TOS of Making Clothes, Losing It All & Finding Your Anchor Points

Rebecca Rowe believes your body has never once been the problem. The clothes are. That's why she is so steadfast in helping people find themselves in their closets - and in their day to day. 

This week Nadine sits down with Rebecca, education-led personal stylist and former fashion designer, to chat about everything from the fashion industry, to studying at Pratt Institutes's School of Design and ESMOD Paris, to building her own clothing brand and the studio flood that destroyed her entire collection, both sewing machines, and years of hand-drawn patterns overnight. 

We talk about why she walked away from the brand instead of rebuilding it, and how "this feels easy" became the compass she followed instead.

This is a conversation about anchor points instead of body types, why she refuses to do colour analysis, and the seven real reasons closets get stuck. 

If you've ever stood in front of your closet and felt like nothing fits - and not just physically - this one's for you.

@the_otherside_pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Other Side Pod. I'm Needine. We're not experts. We're just humans having a human experience we think we can learn from, or relate to, or laugh at, or cry over. So hit download, dive in, and hear how folks found themselves on the other side. God, I'm so excited because we're recording with Rebecca and I get to talk about clothes and shopping. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. Yeah, um, this is a four-hour podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Exactly. Like buckle up, grab some wine, like that's making a thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Oh my god, we really should have done this with wine. Um, the lovely Rebecca Rowe. Okay, do you have one item in your closet? Could be jewelry, could be a pair of shoes, could be a bag, could be uh like whatever clothes that you treasure the most, and if so, why? That is a good question.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Um, okay, so there is one piece of clothing in my closet that I treasure the most. It is, it's gonna sound so stupid. It's like um it's a belt, but it it looks like a like a necklace, like it's a like a metal link belt. I got it when I was in Jordan with my family when I was 15 or 16. I carry this belt around and I hardly ever wear it. I should wear it more, but um, it is one of those things that when I was traveling as a teenager and a young adult, I would pick up jewelry every place that I went. So I didn't have any of those t-shirts that say iHeart New York or anything. It was always like a ring or a belt or a bracelet or something, and and for whatever reason, this belt is uh the one that stuck with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

I love that. I mean, when I was younger, I definitely didn't think that way. But from my 20s on, when I really start to appreciate clothes or start to really find a love for them, I do the same thing. Like, okay, on the flip side, because that brings me, this brings up another memory for me. Have you ever been somewhere and you're like, I haven't found that thing to remind me of this place and then bought something that you're like, well, that was a total waste of my money.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Oh, 100%. I feel like we do that all the time. Like you you're kind of like, oh, I should get something. And whether it's on holiday or at a mall because you're shopping, I don't know if anyone could see, I guess this podcast can't see that I'm holding my hands up with like air quote quote unquote shopping.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I mean, go to YouTube, you'll see it exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

But you feel like you should buy something, so you do, and you're like, why did I do that? Now I just have this mug that says Roma for no reason, but I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I bought this. I mean, it's a ring. I I I've since given up on it because I never wore it. It was so it was so outrageous. But I was in Paris with my friend 15 years ago. It was my first time there, and we had this like really sweet, I think it was like a quick like four-day in and out, which kind of I feel like people do in Paris. And the whole time I'm like, I'm gonna find something that's always gonna remind me of this moment. Stress spot because three days into it, I wasn't shopping a lot. He wasn't a big shopper, so we were, you know, we were just like walking the streets, taking all in, eating baguettes and croissants and drinking wine. And then I was like, I gotta get something so meaningful. So I also made it have to be, it didn't have to be a certain price point, but it wasn't gonna be a simple mug. Like I needed to be something. And then this flippin' ring, it was, I I mean, I can kind of picture it. It was like uh it was huge, it was on my pointer finger. It wasn't even like beautiful, it was just weird. And I was like, this is cool, it's high fashion. I don't know what I convinced myself about, but I spent a ridiculous amount of money on it, which I definitely didn't have at the time. And I mean, I think I kept it for years, probably like eight years, because I felt so guilty about it. I never once put that ring on and went outside my house. Not one time. Anyway, Rebecca. Okay, when you were younger, were you a good dresser? No, yes, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

It's sounds so funny to say that loud. I would even say right now, like as a full-time personal stylist, I dress well, but not high fashion. I don't dress interesting. I kind of just dress like me. And I was thinking about this this morning because I was thinking, oh, what am I gonna put on, you know, because I gotta be on video. Um, and I'm looking through all of my clothes and I'm like, oh, they're so boring. They're so boring. But I think what's interesting about that is that you get into your own rhythm. And so even though, you know, I'm wearing three prints today. I know you can't tell what my pants are, but I'm wearing a bunch of different prints today, and I'm like, oh, I'm so so boring. Um, and other people would look at me and be like, you're crazy. You have three prints on, and almost you get used to it. So I think there's something that gets into it where you go, oh, this is just who I am, this is how I dress. And you stop thinking of yourself as being a good dresser or a bad dresser. And the only time that you really think about it is when other people start commenting. And because most people don't comment on my appearance at all because they know better. At this point, I've trained them, don't comment on my body and don't comment on my clothes. Uh, I just start started thinking, like, oh, this is just this is who I am, this is how I'm doing it. But when I was- You don't think it's interesting. I just I grabbed the first thing because I've worn this outfit before, so I'm like, yeah, I didn't I didn't even try. But uh, but that's the thing, it's like you get used to it. And when I was younger though, I mean I've been six foot one since I was 14, 15. Trying to navigate that height at such a young age when you're not used to it and there's seemingly no clothes available to you. I started dressing, I would say weird or quirky or creative. Um, would I classify it as good? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

