TOS of Unlearning Pain & Re-Mapping the Brain

What if your neck pain isn't actually about your neck?

Nadine has been calling Dr. Jared Gerston a magician for years and this week she finally put him on mic to explain why. Dr. Gerston is a chiropractor in Ottawa, but what he does in that treatment room goes so far beyond what you think a chiropractor does - so much so that Nadine genuinely couldn't explain it to people so she stopped trying and just started sending them to him.

This episode gets into all of it - a technique called PDTR that essentially asks your brain to stop compensating for injuries it thinks you still have. The visit when Nadine thought she had neck pain from her pickleball obsession while Dr. Gerston quietly traced it back to something emotional she thought she'd already dealt with. The way stress, grief, and trauma can live in your body long after your mind has "moved on", and what to actually do about it.

But it's also just a really beautiful conversation about a human who took a psychology degree, wandered through India and Nepal for fifteen months, spent five years in Taiwan studying Tai Chi, stumbled into chiropractic school almost by accident, built a thriving multidisciplinary practice and is now, at the height of it all, walking away from owning it to go deeper into something that makes his whole body relax when he talks about it.

This one's for anyone who's ever had a body that seemed to be keeping score long after they thought they'd settled the debt.

@the_otherside_pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the other side pod. I'm Needine. We're not experts. We're just humans having a human experience we think we can learn from or relate to or laugh at or cry over. So hit download, dive in, and hear how folks found themselves on the other side. Um I think uh eight years ago, seven years ago, and from the very first moment I was like, you're a magician. But before we get into that, um, I want to know what's your favorite way to move your body?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Oh, my favorite way. My favorite way is not the one I do the most often, but uh dance. I love dancing.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

This is why men love asking a question that you don't expect because I get an answer I could not even begin to expect. Like what kind of dancing?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Just dancing, just to music, just whatever, just moving and dancing and just feeling the music and just going. And that would be my my favorite, most um fulfilling way to move my body. I mean, I, you know, lift weights and I stretch and I've done yoga and all these things, but that would probably be my my favorite. The one that brings the biggest smile to my face, nourishes my soul the most.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

I want to go to a wedding where you're there because I feel like we won't leave the dance floor. You know what? I also love dancing, and I'm like, as uh at you know, in my 40s, I'm like, where do you go dance? And I get it. You know what? Um, what is it, the Elmdale? They have that the last Wednesday of every month, they have a DJ and it's fun, but I still feel a bit, well, let's be honest, I also like to go to bed at 9 p.m., but I still feel a bit like I'm 48 now. But a wedding, I'm like, yeah, baby. This is my chance.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, I uh I love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

All right, can you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, my name is uh Dr. Jared Gerston. I'm a chiropractor here in Ottawa. Um and back in a nutshell, me. And you also called Restore Health and Wellness, um, located in Hindenburg. We're a multidisciplinary practice with chiropractors, response therapists, osteopath, physiotherapists, and a naturopath and psychotherapist on site as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

When did you open?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

We opened in 2012 at a different location, just in Wellington West.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Oh. And then when did you move to Bayswater?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Uh 2021.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Oh, got you. Okay, so that would be when I found you when you maybe when you first moved, because I wasn't at the other location.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Yeah, and I think it was pretty early on when we first met.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Right. Um, uh, you were recommended by a friend of mine who literally said, I don't know what he does, but go. Because I think I've I mean I've been there so many times now because, well, you know, I love moving my body in different ways, and there's always something that comes up when you're in your 40s and you're active. But the first time I think it was my Achilles' heels were killing me. And I had just started a step um business movement practice, and I'm like, I just I just launched this business and I can't do it because my Achilles are I they felt like um they almost felt like they were cement. They felt they were so hard and they weren't flexible at all. And um, I thought they were gonna snap in half, and that's what led me to go see you. And then I don't know what it is you do, and I'm going to ask you so many questions about it, but uh not like you fixed me. I just what do you do? What's the name of it? Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Okay, so I primarily use a technique called PDTR, proprioceptive, deep tendon, reflexes.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Okay.

unknown 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

And so it's essentially a technique that um we're working on compensation patterns, but it's a technique that looks at sensitivities in the body, sensitivities coming from different tissues, basically easily stimulated um receptors inside tissues that are causing dysfunction in the body in some way, movement dysfunction in some way. So the premise behind it is that the the brain is keeping track of all of this information coming in from the body, right? It's keeping track of the position of your joints, it's keeping track of muscle tone, it's keeping track of your the pH of your blood, like everything is being tracked by your brain. But we're not aware of most of it. Now, oftentimes after an injury or a surgery or maybe repetitive strain, whatever it might be, there's um there's a tissue injury. Those tissues will heal, but there are receptors inside those tissues that can remain very sensitive and easily stimulated. And they're sending off all these signals to the brain, which are very disproportionate to what they should be sending off. They're these aberrant signals. It's almost like it's signaling to the brain that this area is still injured. So the brain pays attention to all of that information and then it makes decisions on how to move the body, what muscles to turn on, what muscles to turn off, what muscles to make more active or less active. But if it's getting the information, it's going to give faulty information as well. So what we're doing is we're affecting the information going up to the brain and we're clearing out that information so the brain has better information, and then it naturally will give better information going out, and it will help to sort out these compensation patterns that are occurring in people's bodies.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

I just want to tell people who's who are listening that if you go, you have no idea all everything you just said, I have no idea that that's going on because it sounds complicated, but you make it feel so simple because as a patient, FYI, because you've never you've never got to be in my shoes. As a patient, I go in and I'm number one, I'm I'm deeply, endlessly curious. So I'm I know I interrupt what you're doing and ask you a million questions while you're doing it, and I try really hard not to do that. But I'm like, I'm laying there and I'm and you've explained to me, it's almost like re remapping my brain, rerouting an old route that it's been compensating for because of an injury. Um, but it's almost like I'm lying there, it's such a peaceful experience because I can see your brain working hard to figure out what my body is doing. But it's like it's like this gentle touch on my wrist. And then, like, can you, you know, lift your leg up to here? It's just it's so therapeutic feeling because it's like a calm, peaceful experience while your brain is probably the opposite. You're like, you're you're constantly processing, trying to pick it up because I can see you trying different things. And then when you find, I can see like this switch in your head when you find the compensation that my body and brain are doing. It's so cool. And then I guess how do you remap it? Like, how how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

