Colour Confessions: What Your Stylist Wish You Knew

In this episode we're diving into the colourful side of salon life: blondes, brunettes, coppers, vivids, grey blending, colour corrections, and the truth about "low maintenance" hair.

We're talking about why your starting canvas matters, why inspo pics are a guide, NOT a guarantee, and what clients need to understand before making big colour changes. From blonde turning yellow, to vivid colours fading fast, to going dark after blonde, this episode breaks down the real life maintenance, expectations, and consultation conversations behind hair colour.

We end things off with Colour Consultation Court, where we judge fictional client requests and decide whether they're realistic, possible with a plan, or a hard no.

Transcript

unknown 0:06

Welcome back everyone.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Welcome to Untangle It All with Ella, Emily, and Sam.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

The podcast where the salon tea is hot. The clients are iconic.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

And nothing is off limits. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Hi, hello.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

So at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

In the same little voice.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

I apologize in advance. Bailey, my dog, is in the room with us. There's no one home to watch her, so if you hear her licking, just know it's annoying us too.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

And it'd be better than if Rosie was around because Rosie likes to just bark out. At least if Bailey barks, it's just like a little one and not very loud. Rosie will bust your eardrum if we were at my house.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yes, with our little houndy bark.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

So this is our next episode, and not with Kaylee.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Still. We know everybody loved Kaylee, but we will get there next week. We're making it happen, right? Yes. Are either of you going away next weekend? No.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

No, we just had too much fun last weekend. Yeah. Episode did not get recorded.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Yeah, did, didn't we? Oh no, we didn't. We were supposed to. Yes. But we had a really fun staff party instead. Yes, that was a lot of fun. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

We had a good night.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah. Yeah. We highly recommend, if you can. I understand it's very controversial whether you should party with your coworkers or not, but you know what? I think if you can, you should. Why not be friends?

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Our work is so like, I don't know, our day-to-day is so much better because we really are like sisters and close.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah, I know it's controversial where it's like don't shit where you eat, but I prefer my workplaces to be close. I've worked both where it's just like formality and you're not like super friendly friendly, and then this and this is way better. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, I agree. It's nice to have like a tight knit with your coworkers. None of the vibe is good. Mm-hmm. You know, if you have yeah, like if you have that relationship with your friends and co-workers, and you know, yeah, absolutely. I agree. I like that. Me too. It's nice having that feeling when you can go into your workplace and it's like doesn't feel like work, but it is work. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

And you get each other, and especially whenever you know someone might be down or having a bad day, like you don't take it so personal then because you know like what they're going through, and that's just how they are. Exactly. I like it. Was it gel?

unknown 2:36

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Oh, do they put the UV light on? Ella got a pedicure and she didn't get gel, and she wonders why it's chipped already.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

I do hate that though. It sucks when you pay that much money and then chips. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Well, to be fair, I didn't care if I got my toes painted or not. I just needed my feet done. Like my heels are really cracked.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

That's fair. It feels so good when they do them.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yes. Especially our heels, because we stand for long periods of time.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

What are we gonna talk about today?

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Well, we are gonna talk about color specific. Oh, I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

We've talked lots about color before, but yeah, this is real specific. We're getting a deep dive.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yes, we're diving right in on color.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Yep. Like we said in our one of our most recent episodes about how important communication is. Very all this color comes to communication, and we just really want to make it a little bit more understandable for everybody. So maybe the appointments are more smooth, and it's not because clients are wrong or stylists are wrong. This is for both sides, whether you're a stylist or a client listening. This applies.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Absolutely. I say we just jump right into the most controversial, controversial and blonde maintenance and what nobody tells you.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Mm-hmm. Because blonde, there's a lot to it.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

It is the m it's so much upkeep.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah. A lot. Very and I mean so are other colors. There's tons of colors that are upkeep, but with blonde, there's just a lot that goes into it. And like essentially when you go blonde, you're stripping your color out to change the color and do more. Like that's that in itself is a very large deal.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

And especially if you're naturally a darker color and your hair grows quick, like you're in there every six to eight weeks having to pay that much money again, or else it's just some people hate that. They hate that look.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

What do you think clients like underestimate about being blonde from your guests?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, and like with the money, get the maintenance.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

Like I have black, like my hair's dark brown. And if I was gonna go full platinum card, whatever, I'm expecting to pay a whole bunch of money. I think people expect that. But then when in six weeks they're like, wait, why is my dart coming back? Like I just paid all this money. You have to remember, you're not naturally blonde, so we can only lift so much we the hair that's gonna regrow isn't gonna magically grow back blonde.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah. And it really depends on how fast your hair grows as well. Like, you know, some people some people's hair may grow a little slower than others, where some people grows really fast. So that also depends.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yep. And it depends if at your appointment you got highlights right to your root or you got a lived-in look. And I know myself personally, I always immediately tell clients the difference. And right now I can use my hair as an example because my money pieces went right to the root, and I have that regrowth where it's just that sharp line. So I show people this is what your hair will look like here if you go right to the root, but then if you go back here, the grow out's much softer and nicer because I did like the root melt back there. And it's not that it looks bad, it's just some people like that's what they notice with the regrowth, I think, is they see that sharp contrast where it's just the line, yeah, which is totally normal. And like we said, it's not that it looks bad, but some people don't like that. Yeah, everyone's preferences are different.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

And I love a root smudge after. I think Lived In just looks not that it looks nicer, but you know it's going to grow out better and it's gonna continue to look good for longer. Yeah, but then I also understand for someone who's like paying to be icy blonde, yeah, they don't want their dark roots showing, and that's what they're getting that for. But I just think even if you give that half inch or quarter inch, it's gonna grow out so much nicer. But I'm gonna do what you're gonna ask me to do and what you're paying for.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah, exactly. Like we can give all the options and then they can choose choose what they want.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Yeah. I think people underestimate the end results.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Like I really think they underestimate how not that it's on well, sometimes it's very unpredictable. If you got previous color on your hair, it's a hundred percent unpredictable what you're gonna look like. And I've had many clients actually, here's a good example. I had a client last weekend, she had blue splat in her hair.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

For anyone who doesn't know, splat is notorious and for a general rule, does not come out of your hair. No, it's fabric dye. There's nothing you can do, you're stuck with that till it grows out. Well, my client last week had blue splat, and what happened? The blue came out. Yeah, I had warned her and her mom, um, and it was underneath her hair, so it could be hidden by the top layer, but I'm like, you're gonna have blue or green in your hair. I'm so sorry. It did not. But her red, but her pink came out red. Whereas normally is black. Yeah, and it was just a L'Oreal, and normally we'd be like, okay, the pink will probably lift out nicer. Yeah. No, her pink turned to red. So it's like your hair really truly can be unpredictable, and some days it blesses you. I've had we have a coworker whose hair was black and she's now platinum blonde. Yeah, that's not normal. But we don't know that.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Look at us like we have two heads when we ask what is your hair history the last five years. Like y'all, if you even it's professionally colored, let's say you got a permanent color on it three years ago, that's still on your hair, and now you're trying to go blonde, you still need to know because that's going to affect how your hair lifts.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

