Living in the space beyond cancer

When life changes – through a cancer diagnosis, treatment and the slow rebuild that follows – it can feel like a wave knocks you off your feet. In this episode, Dr Lee David speaks with Dr Darelle Gengasamy about the moment everything shifted, the surge of despair, the pull of purpose and the everyday choices that helped her find steadier ground.

They explore the shock of diagnosis, the need to find a next step, and how reconnecting with personal values can bring direction when life feels uncertain. Darelle speaks candidly about accepting help, the power of community during COVID lockdowns and how small acts of care helped her rediscover meaning and identity.

This is a conversation about adapting to change with compassion – finding strength through connection, curiosity and the courage to keep shaping life in new ways.

Highlights & key moments 

 00:00 The wave hits – shock, self-blame and anchoring to purpose
 03:22 Hospital in lockdown – facing sepsis, uncertainty and isolation
 05:00 Breaking bad news – the “wall of water” moment
 07:18 Regaining power – “What’s the plan?” and saying yes to support
 12:02 Threat, drive, soothe – why relentless doing needs balance
 15:23 Receiving help – identity shifts and letting the village in
 17:08 Values as compass – keeping family at the centre
 19:44 Acts of service – small helps that rebuild confidence
 23:01 The Choice Pause – Acceptance Pause practice
 25:04 Recovery and reflection – rebuilding confidence after treatment
 27:18 Flexibility and experimentation – workarounds, setbacks and new doors opening
 32:49 Comparison trap and recognising your own needs
 35:23 Protecting energy – permission to decline what overwhelms
 37:16 Learning self-compassion – and why a supportive team matters 

About the host

Dr Lee David is a GP, CBT therapist and author specialising in mental health and wellbeing. Lee has written many books on CBT, mindfulness and teen wellbeing, and speaks regularly at conferences and in the media. Away from work she enjoys running, hiking, singing in a choir and spending time outdoors with her family. You can find Lee through her website and on Instagram, TikTok (@dr.lee.david) and LinkedIn.  You can find more about her books, wellbeing courses and therapy here:  https://linktr.ee/dr.lee.david 

About the guest

Darrelle is an experienced GP with a passion for supporting mental health and wellbeing. She works as a GP and as a Lead Clinician with NHS Practitioner Health.  Currently completing her coaching qualification, she has developed a growing interest in supporting doctors with neurodivergent traits. At the age of 39 she was diagnosed with complex Stage 3 bowel cancer. This experience deepened her understanding of her core value of supporting others and how that value positively influences her own wellbeing. Grateful for the care and community that supported her recovery, she continues to focus on helping others find strength, purpose and connection beyond adversity. You can contact her via Instagram (@wellbeing_in_practice) or Linkedin

References

ESMO Patient Guide on cancer survivorship: 

About the host

Dr Lee David is a GP, CBT therapist and author specialising in mental health and wellbeing. Lee has written many books on CBT, mindfulness and teen wellbeing, and speaks regularly at conferences and in the media. Away from work she enjoys running, hiking, singing in a choir and spending time outdoors with her family. You can find Lee through her website and on Instagram, TikTok (@dr.lee.david), Facebook and LinkedIn.  You can find more about her books, wellbeing courses and therapy here:  https://linktr.ee/dr.lee.david 

Transcript

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Darrelle (00:00)
when he said to me it was cancer this huge moment of it's my fault, this is my fault, how on earth did I miss my own cancer when I spend so much of the time picking up everybody else's?

There's a moment in a film that comes back to me where there's this big wall of water and these people are standing on the beach and I could feel this big wall of water moving towards me that was just about to swallow me up and sweep me away. reflecting on that now, I suspect that feeling was despair, and suddenly thought of my children came up and I thought no I can't get swallowed up by this because I have to be here for them, I have to do something for them.

and I just thought I need to move this conversation on what do we do? That's what I said to them. What do we do?

Lee (01:00)
Welcome to the Choice Space podcast. I'm Dr Lee David, GP, CBT therapist and author. Today, we're exploring the journey through and beyond cancer, a time marked by both hope and uncertainty, when life can take on a new shape and meaning. From the moment of diagnosis to life after treatment, each stage brings its own challenges, making sense of change,

coping with physical effects, navigating shifts in identity and relationships, and facing the question of what comes next.

Recovery is about rebuilding confidence, caring for wellbeing and rediscovering a sense of purpose and connection and often involves reflection, support and time. Whether you're living with or beyond cancer, supporting someone close to you or working in healthcare, this conversation is about finding strength, balance and meaning through each stage of the journey. My guest today is Dr Darelle Gengasamy, GP, coach and lead clinician at NHS Practitioner Health, who brings both professional insight and personal experience of living beyond the cancer diagnosis. Darrelle, welcome. Could you start by introducing yourself and telling us a little more about you and your experiences with cancer?

