TOS of Vincent Boutique

This week sisters Angie and Amanda Cambareri, owners of Vincent Boutique in Ottawa, Ontario, join Nadine for a candid chat about closet staples, owning a clothing store, and how they protect their tight bond while also ensuring they make the necessary decisions to continue growing their business.

Growing up in a close-knit Italian family, they both share how their early creativity and love of shopping was encouraged, and how their contrasting personalities - Angie being the responsible helper and Amanda the rule-bender - became a strength for them as business partners and entrepreneurs. 

From bootstrapping inventory and continuing to hold their full-time jobs in the early days, Angie and Amanda share their hard-learned lessons and their hopes for continued growth as they reflect on this last year as being the toughest they've ever experienced. Tariffs and shifting behaviours in their customers changed the landscape and prompted a strategic reset, diversification, and refreshed social media. 

Long story short - these two are not ones to rest into routine. They are continually learning, pivoting, testing markets and hosting events, all the while focused on the same thing since day one - making their clients feel seen. 

@the_otherside_pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the other side pod. I'm Needine. We're not experts. We're just humans having a human experience we think we can learn from, or relate to, or laugh at, or cry over. So hit download, dive in, and hear how folks found themselves on the other side. I'm so excited. Ange, one article of clothing in your closet that you like absolutely cannot live without. Mia Mara Raganbone.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

So if people don't know, they are sort of jeans and a sweat a sweatpant had a baby. And they're an elastic waistband. And I have about three cares.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

They're my favorite. Amanda, over to you. One item in your closet you cannot live without.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

I'll say this because Frankie will laugh, but that cashmere sweater that he hates so much, I will never get rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

But do you have a cashmere sweater that your husband's like, I hate this?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah, he likes he just like that sweater again. I think one year I over overwore it, and then he's like, okay, so you can retire that now, but it like still looks brand new. So it just every year I'm like, here we go again. It's like a joke now.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

But so I have to keep the joke living on. If you're investing in cashmere, number one, it's the softest. Number two, it's an investment. Like you, you just gotta get your wear out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Okay. One of the things that I will not part with, I wore it on purpose is this shirt that I got from your store Frank. Nice it now. That's my Frank and Eileen. So you two sold me on Frank and Eileen way back when I first met you. Gosh, I think I met you in like 2015, 2016. I bought this around that time. And I did retire it for a couple of years because you know, sometimes I do that. But most times I actually either consign or or donate my clothes. I've never been much of a saver. I'm not great like that. But I'm practicing putting things away for a year or two, like things that I really invested money in and I really liked. Um that still feel me. They're just like not me in the moment. Anyway, long story short, thank goodness this was one of those things that I did that with because I only do that with maybe two things a year. And then last year I was like, this is so soft. I'm not just saying this, this is not an ad for Frank and Eileen because they do not sponsor the other side pod, but maybe they should. Because I cannot believe this is 10 years old and just as soft. So if anybody's ever at Vincent and you're like, Do I do this with a Frank and Eileen shirt? Do I make this investment? You do.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

We always say like it will you will move it before it grows out of you. Like, yes, it's one of those pink, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah. And yesterday we were all at a photo shoot for International Women's Day. And Amanda, the photographer, another Amanda. Literally, the first thing I said when I saw her, I'm like, that shirt. She was like Vincent, and I go, Frank and Eileen, isn't it? Because you can just that pink stripe. Well, it's pink with like a red stripe. Yeah. Yeah. I thought about that when I went home. Please introduce yourselves. Amanda, over to you.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

I guess I'm Amanda and I'm one half of Vincent. I pretty much do all like the back end stuff of Vincent. Do I do I talk about like what I do at Vincent or like who I am as a human being? Whatever you want. You do you. Um tell us both. Yeah, like so. I just do all the back end, which is like where I like to live. And yeah, I'm a mom. I married my best friend, and I am living my life dreams, I guess, in every area of my life. So it's a good place to sit in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Oh, that's beautiful. How old is Penelope, your daughter? She's like five and a half.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Cute. And over to you. I'm the other half of Vincent. And for the longest time, I guess I would be the one at the face of it, and the one that would be out there more and meeting people and networking. And I did really love and I still do love that energy sometimes. Um, now I've tried to balance it a little bit more. Not the greatest at that, but and then yeah, I'm the oldest out of us kids. Like there's three of us, so I'm the oldest, and I'm still evolving and trying to figure life out.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Aren't we all, my friend? Aren't we all? Do you mind me asking how old you both are? Well, I just turned 46 and 40.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

You're wait, you're 40? I just turned 40.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Oh, you're like me and my sis, because Danielle and I have seven years apart. You guys are six years apart. Okay. And then who's the third sibling?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Our brother is in between us, like equally in between us. So we have a brother in the middle.

unknown 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Wait, does he have a few left out? I think so. Yeah. I I think, and he the dynamic of like a boy in our family, he was the only boy we grew up with four girl cousins. And so uh, I don't it it very it's a different dynamic for sure. So I I would say with full confidence, there's certain parts that have been left out. When I was younger, I was like more closer to my my brother, and like we would play and we would do all these bunch of stuff, and then um I was definitely like the annoying little sister that always wanted to be like, Hey Angie, what are you doing? Like when you're with Wendy, and like, what are you guys doing? Like, can I play? And she'd be like, No, man, it go away. And but I think like that actually is like the good thing about us. The reason why we work is because there is that bigger age gap. We were never in competition with each other, we were never rivals. Like when Ange graduated high school, I went into high school. So I always had my brother with me in high school and in schools, but like not with Ange. And then eventually Ange started to hang out with my friends as we got older, and like we kind of are in each other's lives in many different ways.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Okay. This is why I wanted to talk to you both because I'm endlessly fascinated with running a business with your sister and how much time you spend together outside of that business. And I know your family is close, your extended family. So, like, I have so many questions. But first, what were you like as little kids?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