I had a client who I'm trying to make as icy as possible because she was super brassy, because she just wasn't getting lifted enough. But her hair is stubborn and it took a while to lift. So you just have to learn those patience.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Yeah, exactly. And as long like we do our best to explain that to people, and most times people are very understanding, but you also get a lot of people that are very shocked because I think they underestimate what goes into the blonde service for sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

And like one of the biggest ones too would be like pricing.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Because it is such a like Yeah. I somebody like myself who has very thick coarse hair, or Sam who has super long hair and kind of thick, versus Ella who has short hair finer. Ella could go get eight foils, and I can get eight foils, and we're gonna have two different looks and two different prices. Yeah. Because it's the product used, and yes, I agree, people underestimate the price big time.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

And I find a lot recently people are like, Why are your prices so high for color? Because they think because we're walking, we should be cheaper. Yeah. But guys, we still have to buy that color, we're still putting in our time. It's still product used.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Yeah, 100%. Um, I did a client recently and they paid $500 for their hair. Yeah, and but they also uh knew that coming in, they understood it. I told them you are starting minimum $300 and you're gonna go up from there depending how much product. Yeah, they knew every time I was mixing that bowl that price is going up, but they prepared for it and they they were totally okay. And yeah, that's that's not feasible for everybody, and I'm not saying, oh, you you're gonna pay $500. It's just you need to know and go get a really good estimate. Actually, our manager told me today there's a stylist in our city, and for gray blending, they start at $1,000.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Excuse me?

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Oh wow, I won't say the name out loud, but they are very like expertised in it, and they this is kind of like their specialty. But you are a gray blending client, you're starting at $1,000.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

It's a lot of time you've got to be. You gotta script your colors, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

You have to get it as light as you can, then you gotta blend it, and it's like you're there all day, and you're also paying for this person's experience in the end because they have been stylists for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Yeah, and going back to what you said, 500, 600, whatever is very rare in our salon, but it was a full-on color correction.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Yeah, and they had a lot of hair.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

The fact that you're now having like, yes, when we lighten your hair, we're lightening it to bubble on in it, but when you have to strip the color first that's already in there, then lighten, you're getting a whole different service.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, and I mean, really, if you break that down, like it all honestly depends on how long you're gonna go in between colors. Say if she only got her hair done twice a year, maybe, or once a year, if you break that cost down into that full year, really it's not that much considering.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

You know what I mean? That's true. So if you look at it that way also, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

But in saying that, the people going once or twice a year, especially if they have dark hair, yeah, they are gonna pay more because that turns into a color correction when you come in here with four, five, six inches of dark roof, yeah with grown-out, brassier blonde on the bottom. Yeah, I think I really just think a lot of people underestimate what highlights are. Highlights are not a like it's not across the board. It's such a personal thing, and no two people are gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

No, like we there's so many different approaches. Like I could do one, Ella could do something totally different, and then Emily may take that and do it totally different as well. Like, you know, you're always gonna get different outcomes and how long it may take or what approach you're gonna go. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Placement of it.

SPEAKER_04 12:19

Yeah, I don't think any of us spoil the same.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

No, hundred per I don't think anyone in the shop we don't and it's not because anyone's wrong, it's because every it's art. Yeah, that's right. Hair is art, color is art. And as an artist, it's up to you how you go about it, and generally you're gonna get a very similar outcome. Yep, but as an artist, you're always gonna have your own little flair on things. So yeah. Yeah. That's definitely something I think people underestimate. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

How often do you think like um someone who comes in regularly for blonde maintenance should get a toner and their treatments and trims and stuff like that? Someone who's very regular with it, like doesn't like their roots.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Doesn't like the like every six to eight weeks, depending how fast their hair goes.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Yeah, it just depends. Could be like four to six or six to eight usually.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

And it also would depend on how dark their hair is in contrast to the blonde.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Somebody who's naturally blonde may go longer than someone like me.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

Like my client who keeps getting highlights, but I really don't think they need highlights because their hair is so light anyway. Like I see her like every 12 weeks because her hair is so light.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah. I um also think as for toner, like, because especially at my old salon, I found I did it a lot more because I was doing a lot more blondes. I'd have people come in in between for toner top up.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

And like someone like myself, if you could see my hair now, I've got it lightened, but there's some pieces that are coming out brassy, but that's because I went from a dark colored base to light, so that brass comes out a lot easier. Yeah. Once I get my hair lightened another round, I'm probably gonna find I don't need a toner in between my services like I do now. So, and that's something that us as stylists really need to make sure we educate our clients on as part of our consultation. Okay, here's a realistic upkeep for you.

SPEAKER_04 14:17

And trims, like you could come every six weeks for a trim. Your hair's not gonna hurt from it, you only benefit from it.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah, and you can go longer too. It just depends, it's totally depends on your hair. But when you're doing blonde services, I really will always stand by you need to be getting trims regularly.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Especially if you you end up using heat on your hair too. Yeah, if you're a rare unicorn whose hair is beautiful all the time and you just have to wash it and go, maybe you don't need to have as much, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

I will not do a set of highlights if they won't let me take even at least a quarter inch off because those ends just won't fried.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yeah, they do, they are they look so much better if you let us just freshen them up.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

Even if I'm taking a quarter of an inch, I'm taking it.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah, it's got I call that the no haircut, haircut. Yeah, it's part of your blonde tax. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes a difference. And if you let them feel the before and after difference and they're like, oh yeah, wow, see? Like exactly.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

You can feel it like hey, yes, you can feel it so nice.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

How often would you say for treatments, such as like, because to me, this is another non-negotiable. Now, not everyone might agree, but if I'm highlighting someone, I expect you to get a hair mask.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

I would really appreciate it if you got a hair mask because it's just gonna make your hair look a lot better, and your next service will probably be better because your hair is moisturized. You bleach bleach your hair, you're taking out moisture.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

A lot of my clients who I do highlights on have hair masks. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'd say for that maintenance, you're looking at once a week doing a hair mask at home, which nowadays the hair masks you don't even have to leave your shower. Yeah. Back when I was growing up, the hair mask you put on for like 20 minutes, sometimes under heat. Yeah. Now it's three to five minutes. Yeah. I just mine once a week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

It makes it feel better.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

It does. It's really good for it. Yeah, it's nice and quick. So, you know.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

