. Now let's return to the conversation. It feels like a great adventure, doesn't it? Yes. You never know what's coming. Yeah. But that that's where the faith plays in. You you know that you're always going to be caught no matter what. So it's nice to be able to take that leap. Um you you talked about freedom.

Worship Leading As A Journey

Gillian 28:55

Like you have some worship songs that focus on freedom, the freedom we find in God and in Christ. Can you explain what that means? Because I feel like so many people today are enslaved. And, you know, to the busyness in life, to the devices in our hands, to scrolling social media, to, you know, food that isn't healthy, to a culture that, you know, doesn't really speak truth. And um I'd love for you to explain what you mean by the freedom that people find in their faith.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, well, in the word it says, where the spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom. And I really experienced that for myself. Um, you know, next to the natural world that we see, there's also a spiritual world, which is talked about in the Bible so many times. Like you see so many weird things happening in the Bible about angels and demons and all of that. And in the beginning, that that world for me was a bit um scary and a bit weird, and um I had some negative experiences also with um with that. Um, but I remember when I came back from Guatemala, actually, you know the whole story, but when I came back from that, um I felt the Holy Spirit because I've never I never went to a church, I just got to know Christ, and you know, I didn't really like a church, so I figured. And then the Holy Spirit told me go to a church. Devils after Guatemala. So I I did. I went in the church and I got to know many amazing people there. You've actually met some of them also, but um, and then I told my story to somebody there in the church who was in like a bird team, and she's like, hmm, Jolene, it kind of sounds like there's more freedom for you. I was like, okay, explain you know what you mean. And um then she started to explain to me about uh the spiritual world, you know, how you have how you can be um bothered by a spirit of fear or by depression or um by like a generational curse or something like that. And uh they prayed for me, and it really um what it did for me at that moment, it it almost felt like there was a new hunger for the word of God and um like a deeper peace that I felt. It's like not from this world, yeah, you know, and like after we uh got to know each other, Gillian, and after we had met, like in those years that we didn't see each other, a lot of things happened, and I've experienced that throughout also really sad things, or you know, um there can be a deep peace that we receive, a freedom in that way. You know, it's like a freedom that kind of delivers you from the things in his world. Yeah, yeah.

Gillian 32:14

Right, right. And you're able to, I find, observe things without reacting and and getting your emotions pulled into it. It's almost like you're able to stay calm and have that deep sense of peace and confidence that everything is happening for a reason, and the responsibility that we have is to stay in that space of peace, calm, faith, hope, and love.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

And uh Jesus on the cross, he like he died for us to give us our freedom, you know, to give us our healing, to give us um a relationship, to restore

A Night When The Set List Changed

SPEAKER_02 33:00

the real relationship with with him again. Um but also part of the cross is the freedom that he wants to give us. Right, you know, yes, yes. I hope I'm being underscentful.

Gillian 33:16

Oh, absolutely. Yes, it's and I think that's what people are drawn to. Um, and I think, well, I know that's why people were drawn to Jesus. He he was born into a world that was not much different than the world we live in today. And uh he taught people how to love. You know, back back then women did not have rights, children didn't have rights, little baby girls were murdered because they were girls and they didn't have as much value. The sick were on the margins, they were um pushed away and um excommunicated. And Jesus taught us how to love everybody. He taught us that everybody has value. And that love, that unwavering love is what spread Christianity across the globe. But we've kind of changed it by trying to, you know, put God into this these different denominations with these different rules and such. But when you come back to that message, the original message of the gospels, it's really beautiful. And it's and it's so simple. And it really is this um idea of maintaining that joy when things get difficult. And I think that's that's the gift we've received. That that is the freedom that that we get to hold on to, especially when things are challenging. And I think this this is the message that people need to be hearing right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yes, yes, there's a peace that is not from this world that he wants to give. Yeah.

Gillian 34:54

Absolutely. Yes. So let's talk about this idea of stillness, because I feel like we can understand this, but if we're not taking time and being intentional about creating that space to have that relationship, then it's it's a little bit more difficult. It um it's something that we need to kind of create that time for. So we live, we live in this culture that celebrates growth and platforms and visibility. What keeps you grounded, especially as this ministry grows? What keeps you grounded and able to create that space?

SPEAKER_02 35:37

I think first and most of all is just taking the those times of intimacy and those times of you know, reading and writing and um sitting at the feet of Jesus and moments of worship just personally. Um I always have to think about, you know, God is talking about oil a lot in the Bible. And it's I've heard this saying like oil comes through the crushing. And um I've be I've been um like lot the last years when I since I've started this foundation, the Lord has been really working on you know my character and just all of these processes and things that you go through. Um where he kind of makes you understand what it means to die on self. You know, it speaks about this uh seed that was put in the ground, and when it doesn't die, it cannot grow. You know what I mean?

