How To Deal With an Unrepentant, Recalcitrant Spouse - Discipleship for Dads

Proud, hypocritical spouses are sadly not unusual in Christian homes. Unsubmissive wives who refuse to attend church — or unloving husbands who refuse to lead the family. They claim Christ, but won’t follow Him. So is there anything you can you do? Can you “fix” your spouse? Is church discipline appropriate? Is it different dealing with a bad husband vs a bad wife? The panel lays out practical strategies and biblical principles.

Download the episode MP3 here:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2520780/episodes/18839893-how-to-deal-with-an-unrepentant-recalcitrant-spouse-discipleship-for-dads.mp3

New kids and family podcast from Generations - TeachMeTheFaith.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

And welcome friends to the Generations Broadcast. Today, another episode of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strausser, Bill Roach, Danny Craig, and yours truly, Kevin Swanson. And today we're gonna hit a toughie. This is a toughie, gentlemen. Everybody walked in, they're like, ooh, ooh, we gotta do this one today. That's a hard one. The unrepentant wife, unrepentant husband, worst case scenario. The unrepentant, hypocritical Christian home. Now, unequal yoking is tough where one spouse is a believer, the other's an unbeliever. That's that's tough. No question, that's tough. That's a 1 Peter 3 tough. But this is even tougher in the Christian marriage, quote unquote, in which one or both spouses are proud, unrepentant, and hypocritical. That's tough. That's real tough. It could be the wife, it could be the husband, or it could be both, which is even tougher. So, and when in council they blame each other, take zero responsibility for their own sins, or the husband is humble, the wife is not, or the wife is humble, and the husband is not. So these are the scenarios. And gentlemen, I'm here to say that this is not unusual in the current situation we're facing in America today, especially quote unquote the Christian nation, you're going to get a fair percentage of this kind of thing. Um but let me start with hope. And uh offline, you prayed for hope, Danny. I thank thankful you did that, because that's where counseling begins and that's where it ends. It always ends in hope. And so now if if if it's come to the point of crisis, and thank God, marriage is the place in which we come face to face with the realities of who we are. If you come face to face with the hypocrisies and sins in your spouse's life, which is not uh obviously the goal here, but face to face with the hypocrisies and sins in your own life, then there's hope that somebody in the marriage is gonna run to Jesus. Somebody is gonna reach out, even though there's been a professed faith, but no, no, we want to run to the real Jesus. Now we've come to the point at which we realize we really need Jesus. I I really need Jesus. Now, the first question I want to answer is this who's gonna fix my wife? Who's gonna fix the recalcitrant wife and who's gonna fix the angry or controlling husband or the apathetic husband? Who's gonna who's gonna fix that? And the answer is obvious Todd. Now that's pretty important. It is because if the the spouse is saying, I have got to fix we got a problem from the outset.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

You know, you've got you've got two things going here. The first of all, the reality is that we are all at some points proud, uh hypocritical, and unrepentant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Right? Yeah, that's that's step one.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

And that's the danger of this, is that we if we don't take care of that when it's small, then we have this big problem. So the that's the the real danger here is that we all have to realize that we're all in this boat at different points in our life. We but we have to tackle it early on.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

That's right. And James warns us to take heed to that, to recognize, you know, or we can fall into, even as we desire repentance for the other person, we can fall into some kind of self-righteousness. Right. We really have to be on guard for it. It does start with us.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

As you're watching your spouse be one of these things, you have to remember that you know, uh there are times I'm like this, and there are times that if if I don't take care of it, I can be in this difficult place too. You start there with you.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Also, I think it's important to maintain this God word perspective always. The sins of my children, the sins of my spouse, are not primarily sins against me. If I'm the big God of the home, okay, if if I become the self-god, then I'm the big offended one. Right? I mean, I'm the I'm the offended one. And so so this tremendous love for self and this lifting up of self as the self-god becomes the big offended one in the marriage. And so that's that's number one. I I think always approaching the with the the other with the right motive, and that is number one, a concern for God and a love for God, and a realization that sins are against God. So let's say we'll take the the husband at this point. You know, he's being offended, she's not submitting, she's recalcitrant, she's you know, everything the proverb says you should not be. And and so he he's he's personally offended by this. That's a problem. I think first he needs to be concerned for God, and then secondly, for his wife. So love for a wife and love for God should transcend this love for self, in that you know, from the outset, he's saying, you know, I'm concerned that there is a violation of God's holy law that goes on in my life, in my home, et cetera, et cetera. God is offended here. I'm concerned for that, for for sheer love for God. And I'm concerned for the spiritual well-being of my wife and my children. So this love for wife, this love for God transcends love for self. If that be the case, we're starting out in a good position.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