But I'll never like push anything on anyone, but if I'm gonna push a product, it's gonna be a hair mask, especially if you're getting refinements done.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yep. You wanna keep that moisture in, and even I will definitely push like heat protector and make sure if they really need it, like K18 or Olaplex or even the Wella 90 seconds. Yes. Yep. Which I like that one because it's one step. Yeah. It's no-brainer. You spray it in your hair, leave it for 90 seconds, style as usual, boom done.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Okay, so speaking of these treatments, because they help these things, what makes blonde hair feel dry and dull and fragile and brassy over time?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Well, the bleach itself makes it and heat and heat 100% heat and bleach.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Even one if I was if I do my hair even once without a heat protector, I can see and feel it. Yeah, I can tell. Like my hair's dry, it's more like crispy feeling. It feels like hay. Yeah, and then you start seeing those white dots. I agree. Yeah, so the bleach goes and makes it feel that way, but you can make it better if you use these maintenance things. Same as even at yellow, turning yellow. You're stripping your tongue, or like Sam said, if you're putting heat on your hair, hard water, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Anything, medication, yeah, your heat. Like, I know I have a couple of girls, and for the longest time, God was like, I don't understand what they're doing to their hair, but you could see where in spots it was like turning like really brassy and like dark yellow. And I'm like, are you using um heat protector on your hair? And they're like, Yeah, like sometimes like hey, like you need to be doing it all the time, and also like turn your heat settings down because you're frying your hair, but it's also turning your hair that dingy, dark, gross color. Like, if your um flat irons or curly irons aren't clean either, yeah, yeah, that will also make a big difference.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

The buildup of gunk, which if you're using a heat protector, you should have gunk. It's gonna happen. Like because your hair's steaming off that and like when you see steam coming off your hair or like the smoke, that's your heat protector as long as you're using one. That's a good thing. That means your heat protector's working.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, and people get nervous and they're like, oh my god, it's just the moisture and the heat protector.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

It's I have gotten in the habit of telling every single one of my clients if you see smoke, don't panic at the heat protecting.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah, you're just burning that. We're just frying that off instead of your hair. Instead of your hair, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

So, like, again, even hard water, yeah, that's why some of these treatments we're not pushing on you to make more money. Yeah. We like where we are, we get a little bit of commission, but we're paying hourly. Yeah. So what you're paying isn't going an hourly. Exactly. We're trying to give you the best outcome for what you're paying for, to keep it up longer.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, we're trying to keep your health the healthy the healthier hair better instead of you frying your hair off.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yeah, like you know, as Ella just said, I don't I think it's okay that we say it. We literally get 5% commission on our products. I know what it is, yeah. Yeah, like we are not pushing this because we're like, give me a paycheck. We truly care about your hair. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

And we believe in the products as well.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

We do. We stand behind our products, we really like it, we use them ourselves. Like, even just recently, our manager put in a big shampoo order, and I'm pretty sure every one of us in the salon put in orders for these leaders of our shampoos and conditioners because we really do believe in them.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who didn't because I literally just bought the leaders. Like, yeah, we should put that in.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Actually, they just I'm very excited, I haven't used it yet, but they actually revamped the mega sleek line. We saw and it smells like the Sol de Janeiro.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah, it smells so good.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

The OG, the caramel and pistachios. Oh, it smells so good. It really does. Can't wait to use it.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

If my clients ask me, like, oh, between this product and this product, which one do you like better? I'm not gonna lie to them. No, neither. That's gonna keep your hair longer. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

No, I'm not in it to make money, I'm in it to benefit your exactly for your benefit, not mine.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

And I think a lot of salons are the same. We're not stylists aren't making money off products, and shops aren't making that much money off product. Like, no, we're a place to give you the tools and teach you about the tools, whether you take them or not, is up to you. But I will say this quick story. We have a coworker who has lots of fashion colors in her hair. She loves the purple, especially. She came into work the other day, and I was like, Oh my god, your hair, you colored it, it looked blue. Sh no, she used Dove color care once. She wasn't home, she was at a friend's house, that was all they had. She thought one time is okay, it stripped her color. Yeah. Like it just that's just the ingredients in these different things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

And that was like, um, I actually had my friend's daughter, she had stopped in the other day to pick up um something from me, and we were going over some products, and she's like, Yeah, like my when I got my hair tone last time, like it just keeps washing out and fading out. And I'm like, okay, but like, are you using good product on it? Because like, you know, I help her out and I get her some stuff, and she's like, Well, the last time I didn't, and I'm like, You're literally just stripping out your color, right? She's like, I know, and I'm like, I know you know, but you gotta do it. Yeah, if you're putting if you're 14 out of

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Couple hundred dollars for your hair.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

You're washing it down the drain.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Just like buy a good shampoo and a conditioner and mask. So I guess we can all agree then the next question is what you wish every blonde client would do at home. For me, I would say just take care of it. You too. With your shampoo, conditioner, and mask.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah. Like if you're gonna get your hair colored, we want you to use color treated products that will help keep your color in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

And I know it's sticker shock. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our leaders are like 30, 35 bucks, are they?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

And I know that's sticker shock to get a leader and have like if you get your shampoo and conditioner and a mask, I know it's crazy to say, oh my god, I'm spending over a hundred bucks on these three products, but these products are gonna last you so long because they're so concentrated. Yeah, like you don't need a lot of it either.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Matrix, all of their masks come in a tub and they are filled to the brim.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yeah, like you know, some some of them aren't filled right at the top. Like these are actually pretty decent.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

I have mine in there that I've had since hair school. Yeah, and I've barely made a dent and I use it once a week. Which is nice. You only need a toomie size.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yeah, you don't need a loss. No, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

But they last you. Yeah, yeah. And if you know how to use product correctly. Yes. Like you don't need six, seven pumps of shampoo.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

No, our manager at home to help her girls know how much to use, she puts an elastic around the pump so that they can't fully pump it all the way. They can only like half pump it. Yeah. Like, yeah, you might put half, especially your first wash where it doesn't suds a lot. You might use maybe a full pump.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

But like you're not using as much same as the conditioner and the masks, they're gonna last you a long time. Yeah. And you're not stripping your color right off. So it's worth the investment.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

I've been using the Food for Soft by Matrix. And I got the like shampoo conditioner, the small bottles when they were on sale, and then I bought liters. And I've just been filling out my little ones, and I still have those liters that I bought. Yeah, I'm the same. I'll use like one full, like these ones I squeeze. I'll do one full squeeze. Yeah. Do a nice get it all subsy, and then I'll just use maybe half a squeeze to the easy.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Yeah, the next one you don't need as much.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah, and do now. This might be a controversial um question, but like most people don't know this. Are we doing one shampoo in the shower or are we doing two shampoos? We should be doing two.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Two. Yes. Yeah. I taught my kids that too. Do two shampoos.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