I was also quirky when I was younger. I remember my brother once said, Do you just like roll out of bed and put on what's on the floor next to you? And I was like, I remember looking down, I was like, is this not cool? Because it was again, I love the word quirky. Cause yeah, I'd have I'd have plaza pants on. Like me and Dorothy Spornak from Golden Girls would wear plaza pants, but like she got away with it because she's, I don't know, at the time in her 50s. It's like 15. I'm like, aren't these cool paired with like a long knit cardigan? I definitely wasn't, um, but whatever. I owned it. Um, okay, introduce yourself, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Oh, yeah, that's right. Um hi. My name's Rebecca Rowe. I'm an education-led personal stylist in Ottawa, and it just means that I like to teach people about how to use fashion as a tool instead of you know, shop for them. How did you get into that? It's so cool. It's actually a really interesting story. So I let's actually, I'm gonna before we get too far into it, um, I will say, just you know, for the record, that there isn't a certification, like a real certification from a university or college for styling. The first one came out in 2009, I believe it is, and it's there's only like one program, and it's offered in New York. So I'm older than been in 2009. Um so when I went to college, I actually went for a fashion design program. So I have my background in fashion design. I'm a BFA from um, I started my education in New York, uh at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, and then I finished it at Esmod Paris. Um, so I know how to make clothes, I know how to um build a fashion brand, and that's kind of where I got my footing in fashion. And that's why when I teach about style, I use a lot of formulas because when I was learning how to pattern make, you pattern make flat on paper, or the way that I was taught is you pattern make flat on paper and you use the math. So this is how you know where the elbow is supposed to be, this is how you know how deep the V is supposed to be in the front, et cetera, et cetera. So I had my own fashion brand for about eight years when I graduated from college. And yeah, it wasn't until recently, uh I would say like 2022, that my studio flooded and with it all of my collection, um, as well as a lot of my patterns, and all of my patterns were on paper. Oh, Rebecca. Oh yeah, it was it was there was there was many tears and many of the phrase I hate my life. My husband hates that phrase, but that's that's the phrase that came out for a little while. But what was interesting about that time is that because I was forced out of my apartment because they were repairing it, um, and I still needed to make money. And people started saying, Oh, well, you have time now. Could you help me with this? And now this being like going through their closet, working out their personal style, because I was able to explain it in a way that most creatives don't explain style. I can use math and formulas and things that make sense to someone whose brain thinks more analytically. And so I started really enjoying this and figuring out new ways and phrases to say to have things stick so that they could repeat it. And as soon as that kind of clicked for me and for the clients that I was working with, next thing you know, I was getting, you know, one client would go to work on Friday, go to work on Monday, look fantastic. And all her friends were saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, how'd you do that? And then I got to work with a couple of their friends and their friends to do the same, and et cetera, et cetera. And now three or four years in, I am I'm full-time, and it's really quite a magical experience.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Oh my okay, I have so many questions because we just met a couple of weeks ago, and immediately when I was like, What do you do? And you told me, I I mean, my eyes, my pupils, I don't know if you noticed, they just formed heart shapes. Like Kelly Podcast. Um, so I didn't know uh, well, I didn't know you went to school for um design, and I didn't know you had your own brand. So can you tell me a bit about that? Like what even got you thinking of going to school for that? Like back back let's back way up.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Oh, let's go. You know what's funny? We're gonna go way, way, way back into the time when I don't know if you remember the story, but it's Zellers. Every Canadian remembers Zellers of a certain age. God, yes. So I remember, and now I actively remember this. My mom has told me the story too, but I remember being like it must have been four or five years old, or walking through Zellars, and then there was um Lizzie McGuire merch in cellars, and I remember asking my mom, where did the clothes come from? And she said, Oh, well, that's someone's job. Someone's job is to design the clothes, make the clothes, sell the clothes. And I said, Cool, that's my job. And she was like, Are you sure? Do you want to like pick something that's more stable? Maybe something in the sciences. I was like, nope, that's what I'm gonna do. And she was like, Okay, whatever, she's five, she's gonna grow out of it. Well, I didn't grow out of it. In fact, I grew up, and so as soon as I hit that kind of growth spurt, I started making my own clothes, and then I started saying, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how old were you? First time I made a skirt that I wore in public was probably like eight, and I got really frustrated with a sewing machine, so I duct taped it closed, and I was just rocking like this duct tape skirt thing, and I were eight years old. I started making clothes really early because of this growth spurt?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Is that what's is that what like motivated you to do it?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, and like part of it was the growth spurt, part of it was this was something that I was interested in. So my mom definitely and my parents definitely pushed it. They said, you know what, if you're interested in it, go for it. Sewing is a skill, learn it. So I started uh learning how to do that, especially when my legs grew longer. I started making my own pants because I needed pants that went to the floor. Uh, same with dresses, and I would just pick up any sort of fabric. I remember making things out of tablecloths and like old sheets, and so by the time I was going to college, I had already a good set of sewing skills under my belt. Yeah. So you learn self-taught? Self-taught and uh went to different classes around Ottawa. First time I made a suit jacket was out of class. Um, my mom is not a skilled sewer. What about your dad? Nope. No. Uh they can build stuff. Okay. Well, both like both parents were very good at building stuff, but um, when it came to actually like sewing stuff, not their forte, so they put me in the class. So I went to I remember going to a Richard Robinson class when um when I was a kid, uh, they started teaching me how to use a sewing machine, and then I went to another class that taught me how to make a suit jacket, and they taught me how to use a sewing machine. And all once you learn one sewing machine, they're all very similar. So yeah, then you just kept keep going, keep practicing. You're sewing with paper for a really long time.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

I love this. Eight years old. Did you make your own grad dress? Did you go to your prom?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

So I was actually homeschooled until grade 11. Um, so I didn't have any sort of like grad stuff or prom until I went to high school. And um that time, grade 11, 12, I wanted to be very much like everybody else. So I went shopping with my friends in a mall and we tried all the dresses, and um, I ended up buying my my prom dress, um, which I ended up actually wearing to college. I just like it was a shorter dress instead of like a long two-floor dress. Um, so I ended up just putting a jean jacket on and sneakers wearing it into college. Of course you did. Of course you did.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Um, okay, this is so cool. So you're making your own clothes. Are friends asking you to make your their clothes, or are they like, your style is too out there for us?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Uh no, actually. Like I sold my clothes for I mean, uh, when I started selling my clothes, they offered to buy it. And then I did make things for them um separately. But a lot of the times was they were they were very supportive and said, no, like I want to buy from your brand. So uh to this day, I have one friend who she still wears pants that I made, and that was they must be four or five years old now. And she's just like, so if you wanted to start sewing again and making me another pair of these pants, and I'm like, one day.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I lost the pattern, so uh okay, where where to even begin? So you graduate from high school right away to go into design school in New York? Yeah, I actually yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Oh, I was gonna say I applied without telling my parents, and then I accepted without telling my parents. Um which was funny until the price tag came in and they were like, How are you gonna make this much money? And I'm like, what do you mean? It's college. How much money can it be? It can be a lot of money actually for an international student to go to school in New York. Um, so and it was it was an interesting experience because I was international, but I sounded the same and I looked the same, and I didn't speak any other languages, so it was a very interesting experience going and saying, Hey, I need you to take an English proficiency exam just to make sure that you can speak English. And I said, But what other language do I speak? I'm talking to you in English on the phone. I don't okay, sure. Did you want to let me do it? No, my guidance counselor kind of was was very good at her job and was like, Okay, she's Canadian. Like, yes, she's good. I'm like gladly, I'm gonna nail this. I'm like, perfect. But uh yeah, no, it's an interesting, interesting one for sure. Um, but yeah, I went straight out of uh out of high school. We were walking around campus and my dad was still saying, you know, oh, is there any science classes that you can take? And I said, no. They were really like no, there's not.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Uh Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Wait, how what year is this? They moved there. Graduated high school. I guess it would have been 2010. And you're just like in Brooklyn at what, 18?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

19?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Uh I turned 18 right after school started. So yeah, 17, whatever. Best time. It was it was a really good time. Like, I think there's something to be said about leaving leaving your home kind of earlier. Uh, did force me to grow up and like have it these experiences that other people are having just later. Um I'm also like I said, like I'm a bigger person. So my parents were never kind of worried about me in that respect. Um, my dad used to make a joke that like no one's gonna attack me because they're gonna be face to face with me. And I said, but that's good enough. But um I I also was never taught to be scared, you know. So I was taught to be aware, but I was never taught to be scared of my surroundings, and so I think that really helped in that that situation.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, you just never questioned it. You're gonna go live in New York at 17.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

It didn't help that my dad also immigrated to Canada and that he um he used to live in London, like he did the same thing, he went from middle school to his college, like from a small town in northern England to London, UK. And they said, Okay, go do it. Right? So he had had that experience of moving to a bigger city. He said, Okay, don't do anything stupid, don't do anything that's gonna get you hurt. And I said, Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

