How to Make Headway Discipling Your Children - Discipleship for Dads

What can you do if you have children from toddlers to teenagers, and you feel like you’re not making headway with family discipleship? What are the top issues to focus on, and strategies to follow? The panel talks about going beyond family worship…ways to find one-on-one time with lots of kids…big mistakes…the role of the church…and the best things their own parents did.

Download the episode MP3 here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2520780/episodes/18916225-how-to-make-headway-discipling-your-children-discipleship-for-dads.mp3

New kids and family podcast from Generations - TeachMeTheFaith.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome friends to Generations, Kevin Swanson with you, and today another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strauss, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig. And you're truly Kevin Swans, a couple of homeschooling dads in studio and a homeschooling grandfather. That's right. Three homeschool grandfathers.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

And uh one homeschool dad who's going to be a homeschool grandfather someday, God willing. God willing. All right. So now today we're going to talk about something pretty basic, how to disciple your children. And uh this question comes from an email. And by the way, you can email us at mail at generations.org for any kind of inputs, questions, etc. Hello. I was curious on if you could guys could uh do a podcast on practical ways to disciple your children. I have six boys ranging from 13 years to two years old. 13, 10, 8, 6, 4, and 2. Wow. That's a while. I'm going through a discipleship book with my oldest son now. We have Family Bible Time at night. We have just moved to traveling for my work and are going to start trying to go to church this week in the area we are in now. It just seems like we are not making much headway at passing on the faith to our children, which is concerning for me. I would like more ideas or advice and guidance on what this looks like on a practical level. Uh so great question here. And I want to get to the real basics and the practical advice that we can help this guy with. Now, obviously, we can go on for five hours on this, uh, but let's get down to some core issues. Uh, first and foremost, let's remember that it's all in the hands of God. It's 100% God. But God does give us something, and that is to disciple our children, to teach our children God's word as we sit in the house, as we walk by the way, as we rise up, as we lie down. So there are obligations placed upon us in the word. Ephesians 6 4, Deuteronomy 6 7. So we've got these admonitions from God to be faithful in this area. So what is it? What does this look like? How do we do this? Now, as I see it, Deuteronomy 6.7 is both uh something that's prepared as we sit in our house, sort of more of an official time where we're sitting together and doing this, we're bringing the word of God in, but it's also this extemporaneous element where it happens as we walk by the way. So there's the extemporaneous and a more of an official prepared kind of daily exercise that we're doing in family worship. So I see it as both. So just starting with God's word uh this morning, which is our authority for this area of discipling our children, we we want to start with bringing the word of God to our children on a daily basis. And it's got to be integrated throughout the day. So I'll just put that on the table. Uh Todd, what do you think? What's the what's the thing that uh that has been most helpful for you? Let's let's start practically here.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

I I mean I do think Deuteronomy 6 is is a helpful guide. As I think about our question here, I mean this this gentleman has six children. Right? Six six boys. That's a lot. Like like our we can't look to the world or programs or systems. They're actually not designed to have that. That's a lot of children, right? The average, whatever 1.9 children in America is like the average. So we do need to go to the Word of God more importantly and see what does God have for me to disciple to raise these children. Obviously, from Deuteronomy 6, we get the walking with, the walking alongside. There is an aspect of teaching, communicating that, but there's definitely a a very hands-on approach, it seems like it's a doing with, it's not just instructing and then go out and you know, hope that goes well for you. It's it's a very side-by-side. And the big thing today that I think probably all dads need to recognize is it's it's it doesn't come out and say it, but it's time. It's gonna be time invested and it's gonna mean time sacrifices from other things. And how are we gonna invest that as dads?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Right. I think large families are particularly challenging. I mean, there's a reason why the world doesn't want to have children, it's because it takes sacrifice to have children. Yeah. And if you have two children, uh, and then you go to four and go to six, you're gonna sacrifice more. It's almost like every time you have a new child, you have to sit down with your wife and say, okay, what how am I gonna change my schedule now? Adaptive because I have another child that I need that needs me one-on-one. And so you're your sacrifice. I mean, a large family is a tremendous blessing, but it's going to be a tremendous sacrifice. What will you have to sacrifice specifically? What are the things you have to sacrifice? Your golf game. Sure, your me time, you know. It's always it's always the the stuff that you you feel like you have to have for for yourself. But yeah, it's the golf, it's the hobbies. But I think it's and and Danny, you've mentioned this integrating your children into what you do. You know, yes. You can keep your hobby of building things, you're integrating your sons with you. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

