Discipling Boys Through Sexual Confusion – Interview with Aaron Boldman

What do you do if your little boy comes downstairs wearing his sister’s dress, and says he wants to be a girl? Kevin talks to Aaron Boldman from HelpMyBoy.com about effeminacy, and helping boys to ground their mindset and feelings in God’s reality. They discuss the difference between body envy and lust…the power of nurture over nature in our present culture…and how dads can disciple boys to live out their sexuality in honor of God.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And welcome, friends, two generations. Kevin Swanson, your host with you, and today we want to come to a very practical program. But first, be aware that we have entered into a weird spirit of the age. Just the last year or two, we certainly have seen the wokism of the 2020s just going into a bit of uh a weakening, at least for the time being, but with the young generation, still something of a significant issue. The most recent data is that 23% of Gen Zers are LGBTQ spectrum. Among the girls, it's higher, supposed to be about a third. And this is seriously messed up. The first um generation that still is alive with us, silent generation is demonstrating something of just a 1% on the LGBTQ spectrum. I think one of the reasons is that the whole homosexual thing is presented at the junior high and high school level as being the cool thing. Certainly media has presented it as the cool thing. Uh just about every genre that you can think of has been uh adoring the homosexual movement and uh presenting it as uh the preferred ethic of the day. It's really seriously messed up. 3.3 percent of 13 to 17 year olds are saying they're transgendering. It's one kid in every classroom, so that's pretty prevalent for the day. Well, uh, I want to start with God's law first, and there's no squeezing around God's law. Deuteronomy 22 and verse 5 is clear. The woman shall not wear that which pertains unto a man. Neither shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. Also, 1 Corinthians 11.14 speaks of this as well. Apparently, there was some of this LGBTQ spectrum happening in Corinth at the time. Corinth known for its sexual promiscuity and uh and perversion. Here's what 1 Corinthians 11.14 says does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him. Also, 1 Corinthians 6, 9 is one of the key verses that ties in directly to the subject. Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, the words mullicoi, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals shall inherit the kingdom of God. That seems to me that Christians have been somewhat powerless or fearful to address issues like this, partially because, well, the Zeitgeist, the spirit of the age, has really been pressing extremely hard. So sometimes we call the homosexual borg. It's been difficult for anybody to stand up and say, this is ridiculous. This is an abomination. This is you start saying things like this, and you're castigated by a present society. So I get that. But also I think that Christians do not fear God enough, and they certainly have neglected the law of God and also the gospel. You neglect the law of God, you'll probably neglect the gospel as well. It's usually a twofer. And yet uh we need to stand up and we need to equip parents on these issues. Uh today, your boy wants to wear a dress, or your girl just came down the stairs for breakfast. She cut off all her hair and says she wants to be a boy. What do you do? What are you going to say? Now, these are real issues. So it doesn't just happen in a wokey age like the age in which we find ourselves, but this kind of thing has happened all the way from the beginning of time. Really, that's uh for one thing, right why Deuteronomy 22, verse 5 ties into this very subject. So uh this is a very practical subject that I I want to get into. This isn't just, you know, hey, let's get political about this and find ways in which we can change the laws, but what do you do when your girl wants to be like a tomboy or your boy wants to wear a dress? What do you do with this? Aaron Boldman joins me from helpmyboy.com, no stranger to the program. Aaron, it's always good to have you with us. Thanks for uh thanks for joining us on this. I mean, you've been working with boys and girls. You got what was it, 12 kids? I can't remember how many kids you have. Welcome. We have 14. 14.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Five or daughters, nine or sons. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Five daughters, nine sons. Aaron Boldman has got a little bit of experience on some of these things, some of these subjects, um, particularly because you've worked with so many young men, so many boys in your helpmyboy.com program out in the state of Missouri. Uh Aaron, so we're so thankful for actually the ministry you have been steadfastly pursuing for all these years. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yep, God has blessed us greatly, Kevin. And we've had about 500 boys go through here in the last 24 years. And it's been interesting. The last seven years, five, five really hardcore, uh complete shift in the kind of kids we get. Yeah. It doesn't look like the old days. And everything you just said, that's that's what's trickling down now to us. You're so seeing. Oh yeah, after 2020, um the whole COVID deal, it definitely um all the wokies and all the transgender, the furries, the you name it, it's just the kids are still there, right? You you're correct in saying that the our society has sort of slowed up on that a little bit. But the the the aftermath, right, in the wake of this, there's kids still you know floating in the mask back there. And we're we're seeing that a lot of those boys at Future Men. So yeah, Future Men has been a um, we've just seen this shift. And it's it's uh it's great. I'm glad to have families, it's wonderful, glad that we could be there. But you definitely need to have your worldview ready for this. And as a parent, there's a lot you can be doing to not affirm and but also to address it in discipleship and not in anger, not in um this isn't really a disciplinary issue. Well, it can become a disciplinary issue, but this is more of a discipleship. Yeah, that's where your focus needs to really be. And so thus the parents gotta have their heads around this as well. So for me, right, I was you know born in the 60s, uh, raised pretty much in the 80s, uh, way different worldview. I mean, homosexuality was still illegal when I was, you know, before I was, you know, after I was born. First 15, 20 years of my life, it was illegal in the United States. Not anymore. Right now, it's illegal to be on the other end of the deal of just criticizing. So this is just it's it's it's weird world. I I would uh just right off the cuff, I would I would recommend. Um, there's a book. Uh I don't know how you do you feel about promoting books on your own.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, go go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