I was very responsible. I think I always listened or tried to be the perfect child in some ways. But the biggest thing, like, especially with one of my friends, and then where Amanda would come in, we played store. I remember having like multiple businesses, and like technically we played having it all. Like you have your family, you have your playing store and dress up and and things like that. That would be my fondest memory when I was younger. And it's funny because now I'm doing it now, minus the latter part of having like my own personal family, but that will come. But yeah, I think I for me, I was just like very much the helper of everything when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

What about you, Amanda?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

I remember when we played with Barbies, we'd always take apart what they came with and like made a new outfit for them. Like, we never liked what they came with. We're like, let's do this. I remember doing that. My mom was like very like she she had style and she would go boutique shopping. And I remember her bringing us along and like us just playing in the corner and behind all of the racks of clothes, and we were just there. But I was like the black sheep of the family. I kind of stirred the pot. I didn't do what I was told. I kind of went to my own beat, and if they told me no, I would figure out a way to do it anyway. That was me. I think I was able to do that because Ange was older, and so she kind of was like, Yeah, like, well, yeah, go ahead. Like, I kind of would look to fur for her approval, and if she like didn't kind of say no, then I just kept on going, you know. We come from a very traditional Italian family. My dad came here with nothing and built up his life and with his brother, and we also saw my dad and my uncle working together in their lives, very integrated with it within each other, and it worked in their own weird way. So, like, that's kind of what we were always exposed to is being your own boss. We had the privilege of having our mom at home that like after school, we we had a mom to go to, food was already on the table. She took care of us so well. So I feel like that was kind of our dynamic. I but I I just stirred shit up when I got older for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

I love that Ange was the responsible one. You're like, I'm gonna stir the pot, and then you combine that energy to create Vincent Boutique, which is like you need a bit of both, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

And that's why it works because we are like, as much as we we're very different, but we're also very aligned in all of our values. So there's an unspoken thing, kind of like where we wanted Vincent to go or how we want it to go. And yeah, we are sisters, and I I I know people are like, Oh, I couldn't do it with my sister. Of course, like not everyone could have a business with their sister, but Angela and I, we've always said this, we've always known how to fight. And then it could be a massive fight, and then three hours later, like, so what are we doing tonight? You know, it would be like, so what do you want to watch? What do you, what do you, what are we doing? You know, and it's not that we're sweeping it under the rug, it's just it's like we had our, we had it, we move on, kind of thing. Let's let's keep going, you know? I think that I can it right, Cupid. Also for me, being older, there's certain periods of our lives that I mean, right now, not that it's clashing in any way, like I'm going through whatever I'm going through within Perimenopause in life and just different challenges that Amanda being, you know, a little younger, you could see the the dis like the gap a bit, but but then at the same time, because society is becoming a bit more closer, you you all understand, which is a good and comforting thing in some ways, but we're talking about perimenopause more as as a whole, yeah. Agree. I wish like five years ago it was a bit more talked about so that I felt like okay, I'm not going crazy. But I just what I meant was in my mind I can see the the age gap a bit differently, like not in a negative way or anything like that. It's just like, oh wow, like I'm experiencing this, and you're still experiencing that, you know, kind of thing. Whereas like truly, she's my best friend of always and so for me, it's just a blessing that I get to work with my sister and something that we both creatively because we were always creative, we always made jewelry. We were the type of girls that, like, mom, can we go to Sassy Bead and get, you know, always supported a lot of money, always supported by mom. But Mamel was like down for it, like, okay, sure, like, you know, whatever. And we would come back and we would either mimic something we saw or we would come up with something that we liked. And so we always were in something artsy or going shopping with my mom. Like, obviously, like she definitely created two little pictures of like, you know, I remember our first family trip and going to Italy. We went to this one boutique close to our home, and like she made us get our sets, and we were all prim and proper, and you know, and it was just I remember time vividly and the outfits, like, and I we kept those outfits because they were a spree, and we just felt like very cool, I guess, you know. And yeah, so we were and we were always around like now that you're asking the question is like even like the timeline, like we also had like a family friend that was our neighbor, and they had a tailor shop, and then they went into uh like a clothing boutique, and we spent so much time there helping, either it's learning how to sew or just learning customer service, helping on their summer sales and being the extra person to bag things or whatever. We owe a lot to that time in our lives, not knowing what was going to happen, but it was definitely the foundation of certain things that we saw for what it is now.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

You were surrounded by entrepreneurship and your creativity was fostered. What a lovely way to throw up. Okay, take me back to two years before Vincent opened. What were you both doing?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Um, I'm working at Michael Coors. So I was yeah, so uh I'm still doing makeup. So I retired uh as a makeup artist at the present moment, but my whole background was a makeup. So I was in both morale, so I was working for Bobby Brown at the time, and I was working at Morale, which was an offshoot um boutique of shoppers, and then I also worked at Michael Kors at the time. We had the discussion that we were wanting to plan to do something like this. So then my nature was like, okay, so I'm gonna continue to work and I'm gonna continue to save and I'm gonna try to save as much as um I can.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

And you'd had the conversation about opening something like Vincent, like a couple of years before you did.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