No, that that's important because a lot of a lot of dads think, oh, I can't do anything now. I've just got to sit in front of the Bible with them 24 hours a week. Well, yeah, that's part of it. But just keep doing what you're doing and bring your your children along. And yeah, I mean, with eight children, you it's hard to get the one-on-one time. You still want the one-on-one. But you know, I had to do I've had to do a lot of things in pairs, you know. Well, I can take two children and and do that. And that's so sweet, and there's a sweetness about that. But we have to get, we have to think what God would have us to do. Yeah, and I children.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

I effectively quit my corporate job, was it 27 years ago? And uh and worked with Czech for a while, Christian Home Educator Colorado. We're thankful for that. And brought my son with me. I mean, that was a big part of why I quit my corporate job, because I wanted to integrate my son first and foremost into my life. And I kept asking myself the question is there a reason why my son cannot go with me? Remember, I had this opportunity to sort of sell a book to a major publisher. And I I stopped off at my house and my son said, Hey, dad, can I come with you? And I thought, oh, I don't know. He's nine years old, you know, in this important interview. I'm not sure exactly if I want him with me at this interview. But at the end of the day, I said, No, no, I think you should come with me. I think this is a big great opportunity for you. And um, and yeah, you sat through the whole thing, this hotel room, as I sold this concept to this publisher. And uh we drove off. He said, Dad, I think you did a pretty good job. But there were a couple of areas where I think I would have done it differently. We had all those conversations. We we would be together for hours upon hours, and I think that that didn't make a difference for him.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, I was thinking about my upbringing, and I can remember a few lessons from my dad in terms of like specific teaching moments. I can remember, you know, conversations about the path of wisdom, the path of the foolish, specific exhortations here and there. But I remember a whole lot of watching my dad go over to Russia and work with Russian orphans at age 50. I remember a whole lot of him sacrificing to minister to homeschool families in Washington State. I so much of what I remember about my discipleship are the things that we did together as a family uh to work, to serve the Lord. And I think that I I mean they say, you know, more is caught than taught. And I and I and those lessons are the lessons that stick out in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Yeah, I'm the same thing for me, raised on the mission field in Japan. And again, sacrifice is a big part of this. I think we have to ask ourselves, what are we willing to sacrifice for Jesus? Now that applies to every follower of Jesus on earth. And uh, but within the context of the family as a father and a husband, I think we need to ask that question, not just what are we sacrificing for our kids, but what are we sacrificing for the Lord Jesus Christ in discipling these little ones for him? And my dad was willing to sacrifice, he gave up pretty much everything to go to the mission field. We were extremely poor. Um, but my dad prioritized his family over all things. I mean, always the family over the ministry. So uh we were with him, you know, six, seven twenty-fours uh constantly. My dad had us integrated into every part of that ministry work. Um, but the two things that I think my dad did that were most effective was that my dad was was consistent with uh family worship. That's important. Consistent, just very consistent. He had a consistency about um just that 40 minutes in the morning and family worship six days a week. And then faithful church attendance, morning and evening service. Um that steadiness, that consistency was really big. My dad was humble. I think that humility is what marked my parents. You know, looking back and thinking, you know, maybe as a child you didn't recognize it, but looking back after all these years, I'd say the characteristic that was most important and significant uh for our family was the humility of my mom and dad. My mom was a prayer warrior, constant prayer, and still is to this day, hours per day for family, for children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren. So um I think those are the sorts of things that made a difference in our lives. Now six children serving God in various capacities around the world today.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

So and I think you know, when you have a lot of children, especially, you have to create systems. You have to uh on things you're gonna do every day. When you prioritize something, you create a system so that you're you're in a rhythm of doing it. But there's also then the danger of relying upon the system uh to be the the salvation. And uh there boy, it's a hard balance between them because you know you do need the every morning at 720 to come out and read the word of God. Your children need to see that. But but at the same time, you're not relying on all these systems to do the saving. It's uh you're you're you're you're asking God to do the saving. So create systems, but don't rely on the systems to do all the work for you.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