There's a have you have you heard of Nancy Pearcy?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Oh, yeah. We have her on the show lots of.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Love thy body.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Oh my goodness. Her book, Love Thy Body, it's super helpful in helping parents get a bigger picture and put their heads around like what's going on in society, culture, and then within their own kids' heads. That's a big one. I think you have to educate yourself on knowing what's going on because it will hit you. Yeah. Um, I I could think of one of my sons, we do discipleship, and I remember, oh, this was probably four or five years ago. One of my boys, when he's about 14, uh, we were in discipleship, and he mentions, right, like this idea of like body envy, watching his brothers change in the bathroom, right? Because his brothers are older and pretty big kids. And and my first thought was, oh my goodness, oh no, you know, what's going on? This is this is this is crazy, what's happening? Right. And you're thinking my son's having you know homosexual type feelings, and it's it's different than transgender, but it's like the same idea of being ready as a parent. What are you gonna do? And well, just careful, quiet, you know, listen, hear him out, listen to what he's saying, uh, talking through it. You know, I realize in this particular case, it's just body envy. Right. He was going through puberty, he's seeing bigger boys, he's seeing muscles, and he's you know, skinny kid, and he's like trying to figure out where he fits in. Yeah. Well, the where you fit in, that's every kid. Yeah, right. And so your sons or daughters are, you know, maybe they're going to school and they're hearing this new subculture, you know, taking pretty good footing, you know, four or five years ago. And it's a it's a world to fit into. And whether just by saying, I'm not sure if I'm a boy or if I'm a girl, uh wearing, like you said, just starting to cross-dress a little bit at school, maybe, and maybe their parents don't even know. And maybe the parents find out because you know, they got a report from school, or they saw a picture on you know social media, or one of their friends asked them about, you know, hey, I saw your son doing such and such, or I didn't know your daughter, you know, X, Y, and Z. And apparently he kind of freaked out, right? I get a lot of these boys, you know, their parents will talk to me and they're like, I don't know what to do. You know, my son's saying he's trans or he's gender confused or he's you know bisexual, whatever. And my thing is always slow down, let's talk to him, you know, figure out a little bit, get some, get some, get some background here. What do they mean by that? Yeah, like the bisexual one came early on, probably 12 years ago. That was more common with boys here. I hear that. But one conversation with a student, and it's like you find out they've had sex with nobody, right? They're not they're not heterosexual really yet, or or homosexual, they're nothing. They're just you know, they're a pubescent kid. But through pornography, through their friends, you know, conversations, through what they're seeing in them in the media, they're thinking, oh, I think I'm bisexual because of something going on in their head. But reality is you quickly talk to them and say, okay, let's talk about what that actually means, right? You go through the biology of you know homosexuality, talking about the idea of you know uh of his words okay, like sodomy, right? That's not the same as I have a feeling or I I I envy that person's body. We're talking something completely different here. So to give those boys a green light and say, Yeah, you probably are, or to affirm that anyway is crazy, right? Talk to them, figure out where they're at first before you sort of freak out. Does that make sense, Kevin?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and not to be fearful. And I think also just be biblical. No, no. Be biblical from the front end. Uh let's talk about what the Word of God has to say. Um they're they're largely confused about who they are and what they're going to be. They need to know something about the development of their bodies, etc., etc. And I think you need to be equipped uh to do those sorts of things. So so let's let's take the boy that wants to wear a dress. I mean, he's four or five years of age.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

A little bit. Yeah. Well, okay, that's a good point. So yeah, four or five years of age, you're that's where it's gonna hit him first, I guess. And I'm not even sure that's true.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