You know, I was conversation with my mom the other day. We were we went to London together for a few days. Funny, like we're talking about London, but we were there, we're walking around, and I'm like, mom, when I was 19, I told you I quit university and I'm moving to Dublin. I didn't, I don't know why I chose Dublin. I just chose it. It just I think I'd I I actually I do know why. I met this um one of my friends, I just met her that summer. I'd volunteered with Shakespeare by the Sea in Newfoundland, uh, which is like a theater company. It was really fun. And I met this woman, uh friend of mine, and she was like, I don't like university. I'm like, yeah, it sucks. And she's like, I kind of want to move to Ireland. I'm like, let's do it. And my parents have this story, they're like, we got home from work one day and you just had a pamphlet. A pamphlet. It was 1998. They're like, you had a pamphlet or 1997 uh of Ireland on the counter. And one of us said, like, why it's a pamphlet? And you said, Oh, I'm moving. Anyway, it's such a long story and it's delightful. But I can't believe it that they let me go. I'm like, mom, I quit university. I was 19 and I landed in Dublin and I had nowhere to stay that night. I had no job, I didn't know anybody, and you didn't even make sure I had a place to sleep. She was like, you know what? We worried a lot and we had a lot of like behind the door conversations, and we were just like, she's young, she just has to figure this out. And she was like, it's not that we didn't want to stop you, we stopped ourselves from stopping you, and you figured it out. And it was, I can't imagine, I'm not a parent. I can't imagine letting my kid just go do that, like your parents did and my parents did. I mean, you had a place to stay, that's great, but still, you were 17 going to Brooklyn. Like, just it's gotta be a lot to just be like, okay, fly.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Like, do the thing. At that point, though, it really is like it's such a testament to both of our parents that they trusted us enough to say, you know what, they're gonna figure it out. Yeah. And I bet you that experience shaped the way that you see the world.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Oh, totally. Bless my parents. Um, okay, so you're in this program at the Pratt Institute. How many years is the program? It was four years. Okay, and I didn't sell one of them.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Okay, how come? My dad passed away after my freshman year and I came home.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Oh, Rebecca, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

I mean, it was a long time ago now, but thank you. Uh it it was a big shock to everyone's uh system. So I came home and was there for about a year before saying, okay, enough is enough. Let's go and finish my degree. Everyone is called like I have I'm the oldest of three, so my other two brothers also were processing. And so I looked through my options. I applied to Ryerson, I got into Ryerson, went to Ryerson for a grand total of four days, and then dropped out because I was like, this is not it. Um why? What was the difference? I couldn't tell you. It was a vibe. Okay. Um like it almost felt like Toronto was pushing me out of it city. Like the apartment that I had set up sight unseen said, Oh, I didn't realize you were coming. And I'm like, even though I paid the deposit. Um, so I rented out your room, and I'm like, cool, we'll kind of have my deposit back. Um then I went into the classrooms, and there's too many kids, so not everyone had a place. um a desk but they do that so that because they know that people are gonna be dropping out but when I had no idea but when I was in New York yeah I was in a classroom of 22 yeah and I was told point blank we are all told point blank that out of the class of 22 there was gonna be six that graduated what yep they were gonna like change programs they were going to drop out there was something that was gonna happen there's only gonna be six of us at the very end and I think they're mostly right um I can't remember who would have graduated from my graduating class that was a long time ago now but uh it felt very much like you are here for a reason and I am telling you right now like be one of those six we want to see you succeed whereas like in a room of a hundred people saying hey guys there's it felt like a money firm I guess is the best way to say it and I don't take that lightly so you know I was a server I was a server for a long time couldn't find a serving job so it was like what am I doing here? And then I have a British passport uh so I applied to school in mu in Paris and I applied as a European citizen because Britain was still part of the EU and they said absolutely of course we want you you have a lot of talent so I got into the school in Paris and I left that I guess September or whenever I guess so I don't know I can't the timeline getting real fuzzy but I I remember leaving uh Toronto and I remember getting to Paris and the apartment I set up was perfect. The roommate I was there was perfect I mean everyone has roommate issues but like she was there she was paying her rent I was there paying my rent everything worked out the school was fantastic I had a really great experience again being part of a smaller cohort of students and I had one teacher who was Parisian and one teacher who was from Stockholm and the two of them played so well off of each other and just the responsibility for the arts is still very prominent in Europe. And so there are things like when you have a live model for one of your classes you're you're there on time. And if you're not there on time there's a very strong boundary of no, you don't get to come into class because someone is here nude to be like the model for your art for your art class and it's your responsibility as the artist to yourself and to them to be there on time. And so we had a lot of respect that was built into just the way that things were being done and I didn't feel that same respect when I was in Toronto. And I can't say for how things are in Toronto right now. I've been to Toronto a million times I'm still very proud Canadian I'm not saying that I'm just saying like at the time Ryerson wasn't it for me. And you know what's funny I it took me so long to get into Ryerson like they did not want me at the beginning I wasn't immediately accepted because I my math in high school was one percent too low. I had a 74 in math and they wanted me to have a 75 and I called them and said are you can I just redo this class and they're like yeah and I'm like am I in if I redo this class they said yeah so I redid the class I got in the second time passed with like a much higher grade and you redid high school math I redid high school math to get into a call to a college that I did not want to be in. Oh my God bless well I'm very I used to be very good at you know whatever kind of weird math I was trying to learn at that point. But no it's funny because I'm like now my I talk about math all day but right because you take it into your styling uh right okay you're in Paris for how long how long is that course it was uh 18 months because I did the condensed program because at that point I felt so behind and you know it's funny like we always feel behind especially like as women I don't know what it is but we always feel like we're behind in something I very much felt that taking the time off to be with my family and to um go through this whole Toronto thing put me behind. So I was looking for a condensed program to like finish my degree so I could be on the same trajectory as I was before um which is really funny because it just meant that I did have to power through I think it was yeah close to like 16 months 18 months or something but like straight through you don't have there's no breaks there's like the standard French holidays um but yeah I remember working like just straight through what is a standout moment in that program that like like flipped a switch for you like made you be like this is the right place or I'm good at this like do you have a moment that you can think of uh yeah actually so my uh teacher from from Stockholm she said to me oh you should get an internship and she said it to me privately you know um and I said okay where and she set me up with one of her friends who was had an LTA in Paris uh her name was Enica Stallstrom and I got to work there on the weekends and after school and she was a leather worker so I got to work with leather making these absolutely like beautiful skirts and dresses and like very edgy style which actually you see in in my styling today. Well so she influenced the rest of your styling like the for the rest of your days yeah to know she's just the cool I don't even know if she's still around but she's the coolest person and she was just so she was so ready to let me learn from her. Um and I think that knowledge transfer it's not something we see in the fashion industry a lot but it was something that was very much there and not even just with the clothing it was there with how here's how to run your business and here's how to do the numbers and here's how to you know interact with clients. So it was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I just had this really cool conversation um with Megan and Megan who owned Daughters of the river the jewelry makers and they said the same thing it was these mentors that they had not going after this paid mentorship it was like just women and it and it was always women I'm sure there's a lot of men let's just say that that mentor and that and and help and reach out but you know men get a lot of accolades. Let's talk about women for a hot second um they were like it's this village of women and that's why we're that's why we were able to learn the craft because right now I think that it's called wax casting and I'm like right it's it's and that's how it's been handed down. We had this big conversation about how crafts are handed down that way and a lot of times it's a lot of women join together in storytelling and sharing how to do this and not gatekeeping. It's like it's and and it's honestly why I started podcasting because I met this incredible woman named Carla Briones who owns um Immigrant Entrepreneur Canada or started that company or that organization and um a friend of mine connected us because he was like you will love this woman she also coaches she has a podcast she does incredible work and Carla in one meeting sitting at a coffee shop and I was telling her this idea for the other side including coaching and podcasting and she was like how can I help you? What do you need? Go do it and I'm like uh I guess I need a microphone again and she was just like don't overthink it go do it go do it and anyway all that to say I think it's like we can either have this idea that there's scarcity out there or scarcity and like hoard all this information or we can be like here you go create you go make something based on you. I'm never gonna be Rebecca you could show me all the things you know and spend the next year with me I'm never gonna think to create what you created.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And even if I use a pattern that you've had or that you've created I'm gonna make a tweak to it that it's gonna be me and not you you know so anyway it's interesting that you say that because even a couple weeks ago so fully established as a stylist in Ottawa another stylist in Ottawa said hey can I meet you for coffee and I said of course so let's go for coffee and so we do the pleasantries like oh have you been to this coffee shop before I'm like yes because I'm a coffee snob so I've been everywhere um and she says okay great tell me about your formulas tell me about this tell me about this and I've told the story a couple times to like a couple of my really good friends and and they said oh you did tell her did you I'm like I had a moment and I had it's funny I had like a sandwich in my mouth because I'm like uh and uh I you know I actively thought to myself I could tell her or I could say like no I'm not gonna tell you that and I decided to tell her wanted here's how I do this here's here's the formulas here's the math here's why I don't do color analysis here is why I don't do body analysis here's why all of these things and she said to me oh well don't you think that people want to look good and I said to her let's go back one step before that ask them how they want to feel and how they want to look because you would be so shocked at the number of women who say I don't want to look good I want to feel put together and the two of them are sometimes not the same like looking put together looking strong looking disruptive looking cool looking chic none of those words are in harmony quote unquote um whereas like looking feminine looking pretty those are boho or romantic whimsy all of those are words that belong in harmony and so yes there's a lot of information about styling in this harmonious world where we are looking at women saying oh well you have to look a certain way you have to do this you have to do this and this is where all this content comes out being like what's one thing you need in your wardrobe I like and my perspective is I can't answer that for you. I can tell you what would look the best visually I can tell you how to find that piece that belongs in your wardrobe but I have done over a hundred closet edits at this point and there is not a single thing that is on everybody's list except for maybe some underwear but even then that style changes so and she's like well what about a bra? And I said cool my mom's had a misctomy what kind of bra do you want her to wear right like does she need a bra?