At root uh faith and love. At root faith and love. I mean, it's uh the the faith of a father matters. And uh, you know, the faith is exhibited in prayer, it's coming to Jesus, bring your children to Jesus. Right. But all in faith, you know, looking to Jesus, the author and the finisher, and uh relying upon God to do the increase, uh, we have to be faithful farmers. I think the farming uh analogy really works for a couple of reasons. One is that you pretty much have to farm for 18 years before you see uh the increase. That's one. Uh two is that you know, farmers can't guarantee an outcome. Right. You know what I'm saying? You get you're gonna get uh bad years, not enough rain, etc. etc. So I think the farming analogy really works in that you're planting seeds, watering the seeds over 18 years, just this humble, consistent. They work hard. They work hard. Yeah, but looking to Jesus, looking to God to bring forth the increase, right? And the increase is 100% in his hands.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

And uh so that that's one way we we we avoid the recipe oriented if I just do this, I will be sure to yield this kind of an increase. The thing is the second thing is love. I mean, just to love God and to love our children. Deuteronomy 6.4 begins with love God with your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then the word of God is is is dwelling in the heart, and that results in this sort of natural sharing of the word of God as we sit in the house, as we integrate it into every aspect of our children's lives. So I know I was thinking as I as I was we're driving in here, that this love for God and love for your children is key. If you don't love God, then you're just mechanical. It's just a mechanical thing. And and it's just you know, it's just not gonna work. That you put your kids first and not God first, and uh that's gonna be a disaster. But uh if dads don't love their kids, the kids will figure that out pretty quick. So so not loving God, putting your children above God, or putting yourself above God is not gonna yield any good fruit. I mean, there are exceptions, obviously, but uh God will do some things in our lives and the lives of our children. But also our children need to know that that we love God, number one, and that we love them. And uh I think those are the two basic questions to ask first before you get into all of the discipleship stuff. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

I mean, I maybe the first question is how how's your relationship with God? You know, how how's your Godwardness? Yeah, because we are examples to our children, they're watching closely when we don't even think about it. You know, how's start there? And then I would go to how's your marriage? I mean, you know, we have to have these building blocks first. I know we we do tend to kind of jump to well, I gotta disciple my children. Amen. And we do need, but but these are the found how do I love God? How's my my spiritual connection to God, my devotion to God? How's my personal holiness? How's am I growing? And then how's my marriage, right? Marriage, it's very, very important. And then we can go, let's go to other things. Like we have to have these in the right order.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Thinking in terms of a relationship with you know, with Jesus, relationship with our wives, a relationship with the body of Christ, and a relationship with our children, it's interesting how relationships can grow warm and then they grow cold. And it's just, you know, that happens, right? Oh, yeah. And so if we ask ourselves, where's my heart? Where's my relationship with Jesus right now? Yeah. And where's my relationship with the body of Christ right now? Because your relationship with the body of Christ has a lot to do with your relationship with Christ Himself. And so as your heart grows harder towards the brothers and sisters in the local church, or your heart grows harder towards your wife, I'll bet your kids figure that part out. Oh, that's confession.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, that's true. I mean, you know, right from the beginning of time, Adam and Eve had a very warm relationship with God from the beginning. Then sin came in, but what did they do? Yeah. They hid. Yeah. They they didn't want to admit that they did something wrong. And then the distance happened, and the relationship got broken. And the same thing happens with spouse and children.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Aaron Ross Powell Maybe if we think of passing on the faith to our kids as just propositional, um, they're gonna believe certain things and they're gonna do certain things. That's a real pitfall. Um but what we're after is a relational idea of passing on the faith that's covenantal, in in which we see ourselves connected to Christ, we see our family as connected to Christ relationally, we see ourselves connected to the body of Christ, and passing on the faith is to see our kids in Christ, in our family and in our church. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

So, Danny, you were talking offline. The discipleship cannot be just the 40 minutes or the 30 minutes in family worship. Now, it's critical. That seems that's kind of core. Yes. Because we're starting in the Word on a given day, and you do that. What else is involved in this discipleship? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