It kind of happens sometimes. I mean, it's just it might be just something they're they're playing with kids and they don't really know what they're doing. Exactly. But uh but don't overreact, I think is the first thing you're saying, and and yet, you know, just say, hey, you know, God made you a boy. And uh and we've had opportunities to uh disciple parents and even little guys on some of these issues, and you just sit beside them and and carefully, lovingly uh talk to them about how you know God has made them who they are, and uh and their body is a gift from God, and we're to be grateful for these good things, and uh God wants you to be a little man someday and uh grow up into a big man.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yep, and the lingo, right? Yeah, because some of the lingo is very much like your true authentic self. And I feel like okay, use their own lingo. Authentic means in reality, right? And your son has male genitalia, he has you know male chromosomes, help him base his decisions in reality. He comes out wearing a dress, or I've had some of my kids come out and they'll goof around, they're dancing, they're singing, right? And then I have one particular son named Asa who is he's a showboater, he always would goof around, love to sing loud, and he would like he would wear a dress out just to get a shock, right? And like somebody coming over for like you know, they were gonna play violins, he came out dressed like a girl. Then he goes back in, changes, and laughs. Well, he's married now, right? He's got a job, he's a he's a regular guy. But it's like I wasn't thinking, oh my goodness, what is my kid doing? But I also wasn't affirming saying, hey, you know, if you feel comfortable and something like that, it's they very much, like you said, here's how boys dress, here's how girls dress. We know who we are, and it's like doing something as a skit or a shock value, or even a kid who's confused, right? Whatever their first reason for coming out that door dressed in something that kind of brings what they're maybe wanting, a little bit of shock, be the parent, right? Don't be the culture. Definitely don't think, oh, well, because he did this, thus X. It's like, no, no, think where that road leads. And yeah, I tell the future men boys here all the time, you have to have a standard. What's your bar? What's your unmovable bar? Because every decision that's made emotionally, sometimes they'll be right, but every decision made emotionally is just that. It's a first response, knee-jerk reaction from either a parent or a kid, very harmful, usually, either way. So you need to know my standard is X. It never changes no matter what the culture's doing, no matter what I'm feeling, no matter what's going on at school, never changes. You know, in my one of my worldview classes, we're talking about pornography right now. And we were talking about the the culture in like uh incarceration, right? Where a lot of men will go and they'll be they'll go and start living like a homosexual type lifestyle because they're incarcerated. And my thing is always, again, it's because they didn't have an unchanging standard. Their their like uh appetite, whatever you want to call it, shifted because of their location. Hey, no access to women, thus I change. That's that's a changing standard, right? But with a kid, it's like, okay, no matter what your friends are wearing, or friends are saying at school, we have an unchanging standard within our family. And it looks like what culture is represented by men's clothing, women's clothing, men's actions, women's actions. We had a young man in our program recently, and I was sitting with him, we were having a discipleship time, and Kevin, he said exactly what you were talking about a second ago, this whole idea of what is a feminist. Right? And I asked him because he was he was a kid who was saying to me when he first got here, I think I'm homosexual, I I've looked at homosexual porn, right? He the kid was struggling, super sad, just and he was crying, he was very emotional about this. And I said, buddy, when did it start? And he said, When I was little, and if you knew him now, he's he's very small a frame, he has what what anybody would deem as the feminine qualities, but his voice was the main thing. He said, Everybody would say I was gay because I talked in a high-pitched voice and kind of girly. And he said, So I just started believing I was. And his family, the problem was it was like no, like, hey, let's sit down and let's let's realize your vocal cords are are not your you know your morality. You're you you may have been like just blessed, cursed, however you want to see it, but your voice is your voice. And you can change some of your you know your tonation, you can change your mannerisms, but reality is you can't really change your vocal cords on a consistent daily basis. You're you talk how you talk. But he started believing what he was told. So he said, that's if this is who I am, I might as well start to act that way. So that's when he started gravitating towards pornography which aligned with that worldview. And of course, once that door is opened, you know, whether we like it or not, James 114 talks very clearly about where we go with our temptations and then where we sin, right? And then the ultimate road to that leads to death. And it's like I was telling him, you've gone down, let's say, two of those steps, right? The third and fourth step are still awaiting, death being the final step. And it's like, buddy, this is a dead end, right? This isn't where you where you should go, number one, as a but it's not even where you want to go, right? It's not a road that leads to family, that leads to relationships, it leads to loneliness and emptiness, and it's like and you're living outside of God's will. He was a professing believer, and it's like it's sad, but I think a lot of it is just like you said, it's it's when they're little, it's what we allow, it's what we sort of like laugh about, or what we don't just address and hit hard with, hey, you know, no, in this family, you know, those are things that are off limits for teasing amongst siblings.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Those are things with our if our friend groups are like uh because again, you're you're making light of something that God's God calls it an abomination.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

That's right. It's a pretty strong word.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

And it's like, I'm just like, okay, so then we respect what God respects. We don't make light of what God doesn't make light of. And that's whether that's how we dress, whether that's our actions, whichever part it is. But man, we have just uh we've affirmed it in a culture. We're even affirming it, as you I'm sure you've probably addressed on your radio show, we're even affirming it within our denominations and within our you know, within our churches, not at large, not good, but in certain sections, it's horrible. It's it's a it's what the Bible says, you know, calling darkness light, light darkness, and it's just it's a super dangerous road to be on.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

So so let's start with the word of God as a standard. Let's be sure that we're we're expressing that in a calm and and collected way with our kids early on. Be sure you start early on with these things because you know we we we see this as early as three, four, five, six, seven years of age. You do, you start to see little things that that show up, and a lot of times it's just foolishness, but you correct that because you know we don't do that because God doesn't want us doing this. Um but where is the line to draw? Um, Aaron, I mean, and I know every family is going to draw this line differently, and I've just maybe described this for us boys playing with dolls, girls want to climb trees, wrestle with boys, and go hunting. Some of it's fine. But when do parents say, All right, son, you're not wearing the dress, and daughter, you're not wearing that, it's too boyish. And son, you need to become a man and do the kinds of things that men do. Um, where do you draw the line, or how do families distinguish this and discern this?