Gillian 36:41

Yeah, like dying to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yes. And um Yeah, this is something like this concept is always like, what does he really mean? You know, but it's it for me, it's it's become becoming alive so much more these these last years, where yeah, how can I explain as well? It's like the Lord is taking you on a journey of becoming more Christ-like, I think. You know, and just observing the life of Jesus, where every time he was surrounded by a big crowd and a lot of things happened, he went to a hill to pray again. So it's what I'm trying to say is that there's always different things in life that come that are challenging, right? It's it's never like this, yeah. Especially in this time when in the world there are so many things happening, and you know, in your family and um in relationships and in ministry,

Fog To Freedom Quiet Reset

SPEAKER_02 37:38

there's so much going on. And um every time something happens, I go to the Lord, okay, Lord, is this something where I need to forgive? Is it something that um uh I find it too important what people think of me? Or is it uh something that I need to let go of? Is it something that I need to hold on to? Is like uh you know what I mean? It's like you go through a process with the Lord and sometimes you feel so crushed and sometimes it's it's really difficult. But every time I find peace again, just focusing on Jesus, putting my eyes on him and asking him, okay, what's going on here? Where is it something that I need to change? Is it something that and I experience in the process it's almost like you become more loose from the opinions of men, and um you kind of find your worth more in what he thinks of you and how he looks at you. Yeah. That's an answer to your question.

Gillian 38:42

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you can seek you can seek all of these things in other people, but you're always going to be disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah.

Gillian 38:51

And um when you realize that you have access to all of you know the comfort that you are seeking in your relationship with your creator, I feel like that's when things start to fall into place.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, and sometimes you do feel really hurt, you know, like you can be really um disappointed by something or some people and um I've learned not to go into the victim role. Yes. But um to be the first one to say, okay, you know, I don't really know how you're gonna react on this, but I'm gonna forgive you. I'm gonna and every time that's a process again, over and over again. But once you decide to go that process and not to become bitter or not to it's so beautiful because yeah, it's almost like you um it brings life, you know?

Gillian 39:52

Yeah, yeah, and there's there's always room for that healing, you're always inviting it in.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Yeah, yeah.

Gillian 39:59

And sometimes

Freedom Peace And The Spiritual Battle

Gillian 40:00

you need to realize that you're not responsible for the healing, but if you're able to open the door to it and invite it in, then you know, sometimes that's all we can do. Yeah, yeah. So on that note, I'd love to talk about your joy. You've always been so joyful. And uh, you know, we had so much fun together when you were visiting us in Canada. And I visited you in in Amsterdam, and oh my gosh, the amount of times we giggled riding bikes throughout the uh beautiful Amsterdam. And um I remember I didn't bring the most appropriate clothing and we had to go shopping for some warmer clothing that was appropriate for the cold, rainy weather. And um, I also remember when you had to work and you sent me off to Taize. Yes. You sent me directions, you put me on a train, you said, just go, it's gonna be great. And it was a beautiful retreat. But I remembered meeting meeting a boy there, and we exchanged we exchanged contact information. And uh when I came back to your apartment, we were chatting about you're showing you you encouraged me to go and meet him.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

You don't remember this? I remember that you're like I thought you actually met him there. Did you go meet him again? We yes, you yes, you encouraged me to go.

Gillian 41:18

He invited me with something that happened with like Yes. Yeah, so you you sent me on another train and you said, go go meet this guy, that'll be fun. And uh I didn't need much encouraging, I just needed to know where to go.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

But anyways, it was children's names in this way, right? I can already do that.