The other thing, Kevin, that comes to mind is uh when we become the God you mentioned, we tend to victimize ourselves and put ourselves in the place of the victim. And uh this is where it's really important to remember God's sovereignty. I think one of the really important verses on this when we're going through difficult trials that we don't understand is uh in in Psalm 39, verse 9, it says, I was mute, I did not open my mouth because it was you who did it. And to remember that God is sovereign even in the dysfunction of my marriage. Yes, he's doing his work, and I've got to submit myself to him. And ultimately, he he was the ultimate victim. I'm I'm not the ultimate victim.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

And it is the will of God that I'm in this marriage. Yes. Uh I did not marry the wrong person, which is sometimes people's response. No, no. I I am the kind of person that has received this from God, and he has it this in my life for a reason, and that's what you're saying right now. So so men cannot force women to submit by banging them over the head with physical or verbal haranguing, and women cannot force men to love them by manipulation control. Uh the gospel is the answer. And I think we have to say that from the outset. Um, that the only possibility for something to change here is the gospel and for the Holy Spirit to do a powerful working in the hearts of myself and my wife.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

And and and Jesus can break through the hardest of hearts, the most recalcitrant, the the most angry, uh, those that are chronically uh angry or apathetic. And you know, I mean, I think there are spouses out there going, I am up against a wall. And perhaps they've attempted this. They've tried to change their spouse. They've tried to change themselves. I think they have to realize this is impossible but for God to intervene. So so that's what I would say from the outset. Is this the work of the mighty spirit of God to do to do this work? And something you said was that you have to wait, and you have to be willing to wait. Was that you? Was that you, Bill?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I'm sure somebody said it. Yeah. Wait, waiting is is critically important. It waiting says, God, I'm I'm trusting in your timing. Right? That I'm not, yeah, it may be uncomfortable, it may be difficult to live with this person, but I'm gonna trust that you've got the path to good. Uh and and in in faith, I'm gonna wait uh upon you to to do things that you want to do in the time that you want to change.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

That's right, because uh I actually the the first house I rented when we were married, I rented from a man and he was in his 60s, Lutheran guy, great godly man. And he told me this story about for 30 years, he had been married about 40 years at that point, for 30 years he dwelt with his wife that was that was like this, was unrepentant. And I said, How did you not give up? And he said, The conviction he had was that it wasn't about him giving up or hanging in there, it was about trusting God, about him trusting God. God didn't give up on him, so how could he give up on that calling, that sovereign calling he had put him in in that marriage? And he said there's this amazing thing. Thirty years into their marriage, she completely she basically received Christ and changed. And uh Wow, what an amazing testimony.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

So look, is there a difference between the husband and the wife in such a situation? Again, we're looking at a situation in which the husband is a believer, or acting the believer, the wife is not, or the wife is the believer and the husband is not, or acting as if he is not a believer. What's the difference uh between how they respond to the other? Bill?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I think well you go back to the basics, right? You remember what God's calling men to love and he's calling women to submit. So you really get down to the basics if you just say, okay, I'm just gonna love my wife. She's un unrepentant now, but I'm called to love her whether she's repenting or not. So I'm gonna really work on loving. And the wife is just gonna say, you know, this is a difficult thing, but first Peter 3 makes it pretty clear that my submission will be part of what God uses to bring my husband back. Yes. Or bring him to the Lord. So get back to the real basics and don't try to make it a difficult thing. Make it very simple. Women submit, men love. Now, of course, there's other things that that you know that that come into play, but if you get to the basics and make sure you're doing the basics well.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

