TOS of PR

What happens when the rug gets pulled out from under you? Amira believes you were always meant to land exactly where you did.

This week, listen in as Nadine sits down with Amira de Vera, entertainment publicist and founder of Project Four PR, for a conversation that wanders, beautifully, from books to burnout to the Burnt Toast Theory. Amira shares how she stumbled into the Public Relations world with zero plan (just a volunteering gig at Toronto Fashion Week and a lot of nerve), built her own firm after a toxic boss finally pushed her out the door, and learned that the universe has a funny way of redirecting you right when you think you're lost.

They get into the difference between working hard and burning out, why sitting with pain is scarier than outrunning it, and how therapy, morning routines, and the occasional ugly cry over Kristin Hannah can all be part of the same healing toolkit.

Plus: Tom Cruise is apparently really lovely, Honey's Ice Cream is a life-saver, and if you haven't started The Nightingale yet — well, you've been warned.

@the_otherside_pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to the other side pod. I'm Nadine. We're not experts. We're just humans having a human experience we think you can learn from or relate to or laugh at or cry over. So hit download, dive in, and hear how folks found themselves on the other side. Okay, we're recording with the lovely Mira. Are you a big reader? Yes, you are. I didn't even need to ask you that. Yeah. That wasn't my question. My question is: what is the book that hit you the hardest in the last year?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Oh my god. Easy. The Nightingale by Kristen Hanna. I knew you were gonna say it. I so here's the funny thing. I always read thrillers. Like that's my thing. And from time to time I'll change it up. But then I keep I kept hearing about Kristen Hanna and everyone talking about how she's so good at historical fiction. And it was never really my genre. So I'm like, whatever, I'll give it a try. I am obsessed with her now. Like all I've been doing is reading Kristen Hanna books, but I read The Nightingale. I didn't have any expectations. I just wanted to get into it. Why am I ugly crying? Like 200 pages in, like, actually, like ugly crying, like hyperventilating crying. So it's very good. And it really touched me. And it just it was such a beautiful story. And obviously, like it's fictional, but it is based on real events and just the state of the world right now, too. So it really hits you hard. And she's such a beautiful writer. So now I'm like accumulating all these books by her because I just want to read everything by her. She does it so well.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I have three of her books that two of them I haven't read. So my friends also love her and they keep giving me her books. But I started The Nightingale, which I told you because I when you posted about it, I was like, I can't read it. I started it last fall, and I was like, this is really it's it is devastating, but devastatingly beautiful, like how she puts you right there, and she writes women really well, and and like women in these catastrophic moments, but still explaining the power and the strength and the resilience and the softness of women. Okay. Yeah, all that aside, I'm reading it, I'm loving it. I'm like, God, this is hard, this is beautiful. And then I'll tell you where I stopped, if you remember. There's a dinner about to happen. It's so close to the end, Emira. So many hard things have already happened. But there's a dinner, and this woman, one of the main characters, is forced to serve these uh these men in the German army. Okay. I can't read it. I literally was like, it's the chapter where the dinner's about to happen, and I was like, I'm gonna take a break from this. Something bad's about to happen. And I literally put it aside, and that was six months ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

I always you know, listen, I get it. I feel like it should come with a warning because I feel like you know, you sometimes you read stories and you're like, okay, it's gonna get better because like you've hit the worst, but with her books, it just keeps getting more dusty, and you're like, oh my god, it doesn't get better. So I get it. I understand why you would put it down and take a break from it. I would highly advise to go back and read it because it does, it's good, but it is devastating.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Okay, I will. I'm currently reading Project Hail Mary. Have you heard about this? Is it good? Yeah, it's good. I'm only maybe I'm on the Kindle, so like it says it's a thousand pages, but I don't know how big the actual like paperbook is. But I'm maybe a hundred and something pages in on a actually it's a Kobo, most small pages. All that to say, I'm very intrigued because I'm like, I'm not supposed to tell anybody anything about it. I think the purpose of Project Hail Mary is to go in knowing nothing. So without giving away anything, I am like, what is happening? But not in a like, yes, it's distressing, but in in a in more your brain is like it's like boing, boing, boing, boing because you're like trying to imagine what happened to set this up and what's happening in the moment, and I can't explain it any way better than that except to say it's really great. Like, I'm all in, I'm all in. But I will go back to Kristen Hannah, I swear to God.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Listen, I love I love her books, but I do think that it's okay to take a break from them because they're very heavy, so I get it.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

This is not about books, but while we're talking books, the book that absolutely devastated me, and I read it maybe 20 years ago, is called The Kite Runner. Have you read The Kite Runner?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Oh, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Yeah, I read it a long time ago, but it's devastating. When you said what sticks out to you about the nightingale is like it just it almost keeps getting worse. To me, that's that made me think of the kite runner because my mom recommended it to me, and I was so mad at her because I was like, Mom, this is just it keeps getting worse. Like, why would you recommend this to me? And I couldn't put it down because it is so well written and it's so beautiful, but that crushed my heart. Like, not my soul, because it was actually soul enriching to read it. You have to take in the dark with the light. I get it, Kristin Hannah. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

But anyway, okay, tell us who you are. So I am Amira. I am a entertainment, I'm an entertainment publicist, and I own the company Project for PR, and we represent talent all across Canada. And my job is to make sure people know who they are. And you got that's one part in who I am. Obviously, there's other many parts of me. Okay, s name another part. I I'm an avid reader, I love working out, I love anything fitness. That's what gets me through my days. And I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, and I'm heading into my 40s, so I feel like I'm heading into this new chapter and the era of my life, which I'm very excited about. Winter birthday, June 4th.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Oh, it's gonna be the big 40th on June 4th. Big 40. Gosh, I can't wait to watch that online. You're also really You're a great content creator. Like we were before we hit record, we were talking about how everyone knows the bad parts of social media. I don't we don't need to get into it. But what's really beautiful about social media is how it manages to connect people in really lovely ways. And that is true for our story because we met, I think, in 2018-ish, on a panel. You came to Ottawa because you were in Toronto, right? You came to Ottawa, and it was a panel at the university, like Ottawa University or Carlton, Ottawa.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

