When Trust Breaks: Learning How to Trust Again (Part 2)

If you’ve been hurt in your marriage, anger can feel justified—but staying there will quietly destroy your heart, your peace, and your future. In this episode, we break down why forgiveness is not about letting them off the hook, but about setting yourself free from the weight of betrayal. 

We walk through how to process anger the right way, why forgiveness and trust are not the same, and what it actually looks like to move forward without losing yourself. 

If you’re feeling stuck in the pain, this conversation will show you the path to real freedom.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You ready? Yep. Let's go. Let's do that. All right. Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage Ignite podcast with Mike and Janelle Friedrich. We're honored that you're here. And if you could do us a huge favor, hit that like and subscribe button. And if this episode speaks to you or you feel like this would speak to someone that you know and that needs to hear this, please do that. We love your feedback. We'd love your comments. And so thank you for joining us. So let's jump in. We're going to get into part two of rebuilding trust in a marriage and really learning how to trust again. So we're going to get part two. And Janelle, why don't you go ahead and kick it off?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Yes. So we are in the middle of a series right now on learning how to rebuild trust. Now, in the last episode, we focused on the first step, which was healing from what happened. Healing from what happened. It's you making a decision. I'm going to get healing, whether my spouse, whether the person who hurt you is going to get healing. You're making a decision that you're going to get healing. Hopefully you're getting healing together, but that doesn't always happen. And so if you didn't listen to that last episode, you'll want to go back and listen to that because this episode really builds on that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

All right. So here's what I want to share in the beginning because for some of you, whether you're a wife or a husband watching this, you're maybe in one of two places. Number one, maybe you're dealing with a betrayal and you're trying to figure out okay, do I even want to go through this process of staying together? And it's real. And we get it. Now that process, you're going to have to work that through the Lord. And we really, really encourage you to get help, whether it's from us or someone, don't do this alone. Now, if you've made that decision that yes, we're going to fight for our marriage, and I want to figure out how to how do I do this? I mean, I've been betrayed, you're angry, you're hurt, you're confused, all of it. There's that natural concern, confusion of, okay, well, how do I actually do this? How do I learn how to trust again? And is this even possible? Because when trust has been broken, whether through betrayal, lies, addiction, infidelity, secrecy, disappointment, it can take years. And there's a process for healing. And that process is not instant, it's not clean, it's not neat. And that's certainly something that you can't microwave.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Well, and babe, I want to mention here that there might be the two of you listening to this wanting healing, wanting to rebuild that trust, and you want to make sure that you do it the right way. And then there might be where you're a wife or you're a husband listening to this and your spouse isn't on board yet. And you're thinking, can trust even be built? Like, can this happen? And yes, it can happen because we've seen it over and over and over again, where the wife will hop on board first, and then the husband will hop on board. And the wife will do the work on softening her heart and working through all the stages of rebuilding back trust or all the stages of healing herself. And then the husband sees such a change in her and seeing that wow, we can have a new marriage. And he ends up hopping on board. And so we've seen so many stories. I mean, we have endless amounts of stories of marriages that have been saved. And we have actually seen the worst of the worst. Like we have seen things that, you know, you're like, wow, help, Lord, really. And he does. The moment that you step in and you say and you surrender and you say, I need your help, God, he will step in and he will help you. And we have seen the worst of relationships completely repaired and rebuilt and rebuilt on him, not rebuilt on sand and rebuilt on the old marriage. No, you don't want the old marriage. You want a new resurrected marriage. You don't want to go back to the old ways. Like I didn't want to go back to the old Janelle. He didn't want to go back to the old Mike. Like we wanted a new marriage, a new resurrected marriage, founded on him. And I was going to be in my prayer closet and war and pray until that was going to come to pass that we were going to build our marriage on Christ and for the rest of our lives until we are in heaven. It is going to be built on him and only him. And I wasn't going to waver. I wasn't going to, that's why I have the unwavering wife course. I wasn't going to waver. I'm like, I know that I know that. I know that I know that my God is big enough than this mountain. My God is big enough, bigger than this addiction. My God is bigger than this infidelity. My God is bigger than this betrayal. My God can fix anything. And I believe that wholeheartedly with my heart. It doesn't mean that I didn't have bad days and then I don't have days where I got weary because I did. But it's important that if you want this, then it's you can go for it and you can have it and you can have trust rebuilt back in the marriage.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Okay, come on. That's the episode right there. We're done. That's that's a wrap. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Okay, so okay, so real quick, we're gonna talk about the second part of learning how to trust again. And today we're gonna talk about moving. This is so good. Moving beyond anger, moving beyond revenge, and turning towards forgiveness. Now, it might be anger, it might be resentment, it might be bitterness, annoyance, frustration. I mean, there's all these words, right? And you may not feel like, oh, I don't really have revenge, but whatever, whatever you have, bitterness, okay, we want to move beyond that. And I want to say this right up front. Forgiveness is one of the hardest things God will ever ask you to do after betrayal, especially when the pain is real, especially when the person who hurt you does not fully understand that the damage that they caused, especially when your heart still feels raw. So if that is where you are at today, we want you to know this episode is for you. It is for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Well, and I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make after betrayal is thinking that the forgiveness part, it's just a small side issue. Like I'll deal with the forgiveness later. Just give me the just give me the stuff to do first. And the reality is it's not, it's massive. And because if you don't deal with anger properly, it's gonna begin to deal with you.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Ooh, that's so good. Say that again.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