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Part of it's characterization. What do you characterize by? So you got a son who enjoys cooking, obviously, okay. Gender neutral, man. Yeah. In the old days, yes, women cook, whatever. But to me, it's like, yeah, you can have great chefs. Uh it's a wonderful thing. There's so many shows on you know the TV station now that to have you know neat, neat cooking to get the kids excited. So, I mean, I personally never really uh pretended to play chef or a cook, you know, when I was a kid because I never watched TV shows like that. And it is part of the programming. So we do have to be careful of how much of let's say role-reversing shows we're allowing our kids to watch. Girls working on cars. I mean, my 16-year-old daughter is out in the shop with me, I mean, three days a week.

unknown 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

So we I restore world cars for fun. She's always out there, she loves it. I'm like, but she's also, you know, she knows, okay, this is when we wear clothes that pertain to a lady, not like dirty shop clothes, but go to church, I'm with my friends, I look like a lady, right? And I and she wants to be a mom, she wants to be a wife. That's good. But again, what is she characterized by? What are my boys characterized by? If my if my six-year-old boy is like always following mom around wanting to cook, always like, you know, dancing, singing, cleaning, again, none of those things in and of themselves wrong at all. Characterization. If everything is, you might be thinking, okay, in discipleship and in our daily pruning, right, and of this little tree and and putting the stakes down beside him to help him grow straight, we're gonna have to focus a little bit more on some other types of like behaviors. We're gonna have to be careful to like help him understand these clothes are for this time, these clothes are never okay, right? We just help him understand there's there are societal norms placed by our God and our father. And again, my mother said this one time we don't necessarily raise kids in our culture, we raise them in our family. Because I had a buddy of mine was very afraid to have children because the world is so dark, and she's like, I hear you, but the Christ has called us for families, and I agree with her, right? And it's like, and we raise them in our homes. Don't be afraid. That's that's another thing. Yes, don't do it in anger. Dude, okay, one big step I should have backed up a little bit. Proactive versus reactive in your parenting. This is an area to be super proactive in. Absolutely. You're you're talking about like you you buy the clothes, you lay out the detores within the household, you lay out discipleship, you lay out family worship. You're doing all these things, which should be building a solid foundation for how your kid grows up. Right? It's our job as parents, not the communities, definitely not the schools, uh, and not even our church. It's our job, right? So make sure you're you're laying that foundation solid and then continue to build on it each week through discipleship, through like, you know, focusing your time and energy on those things that you're seeing as, okay, here's a weak spot. For a son, it might be he's a little bit effeminate in his mannerisms, maybe in the way he walks, maybe maybe the clothes he buys. One of the men that works for me, I I sat down and talked with him one time. I said, How do you want to be perceived? And he told me. I said, Then you need to get rid of that phone case. You need to not wear that type of shoe. It seems silly, but it's not because people do perceive us. And it's like you have to just think through the I want to glorify God in all I do. I don't need to be a stumbling block to anybody. So it's not like go wear a flannel shirt and jeans. It's not that. It's just the characterization, is everything about you lean to feminine, or are you like are are you thinking through all this stuff? Like the Bible talks about taking every thought captive. It's for ourselves, it's for our children. We set the example, and the the macho at the other end of the spectrum is so not the right answer. Right now, you got this guy who's like, I might make it right, you know, and again, cowboy boots and blue jeans, it's like, okay, sure. To a certain point, nothing wrong with those clothes either. But again, that can just be another thing you're hiding behind. And it's like that's not the answer either. Or are we how are we glorifying God? So to me, most of this takes place in a proactive way, not reactive to what your daughter comes out of the house, you know, down the stairs and say to go with your friends. You buy her wardrobe, you should already know. You know, she should already realize we have a standard in our home before I'm heading out the door, right? My I I see my wife, every time she buys shorts from my from my daughters, they parade through the living room, and then you know, she says, Are these shorts okay? We're looking at them thinking, okay, if she sits down, there's too much show. If she bends over, there's too much show. How do is it does it seem appropriate? If it does, great, go on, right? Not the as she's walking out the door with her friends, and now she's gonna be mad because they're you know they're inconvenienced, they're running late, she's embarrassed. Again, it's proactive as opposed to reactive. And this is in all these things, but especially again, when you're watching what the what your kid is being characterized by. With a little girl, my wife, for example, very much a tomboy growing up, very much. I mean, she loved hard work outside, she did not like to wear dresses, you know, she always had her hair under a hat or in a ponytail. And my wife's very effeminate, she's a beautiful lady that's like there's nothing about her that tail tells me anything like other than godly woman. But she grew up with you know, she had four brothers, only girl. Oh That didn't make her manly, right? Not at all. It just like her father and mother were very clear on you still learn these traits as a woman. This is still the only person you are. And then I know of it was never even a struggle. But it's like, but that's a good case in point of she likes tomboy type things. So what? It doesn't change anything. Climbing a tree is gender neutral. Working on a car is gender neutral. But what about her? What is she characterized by, right? Well, there were still plenty of girl things, plenty of things that were like, she's a lady.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