It was Ottawa University. So funny story, it was put on by my sorority. So I went to school at Carleton University, and the panel was put together by my sorority, and they asked me to be a part of it. But it was so nice to like see people outside of our sorority as well. And that's how I met you. I think Amber, yeah, Amber for the year. She was on it, yeah. Yeah, which is so funny because whenever I am in Ottawa, I'll go to her, like, I'll go to Pure Yoga, and so it's so funny. Like, I feel like we've all stayed in touch in some way, so yeah, that's where we met.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

It's the beauty of socials, and okay, so did you always like as soon as social media hit, were you creating content? Was it something you embraced?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

You know what's funny? I always joke about this because I embraced social media from the very beginning. And when I started my career in PR, Twitter was the only thing that we really had at the time. And I joked that it was just me and Ashton Kutcher on Twitter because nobody knew about it. So literally it was me, Ashton Kutcher, and like a bunch of celebrities that were like just tweeting. Yeah, so I've always been on social media, especially because a huge part of it was part of my job. And when Instagram came out, I had just I was year one into my career, and I was working with talent, and we were trying to find ways to promote them. And Instagram came out, so I'm like, hey, have you guys heard of Instagram? And so it was really me who helped the firm that I was working for at the time. I was the one that really headed I headed the department for like social media. So I, you know, while I was helping clients, I was also creating my own content at the same time. So I feel like I've always been a content creator even before it was dubbed as like a term. Um, and I honestly I just love doing it. I always say content creating is a full-time job, and if you don't love it, it takes a toll on you and it can really be time consuming and mentally like you gotta really be doing it for yourself, otherwise, all that noise just gets in your head. Yeah, all this to say is that I've always been online, I've always been on social media.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

You do it well, you like I love watching as I also love moving my body, so I love watching what you're up to, and I also really love good food. And I'm like, where is she eating? And I watch you like travel to LA to do these premieres and like work with your clients as they like walk the red carpet and I'm like, what is she up to? This is so cool. So, like, how did you even get into PR? Where, like, where did this come from?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

So it's funny because it's one of those I what I fell into the career by accident. I studied political science at Carleton University, and then I stayed in Ottawa for six months after graduation, trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and then I realized it wasn't the career that I really wanted to do. So without a plan, without even without even an apartment, I moved to Toronto. I was just crazy. I was in my early 20s, I wasn't really thinking, I was just being spontaneous, and I decided to move to Toronto, and I didn't really have a plan in terms of what I wanted to do as a job, so I just applied to everything and anything in the world. And this was at the time when you printed out your resume and you go in person and you hand people your resume. It was that you really have to hustle, right? Yeah, so I dropped off my resume, all these different firms, and I always liked fashion. Fashion was a big part of just my interests, and I noticed that there was like a posting for volunteers for fashion week, and so I volunteered at Charlotte Fashion Week, and I ended up meeting this lovely woman who had a PR firm, and she asked if I who I was and what I was doing, and I said, Oh, I'm just volunteering here. She's I'm looking for an intern for my PR firm. I didn't even know what PR was. I was like, Oh, okay, cool. That sounds fun. I'll do it. So I started interning for her, and I realized quickly this is a career that I think I want to grow in. This is really interesting. I love the idea of storytelling through the media. And so I interned for her for two months, and then she wasn't really hiring, so she recommended me to a different PR firm. That PR firm focused on entertainment PR, and it was they represented talent like actors, singers, directors, and then also big film and TV productions. So I just happened to be, I think, at the right place because I did an internship with them, and the person I was working with them ended up leaving, and so there was an open position. So then I ended up getting that job, and I was there for eight years. So I really great gained a lot of my experience at that firm, and I loved it. It really was something that I excelled in, and then eight years later, I opened up my own PR firm. So I've been doing that since. When did you open it? What year? 2017.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Project four. Yeah. Yeah, because the funny story too is that after I quit my the firm that I was working for, I was like, oh, I'll try my hand at corporate PR. So I lost in six months because I went into it thinking, oh my god, I want to I want to climb the corporate ladder. I was 29 at the time, I think. And I was in this mindset of like, oh, I want to climb the corporate ladder, I want to hustle and do all of these things. Like I when the universe doesn't want you to do something, they'll do everything in their power to like shift you in a different direction. So I had a very I had a very toxic boss, and looking back now, I'm thankful for that because otherwise I would have never voluntarily left that job. And the day that I actually left that job, I was asking a sign from the universe, and then I ran into an old client of mine, and during this time I was still doing some freelance work on the side with some actors that I used to represent. And this actor that I ran into, an old client, he was like, Hey, I've been meaning to call you, I've been wanting to work with you. Do you still do PR? And I'm like, Okay, if this thing was fine, I don't know what is. Ended up with him, and then I freelanced for a bit. Um, and I had eight clients that I was freelancing with. And my mom was like, Why don't you just start a business? Like, why don't you just make this your full-time job? And I'm like, Me? I'm like, I could never start a business. That's weird. Like, I'm a great employee, but I don't think I could be like a my own boss kind of thing. But she's like, just do it, you're already doing it. So I was like, okay, let me just try this. So I gave myself a year, and I was like, okay, if this doesn't work after a year, then I'll do something else. Eight clients turned into 10 clients, which turned to 12 clients, and then they just kept going and I haven't stopped saying, you know, what a crazy turn of event.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