Gillian 41:37

Oh my goodness. I think I know I think about my daughters doing this, and I would, I would be, I would be quite upset if I knew that they were going off to to visit a strange man, but it all turned out. But I remember getting on a motorcycle, on the back of a motorcycle with this guy, and I've never driven so fast in my life, never mind, on a motorcycle. And uh yeah, it's just these these um experiences that I've had throughout my life where I feel like God was always there, always watching over me, always protecting me. And even when I didn't make the best decisions or the smartest decisions, you know, I was always I was always safe. And um it was a beautiful thing, but also that that joy that's been sprinkled into life by just allowing God to lead you and um having that intuition to know, you know, what direction to move in and such. But you've always had this joy, this very, I want to say, grounded, maybe childlike, like trusting joy. And I I would love for you to share more about it. Maybe it's the European in you compared to us Westerners here, but there's a steadiness about you. And I'm just wondering where it came from. Where does that steadiness and joy come from? Where is it rooted? Because it was there when you were in your 20s. I know I it's really difficult for me to say.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Like I I I have to say Jesus again. But I I really like yeah, for me, that's like the steady thing in my life that always gives joy. So yeah, I'm coming back to him a lot, but um yeah, I don't know. I I've always also connected with children. I like the simplicity of children, you know, I love it, honestly. How they just show their emotions is not a riddle, they're not being fake, it's just what it is. And I like the realness of that. Um yeah, I've always really liked people that are real, right? Um and I do think there's so much beauty in life. Like there is, and it's not like I'm I've always been joyful, like there's really like I I don't know if I told you this, but also when I um lost a baby and she was like I was 15 or 17 weeks in between pregnancy, and um, my waters broke, and she lived for two weeks, and we prayed for a miracle, and then she was born. And I remember it was so strange because this was like one of the saddest moments in my life. It was our first child, and like we hold her and we buried her and all of that, but at the same time, it was like the most beautiful moment of my life where I felt so relationally connected to my friends and my family and my husband, and I felt so loved and so close to God. Um, and I also felt like God took away the hurt, like the real deep pain He took away in in like a month or so. And after that, I never felt like a really deep pain again. I cried sometimes, but so I think there's also beauty in those moments of grief. Um and I I I do see it as a as a gift that you always look at the joy of life, you know what I mean? It's it's um yeah, maybe it's also my family, like I thank my parents or um yeah, they all my like my mom, she always put flowers everywhere and she was always looking at the details of the beauty outside. She's like, Oh, look at that, this it starts to grow again, it's spring, and she was really aware of the beauty of these things. Yeah, so yeah.

Gillian 45:34

She planted those seeds, your parents planted those seeds for you. Yeah. Joy when you were a child. That's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah. Yeah. So I I I yeah, it's definitely not my own work or something.

Gillian 45:48

Well, yeah, it's a I I love that you share that, and and I'm so sorry to hear that. I do I do recall you experiencing that, and I can only imagine how difficult that was. But when you're shifting your focus to how, you know, trauma like that opens the door for people to be able to love you. It creates an opportunity for love. And I remember um feeling this way when Opa Hendricks, my mom's dad, was passing away, and um, he was just in so much pain and life was so difficult for him. And uh you get to the point where you're just praying that God takes him. But what I witnessed when I was by his side, just with the people who came to visit him, that there were so many opportunities during that time for people to love, for people to love him, and not only that, for people to sit by his side and reflect on their own life because of what they were witnessing in front of them, watching the end of a life. Yeah. And um, when we look at life this way, as you know, what what what are you trying to teach me here? What am I supposed to be aware of? What can I learn? How can I learn to love in this moment? Then it really does shift everything.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Yeah, it's like almost everything that doesn't really matter falls away, and everything that does matter is there in that moment. Like the the real essence of who we are or what or what's important is love, actually.

Gillian 47:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And uh it changes everything, and something that I've been thinking about lately, just with everything that's surfaced right now in the media, and yeah, it's um it's fear-inducing. And the way I try to look at it as okay, I have this opportunity to receive that, and I can choose to fear or I can transmute it into love and change that fear, not allow myself to now project fear, but instead project love and step into that space of faith, hope, and love, knowing that there is a bright future ahead and that there is hope all around us and that there's there's abundance around us. We just have to choose to see it that way. So I think that that's one thing that we can do to feel empowered right now when we feel like everything's being imposed on us and that fear is being imposed on us. We can choose how we respond to that.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Yes, yeah, and it's it is um it's scary, like it's it's really there's a lot of things going on, but it's like it's not like it's not in the word, you know. It's it's there will be wars and love will be uh less and all of these things. And my prayer is that we uh can really be the light in the darkness, and that we can really like we can really be that. And I think there again, it's so important to live close to Jesus and to focus on him and to have like the eternal perspective on life, yeah. Where this is also a temporary place

Groundedness Through Intimacy And Forgiveness

SPEAKER_02 49:10

where we are, and yeah, and his kingdom is like it's unshakable, it's it's something that spreads through hearts. Like if all the kingdoms and all the worldly kingdoms shake, this will never it will go through our children, it will it cannot be taken away, you know.