So, this uh this technique was developed by um a doctor uh named Dr. Jose Palomar. He's an orthopedic surgeon and uh has uh had an interest in neurology. And he somehow figured out that when you can identify these sensitive receptors in the body, having a reflex, like the same type of reflex that your doctor would tap with a little hammer when you go to see them, having that reflex somehow interrupts that this um interrupts the communication between those receptors and the brain and somehow resets the sensitivity to those receptors. And so they just go back down to normal, and then the brain all of a sudden just gets this this normal information and it's able to give that normal output again. I don't know how to figure this stuff out. He was he he worked for decades on this.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

How did you find him? How did you even know that that technique existed in the world?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

So I knew I knew of the technique that I knew that PDTR was out there through some colleagues of mine. So prior to uh being involved with PDTR, I was using a technique called NKT, which stands for neurokinetic therapy, which is another fantastic technique which uh works with compensation patterns in in the body. And uh used it for a few years uh exclusively in my practice, along with soft tissue therapy and some adjustments and rehab and all that kind of stuff. And it was a it was a great technique. We worked lots of patients, got much better, much faster working in all these compensation patterns. But I had a patient who was referred to me from a chiropractor in Toronto who I knew through the NKT world, and this person had a high hamstring strain that for like two years and nobody could figure it out. And I thought, ah, easy peasy, couple of visits, they're you know, the hamstrings are overworking, their glutes are not firing, this will be this will be no problem. I saw them like 10 or 12 times, and I made no difference whatsoever. I did everything I knew how to do. I was working on the hamstring, I was working on the foot and ankle, we were doing gait mechanics, I was doing core work with them, like everything I knew how to do, and it was no change at all. So finally I suggested that we video in the chiropractor who referred them, they're very smart, good practitioner, just get a second set of eyes and maybe a different direction to go. So we did that. Chirophractor takes a look, okay, do this, do that, okay, lie down on the table. And they start uh instructing me, you know, swipe here, taft here, folk here. And I don't know, I know I'm doing TDTR, but I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to interpret it all. Anyways, patient gets off the table. How are you feeling? Fine, but it only hurts when I run. Okay, I'll see you next week for your follow-up. They come back in a week later. How's it going? 80% better. At that point, I said, okay, there's something to this. So then I did what I need, what I had in my bag of tricks at that time, and it was another one or two visits, and it seemed to uh the hamstring strain seemed to resolve pretty well. So there was a course that was starting in Chicago soon after. That was in 2017, and so I went up to Chicago and started doing that course. And it's it's a it's an involved program, it's three levels, and each level is three, three or four four-day weekends. Like it was pretty involved. And I finished that in uh 2018.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Um, so when you go into this program, I'm very curious, do you uh have to, I don't know, not have an injury to kind of get the most from it? But I imagine when you're the patient, it it like seeps in in a different way. But I also have never gone to school for to be a chiropractor, so I don't really get it. But like do you somehow try to mimic being a patient? You know, when you like I mean, I also didn't go to massage therapy school, but like, you know, you practice on each other, but like, how do you practice on each other? Or yeah, how do you like fully get it? I don't know. Like, how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, I'm talking about like chiropractic school or the PDTR training?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

The PDTR, but then I'm gonna go back to chiropractic school too, because okay, sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So it it's interesting because it we have we are all walking around with tons of compensation in our body. We just for a lot of us, it's just not even relevant, right? But you can I can find something on anyone. Um, even if they have no pain, even if they move well, there's always something going on. So uh, you know, we worked on e we work on each other in the in the PDTR course. And yeah, sometimes there wasn't that particular dysfunction or issue going on with that person, but for the most part, it wasn't a it wasn't a huge issue. Um, I'll give you an example actually. So there's a section of PDTR uh where we work on something called primitive reflexes, these these reflexes that we're all born with that are overlaid by more mature reflexes as we as we develop when we're uh when we're uh infant. And um I thought this was just gonna be a weird and wonderful thing. And out of the 17 that we that we studied, I had 11 of them. So yeah, and I so called Yeah, so we have we have a ton of stuff going on with our bodies all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Can I have an example of a primitive reflex, or is it is it hard to explain? You kind of have to like do it physically.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

So a primitive reflex. So for example, um if a so these are all reflexes that we have when we are when we're born, and they help us to develop, they help us to move, right? They help us to to go into a crawling position or to lift our heads up or to turn our heads in different in different directions. And um, and as we start to age, those reflexes they go away. So, you know, I'll give you an example. If the um, like if a baby, uh if they're on their back and they they turn their head uh from side to side, they'll get an arm movement that happens with that. Okay, but if we as adults, we don't have that same that same reflex. It's been overlaid by a more mature reflex. Now, sometimes what will happen either due to missing a particular developmental stage, sometimes due to head injury, trauma, stress, sometimes we can get this little uh like an interference. These reflexes can come back in our bodies, they can show up again, and they can cause um they can cause various issue various issues. Some of them might be uh musculoskeletal, so relate to you know tight muscles or pain. Some of it can be a little bit more behavioral or uh or even emotional in some ways, uh a higher anxiety, things like that. And so um, so anyway, so there's a whole section in PDTR where we where we work on those. And that's something that I've been doing quite a bit in my practice uh recently.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

So remember when I was there, I don't uh I think it was um during this winter, and I was having, I don't even remember now, because you fixed it, but uh I think it was my neck, and I was like, oh my neck. And I was attributing it to pickleball because that's when I would most notice it. Like when I was crouched in like a squat stance, like kind of focus on the game. And after playing for two hours, I I thought it was the way I was crouched down and holding my neck to see where the ball was going, that that was causing my neck to pain. And I was like, oh, I don't know how I'm gonna keep playing and have this. And then I go see you and you were doing something, and you said, because we've gotten to know each other now, and you're like, I know you're I know you're willing to go there with me. Can you think about like, are you willing to go to like stress how this is affecting your uh neck? Uh uh, you know, like will you think of something that's causing you and the and you took me through this in like a more elegant way than this, but I'm like trying to sum this up for people listening. But you were basically like, do can we go there and like attribute this to something else, not pickleball, not something physically you're doing? And I was like, let's do it. And you tapped into something that was causing me a lot of stress that I kind of had pushed down, and you were like, There it is. And I swear to you, I have not had any neck pain since.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

So, like, is that a part of that primitive response?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

