TOS of a Chat with Mom & Sis on Bucket Lists, Wills, Death & Vacations!

They're backkkkkkkk <3 The last Wednesday of the month means mom and sis join Nadine for another funny, candid chat that starts with favourite breakfasts and spirals into bigger life questions. 

Bucket lists. When Nadine admits her dream trip to South Africa has stayed a “someday” fantasy since she was 16, the three unpack why that may be so, which leads to a conversation about the meaning we attach to bucket lists and how perhaps doing the thing we've always wanted to do means that the dream is over. 

This leads to a raw conversation as they revisit how their dad avoided talking about dying and delayed making a will because of a superstition. They then reflect on the legal realities of death, including generational attitudes and how grief can turn into conflict over money or even small possessions. 

This episode ends on a light note, with what travel means to each of them, sharing chaotic road-trip stories from Germany and dreaming about their future “Vera” filming-locations tour in England.

nh x

@the_otherside_pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Other Side Pod. I'm Needine. We're not experts, we're just humans having a human experience we think we can learn from, or relate to, or laugh at, or cry over. So hit download, dive in, and hear how folks found themselves on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

We're back with mutter and sister. I what's your favorite breakfast food?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Porridge.

unknown 0:44

What?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I knew you were gonna say that. Porridge is my favorite, absolute favorite thing to have. And I guess it's from my childhood because uh that's kind of like it was a go-to, a staple. I guess a cheap food item, readily available because it was in dried form. You didn't need refrigeration, you just it was in a bag and you stored it in a cover. It was always flavorful because if you put enough sugar and milk on something, it's bound to be flavorful. Okay, so rolled oats, you boil them on the stove? You do, you do just simmer three, four, five minutes, depending on the type of rolled oats. There are obviously different kinds you can get. Yeah, right. Deal cut and uh large flake and instant and all of that, right? But uh a good nutritious start to your day, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Always find it filling podcast sponsored by Quaker, Quaker, oh Quaker, Quaker, Quaker. Yeah, we're gonna be sponsored by like Quaker, Pepto Bismall, Magnesium. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Does that entail money and tricks?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Roll in and trip. Don't forget to pack your depends. Sponsored by depends. That depends. Danielle, what's your favorite breakfast food? I love toast. I just love simple toast and butter in the morning time, blathered with like peanut butter. Sometimes jam if I'm upward, but mostly just peanut butter. I love like my slice of toast. And mom's been making homemade bread, like those sourdoughs and artesian breads lately, which is just delicious. But just like a thick slice. Oh my artist. Mom makes artisan bread sponsored by artesian bread.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I always say that word wrong. Oh my god. I love you, sweetheart. I love you. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

So what's your favorite tea? I do still love a pancake. I just can't have it now because a lot of them are made with milk. So I make my own with almond milk. And oh my god, a pancake is so delicious. Then I stew like berries with a bit of maple syrup and vanilla extract and pour it over. So good. Yummer shit. I know. I take away a slice of sourdough bread. A little compound of almond flower pan cake. I don't know, so good. Anyway, bucket lists sponsored by buckets. Of your grocery store of Canadian Tire. Okay, I want to talk about bucket lists. Here's what brought me to this. Every year I plan a vacation and I'm booking it and researching it, and I like doing all those things. My dream trip is South Africa. I have been saying that since I was 16. I'm 48. I've never once attempted to plan to go to South Africa. It's almost like now it's this thing that I just love the idea of. Like, I'm gonna do it, but it's like the anticipation is so exciting that like I just it's almost, I don't know, I'm having a hard time explaining it, but like, why don't I sit and actually plan South Africa and go? It seems too big. It seems like, oh, not yet. That's like my dream trip, and and I'm only a baby, except now I'm like, well, you're 48. So why do you keep planning trips to other places and not do this dream trip? So anyway, it's kind of shaking me to my core thinking about it lately. So do you guys have something like this?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Uh I I don't, but do you think that if if you did eventually book that trip and go that that would be it? Like, oh my god, there's nothing else to look forward to.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

No, because I also can't wait to go to Japan and spend like I David and I have this idea of spending a month in Japan because there's so much to do and see, and and that's also like a bigger trip that we're like, oh, okay, we're gonna do that. And there's lots of places that I want to go. Like we just booked Amsterdam after I see you in London, actually, mom, because neither of us have been to Amsterdam, and I also want to go to Denmark one day, and I want to go to Switzerland. Like, there's like tons of places. I mean, I want to go to Tefino in my own country. I think it's it seems like such a big trip that it almost seems out of reach, except I've spent money on all these other things. If I just don't spend money there and do this, it's the same. So yeah, why am I not planning it? Well, so the idea is for my 50th. But even then, why not for my 49th? Like, why am I making it such a so if I were to say there's a bucket list? I don't like to say that's on a bucket list because bucket list to me sounds like well, I guess the definition of bucket list is things I want to do before I die. And so maybe there's a part of me, like dad. Remember, he didn't want to make a will because he's like, the minute I make a will, I'll die. And then jokes on us, that's happened. Jokes on us. That did. I mean, yeah. Oh god, I know, and the night, and I remember that hotel bed that night, and he looked at me and he was like, Glad I did my will now. I was like, Dad, he was like, talk humor, I'll get you three, sweetheart. I was like, fair, and I'm told that story over like he never wanted to make that will because it equated to death, which I guess wasn't bucket.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