SPEAKER_01 32:44

No there's nothing that she needs to hold up right why am I gonna force her into saying this so it's always sort of that perspective of like yeah transfer as much knowledge as possible get the other person to even start thinking about concepts especially if they're a little bit out of the box and she's never going to be you and there is enough people out there you know like 100% okay you leave or you finish a program in Paris was there any part of you that was like I'm gonna live here now not but I I was very interested in living in London and or Berlin.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Ooh um and the and the only reason for that is literally and it's so funny to say this but it comes back down to my stature. My stature in Paris stands out in a way that I didn't appreciate um whereas like in London and Germany my stature goes back to being a little bit more normal or seen I guess. So whereas in Paris I had a really hard time finding things like basic clothing because it was all made very small um when I went over to Germany or went into England there was a lot more options for me there. And so I felt a lot more just comfortable um I did end up coming home for a boy which we're going to avoid talking about because that only lasted like five months after I came home being like why did I leave Europe for this?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

But here we are. So now I moved to Ottawa same reason and and we split up but it just puts you where you are where you're meant to be probably the universe being like off all right put this in her path make or make that decision. Okay so you were you were gonna move to Berlin or London and then you met someone you were like I'm gonna go to Ottawa and then you stayed here. So I'm actually from Ottawa and so I had the boyfriend before I left for Paris and then we just didn't break up and then he was like are you coming home now and I was like oh yes yeah um but when you're there in Paris and you're having conversations with other people who are in your program and they're from um different areas of Europe and they're saying oh like you know you should come here there's an opportunity here oh you should come here do this do this you know of course your mind wanders into all of those things they did an internship in London and had a great time uh I was working with a with an eveningwear designer for London Fashion Week um and so she was like oh well if you ever want to work in London let me know and I'll put you in touch with people and I was like yes and then the boyfriend just being like can you call home to and I'm like yeah because also when you're when you're in your 20s you're like oh this is gonna be the person who I'm gonna marry totally alert it wasn't but here we are yeah there's a version of you that's living over there that's quite happy and you know but there's also a really nice life here as well you know I I I don't know did you ever see sliding doors with Gwyneth Faltrow back in like 1999 probably oh my gosh I was like that's a leave I'm not having memory of like yeah I'm sure I've seen it could I quote it no but no I can quote it but I see that scene a lot in my head of her heading toward the subway I think that was the pivotal moment where she either makes the subway or she doesn't and we have a million of those moments literally a million.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Okay you come back what do you do I started working at Muriel don't break clothes she is really great to learn from she is fantastic she's still around she's on the corner of I think it's like Holland and Richmond or Wellington yeah uh I think it's right before it turns into Richmond. Yeah she's incredible her clothes are beautiful beautifully made all made locally in Ottawa so I was working there with a cutter and a cutter is the one yeah who she like the position is cutting out the fabric to make the clothing. So I was working there for a little bit and uh ended up going back into service as one does in their 20s. So I started working at bars and restaurants and saying okay I did not go to Paris for this. And so I started my own brand um and I took kind of everything I had learned up until that point and then realized very quickly that uh learning how to make clothes is not learning how to sell clothes. So kind of had to learn on the fly and from a lot of really great coaches about um product-based business and what that looks like and how to market myself and all of that. So I spent probably the next till the end of the pandemic like working in my business, on my business, working with coaches, learning copywriting and social media and and all of these things and I was lucky enough that right actually before the flood I had signed with a rep. So uh a rep in clothing is like someone who takes your collection and like sells it to other stores. This was a rep that I had in she was from Alberta and so she was like okay let me take Western Canada so she had all of my clothes I remember I was screenshot actually of the first uh email that I got from her after she received the package of clothing and it was just like a bunch of letters and at first I'm like opening this like email saying oh my God what is she like hates everything and she's like what did I just do you know taking a chance on this woman um and the email says I've never seen plus size clothing fit this well you're amazing I can't wait to sell these and then a week later my apartment flooded my collection disappeared overnight and I sent her an email it through tears and alcohol saying you can't sell those clothes please keep the ones that um I sent those ones are for you but I haven't I couldn't I can't even sell them even if you did and uh so that was kind of a very abrupt ending I had to cancel so many orders that day so sorry that happened but yeah that's how things shifted but it you know what at the end of the day so the clothing brand that I was working with and the that I was working on it taught me so much so the clothing brand really was an exercise in all things business all things product based business and including working with a new size guide as I'm sure you guessed the women's sizing system hasn't been updated in a hot minute no and so I interviewed over 100 people which sounds like a small number until you realize that the women's US sizing guide was designed off 20 women stop it. The sizing guide that most brands use like generic sizing yeah it's based off it's it's under 100 women for sure I I've heard that it was over um based on 20 people now at the time that it was designed it would have been a hired position which means that the person who were signing up for these were like lower income women they were probably malnourished um and so I said okay well screw that and so I interviewed a hundred women who self-proclaimed athletes of any kind. Cool because I was athletic I still am athletic and I said okay I am so sick and tired of getting dresses that cut me off weird under the arms or blazers that I can't get my arms through or a million other things that were happening with my clothing. And so I said okay great I'm gonna interview these women I asked them all to donate or give me their their measurements they all did without hesitation I had so many like shoulder measurements and waist measurements and like the discrepancies between the waist and the hips so like I ended up building new blocks. So a block is you know what we use to start building clothes on top like you take the block and then you manipulate it into different shapes to make the pattern pieces. I built new blocks based on the measurements from the the averages of these athletic women and so my collection was ready to wear clothing for an athletic frame and I learned so much from that. What was it called? It was actually just called Rebecca Road. I didn't okay because like your name is made to be a label FYI everyone keeps saying that too and then when I got married they're like oh are you gonna change your name and I was like no he can change his yeah I'm not changing my Rebecca wrote no thank you um okay so this flood happens and you lose all the patterns you've made and the clothing that you've made it's destroyed in the flood.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Okay and then let's just like have a moment for the tears and the cancelled orders and the what am I gonna do with my life?