This is why I love conversations like this. Oh, I have so many questions. Okay, first off, let me start here. What is corporate PR? Here's what I think it is. It's I don't know, some soda brand to not name anybody, has done some stupid commercial which is offensive to a population. Is that where a corporate PR person comes in and they're like, whoa, here's how we have to reword this? Or okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

So there's crisis PR, which is what that exactly is. Crisis PR basically handles when things go and they have to help the company turn things around. But corporate PR is mostly doing PR for big brands. So at the time I was working for a firm that represented like really big brands, like Kellogg's and Sears and all these like big companies. And to be honest, I wasn't really having any fun. I think I was just doing it for the sake of just I want to get into corporate PR because it's something that seems like something that I would be that society would deem as successful. I think at the time I was feeling lost and us going off of like what society defines as successful, and saying I was starting 30 and I was like, I feel like I need to do what everybody else is doing, and clearly that wasn't my path. And I thank God it wasn't my path. So that's what corporate PR was. It's really working with those big companies. Yes, love that show. I represent some talent on that show.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Love that show. Isn't that what Kate does, isn't she in PR? And then ends up opening her own firm. Yeah, you're my Kate. Exactly. You're my Kate, my real world Kate.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

I love her. I love her character. It's such a good show. They do such a great job. I love it. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

It's so clever, it's so well written, it's so well acted, and it's so real. And I also love that Toronto is a character in it.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

It it like makes me so happy on all levels. Okay, back to signs. I'm gonna read out this because I've been thinking about podcasting with you for a long time because I find you very like I said, you leap off the screen. I'm like, what is she doing? And I find your career and your company so interesting, but also you're you have a lot of integrity. Like you're just oh thank you. It just leaps. It really does leap off the screen. And so I was like, I'll ask her one day because I was a little nervous. Um, but then you then you posted this, and I was like, this is my girl, this is a woman for me, and it's called the burnt toast theory, and I want to read it. I gotta take off my glasses. I need my glasses to be distance or for podcasting when I'm tired. Okay, or for fashion. Makes an outfit. Okay, the burnt toast theory. Every time you burn your toast, miss an exit, miss your flight, or get stuck in traffic, you're actually being delayed for a reason. You are being redirected to a different path. What feels like an inconvenience is actually protecting you from something on scene. Even if you don't get where you want it to go, you'll always end up where you are meant to be. Trust the process. And that's inspired by the book Let Go Trust God by Rebecca Simon. Say more, say all the things. I couldn't. I'm gonna keep that screenshot forever because it's so true. And yes, a big moment is ending up in a job that's toxic for sure, but like all those little moments as well, like running into that person on the street, that actor that you had represented, what are the flipping chances, Amira?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I live by this theory because I feel like my entire life has been a series of bird toast. When I always say, even with little things like I'll be downstairs at my condo building and the elevator isn't working, and people huffing and puffing and like getting impatient, which is valid, but I always look at this as wow, I'm being protected from something. I don't know what that is. Maybe I'll never find out. But there is a reason for everything in life, and I truly 100% believe that. I'll give you an example too. Is this a bigger example than a bird toast, but I always go back to this. And during the pandemic, I went through an incredibly, you know, devastating breakup. And at the time it came out of nowhere, I the rug was pulled underneath my feet, and I was like, Why is this happening to me? It was it really changed the trajectory of my life, and there was a moment where I was just like, Why is this happening to me? Why? And I asked the universe for a sign, and it was so funny because I I was walking in the street, and then I came back home and I had a package, and it was I forget her the author's name, but her books, her book is called The Trusted the Universe, and I literally asked for a sign for it, and I said literally trust the universe, this book's in trust the universe. I said, Okay, everything that's happening is happening for a reason. And sure enough, like it was a blessing in disguise. Like, I was not meant to be with this person, I was meant to go a completely different path. And even though that's a bigger example, it is along the lines of the burnt toast theory. Because every time you get redirected, every time you get shifted, whether it's big or small, there is always something waiting for you on the other side that was meant to protect you and put you in the path that you're supposed to be in. All this to say, right, when I saw that, I was like, I gotta post it because it will mean something to somebody and it will be their own burnt toast reminder that whatever is happening to you right now is directing you to something that you're meant to be in.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

My best girlfriend, Jilly, she has this, she's she has this theory that if something happens to divert you for something, she was like, You were never going to do that. And it's so simple for her. Like, she was, I was like, say more. Tell them explain this to me. And she was like, Okay, a friend of hers will, I don't know, something will happen, they'll miss their shift at work. They'll like their kid is sick. And she was like, You were never meant to be working that day. And she's a police officer, so think of the risks involved in the job. So she was like, You were just not meant to work today. Whatever was gonna happen, you were it was like, nope, not this person's day. And I'm like, so I think of that when I like, I don't know, miss a turn off or I don't know, like all these little things. Like I was like, if I wake up and I have a migraine, I have to cancel my class because I get migraine, especially in the spring and fall with the weather changes here in Ottawa because we're in a valley. And I hate to pay a miscancel fee, as I'm sure you do. Hate it. But I love a miscancel fee because it keeps me getting up at 6 30 in the morning. But anyway, I'll let to say I'm so irritated in the moment because number one, I've got a migraine. I'm like, I gotta pay a cancel fee. But then I'm like, I was never meant to go to this class. Like, I don't know what was gonna happen on the way there or on the way back. Yeah, and I know it sounds a bit like trusting the universe for all of the things, but why not? Why not trust the universe for all of the things?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