A final, a final act, yeah, a final act, and it was that's how we always felt. And I I just went along with him, and I never ever made a will either until that time, right? But yeah, it was an innate here.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Bucket list bucket list aside for everyone listening. You had three kids and not a will to be found. So if something happened, where would myself, Danielle, and Steven have gone?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

We need to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Somebody would have figured it out. We were children, somebody would have figured it out.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

We had people who loved your sweetheart.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

But they didn't know where they I can't even okay. So you didn't do a will.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Your life is obviously we never had to worry about it. And and I don't know. We and your father would never ever talk about dying. Maybe he thought he never was going to die, because you know, we all know we're gonna die, but we all think, oh god, that's not gonna happen to me, type thing, or maybe not the way, way down the road. He just never ever wanted to discuss it. Every time I'd bring it up, he just pushed it aside, pushed it aside. So we just hoped that we wouldn't die. And what were the chances of two of us dying at the one time for Christ's sake? You know, you'd always have one pair to the other, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:39

I mean, great. Yeah, and the places went to, yeah, which is why I was like, you guys meet are well, you cannot leave us to figure all this out. I mean, we were 40s and 50s. I was like, buys like I know that we're older, but we're not gonna figure this out. Like, you need to tell us what you're but you would you would figure it out, sweetheart.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

You would that's what we always said. What else you're gonna do? Yeah, what else you're gonna do after we're gone? You gotta give you something to do, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Figure out your light on our plates. We don't know. I'm gonna get you the Swedish art of death for your next birthday. What is that? There's like a I think it's like the Swedish art of dying. I haven't read it yet, but it I think it's about setting yourself up for your death so that the people that are still alive after you don't have the work of going through all of that stuff. It's like, I mean you're not you're not a hoarder by any means. You're like the uh opposite where like you get rid of a lot of things like every year. You were always spring cleaning, winter cleaning, all that stuff, and I'm the same way. So there's not it's not like we're gonna walk into the house and be like, oh god. But some people have a lot of stuff, like basements full of things and old paperwork and this and that, and it's hard to know like where their will is, what do they want, what does she like? It's just making things simpler for those behind so that when you're in deep grief, you also don't have to tackle the insurmountable, sometimes what probably feels insurmountable task of going through all of someone's stuff and figuring out where they want it to go.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And I I think the opposite. I think after somebody dies, it's nice to have those things to sit into, to deflect your mind, to take your, you know, take you to a different place and let you go down memory lane and let you decide as you're going what you want to keep, what you want to divide up. Big things I can understand, you know, like if you had money or a home or whatever, all of that stuff. But personal stuff, what else you gotta do with your time when somebody is dead and you're in between going to the funeral home, waiting for the service to be done, celebration life or whatever. I think it I think it helps to bring families together at a at a time of of great loss and sorrow. That's just how I I feel about it, honey. I I don't I don't necessarily think I have to have everything in place when I'm gone because you'll you'll figure it out. Everybody figures it out.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

It's just just a way of what house aside, like main things aside, some people have a lot of things. Like you you don't like you have a lot of things, you have a house full of things, but I think some people have an insurmountable amount of stuff that like why would you leave that to somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

I'd do it if I if somebody did that to me and I went into that house, if it was my parents or in-laws, or I would just bring garbage bags and I'd say, obviously, they didn't want to do anything with this, so I would just dump it, don't eat what I could. It I don't think I don't look at it as overwhelming, and and maybe I'm I'm looking at it in a I what's different like than you guys, but I don't think that that would be overwhelming. I think it would be a process that not not that I wouldn't enjoy, but I would enjoy going through. I think it's a a trip through people's lives, it's a look inside what's but what was important to somebody else, you know. And and I remember with Aunt Loretta when we moved her out of the apartment and and into a senior's assistant living. And that's what we had, you know, your dad and I had to do with her. And it was basically, and she sat and she watched it. And I said, Aunt Loretta, would you like to leave? You know, we'll do this. Oh no, she said, I'm fine. She said they're all just things, and that's what they were. You know, things they were important for a time when she needed them and used them and appreciated them, but it comes a point, whether it's just before you're you're ready to go or after you're gone. I think these are just things, papers. I don't know if you're an artist. That there's only so much of that stuff that you could keep anyway. And I but I I would think it would be um for me, even to have stuff to go through. I think it's it's it it just it's interesting to to see what's important. Like you think you know somebody, but people hang on to little different things for different reasons, and like I said, it I think it would help me through the through the grieving process, right? Having gone through grieving processes in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah. I mean, I I agree with you on going through people's photos and artwork and that stuff. I'm just I think we're talking about two different things. I think you need to know, like your kids or whoever you're leaving your things to. Well, I mean, if you don't have a will, who knows what you're leaving to who? Like if you have a house, you have cars, you have different. Yeah, it's yeah, I think you know you have to have that set up. But I can't believe you didn't do that till we were all adults. Were you ever did it ever keep you up at night? Knowing that we didn't have that stuff in place?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