And Aaron, take the little boy, you know, five, six, eight years of age, and he's playing with dolls a lot. He's not really drawn into the guys. Maybe he's developing some effeminate characteristics. This might be at 12 years of age, I'm not sure. Um, but is there is there something positive a dad needs to do in the proactive sense? You know, maybe I need to spend more time with him. Maybe I, you know, he because little boys generally want to be like their dads. But he needs to spend time with dad. So I'm wondering how much you know the dad needs to shore that up and start doing guy things with the son.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Um I I would say it's an assessment I would first make with your wife, right? Ask her. Uh, you guys, in a theory at least, if you're if you're the man's working outside the home, let's say the mom's mostly home, I would have a daily check-in. Anything I need to know about the kids today? Yeah. Anything going on that I need to be aware of. So we're asking her, hey, you know, do I spend the right amount of time with, you know, Sam? Because Sam, you know, we're both concerned, we see these like traits in him. Is it something he's compensating for? Is he just with like maybe he's raised in a household of girls? I mean, that's I've seen plenty of those boys where it's like, yeah, they're they tend to be more effeminate in their laughter style. Uh, they're they're even their walk kind of demonstrates more of a woman because they've been around it their whole life. So yeah, you may have to go out of your way, again, proactive as opposed to reactive, and think, okay, again, it's not a pendulum swing. It's just maybe a balance of like, and I again, I would just ask, not ask, but have these conversations very boldly with your son, in a sense of like, buddy, here's some things that we're gonna work on, because I don't want the world to ever assume anything about you that doesn't bring glory to God. And right now in our culture, you know, these particular clothing, you know, all together as a group that you're wearing, or this particular style of like, you know, shows you're drawn to on the television, we're gonna like, we're gonna go a different direction, right? We're gonna like, again, if it's a cooking show, big deal. But if everything he watches is only sort of leaning effeminate, maybe there's house, you know, interior design and the cooking. Again, it sounds so sexist, but it's like, well, there's a reason sexism is a thing, right? There there really are gender roles. There really are like some of this is legitimate. We've taken it too far in the past, and maybe even too far in your own families. But reality is there really are gender roles, there really are a difference between men and women, and it's like by and large, that's a safe, healthy thing in our societies. And are there some men that are a little more like effeminate than others? Sure. Is it bad? Not necessarily. Same with the women. Are there tougher women? There sure are, and that's okay. But we but we when we as a society say all sexist type of stereotypes are wrong and we need to like push everybody away from it, we're just going the opposite direction. That's probably where we are a little bit in our culture, caught up in that. I think as Christians, maybe even a little fearful of we don't want to offend the world by something that God's word isn't like crystal clear on. And my son, hey, you know, yeah, he's he walks a little bit funny, you know, a little effeminate, his clothing's all soft, his, you know, I say soft, I mean like culturally soft, right? It's all like, you know, very pastelish or whatever. But reality is that the world is identifying him as non-masculine, right? They're gonna make assumptions. Those assumptions-based friendship groups, those assumptions-based temptations put in front of him, and it's like, uh, well, maybe welcome to Proverbs 19. You might be a willing party to your son's death. And I'm like, no, thanks. I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, you got to watch out for the positive reinforcement. Yeah, you got to watch out for the positive reinforcement of those sinful issues. And when we talk about these sinful issues in a child's life or anybody's life, there are two things that tie in, Aaron. I want to distinguish here. First, nature and the nurture. Okay. So so that nobody's confused as to what is happening in the discipleship of these young kids that are struggling with certain uh sinful tendencies. Now, two elements again uh for sin to for these sin issues that uh contribute to a child's life nature and nurture. In terms of nature, at the core of the child's heart is the problem of discontentment, discontentment with how God has made them, ingratitude for what God has given to them, if if anyone comes down to the sex organs, um, but an ingratitude, a discontentment. And that ultimately, I think, is the sin that undergirds the whole gender envy problem or the gender, transgender issue. Also coveting and lusting after this gender or that gender is the core matter. And you know what, that can play out uh in a two or three or four-year-old that's always grabbing for somebody else's toys. You know, it extended, this discontentment and gratitude, and lustfulness and covetousness. Hey, I don't know if you've ever run into a two-year-old, but I only see it, you know, 2,800 times a day. You know, it it all ties in together to that sinful issue in the heart of that child that really needs to be addressed. And then we bring in the gospel of Jesus Christ and say, Jesus came to save you from this chronic issue in your life. I mean, I so I think we need to start there with every parent. You know, they're not quite to transgenderism yet, but they do appear to be somewhat discontented and ungrateful and maybe even grabbing everybody else's toys. You know, this this is the sinful issue that's that's dominating the heart of this little child. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Oh, yes, 100%. And I would not like, please don't be afraid to like speak up on it. Please don't be afraid to like even seek out your pastor, your elders, or yeah, trusted family friends, because it's like the ignoring it or affirming it, all it's gonna do is push the can down the road to where he's he's now gonna be put in a different subculture that you can't control. People at work, people at school, you know, people at college, and it's like they'll run with it. Yeah, and he will finally find his acceptance, right? And his real self or she, or right, find her real self, and it's like it'll devastate you. And you can educate, you can like, you can I mean, to be blunt, you can indoctrinate to your kids, right? You can raise them the way you know is correct in a way that glorifies God, and while they're under your authority at least, right, control what that looks like, but also just through like just love and and kindness of like this is who we are as the Boldman family or as a Swanson family. It's like you know, we don't we don't participate in that action or we don't participate in that like particular style of living as a Swanson. It's like you you want that family identity, and then in the bigger body of Christ family, it's like again that standard never changes. The Swanson family, yeah, it could like change a little bit here and there. You guys could become like more interested in like you know, traveling together, or hey, you know, we have this big you know ministry family. Your family dynamics change over the years, it's fine, but God's bar never changes, you know. And when God says things like, you know, these these certain people groups and includes in that the effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God, it's like, well, what does that mean? Right? It's a little deeper than just a guy who wears a pink shirt. It's not that, right? It's a it's a lifestyle of effeminate type choices, which blur the roles that God's created us for. And it's like that blurring is very much like a you could have somebody like like Paul talks about, you know, a eunuch by birth, meaning someone whose God has just chosen for celibacy. Okay, great. It does not mean he's not a masculine, it does not mean he's not, you know, or that he is a feminine. It just means God's chosen the singleness to have a better ministry. You know, you raise those kids, the glory of God. You know, you'll know who they are. It's like because they haven't had a girlfriend his whole life, or because the girl is always like, you know, she looks like the what they least to call like the you know, the the old maid or whatever. It's like she's just not getting asked out. It's like you don't she should not be thinking, well, maybe I'm, you know, I'm maybe I'm lesbian, or maybe I'm like I'm not attracted to men. It's like, no, no, no. God makes us who we are.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Different calling.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