First shampoo is getting all of the dirtiness and stuff out of your hair. The second shampoo is cleaning that all away.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Yeah, really cleansing the scalp.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yeah, so it's like getting all the pollution and the dand it's true though. It's true. It is true. It's true. All the pollution outside. But if you do your homework on that, all the pollution buildup on your hair, the dander, dry scalp, all that oil buildup. Yeah. That's your first shampoo.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

You're not actually washing your hair. So you want to get in there and you're just breaking that all up. And then the second time you're actually getting rid of it.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

And that can dull your color too. Talking about blondes, your heart, like Ella said, your hard water, your pollution, that can dull it. Another thing that can dull it is purple shampoo.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yes. Overuse big time.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Blue shampoo. Anything that has like four brassiness over to like purple shampoo for blondes. If you overuse that, you can do the reverse effect.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Exactly, and make it right dry because they are drying on your hair. Very drying.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

So we actually learned something new recently. Or I have actually. I mean, I don't know, but it's better to use the like blue and the purple conditioner. Yes, I heard that too. It's not as drying on your hair. So you're still getting that effects from like the brass and the yellow. From the blue and the purple shampoo or conditioner, sorry. And then it's you're also conditioning your hair at the same time. So it's not as drying.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

I've heard people say that the conditioner works better anyway. Like it's it and maybe it has to do with it not drying it out. Yeah. That it's making it look better.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Yeah, and you actually don't even technically need shampoo on your ends. I mean, I do sometimes just because where I wear hairspray and some other products in my hair, I will a little bit, but nothing crazy.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

You know.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Just the main thing is you need to have good products and really learn how to use them. Ask for your hairstylist. We are be more than happy to help.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

100%.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

And this is gonna go into like even those bright colors, like the violets, the cherry colas, the cowboy coppers, and the expensive brunette colors.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Those are very popular right now.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Very actually, Emily just did a nice violet red or red violet yesterday afternoon. How did it turn out? Because I didn't actually see it. Really good. I left when you were just washing it out.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Really nice. It's so pretty. She comes in. I sh this is her fourth time getting the she did cowboy copper the first time last summer. But she didn't really like the fade out. So now she does this one, and I it's like the burgundy purple.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

But and she loves it, and she doesn't mind the grow out or the fading of it, but it does fade to red. Yeah. Because I use a VR on her, so a violet red.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I love the violet reds. Me too. They're so pretty.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

And they are really popular right now. Yeah. I think because people that want to be dark, they really like having a like a hue to the darkness. That's nice undertone.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

But that nice undertone. Yes. The richness.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Same as what you said with expensive brunette. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

I don't want to just be black.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yes, you want to be blue-black.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

But who are these shades best suited for? And who might struggle with them?

SPEAKER_03 28:08

I someone with really pale skin would struggle with these, I think. I think they need to go darker. Someone with really pale skin, like not too dark to go black, but I don't know that like pale skin would look good with cowboy copper. Yeah. They might look good with the cherry cola, I think. Yeah. Blonde. I don't know. Too dark's gonna wash them out though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

I think, like, say if you're someone who's very like light skinned and you're just uh more pale than other people. At cowboy copper, it's like it's orangey, but like a pretty orange, and if you're already pale, I just feel like it's just not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, but I mean it just depends. Like I have seen some girls who are pretty pale, but they also have probably fake tan on. Yeah, but and that's okay too. It's whatever you like, you know, tweet your own.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

100%. I think that these colors also aren't made for people who want a lot of upkeep because cowboy copper, cherry cola red, rinse and out.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

I was the violet red, like I was like a three VR, and then they discontinued it.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I know.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

So then I got mad and I was like, okay, well, I had to change my color. I was at for pro about five years, actually. Every time I'd go like down south, I'd have to bring my own towel with me.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Because it'd be yes, people it just runs.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

So I literally would always like hotel or away on a trip. I'd always have to make sure I had an old towel so I didn't ruin hotel towels.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

I had the two their color.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

Yeah, you think blonde is the upkeep? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah, and like the red, violet, because they're so pretty. I know.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

I also had eras of red and violet, and the other thing is I always had to have a towel on my pillow. Yeah, me too. Because if you sweat in your sleep at all, even if you're not that sweaty, like it leaks, it runs through and stains.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

And I am notorious for going to bed with wet hair.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Sorry, I'm a bad girl.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

And if you don't want to use cool water, I also don't think they're for you because even though even though the colors we're talking about, like that nice, expensive, rich brunette, cherry cola, and cowboy copper or whatever, even though those aren't technically fashion colors, they still fade quick, and we would recommend using cool water.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Even to close your cue. Yeah, they're kind of still under that same bracket, really, because it's crazy how much they really do fade, but they also are super hard to get out.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

Cherry cola, you're adding in that red hue.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

It all goes into the colour. Very high maintenance. Yeah. Very high maintenance. Also very beautiful, but very high maintenance. Yeah. I have a lady who comes and she gets the most beautiful. What would you say? Like, I wouldn't say shikowboy copper.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Kinda ish, though. Kinda. She's just a little bit more on the darker side.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

Orange. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

You usually do like copper copper with like the copper gold in there. It's very beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah, it's really nice.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Is there a red copper and RC?

SPEAKER_03 31:14

RC, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

I think I use a you might use a little bit of that. A little combination of it.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

It's an RC plus. In Matrix, they have the nice reflectors and all that line.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

I just doesn't touch that on your roots because it gives it that like dark. Little pop, yeah. Which is very nice. If you're someone who like, oh yeah, I have a shower and I burn my skin every time. Like I hate even cool, like even room temperature water, don't get a fashion color because it will just wash literally down the drainage.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

And it's actually kind of cool to see that difference if you were doing like a little test strand. Yeah. On if you did like a violet red and you rinsed it in a really hot water versus really cold water. You can see that run it with the hot water, but you don't see that run out of color in the cold water.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

I tell my clients if I have someone coming in for a fashion color before we even start. Yeah. I'm like, I'm just letting you know now when I rinse you, I'm going to rinse you with cold water.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Yep. And a very good shampoo, as we have tried with Emily over here. She had the magenta in her hair. And um when they came up with a new glow mania line, she actually, we were like, you need to give this a try. And we were like, Emily, did you color your hair? She's like, no, I haven't colored it in weeks. It's a glow mania line that I've been using. It was not budging. Not budging.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

That gallon of shampoo and conditioner to my lady who gets like the cabicophone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

And I, hand of God, like, I'm not trying to push it. It's legit. It really made my color last. And I know it did because that was my second time coloring it. Yeah. The first time it faded so much faster because I was using, I was still using the color care, the matrix purple one that's for color care. But it something in that glowania that it's some acid that's in there, I'm pretty sure. Starts with a G or something. I don't know if it's glycolic acid or not, but there's something in there that makes the color hold on, and I got compliments on it until I covered it up.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