No, no at all. When you're young, honey, you don't think about those things. You don't you don't think about dying, you don't think about the what ifs. You just you're going along day to day and you're you're hoping you're gonna go along and go along, and you hope your kids are coming along with you. Obviously, lots of uh tragic things happen in people's lives, but I don't know, we were just we just never prepared for it. And and what would have happened, I'm sure you would have been taken care of. And I I I you probably were stressed out because of it, not a lot more than what your dad and I were, but we just never gave it a second thought. It just I don't know if most people do. I've I really, really don't. And you're from a different different generation now than what we were, but back in the day you figure, well, I got nothing. What do I want a will for? If you die, the kids are going to inherit whatever you got anyway, right? But here's the interesting thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yes, okay, and also so you know I didn't think about it as a little kid. So never crossed my mind. Okay, but you pushed me to get a will, like probably, I don't know, eight years ago, seven years ago, and you were like, you have to have this figured out because you and David aren't legally married. Right. So here's the flip side, instead of being like, it'll all work out, you'll figure yourself out. You are looking at your daughter, going, get this in order because yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

But that's the league, that's the legal part, and you're talking financial things, it's a lot different than what we talked about earlier, going into somebody's home and saying this person was a mini hoarder and they kept all of this stuff. That's a lot different. I I can appreciate yes, having your financial situation all you know written out and iron as iron clad as you can make it type thing. That that's entirely different, sweetheart. I and we we never had that because we figured, well, we only had to do with three kids, so whatever we had would go to you anyway. So it was kind of like a a default. If you got it, if we're gone, you got it.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Okay, so legally, if you don't have a will and you have three kids, legally, if God forbid both parents died, even though you don't have a will, that money and your house would immediately be divided equally between the kids you have?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Is that like yes, yeah, yeah. That's inheritance right, yeah. As far as I know. Now, I mean it might cost you money to go through the court system to have a lawyer and do all that and go through probate and make sure that you know our debts were all paid and that, but yes, legally, that's your legal inheritance, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Still think you need to have it set up to avoid uh like the time it would take to have access to it, how it would be divided. I don't know, like we could have invited we could have invited Chris Pettigrew on here to tell us the all of those things, but back back in the day, they weren't they weren't in issue for us, they weren't it it was just it was an afterthought to even have a will. Yeah, and like your parents wouldn't have had a will, right? That wasn't even a thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

No, exactly, sweetheart. Got it, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Danielle, do you have a will? Yeah, I think it's just from a legal. I don't have a I don't have a will, no, but I have no dependents, so I mean I should have a will to leave everything to somebody. It's it'll go to it'll it'll go to the state, I think, wouldn't it? So there is like a list of like where yeah, like there is a list legally of who it goes to, like I don't I don't know it off my hand, but I remember when I worked in a cute care, there it when people didn't have wills when they passed away, there is a list legally of who it goes to, like first, second, third, or fourth. If you're married or if you have kids, or if you are not married, and that's the thing, the difference if someone's married with children or just married, legally you're bound together. But if you're with somebody like yourself and David, who are married by heart and soul, but don't have that legal documentation. If for whatever reason one went before the other, you have no legal right to property or anything like that. So anyone could contest it. Ontario with common law rights in Ontario, it's different than the common law rights in Newfoundland. So I remember going in I think any provincial, just in case. And we don't and we don't know the answers. Yeah, yeah. Why not even get a will? Yeah, I know. I don't have a will, I should, but I I really I don't. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Whoopsies, write something down in your own handwriting and put it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

But it you probably need someone to witness it, like get mom to witness it and sign or something. I can't cut it because I I'd be a beneficiary.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Right? Have to be somebody that's not if I'm silly.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I I how presumptuous of you, mother. What if what if I gosh now it's just Connor and Ethan?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Presumptuous? No, I'm just saying name if somebody is named in your will, they can't be a witness, right? And I'm I'm just talking about I'm here now and she's here now. Not preaching. I get it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

No, I get it, I get it. Okay, so dad, the whole time, never like his whole life, he never wanted to talk about death.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

What what would happen if you tried to bring it up?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

He would just shut it down, not talking about it. Not talking about it, not doing a will. If you do a will, you're gonna die. I I could never get him to. I it was a fear that he always had, or uh I don't know, uh a superstition, or maybe he had heard stories growing up, I don't know. I mean he lost his dad at a young age, so I don't know. And that affected him. I mean, his father never had a his father did have a will, actually.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Definitely affected him. His father had a will that long ago.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yes, a paper written. It wasn't uh it wasn't legal, but it was a paper thing and signed. And actually his mom destroyed it because he had left the house and that and stuff to to dad because he was the male and the girls didn't get anything back in the day, but she wasn't having any of that. She wanted her two daughters, dad's two sisters, to have equal rights to whatever they had, which was you know a home and a and a piece of property over and uh in northern bay where they grew up, right? But anyway, that's the story that dad always told. Yeah, go grandmom.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

