No 17 Plant and Care for Peace! With Mika Vanhanen and Neil Hawkes

Mika Vanhanen – Ambassador of Knowledge, Peace builder and Founder of Peace Circle® inspires Neil Hawkes during this heartfelt conversation.

Mika Vanhanen is a Finnish educator, peace builder and leader in human-centred transition work.  For over 30 years, he's worked across schools, municipalities, civil society, business and global networks to understand how real change happens — and why it so often fails. In 2000,Mika founded ENO – Environment Online, which grew into a global school network of 10,000 schools in 157 countries and helped mobilise the planting of more than 30 million trees.
 

Today, Mika continues his mission through Peace Circle®, a model that turns values into visible action by connecting nature, community and learning. This work has led to Peace Circle® parks, citywide partnerships and school-based practices in multiple countries, with a vision to reach 100 countries by 2030.
 

The Peace Circle® model led Mika to a wider principle he calls Circular Humanity:
when people move together in values, understanding and action, transitions become culture.

The Podcast ends with a beautiful song, Peace grows in you, which Mika has just released and can be downloaded from Spotify.

Music from #Uppbeat

https://uppbeat.io/t/bernie-rosa/dandelions-scatter

License code: 8AAYKQJMQXBGCKMZ

For more information about the transformational work of the IVET Foundation and its global Affiliates visit http://www.ivetfoundation.com 

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Well, hello everyone again. I'm so pleased to be with you today. My name's Neil Hawkes. I'm the founder of the International Values Education Trust, known as the Ivet Foundation. I've got to say today that I'm absolutely delighted that so many of you are listening to these podcasts. I'm getting so many really insightful remarks from so many people from uh all over the world. And I'm most grateful to hear from you. Apparently, you listen to them when you're driving along, or there was one person that said she listens to me in the bath, which I thought was really amusing. But uh anyway, wherever you listen to us, uh we're most grateful. Uh what we're aiming to do is bring some real positivity, people that are living their values and showing what can be done in the world. We're bringing that to you, and I know you're enjoying it. And today I have someone who I listened to the other day, and I thought, yes, he must be invited to speak on our podcast. Uh, this is Micah Van Hannen from Finland, and he's one of Ivet's esteemed affiliates, and uh I know you're in for a treat today. Micah, it's uh wonderful to see you and uh be with you today. How are you? Thank you, Neil.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I'm very happy to be here after a long day at school and after that many many duties, but I'm very thrilled and happy to be here and to talk with you and the same-minded people about values and how we can live them.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes, well, I'm fascinated that you have really just come out from school. So you look remarkably relaxed and well. So I'm sure your students are a great lot. Perhaps we'll find out a little bit about them. But uh, to start with, I'd like you just to uh explain to listeners uh who you are, where you live, and perhaps a little bit about your early childhood.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Okay. Okay, yes. I come from the eastern part of Finland, about 100 kilometers from the border of Finland and Russia. And I grew up in a farm. My father was a farmer, and they were actually after the Second World War, they had to leave their homes from Karelia, the lost part, and they moved here inland. And uh then, well, I have seen many, many other uh families also from the same region, and they really stick together. And as my father was a farmer, he was a very hard-working man, and my mother also very uh took care of us and uh also uh said that we should uh go to schools and to educate because she didn't have that opportunity when she was young. And well, all of my uh my sisters uh I have three sisters and all all of them they became teachers.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Wow. Can you give us a glimpse of early family life? What happened in your home? Anything particular?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Well, actually, you know, we live in a rural rural countryside. We have we had cows, we had about 15 cows. I milked them, I also helped help my students on the field with my with my dad. But actually, I was not very much into farm farming and to farm work, and I prefer to uh, for instance, to play piano and to go to ski cross-country. I also like that. So it was very very peaceful and very uh uh love was in the air, everybody, you know, people really cared about each other. So I was very lucky, even though it was not very easy, easy then, and uh people were not very uh wealthy other otherwise, you know. But but you know, we we get got along and I'm I'm very happy for my childhood and very grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yes, I believe uh music became very important to you in family life.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yes, yes. Actually, my my grandfather was also a musician. Uh he was also uh he he had a shop in the Lost Karelia when when and he played accordion and my mother sang. Well, my father was a very quiet person, but she he didn't sing so much, but he he could sing. And of course, my sisters and we we we got a piano that was very rare at that time, 19 early 1970s, to get a piano in a far far farmer's house. They were quite expensive, as as as you know, but we were very lucky to have that, and of course, we played a lot of piano and sang together.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