I don't believe anything in life is random. I think everything is in place for a reason. There are no such thing as coincidences, in my opinion. And there's so many inconveniences that we may experience throughout the day. But if we actually stop and think about, okay, maybe this, like you said, Mr. and or in this class I'm canceling, maybe I was not meant to be there because something was gonna happen along the way that was not in protection of me. And yes, it sounds a little bit woo woo, but think about it. Think about all the things in your past or in your present where you've missed like an exit or something, like it could have prevented you from something bigger. So trust trust that the delay is meant to be there and it's for something, it's not random.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Oh, and okay, sure, little things, but those big moments when you're having those dark nights of the soul. I don't know who to like credit for that term, but I love it. It they're imperative because you're right, you weren't meant for that path. And I totally agree with you that when something's not right for you, you will get slapped so many times until you listen. And that's happened to me a few times. But like I remember in the most recent one, which was really like. Like getting me out of a career that I was in and into this new chapter of my life. And it was, I was having a really hard time getting out of it. And I remember I worked with a coach at the time who worked with the Enneagram. And this is why I this is why I'm dove so deep into the Enneagram world and coaching because it changed my life. But I remember saying to her, because when you're in it and when you're in a really dark place, you cannot, for the life of me, I know there's going to be light. And I do mostly hang on to the notion of it and the hope of it. But catch me in a moment. And I'm like, what is the fucking point of this? And I remember I said to her in a session one time, I was like, why am I still stuck in this? I can't, but I've got no gas left. I'm on zero, one on the one to ten scale here. And she said, There's more depth there. At the time, I wanted to murder her. I was like, you don't want you don't get where I am. You don't get what's happening. Like, I there's no more depth here. I've scoured it. I've reaped all there is to reap out of this. And anyway, months, no, probably a year and a half later, I sat at lunch with her and I was like, You said to me at probably one of the hardest moments of my life, there's more depth. And I hated you. And she just laughed. She calls herself loving sandpaper. It's she's adorable. And but I was like, but you were right. So yes, there's like these trusting the universe signs and listen to these little whispers before they throw you headfirst into a wall, which has happened to me and probably likely happened to you because it happens. We ignore a lot of whispers, but also when you're still in it and you're like, I'm trusting it, I'm trusting it. Like, why isn't this getting a bit easier, a bit softer? Yeah, there's depth, there's depth, and it's so hard to mine it for lessons when you're just fucking exhausted. Totally. Always there's something to get out of it that really is going to enrich the next phase of your life.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

A hundred percent. And I love that she said that there's depth because one of the best advice that I've ever heard while I was going through a really hard time again during the pandemic through my breakup was I was listening to I think it was a TED talk by Glennon Doyle, who I loved, and she said, Most of us run away from pain, but the bit best lessons that you can learn is if you learn to sit with the pain, just sit with the pain, don't ignore it. And the lessons that you learn from there will definitely put you in a different path. And I tend to continue with life when things are hard. Like I'll just push through, and I was never the type of person that would just really sit in the coin. I was always a go-go type person, and that was just my personality, but also it was what society told us to do, especially as women. You just have to keep going. But the pandemic really forced me to slow down and sit down with that pain, with those feelings. And I really went through a major transformation when I did that because it allowed me to really see what I wasn't seeing, and a big part of it was healing a lot of childhood trauma and healing a lot of like family patterns. And I would have never done that work if I didn't sit and sit in the discomfort of it all. So I love that your friend said there's more depth in there because there is, there truly is. And if we stop running away from the pain, if we stop distracting ourselves with what your body's actually trying to tell you, you become so much more free from it all.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Jokes on me. I used movement. Movement was an absolute addiction, and I you and I made it my career, so it looked so healthy. Of course, I'm out here doing this eight hours a day and whatever. Yeah. Not eight hours continuous a day. Although I did do a half iron man, because why wouldn't you? Which probably took me close to eight years. Why not? Why wouldn't I? And and then I broke my ankle, so I really couldn't move. And it was during the pandemic, and I just sat there and I remember like looking at the brace on my foot, and I was like, or the what do you call it? The walking brace, the basically the cat. And I was like, this feels like one of those, oh my god, like uh, what do you call it? Uh anyway, I can't think of the word for it. But basically, I remember looking at the brace on my leg and being so angry with it because it literally chained me to myself, and I so wanted to outrun myself, and then I was like, oh, I hate it here inside this body and inside this brain because there's so much to like work through, and I don't want to. I'd rather go run. I'd rather the physical pain of exertion over the emotional pain. Oh my gosh. But now I don't think I'm sure I could fall back into it. That's why I have a good therapist and a great coach. But knowing that and having to come to terms with it, it literally took breaking my ankle on both sides of it. I didn't just do one break. It was like, I remember the doctor in the ER was like, oh my god, are you like, when did you do this? And anyway, it's such a long story, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, he was like, You can't move, like your bone is hanging on by a thread. And I just sobbed because I was like, Oh, I'm hanging on by a thread. Like, I am hanging on by thread. Yeah. Anyway, those moments. And isn't it yes?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, I love that you said that though. Like, we rather would feel the physical pain than actually go through the emotional pain because it's so true. Like, I feel like we really push as women, as humans, to get through these like hard times. But when it comes to our emotions, we just we run away and we don't want to face them for whatever reason. It's scarier to do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