Gillian 49:29

Yeah, it will grow. That's beautiful. Can you expand on that a little bit? Because I feel like that's such a beautiful message right now.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Yeah, well I think the kingdom of God doesn't have any borders. And like in the natural, we have borders on our countries, but the kingdom of God is is not for a certain country or it's not for a certain nation, you know. It's um it's a kingdom based on love, and it spreads through hearts, it spreads to changed hearts. And I think if you want to change a nation, then more hearts should know Christ, you know, more hearts should be changed because then his kingdom can spread. And um, even though yeah, we can focus on all of the different nations shaking and all of the powers that are trying to take more power and more land and more uh all of these things, but I believe the kingdom of God is growing really. Um how these like it's it's expanding so much in these times, you know, because people are so open to a different perspective, and there's we see like revival in the South of America, there's so many people coming to Christ, and yeah, it's sad that sometimes it's needed under pressure because um when we have everything that we need, we don't need God, you know. Yeah, um, so this is also a time that I see as a chance for the kingdom of God to grow. And um now we can actually really be the church, you know. We can really I'm excited about that. At the same time, it's also scary what's happening around me. Like I'm I have children, you know. But um I do believe that it's a chance to really mean something for our neighbors and mean something for our family and the people that are on our path.

Gillian 51:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one thing that brings me comfort is um that quote, you were born for such a time as this.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Yes, you were born for such a time as this. Do you know the song? It's such a good song. I don't know the song, but I would love for you to sing.

Gillian 51:49

I would love for you to we would you sing for us today, Jolene? Um, okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Yeah, I have to think of a song though.

Gillian 51:59

Whatever comes to your heart.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Um okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Um, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God. Oh, it chases me down, fights till I'm found, leaves the 99. I don't deserve it, I couldn't earn it. Still you gave your life away. Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God. Oh, I don't know the rest of the song.

Gillian 52:46

Oh my goodness, I have goosebumps. I love your voice, Jolene. You were such a gift, and God is clearly working for you. And um, I just love your presence.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Well, there's something more that I need to say to you.

unknown 53:04

Oh good.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

You have been such a blessing in my life, Jillian, honestly. And your family, like you asked the question about joy, and then when we already finished the subject, I was thinking, I forgot to mention how important your family has been in that in that thing as well. Like, I really found joy when I found your family. You have a family that's so beautiful, and it's been really a gift in my life. And I'm forever thankful for that. So that's something I want to share with you.

Gillian 53:35

Oh my goodness. Thank you for thank you for saying that. I really appreciate that. And I know that we are we are richly blessed, and that people cross our paths for a reason. And I know that our paths cross for a very important reason. And I look forward to seeing how your life evolves, and I look forward to meeting your little babies one day. And um, Jolene actually she named one of well, her daughter Jillian with a G.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Yes, I did. And I think, you know, it was very original, but then you said the G was actually more original. Yes, yes.

Gillian 54:11

So I I so look forward to meeting Otto and your two beautiful children one day.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

And uh yeah, thank you so much. To meet your husband and your children, you know.

Gillian 54:23

Oh, yes, yes, we would love to come to Holland to the Netherlands and show them around to the motherland. Yes, let me know when you're coming.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Very welcome to the motherland, yes.

Gillian 54:35

To the motherland, that would be wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Jolene. And thank you for your your family giving you this space on a what is it? Is it Tuesday evening there? It is, right? Tuesday evening, yes. Yes, eight o'clock here. Wonderful. So thank them for me. And I really appreciate you coming on and just sharing your heart. And um pleasure. Yes, I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Same here. It was a pleasure. So thank you so much, Julian.

Gillian 55:04

You're

Reckless Love Live And Closing Blessing

Gillian 55:05

very welcome. There's something about Jolene's life that feels like an invitation. Listening to her reminds me that joy doesn't have to be loud. And calling doesn't have to be this performance. Faithfulness doesn't have to be seen. It just has to be real for you. I think so many of us feel pressure to expand, to do more, and to always reach further. And yet, if the invitation is actually to go deeper, what does that look like to stay close and to stay guarded to what matters most? If you've been feeling stretched or distracted or pulled in too many directions, I hope this conversation brought you back to center. And as you sit with the song you heard, let it quiet something in you and maybe respond to that invitation to be still. Let it remind you that intimacy with God is never wasted time. I hope you enjoyed the conversation today. And as always, I invite you to be still and live. Thank you for listening to Be Still and Live. As always, my hope is that this conversation offered you a little more space. Space to breathe, to listen, and to come home to what matters most. If this episode resonated with you, I invite you to subscribe to the show and consider sharing it with someone who could use a little more space for clarity right now. That simple act helps this work reach the people who need it most. If you're ready for a gentle next step, you can begin with Fog to Freedom in the show notes or at Saleocoaching.com. Until next time, be still and live.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

This podcast is produced, mixed, and edited by Cardinal Studio. For more information about how to start your own podcast, please visit www.cardinalstudio.co or email Mike at mike at cardinalstudio.co. You can also find the details in the show notes.