She completely refuses to submit. She refuses to attend church, she refuses to participate in family worship, she doesn't raise the children, the nurture of the Lord, she she refuses to homeschool Christian education off the table for her.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

What does that husband do? Now, I I I would say, and again, the same thing can happen on the side of the wife. You know, he refuses to lead the family well, he doesn't take the lead, he doesn't help with household tasks, never disciplines, gets angry, et cetera, et cetera. So um now I believe that if they are in the church, then and they're both professing believers, then Matthew 18 does apply. I think you can go directly to Matthew 18 and say, well, we must go directly to the brother or the sister, and we have an obligation to put this in front of them. Now, we pull the log out of our own eye, we we go through the peacemaker by Ken Sandy, we realize we got to pull that log out of our own eye, we'll walk through some of that process. But uh but at some point there has to be a some kind of confrontation going on. We have to say, well, we're not just, you know, faking like we're Christians here. Um these are the sorts of things that God has put before us. And and uh and if if she doesn't listen, or if he doesn't listen, then we bring two or three others uh with us, perhaps we bring it to the eldership. And I think it's important to bring it to the eldership. We have that happening all the time in our church. And um and there have been instances in which, you know, m myself and my wife have agreed that we will go and speak to the elders about these sorts of things and be in accountability with the elders. So I think that's appropriate. Um but now if she doesn't listen, or if he doesn't listen, at some point you do take it to the church. And at some point there may be church discipline involved. And uh and I think those sorts of situations do arise. If the wife refuses to attend church, et cetera, et cetera, or the husband refuses to attend church and yet still claims to be a believer, the church is going to have to take action in a situation like that.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Correct. Yeah. And you talked about humility at the beginning, and that's very, very important, is being humble, recognizing God's sovereignty over your marriage, and then God is the one that will change the other person, not you, right? So you're not gonna push that. But there is a standing for the truth, like you're saying. You you can't be the humble that's a pushover. No, you're you're gonna manage your household in truth and in God's in God's ways, God's precepts. Uh, and you can't forsake that. But but there is that humility of dwelling with and continuing to minister to, minister the gospel in a way that would be welcomed and received.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. Bill, your thoughts on on how to sort of drag along. And I I do believe there has to be something of a you know, surviving and dragging along, because as Christians, okay, so the wife isn't submitting, or the husband is not loving, and the husband is displaying himself in angry ways, and we're we're assuming he's not being physically abusive here, or she's not being physically abusive, uh, or threatening to uh to kill people in the house and this sorts of things. Um but but you're still going to have to live together.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, I think you pray for timing. That's that's one of the prayers, Lord, you know, give me the right time to do this. I know that you want me to bring the gospel, I know you want me to bring the truth, but help me to know the right time. Maybe bring something into my husband's life that makes him more open to it, or bring something into my wife's life, and make me attentive to those opportunities that may not come along very often. So help me to be in the place to be able to see when the opportunity is there, pray for the timing, and then just to expect in hope that God is going to give you one of those opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah. Amen. Yeah, that's important as well. I mean, we're called as men, there's there's a leader. I think there's a leadership aspect here for husbands, as we talk about this scenario. There's there's how are we leading? Are we leading, leading with love, right? Leading in love, leading in humility. Um, but it you're you're exactly right. There's timing, and I think there's also a lot of discernment to know that uh to know your wife, to know what she receives, what she doesn't, how to communicate. Um and and you know, I think men in those situations are obviously called to a very high bar of of loving. I mean, I we could all say we don't love our wives perfectly, um, but in those seasons, there that's gonna be an important investment, very important commitment in that man's life.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Aaron Powell What about the tough scenario in which the wife is is not submitting to her husband and she's refusing to do so or pushing back against his leadership based on spiritual grounds? Um that he's he's misguided in his direction. He's taking our family the wrong direction, he's misguided in how he disciplines our children. Um how do you handle situations like that?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Well, I think you take it to the elders of the church and look for godly counsel in the church. Um oftentimes the the argument is that uh there's some gray area, and uh it's her opinion that this is not good, his opinion that it is good. My conclusion is that she should submit in the gray area as well. Um you know, he may say we're gonna have pizza every Friday night, and she may claim that you know pizza is not healthy for the family, la-da-da-da-da. Um and doesn't quite have enough double-blind studies over a period of 80 years to prove her point scientifically, et cetera, et cetera. Um she just needs to back down and she needs to submit in situations like that. That's that would be the counsel, I think, of a godly church. So now now, but then at the same time, in the counseling, uh, we're gonna pursue whether there is a healthy communication going on between husband and wife. Is he listening to her? Is is he um willing to take her opinion into account and pray through the sorts of things that she's bringing out, et cetera, et cetera, or is he shutting her down uh within 10 seconds, and then they they accelerate into these hateful and angry conversations, that's an indication there's something wrong with his heart as well as hers. So there's more to it. There's always more to it. You know, there's the material issues they're arguing over, and then we have to get into the more the deeper heart issues that are underlying the surface there.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