You know, piggybacking off of what Todd was saying, if I want my kids to be disciples, I have to ask myself, am I a disciple? And I think one of the sweetest things in parenting is being a disciple of Jesus alongside your children. Yes. And I that's how I like to think about discipleship conversations with my kids. You know, I have these conversations with Katie right now. She's, you know, kind of the the the the type A, has it together, oldest child. But man, you know, she she she has her daddy's pride. And so that's the conversation. I say, Katie, I see this in your in your the way you're treating your siblings, but and and you have your dad to thank for this. Okay. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the way that I've exemplified this. But here's how God is discipling me. Here's what he's teaching me, and and here's what his truth says for you and me together. And that that is so sweet. I I I I love that. I I love these opportunities to come alongside and sit at the feet of Jesus together with my children.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I think it's it, you say the word of God is basic, that 40 minutes, that's the mirror. What do you do with the mirror? With that. What do you do when you see yourself in the mirror? If it doesn't lead to confession on a daily basis, then the 40 minutes is almost, I don't want to say useless, but it's not doing what it ought to do.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

Yeah, I want to tell you guys just something happened to me uh last week. I was at a restaurant with a client, and then I could see, but I you know, sometimes you're at a restaurant, you see somebody at the table next to you, and it was this 17-year-old uh lady. I mean, y you know, uh and and her and her father, clearly. Uh but I mean, you know, and you observe you typically 17-year-old daughters, you know, I don't know what their relationship's like with their dad, but wow, she was just going on, and the dad was like, they were smiling, and she's just talking and talking, and he's listening, and he's not saying much to her. Exactly. And I thought, that man has invested in that relationship. I mean, the trust he has built. She on she just trusted him so much. She's like, oh, daddy, and this, and she was just going, oh, my friend told me this. And he's just listening. I mean, the investment over 17 years was is obvious.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

That doesn't just show up over the last time. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Absolutely not. And precious.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Imagine that wasn't just cultivated in discipline and corrective conversations. Absolutely. They've been going on dates together probably for years. All of these building blocks of positive serving interactions, working together, ministering together. You know, I could tell just together.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

That man listened, slowed down and listened. And I go, I was convicted. I would go, do I do that very well? You know? So it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I I'm growing in the one-on-one. I'm growing. Amen. You know, I I'm getting better all are I'm getting better at it. But uh, you guys are in the middle of this. Yeah, you've got five children.

unknown 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Am I is it seven or eight? Well, I have eight children. Eight, that was it. Six are at home still. Six are at home. Still a lot. How do you do the one-on-ones? Because Bill, you said one-on-one is critical.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

I believe so. But so how do you do it? Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

These guys are eight children with five children. How do you do this? You know, I've done a variety of things. Um, I I have taken my daughters out, you know, for lunch or something. I mean, that's more, more, maybe more customary. But I think it is sometimes, you know, we'll try to do a lot of things as a family, like we'll do these little work projects or landscaping projects, and that's all part of it. But there does need to be a time where you pull them aside because particularly in a big family, you some children kind of get lost in the mix and go, yeah, well, I'm here part of the covenant thing, and that's wonderful. But does dad and mom know me? Do they know me? And because God each has made each child different, we we have to know the differences so that we can minister and disciple them and love them accordingly. We, I think there was a program we talked about correct correcting children. Well, it depends on the child, you know, how how you're gonna. It's the same thing with when they're when they're launched into life. How do you do you know them? So there is a one-on-one. I said, you know, with eight children, I done a lot in pairs. You know, I would I would do things pair just because, yeah, finding the time for all the one-on-one is important, but it looks different. I mean, it could be as simple. I mean, you'd be amazed in a 30-minute walk, go for a walk with a daughter. There's you'd be amazed what can happen in 30 minutes and you know, just being open and sharing. Um, but with sons, it might be let's go do something together, with let's go work together. Um, and it might be let's let's go out and talk. So I think a variety of things is is is helpful and good, but just committing to it, investing in it, being intentional about it, you know, putting it on the calendar. My wife's good at reminding me, like, yeah, I think you need to spend a little time with this child. And it's like, you're right, I do.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