If you don't deal with the anger properly, it's gonna deal with you one way or the other. Wow. If you don't deal with the bitterness properly, it begins to shape the way you think, it begins to shape the way you feel, the way you respond, and even the way that you see yourself. Let's be real.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Wow. Well, and listen, for many of you wives, this is exactly where you're at. I know you're wounded, you were lied to, you're disappointed, there was betrayal, and now part of you wants healing, but another part of you wants justice. Uh, part of you wants peace, but another part of you wants them to feel what you felt. Right. Part of you wants freedom, but another part of you is still holding the sword. Right. And we understand that. We really do. Because when someone hurts you deeply, anger actually feels really powerful. It feels like protection, it feels like control. It feels like, well, gosh, if I stay angry, then no one can hurt me again.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

So anger becomes a self-protection.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

And you know what? Anger is a just what a secondary emotion of fear.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

And so we have to deal with the fear. We have to deal with that anger because anger was never meant, listen, this is so good. Anger was never meant to be your permanent home. It will literally destroy you. Anger, anger, bitterness, all of that. Some of you are even, and I'm hearing this right now from the Lord, that some of you are even having major health issues because you're holding in that bitterness, you're holding in that anger, you're holding in that unforgiveness. And forgiveness is the way you free yourself from betrayal. I know. I know you sometimes you don't want to hear that, but you stay tied to it and trapped in it for the rest of your life. Forgiveness is key. That is what so many people do. They stay emotionally tied to the very thing that they hate. They stay spiritually tied to the very wound that broke them. They stay mentally tied to the offense because they never learned how to release it. And forgiveness is certainly it's a gift. It's a gift you give to the person who hurt you. I know that's really hard. It's a gift, but also it's a gift for you, and it's what we are required to do. It is a command, like we are required to forgive. But it's, I mean, again, it's a gift you give yourself. Because when you hold on to that unforgiveness and that anger and that hatred and that bitterness, it will affect you. Literally, it's let me say it this way because to hold on to an injury and you keep nursing it. Okay, so you keep nursing anger, you keep nursing bitterness, it will begin to allow cancer to grow in your heart, your mind, your soul. And that kind of unforgiveness will destroy you physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally if you stay there long enough.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Well, it becomes your you almost becomes your identity.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Oh, for sure. Your pain, your betrayal will become your identity. And you'll actually believe it's who you are.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Wow. Okay. Well, yeah, so I'm gonna get a little personal here because I remember when we walked through the healing part of infidelity in our marriage. And, you know, when I disclosed to you you you walked through that. I don't know that you had an I I don't remember at least seeing an angry part of you, and there was hurt for sure, but you said something to me that I'll never forget when I shared with you what happened years ago. You said to me, You said, I'm sorry that you had to hold that in for 14 years.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

It was literally killing you, it was causing major health issues.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