So that's not necessarily the for the primitive replexes, but that's when we're getting into the emotional component for pain, muscle dysfunction, et cetera. We all, I think, experience this on some level when we're stressed out. And so many times we put our stress up, you know, in our shoulders. We sometimes get headaches or our jaws get tight. And uh then when you pass that stressful point in your life, you get to the the vacation or you pass the deadline, sometimes you just feel that, you know, that that muscle tension just melt away. And so that can happen for various reasons. That can be like an acute stressor, like something like a, like I said, like a job, a deadline, something like that, or something, you know, major, like a like a life event, uh the passing of a loved one, a trauma, you know, these things can be held in the body like that. Where just like when we compensate around a physical injury, we can also compensate around an emotional injury. And those compensations are there to help support the emotional injury. But just like a physical compensation, after the tissues heal and those receptors remain sensitive, we're just stuck in an old, we're stuck in an old pattern, right? It's almost like we think that we're still injured even though we're not really. So, you know, given time or therapy or whatever it is, we start to heal from those emotional injuries, but sometimes we just get stuck in these old compensation patterns, and it's almost like we still feel like we're injured, emotionally injured, and so we hold on to these compensation patterns. So, again, there's some things that we can do, and and truthfully, in my practice, that so there is a whole protocol in PDTR that works with these emotional issues, but I I don't really follow that. There's uh some other work that I do, as you know, it's a little bit a little bit different, um, but it seems to work very, very well for this. And it just helps to kind of bring the subconscious mind and the conscious mind in agreement with each other. It kind of shows that subconscious mind, like, no, we're okay, right? Consciously, we're fine. We process that. And the subconscious can then let go of those compensations, it can then let go of that tension and that uh that's that dysfunction that's happening in the body. And I might want to add just one thing as well, because I don't know if I talked about it specifically, but a lot of the ways that we assess this is through very gentle muscle testing. So seeing, you know, can you hold your head in this position? Can you hold your head in this position? Can you hold your arm in this position? And just seeing what those muscles how those muscles are behaving and then and then seeing what affects those muscles. You know, does touching a ligament turn off those muscles? Does thinking about something stressful or traumatic turn turn off those muscles or really rev them up so that they so that they're almost uh unable to relax, right? So we're using these muscle tests to kind of assess how the body is responding to these different stimuli.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Just think it's so beautiful that you have done the work to bring out this part of um human nature, like the fact that we take something like traumatic or a major life event, a shock point, and we do a lot of work in therapy or with coaching or whatever to move through it. We get help from our family, hopefully our support systems, and then we think it's done. Uh, and then we're active and lifting and playing this and that, and go to you, a chiropractor, thinking like, okay, I'm gonna get a physical adjustment or or something. And then the fact that you bring your practice back to the emotional just makes my heart grow three times in size because not there's a lot of people that don't do that. And I just you give me a space to like actually figure out what's bothering me because I'll tell you in that moment, I really thought it was pickleball. And I and I'm also lifting a lot to like maybe it's the swap bar, maybe it's this, and I'm telling you all the things that I'm doing. And I know there's a obviously um uh a method to how you figure out, like, I think there's something else here with Nadine. And then you ask permission to go there, and I'm like, sure. Here's what rocked my world that day. You were like, can you think of a stressful event? And I can't remember what you were doing. Maybe you had a hand on my wrist or on my neck. I can't remember. And I thought of something so obvious to me because I was working on a proposal for this big project that I had um offered to, or yeah, a big proposal. And so I was like stressed about it because I wanted to do it really well and I wanted to get this uh project. And you did something and you're like, that's not it. Do you have anything else? And I was like, uh oh. And I'm like, okay, and I I don't even know what I thought of, um, but I was like, okay, yeah, this is also stressful. I'll think of this thing. And you were like, nope. And I'm like, oh God. And then you made me think of something that like I ate from a few years ago, and it was like kind of like, I guess it it does, I didn't think it sat so at the surface, but I guess it did. And then I thought of it, you're like, there we are. And I remember being so mad at myself because I was like, Lady, you've done so much work to like process that uh that major life event and that shock point in your world. And and yet it was still kind of like it, it was almost like ready to, I guess, um bubble out of me, but I was holding it maybe because I felt like I I left. It's not like you like fixed my life, but I left and I was like, oh, it made me connect to something that I was like, oh, I'm allowing that to bubble at the surface, I guess. And then that awareness helps me to kind of feel it and then let it go. But the fact that mentally I can think about that and know I'm doing the work, but physically the pain in my neck released, if it wasn't, if it didn't happen to me, I'd be like, what? How does that happen? I just so I don't even I don't even know my question is. I just want to thank you for doing what you do. But here's my question. Picture me in that day. I don't know if you remember, but like picture me that day, and I'm coming to you with neck pain. And I do remember you getting me to do different um movements and maneuvers to see how do you figure out that it's not muscular? Or it is muscular, but it's coming from an emotional compensation, not a I don't know if I'm saying this right, but muscular compensation or or skeletal, or how do you figure that out? How did you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

There's a um there's a process uh in the PDTR process, there's a um a way of establishing a hierarchy. And again, this all comes back to how Dr. Palomar figured out these um these different stimuli and all the stuff about the nervous system, but he figured out that there's a very predictable way that the that the nervous system responds to stimuli. And so when we stimulate something in a particular, in a particular way, I'm just looking for a particular response in your in your body. And it helps to determine that that is the top hierarchy, that is the main compensation, because you're going to have one top compensation, and then you're gonna have a whole bunch of other little compensations attached to it that kind of come down this chain. And you can work on any of those, and sometimes you know you can work at the bottom and get a really, really good result, or in the middle and get a really, really good result. But if you go to the top and you take away that top compensation, none of the other ones are necessary. They just all go away by themselves. So just using that process, using the PDTR process, it just showed up that that was the top compensation. That was the finally. So I think in your case, also as you're as you're relating all this to me, it's interesting. I wonder, you know, you said you were listening. Heavy, you were playing tickleball, doing all these things. I wonder if maybe those activities put a little more strain through that area, through the neck, right? And allowed this old thing to bubble up, which maybe wasn't really at this at the surface. And these things are all layered on top of each other, right? And they're all connected in some way, some amazingly complicated and incredible way. They are all connected to each other and they layer up on top of each other. So I wonder, I wonder how that all kind of mapped out. Like I wonder if that's what it was that kind of brought that to the surface, and your body was like, somebody's got to deal with this thing. It's here.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

And then I have you. Then I have you.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Okay, going back to like little kid Jared, what in the world led you into chiropracticing? Like, what were you like as a little kid? Were you always into movement in the body and curious?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And yeah, that's so that's so funny. I I I wonder, you know, how this uh chain of events all all laid out. Life is funny. Um, as a little kid, I, you know, I was very active for sure. I loved playing, especially climbing, lots of trees, uh, playgrounds. Um, I think generally, you know, happy kid, yeah, very curious, very into science. Um, you know, when I was younger, I really wanted to be an archaeologist or an anthropologist. And I was just so into, yeah, studying ancient civilizations. And I thought it'd be really cool to be on digs and do all these, do all these things. Um I went to uh I went to university for psychology. I was thinking I was gonna eventually actually I was taking minors in anthropology archaeology, and I was trying to figure out which direction I was gonna go, and I didn't think there were that many options in anthropology and archaeology, so uh yeah, academia or or kind of nothing else. And uh so I was leaning towards psychology and I started um uh studying psychology. But I think I always also just interested in the human condition, you know, what makes us human, what drives our behavior. Um, and so um so I went thus I started studying psychology and I ended up not going down that route, obviously. Uh I ended up um going to Asia for quite a while. I lived in and traveled in Asia for about nine years, from time I was 22 to 31.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