Now, literally, you could tell when she freshly washed it and dried it because it looked like she got a color freshly done.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Yep, it looked really good. So if anybody is listening here that any color, to be honest, you can do this for, but especially the ones we're talking about, like vivids or these ones with the red and orange undertones, Glow Mania by Matrix is a game changer.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Actually, I'm just searching it right now because I want to give you the detail on it. So it actually says for the technology, it uses glycolic acid for surface lamination and the rose hip oil for nourishment.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Oh yeah, because it does and maybe that's because we were talking about dry hair. Dry hair color doesn't if your hair's dry, your color doesn't look good. Yeah. So maybe by the rose hip getting in there in my hair, it was making it more moisturized and and it is sulfate free.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I think all of their colored hair ones are.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

I'm not sure, but it might be.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

That's okay. We'll forgive you. But yes, it does give it that diamond-like shine. So I mean, it is a very nice shampoo.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

And it smells really good.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Yeah, because it did replace my my favorite one, but it was the oh brain fart. Can't even think of it what it was called. Oh, the keep me vivid. Keep me vivid. And I love the smell of it. And it was really good. But that's what it did end up replacing.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

But it is good. So I mean it's tried and true. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Alright, here I have a question. Yeah. It's gonna sound weird, but like I think you're gonna understand what I'm asking. So, how should clients bring an inspiration picture of like those vivid colors without expecting it to turn out exactly 100% like the picture?

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Well, that's where your consultation would come into play, and we would say, you know.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Like say if I'm bringing you in like I don't know, we have a ghost in here.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Yeah, oh, it's definitely your watch, yeah. We thought a ghost was like knocking on the table.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Say if someone brings in like they have like darker hair and they want like not like an eggplant color, not like a light purple, they want like the richest darkest purple highlights. And they want it to look exactly like that, styled and everything. It's like, how do we explain that to them that it's not gonna look under the thing?

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Well, it depends what they have for hair, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Sometimes it can, but I think that just goes back to the same as blondes, where it's like, yeah, you need to know these are inspirations to look like thicker is not like that.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

Yeah, thicker, thinner, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Yeah, like and that's porosity and everything.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah, that's where we would go in and just say, you know, depending on what they obviously came in with for hair. Yeah, we would tell them maybe that difference. Or sometimes I also tell them like cover up the face.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

What do you like about it? Yeah. Or what don't you like about it? Yeah. And just tell them.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

I'll try to get them to find a picture of the back of the head, not the front.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah. I know. That's the one thing that is frustrating, is they show a lot of the front and the side, but they never show the back. The back.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

I know it is, it's annoying. Yeah, I hate that also. Me too.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Why do fashion colours fade so much quicker? Do we know the science behind it?

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Well, because they're semi-permanent colours.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

They're not a permanent hair color, so it's not meant to be changing your hair.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Yeah. Because I mean, even if you use a semi or a demi of brown, it's also fading out. Yeah. But the brown, like, especially if it's on darker hair, it's fading out dark, whereas like red or purple, blue, whatever, they're fading back to whether it's the blonde or the brown, and you're taking it out. So that's why you notice it a lot more than you would.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

Just like think of your colour theory. Like if you have a nice rich, dark blue, after a few months it's gonna be green.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah. Well, and also going back to what we've talked about it in previous episodes, where a semi-permanent only sits on the outside of the hair shaft and permanent colors that go in deep into the hair shaft. So that's also the science behind it. Yeah, honestly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

Another reason, like when I was talking to my client the other day, a toner might not be working because someone could have put a permanent color on you three years ago.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Yeah. Yeah. And if you That's why it's really good to advocate for yourself too in the chair in the sense of like, I want to know what's going on my hair. You should pay attention to whether your hair stylist is using a permanent or semi or a demi, because if you go to another hairstylist, you need to be able to tell them this is what somebody else put on my hair, so they know.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Yes. Ask them. And we won't be offended.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

No, I find like that's a thing. Like, we we've had not a whole lot of issues lately, but just very little issues, but like where people are done with their color service and then they're like, Oh, why is it so expensive? And I mean, sometimes there's just that miscommunication. I mean, we're human, it happens, but also like I can't sit here and blame with the client or blame myself. I mean, it's just miscommunication, but like some people do come into the salon and expect it to be dirt cheap. Yeah. But yeah, and like if that's what you're used to paying, then that's where you should be like up front as a client, like, okay, so like what's it gonna cost at the end of the service? Like, I may I may only have a budget. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Like you gotta tell us so we can work with it. Because if you're asking us for a six hundred dollar service and you have 200 bucks, well, we need to adjust what we're doing today. Right. So how we're and in saying that, the the especially the vivid colors we're talking about. Double the price. Double the price.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Yeah, because it's not cheap, it's it's a double service really because you're lightning and then you're putting that color on top of it.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Y'all, you have to do a full set of highlights if someone has dark hair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Or a full bleach.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

And it's sitting with that color on.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Not just put that color on though. You have to go, you have to you have to foil them or bleach them, then you have to wash their hair, then you have to blow dry them. Then you gotta put on the fashion color, let it sit, and then wash it again and style.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

And if you're doing it for just those pieces, you're putting it back in a foil.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yes, yeah, and you gotta pick out those blonde pieces after you dry your hair if you're doing highlights.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

If someone's coming in for a fashion color like needs to be lifted, like bleached first, not someone that's already had it, or fashion color highlights, that's an eight-hour appointment.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Oh, probably. I I did I I did that not long ago.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Well, actually, a few months ago or something. And that's pricey. Especially because not only on the amount of product, but if you just took up a hairstylist whole day, as we've mentioned before, we're lucky we're paid hourly. But if you're going to a salon that's commission or chair rental and you're their only client all day, they'll start charging you. They are gonna charge you hourly. Like, and even in our salon, we start a hundred bucks an hour for a color correction. Yeah, if you're sitting in our chair, yeah. A true color correction is a hundred dollars an hour. Yeah, yeah. So if you're sitting there for five hours, there's five hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Yeah. Like, just think, it depends on the length of your hair. Well, most people come in medium length. Yeah, you're starting at $150 for highlights. Yeah, yeah. At least starting point.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Yeah. $200 if you got long hair. Yeah. Past past those boobs, you pay in $200 starting.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

And that's if we don't use any more product, which we're going to. So now double that because we're gonna do all those foils. Yeah. Then we're gonna do them all again by putting the color in there. Like you're doubling your price. If you're looking at starting at $400, well, the last salon, that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

The last salon I was at, there's a girl, she always gets fashion colors. She comes in like every three, four months. She pays like $500 every time or more. There's been times she's paid, I've seen her pay over $600.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