We embrace who God has made us.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Different calling, exactly. All right, so there's nature issues, and that that that's where we're discipling through under the rubric of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need to be digging into those heart issues from the time they're two until they're 20. We've got you know, we've got some years to do this. So so this needs to be a consistent thing along the way. But I want to deal with nurture because nurture plays in. I think this nurture thing is contributing to the 30% problem. We got 30% of Gen Zers confessing to be on the transgender scale or the LGBTQ scale. So wow, wow. What do we do? How do we how do we you know identify the bad media, the the potential groomers, the the the bad peer group? Uh obviously pull them out of public schools. We've only been saying that for 25 years. Um but you know, I mean that's not the only solution because you you've got youth group at the church, you've got the neighbor kids, you've got, you know, the the iPhones. Um talk to parents on these nurture issues because wow, uh this is sweeping up the entire Gen Z population today.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah. Well, it's where they're finding their acceptance. And I think phone's probably the biggest one. You're gonna have to find a way. So, you know, nurture, when they're little, obviously, you're you're bending the tree, right? You're you're trying to shape what's coming in the future. The phone you you cannot control. We think we can. We put control, we put limits limits on it, we set these different things, you know, to help guide what websites they can go to, but all their friends are going to different ones. They find ways around things. It's like it's it's pretty much a death sentence if you just give your kid a smartphone and stuff you have internet access.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yep, yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Trust you. Trust when a parent says I trust you, it typically means I don't really want to do my job. I don't really have to tire, you wear me out. Yeah, I just I don't want to really look, I don't want to watch after you. So I trust you until something terrible happens, and then now they're mad and they throw a fit, you know, the parent. And it's like it's not the way to do it. So the nurture is you've got to be you've got to know like Luke 645 should be the governing factor here, right? Out of the good treasure stored up in a man's heart, he brings forth good. Out of the evil treasure stored up in a man's heart, he brings forth evil. For out of the overflow of a man's heart, his mouth speaks. It's the actions, man. It's like out of the heart. What's in the heart comes out of the mouth or out of the actions. So the idea of how they dress, how they look, the kids they're hanging out with, it's all based on what's been putting in putting into them. And you may think, well, I watched them, I don't know where it's coming in. It's not you. I mean, uh, you we already know that. If you're watching Kevin's, you know, your show, they're they're not putting this in their kids. Um, it's not your church. I hope. If it is your church, you need to get out, but I doubt it is. It's it's it's just a culture. It could be through their school, it could be you have a homeschool kid who's got onto the internet in ways you don't know. And I hear stories that blow my mind when parents who have they really think they've taken all the precautions, and kids are sneaky, man. Even kids who are raised homeschooled, raised limited, raised, you know, out in the woods somewhere, uh man, they just figure out the technology and they hide it. It's like that, it's that that sin is deceitful, right? It's it's like it's got a seductor study. It's like that the flesh, the lust of the flesh, lust of the flesh, the eyes, the pride of life. It's like it appeals to us. So you got to figure out where's it coming from.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