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Do I build all this back or or or what made you decide to shift from building it back to I mean I know you said like a friend said hey you have time can you come to my closet but there's also a lot of times since that moment where you could have been like okay I'm ready to build back Rebecca Rowe but it looks to me from the outside looking in as someone who's just met you it looks like you're really building up Rebecca Rowe as a stylist so how do you choose which road I suppose and is there ever a time where they come together to be honest at the beginning of the past splitting a lot of it came from is there funding is there a way is there any sort of help from government at all or um to get started with this project again because when you're living in a hotel and you know you're relying on your insurance to help cover some of the costs there's not a lot of money to go around um right so at that point I realized that tailoring is not a red seal trade so I am not available like any sort of grants are not applicable to me. It also meant that things like I couldn't get an intern to help me with sewing or to help me with any of these things. So you know having applied for a million grants and they said you know you say manufacturing they think cars and you're like no it's not really cars but also I do need a sewing machine and it's called an industrial sewing machine and they said oh well we can't give you a grant for that and I'm like cool but it's like two grand so like no your sewing machines were ruined as well yeah I lost two sewing machines in the flood and I'm lucky that my industrial sewing machine the motor is um it's it's built into a table I guess is the best way to describe it uh and my motor's up high enough and I first thing I noticed when the water was coming in is I unplugged it um and I moved the outlet the cord up on top of the table and so it did it did save my my big sewing machine but I had two um other sewing machines so it's called like an overlock it's uh the sharp sewing machine that does the four threads. That one unfortunately had a space that it was living on the floor because It was portable, but those machines are like, Yeah, they're like two grand. Didn't think of anything of it because I needed this, I needed the counterface uh at the time. And so instead of lifting it up off the ground, I let it drawn. Because I was trying to save other things. But yeah, either way, so not having any funding and then fighting with the idea that my country doesn't see what I do as a real job. Because even fighting with insurance, they were saying they're they just couldn't understand what I did. And I said, Okay, but I I make clothing. And they're like, right, but so you're manufacturing. I'm like, yes, but like, no, I'm like, I'm a small designer. They're like, Great, so like how much is these patterns worth? I'm like, in my time, like if I was being paid a commercial pattern maker, like $60 an hour, and they were like, okay, but you can buy Sorbot patterns for like $9. I'm like, okay, but so all of my patterns were valued at $9 a pattern. Like hundreds of hours of getting these patterns correctly, like figured out. And that was a big decision. Like, do you keep pushing on something that feels like it's pushing against you? And then as I started working with other clients, I started realizing, oh wait, this feels good. And I'm not a feelings person. Any of my friends will tell you straight up, like, don't go to Rebecca if you want like a hug, she's not the one. Um, when things started feeling quote unquote easy in business, I decided to follow it. And so as I started working with more clients, and you know, you start working with clients and you develop systems, and then it gets easier, and then you start realizing, oh, this is actually making an impact. And so I didn't know what I wanted to do when those paths were placed kind of in front of me. And now what I know that the biggest reason that I'm here and doing what I do is that I need to I want to start changing the way that women talk about clothing and separate it between their body and the clothes. And I think that mission is bigger than a clothing brand. Hey, say more about that. So when I work with clients and I style them, I talk about anchor points and I don't talk about their body types. So I don't do a body analysis, I don't use body types at all in my styling because the body types are only there to achieve a hourglass figure. Okay. And so I go one step behind that and say, Do you want an hourglass figure? And oftentimes they're gonna say things like, I want to feel put together, I want to feel pretty, I want to feel edgy, I want to feel cool. And I'm like, cool. None of those things is the same as having an hourglass figure. So if you want to feel edgy and cool, let's try this. Look for an anchor point at your neck, your waist, or your feet. You only need one to feel put together. Can we do it that way? And so often that's where I get the, oh, I didn't realize that my clothes could look like this. Or I've seen women start saying to me, Oh, I'm looking for an anchor point in my outfit, which takes the onus of the outfit not working off of their body and onto the clothes. Having been the one making the clothes, I can tell you point blank, the clothes are the ones that could be wrong, not your body. And the reason for that is clothes are man-made, clothes are mass-produced, clothes are made to be sewn faster and cheaper. And like all of the things that come with working in a company, your body, by the nature of it being a living thing, cannot be wrong. So I really appreciate every time someone comes to me and they're like, Oh, I follow you on TikTok or I follow you on Instagram, and I'm looking for an anchor point. And I really didn't think that a necklace could change the way that my outfit feels, but you're so right. And so that's that's what I'm trying to do. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

So walk me through. You're gonna come over and go through my closet, which FYI you probably are. Okay, perfect. That's lum.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Okay. Episode number two, guys. We're going through a closet, it's gonna be a lot of stuff. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Oh my god, fun. Right?