I don't know if we like it. I really don't know if it was it we did have that conversation until I was in Toronto, right? Like, remember when I don't know, I know Amanda was in Toronto, but I remember that it was just like, okay, no, I don't want to like continue these jobs anymore. And it kind of was starting not to really want to be in the makeup world because of all the changes, and I was just getting tired of doing weddings and I admire everybody that's in it right now. But for me, it was just like okay, I wanted something different and challenging. And I do remember a discussion that Amanda was in Toronto, it was a very brief one, but we were just like kind of trying to say, like, what are I know exactly when it happened?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, tell us. And wait, I also, Amanda, want to know where you were like two years before Vincent opened stores.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Well, I'll start with where I was in Toronto because it is it precedes everything else. Because my to my dad, I was like a crazy person, but really, if you look at it, I was building myself up and I was building my skills to open a store. So I was in Toronto, I was working at Winter's Head Office in 2008, and I was an allocation analyst, but I ended up getting laid off in 2008 during the whole economic down, which was a total blessing. It wasn't even in disguise because I remember being like, Where do I sign? And it's so funny because I was like in a cubicle. I was in that corporate world where at first, when I got there, I was like, I'm gonna be a buyer, I'm gonna love this. You're in Toronto, you're feeling all that energy. You're like, yeah, let's go do this. But then, like, slowly but surely, like my soul started to like get crumbly. I would look out the window, I'm like, I need to go for a run. Like, this is what's happening here. And we would have the same, like, knock to down it, down that place that was an incredible. I met some of my best friends from those places, like from that job and from that time in my life. And like, you just did the same thing monotonously. Like Monday, you'd have the exact same meeting. Wednesday you'd have the same meeting. So it kind of like didn't. There's a point to my story. So then what happened because I got laid off, they gave you a severance and they were like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna bridge you with this company called Mike's Bridge, and they kind of help people like with like resumes and try to get you back up and running to find another job. At this point, I was like 22 and I'm a go-getter, and I'm like, yeah, let me use this place as like much as I can. So in a past life, I I did linguistics in university, so I made two resumes, one for for for like linguistics and then one for fashion. But then they also had courses, and so they had courses basically to like see, and one of them was an entrepreneurship one. And so I went to it and they described what an entrepreneur would be and all that kind of stuff. And I remember coming back from that course completely inspired, being like, This is obviously who I am, and like I remember writing down all the ideas until four o'clock in the morning after one of our conversations, and I was like, This is this is what we're gonna do. So then I ended up moving home. I ended up I got a job at Aritzia, came home, worked for Aritzia for a year because that's how long my soul survived. And then after working at Aritzia, I'm like, this is time, this is not how it's supposed to be, this is not what fashion is. I have to make my own. So I enrolled in Algonquin College and I graduated in April. We opened the store that year in November, but we got we knew what we were starting in June. So wait, you graduated from Algonquin in April. What was the program you did? The entrepreneurship, the business management and entrepreneurship. So you literally like a business plan. So, like that second year, you had like a 60-page business plan, and it was literally on Vincent. That's where we came up with the concept. And at the time, Amanda was dating Frankie, and Anto, who had the wedding dress store in this location. She goes to Amanda and says, you know, I am thinking of leaving. Would you know anyone who would be interested in taking over the spot?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

So, Amanda, your sister-in-law is like, I'm gonna get out of the business and I'm in or I'm gonna move locations. Yes, uh, do you know anybody?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

So, like, yeah, she was pregnant, right? She was ready to close the store and move on and concentrate on her family. So she knew at that point I was already in Algonquin. I was already like talking about it, and she already knew what the whole point of my like purpose was. And so she's like, Do you know what I mean? I'm like, Yes, we'll take it. And it was one of those like moments where I left one day and I was like, Yep, that's gonna definitely be our spot, and it's gonna be our store. And it all happened like within time, like timing is everything, it always has been, and it really did happen within a really beautiful timeline in our life. And I think like I was 28 when we opened the store, so Angela's like, I don't know, I think 34 or something. Yeah, 35. And so it was like just it just happened. So it was kind of not that it was like handed to us, it just the opportunity arise, and it was one of those things that it's like, do you do it now? Okay, we didn't think it was gonna happen so fast, but like, sure, okay, fine. It wasn't a good time to open a store econom like economically was horrible. It was either a really stupid idea or a really good one. And so we're just like, okay, well, this is the opportunity. The fear of not doing it outweighed the fear of doing it, and so we did it. And we're 12 years in. And, you know, I I love that we're 12 years in and we have like the whole entire building now. It's like it's all ours. And like we laugh for the first like few months that we had upstairs. I like would constantly look at Ange and we'd be working. I'm like, but like, how did we do it before we had this space? Like we had like an open door policy, like clearly, we would from our desk downstairs be running a store or be doing it from home or just like disaster. So this space is like beautiful, it feels really good to be in, it's good energy. And like now we use it for our office, but we also use it for an event space, so people rent it from us and hold events in here, and then we also use it as like activations for the store.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

So an activation.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

We'll have like a trunk show up here, or we'll have like eventually in June, we are gonna start dipping into men's, so we'll start kind of having it start living in a place.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, Amanda, you had a you had a child in the middle of this. I had her in COVID, so she July 2020, like right in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

And we were really fortunate enough that like at that point I we didn't have to deal with the hospitals or I got I gave birth at the birth center and we had a a a beautiful birth, and look, my family was outside eating drinking espresso and having a picnic while I was laboring. But yeah, like honestly, Penelope is a a blessing. She is the light of our lives and she's incredible. But I don't know having a child outside of COVID. Right. So it I wouldn't have been able to do that first year or two without my friends that were there, a text away, a call away to be like, what is this? But I think it was a blessing that it was in COVID because I was able to be home with her and she was still like it was okay that our buying was, you know, grounded. So we were doing it virtually. So literally I gave birth with the next day. We were we had a we had a call. So like she no, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

The day after you gave birth, you had a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

But at the birth center, like let's be serious. She was born what at 11 at 10 56. I was home by three o'clock. Like you you don't stay.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

But but you took a work call, but just like leading, you know, I don't know. Like small no judgment. I just want to highlight that that is small business ownership.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Like, what else are you gonna do? Who else? I don't know. I there was no other choice, right? Right. If I technically was able to stay home with her a lot longer, I was able to work more virtually, which was perfect, but like you know, every nap she was napping, I was working, and my daughter didn't like to sleep like a lot of kids. So I was trying, you know, you just did what you had to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