She destroyed it. Yeah, she destroyed it and then said it didn't exist.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Like when no one, yeah, yeah, no one could find it, right? The sun, the sun got everything because the girls didn't need it, they were going to marry somebody anyway, have their own kids and have their own house, right? But grandmom, no, she she wasn't having any of that. Remarkable, she was ahead of her time, much ahead of her time.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

She really was.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yes, there really was. You should talk, yeah. Yeah, you should talk to Auntie Joe and Auntie T C about that. I'm sure they have a lot more stories about what he has growing up.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Auntie Joe has told me some good stories about her. Yeah. So what made dad get a will at the end of it? You and Dad got it at the same time. Like, how did Well he had been diagnosed?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

He was he was pretty ill, so he knew there was something going on.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Oh, this is before he got sick.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

No, it was no, it was yeah, in October. And he was diagnosed in November.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

But he had so he was uh so he didn't know he he had cancer, but he knew he wasn't feeling good.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

He knew he was he knew he was really sick, yeah. Yeah. I would actually went in August before we went on our holiday, and then when we came back, we had the fond of meeting with her, and then yeah, it was just before he got his diagnosis, and we went back in the sign that he had had his diagnosis, right? Yeah, that was the three months, and then we never played.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I had to call the lawyer for something I can't remember now. It was months, months later, and we were joking that he had told her the story about to do the will, and then finally did it, and then he got the diagnosis. She was like, Dark humor. I was like, dark humor for the Hogan. Yeah, like you never wanted, and then oh, joking, like jokes, but then it was done.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah, then thank God, thank god.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah, yeah. Well, it just I mean, I don't care how close you are in the family or yeah, partners, like when it comes down to money and properties and diving up, like anything can happen. Like, yeah. So I think it's really important to know where things are going and how it's being divided. I mean, yeah, for us, you always I mean, you guys always said without even a will, like everything gets divided equally between the three of you. You always pull it stuff in seniority, like so. But I mean, for some families, like I mean, we've heard horror stories about fights over minimal, like, you know, a pair of earrings or an instrument or a couch or a chair or an ATV. Like it just when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, like everything. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just amazing. Imagine a family being torn apart after losing someone they all loved so deeply and dearly.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, and then you end up losing each other over money material things, like it's almost like that becomes becomes a distraction in its in itself, right? Like and you think like you can be that process.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

I know many. Many stories that it's happened, like it's I know unbelievable what happens to family, but I think it's part of the grieving, the anger, and like you said, the distraction and and all of it. Yeah, and maybe it opens up some old wounds, right? Through siblings or whoever. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

They're buried, but they're not buried very deep.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Oh, yeah, totally. And the connection to a material thing when really we all have our independent memories.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

A lot of guilt and and regret comes out with with death and dying. And I think that comes through with when you get into like the nitty-gritty of like fighting over just material stuff that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Absolutely, honey. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Okay, but why haven't I booked the trip to South Africa? Let's get back to South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

That's the only thing I can see, honey, is that if you fulfill that that childhood dream, that that's the end of your childhood dreams. I don't know. I'm all good gone. But you know, like you said, that that takes you so far back in time. That's something you always wanted is that, oh god, now if I do, I should have now I'm an old person. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

I think that's why I don't have bucket lists. Right to my heart. Right. But I think that's why I don't have a bucket list, or I've never talked in bucket list lingo, because it's always like it's kind of like what's next, what's next, what's next? Or like if you don't ever get to the list, it's like comes with a disappointment or the negative narrative, like, why didn't I do it? And then the shame around, like, well, I had access to it, I had fun, I had time, I had people. So I like to take things in baby steps. Like, because there's probably cons to a bucket list for sure. I mean, it's goals and aspirations, but there's something about calling it a bucket list because you hear about it like the things I need to do before I die. But what happens if you get diagnosed? You're like, shit, I never got to do my bucket list. Like, do you die with regret? Or do you all? I mean, don't we all?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

I mean, I hope not. I think we'll die with regrets.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

What would you regret?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Not living longer. Being angry because I had to go. Oh my god, hilarious. It's it's funny. We all know we're going to die. We just think it's it's not gonna happen to me, right? It's we really do. It's like I I don't know what it is of that mindset, and I guess that's what helps us get up every morning, put one foot in front of the other, because each step we take is is towards our own demise. Every decision we make takes us closer to, you know, towards what. So you can't, if you thought like that, you'd you'd never get out of bed in the goddamn morning. You just wouldn't, right? So it's this thing that I know I'm gonna die, but I I don't think I really am. This is it's that's what you do.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