So there was this tremendous feeling of community, that's what I'm hearing you say. And uh, I'm sure that's why you have such a gorgeous smile on your face now, because of that, those early experiences that you had. What was it like going to school as a little boy yourself?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, actually, my uh it was about three kilometres from my home, uh uh the the our school, and uh normally we we walked there or with bicycles, and later we got a transportation, but it was very nice. Our school was very small. We had only 25 students. At my at my class, only four students, me and my twin sister and two others. So so very difficult that nowadays at schools. We don't have that, you know, all the schools in the area have they have disappeared because there are no people left.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Uh yes, tell us uh tell listeners about uh what's the area you like. Can you describe it? Because you're not far from the Arctic, are you?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, actually, actually, our our uh latitude is 62 and our longitude is 30. So it's it's about five degrees from the Arctic Circle. It's it's not not very near, it's not Lapland. It's uh uh we have a lot of forests, and very near to my my home, we have uh our national landscape that was inspired by famous composer like Jan Zipelius from Finland. Uh it's called Koli, and it's a very great place of inspiration, a very uh big hill. Well, in Finland it's quite flat, but we have a very nice view from the hill to to the lake and all those tiny islands in the lake. Yeah, beautiful in the different seasons. So I think this also, this area has affected me that I haven't moved from my home uh home region. I still live here and will live the rest of my life, even though I have been in I have visited many countries.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Oh, it's it sounds idyllic to me. Um but you've noticed changes, haven't you, in Finland regarding the climate and and other things. Could you talk to us about that?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yes, well, I we have concretely uh of uh you know experienced the climate change. For instance, this winter has been extremely cold, but suddenly in in March, nowadays uh at the normally we have now about 30 or 40 centimeters of snow, but uh from the beginning of March, no snow, all the snow melted. So it was it is very strange. And of course, this uh this extreme weather, uh cold and hot, they they they they come become more and more common. And well, I we have noticed that, and it's of course in Finland we don't suffer that much because uh our winters are very uh cold, and when it's not cold winter, you know, we have to use a lot of electricity and energy. And uh, but of course, you know, the climate change gets the most hard uh in near the equator and all those places who already are suffering from from many things. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Uh you you um you know I didn't introduce all the things that you do, you know. You you are now you know the founder of something called ENO, the environmental online. You you are known for planting and caring for peace, you know. Um 30 million trees. I know you haven't planted them all on your own, but uh you've inspired other people. So can you talk us through, you know, what what's sort of the motivation behind your meaning and purpose and and why are you doing what you do now? And what is it you do? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Well, the first the motivation it comes comes from uh it's quite naturally. I I feel that if I can uh do something for for people and the planet, I must do that. And I I have a you know, it's it's a kind of attitude for life, how to live, it's also to to help others, and you will get more more from the other people also. It's it and it's the gratitude. I think I have I have I as I said I had a lucky, lucky uh childhood, uh, and uh I'm I'm very lucky person. So I want to I want to share the uh you know the good things to other people and tree planting is very very simple but very important and very popular. And we when we we have this uh in environment online, we have this big network of schools and communities. We planted many many trees and people get more excited, and I want to raise uh the people, the ordinary schools and what the students and teachers, what they are doing. So the internet is a perfect place for that. So it's it's always to promote and to get people to feel uh that we are doing this together and that in a global community, and to of course to meet people and to to uh talk with them, it's very important. So after after Eno, uh what I'm doing now, I'm teaching, uh I have a preparatory class teaching Ukrainian small school children uh Finnish because you know from Ukraine there have been many, many many families who have because of the war, they have moved to Finland. And I have uh I have told them Finnish and how uh about Finnish culture, if they stay in Finland, they can move, but it has been very eye eyes-opening, you know, when when when see those kids and heard about their their um uh childhood and what they have experienced.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Could you give us uh could you tell us a little about could you give us a flavor of what the children are telling you about their childhood?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, actually, I don't I don't understand Russia. I have a I have a one aide in in my uh class who speaks Russian, but they have told about what they have been doing while while under the bombing, for instance, in well, for instance, one family they lived in their grandmother's uh uh you know in the shelter now downstairs, and they did they didn't go out for for for almost two months. And then I asked how did you feel there? And they said, Well, like children, that's well, it was quite okay. We had internet and we had we had some chickens that our grandmother, you know, they had to slaughter them. They had food to eat. So it was very, very concrete to hear hear about those kids and how they survived. And I'm I'm also feel grateful that I I can I can be with them in the classroom and to help them. Uh of course there's a lot of things that I don't know, but I'm happy that they are there and we feel we have a very good uh very good feeling between the teacher, with me and those kids in in the classroom. So I'm grateful also for that.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