What about doing projects together?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, we uh made the decision to finish our basement recently. And one of the things we talked about was okay, dad doesn't have a lot of margin. Is this the sort of thing that is going to take away from the kids or add to the kids? And we concluded that uh our kids are at an age where they can be involved in in this. And so yeah, last Saturday we were uh grinding down concrete floors to prepare for laminate flooring. We were doing plumbing and and Jed and Katie were there along with for the ride. So yeah, I think that's uh a real opportunity. The other thing though is just the moments. Uh, I think affirmation, just small opportunities. Hey Jed, I saw how you did the the dishes at dinner time. That was really good. Just even that little I see you, I recognize what God is doing in your life uh helps with those one-on-one connections as well. One last practical thing that we uh I I don't think this has been a strong suit for me, but I'm growing. We started doing, and and some of you are probably like, well, Danny, you're a real underachiever, but we're doing uh Tuesday night daddy dates, and it's literally 45 minutes with one child once a week. That's wonderful. And that's not a lot, I admit, but it's it's more than we were doing. Sure. I know dad who does 30 minutes with each of his eight children every week. I I'm not there, but my kids know when it's their daddy date that week. And by the way, I missed it for session meeting on Tuesday. I was wondering how that worked. Yeah, but uh, and and he was a little downcast, but it's a little something that has been helpful. That's great. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Back in the day I did it on Saturday morning when my children were small. I took one of them out each Saturday morning. And um, we would uh I didn't have any money, so we would do banana and peanut butter sandwiches. I would make those lunches either early that morning or the night before, and we would go out. And then when they were like seven or eight years old, I'd take them into a uh a a parking lot, an empty parking lot, and let them drive on my lap. And boy, they they just really love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, yeah. The go ahead. I was just gonna say we do ours at home, you know, so it's it's very low budget. We share one sparkling drink. Okay, and that's Oh, that's your date. That's our date. Yeah. So we go into a break bedroom upstairs and we play Kiva blocks or talk. It's at home. It's it's it costs us about a 80 cents for that one.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Unless you get a food cooker. I I a big thing switched for me when I thought about these projects. And I thought, yeah, any project I have to do, I I want to know how to integrate my children to it. Sort of like, I don't want to do my project this project unless they can be part of it. Sure. And that was a big shift for me. And to where even there were some projects where like, uh, I think I'm just gonna hire this out because if they can't be like concrete, uh, you know, I mean if they can't be involved, I'm not really interested in it. I want to do this. I want I want I want every opportunity. I want to live life together. Let's talk about the church.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Um, I I look at the church as important. Um that's uh it's a vital element of our lives. Uh I know our our family-based ministries are interested in the reforming of the family, but if the church doesn't play a part, uh that's an issue. That is an issue. How do our children get saved? Well, Romans 10 has got to have something to say about that. Uh how shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? How shall they hear without a preacher? And I believe that ties into the church. There is something about the preaching of the word of God that has an influence upon the hearts and minds of people, of children. And this is one of the primary means God uses by which to bring about the salvation of his people. Right. And and I know there's a lot of families out there going, actually, we don't need the church. We're actually doing just fine. But but I would argue that the church is important. Right. The the church is Jesus' body, right? The church is the means by which our children will be saved, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Some of it, Kevin, is a pushback against like the church uh in the 90s for that I went to was was grabbing the children. You know, as soon as we walked in the door, everybody just split off. And uh, you know, even in church, you weren't worshiping together. They had junior church or children's church. That's not church, that's not really what the Bible intends to be happening in the church. Right. And the church was try they were trying to help you with your children, but it was kind of the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

But you're making the point, they need to be hearing the preaching. They do, in the there, from from the preach. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

One of the things every Sunday one of the questions my wife and I asked uh early on was when our children are launched, you know, whether that be into marriage or something, what what are they gonna say about the church? Like the church is important to me, or the church is uh kind of a like cherry on top, you know. What what was their view? And I remember um, you know, it's a good thing to ask your children too, what's important to you in a spouse as you approach marriage? Are they gonna say, I I want a spouse that loves the church of Jesus Christ? You know, I mean, as are I mean, these are the these are the things we were thinking through. Um, but of course you can't manufacture that like we talked, you can't just force that in. But how do you do it? Well, you love the church, dad. You love the church. And church can be hard, right? Churches aren't perfect, all of that. But how do you walk through that faithfully, knowing that this is what God has for us? This is the body of Christ, we're to lean into.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Right. And a faithful church is uh basically a church that teaches the word of God. Uh there's church discipline, there's accountability going on in the body, they love one another. We've learned how to work our way through conflicts, forgive one another. That's right. And uh and the preaching of the word of God is there. Um, we're equipping and also discipleship. I would I would put in discipleship as a major portion of what the church does. I like to say it's a 2 Timothy 2-2, 4-2 thing. Um 4-1 and 2 as you preach the word in season out of season, right? But 2-2, 2 Timothy 2-2 is that there's a discipleship of the young men by the pastors in the church to prepare these 18 to 28-year-olds to be the future fathers, pastors, elders in the next generation. So that they will continue this process, this replicating process of building the church of the Lord Jesus Christ generation upon generation. So so if your church is not preaching the word of God and is not discipling the young men in the church, then I think we're off center on the two most important things that the pastoral epistles, I mean, if we're gonna trust God's word, if we trust Paul or trust Jesus with this, um evidently whatever Second Timothy 2, 2 and 4 2 is saying to the pastors has got to be important. And so so the discipleship of the young men, I'm talking about the 18 to 28 year olds, to prepare them to be the future pastors and fathers and husbands in the church for I would say, you know, next gen church is is crucial. It's just got to be happening.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