And one time she got red, but a very fire engine red. But this girl goes all the colors of the rainbow. So then the stylist needs to strip those colors out.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Rehighlight, they gotta formulate. You gotta really know your color theory to do vivids. You can't just slap on the color you want either. No, like you might be looking for a purple, and the formula might not even really have much purple in it because if your hair color you gotta look at what your hair starts at.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

So it's a lot of work and it is a it's a very specialized service, and your stylist does need to be like if I'm for I'm almost five years in. And if I had a fashion color come in, a hundred percent I'd be asking you or Monica or Amanda for a second set of eyes to help me formulate because I haven't done enough vivids and I'm only five years in, and I think it's a very specialized service.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Yeah, it really is. Like, you also gotta know if you only lift that hair to a level eight, well, that purple that you're putting on is gonna sit on the hair at a level eight differently than it would on a level ten. So you also have to know that color theory.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

You can't put same as you can't go and throw a blue on unless you lifted that hair high enough because it's gonna look green. Yeah. Like you gotta think of the colors you mix together.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Yeah. And yeah. That was another thing. Like, I actually follow this girl on um TikTok. Um, it's Crystal Chaos or Chaos Crystal. I really like her, and that's literally all she does. And her work is beautiful, but she does do different things, how she goes about, because sometimes she has toned her blondes before to like even out her blonde, because like you could have a level 10 at the root and a level seven on your end. So that's where sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't want to do that work since it's an extra step, but sometimes that extra step that you didn't do will bite you in the bum, and it has before to me. Yeah, but you know what? That's where like I tell some of the girls who haven't been doing hair as me, I'm like, you're going to fuck up to learn.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

And that is hard to hear, and nobody wants to hear that, and nobody wants to fuck up. But that is like one of our coworkers, um, other our other Emily, she actually was doing some highlights yesterday and she was really nervous about doing it, and she did a really good job.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Yeah, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

But she was very nervous. She's like, I don't know, like my foils are slipping, and I don't know if I'm gonna know how to like tone her or what to tone her with or what to use. And I'm like, just go and do it. Do it. Do it yourself, you know. You're you're gonna fuck up. If you fuck up, that's okay. Yeah, you can fix that. Color is fixable, yeah. Nobody wants to fuck up.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

But that also makes you learn. Exactly. And it makes you better, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Because you grow in challenges, and that's anything in life.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

And we're all human, we're all gonna freak up at some point in life. I just it is what it is. We're talking about fuck up.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

Going darker after being blonde is a whole nother thing. Yes. Because you now have to fill the hair. Yes. Which we had a whole kerfuffle when I was in hair school. We were all new. I'm learning. You were learning. I can step out of this one. I wasn't a part of it. We got to see the aftermath of why did it go wrong what happened was because they were putting dirt on someone who was blonde and then it was like green. Yeah. And we were like, what is happening? And then we all collectively as a group got to understand and realize shit, we didn't fail the hair.

SPEAKER_05 45:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

That's a good learning moment, actually. What does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 45:25

You are putting back that color that you lifted out.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Yeah, because like we said earlier in the episode, when you bleach your hair, you're taking the color out.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

So you gotta put it back in.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah, and where that natural level lives. Like it's all that color theory behind it.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

So when would you fill someone's hair?

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Because like every time you go back to levels or more. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Because if I'm like, say if I'm just going someone who's like, No, I'm seriously, I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

No, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

No, I'm not laughing. I just have a story that I just thought of.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

But that's that's how you know.

SPEAKER_04 46:01

Yeah, like say if I write Say if I was a level seven and I wanted to go to a level four.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

Why can't you just put a four on it? Because it's gonna be dark.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Because you don't a level seven lives at blonde, they don't have a red undertone. Yeah. A level seven and above, even a six, you could a six is a still a blonde, so they got more orange-ish in there. But a five and below has a lot of red undertones, so we're talking you're brown.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

But I think that's where even like I'm I'm admitting right now, I'm year in and that's where I am still not understanding how you fill the hair.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

So uh for us, specifically in our salon, and I'm sure other salons are the same, Matrix has provided us with a very big poster so that you can learn how to backfill and they show your color, they show your line with your levels and the underlying tones. Yes. So it's not like, oh, you go slap a red on. Like if I was dropping down to like a level seven, like you just said, or a six, I'm gonna put orange to fill their hair. Yeah. More orange.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

So it's just gonna be something that you add to your formula.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

No, no, you've got to do it before. So your filler with a semi or a demi. I've ever done it. You don't do it with a permanent, you do a semi or a demi, and you it's a two-step thing. What cowboy copper, the girl that I did last summer that I mentioned earlier, I had to fill her. Yep. She was like a level nine when she came in, and I was only dropping down to like a seven, eight.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

But it was still such a difference that I first put her an orange glaze on her or an orange tone or whatever you want to call it. Yep. And then I went back and I redid it. It makes the color so much more rich.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Yep. See, I've never done it, so I didn't actually know.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah, it was kind of a cool process, actually. And it's also a little scary. I watched a TikTok video on it yesterday, and this girl literally had instant regret. But she literally went from like a level 10 to like a level 3-4.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Oh my god, yeah, you need to put red.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Well, they did, and that's what she was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

But then when you put the brown on, it looks so nice.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

And also, if you don't fill the hair and you go back that dark from like a level 10 to or a level like 9-10 or whatever, and then you go to like a level 4-5, it can look muddy. Yeah. Your color will look muddy and it will not stay. It's just gonna literally rinse right off the hair shaft.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

And it's not gonna look nice and blonde like you had before. It's gonna look ugly. It's gonna look like stained and it doesn't have that.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

So you think of like a hole in your wall. If you don't fill that hole and you paint over it, what's gonna happen? Yeah. You know what I mean? It's gonna be hollow. It's sheer, it's hollow. You know what I mean? You don't have that concrete background to hold it.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

So color, the best way to think of it for color, your hair is not just one color. Your hair is made up your underlying color and then your top color. It's two layers. Yeah. And your underlying color is either gonna be red, yellow, or orange.

unknown 49:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

That's just how it is, and the hair stylists understand that. So when you take that underlying tone out by going lighter, you can't go dark without having it because no underlying tone is like a bleach blonde where it's almost white. Yeah. So I think that's another thing clients really don't understand or get. Yeah. But in saying that, if you come in and you're you're really blonde and you're going to a brown or darker, even if we fill your hair, after that first appointment, your hair's still gonna fade fast. And I'm gonna tell you, yeah, within a month, your hair is not gonna look this good after the second appointment, your hair is not gonna fade that way because the bleach and your hair, it just still takes the color, just comes out really quick because your cuticle is not filled enough. It's just impossible to fill it enough the way you need to.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, exactly. So what then, because we talked about blondes, what home care can help brunette color stay rich after going for a blonde?