How old are they?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Um they are from 7 to 11.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

7 to 11. Yeah. Wow. Now these planting of the trees, although that's wonderful in its own way, there's a reason behind the planting, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yes, there are many reasons. Actually, when we started in the early year 2000 or 2004, tree planting was not very popular, and and when we uh we started to plant trees for peace, uh they they they maybe people they were just looking, why why are you planting trees for peace? You know, we have peace in Finland, we have peace. Yes, I said, but peace is peace is not not only uh you know the absence of war. It means that we have to be be you know uh get along to people and to be friendly and so on. So of course, uh the one one very important uh reason also was climate change in and uh and uh to mitigate the climate change and to reduce the effect of climate change. So that's why we also plant trees and for biodiversity. I think they are there's maybe a thousand uh reasons to plant a tree.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

That's right. So when you're talking with schools, uh what do you what's the what are you telling them to do? Is it just go out and plant a tree, or do you have a routine or something you uh ask them to do?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Actually, it's it's not only the planting is one part. It's it's the easy easy part the concrete to see, but it it's not only the school. You know, our approach is the community to get people from outside the schools to support uh maybe some local people who know about tree planting more, and uh and to get the local community to be a part of the tree planting so that people can feel that this is a community, that we plant this together and we care for that afterwards because tree planting is only the first part. The most hardest part is to take care of the tree. Maybe not in Finland, but but in uh for instance in Africa or in some Asia and some other dry areas. We don't need to bother them so much, but there you need water, and you know the the lack of water is one thing also, it's not very easy.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Wow, that's incredible. Um, I remember that you that you were talking about too when I heard you before, football fields and how you you have this vision of perhaps professional footballers having a a circle of peace. Could you talk about circles of peace?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yes. Actually, actually, we we have this peace circle model that we we use, we it's a kind of ritual and also a shape for tree planting that we use, but but for the peace circle uh uh on the football field. Actually, next Monday, the second uh second Easter Day, we will launch uh a kind of a campaign where when we go to the football field just before the match, and we we make this kind of ritual when we shape you know the uh shape of a peace and peace symbol uh in the middle of the football field, and we have this certain uh and what we need for peace is that we need heart, we need head, and we need hands in balance, and that's the idea of that. So people can see all those symbols there, and when when the children and and young people and school school children they they go there, they can they fall form the place, and during the this uh ritual, there's also a music that we just actually today today published. It's a song called Peace Grows in You. It's about also about the same thing. And next Monday, here in Johansu, in my city, there will be a football match when they will start the season here in Finland, football season. The first uh and uh the the the first in the first match there will be uh uh young uh girl players and women players from my local village who will make this peace circle there. So it's a it's very in very uh I'm looking forward to see it how it really happens and all those music and the how people react. But the football uh foot football uh team, they were very interested about this. Because we also have some uh foreign players for in ja from Japan and from other countries also. They're not only Finns in this team.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