And um whole other podcast coming back to that, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Okay, so as a uh so it it's it's all a part of how I got to chiropractic for sure. Yeah. So I mean at the time it was just really I didn't know what I wanted to do with my with my life. It wasn't psychology, I wanted to to leave that, but I had a university degree and I wasn't too sure what I wanted to do. So initially degree in in psychology.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Oh, okay, sorry, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah, and then um, so I uh I left Canada and I I first I traveled, I went to India, thought it was gonna be a three-month trip, maybe a six-month trip. I was gone for 15 months. I was a full year in India and three months in Nepal. And um I studied yoga pretty intensively while I was there, and I was exposed to you know Ayurveda and Ayurvedic massage, and and then I ended up coming back home for a little bit, worked for a little while, and then went back overseas to Taiwan, where I lived for five years. I was there for a year, then left again, traveled around, went back, worked for another four years in Taiwan, and while I was there, I was um studying Tai Chi pretty seriously. And you know, you go to the Chinese doctor when you're sick sometimes, and uh acupuncture or you know, qi healing and tuena, which is a Chinese form of manual therapy. And um eventually I knew I wanted to be somewhere in this world. I wanted to be in health, I wanted to be in wellness, I like working with my hands, I like working with people. So I thought I was gonna go into massage therapy. And when I left Taiwan, I went to Thailand and I thought I'll I'll take some Thai massage courses while I'm there. They're relatively inexpensive, they're accessible, and I can just see if I like working with people on this on this level. And um honestly, it was one of the happiest times of my life. It was just such an incredible time learning and practicing. And so um uh so I came back to Canada, I think I was gonna get into massage therapy. Maybe time massage would be my would be my thing. And I was talking to a friend of mine and said, Have you thought about chiropractic? It's a pretty good, pretty good profession. And so I looked into it. I'd been to a chiropractic before. And um, I thought, you know, I'll just apply. You know, the school's in Toronto, and that's where I want to be. I've been gone for nine years, and I want to be with my family and my friends, so I'll just apply and see what happens. So I did, and I got called in for an interview. And it's a um it's they take, you know, there's about 600 applicants, they take up less than 200 people, so it was pretty hard to get in. The interview was very, very stressful. I thought I bombed it, and so I thought, no problem, I'll just stick with my original plan and and stick with massage therapy. And then I got an acceptance letter. So I had to sit with that for a little while and really consider it because it was a much bigger commitment than massage school. It's a four-year program, it's full-time, um, very expensive. And so I had a lot of encouragement from my family and a lot of support from them as well. And so I just went for it, and that's how I kind of fell into chiropractic. It wasn't necessarily that I wanted to be a chiropractor specifically, it was just I wanted to work with people in this way and in this field.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Okay, I'm so glad I asked you this question because now it makes sense why you are a chiropractor with this type of practice. This it's I'm like, oh, I'm connecting all the dots because you were always interested in something a little deeper than maybe Western medicine. Does that yeah? Am I saying that?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah, and just and just even a little bit, a little bit deeper, a little bit more subtle, right? Like, you know, talking, going back to sort of the emotional component, um you know, working with that real humanness, right? Like what is the mind, what is emotion, what makes us, you know, who we are, and and and what is that stuff, right? It is very, very subtle and it's very um, yeah, beautiful. And so to work in that way, I think it's uh has always drawn me, right? This world of energy and and heart and feeling, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, I agree. I'm endlessly curious and fascinated by humans and our habits and our nature. And um I also, funny enough, in my undergrad, uh was really into anthropology. I was like, this is so cool, and psychology. So that's so funny because I also thought I'd go into psychology and um long twisted story. I didn't, but but that's what I was really fascinated as uh in at the same age as as you. So you grew up in Toronto, yeah. Yeah, okay. Um, why did you how did you end up in Ottawa?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Oh, you know, different reasons that was um uh wanted to move away from the big city, wanted a little bit better quality of life, better access to the outdoors, didn't want to be in traffic all the time. So there was all of that. I have friends out here, uh, so I've been out to Ottawa a few times. It's not too far from Toronto. There's like a lot of logistic. Uh at the time as well, uh, I graduated in 2011. Not, I don't know, I didn't find the greatest job prospects in Toronto, but it seemed like there were some really good opportunities in Ottawa. And so um, yeah, so I came out here, I interviewed at a clinic that was out in Bell's Corners and um started working for a couple of guys out there, and they were they're very good chiropractors, they're still in practice now, but the clinic's not there anymore. And um, it was a very good experience, but it was very, very hard to build a practice there. And I had always intended on opening up my own place, and so I started putting all those pieces together, and um, it just came to a point where um yeah, I wasn't really making any money working for those guys, and so I thought I just won't make any money working for myself and just focused on on the store. So um, yeah, it's kind of how I came out to Ottawa and and wanted to establish this uh this practice. It was just a better opportunity out here at the at the time.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

So you always knew you were gonna open your own clinic, like even when you were in school?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Why? What's the draw for you?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

I don't really I don't really know actually. I just uh I just didn't see myself really like working for someone else necessarily. Like I just I just wanted to be a little bit more maybe independent and yeah, not an employee and just yeah, have uh have some have some independence and freedom to kind of do what I want and have things the way that I I want I want them done.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

How's a good one? How's entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I'm a fellow entrepreneur. Yeah, so it's funny, you know, when I when I first started out, I really was excited about the entrepreneurial aspect of it and running a business. And I was like really excited to like do marketing and networking and like do all this stuff. But um, yeah, I learned a lot about myself and actually I I don't love that part so much. I really like seeing patients and I really like patient care and and I like developing my skills and being introduced to new techniques and and uh that whole exploration I think is uh is much more interesting to me. And I I just love that aspect of it. The the rest of it, you know, the running the business and uh yeah, not I gotta be honest, not where my heart is.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Your favorite. So how do you do it? Like, do you have help? Um do you just like kind of buckle down and do the stuff, but then find your joy in your patient care? Yeah, how do you do it if someone else is thinking about this?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, I think that's that's how it's that's how it's uh that's how it's been, you know. I think it was, and at the beginning, you know, I had a little bit more uh time in my life, right? I didn't have a family, like I have I've got two kids now, I didn't have kids at the time. And so I was able to spend a little bit more time developing the practice and you know working on the website and you know, um networking and all these and all these sorts of things. And uh over time, I think I've got you know general systems in place where the day-to-day is pretty much run on its own, which is fantastic. Um uh I do have people who help me out. There's uh one of my associates has always been really great at uh um helping to contribute some effort towards the practice, helping you know with some training of our of our staff. And so I do get help for uh for sure. Um yeah, that's how I've done it up to this point.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