SPEAKER_03 50:17

The same things that we said with like the keeping the moisture in and stuff, be your color hair shampoo, I guess. Yes, but I know, like there's probably other lines that do it too, but Matrix specifically has a dark envy shampoo and it's a green based.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

But I think they discontinued it.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

I feel like they might have too, but it worked so good. So if you can find yourself on the market a green-based um shampoo and you have brown hair, if you don't like those red undertones and you find it's fading a bit, the green will cancel that out. So that's another maintenance, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

Yeah, and I guess if you're someone who went from okay, I was blah, but now I want to get a balayage or I want to go brunette, you can kick out the purple shampoo because you don't want that strip, you don't want to strip that yellow tone out of there because that's what's keeping it dark.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Yeah, exactly. The other thing that I don't think that we've mentioned, well, we did briefly, but any color you wear, whether it's blonde, brown, vivid, heat is made gonna you can literally clamp that straightener or curling iron on your hair without heat protector, and the color fades right before your eyes. Yeah. But if you have the heat protector, it keeps the color locked in.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Sorry, I'm just trying to find a picture of a good example of Sam was a slightly naughty girl, but you know, it's kind of nice to just be like, okay, look, this is what I did. Should I have no, but I did. Um, one of my friends actually was fairly light and she had vivid colors in it before, and it was pretty grown out. There was a lot of hair that I probably should have filled. And I did not fill it, and she went to I don't remember exactly what level that we did, but she actually went fairly fairly dark. And I did not fill it. And it looked really nice. When I find it, I will show you. But I did not fill her hair and look good, but I did add a bunch of warmth into that color, and her hair did not fade at all. It actually was really good, and we were very quite surprised because her hair is very fine and it was a little compromised in some spots, but I gave her a really good trim. Yeah, and it lasted really well.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Yeah. Sometimes that's like where we said earlier. Sometimes the hair doesn't follow the rule and shocks you, and you're like, thank you, hair gods.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 52:59

So I think before we dive into the game, because don't want to keep you dragging on too long, get just bored. I think one thing we should touch on really quickly is just what is the difference between gray blending and gray coverage.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Yes, that's a good idea. Because those are a very popular service.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

And they're very different.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Gray coverage, you're literally fully coloring over top of your hair, like covering it nobody like that client does not want to see any gray at all.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

That's where you're using your 20 volume, yeah. You're like depositing, you're not just depositing, you're putting that on the roots all through. That's where you're doing your basically your all over color. So like I don't want to see my pretty sprinkles in my hair. Yeah. Yep. No gray blending. Yeah, it's just a whole different story.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Yes, and there's many different approaches of how you can go about that.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

That when you're gray blending, is you wanting to embrace that.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

And so that I haven't really done much gray blending, but you're going to lift them to look lighter. Yep. That's how that gray will start to go. Yep. And it's depends.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

And you gotta look at the color of gray. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Or if they're full salt and pepper.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Yeah. But also it depends on what they're trying to achieve.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Exactly. So are they a white gray? Are they a silver gray? Yeah. And yes, what they want to achieve. What's their goal? What's their maintenance goal?

SPEAKER_02 54:28

And then what's on the ends of their hair? You know?

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

There's a lot more to it than you actually think.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

100%. And you'll see people that have gray blending, but you'll notice once it starts to fade, it almost looks like a brassy brown. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

That's another thing you gotta warn your clients about. We have a couple clients who come in and their gray blending isn't putting highlights in, it's actually putting low lights in. That's what I mean. To mix to make some of the dark, like a lot of people you'll notice the back of their hair doesn't turn gray, like especially the bottom, the nape. Like it's the last place to go gray. Yeah. So the front of their hair might be fully silver and the back really salt and pepper. They want the front to be salt and pepper too. Exactly. So yeah, you gotta have those conversations of what is gray blending. And that's the service I was talking about that the stylist here charges a thousand. I'm sure that's more to go full gray. Yeah. Like, I don't think they're doing a thousand dollars just for gray blending, but like when you see those big services where people strip their color and they do go gray, and yeah, it's that's a few that's a day process. That's a whole day process.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Probably like a full, full thing. Like, say like Ella had dark, long, dark hair, and she wanted to transform fully, like, go gray. You know what I mean? Like, that would be a full thing. Like a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Probably a couple sessions.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

And it could be, that's the thing. Like, you know, people have to understand that as well. Yeah. And that's where we would just be up front and you know, let you know. It may not be a one-sit service, it could be a few sessions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Where this all comes to again, is communication. Yes. Because gray blending to you is gonna be completely different from gray blending to me. Yeah, yeah. And that's why, yes, nine months of hair school, whatever. But that's why they take the longest to teach you about your color theory. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Yeah, and you don't stop learning.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Like I actually'm still learning as well.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

I'm about to enroll in a course online all about color theory and chemistry because you can't stop learning. Our manager, same thing. Our manager's always learning. We're always sharing little tidbits to each other, too.

SPEAKER_04 56:33

We're like you send videos all the time.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Yeah, we're like, oh my god, look at this. And things change. So what we learn right now, new technology is always coming out. There's and we said it's art. Yeah, we're artists, you find new ways.

SPEAKER_04 56:47

Has said the day she stops learning will be the day she hangs up her shears.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Yeah, that's what I say. That's my theory. And that's the same in any trade, I think. Yeah, yeah. Any trade, like you're gonna get left behind in the dust if you can't grow and if you can't keep up with the times. And yet, how many times has everybody heard somebody say, I'm not going to this hairstylist? They're too old school. That's not because the stylist is old, that's because they're doing old techniques. Yeah. Under a heat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

And like, you know, tweet your own. That's where we're all different and how we approach it is different, you know? Like, whatever. Yeah. It's just whatever we like and whatever we know. Yeah. It's like teaching an old dog new tricks. Yeah. We have our ways at sometimes, I will say myself, but you know, that's it just is what it is. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

So our end game today is kind of more of like, I feel like this would be a fun one for them to like play at the school. Yeah. Because it's kind of like a discussion game. Yeah. But like also fun. So I'm gonna like give the first question and I'm gonna be like asking it as a client. And then I want you guys to respond as a stylist. So it's basically like what I'm asking, and then basically how you would consult with me.

SPEAKER_05 58:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

So I want platinum blonde today, but my hair is bop side black.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

There's a very good chance you're gonna come out caramel. If the gods are nice, you can come out platinum.