God, the first time I went to therapy, the guy I went because I got divorced and I was very sad, and it was he was a lovely man. I've talked about it before, but anyway, I sat in the therapist's office for the first time, and he said, Do you want to talk about your childhood? And I was like, No, everything was perfect. I just want to focus on this. And the guy let me, he was a great therapist, actually, and got me through that really rough time. But I remember being like, No, there's nothing there, and believing it because when you just lie to yourself, right? Because who wants to go dig up that stuff? But anyway, it was just funny. Now that I think about it, I'm like, probably he should have made me dig a little more. But worked with me for a long time and got me through that really difficult period. And maybe that was like my little baby entrance to therapy. Maybe that was like the only way I was gonna stick with it. But and then now many therapists later, and like some really great work. My sisters, thank you for doing therapy for all of us because it's really hard and I don't want to, and then mom doesn't want to, and Stephen doesn't like you're all welcome, you bunch of assholes. But she's sweet, she's I know how exhausting it is. It's a full-time job to go do this, so like good on you.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

It is yeah, there is, I mean, therapy is amazing. I love therapy, and I think obviously there is more talk around it, and I love that people are going more to therapy, but it is like you said, it's hard work, and again, it forces you to face those emotions and those feelings that you're like, can I just avoid this? I'm obviously a big I love therapy, but I do acknowledge how hard it can be.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Totally, but I do find life easier with it because once you do, I don't know, I don't know if there's like a period of time because there is a period of time when it's it gets harder, it's almost like harder when you're in it, and you're like, but I know it's I know it's I know the GC stuff's coming up because it's gonna get softer, yeah. Um, but now I feel like in this groove where I still go check in with my therapist because I really love her and she and I find it really grounding. And I do find coaching and therapy, like all of that to me is like lifelong work. But I find even when I catch myself now in an old like something, an old pattern or like an old thought will come up, and I'm like, oh, that's this, and that's coming from this, right? And it just it's a softer place to land now.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Absolutely, it takes time, it takes time, but then you get to that point where you're like, Okay, I get this now, and I get myself better, and I understand where a lot of like triggers are coming from and emotions are coming from, so it does get easier, but it like you said, it's a lifelong work, and things will come up in our lives, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah, okay, I can talk to you about therapy all day, every day, but also want to know about PR. Maybe we need to have you back a lot, but okay. What is a day in the life of someone who owns a PR company? Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

It's funny because obviously with social media, it's really just a lot of it is the highlights, and I've said it in one video one time. I'm like, it seems like my life is so glamorous, but guys, like it's it's not always like this. A typical day usually is me working in front of my computer because a lot of there's a lot of emails. So a lot of my job really is pitching my clients to the media. So, what that means is I get say I have an actor who has a film or a TV show that's coming out. My job is to make sure that people know that he's going to, he or she is going to be in this film and our and our TV show, and this is how they should watch it, kind of thing. So it's really about promoting their work and also promoting who they are as actors. So where that really starts is I sit down with them and I really figure out, okay, who are you as an actor? What are we trying to get out there in the media and in the public? And once we are on the same pages on that, then you know, I start pitching the media. So pitching the media means I'm pitching them a story to have them interview my client. When you guys see those like late-night talk shows where like actors are being interviewed, the PR person is the one that organized all of that. So that's my job. So a lot of it is logistical, so a lot of coordinating my emails. A typical day where I am on site with my actors, I'll go to their TV interviews. So I'll be at this TV studios where they're doing their interviews. Sometimes they're like back-to-back interviews if it's a client that's from out of town. The more glamorous side of things is when I'm actually going to the premieres. That's what you saw in my last video where I went to LA because my client's film premiere was happening in Hollywood. So I'm helping them with interviews at the red carpet, getting their photos taken. So those are like the typical days in my life. I would say 70% is Mia working in front of my computer, and then 30% of that is the more glamorous side of it that you see online.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Is there a particular show that would be like the like a mecca of where you'd love to get one of your clients?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yes, there's a lot of them. Any of the late night talk shows would be incredible, but one of my dreams is to get a client hosting SNL. That's always been a fun dream of mine because I'm like, that would be really cool. I have a client right now who is on SNL, but she was a former client of mine, and she's on SNL, so that's pretty cool. But it would be amazing to have one of my actors be a host on SNL, so that's the Mecca. And then I've been loving Jennifer Hunts' show lately. I don't know if you've seen her videos online where she has that like spirit tunnel where actors are dancing. And I love it, so it would be fun to have a client on there too.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Okay, my dream. Could you could let's partner up, Amira? Let's go on Graham Norton. Oh, yeah. I'm like, that is him all day, every day. I want to be the Graham Norton of Canada. I want to have that conversation with people, like on a couch, glass of wine, and like real chat. Like I there's something about there's something about the way that the UK, that's like their humor, they're just they're so real. It doesn't, I know it's all set up as well, and I know if things are planned out, and probably questions are like pre-planted. I don't know, but it seems very real, it seems like so honest, like the again, a lot of integrity there, and that's what I want. I'm like, I want to know the real thing. Don't anyway, I could go on about that forever. I love him, he is so great. And then wait, Taylor Swift comes up with the whole video for Opalite while on the show, and he's like, everybody's on the show. It's so brilliant. Brilliant brilliant marketing, brilliant everything. Brilliant. What is what's what's like a successful day look like for you? Like a big win. What is that?