SPEAKER_00 48:07

That'd be cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah, that'd be so fun because block clothes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

So, first things first is we always have a call, virtual call first. You and I get on the phone, we make sure that my vibe and your vibe go together. Because if you don't trust me, that's the end of the relationship. It's never gonna work. So once you like, you know what, you're not crazy, and also you're a six-foot person coming to my house to take a bunch of my stuff. Perfect. Let's go there. Then I'll show up at your house, I'll make sure that you eat because sometimes people get really excited and they forget to eat. And I'm like, no, no, this is gonna be a day. But I set a time limit. And this is, I think, a really big important thing. So no matter what, if you're going through your wardrobe, set a time limit, not an not a task. Because you're gonna, I'm gonna start by asking you to make decisions. I'm gonna start asking you to make decisions over and over and over again, and that can take a lot out of you. So we're gonna go into your closet and I'm gonna start giving you different outfits to try on. And I like to say I'm gonna push on different levers until you push back. So there are five fashion theories. There's color, print, texture, shape, and details. And I'm gonna pick outfits that push really hard on each of those levers until you're like, this, I can't do this. This is too much. Then I know that that's the one that you don't like. And every time they say, Oh, I really like this, I'm gonna take a note of it and go, Oh, she really likes color. Oh, she really likes print. Okay, cool. Let's mix prints together. Do you like that? Oh, okay, yeah, she really does like that. Okay, cool. So let's try this. Let's try this. And so by puddling on those different levers, we can get to the two fraction theories you like the most. And it will help me understand the aesthetic that you're looking through. Like, uh, yeah, the aesthetic that uh is the lens that we're looking through everything with. And the aesthetic you probably already have in your closet because the pieces that are there, you wouldn't have them unless you like them in the first place. And some of the times people have things like, oh, that's a gift from my mother or my mother-in-law, and that one doesn't really count because I don't wear that, that I can't get rid of it because I need it for the once a year when she comes over and I put it on. And I'm like, okay, cool. So we're putting that in the realm of like that's a costume, we'll put that over to the side, same as with like your Sun jersey or like your uh different shirts for different days um of the year, like your candidate day stuff. And then we put it through your gender lean. And now, gender lean is just sort of like, do you lean feminine? Do you lean masculine with your styling? And which one makes you feel the most comfortable? So we can have men who lean feminine, you can have women who lean masculine, has nothing to do with the gender you're born in, and it's everything to do with how you you like to be perceived. And so for instance, I lean very masculine in my styling, so I don't feel super comfortable with like a v-neck, I don't feel super comfortable um with things like frills. I still wear dresses, but they lean more masculine, even though it's a dress. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so it goes through each one of your pieces piece by piece until the end of that time, or until you say, Okay, Rebecca, you can go now.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

I don't know that I'd get sick of it. Like, I literally like a Sunday and David's, I don't know, doing what David's doing. He's like, What are you gonna do? I'm like, play in my closet, and I literally try on clothes and send my mom and sister like outfit ideas.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

See, I wish more people would still call it playing.

unknown 51:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

All the while, by the way, I'm taking photos. I'm taking photos of everything we decide to keep. So at the end of whatever service we choose, you get a style guide. So every single time you work with me, you get a PDF guide of all of the clothes that are in your out in your closet, the different outfits you put together, and the different formulas that you like the best.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

This have you ever worked with a client that you feel like uh got stuck? What do you mean? Got stuck? Like people want you there. So I'm guessing if they want you there, they're ready to go through everything. But some people I feel are stuck in not seeing another option for them or not wanting to actually dress their body, they just kind of want to hide, and maybe that's okay. Um, or someone that's um not open to your suggestions.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

I have had one client like that, um, or perceived to be to be like that, because every single thing I brought to her, she was like, Nope, that doesn't work, nope, that doesn't work, nope, that doesn't work. And I was like, girl, what is going to work? You want all this? You're like grinning through being like, What do you want from me, bro? Um but you know what's funny is that those experiences turn more into almost like I don't want to say like therapy because I'm not a licensed therapist, and there anyone who is using therapy as part of their marketing as a stylist should technically have the letters beside their name. But it does turn into more of a conversation, and I am an expert in this field, and so it turns more into uh let's talk because usually when things are challenging, it's because of one of seven reasons. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's gifts, sometimes it's trust, they just don't trust that they're gonna be able to find other things. A lot of the times it's their body, and so it turns much more into uh let's have this conversation about your body, about what's changing, about what's not changing, and ask a bunch of like more pointed questions about like, can we work through this? Is there something that we we don't have to love our body, but we do have to respect it? Can we get to the point where what does it look like to respect your body in this way? The body that you have today, not the body you have tomorrow or the yesterday, the body that you have right now. And if that means taking the different sizes in your closet and separating them so that you have a section for small, a section for medium, a section for large, and we keep all of it, but we separated it out, cool.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

But because whatever body you're in today, you have a section that you can pull from to get dressed, so it's not so deflating if you're like this is too big or this is too small, and it's not yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

So in that case, it's more about a reorganization. I have had clients who I just basically don't say anything. Like I come to their closet, we put everything on the bed, and they talk at me basically, but I also recognize that they need to talk it through to get them to the spot where they feel comfortable to let things go. And like there are so many conversations that get bound to clothing, um letting go of the person you were, like letting go of the idea that you might have another kid, and I'm asking you to let go of your maternity clothes, like letting go of the person you were before you got married, letting go of the person you were while you were married. Like there's a lot of different versions of you that are held in these clothing, and letting someone take them away feels hard. And that's always where I'm like, you can take as much time as you need. Yeah, I also don't have to take the clothes with me, I can leave them here and then you can call me and say, Hey, Bex, I'm ready to let them go. I'm be like, great, next time I'm in your area, I will pick them up from your front door and I'll donate them for you.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

So part of your service is going through, helping me sort through my own closet, helping me pull outfits that really I really love and that help me feel like me out of my own closet. But then also sorting through things that no longer belong in my closet for a number of reasons. And you take them that day, yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

They end up in my car and they go to usually one of two places. They'll go either to dress for success if they are appropriate for a workplace, or they'll go to Thrive Thrift Select on their Indiana um on Mayorville.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

It's just like you drop them and donate them, not consignment.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Ah, I don't I don't mess with consignment. That's the one thing that I'm like, oh, that's too many spreadsheets for me. I will not be able to keep track of or anything. Yeah, fair. Um, but so the money stuff I will let you deal with. But if you're ready to donate it, I will take it and I will donate it for you.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Like if you do a pile of like, here's the things that you want to consign, here are the stores you can consign. Like, people can do that themselves, you know. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

And I have a I have a list too. If they're like, I want to consign this mic, here you go, here's everything you need to know.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Back to your style. You were like, it's not interesting. Say more. Like, do you love dressing? Do you love getting dressed?

SPEAKER_00 57:08

I I love getting dressed, I do not love shopping for myself. And part of that is good. No, I have I I still struggle with the um very Eastern European mentality of uh spending money on yourself. So I often don't. Uh I have to like talk myself into I actively talk myself into spending money on myself. Like the other day I ended up picking up a bolero jacket from Tribe. It's a vintage consignment or no vintage store on Gladstone. Beautiful blazer, fits me really well. Did I actively have to be like, no, Rebecca, it's okay to spend money on yourself. Yeah, like this is a $40 blazer, like it's fine. Like, just give her your credit card. That is still something that I'm actively working with. And I am not gonna lie, like having an athletic frame and having a very tall frame um makes shopping more challenging because a lot of my proportions are exaggerated. Um I have like quote unquote, like the clap, like a classic tall growth problem. So I have a long torso and long legs rather than one over the other. So finding pants sucks and finding tops suck.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

So it's like a frustrating process for you.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah. And I have a size 11 shoe. So between a lot of disappointment with do you have a 34 in game? No. Do you have size 11? No. Uh, do you have this in a size, you know, I need a I need a large, extra large for my shoulders, but my waist is smaller, so I have to take it in, and that just feels like more work. A lot of the times they come together where I'm like, I'll just I'll rock what I have until I have to metal meals.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Oh, I love shopping, Rebecca. I just I love it. Um, if you need a coach to help you spend money, I will call you perfect.