And like you were able to put systems in place so that it's like a well-oiled machine by the time you want to be pulled, you you're like, okay, here's my actually my favorite part of my career. And now I have kids, so I also want to, you know, have more of a balance. I'm I'm assuming that's kind of what happens when you have kids. Yeah. Um, so just kind of lucky that you built it when you had a bit more free time and you were a bit more like energetic for the entrepreneurial experience. And then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

What's so funny is before I opened my business um back in 2014, I was talking to my husband. I'm like, I'm so excited to like have a team and manage. And he was like, Oh, I do not like managing people. And I was like, Oh, I love people, I can't wait to do this. And then after I did it, I was like, oh my god, that's exhausting. But like you go into it, and I think it's such a sweet thing to go into it with like eyes wide shut, you know, like with this like curious, um, energetic like um generosity to all things. And maybe you love managing people, but like you really don't like the admin stuff or whatever. But like just embrace it all and then like figure it out as you go along, and then hopefully you get to like dive into what the parts that you really like and um either have support and help with the parts that you don't really love or um really great systems in place. But I get it, I also was the same way. I'm like, why doesn't everybody want to do this? And then after a couple of years, I'm like, oh, this is why nobody else wants to do this. I I always thought people were lying. Like I did my MBA and I remember there was like, I don't think there's anybody else in my entire class that wanted to be an entrepreneur. And it was my whole goal of doing my MBA because I just wanted to have, I did a general MBA because I wanted to have a bit of information in in like marketing, accounting, finance, um, HR. Like I wanted a piece of all of it, um, which is also now that I know my Enneagram 7, it really makes sense because I'm like, ooh, I didn't, I didn't want to be like in one thing. I wanted a little piece of all of it. But I did it with the knowing that one day I would have a business. I just knew it. And I thought everybody else in there that was like, I want to go in marketing and work for this company, I want to do finance for this company. I'm like, you're all kidding yourselves. Who wants to work for anybody else? And then yeah, I and I'm really close to a lot of um people I did my MBA with, like some of my best friends I met in that program because I was really young when I did it. I was like 23. Um now I'm like, or even like two years into having my first business, I was like, oh my God, you guys like, yeah, we never understood why you wanted to do this. But I still I'm still choosing it. Like I literally, I don't know, maybe a month ago said to David, I'm like, okay, this is it. Don't let me open another business, like coaching, team development, podcasting, right? Like, like I like this, but please don't let me do this again. It's so hard, and I almost forget it. It's like he's like, I can't stop you. I who knows where you're gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

It is so, it is so hard, and it is so much, so much work. And I I can appreciate now that I don't think I could have ever appreciated before that there's so much that goes on behind the scenes, right? Like as a as a client or a customer or whatever it is, you go to a you go to a place and you you know go to a nice shop last day, and you go and you buy some things, or you go to like, you know, you go to you know work out or whatever it is, and you get this experience, but you don't really appreciate how much has to go on behind the scene in order to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Oh my god, right? I someone once asked me, I was teaching a class and I came out and he was so sweet, like he wasn't being facetious, but he was like, So what else do you do? And uh my jaw, literally, I was like, what else do and I was like, you know what? That's a compliment. This place looks so well run, yeah, that you were like, Hey Nadine, what do you do on your um with most of your day? And in my head, I'm like, I can't get away from this machine, like eating me a lot. What else do you do?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah, it's so true. That is a compliment. Yeah, well done.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Yeah, oh thank you. Um, okay, so when you're in school, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

So uh no, go ahead, keep going, actually.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

No, you go tell me.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

So there was something just because because I think it it segues into what we were just talking about, or from what we were just talking about. You're asking about you know the balance and everything like that. So I actually um uh and maybe just I I hinted at this just before we started the podcast, but I'm actually going to step down as the owner of Restore Health and Wellness. There are three of my associates are coming together and they're forming a partnership, and they're gonna take over the ownership of it so that I can step down and then focus on these other areas of my life, like patient care, like uh my own personal development, which I think comes into patient care a lot, as well as exploring different techniques and and and things like that. So I am actually stepping down, and that thank you. Yeah, me too. I'm excited to to start this this part of my my journey and be able to dedicate a little bit more of my energy and focus to that and uh and a little bit less on the business itself. So I'll still be there, by the way. Like, I'm not going anywhere. I'll be still.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Oh, I'll chase you down. I'll I'll train at Toronto. Like, I'm gonna find you. I'll be in, I'll be like, where is he in in Taiwan? I'm gonna find him. I want to have a moment for this because it is really hard to step away from something that you worked really hard to build. And um, your business is not you, but it is certainly an extension of you. So for you to be able to number one, feel that need to not do that, like to change kind of like or or course correct where you've been going. It's so how did you know? Tell me more. I think this is so great for people listening that are like maybe afraid in entrepreneur or not, it's really hard to kind of change your path in a way, even though you're still staying in as you're you're still a chiropractor and you're actually getting to dig more into what you want to do, it's really difficult to make that that decision.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, it was. And I think it was a it was a long time coming. Like it's this is this is something that's been on my mind for for like a many years actually. But yeah, totally. Yeah, it is very hard to be an entrepreneur. And I and I did realize that some point relatively not that early on, but relatively early on, right? That my my this is not where my heart is, is the is the the business aspect, the entrepreneurship. And um, but I you know I kept working at it and and kept trying, and I, you know, had a vision and I wanted to try to see that through and and all these things, but it did just get to a certain point where I just had to make this decision that this is this is not where my heart is, and this is not what I want to spend my my energy on. And so um, you know, it was really within the past year or two that I had decided that I wasn't going to uh go on and renew the the obese in our in our current location. And so I did actually, you know, I was looking for another buyer for the clinic. I wanted to try like try to find somebody who is the right bit, and that was very important to me. Like you said, it's not you, but it is an extension of you, right? And I I didn't really want to try to sell the business to like you know a big chain who was gonna turn it into you know a mill or you know, something like that. But I so it was important to me to have it go to somebody who was going to kind of carry it on in that way. And I did, you know, approach the associates or one or two associates at different times to kind of get uh get a get feelers out there to see if anybody was interested. And um, and truthfully, I was I was more prepared to even just close the doors and walk away from it and just leave it as it is than to have it become something unrecognizable or something that wasn't in line with um with with the efforts that were put in over the years. And so I'm so thankful that the use three had come together. And I think that overall the the the the feeling of the place, the philosophy, you know, the individualized uh patient care, the time we take with people, right? We're all we're not a high-volume clinic, we really try to take our time with people, and all of that I think is gonna be preserved. And I'm so happy that that is going to continue in that way.