I think well, it's like I know I'm gonna die, but I don't think I'm I don't think it's gonna happen today, almost, you know. So then and then today is every day. Yeah, today is every day. Honestly, I do not think like that at all. It's so interesting to me. No, no, like I know I'm what's that? What do you think? Like uh I know I'm going to die. It could be today, it could be tomorrow, it could be in 10 years' time, or it could be in 20 years' time, but I think that's why it's that's why I'm motivated to get up every day because it could be my last day. Like, so I want to get up and get out and enjoy or sit on the couch and silk if I want to. But if I get up and suck on the couch and it is my last day, I'm not gonna regret doing that because it's what I wanted to do. So I think when I get up and do what I set out to do, I feel like, okay, that was a good day. If that's first, I'm good to go. Afraid of dying. I'm afraid of not living.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Oh, that makes sense, right? Yes, sweetheart. Yes, it does. Yes, we can't be afraid of dying because we all have to die. We have there's no choice. This it's not a saying raising your hand, do you want to go? It's just when are you going? And somebody, something or something, other outside forces determine that for you. But no, we what's the point of being afraid? Because we all have to go. That's that's my point, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:46

And if you were to go tonight, Danielle. There's nothing that you're like, oh, I wish I did that. No, because if I wished I didn't, I would have already done it. Yeah, yeah. I'm just kinda like sorry. No go. No, I just feel like I got good friends, I got good family, I had a good job, like it'd be nice to hear people say that after. But like it is what it is at that point. Like, there's nothing I can do tomorrow that would make me a different person if I went tonight versus tomorrow night. There's no like part of the world that you're like, God, I wish I saw that, or no, no, like I mean, I love to travel and I will continue to travel, but there's nothing I'm yearning for beyond travel and the experience of being with other people, or but I don't need it to feel fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I feel like you yeah, sorry, Sega, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I feel like Danielle, you love to travel, but what's actually more important to you is who you're going on the trip with. I feel like if you were to get to be given, like you can you can go to Finland, Iceland, or Japan, and you'd be like, cool, open to all three, who's going? But I feel like your experience of travel is wrapped up in that whole in the whole thing, like who's going, what's the plan, what's the idea of it, uh, what's the expectation on it? I think that's a big thing for you. Like, what are these people gonna expect me to do? And then if it's if it's something that you're like, that would be relaxing and respectful of what I want to do as well, then you're like, okay, I'll go there. So oh, a hundred percent. Like our upcoming trip to Italy, say, for instance, like it's myself and two of my girlfriends going, and Martina and Deanne, and we travel well together. We started talking about Italy. Um, I'm like, let's do it. Martina's been there before, Deanne and I haven't. And Martina is a planner, just like you. So she's like, What do you want to do? I was like, I just want to go to Italy. I just want to, I want to have fun. I want to see, like my my wish list was like, or my bucket list for Italy was like, I want to have fun, I want to have my own bedroom, I want to be able to go coastal and inland. Anything else? You can plan it. And she has Martinez has planned everything, but it is the experience re and who I'm with, and making sure that we're all on the same page around I need a home base, I don't want to jump every two or three nights. I, you know, my body and my mind cannot handle that. But they're on the same mindset as me, too. So that's why I think it works. And you go for the vibe of it. I go for the vibe of it, right? And and the whole experience, like it wouldn't work for me if the three of us had different ideas and expectations of what this would be like. If I got the choice of Finland, Iceland, or Japan, like equally three of those. I'm like, ooh, I want to go to all three. And I knew I could go with like a pocket of people that I'd be similar travel-wise with like similar enjoyment, I would base it on the place. I'd be like, what am I in the mood to do? Like, but base it on the feel of it. What about you, mom? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Travel-wise. Well, I guess I was so used to traveling with your dad, sweetheart, and most of our trips were road trips, or you know, in the RB, especially in the last 10 years, 10, 15 years of his life. And it was more about the journey, getting there. We had never had anything planned. We didn't know how far we were going to go. We always we always went down to the States and back if we went across Canada twice, drove from one end to the other, east to west coast. And it was always about us just being together, the conversations and the laughs, and the all that we shared going through, the places that we we stopped just because we were tired, or just because it was a nice day, or just because, just because. And the people that we met along the way, the stories that we collected from people and from ourselves because of the things that we experienced. And to me, that was that that always brought me and your dad just the best, the best joy, and I guess the best enjoyment of any kind of a trip. It it certainly topped ear travel or train travel because you don't get that one-on-one connection for such a long period of time, and with people as well, because you're passing people in airports and train stations and things like that. But when you're RVing, it's a whole different experience. You're kind of living in people's environment for you know short periods of time, little little snippets of time, but but you you grasp then little snippets of people's lives and you know, stories along the way. And you, as you know, your dad was uh always a great storyteller, and he he absorbed whatever people would told him, and he had a very unique way of drawing people out, you know, and getting from them exactly what he wanted to get from them. And so that was always the great, it was it was the journey itself, the time, the time invested in going somewhere, and then the people, the interactions with other humans, because we are social beings, so that that's what always made it for us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