I can just picture listeners. You can picture the these this lovely event happening in in Finland. I wish I could zoom myself across uh to be a part of it, Micah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Hopefully, we'll get we will get some video shooting so you will see later on how it looked.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Listeners will be able to listen to this wonderful song Micah's talking about at the end of my session today. Uh, he's agreed that we should be able to play uh a minute or so of this wonderful song, which I think is inspirational. So, listeners, you've got a real treat at the end today. Um, can I take you back? Because uh people won't be able to see on the podcast, but you're wearing a sweatshirt with uh a lovely motif, which is the peace symbol with heart, hands, and and and there they are, and yes, the heart, the hands, and the action, as it were. Can you talk a little bit about what those three actually mean and how they relate to each other? Why yeah, unpick that a bit for us.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Normally, we when we speak uh about emotions, we they are separate, and then we talk about hands, uh, hand hands and head like that like all separate. But you know, people are uh human beings is one whole thing. But when it comes to values, you must start from the heart, from your heart, from your values. And when you have the values, uh you you will uh go from there, you will go to your head, you will think what good you can do, how you can live, and then it goes to your hands. And from hands, when when you uh are motivated to do, you see the result, what you are doing, then you will get more motivation, you will it will go back to the heart, and it's a cycle, it's a cycle that that goes on, that should go on, and every this every heart, head and hands, they should be in balance. If you don't have your heart in balance, you are very wise and you do this, but you don't have your values, you know it's not good for for the planet or the people around you. And it's a very simple, it's very easy to for kids to to explain this and they understand it very very easily. Yes, I because maybe I'm also so simple, simple man, so I I need to have some simple and concrete deeds.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I think many things we will agree about, Micah, but uh a friend of mine called Bridget Knight once sowed a seed in my mind, and she said Neo things should be simple yet profound. And I think, Micah, what your symbol does is it's it's simple at one level, but it's really deep and profound at another. Um let me take you to your current classroom. You know, you talked about values, you know. Um are there some interesting simple ways, yet profound ways, of teaching children to live their values?

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Okay, yeah, I think the most important is that when we talk about values, we have to connect them to real deeds, what you are doing, and not only what you are intending to do, but you have but but you what you have done. And we uh uh in my classroom we have this uh circle, uh peace circle in in the in the on the wall, and then we have this hearthead and hands, uh, and during the week we uh we talk with with the children or in the end of the week, what we have been doing this week. And then they say what we have been doing, then we put those deeds, sentences to those to those heart and head or hands what what we have been doing. So it's it's always they can see the concrete deeds what they are doing. And after that it's it it's a kind of reflection and mirror. It's not to to say that we should do this or that. But just just to understand uh how our uh what we are doing are connected to our values or our head or hands and uh what we can learn from them. And in the end of the month we we evaluate how was our month it's a very short it's five or ten minutes uh what we we did well where there's a some uh more space that we can for instance in in hands or heart or head we we we could be better it's just uh it's very simple but it's also nice to see from the kids because they they are they are uh understand that they are appreciating what they are they have been doing so see it's also the self self you know unconscious and and it's also good for the group of students and all of the classroom that we are doing this together it's not only me or you but it's all the people who are in the class and you you know in the in the circle it's surrounded by every people you know we we have the uh uh faces of every people around this uh you know forming this circle we call this a circle of guardians the circle of guardians yes we're and in the middle of the circle is a tree seedling so it's just we we are doing this uh to to you know and we are trying to grow also as a human human beings can I ask you uh many educators will be listening to you as well as folk from other walks of life uh and parents um I uh what uh what effects do you see on the children because you do this sort of work is there any con anything concrete you say well because I do this the children do our or whatever you know what impact are you having actually they they are waiting for the the moment where when we we want to we are discussing what we have been doing and and some of them they they are eager they are thinking maybe they can do now this something good during the week. I I can see actually they have been talking about that they have been asking what we could do now and so it's a uh it's a I I can see it's also motivating for kids to see some concrete what they have been doing and also appreciate what they are doing for good things what they do. Learn to learn or to you know to get rubbish from from or clean the class classroom or or outside or help people other people very simple but very important it's not because people often forget what they are doing.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