unknown 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

You're a special human. I I can so relate to wanting to either have the business continue on without you, but still holding the same like ethos and values of how it was built because it's still gonna treat the same clients and um it's it's it's not your legacy, but it's like a little part of you, right? That's gonna hopefully live on in the world. Um when it came for me to decide to sell uh my last studio, which was movement, uh at the time it was called movement, now it's called collective movement. Um, I did reach out to a few people as well, and I'm like, I think I I'll just close it because I didn't want it to become something that um that I wouldn't have been proud to look at when it's still open, you know? Like that was the one that I was like, this this one really feels like me. This one feels like it came from my like molecular like build. Um and then it's the same as you. I I found, well, Mandy, who owns it now, was uh she was the last teacher I hired, actually. And there was just something different about her. And I just randomly called her one day and I'm like, do you want a business? Um because I was like, I'm drowning, like I need to step away. I'm very burnt out. I need to take some time off and um and heal. And um anyway, I I was like on the flip side, and and I said to her, like, this isn't um uh what's the word I'm looking for? It's not um, I don't, I don't mean it as a threat, but I was like, I I will close it because um I I don't want it to become something that I'm it's like hard to look at. Anyway, so I get what you're saying, and also to come to the decision to take care of yourself before your business, I think people don't understand that's a really hard place to get because I think entrepreneurs, um especially if we've opened something that we're so deeply uh ingrained with, or like it's it's it's an extension of us, it's really hard to decide to take care of yourself first. Because I feel like it gets the best of you for a very long time. And then all of a sudden you're like, I remember saying to the team when I bought it, um, and I was running it by myself, I was like, I'm gonna write this ship because it had been through a very chaotic storm. And I was like, I'm gonna write the ship. And then like three months later, I was I had this vision that there's this ship and it's it's getting it's righted and it's still floating. But I've I felt like I was behind it holding on to one of those like don't what do you call them, the life preservers? And I was like, Yeah, I was like getting all the waves, like the back waves from this ship. And I was like, Oh, I'm drowning. I why am I saving this thing? I'm drowning. And that's when I was like, okay, I I remember I called my mom and I was like, I gotta close this thing. Like I and she knew how much I loved it, and she was like, Yeah, it was sweet. Anyway, so yeah, all that to say. I get it. Um when's the transition happening?

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Sorry, um, it it should be happening July. Yeah, like which we're talking like weeks, weeks away.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Congrats.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and it's interesting. So I want just one to I just want to add something because I that whole sense of priorities, that's what really changed for me, right? At the very beginning, it was a lot of that, you know, the priority is the the business, everything was the business, the business, the business, at the expense of you know, my own personal health, right? Not sleeping, not eating properly, like skipping workouts, drinking too much alcohol, like whatever, just to to cope with with what's going on. And then over time, right, as my priorities started to shift, I used to start taking care of my kids. Okay, well, they're very important, right? Family life, having that work life balance, starting to take care of myself better and seeing how important that is, just not only for myself, but also you know, to be able to, I think, bring that into practice as well. All of those priorities. Started to shift, and all of a sudden the business started to kind of drop down the list, right? And I that wasn't really fair to you know myself, a business owner, or to the other people who were working there. And I think that was all a part of it as well, is this shift in priorities and knowing that I my heart just wasn't really into that aspect anymore. And so that was that was all part of it. So yeah, I get that the priorities and being able to take care of oneself and entrepreneurship. We oftentimes I think so much sacrifice so much of our own personal health and well-being at the expense of the business. And I, you know, it's gonna be different for everybody, but to find that balance, I think is so, so, so important. Yeah, you know, they say they say you can't pour from an empty cup, right? And it's so true. You can't pour from an empty cup.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

It's so true, and that's why I am such a like um god, perimenopause is killing my brain, but like um a diehard supporter of small business. Like I was just uh my in-laws have a cottage. Um basically they all grew up on this lake outside of Perth. And so we were there last weekend and I went into Perth. David's like, I know you want to go do a little like putter and shop go. And so I went in and there's a there's a Perth, it's called Perth General store. It opened last year, and I'm in love with it because my heaven is a little like curated food store. I love it. And so I got back to the cottage and David's like, what'd you get? And I was like, oh my god, they have these Atlantic lobster chips that come out around this time. I was like, I got a bag, and he's like, How many? I was like, Okay, two. And he was like, jam. I was like, just one jar, raspberry. He's like, okay, he's like, what else? I was like, beef jerky. And he was like, How many bags? I was like, okay, two of one kind. And so my father-in-law's laughing, and he and David's like, keep going. What else is in that bag? And then my father-in-law's like, they love to see you coming. And I'm like, you know what? I will, I'm gladly spend all of my grocery dollars at a small, a small Perth general store food shop because that is who's like, I know how hard that person is working behind the scenes, and that's where I want my money spent every time. And he was like, he worked in banking, but he worked with small business banking. And he was like, I get it. He was like, I there's no one I admire more than a small business owner because I know how flipping hard everyone is working behind the scenes. And I'm like, yeah, I don't understand how you can just hit buy online. Look, I I've definitely ordered something from Amazon before, but like if you can go down the street and get it, like get in your car and go down the street and get it, you know, like just support these people that are working so hard. And I also think people think small business owners are like making a lot of money. I mean, I've had so many conversations with people, and like I wish they saw where I lived. I was like, bless. Yeah, like we're working so hard.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Okay, I want to go back to chiropractic school, chiropractic school. I think I just called it chiropractic, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Chiropractic, chiropractic school. It sounds like an adjective, it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah, chiropractic school. Did you love it? Like, was it when you got there? Were you like, uh-huh, this is it?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Wow, yeah. So very mixed feelings because it's a very intense program. Uh they throw they throw a ton of information at you, but um, but yeah, it was really, really interesting, right? We we studied so many incredible things. Um, anatomy was probably my favorite, uh, my favorite subject. And at the school in Toronto, there is a um there's a cadaver lab there. So we had the opportunity to do uh human dissection, which was unbelievable, unbelievable. Like what an incredible gift that people give for us to be able to learn. Like it is such a such an incredible uh opportunity. I wish, and I spent a lot of time in that anatomy lab. I wish I could go back now, knowing what I know now, so that I could really get into you know, hindsight being 2020 and being able to do that. Um yeah, so it was it was a very, very intense program, but um, but yeah, it was incredible. It was just an incredible program. Anatomy into theology, we did technique classes and um rehabilitation classes, diagnosis, and it's it's an intensive program. And the the fourth year is all spent in clinic. We have the clinics that are run at the school, and then through a couple of different community clinics at community health centers in in downtown Toronto, and uh, and that was just an amazing experience as well. So I was in two uh community health centers. I did two six-month rotations. I was fortunate enough to be off off campus, and that was a very good learning experience. Um, one was at um the South Riverdale clinic at uh Queen uh where was that? Queen Queen in Carlaw or uh downtown in Toronto in the wet in the West End. And uh the other one was at um uh First Nations Health Center called An Shinabe, which was at uh Queen in Sherborne, which was uh just an unreal experience. Uh but both of those were fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

