How to Find Suitors for Your Children - Discipleship for Dads

With the average marriage age at 29–32, the average man hooked on porn, and the average woman a feminist, it’s not easy finding godly suitors. How are we to identify them? How picky should we be? Bill and Todd share their lists of non-negotiables, and the panel discusses sending kids out in search of spouses…the dangers of “courtship” (and what to do instead)…whether chaperones are a good idea….and avoiding heartbreak.

Download the episode MP3 here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2520780/episodes/18956445-how-to-find-suitors-for-your-children-discipleship-for-dads.mp3

New kids and family podcast from Generations - TeachMeTheFaith.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

And welcome my friends to Generations Kevin Swanson with you today. Another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig. And yours truly, Kevin Swanson. And so what we're going to do today is talk about uh helping your kids to find suitors, potential mates. Oh, okay. Uh, and this is a huge priority, of course, for all of us. Uh now, this is um a pretty big challenge. There's no getting around it. And uh, and I have to say I'm not an expert here, brothers. I've spent some some times on this, and uh, and a big part of my life has been discipling young men, mainly because I think the more churches disciple young men, more pastors step in there, or fathers will step in and mentor and disciple young men, then we create a pool, and that becomes available for young women, and they will be hopefully more prepared to marry these young women. So that's that's been my thinking for 20 years. And um, and so, you know, creating the pool's been a big part of what what I'm hoping will help other families, and perhaps my family. Uh so that's been the vision, and I think it it's going to require a fair amount of work, uh, some effort, some uh concern to push against the zeitgeist. And when I say the zeitgeist, I mean the spirit of the age is such that the average young person's getting married at 29, 30, 31, 32 years of age now. Uh so that's marriage age has been pushed off pretty significantly. On top of that, we we're living in an age of immaturity, young men aren't maturing. Uh, we're living in an age of pornography in which what 80% of young men are hooked on porn on a weekly or monthly basis. It's it's a it's pretty much a wreck out there. That's difficult. So so I think every pastor and every father should be doing some general things, you know, all along to prepare their sons and to prepare other young men for marriage. And of course, the young women should be prepared as well. We want godly women teaching the younger women in the churches, too. So so that's the first thing I would say. But beyond that, brothers, you gotta love these daughters. Now, there's a distinction between sons and daughters here. Sons are a little more involved uh in terms of aggressively, you know, going out and finding their wife, right? But it's interesting that Abraham sent a servant out a fair distance, three, four hundred miles away to find a bride for his son. Isaac, who I believe at the time was 40 years of age. So so okay, Zach I back then was 40. They lived longer. They lived longer back then, they were lived 115 or whatever. So that's a difference, you're right. But uh but the point is that that Abraham was involved, and I think it's appropriate to be involved. To the extent that we have a good relationship, and we truly love our daughters and our sons and want to, you know, do something for them. And that's the question that comes back to me uh all the time is you know, do I have a concern? Am I praying for? Do I love my daughters and what would I do to contribute to this process? Todd, do you you you've had some recent experiences, two of your daughters recently married. What has it been for you?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah, I think you mentioned the first building block of this that I view is the relationship, right? Having that relationship. So there's trust. So I think some dads think, oh, well, I'll really invest in that when she's like 17, because that's going to be closer to win. No, it has to be the whole way. You're, you know, the whole there, you're building trust, you're developing that relationship the whole way. Um, and then my my view on that has been putting our children in proximity with with good opportunities with those that we would see them marrying. So there's a lot of different ways to do that. Like there's just the proximity of probably the church you go to and maybe where you live or what you're particularly involved in around you. Uh, but there could also be other ministries or other opportunities that that you'd want to, you know, be intentional about putting in proximity with, you know, r leaving it to the Lord, obviously, in terms of what he's gonna do providentially to bring two people together, but at least there's that there's that proximity to other godly potential spouses.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I think you and you need to be prepared. I mean, let's face it, this is the most significant decision that your child is going to make for the future of the of them serving God in in in in the kingdom. Right. I mean, who they marry is extremely, extremely important. Yes. And so you can't just go into it thinking, well, you know, we'll see how it goes. You need to be prepared. You need to be ready. I'm and again, I'm not saying prepared means you have to have 150 questions for the guy that comes walking in the door. But I mean you be better be prepared and figuring out what'sn't really important and what's what's not a hill to die on. That's part of being prepared to help either your daughter or your son uh to find something and to realize that God's gonna bring someone into their life that is going to change your child. I think sometimes homeschooling families think they got it all figured out, and if they find somebody just like their them, then their their child's gonna have a happy marriage. But actually, it's God's gonna use, I'm not saying the opposite attract kind of thing, but I am saying that God's gonna bring somebody different to help change your child and to be a better servant of God. When when God brought Eve to Adam, it was a help meet to make him better than he was before. And so expect that, but be prepared.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

