Engage The Scripture Podcast
Welcome to the Engage the Scripture Podcast, where the Bible is explored through its original historical, cultural, and literary context."
Engage The Scripture Podcast
Ep 26 John 5: 18-23 The Bethesda Controversy: Jesus Reveals His Identity
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, Jeff and Brent trace the fallout from the healing at Bethesda and walk through Jesus’ longest response to His opponents in the Gospel of John. As the Sabbath controversy unfolds, Jesus explains His relationship with the Father — sharing the same work, the same authority, and the same honor. Along the way, Jeff and Brent teach through the foundational pieces of the Trinity, showing how the Father and the Son relate to one another in real, personal ways that go far beyond “one God switching roles.” These verses open a window into the unity at the heart of God’s identity and reveal why the early church saw Jesus as fully divine. Next week, we continue in verse 24 as Jesus speaks about hearing God’s voice, crossing from death to life, and the resurrection to come.
We are excited to be with you today as we engage the scripture together. To learn more, visit our website at engagedscripture.com.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to episode 26 of Engage the Scripture. I'm glad you have chosen to be with me today. When we open God's word together, it's one of the most important things we can do for our daily spiritual growth. Now we are about halfway through John chapter 5 at this point, and we are calling this one the Bethesda Controversy. Jesus reveals his identity. Last week we ended our conversation at John 5, verse 17, where Jesus told the Jewish leaders, My Father is working until now, and I am working. And that one sentence raised massive questions for the Jewish leaders. And honestly, for us too. Here are the four questions I left you with last week. Number one, what does it mean for Jesus to share the Father's identity? Number two, is he equal with God? Number three, how does that fit with the Shema? The Lord is one. And number four, what does this moment teach us about the Trinity and the person of Christ? Today, Jesus Himself is going to answer those questions, and he's going to do it in the longest uninterrupted speech he gives to his opponents anywhere in the Gospel of John. Okay, Brent, go ahead and read verse 16 through 18 for a little context so we can pick back up where we left off last week.
SPEAKER_02Okay, verse 16 through 18, here we go. And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing those things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, My Father is working until now, and I am working. This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God.
SPEAKER_01Last week we spoke about why the Jewish leaders started persecuting Jesus. If you remember, he healed a man on the Sabbath and told him to carry his mat, which broke their rules, not God's rules. If you missed that conversation, I encourage you to go back and catch that episode first. But today I want to focus in on verse 17 and 18, because John tells us that the leaders sought all the more to kill him after Jesus said, My father is working until now and I am working. So why is that? Two reasons. Number one, they thought he broke the Sabbath, which he didn't, he was doing the works of God, and number two, he called God his own father, making himself equal with God. Now John tells us exactly what the leaders were upset about. They said Jesus was making himself equal with God, and that's the charge. The word equal, in the Greek it's esos, doesn't always mean identical in nature. It means on the same level, sharing the same standing. And that phrase making himself in the Greek means treating himself that way, putting himself in that place. So the leaders aren't accusing Jesus of starting a new religion or claiming to be a second God. They're saying that he is putting himself only where God belongs. They hear him talking like that and think he's acting like God. And here's the thing, they understood him correctly. Now, just for clarity, a very small number of scholars think the leaders misunderstood Jesus here, but that's not the mainstream view, and it doesn't fit the flow of John's gospel. Most Johannine scholars agree the leaders actually understood the weight of what Jesus was claiming. So they're wrong about the Sabbath, but right about who he's claiming to be. Exactly, and this is where the Shema tension comes in. Now, if you're new with us or you've forgotten the Shema is the central Jewish confession from Deuteronomy 6. The Lord is one. Every Jewish person knew it by heart. So here's the question: God is one, so how can Jesus do what only God can do unless he is truly one with the Father? Jesus answers that question by explaining the father-son relationship in verse 19. Brent, go ahead and read that for us. Verse 19.
SPEAKER_02So Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
SPEAKER_01Okay, before I jump into it, I want you to notice that Jesus begins with Amen, Amen, or in the ESV, truly, truly. In that culture, saying amen at the end of a sentence meant I agree. Saying amen at the beginning of a sentence meant I know this firsthand. And by starting his sentence with Amen, Amen, Jesus is claiming firsthand divine knowledge here. This means he's not guessing or repeating someone else. He's speaking from firsthand direct experience with the Father. Okay, now, then he says the Son can do nothing from himself, but only what he sees the Father doing. He's not saying he's weak. He's saying he never acts on his own. And we've actually seen this pattern in John before. Back in chapters 3 and 4, Jesus keeps saying he only speaks what the Father gives and only does what the Father wants. Same idea here. He moves in step with the Father. They don't pull in different directions, they work as one. This is the ancient world's father and son training. A son didn't compete with his father or run his own program. He learned the trade by watching him and doing what he did. And that's what Jesus is saying here. I'm not a rival, I'm the Son, and my actions show the Father's heart.