And what what can happen? That's good. I think going to the church is the key, but what can happen a lot of times in those scenarios is either the husband or wife, one of them won't trust the elders. I don't want to go to the elders. I don't I don't know if I trust those guys. They're just gonna take your side, right? We can have that. So what I'd recommend there is maybe get one of the elders and his wife, maybe just those two meet. Or you know, get get it, try it, try a different, a different setup like that. Because a lot of times um there can be a lack of trust, and then there won't be that oh yeah, let's run let's run to the elders and see. No, let's let maybe there's a godly couple like the elder and his wife that could be a first step.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

And first Corinthians six recommends that you go to the least of yes, so maybe there's maybe there's uh a child with Down syndrome in the church. You might sit before that little boy and ask for his counsel. Um so I recommend that you have the humility to be willing to submit to the little boy with Down syndrome and ask him what what he thinks. And as you know, the boy's gonna say. Yeah, he would say he's just love. He's just love. Love. And that is the answer. So you take that away and you pray over that, and I think that should be sufficient. Um so yeah, the least of the brothers or sisters in the church could be helpful in those disagreements as well. So keep that in mind. Um but but I think you know, in terms of confronting your wife, and I, you know, confronting your family's sins. I want to spend just a moment on this. I think it's first important, and Bill, I want you to lean in on this as well. So you're you've come to the conclusion that your wife has this issue, okay? And and it's just there, and you have a sense you've got to confront this, et cetera, et cetera. The thing that I think you have to consider first is the log in your own eyes. So you you really have to uh confess, consider, confess before God, before her, these sorts of things. Secondly, um, prayer. How's your prayer life? Are you praying for your wife? Uh do you have what is your relationship with God at this point? Uh those those are really key issues. And um, I have some questions here. Are you in prayer and the word for 30 minutes daily? And have you been over the last month or two? Have you prayed for your wife daily for the last month, every day for 30 days? Have you prayed with your wife daily for the last month? Have you prayed, have you prayed with your children over the last month? Have you attended the public prayer meetings of the church? Um, so you know, this the prayer life of the man is is is key. And so much of that prayer life has to do with, you know, dealing with me. Just uh, you know, that that especially that private prayer life is is God, you know, you're teaching me what is it you have to teach me? And so I I guess to be that godly leader, are you in this position of living the godly life yourself? I think that's that's that comes to my mind. But you had something else off air that I wanted you to to share concerning this. What what should that man consider before he confronts his wife?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Well, um First of all, I think again, you're you're you're looking at your own sin. You're looking at the two things that that you have done that may even created some of the problem in your wife not submitting. I mean, you have to see the correlation of your own sin to that may be the you know the problem in your wife sinning. First of all, you have to look at that and look at it seriously. You know, have I done something to create this unsubmissive spirit in my wife's heart? That's the first thing you have to do. And if you come away honestly and say no, then then still you have some other sins that you're still uh repenting on. But again, I think timing is is so important, waiting on the Lord for for when he is going to do it. You mentioned that we can't change our spouse. I remember when I was uh introducing, when God was teaching me the uh the doctrines of grace, and um it was a place that my wife and I weren't in. And I remember starting teaching it kind of slowly uh in family worship and with the children, and she started to sense that things were different, and she and she didn't take too kindly to it. She thought we're doing something wrong. Um, and I I remember at one point it became a little bit of a difficult time. I just said, you know what, we're not gonna, there's plenty of things in the Bible we can teach about. We're gonna teach about something else in family worship. I said, but why don't you seek the Lord and ask him to show you if these things are true? I just had to let it go in the sense that I'm not gonna change her. God is gonna do the changing. And I'm gonna be praying over here and and ask her, you know, she had a heart to seek the word of God. I knew that. And I thought, okay, let's just, you know, let her go into the word and let the spirit of God change her. So timing's timing's important on that, that you have to realize you can't fix everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