That's right. One of the points I'd like to make in the past was that we need a pool, need something of a pool. Uh, if the pool is pretty shallow, that's a problem. If you're attending a church, you know, this kind of small little reformed church in Nowhereville, Montana, 26 people and 24 of them are over 82 years of age. That's a little small. That's not much of a pool. Yeah, so you can see how there are scenarios in which families are saying, well, how do we extend this size of this pool? Do we send our kids off to Bible college, for example? Do we send them off to youth camp? Do we um create this singles conference and send them off to singles conferences? What are your thoughts on those things?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

How do we extend those places, but go with them too, to some of these places, right? We used to go to family conferences, and part of the reason we went to family conferences to was to meet new people, right? You went to Presbytery or family camp, right? Right. And that's where you met new families there, too. So I more the idea of finding places you can go with them when you're trying to increase the pool, rather than just saying, hey, go over to this place by yourself or go to this singles conference or this uh keep keeping in mind that that those dynamics may change as as children get older, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

I remember my sister was 33 when she got married. Right. And so that that you know, being with dynamic changes, my sister actually met uh her husband at a at a Christian conference. She went by herself, right? And she meets this guy and she talks with him for two hours. And and to your point about the relationship, even though she went by herself, she immediately called my dad after the conversation. She's dad, I talked to this guy for two hours. You know, it was one of the best conversations I've ever had. So, example of how that, you know, being with me shaped over time.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I absolutely agree. I was thinking more of the 18 to 22-year-olds.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah, that's important. Well, we've done youth intensives as well. My real focus in the youth intensive was really to uh disciple young men. So we've we've taken young men into our home, uh sometimes 14, 18 of them at a time, and disciple them over two, three days in a row. Danny's been involved with that as well. We did that once or twice a year. And then I've got uh five to six days a week I am discipling young men. So I've got about 13 or 14 young men I'm working with right now. Uh, not just those in our church, but uh we have a handful of young men from around the country that I've discipled for about six or seven years. So not sure if you know any of those young men will marry any one of my daughters, uh, whether they'll marry anybody in our local community, but it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that I'm doing my piece and I'm trusting there's another 10,000 pastors in America doing what I'm doing. Without that, I don't think there's a hope for the future of the church in America. I just don't think there will be hope. So so we've got to find ways to invest thousands of hours into young men, and I think this applies to every local church in America.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Question for you, brothers. Uh just to put it bluntly, how picky should you be? It's a good question. It's a great question. Because I think honestly, this is uh, you know, you talked about the the the dad with his list of 150 questions. I think the record I've heard of is 400 questions for the young man. You had 10, which I'm kind of thankful for. That was nice of you for me. Um but I think uh this is a big deal. And sometimes I think maybe dads equivocate love and protectiveness. And I think there's a possibility to be protective without actually being loving or faithful.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

I agree with that. I think Matthew 7.1 ties in as well. Judge not lest you be judged. You'll use the same metric of judgment uh for yourself as you should use for others. But here's the thing: should I use the same metric of judgment for a 24-year-old as I would hold to myself at 61 years of age?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Absolutely. I'm thankful my father-in-law wasn't picky. Yeah. On the front side, and to a degree. Yeah. And that he didn't have the expectation that me at 24 of what he thought I would be at 40, 50, or 60 for sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Todd expectations, thoughts on that. I think you just uh we you can't overcomplicate it. You can get to the 150 criteria, and uh the that's pretty dangerous. But yeah, I think the basic, the basic building blocks, love for God, right? Love for his people, you know, the church. Uh and then there has to be a sobriety. I mean, we're sure if we're talking about, you know, I mean both young men or women, there has to be a a sobriety that that's there and a m and a maturity that's that's sprouting, that's not of the 40 or 50 years old, but you can see that there's something sprouting there. I think where what you're saying, Danny, is where maybe parents get hung up is well, they're a little they kind of do things different than us. You know, they have different preferences, they have different they do this thing and we're not into that. That you gotta let that go. That kind of that that's gonna happen. That's what you're talking about. God's creating this new household that is gonna look different than yours. Right. And there should be some a little bit of excitement about that. Well, they're gonna do things and build things in God's kingdom that we couldn't do, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