SPEAKER_01 34:41

For me, and I think any publicist would attest to this, is really getting those responses back from the media. Our job, I always I always say our job is notoriously time consuming because you're literally sitting there following up with emails time and time again. So it's really getting those like responses back from media saying, Yes, we would love to have your client on our show, or we would love to feature your client. So to me, that's a big win, huge success. Yeah, and then you get to deliver that news, that's so fun. Exactly. Like a lot of the actors I work with, some are seasoned, but some are also up and coming and rising actors. So when you get to deliver that news to them, it's very exciting, and it's a huge part in their career trajectory. So I love doing that. Okay, what about a hard day? It could be multiple things. I think a hard day is when you're getting a lot of no's. So that's a big thing. Like this industry, the entertainment industry, Hollywood, film and TV, it's a very hard industry. And I always say you get a lot of no's before you get yesing. So it's those days when you do get a lot of rejection. And also days when sometimes you have a challenging call with a client because they're not really understanding like where things are going, or you're gonna you're having to explain like why things are slower. So it's having those difficult conversations with some clients who may not necessarily understand the process of PR. One of the biggest things I always say is that PR is a long-term strategy, it's not an overnight strategy. There's that myth of this person uh what's famous overnight. Overnight means they've been going at it for 10 years, kind of thing. So PR is the same thing, it takes time, it takes time for if we really trust you as a brand, trust you as a person. So it's having to explain those declines who may not necessarily understand that.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

We are hitting the nail on the head here because we do want things immediately. And I'm constantly trying to remind myself because I've just started a new business. I'm like, things take time to grow, and you it's like consistency, it's consistency. Yeah, and make sure you're liking it because when it's new and you just have to be consistent without a lot of wins, if you're the one getting yourself out of bed, especially as you start your own business as well. Like you're the one that's driving it, yeah, and no one can see, and that's okay. If you like it, if you don't like it, do not do it, do not start your own business.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

And and and I posted about this the other day because there's there's this shift that we've been seeing around discomfort and starting your own business or and starting maybe even a new career, right? One of the things that I've noticed is that a lot of people look at discomfort nowadays and see it as this like sign or like barrier to could to keep going with their business or even just a new career that they've started. And I think it's because we're we're we've been inundated with therapy speak, like boundaries, and and those are obviously all important things, right? Like we definitely need to put our wellness first and not burn out. But I think we've forgotten that sometimes there's so many discomfort and unglamorous parts of doing your own thing. And it happens in the beginning of every business. I've had moments where I'm like, oh my god, like, how am I going to survive the next month? I don't have any clients coming in and it's oh, like I'm new, I have to keep proving myself, kind of thing. So there is a lot of that in the beginning, and and I still experience some of it even now from time to time. But I think when we experience those moments, then we equate it to, oh, I don't want to keep hustling because it's gonna lead to burnout. But it's like there's a distinct difference between that and overworking yourself for no reason. That's burnout. I think working hard in the beginning, experiencing the discomfort and knowing that things are going to be mundane and you have to be consistent regardless of how hard it is in the beginning, and then hopefully a year and a half, two, whatever it however long it takes. And like you said, you still like doing what you're doing, it will lead to success. But I think people give up so easily because they're afraid when things start to get discomf when they still start to feel that discomfort.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, I love what you're saying. I think there's a clear distinction between burnout and yes, working so hard that you're tired by the end of the day. And sometimes that's muddled. And I appreciate that as someone who definitely burnt herself out and didn't understand until it was a bit probably too late, but it was okay. I I had time to to recover and I anyway, I had help. But there's also parts of my old job where I just worked a lot, and I remember thinking, like, oh, that swallowed me whole for the first two years. And I didn't keep, I wasn't the best friend actually, because I remember one of my friend's husbands texted me and he was like, Don't forget today is Jill's birthday. And I was like, Oh my god, I'm such an asshole. Because I really was consumed with myself, consumed with the business, and I had to be, or that's the only way I knew how to do it at the time. Right. Now, launching this one, I'm probab I'm definitely more balanced, but it's a different industry completely. And then do I work weekends and nights still? Yeah, actually, sometimes I do because I now I I can feel the difference between working really hard and being committed to it and being consistent with burnout. And I also have someone who can see where I go and he's do you maybe just need some time. And I went to visit my mom in Newfoundland a couple weeks ago. And David's have you scheduled a bunch of things while you're there, or are you just gonna chill out? Because it's hard to turn off when you're still building. It really is hard to be like, it's enough this week, Nadine. Yeah. So it's nice to have someone else tell you when it is, but to your point, you just have to work really fucking hard sometimes and for little credit and probably little reward and probably little financial reward at the beginning when you're building it. And it's not because it's wrong, like the signs from the universe isn't that, isn't working hard. The signs from the universe are different, right? Like sometimes the universe is like, this is the wrong path. So now what they ask for, like in my week, instead of being like, I wish for X number of downloads on a podcast or X number of clients or like a new client intake or something like that. Now I'm like, I want a little sign this week. And I do. Every week I get a little nugget, and I'm like, thank you, universe. This feels like the right road, but I appreciate the reminders along the way. Like green less instead of the blaring stop signs everywhere. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

I appreciate that. I I also think, like, in terms of the difference between burnout and just working hard in general. I think for me at least, when I find myself burnt out, it's when I'm literally sitting at in front of my computer, just staring at my screen and nothing is forming in my brain. That's when I know I'm like, okay, you need a break. You need a bit of a break. And then there's moments where like you're just working long hours, but you're still going, you still have the adrenaline. Of course, you're tired, of course you're exhausted, but I feel okay. I feel like, okay, my brain is still working. I think to me, the indication is when you know you have to take care of yourself when you can't even really formulate the words or thoughts. So I think there is that this distinction as well. And I think it's muddled nowadays, right? Because like we are inundated with like all these advice from people that we see online of oh, you don't work too hard because then you're gonna be burnt out. But what does that mean? What does that mean? You have to define that for you can't define it based on what society's telling you what it is.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Yeah, agree. And speaking of that, I watch you during TIFF and it's like the Toronto Film Festival, Toronto International Film Festival. Yes, and it's a perfect sign or it's a perfect reminder of busy seasons. I watch you and I'm like watching every video and everything you're going to, and by the end, you're literally in your car with I don't know, a protein bar and a coffee. You're like, okay, one more day. And that's not burnout, that is exhaustion because you've got hard because it's a really busy, exciting season. What I also see in you during that time is all of this like excitement and energy and the adrenaline. And then I hope you take time long after. Well, that's totally kind of stuff you gotta do. And like part of that is like the most exciting part of your job.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