And I knew in that moment you had forgiven me without saying you're forgiven because of what you said. And and fortunately, we had done a lot of work prior to this, but we have seen it with a lot of our clients that that anger becomes so visceral. And although it's justified, your anger is I mean, it no one's gonna say you shouldn't be angry because it may be it, it is probably very justified, but you can't stay there. And I think what you share, babe, is so good, really good. And I and I want to say something to the husbands listening to. This applies to you as well. Maybe your wife is the one that hurt you deeply. Maybe it was emotional betrayal, maybe it was disrespect. I see a lot, I work with a lot of guys who they feel uh completely betrayed because they've just they've never felt honored in their own marriage. And maybe it was years of pain that you never had words for. Most of us guys growing up, we were never taught how to process these emotions. And whatever it is, unforgiveness does not care whether you're the husband or the wife. If you hold on to it long enough, it will poison you. And sometimes people think that unforgiveness is the thing that's giving them the fuel to keep going. But it's not, let me say that again. We think that holding on to that unforgiveness is the fuel that's going to keep us going. And so we wear it as a badge of honor, and it's a weird way of thinking of it, but it's but we work with a lot of wives, because normally in in the dynamic where we're working with a wife that's been betrayed, we work with a lot of angry wives, and it's understandable. But you can't because if an angry wife stays an angry wife, there there is no healing. You can't move to second base.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Well, when I was talking to one of the our clients uh a couple days ago, I have two stories, a couple of stories I want to share, but I was talking to a client and I said, Okay, so here's here you are. There's been infidelity, there's been betrayal from your husband. Now your husband is kind of gone downhill, he's spiraling out of control. Here you are angry, resentful, bitterness, upset. You have every right to be, right? And then you, I mean, obviously you both participated to into the marriage on where you're at. And I said, both of you can't keep spiraling. This is so good, ladies, if you're listening and gentlemen, like both of you can't keep spiraling because of the kids' sake, because of your destiny, your calling. One of you has to make the decision to get out. One of you, meaning get out of the anger, the bitterness, the control, whatever, like all of the dysfunction, not necessarily the marriage, but the dysfunction. And one of you's got to take the first step. It's not often that both of you take this step. It is, I mean, uh, let me let me back up. It is often we do have a lot of clients that come in together, but usually it's the wife that's like, we need counseling or we need help, or you know what I mean? And it's the wife that often will come and want help first. Now we're praying that that changes. We're praying for the couples to wake up and the men to wake up and the women to wake up and for both of them to want healing and to understand the destruction that they're causing the family and for the generations to come. But as I was saying this to the wife, I mean, it was like the light bulb went on. I said, both of you can't keep spiraling and your anger and bitterness, now you're taking it out on the kids. Now everything you do is filtered through that anger. And so that anger needs to be dealt with. And it's serious, unforgiveness is not worth the damage that it does. It can turn you into a bitter person, a vengeful person. It can turn you into someone who always is guarded. Maybe you're sharp and you respond with a with with a horrible tone, you're suspicious, you're always ready to strike. And that is not who God made you to be. Unforgiveness causes you to lose parts of your soul and parts of your life to the other person who portrayed you.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Wow. Okay, say it again.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

There's so much here about unforgiveness and anger and everything. Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay, so unforgiveness causes you to lose parts of your soul and parts of your life to the other person who betrayed you. And you know what you're doing? You're actually giving your soul. I mean, literally, the the devil is just taking, taking your soul, I mean, taking over. You are literally participating with, because that's what the devil is. If the devil's anger, he's just he deceives, he accuses, he's bitter, and he hates everything that God created, and God created you.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

And like and we said again, for those of you that like are maybe wondering, well, you're saying I don't have a right to be angry? No. No, you do. You do, you do. You just can't say that.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