You know, and Danny, to your point about ten things, you know, I thought, well, you know, God had ten commandments and then he he boiled it down to two, right? And that and really I have a list here. It's a little bit more than ten, but the first two were the ones that are really important was fear of God and obedience to his word, and then humility. Right. Because if he feared God, he would want to obey him, and then humility he needed to have because he didn't have all the rest of it figured out yet, and he would need the humility to admit that he didn't have it figured out with the ways that he needed to fear God and obey him more.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

And you sort of need to break that down, incarnate those things. What would it be to be humble and uh I think you know, to incarnate those into some questions that really get to the issue as to whether or not he's receptive of correction? You know, that's a biggie. Absolutely how does he deal with conflict? Is he willing to confess his piece of it off the front end? Right. These sorts of things are pretty important. Right. Humility, fear of God, big time. Very important. But what are the questions? I mean, to simply ask the young man, are you humble?

unknown 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

And ask not only him, but ask his parents and ask his employer and his mentors, ask his friends. Yep, yeah, yeah. That's right. I know, and I had questions for people who who knew this man.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Can you read the rest of the list? Because it's not sharp.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I've got here, love go for it. Lover of mercy, Micah 6, 8, love of the church and God's people, a love in pursuit of God's kingdom, Matthew 6, 33, ability to lead, ability to provide, ability to shepherd a wife, ability to shepherd children, peacemaking skills, personal holiness, purity, vision and purpose, financial stewardship, and views on discipleship and education. Those kind of my lists there. That I created questions around those things.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yeah, exactly. And and a question related to purity is a big one. I know in the minds of a lot of folks, and that is when was the last time that uh this young man has hit the porn sides? When was the mess last time he engaged in uh personal, you know, satisfaction uh in the sexual realm? So these are the sorts of questions I think you gotta be upfront with. We have to be able to discuss these things uh because it's such an issue, especially in our present day. Um so any other questions, Todd, that you think should be at the top of the list? I'm not talking about number 147, I'm talking about the first 12 or 13.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Yeah, and this is a little bit age-dependent, you know, when somebody's 33 plus or something like it's gonna be a little bit. I think we got to remember biblically, I think biblically, this is not just about two random people coming together. This is a family and a family. So behind the young man or the woman, there's a whole family. And so I think understanding that interaction, maybe opportunities for that interaction is gonna be really helpful. That's why, you know, the events and proximity with as a family, because you're gonna go, oh, I see that family over there. Oh, I see. And you're gonna learn those things even before there's a potential meeting, right? There, you're gonna see you're gonna know families and see these things, and that can be helpful. And and also I would just say, like, live out what God calls us to do, right? He calls us to be hospitable, he calls us to entertain strangers, he calls us to do all these things. It's funny, my daughters, both of my daughters end up marrying, you know, family, a family that had we had just hosted in our home that was just passing through eight years earlier. It wasn't even in our minds. But I mean, you're just doing and you God never know what God's gonna do. Just do the be faithful, do what God's called you to do, and he'll open these doors and need opportunities. You know, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah. You mentioned that story back to my sister. This guy had knew our family from getting ministry updates from the orphan ministry that we worked with. And he's interesting, he had actually recognized my sister and thought maybe someday. Wow. And lo and behold, years later, he meets my sister in person at this conference, connects the dots. And the point is, yeah, you know, God was using that uh ministry that we were doing as a family to bring some relational connection to others.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

What are some of the red flags to look out for uh when your daughter or your son is is getting more involved in relationships or getting to know?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

You know, I was told my my daughters, I said, you know, treat every every guy around you as a brother. And when you're sensing that he's treating you something different than just a sister, just come to me and let's talk if you're sensing that he has more interest in you than beyond the sister. Nothing wrong with it. Just that's the time that we probably need to be starting to to talk if you're sensing that. But treat the treat them all with uh love and and brother. So uh as a brother in Christ or a sister in Christ. But I think sometimes if things get too far down the road and you're not uh a part of it at the beginning, you could you can have some difficulty there that you're staying close enough that you know what's happening with your children.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