If you put them like there on the wall you can see hmm yes we were doing that also this week and it's it's good for uh for the motivation I'm hoping that listeners who are in business or in work environments they could have this on their wall as well to see what everybody's doing.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Actually it's it's it's very universal.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

We also have we also we we don't still have but we also I have planned also the same kind of circle for the whole school when the circle of guardians is the classrooms teachers nurses parents council who are all everybody you know surrounding surrounding our school or surround or who are doing the work for for the kids and for our community and they can see also the the younger students can see their classes and maybe they don't even know that we have those those people in the school if the school is big and also for the visitor can see what they have been doing some concrete teach what they are doing not not just fancy or very nice words that we do we aim to do this we aim to do that but just very plain and simple what what we have done I shall carry that forward in my talk so I'm going to quote you on that it's absolutely marvelous uh Micah in in uh the UK and other countries uh finland is held up as a uh a superstar of the educational world we're always being told that you do things so well uh is there any other besides what you've told us can you give us a flavor of Finnish education which produces you know apparently uh holistically educated um children who are both academically sound but also spiritually and morally and socially aware uh can you give us one or two things that you're doing as educators in Finland well actually I I think that that the people appreciate teachers that that that's their status is still even though it's not so high that it used to be but but you know it's it's a the profession of teacher is very demanding at the moment it's it has been more and more demanding because of the other thing things uh around the real teaching with the kids but in finland I think uh of course we have the teacher education is very very high high level uh in the university and very few uh you know uh uh teachers who have not are not qualified so it's very high the percent for instance if we have uh we have some sub some uh short period that we need a teacher for some school there could be twenty or thirty people who who have who applies this maybe only two or three months so it's it's very very competitive also I think that's also I I don't know if I don't have any answer to your question.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

But may maybe maybe that we we take that teaching we we are we are serious.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

We use our heart a lot I was going to say I don't want to put words in your mouth but I wondered if it's something to do with as as you're demonstrating today uh I've been thinking your relationships with the the students must be phenomenally good is it that and if you have good relationships you then have influence and you've won the hearts of people is that a part of the secret or have I just made that up yes I I think that that's you know if if you you must get that to close to them also to real to rely on them and they will rely on you so it's it's a matter of trust also and and very much uh uh uh you know uh very uh uh not authorit authoritic you know system but but very much on the same level because we both are learners uh I I can see this this level you know of course in different uh different things but I learn everything every every day new things from my students and of course from teaching so I you are you are never ready how do you win respect with the children that's often something that's asked me how do you Okay well I I think you have to be fair you have to be equal for everybody you have to appreciate what they are saying. Yeah yeah it it goes back to it it's like you you know you know in Finland you have this saying that the the uh forest will uh uh echo what you are saying to them you know uh it it means that you you you have to be you have to uh face them very uh very open-minded and and uh but of course you know at the same time you have to be uh strict in some things you know because uh of course everybody if you don't have an order for instance in your room it will be a mess so so you have to balance between these things so it's it's not always easy of course uh people people uh my students also they like music and I have a piano in my class so sometimes if uh some things don't go well maybe we we will sing sing a song for instance and then we go along as well so it's it's it's just uh to get the right things it it it it when when you are more and more experienced you you will you will find which works and which does not work what's what's Michael what's your vision for the future have you got a vision because we're going through some very difficult times internationally and uh I know a lot of people I speak to get quite down and depressed about it and uh and how can we create some hope for people what's your vision for the future a big question but actually that that's uh what what is my goal in my teaching and uh also in my life is that there's all always hope and you must find people to to get them uh involved in good things and when you're doing sharing the good things it it works in both ways you will get people uh people involved and people will be excited and you will empower people when you give them they will give you back and it it's like this cycle you you get the motivation from there I know that at the moment it's a very difficult uh situation and it it it doesn't look very good in the forthcoming years but if we only are cynical and we we we we are we are we we are quiet we don't do anything you know that that that's the wor the worst scenario so we have to we have to start from our own community and for instance this uh peace circle or this on the football field it's just to wake up people so because the power is in pe in the people and many people you know they they they have their values are very very right but they are quiet they don't they don't find uh ways how to express them or do something so through deeds and through different uh things uh when you find that you are meaningful and and those uh deeds are meaningful you will get you will get more better and better feeling and when you're doing this together then then you can really make a change even though it's a small thing but life is a long long journey but you must yeah you must believe in people that that's what I do still even though it's difficult. That's that's wonderful that's uh absolutely incredible uh Micah how can people find out about your work I think you've got some websites and things where can they go to to find out more about you yeah uh I have this my uh own website is mikavanhanen.com and then we have this peace circle dot world where it's the small above this peace circle that we have this peace circle model that that I I established a couple of years ago and uh it's it's if if you google there you you you try Mika vanhan I'm quite sure that you will find me. Oh yes and I've looked at that too and it's absolutely inspiring. Um you you're so you come across in such a modest way and I think listeners if they look at at your profile will say wow this guy from his simple little school in Finland has is having an such an impact on so many people's lives and as you say it's the simple things that actually inspire us to to make the change we want to see in others and uh oh I wish I could duplicate you a million times I think I'm not sure if it would be a good idea. Yeah but what you're saying about waking people up so we can all do something ourselves no matter how small we we can empower ourselves can't we?