And also, I think any time we do this confrontation with anybody, with our children as well as our spouse or anybody, uh, we have to come at it not with this condemning and judgmental spirit. There's this sense in which when somebody comes at you and says, I have a problem with you, and you're the problem. You can get this sort of, you know, there's no hope for me, kind of questions. And we don't want that. That's that's the devil talking. Uh we want a gospel-surrounded, gospel-oriented confrontation, which means, you know what, this is why Jesus came. I have this problem. Jesus has forgiven me. I think using the term we versus you is always always helpful. We struggle in this family with these sorts of things, but thank God Jesus has come to save us. He forgives us, he cleanses us. I have great confidence in this. Um, that's different than just pointing a finger at somebody and leaving with them with thou art the man. Now, you know, thou art the man needs to follow up with God is forgiving, God is merciful, have mercy upon me, O God, according to your multitude of your loving kindnesses, right? We need that. That needs to be tucked into the message itself. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

And what you're highlighting is that when we do that, when we confront and condemn like that, it's very it's it's very pointed. And then we want to go back to life like normal and then hit it again. There's a principle in Ephesians 5 that it just erases all of that. It says, therefore, be imitators of God as dear children and walk in love as Christ has also loved us and given himself for us. So there's a walking, it's a it's a continual and it's love, it's love-bound, and it's a giving up. How am I serving this person? How am I giving up in love, like in a 1 Corinthians 13 sense, that kind of love? So it's not this pointed poke. It's it's a it's a well, let me see how I can serve and come alongside and walk as as Christ has loved me. I'm called to imitate God in the way He's been so patient with me. He doesn't just, you know, hit me like He He He walks with me.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Let's draw the distinction once more between the husband living with the unbelieving wife or the recalcitrant, unrepentant wife, versus the wife living with the unrepentant, uh, you know, apathetic kind of husband. Okay. And now, let's take the scenario in which uh they've come to the point at which the husband doesn't attend church or the wife doesn't attend church, or she attends the local liberal Methodist, liberal, you know, feminazi kind of operation down the street. Um So what's the difference here? That's the question I'm I'm putting on the table for a moment. Uh the husband takes the children to church with him. The wife steps out, grabs the kids, takes them to the decent church. You know, the husband stays at home, reads the newspaper, checks out the internet, whatever. Um Bill, the difference here. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