When you guys backpacked around Europe, you and Dad, uh did where did you did you did you stay in hostels, like to meet other people? No.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

No, no, not hostels, uh, just different hotels, whatever, whatever we came upon. And of course, we always had a car, your dad would would drive anywhere, right? Face the devil, your father would. Yeah. So we drove everywhere, but we always stayed in, you know, not five-star hotels, mind you, but nice hotels where you felt safe and comfortable. And the odd time you didn't, but that was the luck of the draw, right? Depending on where you were. But yeah, it was just just get in the car, you know, and and go.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Just yeah, that was your kind of ideal vacation, almost like yeah, yeah. You know, where you know, you know how you're gonna get there, but you don't care where you end up, kind of deal.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

No, no, and and the walking, we always enjoyed walking. There was days, no matter where we were, we'd get up in the morning, that was our go-to, and just walk. Sometimes we wouldn't be home until nighttime. You'd collapse in the bed and we'd get up the next day and do the same thing again. And that again was it was a walking journey because again, you meet people, you know, you're stopping to eat, you're stopping to have a drink, or you're stopping to just to have a break outside of a cafe. And people are the same everywhere. They're social beings, like I said, and people are just only too happy to talk to you and find out where you're from and what you're doing, and like I said, sharing a human experience, and that's what it's all about. That that's what we feel, that's what we get fulfillment from, is from other people, you know, the sharing of like stories.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I'm thinking, uh well, number one, I just want to say I love how the three of us are are different, you know. Like we all like to travel, but we all like to do it for different reasons. And I'm laughing because so many things are making sense of when I traveled with you. I remember surprising you and dad on the on the cruise back in 2019. Remember, I didn't tell you I was coming with you, and you guys had booked this cruise. Anyway, point of this is we were on some beach, I think it was like Tortola or something like that. Yes, yeah. And dad and David were swimming or something, and you and I went for a walk down the beach. Well, I remember there was a group of people, I don't know, maybe like five adults, like walking toward us, and I was walking through the water. So you were with me, and the people were like just feet away from us, but you were like, come closer, like so we can ask them, I don't know how they're doing or something. And I was like, What? Like, who? And you were like, that group of people. I'm like, we don't know them, and you were like, What happened to you? And I'm like, what? And you're like, aren't you curious? Don't you want to engage? I was like, not one bit. I just I just want to walk with you, and you were like, Don't be so shut down, 18. And you walked away from me, and you're like, Hello, how's the walk? Oh, it's beautiful. Like, and then the second, and I'm like, Oh, this makes sense because you travel to engage to immerse yourself in it, and you're like, Who's around? What's their story? And part of me is there for that. I do like a BB. People hate a B, or I like a an Airbnb where the hosts have like good ratings because it's like clean and safe and all the things we all look for. But also if the hosts kind of live nearby and they're really friendly and they get tons of reviews, like I'm booking that place because I do want to engage, but then I want my own space. So there's a part of me that likes it, but not strangers on a beach. And then the other thing I'm thinking of is when you and I walked in Spain, we walked part of the Camino together. And after a day and a half, you would looked at me and you said, if this was your dad and I on this trip, we'd bail now. And I'm like, bail, but the point of this is like I've I've organized nine days of walking, mom. Like the point of it is is to see each day through. And you were like, Yeah, I know how it feels now. It's been a day and a half. Like it's like, oh, okay, this is how this would be. And then we'd honestly, Nadine, we'd we'd walk directly to a hotel, stay there, rent a car the next day, and we'd just drive to the next town. And I was like, my mind, I couldn't understand what you meant. Because I'm like, but we came to walk the Camino. Don't you want to see what the next day of the Camino is? And you were like, yeah. I get it. You're also a seven on the Enneagram, like me. So you liked you're like, okay, I got that. I know what this is like. Now I want to go do this. Now I want to go do this. This is very seven-ish of you. And why also why I like so we're also different the three of us in terms of travel, and then we travel well together. Yeah, because you travel, we travel a lot together. We do, but you being, I don't know the ins and outs of the enneagram, but also a sevens. You both being sevens. Wait, you just cut, you just cut off what'd you say? I was like, I don't know much about the enneagram, but you both being sevens, like I'm just in the back seat. Like, now you know why I'm just like, I don't care. I don't care who you guys are like Germany was amazing with the two. I can't even think of examples, and I hope I mean I really wish I had a GoPro on to like show the world, the both of you, in your prime because lazzers you're so give me the example, explain you're so similar, but you will fight that you're similar. Like I know you know that you're similar, but I mean, for example, when we were driving and that day that that you were watching, I think it was the GPS or mom had her phone. Remember, it was the can't remember where we're going now, but you were watching the you wanted her to watch the GPS of the car, but she had her phone GPS on, and she was trying to compare it to make sure that it was the same way, and then she got