So you have to know how they're responding and uh whether it's uh from a heart of uh of sincerity, sobriety, love for God, putting the kingdom of God first, Todd.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

I think what uh one thing that can be instructive is how, like if you're the parent or the father, how how are you approached? That can be real that that can tell you a lot, you know. Was were you approached with honor, with respect? Is your family treated with honor and respect? Um just just that initial connection is gonna tell you a lot. Like, oh, I appreciate this. And it's gen is there a genuineness to it, you know, that that's gonna set the tone a little bit for going forward in a relationship or not.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

I heard some teaching by Steve Walker that I think was really helpful. And and the way that the world approaches these dating relationships is a high emphasis on exclusivity. And selfishness tends to manifest itself in your mind. We're now a thing. And so I think to your point about warning signs, if you see that a potential suitor is really driving an exclusive relationship where uh trying to pull the your your child away from the family, I think that's a real potential warning sign for selfishness. Obviously, the marriage relationship is exclusive, but the getting to know process, I don't believe, should be exclusive in terms of an isolating away from other relationships.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

We talk about uh disenfranchisement and uh and heartbreak, and we want to avoid that as much as possible. I don't think it's you know 100% in life, right? We have heartbreaks. Yes. But uh, is there any way that a loving father can look out for this and be careful? To me, it's a matter of acceleration and and just governing the accelerator in relationship. That's that's pretty important. Uh and and monitoring all the time. There's a truthfulness element as well. Yeah, where are you yeah, where are you in the relationship and where are you in the relationship and and really understanding both sides of that? Sure. And the dad the dad can really be involved with that and ask questions on both sides, and that's helpful.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

He can. It can be tough. Yeah. Depending age dependent, right? Probably the older, you're gonna have a little less influence, and then the whole relationship trust aspect. But but I think there are times to set those expectations up early. That that you know, that's what I've seen that when that goes really well, is just to level set those expectations early for your son or daughter. Like, we know this is this is something that we're gonna, you know, go at God's pace here in this. And and every situation is different. There could be the other person might need need to go slower, or you know, we have to be really discerning about those. So just I just don't make a one size fits all. I think that's that's the key.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah. Bill, in terms of protecting your daughter in the relationship, how would you uh how would you do that?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

I I think it's close monitoring of of emotions and you're you're in constant communication with with the guy. I mean, you're teaching them how to get through life. Yeah, I mean even after they get married, they're gonna have to work through things. It's you're gonna have expect bumps in the road. Uh that's why I told them, I remember telling my daughters, both of them, that you got to expect bumps in this road. A bump in the road doesn't mean that things are bad. It means that this is normal and good, and you got to figure out how to get through a bump in the road.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Just to unpack what you said, though, um, you said close monitoring. Yeah. Uh, you know, in my experience, courting Megan, you never required us to have a chaperone. And I think that some people when they hear monitoring, they think chaperone. But I think to the ideal here is that you have a relationship in which monitoring the heart. You're monitoring the heart and communication is flowing so freely. Right. And and I think that's one of the pitfalls is we we can uh uh overemphasize the structure and and and miss the relational piece of it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

And go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

And one of the things I remember from our conversations is you you talked about the whole idea of a ramp. You talked about acceleration. And I think one of the dangers of the courtship movement is that when we did this thing that was this really official public courtship announcement, what it did is it got the commitment detached from the actual growth of the relationship. And I think that that's what acceleration is. You want to keep commitment levels commensurate with the actual development of the relationship. And when we get this big commitment thing out there and the relationship's not quite there, that's where I think we tend to get to heartbreak.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