And then Aaron, is it possible to cut it off? Is it possible to control the media, control the peer influence up until they're about 10 or 12 years of age? In other words, what you're saying is they're they're gonna find a way around it if they want to. And yet, and yet, parents still have an obligation to protect their children from bad media, bad peer group, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:59

So look at the uh we have uh on our on our little bold parenting podcast, we have one called uh choosing the hills to die on. You have to decide what those hills are. So, like a buddy of mine has uh he lets his kids go to high school when they're uh ninth grade. They start school in ninth grade, and he has pretty much all daughters. And we talk all the time. We we we disciple about every other week. He and I, I'm asking what his kids are going through. He's super proactive in their life. He's chosen that hill, and he's like, I'll accept the consequences that come with it. Other people choose the hill of I allow my kids to have a flip phone, or I allow my kids to have an iPhone, but they put it on the bar, you know, when they come in in the afternoons, or they're only allowed to have it, you know, a certain amount of hours each day. Other people is through the maybe the homeschool co-op. That's the hill we die on. We want our kids to do this. We know that there's gonna have bad friendships come through that, but we're okay with it. Whatever your hill is, you and your wife should have talked about beforehand the repercussions that come with that, the commitment that it takes to actually follow through with that, right? If you're saying we're choosing, let's say, public school as a hill to die on, we're gonna let our kids do this, okay. You've got to have time daily to get in their heads and figure out is there anything that's got in there that's getting the screw loose with my kid? Is my is my daughter being influenced by any of her friends? Is there anybody that's you know secretly communicating with my kid, my especially my daughters, because you know the boys are after them in this reality. But it's like you're you're deciding what those variables are in your life that allow the Luke 645 good and bad evil, or not good evil, but good and bad things stored up in the kid's heart. You're deciding where those come from as a parent. It's us. So figure it out. If you're not happy with it, then go back and like reassess it and say, okay, we're gonna change some things in our family, we're not gonna allow X anymore, or we're gonna start holding accountability by doing this. And the biggest thing I would say, if you're not doing weekly discipleship with your kid to go to walk through this stuff in a non-confrontation moment, you're gonna lose it. Um, I did not do discipleship with my children for the first three kids in our line of 14. I thought home devotions was enough, family worship. I thought our education, our curriculum, the homeschool stuff, we go to church, you know, we're good people. But it's like a specific time set down with with no like we weren't responding to a problem, right? Just I'm pouring into you specifically, just checking in with you, going through some books with you, just you know, one-on-one, just it's important. Yeah, we do that with the with the last 11, and it's way different. Way different. It's just it's better. And I would say I would encourage you guys to man, invest in your kids. If you're not home, you might have to change jobs, or accept the consequences that will come with that. Say, okay, I may have to enlist outside help with my kids. Get somebody else in there once a week discipline your son. Get somebody else in there, you know, exposing your daughter to things that maybe you can't, because you know, I say can't, it's a choice. But you know, I get it. Different people's economic situations are not all the same. Your family is your family. But but just know that, okay, if if if something has to give over here, then we have to make up for it over here. So you know, there's got to be this balance of I'm I'm ready, I'm having my I'm doing my job with my kid. I'm being a good steward, I'm not being a willing party to his death. Um and it takes a lot of work. And parenting is tough.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

At the end of the day, Aaron, it's impossible to totally prevent and protect a child from all evil influences. Um, just is, right? I mean, they're gonna run into a neighbor kid who shows them the wrong thing. How do you prepare for that moment? And I guess this discipleship ties into it because you want to be able to have the conversation. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Oh, yeah. If if you go to your kids, say, hey, I need to talk to you for a minute, and their response is you see their shoulders slump or they get this, uh what have I done wrong? Yeah, that's a sign that the only time you talk to your kid is when he's in trouble. Yeah, that's bad. Because if something is going on, they're probably gonna hide it from you. Um you have to find it in order for it to come out. If you're talking to them weekly and you're you're you're you're taking them places, you're doing you're incorporating them in your household chores and the routines that you're involved with, then you say, hey, let's go talk. Okay, their guard isn't up. They might be a little bit like, this is weird, I wonder what we're talking about because this is the normal time we talk. But they're not immediately like defensive.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