And and in terms of this, the context of this, I dads, I would encourage you to serve the church with your family, with your children. Um, I talked to a lot of families, and you know, they're they're doing a lot of things. Amen. For that, you know. Well, we had to go to swim lessons and and we had to set up the garden, and we had to do and like but we just see you on Sundays. I mean, but how about let's set some of those things down and figure out how as a family, how can we serve the church, be integrated to the church? That will uh definitely shape your whole family's view of of the church. There are some ways to do that, Todd. I mean, just throw out some practical things here. Well, uh, I mean, first of all, there's the local church, and then there's the the wider church of Jesus Christ. I mean, uh, you know, I always thought about that when my when my children were little, like, you know, what are they gonna they're you know, six and under. What are we gonna do? You know, what what what can we do? But there's there's you know, rest homes with widows out there that would do that for no absolutely would just, I mean, all you gotta do is show up and they're delighted to see anybody. And my girls would play their violins and things like that. But there's there's just just being there is a big part of it. I mean, there's simple things you can do. I remember we'd go and pick the weeds out of the rocks at church, you know, and there's there's all these fabulous lessons, you know, from the word, like we're gonna just Jesus picks the weeds out of our heart too, and he replaces it with good things. I mean, you can just go on and on. So it doesn't have to be complicated. And I know some churches that don't have, oh, here's 50 ways you can serve the ministry. Well, sometimes we need to think of think of ways you can do that.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

I remember your daughter's bill would help with some of the the mothers in the church, right? You know, going through a period of of struggle and they needed a little extra something on the side.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

And we had to make sure that we created a culture where there was flexibility in our schedule for that to happen. You know, they weren't off working at McDonald's at 16 or 17. Not that that's necessarily wrong, but we had them home and there was lots of flexibility where they could literally go for two or three months at a time uh to do that work. But I think we need a a culture of warmth towards children in the church, right? This idea, again, of sending them out during the preaching or their you know, their distraction if there's a few babies crying. No, no, yeah. The children will pick up whether or not they're welcome. And I and I would challenge even pastors and and and deacons and and leaders in the church to have a warmth towards children. You know, that you you when a child walks by you, you know, they're you're recognizing a child, that you have interactions with with even small children and babies.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Well, Jesus took them in his arms, he blessed them, and of such is the kingdom of heaven. So you know, I think children should be members of the local church. I know that's controversial, but uh but you find household membership throughout the New Testament. So this is not unusual, biblically speaking. Uh so let's just bring whole households in as members of the local churches. And so they can consider themselves to be part of, yes, the visible body of Christ, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

That's okay. You agree with that, Tom? Absolutely. It's very important. Yeah. Yeah, that's very important because we don't we don't want to segment. We just don't want to segment. I just don't, that's not what that's there's nowhere in the word you're gonna find that.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Uh a brother recently was communicating to me this dynamic in some churches that he's been a part of, where it's sort of the the job of uh the parents to see their kids through to their sort of conversion experience, their public profession, and their baptism. And then from there, that's like the end point of discipleship almost. That's the beginning. This the baptism is the beginning of discipleship.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

I realize that's how you say Matthew. I think that's enough somewhere. You know, like uh Matthew 28. Baptize them and then what? Teach and teach. Yes. And teach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