You can't. And you've got to learn how to process it. You have to learn how to work through it. And because listen, little drops of anger over time will build up and you will explode in rage. You'll do things that you've never thought you would ever do. You'll say things that you never thought you'd say, and you don't want to stay there. And so that leads me to the other story that I was gonna say about another client where they have four kids, they're not living together right now, and it is mayhem when the kids go back and forth. It just is. It's a lot, and it's a lot of unwinding that she's having to do and help rewire their little brains. And it is really hard on the kids. So yesterday I walked her through some activations. Yesterday I walked her through some activations that really helped her release her husband to the Lord, not release necessarily the marriage, but release her husband because there was the control, the worry, the overwhelm, the anger, the bitterness, all of that. Releasing her children to the Lord because her children are not hers. Her children are the Lord's, and and trusting that they're gonna be taken care of and they're gonna be okay. And I mean, I mean, she's just roaring for her kids. And so we did this incredible activation and really helped guide her on how to navigate conversations with him and how to be around him and how to, and so you need help. Like if you are in this place of massive unforgiveness and you are still at this place, well, what they did to me, they they owe me, they need to feel how I feel. You are gonna stay stuck. And right now, this is about you because they'll be they'll be you'll have things in your mind, or you'll have thoughts of they they owe me years. They they owe me peace, they owe me safety, they owe me love, they owe me trust, they owe me innocence that I used to have, or they've they've stolen years of stuff from us and our family and our kids, and you want payback. And and I get it, I really do. We're really talking about that you need someone to help walk alongside you, to help get rid of the anger, to help work through the forgiveness, to really learn how to process it and work through it and heal from it. And there may be grieving that needs to take place too. There may be levels of grieving of the marriage, meaning grieving of you can't even believe you're here. You can't believe this is happening. And you might have to walk through a little bit of that to really grow and really get onto the other side and there to be transformation in the marriage.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Well, and I and I believe like a lot of the wives in the scenario that you're talking about is that they're expecting they want to be paid back by their husband. But that thinking is gonna stay is keep you stuck because ultimately the reality is they can't. They don't have the capacity to do that in a lot of cases. And so this is where a lot of people will stay trapped for years because they're waiting on the other person to repay a debt that only God can heal. Let me say that again. You're expecting them to repay a debt that only God can heal. Now, your spouse can help that through that process, but ultimately they cannot heal you. Only God can do that. And until that debt is released, they cannot move forward. You cannot move forward. Let me say it that way. There's an old saying that says, when you remain angry, you are just a character in someone else's story. But when you let go and you forgive, you're free to write your own story. Wow, that is so powerful. Because forgiveness does not erase what happened, but it does stop the offense from continuing to control your future. And your kids' future. Well, for sure. There's always going to be collateral damage if you don't deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and let me share this about forgiveness. Forgiveness is not weakness. Forgiveness isn't pretending. It's not denial. It's not saying what happened was okay. Forgiveness is not saying what they did did not matter. Forgiveness is not saying there should be no consequences. Forgiveness is not saying trust should automatically be restored. Now, listen, this one's a good one. Forgiveness is not even reconciliation. Forgiveness is just the first and foremost about like it's about releasing your right to stay in that angry position forever. It's like putting down the sword so that you can finally see what is possible for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Oh, wow. Okay. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Because as long as the sword is in your hand, you are still prepared for war. Now hear me, you want to have the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. You want to have the sword in your hand. But often we'll want to use the sword as a negative, as a war to want to fight. And I'm going to fight back and I'm going to get revenge and I'm going to stay here and I'm going to show them. And they need to, you know, they uh you're all of this stuff. Do you hear what I'm saying? Because, like, so listen, because you need to have the sword. If you put on the armor of God, you need to have the sword. But we could actually use the sword as a war, as a, as a negative, instead of it being a positive, because we are in a war and you need to have your armor of God on. And so we are in award. But some of you have been at war in your heart. Listen, you've been at war in your heart for a very long time. You keep rehearsing the pain. You keep replaying the portrayal, or you keep rebuilding the case, strengthening the argument. And the whole time your soul is literally exhausted. And so you're fighting the wrong war. You're fighting the wrong war. And forgiveness, remember, the first step that we talked about on the last episode was you've got to go, okay, I need to heal. I need healing. I need help. I want, I want, I gotta, I gotta get through this. And now it is actually going after that anger and bitterness and working through forgiveness. Now let me say this: forgiveness can take time. And you might have to forgive over and over and over and over again. And then something else happens and you have to forgive again. And then you get triggered by something and you have to get forgive again. And so you there might have to, there might be a lot of forgiving.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Again, forgiveness is not, it's not reconciliation. There's a whole separate training on what, how do you actually reconcile? That's a whole separate thing that we're talking about there. We're talking about your heart right now. And we hear this a lot too. And maybe people don't necessarily say this, but they're thinking it. If I forgive, then I lose. And it's not true because forgiveness absolutely is not losing. It's about refusing to let the offense keep taking from you. It's saying, what happened to me deeply hurt. Okay. I will not deny, but I also refuse to let it define the rest of my life. That's strength, it's maturity, and that's actually freedom. That's true freedom. Now, there's something also that's really important about this, and you gotta be honest. You have to be honest about what you're feeling. You can't keep stuffing the feelings and pretend I'm just gonna power through this because that's not that's not what we're talking about either.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Ooh, that's so good. Or let's just shove it under the rug. Let's just forget about it.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