crooked, and then you got crooked, and then I was at the back just like rocking back and forth in the fetal position because I felt so awkward that you guys weren't talking, and then you tried to break the ice by being like, Hey, like, did you want to listen to like a podcast? I was like, No, I do not, and you were like, Well, she stayed to engage her in her feelings first. I said, Right, okay, but here's actually what happened. I have a really good memory. Two times mom and I didn't talk in Germany. I remember nothing. Actually, no, what will actually highlight our seven-ish behavior and your six-ish behavior, Danielle? Because sixes are like you're always like foreseeing like a potential problem. You're like, what could happen? What like what can go wrong? Mom and I are like, what could go right? So it's I get it. David's also six. So traveling, I have to balance my, but what could go right with like, oh my god, Nidi, but what could go wrong? And now that I understand where he's coming from, I'm I try to be way more compassionate. But in Germany, there was no compassion in this moment. Mom and I, there was a roadblock. And mom and I were like, what could go right? Let's let's drive around it. And Danielle in the back, you were like, No, you guys, it's a roadblock for a reason. Like, there are rules. And we were like, like, rules, Danielle, because on my GPS, if I went straight, we'd be at the next hotel in I don't know, let's say an hour. If I detoured, it was like three hours. I'm like, that can't be right. And so mom and I were like, let's ignore it. And you were so frustrated in the back, but sh but you definitely shut down and stopped talking to us. And mom and I were like, Well, I could go right. And then I nearly drove over a bridge that basically didn't have a middle in it. Like it would have been bad news. And that's when mom and I were like, ooh, we should turn around. And that's when you were like, I told you, why would you try to go around this? Why wouldn't you listen to the rules? Why would you ignore the signs? You got you nearly got us killed. Yes, that's that's what a three of them. The other time like a will. Yes, that that's a really good example of sevens and sixes traveling. But the other time you're thinking of it's because Lorraine, I was driving and she was like, she kept going and it and I it got to me. And at one point I was like, Mom, shut up. And mom did. She shut up for about six hours. Right. I told us wrong, right. And then and then I said, and then like I knew I shouldn't have said shut up to my mother. I get it. So probably an hour into the silent driving on the Autobahn, I said, Mom, I hurt your feelings. Do you want to tell me? Do you want to talk about it? I definitely hurt your feelings, and I'm sorry about that. She's like, What? I don't have any feelings, which is actually very seven-ish. I don't even hurt my feelings. I'm just quiet. I'm like, No, I definitely hurt your feelings. Do you want to talk about it? And you were like, No, I don't have any feelings. And then I said, Hey Danielle, how are you feeling? And you were like, Very uncomfortable. And then I said, Do you want to listen to a podcast? And mom's like, No, but feel free to put your earbuds in if you do. I was like, I'm driving on the Autobahn. I can't wear ear pods and listen to a podcast. And you were like, huh, okay. And then remember we would say to mom, this is how we would do it. Because we drove from Munich to Berlin. We took like a week driving from Munich to Berlin and stopping in Small Towns. It was such a good trip. And on the way to the next small town, mom would Google the town and tell us about it. So we were, this was our longest drive this day. I don't, it wasn't six hours, actually. I exaggerated. It was probably three, but that was like the longest of any day. And let's say we were driving to, let's say we were coming upon Berlin. And I'm like, mom, do you want to tell us about Berlin? And she was like, No, I don't. Oh my god. Oh, you know what? We were going to Dresden because Dresden, yes, yes. Yeah, because I remember when we got to Dresden, mom still wasn't talking to me. And we went, we ended up in that set set town square and parked the car. We checked into our hotel, which was so beautiful over the square. Then you and I sat down and we got a beer from one of the places in the in that little market in the middle, and we sat, and mom went off to get an Aperol Spritz. And I looked at you Danielle and I said, What why can't she tell me how she's feeling? And you said, She doesn't know. She needs time. And I was like, Oh, and now I get it as a seven. I get it. I like she just doesn't know how to tell you. Yeah. She yeah, you need time to like even yeah, to have to even under be like, Oh, I am feeling something. Because I definitely was mean to you. Like, I told you to shut up. I mean, you were aggravating. I admit I was that's what six hours of that's about six hours of the carabine for you. I was like, one more gasp, Lorraine. Yeah, she didn't gasp at the detour. No, the detour, she was like, Keep going, baby. You got it, you'll never lead us astray. You're such a good driver, Nidine. Shocked. And I'm like, there is the end of the road, there's no road, but we recognized the honey and we stopped after we did it like three times. Yeah, it was on yeah, and I can't, yeah. Or sorry, Sneehart. Sorry, anyway. I just think it's so interesting how we all definitely are different, and yet we can travel together. Like, well, I just think that totally yeah. Also, we set clear expectations now. We're smarter about it, we communicate way better. If we travel together 10 years, way better. Just the three. Of us, I think it would have been a hard time. Oh my god, yes. And I think life starts more mature, and we're mature and we communicate better. And I think we know ourselves better and we know each other better. Sorry, I cut you off. What'd you say? No, no. I was like totally disagreeing with you. Like, yeah, we just yeah, I don't think we would have been able to do this years ago. I mean, yeah, we would not never have been able to do this years ago.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