SPEAKER_00 59:01

We'll literally I'll go through your closet and you can help kind of take me shopping spent.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

My husband's gonna send you a note and be like, don't do it. If you succeed at this, say goodbye to your savings. Um, okay. So is there a favorite brand you have? Like, let's say shoes. Is there one shoe brand that you're like, I know for size 11? If anybody's listening that has size 11, here's Rebecca's hot tip: go shop here.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Options. This is gonna sound so funny because it's quite unquote an old lady store, but like naturalizer. They have size 11 and size 11 wide. So, like you're made, you got stuff, you have lots of options and actually Sam Edelman. I got some really cool shoes from Sam Endelin.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Have you ever been able to shop at Meguiar? It's like my favorite shoe store. They're from Montreal. I think they're sisters, they're down with size 11. I or if they do, it's like very like few and far between. Got you. Okay. I have a size nine foot. Uh although at Maguire, I think sometimes I go up to a 10. Uh, because I do have wide feet. But anyway, okay. I was thinking they have size 11. What about clothing? Like, okay, you gotta find a dress and you you can shop anywhere, not just uh in Ottawa, like just anywhere. Do you have a brand that you love?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

I've got so many brands that I love. Uh honestly, okay. You know what? Let's stick to Ottawa because there's a bunch of local shops in Ottawa that I feel like do not get the recognition they need and or deserve. Um let's have it. So, like in the market, there's so many good options, like at different price points too. So along York Street, actually, York Street has a lot of them, but they have like going from the far side, like close to Delhuzi, you have Darling Vintage, Fru Fru, Adorat. All of them have phenomenal pieces. Most of them are very strongly Canadian or consignment. Then, like on the far side of York Street, closer to Sussex, you have uh um Stunning, which is right there on uh in front of the Ottawa letters, and on the other side, you have Justines, and she brings in local Canadian designers. So, like, there's a local Canadian designer that like is made in Ottawa that sells there. Um then in the in the Westboro, you have Three Wild Women, which I know sounds like an old lady's store, but they have phenomenal pieces, and like 90% of their products are Canadian, actually, probably even more than that now. Like 94% of their products are Canadian. So if I'm looking for a dress dress, I'm actually going there. Okay. I've bought so many nice dresses there and like nice like like event wear, and I've taken people there. I actually my favorite purse that I get stopped on the street about. I don't get stopped on the street about anything. And I had someone and they're like, Oh my god, I love your purse. Where'd you get that? I'm like, three wild women, and they're like, Are you sure? And they're like, Yes, I know, but they're so good. And then there's our styla is down there too. She's a newer one, she used to be must. Now she's um our styla, and her vibe is so cool. Uh Flock, love Flock, love how many different Canadian designers are being brought in there. Um, and it's interesting with Flock because you get really petite friendly designers and then you get really tall friendly designers, so you can kind of shop everywhere and they go up to at least 2XL, if not more.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

So I love all these uh Ottawa shout-outs. That's excellent. I love a small business owner um and local and Canadian made. Um, do you go shopping with people? Like is that part of your service?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

Yeah. So after we go through your closet, I'll have a list of things we need. And it's usually kind of funny when I go through a list with someone, it's like, oh, you don't have any layering pieces. Oh, you don't have any shoes, oh, you don't have insert this, or sometimes it's becomes so easy to see. It becomes a lot easier to see when you're looking at everything as a whole, and when you have a list that you're going through, right? So if I'm looking for uh tops, bottoms, layers, accessories, and checking off kind of boxes in each category, and then I say, Oh, you just don't have any summer clothes. And then people go like, Oh yeah, that's all right, right? You just again you can't see the photo when you're standing in the frame. And so once I have that list, then we'll make a plan, or I'll make a plan, and then we'll go shopping together and we'll fill the gap. And I'll and I don't necessarily just take people local, I'll take people to a mall, I'll take people to an outlet, I'll take people vintage shopping if they're open to it. I love taking people vintage shopping if they're if they're at least willing uh to try, because that's the only thing. With a vintage shop or a consignment shop, um, I can't promise that the clothes are gonna be there, but yeah, now that we know what we're looking for, yeah, it's a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Um, I'm not a great vintage shopper simply because I don't like to be overwhelmed with a lot of different things. So vintage shopping, I only really enjoy it if I'm going with somebody else who does it, and then they help me like uh like pick through it all. It's um when I go away, I I'm like, oh, this would be so smart if I was really good at vintage shopping. Like if I'm in somewhere beautiful like Paris or something, I'm like, oh, I wish I knew how to find the vintage stores, the right ones, and like how to how to look for certain pieces instead of being overwhelmed by all the pieces. But I can see how having a session with you would be so helpful because it'd be like, hey Nadine, you're really missing, I don't know, like um the anchor piece, like whatever in the world, like a belt or a scarf or something, um, to really focus when you go in and look for something. That would be, I feel like that's how you even did shop. I don't know. Are you like focused with like I'm looking for these particular items?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

I no matter when or how we're shopping, I always like going in on the list because it saves you from that moment that we were talking about at the very beginning of this conversation where you feel like you have to buy something, and that word something gets overwhelming. Whereas like if you go in shopping, whether it's at a vintage store or at Zara, and you're like, I'm looking for a belt. Yeah, so much easier. So I didn't buy anything. Yeah, right. And so now, actually, on that note on belts, I really do recommend vintage shopping or um assignment, uh, because everybody gets rid of belts, these beautiful leather belts, and they're like seven dollars. And I'm like, wait, why am I spending $50 for plastic when I could be spending $7 on something leather? But I digress. Um get your belts vintage.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Um, for the first time ever, when I went to London with mom, because I, as I said a million times in this podcast, love to shop and I love to shop for clothes. Uh, I knew we would do a lot of that because she's the same way, and we both love trying. On a bunch of clothes, I went to London with a list of the things that I was looking for. So I'm like, I texted mom and I was like, hi, here's what I'm looking for when we're there, because I'm gonna get distracted. And I don't know if you like the Enneagram or not, but as an Enneagram lover, I'm a seven and constantly seeing my seven-ness, which is I want all the things, and it doesn't make me feel good. I actually, if I overbuy, I feel very um full. Like I don't feel good. I feel like I'm over consumed. And it's a weird feeling, but I physically feel it. And so I'm very aware of that now. So I'm like, mom, you gotta help me. I'll get overwhelmed because it's London and there's endless shops. And so I sent her a list of I think seven things. I was so specific. And then as I bought something, I was like, it's right on my list. And it it was almost like the universe was like, here you go, girl. Thank you for doing that. Ah, what a feeling. Okay, so your style, how would you sum it up?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Oh wow. Okay, so three words. Um just on like on the previous conversation, I love that you did that with your mom and that you shared the list with somebody. I think that just like, I don't know if this is going too woo-woo for you, but like manifesting what you want, right? Because then you're also telling your brain, hey, this is what I'm looking for. And so you're actively like setting out expectations and like looking for it. So I think that's partly why you're able to pass it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:23