You didn't take any time off, like a month or two, or no. No. Is that is that an Italian thing? I feel like Italians are very hard workers. Am I getting this right or wrong?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yeah, like my dad is crazy. He's he probably works he works so hard still, like, and I don't I just think like he just he just knows that. Like and that's like in your DNA, yeah. It's like it's funny because like we kind of have to like tell ourselves to stop working, but it's also because like we created our own business, we obviously loved it, we also like to be here, we love our business, so it's very hard to like not want to work, but since having Penelope, I don't feel bad when I have to leave because I have I have fur.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Like you know, I it's a hard close for me, you know. In the 12 years since you've opened Vincent, what's the longest amount of time either of you have taken off consecutively? I would say Amanda's honeymoon.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Oh yeah, I milk that.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yeah, we went for like three weeks. It was good. How many? Three weeks. Nice. That's the longest. Okay, and what's the longest you've taken off? A week.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I don't like it's not for anything. I think it was just like if three weeks happen now, then I will take it. Like, I mean, I just I'm a bit more like if opportunity's there, I will take it. I won't go and force it or and I'm not saying that I'm in a date, I'm just saying that like it right now, it just hasn't been where I'm like, I'm taking three weeks off. Do I sometimes like right now set how my body's feeling and everything? I'm like, yeah, I want to take three weeks off, do absolutely no work, and like get back into shape or whatever, figure out that part of what's happening with myself internally, but I don't want to say that it's not in the cards, it's also not in my DNA. Like it's like do unfortunately, I don't, I still haven't worked out my kinks of like work life balance. So that's just probably I'm not gonna in the beginning. I I probably put that that sort of negative or or what's that word called? Not resistance, but see, there you go. I blame it on anything on that, but anyway, I just I just feel like I I it's easier to always like to work than it is for you to like make room for something else.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

It's very easy for you to do that.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Okay, let's dig into this. I'm fascinated. Some of this out. Amanda, do you ever are you ever like and you need to take a week? Is this how is this how Angie ends up taking time?

SPEAKER_02 26:06

No, because so like reminder, I'm the younger sister, so sometimes I feel like she doesn't listen to me on purpose because I'm the younger sister. Do you know what I mean? Like, if I were to say that to her, like if even if I've told her, like, yeah, you don't have to come in tomorrow, she's like, yeah, okay. Like, she it has to be her idea. Angie, it's it's on her, it's on her time, it's on yeah, it needs to be her idea, it can't be mine. And so I just know that of my sister, so like I just don't touch it with the 10-foot pole. Like, yeah, she she wants to go away, we will make it work, we'll build it in and we'll figure it out, like, especially now. And like, if that if she has the desire to do two weeks off, like I'd love to see you try it. I would love to see you try it. But, you know, I think we're in a different place in our business in year 12 than we did ever. But I think for Anne's, like, she just needs like a real good reason, like she needs to, like, you know, either like sign up for something that's like really interesting, that she's like, I just need to get this done. I really have feel called to do it. You know what I mean? I think that's kind of something for her. Right. But yeah, you don't tell Ann what to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

I love this. And can you tell Amanda what to do? I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

But I don't like micromanaging, you know. We have like, yeah, I could I could be a little bit bossy for sure. The thing is, is that I like being micromanaged, and I don't like one thing about me is that I actually like being micromanaged because I love like the acknowledgement of when it's done. Like, I know when I can get shit done. You tell me I'll do it, but like I'll tell you that I got it done, so you can say good job. Like, it's always been like that. I know you're like, look what I did, I got it, it's done, it's ticked off. Yeah, what else do you need? Like, you mean like what else do you want me to do? That's that's how I am because I could do things fast, but anyways, I also probably have ADHD that's undiagnosed, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

So is that I want I I know I know this story, but I want a reminder. Where did you come up with the name Vincent?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Jimmy or me. It doesn't matter. I mean, so it wins our late uncle's name from my mom's side. We never met him, but he was someone who my grandmother constantly always talked about, reminisced, and reminisced on a lot of his talents. He was an amazing painter, he wrote songs, poems. Like he was just, he had this like love for a lot of things in the arts. And on my mom's side of family, and a little bit on my dad's, there's a lot of artistry there. Like that, and my mom thinks that she doesn't have a talent, but she's a very good cook. So she really has to really understand that like cooking is part of like an artist to like let go, but uh it was more in painting and in drawing, and so my sister's also very good in painting and drawing. So in the end, that long story, we were sitting at in our couch and we were just going running through names, and we just felt like the the name Vincent just felt really strong and confident and still had a soft side to it. And then equally, if we were to get into men's or grow the business however direction it would go, it would be a name that could follow quite well.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

That's really beautiful. Take me back to Amanda graduates from Algonquin in April. The store opens in November. Between April and November, how did you decide what brands to carry? How did you create those relationships for the brands to send you the stock that you needed? How did you know how to like outfit the store? Tell me it all.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