If we if we could do that. Time will heal. And I understand. Time itself doesn't heal. Only Jesus can heal.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

But if you're doing it with Jesus over time, you can heal a lot faster. You can heal. Like it's it's amazing what God can do.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah. But well, I guess what I'm saying is you cannot people think I'm not going to do the healing work.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

I'm not going to do the work. And time will just time will just make it go away. Uh uh-uh.

unknown 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

If you don't do it, well, we're not taught this stuff. That's the reality. We're just no one teaches this stuff except us.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Because that those wounds, that betrayal, that unforgiveness stays in the cells of our body. If we don't deal with it and heal and walk through the proper healing, it stays in that trauma, that portrayal. This is proven science that it stays in our body. It stays in our soul. It fractures our soul and causes our soul to be fractured. And so if we don't deal with that, it will come up a year later, five years later, 10 years later.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah. So we're talking about being honest because you can't forgive well if you're dishonest about the wound. And you have to be honest about what happened. You got to be honest about the pain. You got to be honest about the angry or about the anger. And yes, sometimes even honest about your blame because they are guilty. The other person that hurt you, they offended you. They're guilty. They did something harmful and painful. And if you try to skip over that truth, you're not really forgiving. You are just suppressing. Now, there's a couple that we were working with, and they're rebuilding trust. He committed infidelity, and the wife is understandably angry, and she's having a really, really hard time with this part of the process because she doesn't feel that he gets the pain that he put her through or that she's experiencing. And so this anger keeps coming out and keeps coming out. And so we're not saying suppress the anger. What we're saying is there's a proper way to express that anger. That's a re it's a really important distinction. I want to make sure that we get that now.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Well, real quick, I want to talk about her real quick because she's done a really good job of not holding it in and actually talking through it with us and actually working through it with her husband. And he has been done a really good job at giving space and patience and all these things because we definitely don't want you to suppress it.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah. And they're they're a couple that they both want to work on it. He's remorseful, he's repentant, and he's learning the things that she needs to be able to learn how to trust him again. And I mean, it's hard for him because he doesn't want to keep re-experiencing the shame that he's gone through. But and I, as I'm working with him and coaching him on this, I'm like, buddy, you've got to understand that you've got there's no way around this. You got to confront this head on because the more that you let her express herself, the more that she's gonna be able to get through this. But the more that you try to suppress that anger and that frustration she's having, the more it's not gonna go away. That wound is not gonna heal unless you let her get it out. And it this, like we said in the beginning, this is not, there's no formula for this. Every person's different. This is not a clean process. I mean, there are steps that are good that you're gonna need to go through, but it's not okay, you do step one, then there's step two, then there's step three. It's like, no, you gotta do all the steps all at once, sometimes backwards. You just you gotta do them all. All right.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Well, it goes back to God is not a formulaic. Now there are methods, there are steps, um, there are things that can really, but when you let God in, it looks different for every single couple, every single person. And so then again, there's lots of tools out there and lots of things that you can do. But when people go, I need to know how to heal, I need, and it's like, okay, wait, and they can watch videos and they can read books and all that stuff, but often you need guidance. You need someone who can walk alongside you, someone who can be there for you, someone can that can really help you process, process your pain with God, process your pain with us, or whoever's helping you, and really get help, really get help. It's so important. You cannot deny what someone has done and expect to forgive them well. The anger has to be expressed and worked through. It has to be bled off, um, not dumped in sinful ways, not thrown around in destruction, not used to punish the other person forever, but it does have to come out. You've got to bring it before God. You've got to process it. You need to journal it. You need to talk it out with a safe coach. You need to cry it out, you need to grieve it. You need to say, Lord, I am so angry about this. I'm so angry what they did to me. That is not bad. That is honest. And honesty is part of healing. And you can still be honest and honorable at the same time with the person that really betrayed you.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Okay. So the pain has purpose.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