And teach and teach and teach and teach.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah. But but maybe we need to guard against this idea that uh we're we're we're there's a point at which we stop daily calling our children to faith in repentance. And this is our job as long as they're in our home. We don't turn it over to the youth group, uh, we don't turn it over to other people fundamentally, although we we absolutely believe in in mentorship from other godly men. But we continue uh to daily call our children to faith in repentance.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Absolutely. And it's a discipleship ministry. And I think if if the if the family is seen as a discipleship center and the church is seen as a discipleship center, I think we're on track. I mean, this is the Great Commission. So um let's talk about areas in which we get in trouble. Okay. Um mistakes that are made uh in the discipleship, and we don't have much time left, but I'm gonna throw out a couple of them. One is just the lack of consistency, I think is an issue. Absolutely. Um rhythm, self-discipline, consistency, but always rooted in priority set by love. And that's the that's the key. Your priorities will be set by your values, your values will be set by your affections, the things that you love. Do you love God? Do you love the things of God? Do you love the church of God? Right. You know, that's gonna set the rhythm and the consistencies of your home. I'm not talking about a discipline that is just military. Just get out there, we're just gonna go to church, and it doesn't matter why, and we don't really love God, but we're gonna do it anyway, kind of mentality. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about loving God that results in a daily rhythm uh and a weekly rhythm. Um, so lack of consistency and teaching the word, over controlling parents, focusing on externals, and I believe the externals are important. I'm not negating that, but if that becomes the major deal, the only deal, we're in trouble. So there, you know, what are the mistakes? I'm I'm just throwing a few on the table here. Somebody piggyback on this.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

You know, you hit hypocrisy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That can be an issue. And and we've got to be confessing our sins. Uh I mean, even to a very little child, Dad, confess your sin to a one and two-year-old if you disciplined harshly or you pick them up harshly. Look them in the eye and say, I'm sorry. My little one-year-old that can't even talk yet. That's right. And say, I'm uh I'm sorry, dad shouldn't have done that. They're gonna see it in your face. They're gonna see, okay, this is a house that mistakes are made, sin happens, and then we confess it, and then God forgives it and heals it, and we go on. You've got to create that culture uh of confession and and not being scripty. The other one is is is work. I mean, too much of the world sees that children have to play, play, play. And and I I think we have to teach our children how to work. I mean, life is is difficult. When when God brought Eve to Adam, it wasn't for a playmate, it was for a help meet, right? That there was there was a job to be done. And and we needed uh he needed help in getting the job done. He needed a helper. So we're we're teaching our children how to how to work. And we're finding joy in in the work. It's not like work is one thing and then play is the next thing. You know, you begrudgingly do all the chores and then you get to play for two hours. Don't create that in your home.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

No. And I think you know, dads need to example that. Yes, dad, you need to be a hard worker yourself. Enjoy work. But but yeah, and and that is inspiring, be inspire the Dominion mandate, really, which is we get to go and look what God's given us to do is go and do things uh for him. Right. And and there, yeah, there needs to be obviously a joy and excitement about that, but uh it's also celebrating, affirming, as you said, those like, look what we did. We picked up that pile of trash. Take a picture before, take a picture after, show it to mom. I mean, there's a lot of things we can do that that really would inspire that kind of that kind of love for work.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Amen. Right. I think uh for me, uh, losing a sense of delight for my children uh can be a real pitfall uh in the teaching or the discipleship. I remember growing up, uh father came to my my dad one time for some advice and he said, Hey Neil, I'm losing the heart of my daughter. She's having crushes on movie actors she's never met before. Any advice? And my dad wisely said um to this man, do you enjoy your kids? Do you do you delight to be with them? He says, Oh, I love my wife, I love my kids, but enjoying my kids, never really thought about that before. And my dad said, I think you should start there. Cultivate delight. And I think that's just a reflection of the heavenly father-son relationship. This is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased. And the son says, Back, I delight to do your will, oh God. So may we cultivate that sense of I love you and I like being with you. I remember what Greg Harris said. Train your children well enough so that you actually enjoy being with them.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

Yeah. There's a couple of good uh resources that could be practical. I was thinking about this particular gentleman. Um, I think it's uh created for work and practical happiness. Is it Bob Schultz? Yeah. Yeah, those are those here. Yeah, okay. Those are really good. I mean, particularly maybe for boys. Uh this gentleman has some boys, but just to help like kind of get you going on some of these ideas, uh, those those references are really good.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