SPEAKER_02So he's not a second God, he's the perfect reflection of the Father.
SPEAKER_01Right, and that's the point Jesus is making. And then Jesus gives the key line. Whatever the Father does, the Son does too. If Jesus does what God does, then he can't be less than God. Jesus is showing he shares the Father's identity, not as a separate power, but as the Son who shows us what the Father is like. And this matters because the Shema says God is one. So if Jesus does what the Father does, he belongs inside that oneness.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then in verse 20, for the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing, and greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
SPEAKER_01What Jesus says here gives the reason for that unity we've been talking about. The Father loves the Son and shows him everything he's doing. It's not a business arrangement, it's love. And notice that Jesus says the Father will show him greater works than these. When Jesus talks about greater works, most scholars see that as pointing ahead to the cross, the greatest act of God's love. Now some scholars think the greater works point to the resurrection or the final judgment, or even the raising of Lazarus, but all of those still point to the same thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Verse 21.
SPEAKER_01Here Jesus takes it even further. In the Old Testament, only God gives life. Only God raises the dead, and now Jesus says, I do that too. That's God's own authority at work. And Jesus claims it openly and without hesitation.
SPEAKER_02And he also says he gives life to whomever he wants.
SPEAKER_01What Jesus says there shows he isn't just carrying out instructions. He shares the Father's heart and moves with him. And this is Daniel 7 territory. We're stepping back into that theme we've talked about before, the Daniel 7 Son of Man theme. If you remember, that's the scene where the Son of Man comes before the ancients of day, God on the throne, and receives authority and a kingdom that never ends. And Jesus is saying, That's me. I'm the Son of Man from Daniel 7. I'm stepping into that role.
SPEAKER_02That's a huge claim. Jesus stepping into Daniel 7 role with all his authority and glory. And it leads right into what he says next about judgment. Verse 22, for the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son.
SPEAKER_01Now, just so you know, some scholars think Son of Man is just a way of saying I or a human being. But most agree Jesus is pointing back to Daniel 7, the divine figure who receives authority, glory, and everlasting kingdom. And that's exactly how Jesus uses that title here. And you're right, Brent, that would have been a powerful statement by Jesus, and honestly, it would not have gone over very well with the religious leaders. Jesus is taking on a role they believed only belonged to God. But here the Father has given all judgment to the Son. He hands that role to Jesus. Okay, now I probably need to say this because I can already hear someone thinking, wait, I thought Jesus didn't come to condemn the world. And that's right, back in John 3.17, he said he didn't come to condemn, his mission was to save. But judging and condemning aren't the same things in John's gospel. In John 3, condemning means to show up and declare the world guilty. That wasn't his mission. But in John 5, judge means something different. It's the authority to carry out God's final verdict, mission and authority, saving and judging. Both are true. The Father still gives him that role. Jesus says that right here in John 5, and you see it again in Acts 10.42 and Acts 17.31, where Peter and Paul both say he's the one appointed to judge. And then if you jump ahead to Revelation 20, that's the picture you get. Jesus is the one sitting on the throne, the one who judges the world. So the one who gives life is also the one who judges. Here's what we're seeing in this passage. He's the life giver and he's the judge. Jesus holds both mercy and justice together. He offers life to anyone who will come to him, but he also carries the authority to judge. John isn't presenting two different versions of Jesus. It's the same Jesus doing both.
SPEAKER_02Now Jesus brings it all together in verse 22 and 23. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son. Then verse 23, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
SPEAKER_01And that is a powerful statement. No prophet ever said that people should honor him the same way they honor God. That phrase just as kathos in the Greek means in the same manner, to the same degree. No angel ever said that, and no king ever said that. This is one of the strongest claims to deity in the whole Bible. And it fits the Old Testament pattern. God alone is worthy of worship. Exodus 15, Isaiah 42, and Isaiah 45. Yet the prophets promised a coming king, one who would rule, who would judge, and who would receive the service of his people. Jeremiah 23, Ezekiel 34, Hosea 3. Now let me slow this down for a second because this is important. By Jesus' day, Jewish teachers already had a category for two figures in God's story. God Himself and God's chosen king who shared in God's rule. Some embraced it, some pushed back on it. But the idea was out there. Now, Dr. Michael Heiser calls this the two powers in heaven tradition, one Yahweh who is unseen, and one who shows up and works in the world. And Jesus steps right into that identity. So this is the foundation of the Trinity? It is. Let me explain that a little further. What the early church eventually wrote down in creeds didn't exist yet. They didn't have a way to explain the Trinity yet. They were just trying to describe what they saw in passages like this, the Father and the Son, distinct from each other, yet sharing the same divine identity, the same work and the same honor. But everything you need to see is right here in this passage. The Father and the Son are different persons, but they share the same identity as God. They carry out the same work and they receive the same honor. This is where the ideal of the Trinity begins. And Jesus makes it clear, you cannot reject the Son and claim to honor the Father. To dishonor Jesus is to dishonor God Himself.