But it should not have a permanent place in your heart.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

This topic's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

So it has purpose, but it can't remain there. I know we've said that a few different ways. But anger tells you that something matters. And, you know, we talk about a righteous anger. So again, we can't stuff the anger. It's telling you that a boundary was crossed. Okay. Duh. Anger tells you that something unjust happened. Anger tells you that there was real loss. But after anger, okay, but after anger alerts you to the wound, it cannot be allowed to sit on the throne of your heart.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

But you can't keep anger there. You can't keep that conflict inside. There's so much on anger and bitterness, and uh, there's so much here.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Because bitterness, you guys, it's always gonna overplay its hand. And you're gonna be, you're gonna be the now you're gonna be the victim of that.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

So you're gonna be the victim twice, basically.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Well, and we talked about a little bit before you said something really key. You said the anger, the bitterness can become your identity.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

And if it becomes your identity, you stop being tender, you stop being open, you stop being softened before the Lord, uh, you don't receive love well, you stop hoping, you start, you stop trusting other people. And you have to work through the anger. You have to be able to work through it. And and then, and it might be multiple times. It might be like six months later, you've got to work through something again. And again, this is where there isn't a cookie-cutter perfect formula for this, but we don't want to sit on the anger.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Well, and it kind of goes with, okay, well, how do I do that? And that's you were talking about that a minute ago. You've got to be able to process it with God, but also trust the people in your life. And this is really key. This is just something I'm the Lord has given me that I feel like it really needs to be important is when you're working through this betrayal process, you got to circle the wagons. Meaning the people that are in your life that you're talking to, they better be for you in your marriage if you're deciding that you're gonna want to save the marriage. You gotta be really careful about who you're talking to. That's so good. Like in-laws, parents, siblings, even your kids. Okay. And if you've got older kids, I'm not saying you gotta lie, but you you gotta be really, really, really careful about the details that you're sharing with people unless they are part of your inner circle.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

And the people who are for you.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

People who are for you for the marriage, for you getting healing, for you getting free.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Right. And we're we're working, and the reason I'm saying this is because we were there's a couple working with, and it wasn't infidelity that they're working through. They're working through some other stuff, but the they the the wife shared stuff with the kids, and now the kids are like, they don't see dad the same. It's just and so, but they're not the kids aren't there for all of the healing that they're going through. And so it and now they've got to clean that part up. And so it's just it creates a really, really messy process. So my point is be really careful about who you're sharing this process with.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

And if you have shared with people, stop doing it.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Stop doing it. If they're like, How are you doing? Go, you know what? We're still working through things. I'm still working through my stuff. I would love your prayers, prayers for wisdom, prayers for God's presence, prayers for restoration, redemption, reconciliation, like ask for prayer. Quit talking. Now, I want to say this because it's just popped in my spirit, because you'll be in your prayer closet over here praying for your marriage, praying for your husband, praying for your wife, and you're praying, and then you're over here gossiping to your family or to a friend or to someone who isn't for you or someone who may be not a good person to be speaking to, and you're destroying the exact prayers that you just prayed.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

You don't want your prayers to be hindered.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yes. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

All right. Now we're getting close to the end, but I want to make one more final distinction on trust and forgiveness. Again, they're not the same. And this is this is really critical. Trust and forgiveness are not the same. Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you're gonna trust them. So I want you to please hear that. Forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. Forgiveness is free. The trust is earned. When you forgave me, I got that for free. But now what I did have to pay for and what I did have to start doing is I needed to I needed to start earning your trust. And that meant living my life openly, being being above reproach in every area of my life, telling you where I was gonna be, making sure you could find me, leaving my phone out on the counter, you know, so it's not locked, leaving my computer. I mean, we we all share it, we we know each other's passwords. She can get into anything she wants. Anyway, but there is never an element of I'm gonna try to be sneaky. Okay. Sneakiness has no place in marriage. You can't. There's no way.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