So we really bootstrapped everything. I think our dad gave us a little bit of money for the inventory. He was scared, but he also knew he knew what he was doing and he gave it to us or own money. So we put money in for the stock. I think we probably started off with like $32,000 worth of cost inventory. What we didn't, what we we it was a lot of imposter syndrome. So in the business plan, we already had the brands that we wanted to, because like Ange was on in the writing of the business plan. So like I did it for school, but she was in on the full plan of it all. We always named so like at that point, what the whole reason why Vincent exists is because we want to carry brands that nobody else has and that we couldn't find. So it was a part of that. So Frank Nileen was like our first. We've had it since the beginning. Monroe, I remember being on the phone with Monroe and being like, Oh, yeah, these are the other brands that we're gonna carry. And like, you just like literally have to talk the talk and pretend. But I remember walking into certain buying meetings and being like, Okay, yeah, like we knew nothing, right? Like we we didn't have anything to compare it to. We knew nothing. Um, we didn't know how much we needed to like make anything, and like at that point, we turned the store over in one month, so we got our keys in October. We we just kind of like kept it kind of the same, but not because we didn't want to spend money in a store design that we didn't know was gonna work for us because we've never had a store yet in this space, so we spent little like the the my dad helped with the renovations, like you know what you mean, like those things that's what we did, and we kind of like pieced it together. Ange and I both worked our other jobs for three years while the store was running, yeah. We would we would switch off, and I remember when Ange left me for the first time. She's like, Okay, I'm gonna go to work now. Like, but you trust me to be in this space by myself? Like, I was nervous. I remember like your your what do you mean? Like, so yeah, we we paid ourselves through those other jobs and we kept all the money in the business. We we sacrificed, we told friends we couldn't go to their bachelorette parties. I lived at home, so I got to be fed by my mother, thank God. And you know, and but that's the only way that we could have like got it up, like when I see the numbers of what we did first month to what we do now, it's just like it's a beautiful thing to see that type of growth, you know. Our background too, we both worked in Fort Renfrew. So we were exposed at a very young age at different brands that we knew that the city sort of did well with, or knew a lot. We a lot of the customer relations really built from our experience from Fort Renfrew. We we met our best friends there and we also met our best clients there and who still support us today. And so those relationships grew then, and then equally the brands that we sort of wanted to sort of represent in the city. I think, like looking back, I mean, yes, we were very, very naive and we did maybe numerous, obviously, mistakes, truly, but um we said yes to everything we were really open to learn, and we were really open to like figure it out because I also believe that in our verts of a hurts, this is what we're meant to do, and have this as a platform to reach a lot of things, women in in this community and in the city type of thing. We just want to continue to do more and and reach like a lot of more goals of it. Ottawa's very, very hard sometimes when it comes into fashion or the perception of fashion and and and things like that. And I saw that sort of challenge within Holt Runfrew as well, because you know, everybody's looking for your that unique piece and doesn't want to really feel like you know, X, Y, and Z are wearing the exact same thing, or but yeah, we were like babies. I know we spent the most out of that time, that first thing we spent the most money on our window display. That's what we spent the most $500. Yeah, yeah. And it was like a ballerina coming out of like something, I forget a jewelry box. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah. Do you remember? Do you sorry? Do you remember your first customer? Like, do you remember that person that the one you didn't know, not a friend that was coming in, but the one that was in like my family? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Ooh, that's uh I I don't really remember. Remember, actually, yes, I do. I do. It's Larissa. The reason it was Larissa is because when we sort of put signs on the window, and we I think we listed the brands, and I think she had emails or something of some sort of like, oh, you're getting DL 1961, and um it was a specific brand or whatever, and we're like, yes, like in all and all. So I feel I think the first correspondence of like the excitement and everything was with Larissa that I remember the mo the vividly out of all of it. But then I think the one thing that I do remember when we first opened, it was a lot of women saying, Oh, my son's name's Vincent, or my husband, or like a lot of people felt like they really they they they felt they they really love like obviously love the name, but and they gave us the reason why. I feel like that's what I remember the most opening.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

That's so sweet. Amanda, what do you remember the most of opening? Ember, we didn't have a lot of inventory. I remember what this is really low.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Like this is not like this is I don't know. I just remember constantly learning, constantly changing, constantly questioning. And that not that actually hasn't changed. That's exactly what we do every single day. I just remember it being very slow. I think we had a lot of room and time to be more creative with our time because we didn't have as many customers coming through the door. So that's shifted a lot. Yeah, like it just it was just a scary time, right? You had nothing to base yourself off of, you know, you never had you didn't have numbers to be like, oh, is this good? Like we thought everything was good, like it and maybe there that naivety was like probably really great for us. But I remember like I just I'm like the numbers girl behind, so like I just remember that part.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

When's the first time you felt like we might make it year five, probably?

SPEAKER_02 37:10

I think it's after we did the pop-ups, those were probably the smartest things that we ever did. We uh we did two or three pop. Well, we did three pop-ups in total, two with Dia, and those were such a great time. Dia's like a dear friend of ours from Waltz, and she owns luxury consignment from well, foul mode, and she's doing really well for herself. But I remember when we had our first event in the store, and I just remember it. And then so then we did two pop-ups, one in Beachwood was our first one, and that was a really great opportunity. And then we met like still amazing customers from that, and that was kind of our marketing, right? It's just like opening two stores to see, not because we wanted to be in two different places, it's just because we wanted to reach a different demographic. Because, in all honesty, people don't come to Preston Street to buy clothes, they come here to eat. So we always say like we feed you in a different way, right? Like it's not necessary, you don't look for a clothing store here, right? So when when we 2017 was like a really big growth year, that was uh I don't I don't know if that's year five. Is that year five? 2017 was our big growth year. 13. So we had done two pop-ups when that we were crazy, we were crazy. Yeah, that's when we had like a lot more energy and a lot more time, and we just said yes to everything. I think that like I do remember even when we first opened in 13 was like it was an awkward time, only because now looking back, that time November is holiday and resort. So we didn't really have when we went out buying in the summer, we didn't have the so much privy of like the season of fall, like kind of thing, because we were kind of opening at the end of fall and and beginning a new one. So then you're kind of like I do remember when we did our first buying trip in New York and we went to Coterie and we we did buy a lot. Um, they get suckered in because everything is there, and then everything gets like so you look at everything and everything looks the same, and you're exhausted, and and then you have all these orders in your hand, and you're like, oh my god, and it's pre-ordering most of the time, but you're committed to those orders, especially if you put your signature on it. So you're like, Oh my goodness, we signed like so many orders, and do we actually have the the money to do this? We usually set certain goals year after year, and we try to move the needle that way. And some brands go, some brands stay, some grow more one year, one grows less, like to kind of spread out a little bit of those funds, kind of thing. But you know, we really, really try to keep a very tight line as far as when it comes to inventory and cash flow and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So what is your favorite season to buy for?