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yes and when you do together you know the it you you will it will multiply the effect it's not only yourself but get together to same minded people and you you'll find more and more people around you and do doing good things and you know the according your values you must not do values to action I think that that that's the that's the motto.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Oh I I just uh so so uh uh endorse what you've just said that there it's it's uh yeah it's courageous advocacy I would say it's that's what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Well we only have one life you know I'm I'm also thinking that I will I will live for maybe maybe you know I don't know how long I will be but after after I will you know uh I go go away uh I will leave some I will leave something something uh that will grow I know yeah and that's what the people should always think when when they think about their future and uh about their career and and things you know they are all things just things but to be with people to to also to learn from people and do do good things that's the best you can do.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

One people can do a lot before we close the session is there anything that you would like to tell listeners that you haven't said about your work or your life or your country anything that you would like to share as a conclusion well actually I I I would like to say to people that uh don't don't uh be shy to open what you are really showing your showing your values.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

I think that's the most important to to people to raise and to to defend their values I think that's the most important today's in today's world.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Thank you very much indeed um as I said during our our chat um uh your wonderful song uh to tell us a little bit more about the song because did you write the song? Yes I I wro I wrote it uh and uh uh yes I composed the song and actually uh my daughter sings also in the song she she uh worked also with me 15 years ago when we had an international conference and she also was s uh singing another song that I I composed then so I have been uh I have been doing co-version with her for 15 years maybe and and uh in the song there's also another uh young young talented uh singer who will actually go to London to study m study singing uh next fall she's very very uh he's very uh talented and then there are some musicians and I actually they are also I I'm a father and I have my my uh my daughter there and there are two other fathers and their sons are also in this in this orchestra so it's very very nice classical instruments and uh we also want to share the uh feeling that we feel that we must do things and as as in the lyrics said that peace spreads in what you say and do so it's it's to do to do something not just uh just uh hoping that hope hopefully peace will come it won't come it will grow in you and you can spread it to other people that's our message how can people download or get a copy of of the song because I'm sure some people will say oh I'd like a copy of that how can they do that yeah actually it's in in the YouTube and in Spotify in all the all the plat musical platforms uh the song is called Peace Grows in you and our uh the name of our band is North Karelian Voices oh wow it's our province is North Karelia Micah thank you so much uh you've been absolutely inspirational for me and I know the listeners and uh um it's been a joy to to listen to you and to feel your your positive energy you know wafting across the world uh thank you as I said same to you same to you if if if you wouldn't be like that you know it's so easy to speak to you because I can see yeah I can see your heart here. Oh thank you so much thank you so much um listeners thank you for joining Micah and myself today um we'll look forward to uh being with you on the next podcast and do tell your friends about these amaz amazing people that uh are in noble conversations with me and tell them that our noble conversations are on all the major platforms now and being listened to by lots and lots of people so thank you very much for today uh thank you Micah you take our our love to everyone in Finland uh it's absolutely amazing thank you very much indeed thank you