Agree, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

And that's also why when you're like, I need something, you are never able to find it. Because your brain is just like I like it's over cluttered, and you're like, I can't find what I'm looking for. Um, then to answer your question about my personal style, there is definitely an edge to it. I would go so far as to say, like, I really like shape. Uh, so when I say shape, I mean those wide pants, like big shoulder pads, like um strong sleeves, like things like that. So I like shape, I like print, and I do have that kind of edgy, edgy creative style, and I mean masculine. So that's how I would describe them.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

I want to work with you so I know how to say what my style is because couldn't tell you. Um, I know sometimes I really like girly things, like I love a floral, but I also love very um monochromatic looks. So I I'm like a bit lost in between all of the things because I think I just I like a lot of things. So it'd be really nice to get some clarity around that and be like, what am I actually looking for? I also think we evolve in our style. Like I feel like every few years, I definitely have a major shift, probably not three years, maybe like five to six years. I'm like, I've I've really outgrown a lot of these things, and not just physically, sometimes physically, but mostly they don't represent who I am anymore. So I have some like really beautiful things that I love that I'm like, I would never buy that today. And I wore that and felt so me in 2021. Does that make sense? So is that like a thing that everybody goes through?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

I think so. Because also look at who you were hanging out with in 2021, look at their lives, how their lives have changed. Look at your job and how your job has forced you to evolve. If we were the same person that we were in high school, that would be weird. Yeah. Right? But we're and that's the thing, is like we're constantly learning, we're evolving, we're posting on the internet, we're not posting on the internet, we're getting a raise at work, we're getting more responsibility somewhere. We go through parenthood, we like watch our friends go through parenthood because like we are also a bit of the people that we surround ourselves with.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

Yeah, we're shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

So it totally it would make it would be more weird if you didn't use your clothing to represent who you are now, right? And I think for you, just because you enjoy going through clothing and and using it as a tool for self-expression, it makes sense that you're catching like the actual time increments. If you're not so in tune with how you feel and like then therefore represent yourself with clothing, that's usually where I get cold because I they they just feel like nothing fits, nothing, and they just keep saying nothing fits, and they don't mean physically, they mean mentally.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I have friends that are like, I don't get it. Like, I send them stuff and they're like, Yeah, that's you. And I'm like, nope, that's how I sent it. Like I want it for sure, but like it would be so beautiful on you. They're like, I couldn't pull it off. I'm like, what who what are you looking at when you look at yourself? Like, it's amazing in this. But I get it. If it doesn't feel like you, you're never gonna wear it and feel really good. And um, I just think, listen, I don't know how many days I get on this earth, and some days I just want to put on jogging pants, and that's great because I'm cozy. But I do really want to like, if I'm if I'm spending my day in an outfit, I want to feel really good in it. And honestly, sometimes I change like three times.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

Oh, dude, I will change all the time. Oh, okay, good. I was like, is that ridiculous? Not at all. But one of the things that I want every single person who's listening to this, who's, you know, who's not listening to this, who could like tell your friends down the road, and then you can sound really smart, is do not let the first decision that you make in the morning be one where you choose to make yourself uncomfortable. So just what you just said, you're like, if I'm gonna spend an outfit spend the day in the outfit, I want to feel good. Take that because there is a time, and I bet you can even you're thinking of it where you're putting on a pair of pants and you're like, oh, they're a little tight, but that's fine. I'll just deal with it. Why are we just dealing with it? Do not deal with your bra being too tight, you're gonna be cranky. Do not deal with that shirt that's a little bit itchy, but like looks really cute. No, because you're gonna be cranky and you're telling your brain that you're okay putting yourself last. Mmm. And Becca, this is why I'm saying I'm like, you want to know why you're in a bad mood? Change your outfit. Could be that there's something physically touching you, because you just need to remember like clothing sits on your body. So if it's too tight somewhere, if it's too itchy, if it's too is the uncomfortable. But I've never worked with a man who's like, oh, I just decided to wear that even though it was too tight. You know how many women I'm like, how like how does this make you feel? Because it looks like a little bit tight. They're like, Yeah, it's tight, but I'm like, could you drive a car? They're like, no, I would take it off to drive a car. I'm like, so you're gonna take the uncomfortable thing off to drive the car to work, but then you put the uncomfortable thing on, then to go home or go into your office and then type all it? It's too tight to wear in the car. Why? Because uh it's it's so tight on the shoulders, yeah. It's like because like usually if you're having a jacket, it's like tight around the bicep or the shoulders, and that's gonna like pull and you'll see the lines on your bicep. And so when you're lifting a child, when you're driving your car because your arms have to go straight out, I'm like, why are we making the decision to put ourselves last, ladies? Can we know right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

Putting yourselves last, right? Uh, okay. I could talk. Um, I mean, I know I say this a lot, but really I could talk about this for hours on end. I want to know two more things. One, for people listening, how long is um not the intake call with you, but like the day you come over and go through everything? About how long is that? Four hours. Okay. So like before an afternoon. Okay, okay. And then my next or my final question, I suppose, is what is the uh not like future plan for for Rebecca, not that you'd have a future plan, but like what is the outlook for you and how you grow this business?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

So it's interesting that you say that because that could be a whole other conversation online. So um, because there's only really two ways to grow a business in the way that the world has been designed right now. And one is to hire a bunch of stylists in my methods and become some sort of agency. And the other one is to treat me as talent and then hire the team around me to like find more opportunities to speak and to be doing podcasts and things like that. And you know what? I haven't really figured it out yet. Um, if I'm being completely honest. At the moment, I am really happy working with clients and making a difference in my clients' roles. At the moment, I haven't I haven't come up with the the business plan that I like that takes me out of that. Because I think that I don't know if I would get the same amount of satisfaction from sending out a team to go work with clients and then managing the team. Whereas like, but I also know that my mission is to get people to start talking about themselves a little bit differently. So that might be a conversation that I have to have down the road. But at the moment I'm really happy working as a you know solopreneur, um, as they say. But you know, I'll let that I'll let the universe uh tell me what they what it wants from me later.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Well, I mean, it makes sense that because what your favorite thing to do is to actually make that difference in someone's day and actually in their world by making that difference. And it's you can't replicate you. I mean, you can hire people and teach them in your ways, but no one's gonna be Rebecca, which is like a full 360 back to the very beginning. But yeah, I can see the I can see the options out there, and I agree with you. I think once you put them out there and you'll start to keep going along the same path that you have already chosen, which it sounds like you keep doing what feels really good and what not necessarily is easy, because I know running a business is also hard, even when you love it, but like what feels that it's giving you a bit of ease and it makes sense and it's intuitive. Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

And I think the more conversations I have with people like you who have more insight onto how different businesses work, then you know what it's gonna be a conversation that they have with someone that's gonna be like, oh, I could totally do it like that that I've just never thought of before. So it's just having more conversations being open. Like I like to say, like spreading that surface area for luck, right? Like letting the the universe kind of help you out that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

Oh, listen, Rebecca, I love talking about business and how to evolve it. So um when we hang up from this, yeah, we're gonna have a coffee date. Uh thanks for coming on and talking to me about all of this and sharing your story. I really, really appreciate it. You're um it's not the last I talked to you. Let me tell you that I'm left.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:29

Oh, I can't wait for our in-person coffee date and uh going through your closet. That would be fun. Oh my god, so fun. All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

Love you forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

Bye.