I think the wife is is needs to ask kind of permission to do some of the outward things like taking the children to church. Um, you know, can having uh an organized family worship time, just you know, saying to the husband, I'm gonna do these things, and you know, unless you tell me not to do them kind of thing, I think you can even be that forward thing, you know, I think these things are good for our children, and unless you tell me not to do it, I'm planning on on doing these kind of things. So but I think the w the wife kind of a little bit asking permission in that submissive role. The husband, I think, just kind of gathers up the children and and does the things that he ought to do and and praying for his wife while he's doing it. I think the husband will have a little bit more freedom in that regard. It's not like the wife's gonna stand at the door and tell him he's not taking her kids out to church or something. So I I think there you you can't coming in again with that submissive spirit, the wife does, because that's what 1 Peter 3 tells us is the way to win the day.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah, 1 Peter 3 is real helpful there because and it helps wives because it is about fear, fearing God and and and committing yourself to God because there I'm sure in women like in that situation they could bristle up like, but I've gotta take him to church, and this guy's stopping. Well, you've got to trust in God. And also remember, 1 Peter 3 comes right after the instruction and example of Christ that we're to fall, right? It says, why like wives likewise be submissive to your own husbands? What does it say about Christ? When he was reviled, he did not revile in return. When he was suffered, he did not threaten, but he committed himself to him who judges righteously. So there's for women, there's this, I fear God, I'm committing myself to God. I'm going to I'm gonna honor my husband as I'm called to do, but I'm not gonna stress out over it, I'm gonna trust God.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Now, granted, there are situations, and I I want to put this forward because I'm telling you, these situations exist in which the husband says, you go to church, if you go to church, I'm divorcing you. Or the wife says, if you take those children to church with you, I divorce you. So it's a sort of the metaphoric gun to the head. You get those situations. Right. In situations like this, there's a point at which the believer is just going to have to go to church. Exactly. Now, with or without the children, in the case of the the wife, as you you said, uh and probably for the husband, he still has a responsibility before God. Ephesians 6 4. He is the one primarily responsible before God. He is commanded by God Himself to raise those children, the nurture and the admonition of the Lord Jesus Christ. So it's a command to him. Therefore, if he was not to take the children to church, he is violating God's law. He's going to have to stand on his principles in a situation like that. So these are tough scenarios.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

You mentioned the the 30-day thing that you said, you know, pray for your wife, get in the word. You know, all the if you really did those things for 30 days, you know, you might you might see something very significant on the other side of 30 days. Or 30 years is the case, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Absolutely. Yeah. And I have a another really good friend um right now, and he's he's walked this path for, I think they've been married about 25 years. His wife's Catholic, he's Protestant, he's not, and that's there's a lot of tension there because they go to different churches, right? But he's uh but then then the children are kind of like, which one do we go to, right? So there's there's some a semblance of unity, but but I mean those kind of things can cause a lot of tension. But I remember he struggled with a long time. Do I just kind of give in and go to the Catholic Church to keep the family unified and right? And but you know, he's convicted. I have to, I have to, I have to, I have to obey God. I have to align with the Lord and the conviction he's given me and walk that and trust him, and trust him in that.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

And trust him over the long haul. This 30-year thing, that's a huge testimony. Huge, yeah. And I know another scenario in Japan, a missionary family in Japan, where the wife was completely off the rails. Um, she was the ultimate, the the I mean, as described by her sons, who I think now are in their eighties or nineties, but uh absolutely off the rails, you know. And and yet that husband continued on in his work and raised his family, and his children have been some of the most remarkable missionaries um in Eastern Asia, including China, that uh that I think we've seen in the last generation. But it was because he was faithful, and that his son say it, he was faithful day in, day out for forty years. He was faithful in just being a loving husband, despite the fact that his h wife was completely off the rails and would never, never, never love him, never submit to him, um, constantly be um a a nag to him, etc. etc. It's just you know, nothing he could do to fix her. Right. And um, but he continued on and that testimony uh played out in the lives of his sons. He walked in love. He did. He did. He focused in on the thing that he was to focus in upon. And that's your point, Bill, is that okay, there's not much you can do about what's happening in the spouse's life, and we can confront, we can use church discipline, et cetera, et cetera. But at the end of the day, you're not fixing it.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

God's too efficient. Uh to he's always working on two people at one time. Never think that this is only about your unrepentant spouse. Because it never is. It's about your unrepentant spouse and and possibly your unrepentance from time to time too. Always working on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

One of the things that's difficult for me in situations like this, maybe where you feel like the other party in a conflict is kind of out to lunch, is they they come at you with accusations that you just kind of know are just like not not reasonable. And so it's easy to go to that and say, well, this is just proof that it's all that. But I think what God wants us to do is to say, and you've said this so many times, Papa, they may have the right the wrong list, but there's probably there probably is another list, and and they may not have their hands on that list, but God is still using this person to call me to uh search myself, to have the search me, oh God, and and know my heart attitude, see if there's any wicked way in me. And God sometimes uses blunt tools in our lives to cause us to go about that kind of self-examination.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I I like to say there's four lists. There's my list, there's your list, there's the devil's list, and then there's God's list. So let's just go with God's list and uh and trust the Holy Spirit to convict us of these things and to seek that out. Search me, O God, and know my ways. See if there be any wicked way in me. That's that's the testimony of any godly believer.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