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Well, I think for me. I think I like buying spring and summer, and I even though like those are like funny seasons to buy for, they're always that's I think when the fun pieces come. That's when like all the the character starts building, you know? It's main character energy, I think. But I do love I am, it's funny that I say that just because and any given day you'll always see me in a sweater and a jeans, sweater, and denim. Like that is just like my uniform. Um but in summer it just it just sounds so free.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Just it's like and it's always a year ahead that you buy, right? Like you buy months, yeah. So we're just finishing fall 2026. Okay, right. Like, yeah, yeah. Looking back over 12 years, hardest year. Year three, I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I don't know why, but it that just tells me something. Year year three, year really. Yeah, actually, no, last year. I probably last year. I think last year, out of all the 12 years, out of all of COVID, everything last year. Last year was that absolutely, I agree with that. Hands down, finally what happened? So so many things. Just in a sense, it was the reason why it was because the tariffs, number one, so things physically like actually attacks the business from a logistical standpoint, right? And what happened there is that uh we see that you you end up looking at your business in a very different way because half of we have let's say 30 brands, half of our brands are American. So when you're buying American, we buy them because of like you know, the quality, the the fact that they're like sustainably made. There's many different reasons as to why we buy them. But when the tariffs happened and all this talk with US, basically like support Canada, kind of like don't buy US. Yes, okay. It's changed the buyer behavior. And so buyer behavior from last year has not been as predictable as it has been before. So when you're buying six months in advance, you obviously don't know that's gonna happen in February, March, or when you're about to drop your first, your, your actual new season, right? So you've already bought those clothes, you've already had those decisions made six months prior. So when something so critical happens in the economy, you like there's not much wiggle room there. There's not much you can do. So you we just noticed how customers' behavior was, how what they thought, and all that kind of stuff, which were which in a way are all valid, but there's only so much you can do in season.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Already had it all bought, and you're a local Canadian business. You just yeah, you happen to be carrying these brands from the states that you've had forever, you've built up demand for, you've worked really hard to like educate people on these brands, like Frank and Eileen. Yeah. And it's not like you're dealing with brands who are terrible, you're dealing with that was fan.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

It's like, okay, this is happening out of our control. We we base our bias based on the criteria of sustainability. How are they doing for the planet? How are they are they women? Like all these things matter to us. And what was sad is like Like one day it's all good and that's beautiful and that's what you want. And then the next day it shifts, and you're just like, that's not what you're all of a sudden you're avoiding it, but we know you still like it. Like I know you still like it because nobody else does it. And in general, last year was just very unpredictable. So to be honest, owning a business or buying clothes, or and if it's in the states, or if it's in Europe, or if it's in Canada, in Canada, we have distributors. Distributors are in Canadian dollars. They do represent European brands, they represent some Canadian brands, and they represent US brands. So half of our selection was from a Canadian distributor. So I'm supporting the Canadian economy by buying it in my dollar. So when they would, when it was, and it was just discouraging, like to be honest and fair, like you would have in an hour two people come in and it was a 50-50 split. You'd have 50% of that what that one person say, I'm not buying any American brands because this and this and this, because they felt that that's what the way that they would be heard, and then also help the situation. But then you have someone walk in and say, I don't care. So, and we import two brands out of the US. So we import Frank and Eileen and Emerson Fry. So when you had her, when you would hear both sides, one doesn't care, one does care, and we import more. But I'm just saying, like in general, those were the biggest brands. Okay. But it was just sometimes you left work feeling so discouraged because it felt like a reflection of you. And it's just like I have no control. I'm just trying to do what we did kind of last year based on what you were missing, or this or that. We tried to bring it in and kind of fill your closet in a different way. So I think that it was just a lot of people didn't really understand a lot of how the cycle of our business is, and we support Canadian brands. We do, but not all of them are made in Canada. And if they are, they are quite pricey. But then, like further that their fabric is not from Canada. We don't have cotton farms, we do not have half of the things that make the like clothing. So for me, it was like starting to get a little bit like, okay, I just don't understand anymore.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

And it's so interesting to hear your perspective about how that shift in in by Canadian, like elbows up, all that stuff, which I know the two of you were like, absolutely support Canada. It you'd already had these businesses, this relationship built up. And the person that owns these businesses are not necessarily this terrible person, right? And you have the products. Not even like in the moment, you could be like, I'm sorry, we have to pause this relationship for a year because also the tariffs, I'm sure, made everything so much more expensive to buy, because you'd already had that deal signed, and then to go home and almost feel it like it was an like a judgment on Angela Manda and your belief system that had to be really difficult. I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Thank God, you know, at that point, we actually had already shifted our our taste to like Paris. And so I think we just put our attention on what was working instead of not what wasn't working. So there's like you know, shit happens to you. You're yeah, and I think, you know, one of my things that I don't like about entrepreneurship is that it's glorified. It's like, oh, become an entrepreneur, you know. You can work for yourself. It's so beautiful. Like it's I don't know an entrepreneur that like was like, I just want to be an entrepreneur. Do you just like the word? I don't know. Like we felt compelled to solve a problem that we saw, and we thought that we were the ones that are going to fix it. Like, that is what an entrepreneur is: someone who sees a problem, sees a gap, and fixes the gap. And that's that's how I see us. And I think in that moment, it it got us scrappy again. You know what I mean? It it made us look at our business in a completely different light. We ended up basically tipping, like flipping our business by the end of the year on its head and redid it all. And we want to be one of those businesses that are here for a very long time. We've always wanted high aspirational goals, but like we knew we couldn't do it when we wanted to do it because we weren't ready. And so we were very like, we do this on our own, we don't take loans, we have our cash flow, it is ours, our own, and it's only us. It's me and but going back to like having something like that happen, it just m allows you to take a step back and be like, okay, this is not happening to me, it's happening for me. What are we gonna do? And that's literally how we shifted our business. It it kind of got me back to day one. It it was like, okay, I have a little bit more space in my bandwidth to figure this out, and yeah, let's do it. And and so I feel like opening 2026 the way we are right now is very exciting for us because we've done so much work to get to where we are right now. And it also taught me like diversify our portfolio. Don't have so many American brands. What is out there? What else is out there? What else can we see? And that doesn't mean I'm going straight to Canadian, right? I know that might ruffle some feathers there, but Victor does that really well. I'm not going to step on that. Like, yeah, that is theirs. I don't want to work in that type of uh buyers or boutique or starting this. Like we always wanted to have a different voice, a different roster, a different things. Yes, there's some things that would overlap here and there, but we're really ones to really kind of try to stay in our own lane.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

I love that you talk about how you almost have to go back to first year energy because I can so relate to first year business energy. And I don't know where it comes from. It's almost like a tap turns on and it's like endless. Yeah. And there's such excitement and momentum in that. And so it's really cool to know 12 years in that you can turn the tap on to first year energy. Isn't it it?