SPEAKER_02Jeff, before we move on, I think we should take a minute here. This is important. Not everybody listening grew up with Trinity language. Some folks come from apostolic or oneness backgrounds. How would they hear what we're saying?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's worth slowing down for, and I want to be fair about it. Apostolic or oneness believers read this passage differently. When they hear Father and Son, they don't hear two divine persons in relationship. They hear one God showing himself in different ways. And just so nobody gets confused, John 5 isn't talking about the Holy Spirit yet. That's another subject entirely. Right here, the focus is only on the Father and the Son. So how do mainline scholars see it? Most mainline scholars across traditions agree the Bible never uses the word Trinity, but they also agree the pieces are right here in the text. The Father is God, the Son is God, and yet they relate to each other as distinct persons. The early church didn't create the Trinity. They were simply trying to describe what they saw in passages like this, and in other places where the Father and the Son show up together in ways that go beyond one God switching roles. Now, some scholars argue that John's high view of Jesus developed later, but that doesn't really fit the evidence. Paul's letters written decades before John already show Jesus receiving God's worship, God's authority, and God's name. So John isn't inventing a new Christology. He's expressing the same one the earliest Christians already believed. Let me give you a few of those for references. John 1, verses 1 and 2 says Jesus is with God and is God. John 3 17 says the Father sends the Son into the world. Then you have these chapter 5 passages. The Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. That's John 5.20. The Father and the Son both raise the dead. That's John 5.21. The Father gives all judgment to the Son, John 5.22. The Father and the Son share the same honor, John 5.23. The Father and the Son are one in John 10.30, not one person, but one divine identity. The Father glorifies the Son, and the Son glorifies the Father in John 17, 1. The Son shares the Father's glory from before the world existed, John 17 5. The Father sends the Spirit in the name of the Son, John 14, 26, and the Son sends the Spirit from the Father, John 15, 26. So that's just a few from John's gospel alone. There are many more passages outside of John that show this same pattern. You see the Father and the Son together all through the New Testament, acting together, speaking to each other, sharing divine authority, and yet remaining distinct. John's not the only one who sees it clearly. The New Testament writers are not inventing a doctrine. They're just describing Jesus the way they experienced him.
SPEAKER_02Alright, let's cut to the chase. What's the biggest difference between the Trinitarian and the non-Trinitarian views?
SPEAKER_01Here's the heart of it. Apostolic believers see one God speaking and acting in different ways. But mainline scholars see the Father and the Son relating to each other in ways that go beyond one God switching roles.
SPEAKER_02So are there any mainline scholars who agree with the non-Trinitarian view?
SPEAKER_01There are a few scholars out there who don't read this passage in a Trinitarian way, but they are not part of the mainstream of biblical scholarship. They're usually writing from a very specific theological tradition, not from the broader center where most evangelical, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and mainstream academic scholars land. Most all of the major voices you hear in the New Testament studies, folks like N. T. Wright, Dr. Craig Keener, Ben Witrington, D.A. Carson, Richard Baucom, Larry Hutado, they all see real distinctions between the Father and the Son in the text itself. So yes, there are a few non-Trinitarian scholars out there, but they're the exception, not the center.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and for folks listening who follow this stuff pretty closely, they may already have a couple names in mind.
SPEAKER_01Right, and it's worth mentioning them. David Bernard is probably the most articulate voice from the oneness or modelist side. He's thoughtful, but his view depends on reading the Father and the Son as one person in different roles, something the relational language in the New Testament pushes back against. Then you would have Anthony Buzzard, who is probably the most academically recognized writer from the broader non-Trinitarian or Unitarian side, but his view requires saying Jesus isn't divine at all, which doesn't fit well with the way the New Testament shows Jesus sharing God's authority, God's work, and God's honor. And when it comes to mainstream New Testament scholars, you know, the folks who write the commentaries pastors use, there really aren't any who hold a non-Trinitarian view. The relational data in the text is just too strong.