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Yeah. I was gonna say if the gods are nice, you'll come out caramel. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

I'm gonna tell them I don't know what you're gonna look like today, and I'm gonna show you the range of pictures and what your tolerance level is. Because if you can't tolerate looking like you're still brown, possibly, then this isn't for you because this is a process.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Yeah, I actually watched uh that's funny that we say that because I watched a TikTok video on it last night. Um, this girl was doing years and years and years and years of black box dye. And oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Is she doing with the really long hair? She's growing out her natural now.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

No, no. This was just a girl, she wanted I don't know what she was trying to achieve. Anyways, it was just showing like in the foil how it lifted, and it was pretty dark still. Yeah. So I mean, it's a process. And you're doing a test strand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

As soon as someone tells me they have black box dye, whether it's a year or two months, yeah. I was in hair school and I had someone black box dye their hair three weeks ago and they wanted to go platinum blonde. Oh my god. They got nice caramel highlights.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Yeah. And that's just it, right? Like it's a it's unless you want to have no hair.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Exactly. Unless you want to come out with a pixie cut.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

Exactly.

unknown 59:33

You want a chemical haircut?

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Yeah. We can do that then.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Like, shout out to Lorena at work. She was black and then she bleached her hair, I think, three times. And it did it looked crazy.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

It did look really good. But the thing is, Lorena had a pixie cut. Yes. So most of that black was already cut out of her hair and it was close to the root. So when you have short hair, it's close to the root with the heat. That's more realistic.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Than longer hair that has all that color. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Exactly. Um, alright, so I want to be cowboy copper, but I only want to come in twice a year.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

As long as you are okay with that middle of the year fade out, dull looking color.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Not even middle of the year, month, month and a half tops.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

But I mean like come time in the middle where it's fully like starting to grow out and it's just like the roots and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Yeah, because especially if they have dark hair, that's a big contrast. Yeah, even blonde hair, it doesn't matter what color hair actually. Cowboy copper against any grow out, you're gonna see that. Not even just the fading, because it's gonna fade to more brown. Yeah. Like a brownish color, it's not gonna stay cowboy copper. Yeah, it's like muddy. And then you throw on your friggin' roots on top of that twice a year. You're looking at six inches of roots or more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

I'm gonna tell them straight up. Not realistic. That's not realistic.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:57

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

That is a service you need to be coming back like anywhere from six to eight weeks. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It really depends. Um, I want gray blending, but I do not want to see any gray.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

As I said, that's where it comes down to your communication. Yes. And that's where I'm gonna say to my client, actually, you're looking for gray coverage. Yes. You're not looking to blend your gray. Exactly. And I'm going to explain the difference. Blending is where you're trying to embrace your gray. Yes. If you don't want to see none of that sprinkles, you're getting gray coverage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

Which is a permanent hair color. And that's double pigment. Yeah. So you better, if you're doing a brown or a black, I hope you're not coming back to ask me to make you blonde or actually blend your grays anytime soon. That's funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Um, I want pink hair. But I wash my hair daily with very hot water.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

You're gonna have pink hair for your first wash. I was gonna say for five seconds. Yeah, we already touched on that. You need cool water because hot water's gonna open up your cuticle and the color's gonna slip right out of there. Yeah. Big time.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

I want bailage, but I want brightness right to my scalp.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

I'd be whipping out pictures to say Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

See, that one can be tricky, but it also can be easier if they're already bright. Yeah. Because you could just give them a lived in look.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

But then, yeah, but but a lived in look isn't a balayage. If you look at what a true balayage is, then I'd say we're not doing a balayage, but like what you guys said, you actually want a lived in blonde or you actually want a full highlight right to your root.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

Like, yeah. Because balayage are supposed to do it's dark, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

Like it has the it just has the contrast, but it has the strips and ribbons of color. You're pulling in like a V section, and all it is. It's the technique that you're doing. That's all it is, and a lot of balayage is actually open air. Yeah, it's foilage if you put it in a foil, so you're not gonna get if you're the other thing with the balayage, if you're a brunette and you want to have a blonde balayage, yeah, sorry, you want a foilage because I can't make your hair lift open air with without the foil and the heat.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

A foil, foilage, whatever. But balayage, when you have open air and no foils, how many levels will it lift?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

A couple.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:37

Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna maybe get to one.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

You're gonna get two or three levels, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Because with the open air, yeah. Or even like the clay. Yeah. The clay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

The outer clay one is four.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

Yeah, open air. You don't put clay in the you I mean you it does say on it not to put in a foil.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

So yeah. Um but because it because what it does is it creates a cast. Yeah. But it's still moist on the inside. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

And you want that cast on the outside. Yeah. So and then it still works underneath, so you gotta put it on thicker. You gotta lay it thick. A lot thicker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:10

Alright, last question is Emily Client.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:13

Um, I went dark after blonde and now it faded. My hair stylists messed up, didn't they?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

You went dark after blonde. And now it faded.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Did my hair stylist mess up? Or I would say what I would say would I be like, well, was it filled?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Well, that's a hard one because it's kind of throwing the stylus under the bus because if you did go dark after being blonde and it faded, yeah. It probably didn't fill you. And it didn't fit.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:47

Well, not necessarily because if it's their first time going light to dark, it's gonna fade. It's gonna. Their hair is already porous. Yeah, like it there's a lot of background behind that, right? I'd have I would say if they didn't come to if they came to me from another salon saying that, I would say, I would ask, well, did you have two steps done? Like, did you have a color put on and then another color? If they said no, I'd say that could possibly be it, because you should fill. But I would also say, is this your first time? Obviously, it is their first time going from dark, yeah. It's gonna fade. And this next time you're gonna get more, you'll get longer.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

Yeah, that that's that one is really tough because really there's a lot of questions to that. Yeah, and there could be multiple answers as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

And I think we did touch a lot on that on color fading. So if you forget, just rewind the episode and we'll tell you why. Exactly. Well, that was fun. That was fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

I guess that wraps up our yeah, because I know this might be a more boring episode for some people, but this is a deeper dive into color, and like this is what goes. Through, like, this is what we have to go through. Like, yep, there's sometimes little panic moments.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

Like you see a toner starting to turn pink, you get that off the hair. Like, yeah, these are the things you need to learn.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:12

And you're just gonna keep learning.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

And we could literally sit here for hours and talk.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Oh my god, we could literally have a part two because there's so much to it. And if you guys liked it and you have any questions, seriously let us know, and we will answer them and go through them.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:29

Yeah, that stuff, literally all on its own for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

100%. Everything we talked about, we could break down even more. So if you guys liked it, please let us know. For sure. And send it to someone.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Send us emails. What?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

I was like, send to someone. You're like, send emails. We just like we we had like a jinx but about different topics.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:48

Well, like, no, like message us. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Yeah, we do. And comments and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

Makes for more fun for us because then we get we don't have to come up with all the topics. We get to answer your questions. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

Yeah. Yeah. So thanks so much for hanging out with us today on Untangle It All.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

If you liked today's episode, share it with your stylist bestie.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:10

Come back next week for more stories, chaos, and swan life.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

See you next time. Bye.