And the exciting things are gonna be a bit draining, probably. Exactly. And listen, I plan those days ahead of time, so I do give myself that like mental gymnastics beforehand because I'm like, okay, I know this is I know from this day to this day I'm going to be working 12, 14-hour week days. So I need to really be prepared for that. And like in my head, I'm like, it's temporary. But yeah, at the end of it, I'm like, oh my god, this is I'm tired, but also this is great. I have so much fun doing it. I love what I'm doing, but I know it comes with a territory of having to work super long hours, and that's okay. Wait, do you love dressing up for it? Oh, yeah, yeah. I've always loved fashion. Fashion is like my my hobby. I always say, I'm like, I love dressing up, so it really is fun to do all of that, and so that's one of my favorite parts of it too.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Oh my god, this year you posted like Tiff from like years past and what you wore, and you were like, Look at the big necklace, it was so in style, and I'm like, I remember wearing something like that. It's so fun. Please be here. Loved it.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

I well, I'm going to do it because people really loved it, but I also used to wear Like seven-inch heels walking running around the city. I'm like, am I okay? What was I thinking? I'm like, no, now I'm like, I need to be in sensible shoes because I'm running around. And but back then, like, that's what we all wore like seven-inch heels for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I love seeing sneakers with a fancy outfit. I'm like, yes, please, more of that. What is your favorite part of your job? Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

This is gonna sound cheesy, but I think my favorite part is when I really see a client succeed. And by that I'm like, you see them starting out in their career. Like I'm always with clients from the beginning of their career, meaning that they have a supporting role, and then like years later, you see them like really in their game and at the top of their game. So that to me is what really makes me so happy. It's very rewarding. So I love that. But I also love I do love meeting people in this industry. I think it's such a small industry, and everyone has such an interesting part in it, whether it's the actor, whether it's the freaking catering team at the sets. Like I think there's so many incredible people in this industry, and I do love meeting those people. I think a big part of PR is the people that you know and the connections that you have. And I feel like I've really done well in terms of creating those connections and genuine connections because there can also be a lot of fakeness in this industry because people sometimes they want something from somebody else, but I feel like I've really I've really excelled in creating genuine connections where I've stayed friends with a lot of these people, so that's also really nice.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Is there you don't have to name names, but is there like a highlight moment, like uh an interaction you had, or I don't know, just like someone that you met that really like sticks with you?

SPEAKER_01 45:55

I tell this story every time because it's my favorite story, but I worked with Tom Cruise, this was years ago, on his film. Oh my god, I can't remember the film now so long ago. But anyways, I worked with him on his film. He came to Toronto for the premiere, and I it's Tom freaking Cruz, like he's a freaking movie star. Your expectations are like, okay, let's see what happens. I just have to be at my on my A game and be very professional. He was the nicest human being I've ever met. You hear stories of him and he's the Scientology things, but he's he was genuinely such a wonderful person. He introduced himself to everybody. He was like, I'm Tom. I'm like, yeah, we know you're Tom Cruise. So it was so nice to see that. He talked to every single fan, took a picture with everybody. And then once the campaign wrapped up, he sent our office flowers just to say thank you for. I know it's probably like his like assistant or his team, but still, it was such a genuine and kind gesture, um, coming from someone who's this huge celebrity. So that was one of my favorite interactions. He was super lovely to work with and just a really nice human.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

It's so nice to hear stories like that because I think we're so quick to put out the bad news stuff. And I'm like, eh, let's just share some love with the world and with other people. Yeah. Okay. While I say that, I'm guessing people have disappointed you along the way. Oh, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

I always say I should write a book, but yes, there's been a lot. This, like I said, this industry, amazing, but a lot of hardships.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

So what do you do? Okay, you've had a hard, frustrating day, disappointment. What do you do to take care of yourself?

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Okay, so yeah, I have a non-negotiable morning routine, and I think everyone sees this on my Instagram, but I have a non-negotiable morning routine that I need to do every day, and that is wake up. I wake up at 5 a.m. and then I do a 6 a.m. or 600 every day. Every day, girl. I mean, also, it's not a flex. I'm a grandma. This is not a flex. I always say it because I'm asleep by 9 p.m. So that's why I'm awake so early. Thanks. Um, but yeah, so I do my morning routine where I go for my workout, and then it really is time for myself where I do the workout, and then sometimes when it's nice outside, I'll walk back from my workout, and that's like my meditation, and then I make my breakfast, and then I have time to sit with myself and just meditate before the day starts. So that's really how I personally take care of myself, and then you know, the end of the day, and I started doing this recently. This is my boundary that I've set for myself, especially when you own your own business. But I really do make it a note to switch off my laptop at 6 p.m. Sometimes I have to work a little bit past that, but 6 p.m. I'm done. And then I just watch like mindless TV, whether it's a reality show or like a show I'm watching. That's like the self-care that I give myself.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

The White Lotus? When's it coming out?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

I if they said 2027, so next year. No, there's no white lotus this year. I know. They're still casting right now, so it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Oh, it's the best. For the next one, yes. I'm yeah, I'm with you. I also love to zone out like in front of the TV. TV gets a bad rap, but my gosh, listen, I love a story, so it's just another way to tell me a story, and I'm like all in, and I really like watching it with David because luckily we like the same stuff. So anyway, yeah, same. So you just turn off your brain. Yes, totally. Exactly. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so Toronto. Yes, favorite place to go grab a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Ooh. Oh my god, there's so many. It's okay. So I just went to this place yesterday called, hold on, I'm gonna butcher the name. I think it's Antilia, N-A-Y-T-L-I-A. Let me just double check. Yes, A-N-T-Y-L-I-A. It's a Latin American restaurant. It was one of the best places I've eaten at in a long time. So I really liked it. It's on Bloor Street in Toronto, and yeah, it's Latin American food, and they had amazing food and drinks. The other place I always recommend is a place called Aretta on King Street because their happy hour is amazing, and they have five dollar wines. So why not? Nice, yeah, wine.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Unheard of. I love a weekend in Toronto. One of my best girlfriends lives there, and I love going, and she takes me to all the fun shops, and oh god, yeah, because I really like Ottawa, but it's nice to pop out to a bigger city like Montreal or Toronto for a quick couple of days. Okay, this is what I always need to do when I go to Toronto. I don't care if it's minus 40, I'm still going. Have you had honey's ice cream?