When you accelerate in a car, you don't really want to be pedal on the metal where everybody's head is just smacked back to the seat. And I think that happens sometimes in the courtship thing when that official announcement's made. Um so we have to be very careful that it's it's more of a continuous function versus discrete function in mathematics. That we're just, you know, monitoring that or being careful on the accelerator. Uh the other thing in the conversations, I I think what's been helpful to me is just to be constantly interacting with my daughters on questions like are you comfortable with this situation? Uh is this a healthy thing? And is this going in the wrong? Where's your heart in this? Uh are you at this point needing more accountability than you did before, just simply because maybe your heart is rushing a little bit further into this. Uh so those sorts of questions are helpful just to put those on the table. And I found my daughters actually appreciate the fact that I'm asking questions like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Um so anyway, yeah, communication and knowing your child's weaknesses and strengths are important. That's huge. You know, you you actually may have a child that you want to shop around there versus another child that you don't. I think there it's a possibility. You have to know the child, their strengths and and their weaknesses just to to say never or always bad bad move.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Well, there are Our families with uh a daughter, twenty-eight, twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-two years of age. Thirty three. Thirty-three years of age. What do we say to them? What do we say to that dad? We're this is discipleship for dads. We love our daughters. We want the best for our daughters. Um you know, I write letters, uh I interact with other parents, being careful not to, you know, give them the prophetic word that, you know, my daughter is for your son, and I got this word from God last night. You know, I'm not doing that, any of that. But what kind of proactive things can dads and moms do to to increase the size of the pool, to engage, to get to know more families. Give us some ideas here. I'm sure there's somebody out there going, man, um, we need we we really want to do something. We love our daughter, we want to do something for our daughter. She's 28, 29 years of age. Um, and that's of course why I've done the intensives. And the intensives have brought together, I think, three or four couples thus far. Um, and and I think they've been effective. They've been ways in which, now I believe the best situation is to do a discipleship thing, an intensive form of discipleship for young folks, and uh and find those young people that are, you know, loving God, they love his word, they want to grow, they they're in a growth spurt, a spiritual growth spurt. Uh, I I encourage young people to get married in the midst of a spiritual revival, their own spiritual revival. I mean, if it's a spiritual revival happening with you and uh spiritual revival happening with your prospective spouse, uh that's a probably a pretty good healthy environment in which to move ahead in a relationship. So those are some of the things that that that that I would recommend uh for churches and families out there that are concerned for the future marriages of their children.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah. I I just it's interesting. I just spoke to a dad who is in that situation with with an older daughter. And I said, What did what is what are you doing? What are you what did you learn? Like your question. And he's just said, uh, you know, two things. One is, you know, we talked about putting in proximity. He said, I wish I'd started that earlier. You know, I I'm waiting now till 35 and now I'm doing, but you know, you can start that earlier. That was kind of one regret he had. The second was he said, I was just too, I was looking for the 50-year-old mature young man. You know, too picky. Too picky. And so he was regretting that now. So we all these things we've talked about, it's just, you know, we we have to be intentional about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, Bill? Well, it takes it takes a lot of prayer and a lot of trusting big time uh in in the Lord. But I I think finding things to do, you know, if you really if the pool is small, are you are you are you considering that you're doing too many things just your own family, too, and you're out in the middle of nowhere and you're you're out and doing just the farm thing, and you know, all these things where we we set up to protect our children, which was a good thing. But are we are we too segregated from from the church and the church, the bigger church? Um, you know, maybe we need to get more active in going to some things where there's more of these believers. I you know, I went to college and I found my wife at college. Now, again, a lot of folks do. Yes, of course, yeah. And you know what college did to me? It said, Bill, you're 18 now. You need to get serious about life. That's what college did to me. Like, okay, I'm supposed to figure out what I'm gonna do with the rest of my life, and I'm gonna spend these next four years preparing for it. And I remember my junior year thinking, I need to find someone to marry because I'm supposed to get married. You know, again, that these were kind of the norms that were set, but it it at least it it said to me, hey, you need to get serious because I was wanting to go play basketball all the time. That was it. And then these things said reminded me that I was supposed to think of other things. So some of those things could could be helpful. I'm not necessarily saying to send your child to a Bible college or not to. Just if you send them away, stay very close to them relationship. Yeah. Any last words?

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I know it's hard for for you. You're not in the middle of this yet, but uh any other thoughts on this, Danny?

SPEAKER_01 26:43

The thing that was coming to my mind is is uh the verse, I being in the way the Lord led me. And uh a lot of this is stepping one foot out. Uh you know, what is the next thing that God has put on your heart to do? Proactivity. May God uh direct each one of us as we are proactive step by step.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

And the other verse that strikes me is uh trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him. In all your ways acknowledge him. Acknowledge him, to know him, to seek him in all your ways. And he will direct your path. So there just has to be a ton of acknowledging God in all our ways, and we know we got the promise there. Amen. He will direct our paths. Well, well, and on that note, my friends, if you have any more inputs, questions, especially on these issues, please email us at mail at generations.org. This has been another segment of Discipleship for Dads with Todd Strasser, Bill Roach, and Danny Craig's, my good friends. And uh thank you, brothers. It's been good. Thank you. And friends, continue to uh to tune in to us as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.