So be nervous like to start practicing.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yes. Um like in that fourth year for sure, but you have a clinician who's watching over you, right? So you come out of that room and you you tell the clinician what's going on and what you found and what you think is happening and what you propose to do, and they listen to you and then they okay that, right? Or they start asking you a bunch of questions because they want you to go down a different route because they know you're not you're not right. And um, but it's so helpful to have that clinician there. It was much more nerve-wracking to see that first patient without having the clinician, where all of a sudden you you know you do that intake, and then you kind of realize, oh, I'm I'm the clinician. I'm the one.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

There's no one to ask.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

There's nobody to ask, it's me. So uh that definitely takes a little getting used to, but uh, I think it's like that with uh with with uh any you know professional program, any anytime you're in that. So uh you get used to it pretty quickly. I mean, think or swim, right? You've got to do it.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

So you gotta do it. Do you have like a like what's the community like? Is there like a hub of mentorship? Is it is it a village mentality, or is it is it more like boarding information? What's it like in in this industry?

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Yeah, that's a good that's a good question. For chiropractic, I'm I'm not too sure. I mean, there are a couple of uh chiropractic groups, like Ottawa chiropractic groups on online, like on Facebook, and people will post some things up, and I think there's a generally a good community, and you do tend to see people at um uh at various courses and things and things like that. And so you get to know some people. Um I I don't know how much mentorship there is because of the techniques that I use. I I don't really connect with people in Ottawa, their chiropractors in Ottawa, just because I'm the only one who does PDTR in Ottawa. So I'll often connect with people online if I need to, which is amazing that we have these tools available to us that, you know, if I've got questions, I can go put them out to this brain trust, and you know, in an hour I can have like 10 different comments and different directions to go. And so that is uh just incredible that that that I could do that. And I've got a couple of teachers that I've had over the years that I could go back to and and ask questions to specifically if I if I needed to.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

So have you ever had a patient that is totally stumped to that you're like you reach out to these people and like together, even you're like, I can't figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Totally, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Does that drive you crazy? I mean, uh okay, first compassion for the person that is like looking for help and you can't, but on the side of you that loves to figure it out and and just like research and figure, like see them and see them and see them, and be like, I'm not making any inroads here, I'm not helping you. Like, how does that feel?

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Drives me nuts, absolutely nuts. Yeah, so so frustrating and and just like I just don't know what's going on, right? Usually people uh notice a difference pretty quickly, right? And if it doesn't happen and just try all the things in my uh in my bag of tricks and like none of it connects, and then it's just I don't know what's going on with this person.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Don't know what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 51:46

So I'll often um I'll often refer out, like sometimes it's just it's just not my thing, it's just not my my my techniques that are gonna make the difference. And so I'll often refer them out to uh like an osteopath, right? I find the osteopaths to be really good at looking holistically and kind of looking at things a little bit more out of the box and just trying something different. Sometimes it is just a different type of technique, right? A different touch, a different uh exploration. Um I'll refer them to uh you know, potentially a different chiropractor or for massage or just make other suggestions, right? Yeah. And then I'll always keep in mind that person as well. Right. So I'll like I'm always doing courses, I'm always doing, I'm always interacting with people, and um, and sometimes you know you'll just hear something or you'll learn something, and it'll totally be like that's that person. And then I'll usually write them back and say, Hey, I learned something, and I just want to see if this uh makes a difference for you, and I'll have them come in and we'll just try it.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Right? Because I'm guessing that these people are not easily forgotten, like you're like uh nope, yeah. Right, yeah, so you're constantly doing courses, searching out new ways to help. Yeah, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Yeah, are you in one? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

I was gonna say sometimes things, you know, they they they land and I use that in practice, and sometimes it's just well, that was interesting, but it doesn't, you know, resonate with me, or I don't I'm not gonna incorporate that. But uh but I I love learning. And so I think it's so important to keep keep doing that, right? And and even if it's not something that you're going to use on Monday morning, still I think it's just good to come into contact with different people, different techniques and and different perspectives, right? And and just see what other people are are doing.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I also feel like people like having the conversation. If they're familiar with another technique, like for coaching, I use the Enneagram, but some people have used other deaf different like personality mapping systems and they want to ask me about it. And I'm like, that's not my expertise, but it is helpful to know because I can see them wanting to understand this in comparison in a way. So I'm sure it's the same for you. People want to understand what you're doing and how it's having an effect. Um, what are you most excited about when you look ahead? Like you're you're gonna step away from running this business, you're gonna, yeah, tell me what is it?

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Yeah, that's a big question. So yeah, that's a very, very big question. So I've um back in February, I did a uh I did a course which is really beautiful. It's something called Zen Tai Shia Tzu. And it's uh it was developed by this guy named Gwyn Williams, he's uh in Australia, and what he did was he's uh combined Thai massage with shiatsu, osteopathic manipulations, and principles of China of traditional Chinese medicine. And um it was an amazing course, it was so beautiful, and just to get back into some of that Thai massage, right? Like that's that type of movement, but everything that I do, right? You talk about the you notice the wheels spinning in my head when I'm when I'm practicing, it's very, very cerebral, right? It's trying to figure something out, right? And and a lot of logic and if-then reasoning and all these sorts of things that are going on. And the Zen Thai was just so it was so heart-centered, right? It was very about much so much about present and connection and um and that relationship between the the giver and the the seeer. And it was just so nice to spend that time in that space. And so I've been working on that and trying to incorporate some of those uh movements or gestures in my practice now, but I would like to explore that more, right? And I'd like to kind of bring some of that connection into practice because I think it is just so I I think it's therapeutic, and I think it is just such a wonderful place to come from. So I would like to explore more of that type of treatment and movement. I um I'd like to do the you know, getting kind of into the energy stuff. There's some there's uh some uh qi gong training online that has to be done online and some in person, which I would like to do some more of. My plate's kind of full now. I started down that road, but I didn't get very far. I got you know four or five months in and I realized this is something that's gonna have to sit for a later time, but really to go deeper into energy work and and to really kind of uh feel that and uh in a different way, right? And to be able to um interact with that in a in a in a deeper, uh more confident way. So I foresee that as uh as a different direction to go.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