You just have more different stories. Yeah, more fun. Yeah, yeah. That's part of the life, sweetheart. You know, you you can't not live in a certain quarter of your life because you know you don't know how to handle things.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

You just you go along and you go along, and we did the best we could do with the tools we have, but we're doing much better with the tools we have now, and we're still making mistakes, we're still, you know, learning from each other, which is wonderful. Yeah, which okay. Our next trip that I'm excited about, the three of us, we're gonna do uh a little Vera tour. Okay, if anybody hasn't watched it, we love Vera on Britbox, sponsored by Vera and Brit Box and trench coats and the rain hats, anyway. And rain hats, yes, yes. Okay, so we gotta get a trench coat. We gotta get the is it a green one she has? The green like army green and her little rain hat. Okay, we have to get matching trench coats and rain hats. Mom and I will look for them while we're in London this May. Oh, yeah, and yeah, and then we're gonna go to I don't know where, I mean, we just have to Google it, but I don't know where it's set. But go to wherever it is in England and almost do like a Vera tour, like go to that house. Maybe we could find the house she lived in and oh my god, behind scenes and that older leg that old Jeep rent like an old Jeep. Oh, yeah, what is it? Uh yeah, lander, a randomer or something. Yeah, we'll have to know the details, but it'll be our Vera tour. Sounds wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Okay, so before we hop off.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

I was gonna say, mom's got something with her computer, she keeps coming in and I know it always like zooms in. It's been doing that for ages. You got it on some kind of like auto view where when when you move that yeah, anyway, yeah. Before we hop off, is there anywhere else in the world that you want to see that you haven't seen yet?

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Me? No, no, because it's never, like I said, and I and I mean this wholeheartedly, this no place that I want to go. You know, I'm like dancy like that. It's it's it's the getting there and who I'm gonna be with and who I meet along the way and and when I'm there. But as we're sure your father and I went to to Rome, we wouldn't even go in to see the Sistine Trap Chapel ceiling. It it wasn't important. It was just being in Rome, walking the streets, meeting people, fellow, you know, like-minded tourists, and and local people. So I can't say, no, there's any particular place in the world that I I would love to to go and spend some time in it, because it's it's not about the destination, I guess, which is kind of, I don't know, it might sound corny, but it really, it really isn't. It could be someplace on the south coast of Newfoundland or the west coast of Newfoundland, or it's it's about the the time you spend getting there and sitting in the environment and the people that you meet you know along the way. Yeah. How about you, Speaker?

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Amy know you. Oh me, you go. There's I'm kind of like Mala. There's no destination that I have in the forefront of my brain. There's places I've been, and like we're very privileged. We've traveled quite a bit in our lives, in our adult lives. Um I definitely would revisit places, but there's no one place I'm like, I need to go there. Italy probably was always on like uh, oh, I wonder what Italy would be like. So I'll guess I'll report back in June about that. I know it's so amazing. But yeah, I think it's not again the destination for me, it's about the experience with the people going. And I mean, the Vera trip is gonna be hilarious. Don't even know where it is, but I already know it's gonna be amazing. Um, but like is it England? Is it Scotland? Is it Ireland? Like, I really believe England. It's England. Like at this moment, though, like I didn't know that. You said you said there's a place, there's places you go back to, like, name just one, just one. Ireland, I would go back in a heartbeat. Yeah, me too. Not like Dublin, but the Galway area, the west, western, and southern part of Ireland. I just loved it. I definitely go back there in a happy. How about you, Danny? All right. Oh my god, a million places. Like what? Like, name the day. But South Africa is huge on my list. As is spending, like, we all we spent a day in Japan just coming back from another place. Where were we? I think Cambodia. Anyway, when we spent a day layover in Japan, and both of us fell in love immediately, and we're like, we want to spend a lot of time here. So those are those are like standout. But I have a million places I want to go. Name the day, name the day. Monday. Monday. Uh really do want to go to Tefino. There's a time of the year when it's a like stormy season, or I don't know, stormy season, rainy season. That I read about. Yeah, and to Fino, and oh, to stay close to the ocean. And I have this idea of staying somewhere with like windows and watching the ocean. Oh god, just storm and rage. I would love to do that. But uh anyway.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

You can get that any weekend here. Storm and red.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

That's what me and mom do on a Sunday. We always call you from like Cape Fair when the or Middle Cove Beach when the storms are storms are rising. We do, we do get called to the sea often. I know. Oh god, it just makes me feel at home. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

It does sweetheart. Yes, and and it always it always will. It always will. All right, you two. Off you go.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Off you go, off you go. That's what mom says when she wants to kick you off the phone. I'm like, anyway, mom, and then I'll hear off you go. And I'm like, well, I guess Lorraine's done talking.

unknown 50:24

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

When she's done, she's done. I made noticed though, while we were talking about I'm like, ooh, that's a good idea to talk about next time. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

So always burning, my little turning, always burning.