No secrets.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

And forgiveness is something that you grant for your own freedom. Trust is something the other person must rebuild through their fruit.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Oh, that is so good. And so this is where a lot of people get confused. They think that if they forgive, then they're supposed to go right back to full trust. No, forgiveness is free, like Mike said, because it is something you do before God for your own healing. You do it so that you can move beyond the pain of what they did to you. Trust, on the other hand, is not free. It is earned, it must be deserved. But you do not owe someone trust simply because they said sorry. You do not owe someone trust simply because they are emotional now. You don't owe someone trust simply because they are tired of the consequences. Trust should only be given where there is evidence that it has been earned. Trust is a whole nother thing of rebuilding forgiveness. You this is in your own heart.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yeah. Well, and that's that's again, that's another whole training, and that's part of what we walk with our clients through is how do you actually build that trust back? And there's a process for that too. That's a whole separate process. But this is I hope this is really helpful. I know this is for a lot of you.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

I know we're hammering forgiveness and hammering anger and all that stuff, but it's so important.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah, and this is why when you're in this process of rebuilding a marriage, you can have a a spouse who has truly forgiven you or been forgiven, but the trust is still low. And that's and that's normal. There's not something defective with you where, okay, God, I've I've forgiven him. Why can't I trust him? And and sometimes there's that feeling of like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I trust him? Because I've forgiven him. God, you're supposed to help me trust him again. Well, no, that you your spouse has to earn that back. All right. And that does not mean forgiveness, this is really important. This does not mean that the forgiveness process that you're walking through has failed. It just means that the trust building process is still unfolding. Because trust is earned through consistency, through truthfulness, humility, accountability, like we said, and change over time.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Small little drops of consistency.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

It's earned earned in drops, loss and buggers.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Wow. Wow. So let's uh we want to let's talk about a couple a couple more things because this is so good. Forgiveness cleans out the past. So if you can think about if you hold on to unforgiveness, you can't see clearly. You cannot see the future. You can't. So when we forgive, it clears the fog out of the way so that you can see the future. It gets the poison out of your heart so that you can hear God clearly again. I talk to women all of the time that hold this unforgiveness, this poison in their hearts, and then they're they can't hear God. Well, if there's anger, if there's unforgiveness, you're not gonna hear God. You're gonna feel confused all the time. You're gonna feel like it's swarming, right? In your in your brain, like you're and you're being tormented. And so you really want to make sure that you uh forgive so that your soul can begin to settle. You can begin to pray, you can listen better to God, you can ask God questions like what do you want me to know? What do you want me to do? Okay, you really want to make sure that you are forgiving because then you can begin to see and to hear and to think more clearly.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah, and this is a big point because forgiveness is not the end of discernment. It's actually what helps restore discernment. Because if you are full of rage, revenge, bitterness, you're gonna be tempted to make decisions from pain. When forgiveness begins to happen, when it begins to happen, you become much more able to make decisions from wisdom versus emotion. So it takes one to forgive. This is we're kind of summarizing everything here. Takes one to forgive, two to reconcile. That's a really key line that I want you to hear that. Say one to forgive, two to reconcile. And that means you can forgive even if the other person is not ready. You can forgive even if they are still immature, or that they haven't taken responsibility, or they actually aren't, they don't see the pain that you're in.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

And you can still forgive, and this is I'm not saying that any of this is easy, but you can forgive even if they've never fully become who you want them to be. Why? Because forgiveness is between you and God first.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Oh, that is so good.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Between you and God first, not your spouse.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

And we think that it's like if we hold on to this unforgiveness, then man, if I hold on to this long enough, he's gonna get it. Yeah, he's gonna understand it. He's gonna feel it. And it's like actually does the opposite. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about this. Let's talk about uh real quick. Let's talk about reconciliation, okay? Because reconciliation is different, and some of you are probably thinking, well, what's it take for reconciliation? And reconciliation requires repentance, it requires honesty, humility, ownership, it requires changed behavior, safety being rebuilt. It requires both people participating. So if you are listening to this today and you were trying to figure out why your heart still feels cautious, that might be why. Maybe you have forgiven, reconciliation hasn't fully happened yet because the other person hasn't done their part. And that does not mean you are doing it wrong. Listen, it just means that reconciliation is a two-person process. And so I I would continue your healing journey, continue working on you, continue being in prayer, intercession over your spouse. They will want to come to repentance and come to reconciliation. Now, let me say this really quick. I want to speak to the person, to the spouse who was hurt. Okay. And maybe your heart was completely shattered. Maybe you're angry, you're exhausted, you're numb. Maybe parts of you want to forgive, but another part of you does not want to let go because it feels unfair. And I understand that. But I want to lovingly, lovingly tell you this. Unforgiveness will not protect you. It will imprison you. And God has more for you than living emotionally chained to what someone did to you. Forgiveness does not let them off the hook with God. What it does is it releases the hook from you and gives the hook to Jesus. Forgiveness lets you off the hook of carrying poison. And some of you have been carrying poison for a long time. And the Lord today, right now, the Lord wants to heal that. The Lord wants you to forgive. The Lord wants you to forgive.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