SPEAKER_01 50:55

We had this conversation because I remember you told me that you when you come to Toronto, you bring your cooler and then you fill it with honey's ice cream, which I get.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

I don't anymore because Ashley gets so mad because she's it ruins it. It ruins it. So I did it last time, Ashley. I swear.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

But yes, okay, go on. Sorry. My husband and I are always honeys on drink, even in the winter sometimes. Like we get honey's ice cream, but in the summer, we're there all the time. I love it. I don't eat meat. I mean, I eat fish now, but I was vegan for a while, and so it was really hard to find vegan ice cream, and then honey's open, and I'm like, what is this place? It's amazing. She does it so well, it tastes like ice cream, it's better, like better.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

When I was eating, when I didn't realize that Terry and I were allergic to each other, I never really loved ice cream, probably because I never felt great eating it, but I liked it. What psychopath doesn't like an ice cream? But it's not something I ever craved. And now, honeys, I'm like, Oh yeah, like I crave it. Okay, so they just put out because we're talking right for Easter, they just put out a cream egg-filled cookie. I sent it to a friend of mine that's going to Toronto this weekend. I was like, you must go eat this cookie. Also, Amira, for me, go get one of their pies. Like, oh, their pies are amazing. So good. God, so good. Everything they have. She's gonna wholesale. That she's gonna wholesale in Ottawa. Like she keeps teasing me, so hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

They should, they would do very well in Ottawa, I think. I feel like Ottawa has a lot of people who don't probably want more vegan options, and I think it would do so well.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Totally. And we have some great vegan options here. Like Mushu ice cream is so good, but fully dedicated. Like, I love that I know the cookies and the like all the things there that I'm gonna be able to eat. I love looking at a menu where I don't have to choose based on what won't make me sick. Totally, yes. Okay, so what are you gonna do? It's the first day of spring, actually, while we're recording, but it's snowing here and ice rain there. What are you gonna do? Ice rain here.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I were yes, we're gonna pretend it's spring, but we I don't really have any plans. I feel like nowadays I've been trying hard to not overfill my weekends because I feel like I just sometimes need days where I'm not doing anything. So it's been nice to just play it as we go, kind of thing. So no, no official plans, but I'm sure we'll find something to do in Toronto. There's always something to do.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Always. I'm going to, I think you're gonna go through my spring clothes. I know it's early.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

But listen, it's still the first day of spring, it's still the first day of spring, so you might as well.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

I'm allowed to. Yes. Yeah, before I let you go, tell me how Amira is doing today.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Oh, Amira is doing well. I think today is Friday. Oh, yeah, today is. I was like, I think today is Friday. It is Friday, so that's exciting, and that's always a fun, nice surprise to remember that. But yeah, I'm doing great. The restaurant I was telling you about last night, I went there last night for dinner, so that was like a nice highlight of the week. So I feel great. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 54:08

I'm really good. I actually just booked a cute little Airbnb for Dave at Nine Amsterdam. Oh, yeah, how exciting. Yeah, I've never been. So I was looking at different parts of the city to stay in, but I love a city for two days. I really like a quiet little quaint. So you know what? I booked summer just outside. Plus, I also just learned while researching Amsterdam that it is like one of the most expensive cities to stay in because it's everything's so tightly packed. Yeah, and apparently since COVID, it has gotten like crazy. So I was looking at really well, depending on what time of the year you go. So I was looking at different places that friends had suggested, and I'm like, that seems outrageous. Anyway, that coupled with the fact that I also love a big city for two days max. I'm very excited that I just yeah, found this really sweet place. I okay. Every time Dave and I travel somewhere, I always I like to do all the planning and researching, really love doing it. And so he's like a passenger princess. Like we land and he was this is my husband's. Yeah, yeah, I love it. And so what the last time we one of our favorite places we ever stayed was this place in France in the middle of nowhere. It was so small that they didn't even call it a hamlet. Like, I I can't even know what they call it. He was so small, the neighbor came over and was like, Okay, you need to know where to go to get eggs. Yeah, it's it so David was sitting outside. There was like the Airbnb was next to this beautiful farmhouse that had two dogs, really playing with these dogs, sitting outside, looking at literally just like the countryside, having a glass of wine. And David goes, Did you Google like the quietest place in all of France where we will see zero people? And I was like, basically, David.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Luckily, we really both like to travel the same way. So we like to be in it for a little bit, but we like to be in the quiet. So I'm I'm looking for that like anticipatory feeling of going to do something. It's it's almost even better than doing the thing because I just booked that. I'm in a I'm in a very mood, and I really appreciate you taking time out of a busy day to chat with me and share all of these things, like about PR for sure, because I was very curious, and there's a million more questions I could ask you. But what I love about talking to you is these aha moments, like these really insightful things that it like no matter what business you're in, or if you work for yourself or you don't, or if you are vegan or not. Anyway, thank you. I love ya. Bye, Amora.