What do you love about that? What pull what pulls you into that? Because you you you just all of a sudden, wait, let me just tell you how it looks when you just start to talk about it. It's like your whole body is like relaxes into it. You're just like, it just feels like right or something, like it feels like you've landed. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Yeah, that's kind of how it feels to me. So I don't know what this all looks like for the future, and you know whether I'll be incorporating this into my like my PDTR chiropractic practice, or whether it'll be more of a standalone, or whether there'll be kind of more of a melding of these things together. I really don't know how this how this looks in the future, but that's how kind of how it feels to me is that this is the direction that I would like to I'd like to go in as far as practice is concerned.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

And it'll reveal itself, right? Like you're making steps to go towards where you will end up and and where you really want to go. It's like your soul is like being like pulled there.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Um what is it about it that makes you just be like, uh, this it's that um, yeah, it's that uh that that connection, that presence, that um there's something, you know, I try to bring that to just I try to bring that to my practice, right? Like try to be present for people and try to connect with people as well, but it's in a diff, it's in a different way, right? And it is very kind of mind-centered, kind of up in the head. And to kind of drop down into that heart center, really connect with somebody on that, on that deeper level, on that felt level, I think is uh is really beautiful. And there's something that happens, this beautiful glow of movement, this beautiful connection that happens. It's almost almost like a dance. And um, yeah, so that's that's what draws me into that. I think that there's something that's um almost transcendental in a way, right? You kind of drop into this other head space, this energetic space that I think is just so so beautiful. That I think that many people could want to connect with and I think could do very well to connect with as well. I think that's something that a lot of us don't connect with a lot in our society, right? We are very head-centered and we and we work hard and we we're you know we're in the grind and we're trying to do these things, and and um, and maybe not taking as much time to you know stop and swell the roses and to enjoy those things like art and nature that uh that I think that's that taps into all of that as well. So if I can somehow go in that in that direction and be able to allow people to connect with that in some way and to frighten that into their lives in some way, I think it's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

It's so beautiful. You're such a gift. So where can we find you moving forward, like after everything is sold?

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, so I'll still be at Restore Health and Wellness. You can find me there, Bayswater in Somerset in Hindenburg. Um, yeah, we're easily findable online. We're right and we're and in person, we're right on the corner there, that uh one-story red brick building. Uh, so you can find me there. I'm not going anywhere for the foreseeable teacher.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Gosh. Okay, what are you looking forward to the most this summer? Beyond the sale. You're like, I just talked to you about that for an hour.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Um, there's there's a little holiday time that I'm looking forward to. I'm looking forward to spending some time with my kid and my family, my wife. Uh, but there's some time where my kids are actually going to be at overnight camp together. So I'm looking forward to a little time without the kid and just my wife, and just have some some time to ourselves. Um, yeah, that's the big stuff I'm looking forward to this summer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Which kind of really does align with the fact of like just kind of slow down and be present. It's not this big thing that you're looking forward to. It's uh it's like the the simple, the ordinary, the things that we can take for granted, which is just like time with the people that we like hold the closest and love the most. And oh gosh, that's so lovely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Oh god, I'm so glad I found you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Made my world better.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Yeah, you know, you too, Nadine. I gotta say, like you are an exceptional person, and uh I I always have mixed feelings when I see you pop up on the schedule. I'm happy to see you, but I know you're there for a reason, so uh, I'm not happy about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

You're like, oh, poor thing, but yes, what what trauma is coming through her body in what way now? I'm always like, oh, this hurts, but I'm like, oh I need to scope see Sarah. Yeah, thanks for doing what you do and helping me live a way better life. And um, I've sent so many people your way, and I don't know how you want me to explain it, but generally I literally say, you just gotta go. He's a chiropractor. And I don't mean to say, but because it's like I don't want to do any disservice to chiropractor, like the the industry, like at the service, the the care. But I'm like, but he's a magician. I don't know what I mean. I know you've told me what it's called. I forgot, I'll forget a million times again. I'll go relisten to this to remember, but it because I it doesn't matter because I just know that whatever you do, you're so good at it. So I tend to just call you a magician.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Oh, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

I mean Dr. Jared Gerson, magician.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Um, after the DC. Yeah, I like it.

unknown 1:01:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

But anyway, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, your brain, your like big, generous, kind heart and compassion. I just think you're yeah, you're in service to humanity. It it comes right across. And um, I'm gonna make you come back actually because I want to hear more about the training you're gonna do when you when you finish it, but also about your time spent in Asia and how that shaped you because you know what? I just okay, let me go on a tangent for a hot second. My nephew is graduating from high school next week, and so my family were going out and meeting in Calgary for uh his graduation. And I just recorded a podcast with my mom and sister because I I do one a month with them. And my the topic I wanted to talk about was what would you say to somebody graduating from high school? Like what would we say to Connor, my nephew, um, but like all the graduating class. Anyway, so we had this really sweet talk. And one of the things that we all said is you don't have to have it figured out. You know, you don't have to graduate from high school and and go the same path as your peers. And like someone might be ahead of you in university because maybe you want to take some time off, or maybe you're in a a college or in this uh university, or maybe you're in the trades, or but like to start somewhere and maybe that's a gap year that is gonna turn into a nine-year journey. But like trust that school is always gonna be there. And I think probably parents are like, don't say that, but you're such a great example of that. And me, like I quit university in second year, I went back pretty quickly. Like, I didn't, it took me like five months to be like, I've made a mistake. But like, um, I just think we're we're afraid to not follow this quick route. It's like, what's the quickest way to adulthood or success or whatever? But there's so much that we'll be shaped by that's not within the walls of a school. And I love learning. I think university or college is incredible or the trades, like learn something, dig deeper. There's so much to learn, but also there's so much to learn outside of like the traditional idea of school, right? Totally.

unknown 1:03:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

So I want to dig into that nine years you spent in Asia. Um, wow, that's cool. I did not know that about you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Yeah. Um, have a beautiful day. Thank you so much. It's inappropriate because you're my chiropractor, but I just love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for having me on. It seems great.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Thank you. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Thanks, thank you. Bye.