And then if you're really talking to them on a daily basis or on a even a weekly basis, because discipleship, you know, if it's purposeful, not just daily living, it might be once a week, it's fine. But there should be a section in there about, hey, what's coming into your life this week? What's a temptation? What's a conversation you had that like you're uncertain of? Or this kid said something to you at school or at the store or church or youth group, and you're like, oh man, I don't know, dad, because you know, he said he's talking about this, and he showed me this picture on his phone, or my friend started wearing a tail and ears to school. I don't know what to think about this. You know, we're supposed to the teachers say we have to call them by this other name, and I don't know what to do. It's like that's a conversation, right? And you can you can help guide them through that because that's your job. But if it's like they're just like if they're just navigating this thing as they go, people will often use the excuse of, well, my kids are salt and light to the world, which I can I hear you, that's true. But the question is, are they prepared to be salt and light? That's right. And and no good army commander just sends us, you know, just sends his kids out for a battle or a war and never checks on them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 40:18

It's like it's not like you just go there until you get shot and killed. I mean, you're you're there's weekly and daily like you know communication. And as a parent, again, you're choosing the hills you're dying on. That means all the stuff that comes with that, you're also assessing before you release your kid to go do whatever it is, the clothing he's wearing, the the things he's putting in his head through his music, the TV shows you're watching, and I would really, really assess the TV shows. Yeah. Um, it's tough. There's so much geared towards acceptance of the subculture right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

It's everywhere. It's everywhere. All the movies, yeah, all the Marvel movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

It's everything. Yeah, yeah. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah, you have got to be on your game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Have you watched or have you heard of Ask a Maze? No.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

No.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Oh, it's it's insane. It's it's an educational sex education thing in public schools. It would blow your mind if you watch it. It's just it's insane. It's like, wow, I can't believe this is actually happening and we're paying for it with our tax dollars. It's just, it's just, it's grooming kids for this lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

It's it's you're you're a crazy basher if you're you know, if you're cisgender, as they call it. Normal.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah. Well, we have to be on our game more than ever before as parents in this generation. Absolutely. And uh it's pretty much, you know what, you're going to have to you're gonna have to fight hard for your children's minds, souls, hearts, and lives in this generation. And uh and I I'm I'm just gonna say it. I think you're gonna have to protect your children from a ton of stuff. And of course, communicate through, and of course, walk with them through and watch movies together with and have the conversations afterwards, and you know, all of that, absolutely, you've got to be there with them. Somebody's got to disciple them. Better not be pop culture in their peer group. You're going to have to do it yourself. Tag you're it, mom, dad, you're it. I mean, God says bring your children up in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not the Sunday school teacher, that's not the day school teacher, that's not their peer group, that's not Taylor Swift. That's you, mom. That's you, dad. That's your job.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

And uh, and so Kevin, if I could say one more thing before you end here, um, it sounds like you're about ready to end. I've seen a lot of kids come into us that are um they've been they've been physically touched by somebody outside of their home. Tough uh boy, you know, extended family, oh boy, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Is that is that a big percentage? I mean, is that a lot of kids?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

It's a lot more than it used to be. Okay. And it's like, or they're acting out on their own siblings in homeschool families, and it's like it's almost never a standalone issue. Meaning, if you're if you're one of your kids is beginning to like you know, touch one of your their siblings, or you find out like your kids start to express some worldview that's so far off base it freaks you out, like saying I'm bisexual. I I'm blown away by how many of those kids, if you just peel back the layers a little bit, will start telling you a story of something that happened to them. And here's the crazy thing is so few parents know about it, but the kids are willing to tell, like they'll tell me. I've been I can think of about 12 different kids in the last seven years that have come to our school, and that was their story. And it's like they started acting out on something that happened to them. So I I say this because it's like have conversations. If you're seeing a weird, a little more extreme than you would normally expect statement coming out of your kids' mouth or behavior, dig in. Yeah, don't don't react, don't overreact. Dig in and try to figure out okay, where did this come from? Because like James 1.14, right? It's what we've been exposed to that typically defines who we are. It's not like, gee, I just woke up one day and at the age of 13, I have this sexually deviant idea. That doesn't happen.

unknown 43:50

Right?

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Something like that usually a suggestion.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, and sometimes it's porn, but sometimes it's like an action, and he doesn't know what to do with it. Um I've seen kids get this weight of the world lifted off their shoulders when they've been counseled through. Hey, because somebody touched you doesn't make you, you know, like gay, or doesn't make you you're a victim, man. It's like I don't mean a victim mentality, but I mean you were abused. Here's how you work through that. Here's how you can here's how you can overcome that. What the body bible calls like you know, beauty from ashes. And it's like it can happen.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

So Aaron Bullman's from helpmyboy.com, and they've worked with hundreds of boys and uh and really minister the gospel to so many, and they they've got biblical counselors on site, uh, they've done a ton of good work over the years, and uh highly recommend his stuff at helpmabboy.com, also bold parenting, uh, his program he uh includes on YouTube. Don't forget that as well. Aaron, thanks so much uh for joining us on Generations Today. We so appreciate uh your inputs and the conversation here. I mean we got to keep the conversation going on this because you know what? It's affecting uh millions of parents, millions of families out there.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Oh, yeah. I appreciate Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

And friends, you've been listening to the Generations Broadcast. This is Kevin Swanson inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.