So, yeah, relationship, consistency, discipline, work. We've talked about a lot of good things here. The church is still important. Church hopping, be very careful. I think it's deadly. I think it really eventually results in apostasy. I just think that's if you're gonna apostatize with the faith, you're planning that trajectory for your kids, church hopping is a great way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Well, what you're teaching your children is when you run into a problem, just quit and go do something else. Right. And if you do it with a church, they're gonna do it with their spouse. And yeah, it's not gonna go well.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Attending a bad church, and I do think you know, we need to think about this. It is important to you know, take the eight churches in the community. Sure. Uh as you're moving into a new community, okay, you got a new job into a new community. Evidently, this guy's moved into a different community. Um, yeah, eight churches. And that does make a difference. I think you need to choose the right church, a God-centered church, not a man-centered church, and that talks about doctrine. Are they really teaching the word of God? Is it a God-centered approach to worship, to life, uh, to the teaching itself? Uh is it a superficial church? Is it a entertainment fest kind of church? Is it lacking the fear of God and real love for God? These are important things. And then the other thing is be careful with competing discipleships. Um sometimes I think we can do this almost inadvertently. Um, well-meaning parents can sort of introduce their kids into a homeschool co-op or uh introduce their kids into a uh a youth group or a scenario in which they're actually getting the wrong kind of mentorships, the wrong kind of discipleships from their peer group in the pop culture. So uh the kind of movies you watch. I mean, these sort of are we talked about these things before, but I'm just saying these are the sorts of things that can get in the way of our discipleship. So watch out for these things. Any last words as we wrap this thing up? Just generally, what would you recommend for this brother?

SPEAKER_04 38:48

Uh yeah, I I think the biggest thing we took away here was doing with. Doing with. Doing with. I mean, we can teach, you know, work hard, but work hard with alongside. Just it's it is the Deuteronomy 6, working alongside, walking alongside, investing the time, recognizing your, you know, dads, we're gonna have to set things down in life to pick this up. And this is a very important cause. Let me piggyback on that.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

The scheduled versus extemporaneous. I think what we're talking about here is the absolute integration of your love for God and the love for the word of God and the word of God itself into the life of ourselves and our family. It's the integration, it's to avoid what we like to call the post-it note, oh, here's a neat Bible verse. You know, kind of this meme Bible verse. We'll start with a meme, but we don't live it. We don't walk in it. Uh, it doesn't just show up in an integrated fashion in the discipleship. And you spoke to that just a little bit off air. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

You know, we had a situation recently where I had my kids doing scripture memory together in the morning, and they're going through Ephesians 4, 25 through through 32. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, be kind to one another. And they're fighting about how to do their scripture memory together. And I said, Hey, children, let's let's hang on a second. Let's look at what you're saying. Yeah, let's apply this. This will be a really good place to apply the verse. This is why we do scripture memory. Isn't this great? God's word actually is useful. It applies to situations like this one right now. And it was just this beautiful moment of like connecting the dots. Oh, this is why dad is having us do this routine. But it's not just throutine as you're saying, it's applying it to real life. And one other thing, Kevin, just to uh piggyback on what you said at the beginning about the sovereignty of God. That shouldn't produce this sort of fatalism about our parenting. No, it's it actually produces a hopelessness because it's because God is sovereign that he's able to pull off his promises in our life. And there are so many encouraging promises about what God does when pay uh parents faithfully disciple their children. As for me, says the Lord, this is my covenant with them, my spirit who is upon you, my words which I put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants, says the Lord, from this time forth and forevermore.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

And let's just wrap it up by saying, let's be faithful farmers, but hopeful farmers and grateful farmers. Because already God has given us a great increase in our homes. We know that. And he's gonna do even bigger things in the future. And we can rely on the promises as we as we engage the faithful cultivation of the Word of God in our children's lives. Amen. As we walk by the way, as we rise up, as we lie down. That's right. Amen and amen. Okay, well, that wraps up this edition of generations. Please uh email us any of your additions, subtractions, questions, things that we need to be discussing in this segment of DFD, Discipleship for Dads, and the emails mail at generations.org. This is Kevin Swanson, along with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig, inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.