No, okay, that's really, really helpful. Now, if you're on the other side of this and you're the person that did the hurting, whether you're the wife or whether you're the husband, I want to speak to you for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Okay, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

If your husband or wife is angry, don't rush them. Do not shame them for their pain. Don't tell them, can we just get over this? I thought we were past this. Can we just move on?

SPEAKER_01 39:05

No, this process is Oh, that's probably the worst thing you could say.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Can we just move on? Oh, it just makes the person makes them makes my makes my hair want to catch on fire.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I know.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Don't tell them to get over it. Yes. Don't use scripture to silence their grief, which is okay, I'm gonna keep going before I go off on a tangent on that one.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

We hear this a lot.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Do not say, Well, if you forgave me, why are you still hurting? There's another one I want to say something, but I won't. Okay, now you're like, let's move on. That is not how healing works. It's not how healing works. If you really want restoration, then you make room for their process. You make room for their anger without making it all about your discomfort.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Let me say that again is that you make room for their anger without making it about your discomfort. You make room for the consequences of what happened.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

You make room for however long it's gonna take. And while they're processing forgiveness, your assignment is not to pressure them. Your assignment is to become trustworthy.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Oh, that is so good. Yes, and it's so good. Okay, baby, let's let's close up. Let's close. Yeah, let's close up.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

All right. So let's wrap this up.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

There's so much to this. Hopefully, you took lots of noise.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

So I guess what I want to leave you with on this is moving beyond the anger and revenge and moving towards the forgiveness process, recognizing it's not easy. But it is necessary if you want to heal. And again, forgiveness, it's not denial, it's not stuffing it under the rug. It's saying, okay, I don't want to be imprisoned by this anymore. So don't do this on your own. Please don't. Whether your spouse wants to go through the process and get help, you do you. You go, you got to go through this process. And like Janelle said, whether it's with us or with someone else, do it with someone that you trust. And there's more to this process, but in the next episode, we're going to keep building on this in the series that we're learning about rebuilding trust. And if this episode encouraged you and it gave you wisdom, you're like, oh my gosh, that's exactly where I'm at. I'm probably, there were several points where you were thinking, okay, you're talking to me right now. Or maybe you're like, oh my gosh, I have a friend that's going through this right now. They need to hear this, share it with them, share it with someone who needs it. And if there's anything else you want to share, then we'll wrap this up.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yeah. I just want to share one more thing is that if you are here right now where you are harboring bitterness, anger, unforgiveness, ask the Lord to help you. And you may not be able to do it all at once. Often forgiveness happens in layers. And like we said earlier, that you may need to forgive again and again and again as a pain arises or it rises to the surface. And then there'll be days where you felt like, oh, I'm good. And then there's days where you're not. That is normal. It can kind of feel like a little bit of a roller coaster. But every time you choose to forgive, you are choosing freedom. And that matters. And I know we've said this multiple times on the podcast, but we talk to so many people who tried to figure it out on their own for years. And then they finally come to us to get help, or they they finally decide to get help, and they only wish they would have done it sooner. I hear it every day. I wish I would have done this three years ago. I wish I would have done this before I got married. I wish I would have known this right when the infidelity happened. I wish I would have done something. And what we see so often is that couples try to figure it out on their own. They're embarrassed. They don't want to be exposed. They maybe don't want to spend the money, the time, whatever. There's all kinds of reasons. And we're telling you, do not do this on your own. I'm telling you, your healing, your freedom, everything will move faster and be in a healthy acceleration of moving toward a healthy marriage if you get help and you get the right kind of help. Because often there needs to be inner healing, there needs to be forgiveness, there needs to be deliverance, there needs to be tools. There's got to be multiple things that need to happen to really help you rebuild a healthy marriage.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Amen. All right. Well, God bless you. We will see you on the next episode.