SPEAKER_02All right, that helps. And one of the big arguments from the non-Trinitarian side is that the early churches did not have a doctrine of the Trinity yet.
SPEAKER_01And that's true in one sense. The early church didn't have the creeds or the vocabulary yet. They were still trying to find language big enough to describe what they were seeing in Jesus. But even the scholars who talk about development, people like James Dunn, they still see real distinction between the Father and the Son right there in the New Testament. The development wasn't about inventing who Jesus was. It was about finding language big enough to describe Jesus. It was about finding the right words to describe what the apostles were already experiencing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Jeff, that's a lot of ground you just covered. Let's slow it down for a second and bring it back to the text itself.
SPEAKER_01You're right. It is a lot of ground, but it's important to have a clear view of that because it helps us to see why John 5 matters so much. The relationship here is real. Let me say that again. The relationship here between the Father and the Son is real. The Father loves the Son, the Father shows the Son what he is doing, the Father gives authority to the Son, the Son obeys the Father, the Son seeks the Father's will. Those aren't role changes, that's relationship.
SPEAKER_02So the strongest argument against the non-Trinitarian or the modelist view is the relationship itself.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I think so. The father and the son talk to each other, work together, honor each other, and act at the same time. That's hard to fit into a one person, two roles framework. Dr. Ron Johnson says it in a way I really appreciate. He says the New Testament writers aren't inventing a doctrine. They're describing Jesus the way they experienced him as God, yet distinct from the Father. That's the heart of it. The doctrine came later, but the reality is right here in the text.
SPEAKER_02So for our listeners, the takeaway is this John 5 isn't giving us a full doctrine of the Trinity, but it is giving us the building blocks.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Everything we need to see is right here in this passage. The Father and the Son are different persons, but they share the same identity as God. They carry out the same work and they receive the same honor. This is where the ideal of the Trinity begins.
SPEAKER_02And I know some folks listening might be wondering, does getting all this right affect someone's salvation?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question, and the answer is no. This isn't what makes someone right with God. Even C.S. Lewis says that. He pointed out that we're not brought into God's family because we can explain the Trinity. We come to belong to Christ by trusting in Him. Understanding grows over time, but our standing with God rests on Him, not on our ability to sort out every detail.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Jeff, before we wrap up, let's go through the four big questions once more so we're all clear on this. Jesus has actually answered all four of them right here in the story. Question number one, what does it mean for Jesus to share the Father's identity?
SPEAKER_01It means he does what the Father does, fully, faithfully, and together with him. The Son isn't acting on his own, he's sharing in the Father's own work.
SPEAKER_02Question number two, is he equal with God?
SPEAKER_01Yes, not as a separate God, but as the Son who shares the Father's work, the Father's will, and the Father's honor. That's what equality looks like inside a loving relationship.
SPEAKER_02Question number three, how does this fit with the Shema? The Lord is one.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't go against the Shema. It actually shows what it really means. The Lord is one includes the Father and the Son working together in perfect unity, in perfect oneness.
SPEAKER_02Question number four What does this teach us about the Trinity and Christology?
SPEAKER_01It shows us the basic pattern, the Early church later described. The Father and the Son are different, but they are completely united in who they are and what they do. One God with the Father and the Son working together. This is where the idea of the Trinity starts. Right here in this story.
SPEAKER_02Alright, Jeff. That helps a lot. Now, before we wrap up, let's pull the whole chapter together. Let's step back into the story and recap what we've seen so far.
SPEAKER_01Good idea. In John 5, we see Jesus healing a man on the Sabbath, and that sets everything in motion. The Jewish leaders challenge him, and instead of backing down, Jesus explains exactly who he is and why he has the authority to do what he's doing. He tells them that the Father is always working, and the Son works right alongside him, and he shows that he gives life. That's the heart of this chapter so far.
SPEAKER_02Next week, we're going to get into the rest of the conversation. Starting verse 24, where Jesus talks about hearing God's voice, crossing from death to life, the resurrection, and the final judgment. It's going to be a very important passage.
SPEAKER_01So join us next week as we walk through the rest of John 5 and see how Jesus brings this whole moment to its climax. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thanks for opening Scripture with us, and we will see you next time. Shalom. Grace and peace.
SPEAKER_00You've been listening to Engage the Scripture Podcast, where context reveals the meaning. The Spirit reveals truth, and together they illuminate God's Word. If you have questions or want to dive deeper into today's topic, visit engagethescripture.com. Click on the link. This podcast is for educational and devotional purposes only. The views expressed are those of the host and guest and do not constitute professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to study scripture and seek guidance from trusted spiritual leaders. Used under a royalty free license.