When you when you have that that disposition, Danny, not only is God going to do wonderful things in your life, but it's it's giving it's putting you in a place that your spouse will then make it easier for them because your heart is humble. It's it's the true Galatians 6, 1 feel that you're looking to yourself. That makes it easy. You have a gentleness to you because you you're you're you will lock the judgment, because you have the humility, like, oh, this is a sinner trying to help a sinner, right? This is a redeemed one that's trying to help other people. Um and and that spirit is going to let the spouse it's just gonna be easier for them to repent. I think.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

And you may have to suffer. You may have to suffer. You you you may have to climb onto the altar and stay on the altar. You might have to deny yourself take up the cross like daily for 30 years. You might even have to do it for 40 years. You may have to take up that cross daily for 40 years. That doesn't sound like American Christianity to me.

unknown 33:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Jesus wants something better for us.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Come on. What a cross? Yeah, I gotta bear this cross for the next 40 years of my life.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

It is ridiculous. Because in many ways, the world is teaching us no, it's it's it's a it's a life of peace, it's a life of affluence, it's a life of of no of no suffer. Um, but we go back to the example our Lord, we are our call in Philippians three is to know him and the fellowship of his sufferings. So I mean in some ways you can approach these situations and go, I'm supposed to suffer. Maybe this is what God has for me right now. Let me enter into this in faith and receive that a little bit because he's gonna conform me to his image. Right. And this apparently is one of those ways.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

And then you get all that 1 Peter 1, where you know we can rejoice in the trial and the tribulation with great hope. Really goes back to hope of the gospel. Yeah, living hope. Yeah. I mean, let's leave this whole conversation with some hope. I mean, because there are people out there just feeling that they're just locked into this horrible, impossible situation. Uh welcome to you know, life on earth, but uh, but there is this hope of glory, there's this hope of salvation, there's this um downpayment of the Holy Spirit who gives us joy in the midst of trial and and peace in the midst of the the wars and and uh and and somehow we're able to love in the midst of hatred. You know, the these are miracles of God, uh where we can walk into the fire and realize there is a fourth man in the fire there and we're gonna be okay. Uh and that applies to a lot of believing spouses that are listening to this program right now, Bill.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah. And you know, we are reading in Romans 8.31 this morning, you know, which follows Romans 8, 28, 29, 30, which you preached on just last weekend. And it the the question in verse 31 is what shall we say about all these things? All these wonderful things that God's gonna do for you. Can you trust him really to do this? And then Paul goes on to say, let me tell you who who you're trusting. You're trusting in the God who gave his son to for you for you. That's the God. He he's going to do all these things. And all whether there's tribulations or distresses or uh pains and sufferings, not only is are you gonna endure those things, but God's gonna use those things to make you more than conquerors in this life. And nothing ever will separate you from that love. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

And the trial itself is a proof of that love. That's right. The the fact that God disciplines us is a proof of our sonship, and that's a hopeful thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

That's a great place to land this thing. Just read Romans 8 over and over and over again. We'll just leave you with that encouragement, friends. And uh we've been talking about very some very, very difficult situations here, but this is gospel stuff. This is the kind of stuff that God salvages, He's come to save us from the most desperate situations. And that, of course, is the desperate situation of our sin. And uh and so he saves each and every one of us, and we we count on uh him bringing us through, and nothing can separate us from the love of God, uh, tribulation, distress, persecutions, nakedness, peril, sword. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in the Lord Jesus Christ. These trials will test the tensile strength of God's love, as you just said. And so count on it. Count on it. God's gonna save you, God's gonna love you through this, and God is gonna protect you and preserve you all the way to the end to glory. Well, friends, that wraps up this edition of Discipleship for Dads on Generations. And you can email us at mail at generations.org if you have questions, comments, some perhaps difficult scenarios that we need to address. And this has been a very edifying opportunity here. I appreciate you brothers joining me, Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig. And now Kevin Swanson here, inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.