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Like first year energy is the best energy, you know? Like it's yeah, uh naivety to it that you're just like, I don't know. Will this work? Like you love that that game that we play. Like at the end of the day, like we love our business, we love the game we play with clothes, whether it works or it doesn't. If we buy too little or buy too much, that's essentially what we do. But the fundamentals of our business is seeing these women and seeing what they're saying. And like one of the things that I loved what we did last year is that we closed the year off by giving our customers a questionnaire. And like getting those answers were really great because, like, you know, some people that haven't been in told us why they haven't been in. And it's just like, yeah, I get it. Like, okay, I can see that. You know, it's not that, and like Ange said, like, you know, it's hard to take things personally because like we are owners and operators. We are not like we know every customer that walks in the door, we know like your family, we know what's happening in your life, and I think we take pride in that. Ange is like hands down, gives the best customer service you could ever receive. And that's one of our things that we pride on ourselves with because honestly, like it's that connection. I don't solve the world's problems, I don't know about politics, I know the world's up and shit. But you know what I know is that when someone walks through the door and Vince, they're gonna make we're gonna make sure they feel seen. And that's it. That's all I have to do. That's my job, you know, like is to make sure that they feel good, that they feel comfortable in their clothes, that what they're putting on is what's gonna take them in the world to whatever they do. You know what you mean? Like my job isn't to know I can't fix everything, and but I know what lane I'm in, and I'll I'll stay there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:26

So what is the well, I guess you already told me, but I'm gonna ask you anyway, because maybe there's something else. What are what's the future plan for Vincent?

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Well, right now we're gonna be approaching, we so back to the little men's tibet. We are going to explore um men's a little. So that's gonna launch May, June, more for Father's Day. We're gonna sort of do it as a seasonal thing, maybe at right that right now, just so that we can get our bearings. We know and hear it a lot. Like, and the funny part is is that I wish that I could solve every single problem. Like, you know, we do need a good shoe store. We do need, like, you know, a place where you know, denim is or occasion dresses or things like that, but I can't please everybody and I can't do it all because it does take an investment. We are investing when we buy these pieces or pick these pieces prior, it's an investment that we edit the whole season with the brands that we see, with everything. So I think it's just trying to find those like cool eclectic brands that are a little different from what we've been um bringing in or along the way. But yeah, men's is gonna be the first thing right now.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Is there a line that's coming? Not necessarily men's, but men's or women's or unisex that you're so excited to see how it does, or equally so nervous.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

There's two that I come to mind. Secular is one of the ones that I'm very excited about. It's a it's kind of like an offshoot of Legence. I don't know if you know about a brand called Legence, but anyways, it's a brand. So secular is just like this beautiful, they make beautiful blouses. It's really hard to find a top. It's really hard to find really nice blouses that have personality that are not like that just are different. And so secular is like I'm really excited for secular. And then Mirth, which is a brand that we've been watching for a very long time, and we're just like, okay, I think, I think we can. We always kind of risk one brand a year. Um, it's kind of like been our thing that we do every year. We risk one new brand, whether or not we're it's gonna work or not, and we try to test it out. But it's it's uh it's made by two, it's two sisters who all of their clothes ethically made in in India, and they do like these like awesome practices that are just super cool that you don't really that isn't done anymore. So we're bringing that in. And and it's you couldn't imagine like if Emerson Fry kind of had a baby with like who else? I don't know, it's just it's a beautiful brand. It's like they both get elevated India, like Emerson Fry is like the India collection that is also equally made in India and organically made and all of that. Um if it's just an elevated version of that, I think it's a little bit more sophisticated. She has a little bit more rendered out uh pieces that um whereas Emerson Fry still love tried and true, like come like the first heat wave you're putting on Emerson Fry. Like it's just that's the that's the thing. But Murph is just a little bit more feminine and it's like Trovata, which we don't carry really anymore. But if Emerson and Trovata had a baby, it would be Murph. I think that would be the two brands that is in that lane.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Yeah, when are they coming? So we can all go look at them and try them on one. I think April May, April for sure will be the Do you still get just as excited unpacking the boxes?

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Yeah, because you forget, you forget. There's some there's some pieces that you like, you're like waiting when is it coming? Like I'm waiting for you to come, but then like you kind of forget because literally once you like finish buying, you kind of shut your brain off and then you go to the next buy. And like we're constantly buying. Like now they're probably gonna start asking, like knocking on the door for holiday, and we're just gonna be like, okay, like let's go holiday. The hard part about our business is that we're constantly living in two seasons, like you know, we're about to be in spring, we're receiving all our spring goods, but then we're buying for fall. We're still our brain is in fall, and so once you hand in those orders, then you're on to the next. So it's kind of yeah, I get excited. Yeah, I love new product.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Yeah. I love watching you two unbox a product and hang it and try it on and talk about it. Also, before we hop off, because I know I could talk to you forever and hang out, but eventually I'll say goodbye. But before you hop off, I've been really noticing your social media has shifted. And number one, it feels very, it feels now. I'm like, oh, this makes sense as you talk about first year energy. Because I'm like, there was something I was noticing this shift in the two of you virtually because I hadn't seen you in person in a bit. And I just want to let you know, I see it, I notice it. There's something you're doing, and it's this fresh energy coming across. And I love that you're sharing a bit of behind the scenes of setting up your Shopify store. You're sharing the behind the scenes of the clothing rack and you're showing the pieces. You've always done stuff like that, but the cleaning out your closet and the Penelope was like kind of darting in and out. And I just, I love to see, and why I wanted to talk to you, besides I adore you both. I love to see a story behind the store or the brand, the business, the person, because it's it makes me feel more connected and it reminds people that, like, yes, I know we're support Canadian, but Angie and Amanda are Canadian and Vincent Fatigue is Canadian. And, you know, it's nice to know who you're supporting, and it's nice to know there's a real human behind there and what that human's actually trying to do for you. And it's like, we're trying to just stay in our lane. We're not trying to say we know all this stuff about what's going on in the world. Yes, we're aware, and yes, we want the best for everyone, and we don't want it to be the shitstorm that it is. Here's what I can do with my day. I can find something that's gonna hopefully make you feel good, feel confident, feel comfortable, feel like yourself in your ever-changing body and in this ever-changing world. So I wanted to say, I see what you're doing. It's really beautiful. I know how much energy it takes, but it it feels like it's coming from a tap that's turned on, which is ugly, it's refreshing.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Yeah, thanks for saying that. It's kind of, but it's it's hard because I think Ange and I, like we the the creative ideas are always there. They're always there, just the timing of when it goes. And I al we always say, like, we, yeah, okay, we sell clothes, but it's a byproduct of what we do. We don't, it's not really what we do, right? Like it, it's there. People come to us because they buy clothes, but like we said it from day one. You come for the clothing, but you stay for the conversation. The things that we talk about in the store are not vain at all. Everybody talks about what they're going through, how they're like, you know what I mean? We've been there through so many things with so many of our customers, and like we we've been there, you know, and it's just I think fashion kind of gets us like bad rep that's like, oh, it's vain. It's like a vain thing to do. Like, yes, it's frivolous. Yes, okay, we carry higher end brands that are not within everybody's like wheelhouse, but like I feel like we're definitely a place where you can go to and you can like work yourself up to and still find your your style and yourself in it, right? And like be okay. Like we always we never wanted it to be a space, like it's hard sometimes, it's intimidating to go into a boutique. It's small, there's someone right there, they're looking at you. Like, you're like, it could be a very like weird dynamic because you're just like, Oh, what they're gonna judge me. Like, I've women have all these things, but like in our store, that's kind of not what happens. It's very welcoming, it's very inclusive in the sense of like, yeah, we want to help you, we want you to be you and and to elevate you, you know what I mean? Like, it's not we're not judging you, like it's just it's not what we're doing. So I've always wanted our social media about like I have a love-hate for social media, and I think it's all uh a facade, but it is a way for us to talk to our customers, and I've always wanted to really talk about more of like what we actually talk about in the store, instead of just being like, this is what came in new. You know what I mean? I I always have like this like part of me that's like, no, like this is actually what we're all going through, you know, and so this upstairs space is what is gonna do that, right? Like we can tap into that. We're creating a a perimenopause type style your body upstairs with Sarah Vaboncœur. And like, you know, that it like gave me like kind of you know, that like feeling of day one, right? Like it's like this is this is what people need, like, you know, Angie's going through it, she understands, like, we're women, our bodies change. I had a baby, like now I understand when people are like, oh yeah, I can't wear that. Like, I get it. Like we we get it. So we we want we're changing with our customers. Do you know what I mean? It's like we're not from we're not the same store from day one, you know, where it's constantly evolving and we want to serve our community of our women in a safe space so that they could feel seen, supported, and confident, you know? Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

I've had many a cup of espresso in your store, just chatting with the two of you. So I can attest to the feeling that you're trying to create and you do create it. And like you said, the price point is higher, so it might be not so approachable to some people, but when you walk in, it doesn't feel like you have to buy everything you try on. And if it's something that you're like, I need something special for this, it's such a nice place to go to try it on, to see how it fits, to ask the questions, and then maybe you want to invest in that piece for yourself and know that when you buy your Frank and Eiley, you will wear it in a podcast 10 years later with the two people that made you fall in love with the brand. That's so nice. So thanks for coming on and chatting with me. I really on day one, you two are just so easy and approachable and kind. Oh, so kind. So it's nice to have your energy and thanks for supporting coming on the pod. I really, really, really do appreciate that. I like I told you yesterday, I love what you're doing, and I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Yeah, you're always a coach, and it's like that's kind of just where you really are. That's I feel like that's the space that you should be in, and you also know how to like let women feel seen, and you always know what how to what to say. Like I said this to Angela, like she always knew what to say to get what you needed to get out of yourself to get to the next step, you know? And I think like that's super important and like it's a gift that not a lot of people have, and so you have to keep on doing what you're doing and following your heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Yeah, but I'm gonna like Soundcliffe. How do I, you know, you get those staple buttons in your I take. I just like anytime I need to hear, like, you're on the right road, just like hit it and hear your voice say that. You're gonna be my little staples, but oh god. So true.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

Like you've been involved in it with um with your energy or smile, and like just like even like what you give to to people. That's what I mean by like, even if we all are going through we can all go through so many things, but I feel like the most important thing is that when you do reconnect and just there isn't any like why why haven't we talked? Like like uh a negative with you. I think it's just like honestly, it was amazing to see you and David and and on the street, and it was like like no time has passed kind of thing. And that to me, I cherish a lot. And I think you have that ability to to gather people, and you all and you always had the best intention in order to gather people. So this like this whole platform for you is makes so sm so much sense to what you're doing and and and and everything and beyond.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

Love you too.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Thank you. Thanks. God, I feel so. Honestly, it sounds like very like, oh, this is like no, it's like honest to God, the like the the truth of the matter of it all. You're the only person that has made me cry in a cycle class because of that lady smoke. And you're like, what did she know? I needed to hear that, but I can't do this class.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Exercise. The form of what's up. Listen, sometimes in the dark track, I you know how we turn all the lights off and like blow all the candles out, have a little cry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

I've seen it. There's like so many times that I'm like, it was both like the the music of choice, and then like whatever you had said, and I'm like, oh my god, thank god it's so dark in here that nobody's seeing and witnessing this cry that I needed to release. So it's like very therapeutic. I mean, it was it was good times.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Thanks, you too. I love you. Have a beautiful day. I can't wait to come in and tie on some clothes. Yeah, sincerely. Yeah, let me talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

I'll perfect bottom yellow from French dress that I can totally see on. It's like uh Chris. I can for sure see that. I'll make something.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

I could five.