Darrelle (02:14)
Yeah, thanks so much, That's a lovely introduction. a real privilege to be here with you today. I'm a GP by background I have always had a really strong interest and passion in supporting people who are struggling with mental health challenges. And I am super lucky now to be able to support my peers through work at Practitioner Health alongside yourself. I'm also developing my coaching qualification and practice I'm developing an interest in neurodivergence, particularly in doctors. But as you say, I had my own curve ball and in the middle of COVID lockdown, I was diagnosed with a surprise complicated stage three bowel cancer which set me on a huge journey with a lot of uncertainty about where it was going to lead and what the outcome was going to be.

Lee (03:08)
so that sounds like a huge journey, especially because it happened in lockdown when there was, a lot less support than you would normally get. you tell us a bit about what happened during that period?

Darrelle (03:22)
It was all a bit of a whirlwind really. So I was navigating COVID lockdowns, both my husband and doctors, our children were in key worker school. we were dashing into work, dropping the children at school, collecting them as soon as we could finish work. I was at work one day, working opposite a colleague. I'd done my phone calls and shouted across the corridor to a colleague saying I'm just gonna lie down for a minute I don't feel great and she said is everything fine? I said yeah, I'll be fine, my next patient's in 30 minutes. I'll be able to carry on Didn't feel great and soldiered on for a few days, but was then pressed by my husband and a good friend to go into hospital and then that started the whole business of being diagnosed with abdominal sepsis with an uncertainty as to what the cause was. And it was very tricky, but I...  was lucky that my husband and a very good friend worked at that hospital, I was able to see some familiar faces. there were definitely people who were struggling at that time who wouldn't have had that around them. And so when the diagnosis came and hit me like a ton of bricks, although nobody could physically reach me or touch me, I could look at their faces and find strength in that.

Lee (04:42)
mentioned a little bit about of getting the diagnosis, can feel, because you were fit, healthy, very unexpected. And whilst there were some familiar faces, guessing it still felt quite isolated. How was that moment of diagnosis for when that news first hit you?

Darrelle (05:00)
⁓ was like a big, huge wave engulfing me. was on my bed when the consultant arrived with a nurse dressed in a red uniform. And that was a bit of a flag in that I knew this wasn't going to be an appendicitis that they were telling me about. It was a Breaking Bad News conversation.

and when he said to me it was cancer I just felt this huge moment of it's my fault, this is my fault, how on earth did I miss my own cancer when I spend so much of the time picking up everybody else's?

There's a moment in a film that comes back to me where there's this big wall of water and these people are standing on the beach and I could feel this big wall of water moving towards me that was just about to swallow me up and sweep me away. almost it. And I suppose, reflecting on that now, I suspect that feeling was despair, but

I couldn't articulate that in the moment and actually it's probably taken me this long to realise that that's what that feeling was and I felt like it was just about to swallow me and suddenly the thought of my children came up and I thought no I can't I can't get swallowed up by this because I have to be here for them, I have to do something for them

I just remember looking at the consultant and the nurse and them not knowing what to say to me and I just thought I need to move this conversation on what do we do? That's what I said to them. What do we do? And there was a lot of things said there and I'm not really sure whether I heard any of them.

Lee (06:41)
So it sounds like there was a lot of emotion at that point. It was like that wall of water that you describe. It's really eloquent. can sort of feel it. And I'm guessing there was lots of feelings in that wall because probably despair, as you mentioned, there might have also been some fear, a whole complicated mix. And there was a part of you that was saying, this is my fault, this is my fault.

Darrelle (06:45)
Mm.

Lee (07:02)
And then a part of you saying, we've got to get on, we cannot just sit here and get by this wall of water. We've got to do something, we've got to try and take some control or get our power back. And is that how it felt for you that there was a part of you saying, right, we need to move this on, what next?

Darrelle (07:18)
you know, you've just said a word there that just really resonated with me I felt like need to get the power back here. slipping away from me. I'm feeling powerless. How do I regain power here? I remember just saying to him, what is the plan? And then he started to tell me bits of the plan. And in that lovely, patient-centered way,

he started to say to me, take some time, what do you think? And I said, no, no, we've got to crack on, let's do it. Whatever you say is the right thing to do. We should do that. And I think I to lots of things there that I don't really recall. I said yes to things that pre-cancer, Darrelle might not have said yes to. So one of the things that came up there was them offering me a therapist, offering me a psychologist. And I think pre-cancer Darelle would have just said, no, no, I'm fine. I'm okay. But actually, because I was so conscious that I needed to do absolutely everything to be present for my children, I just said, whatever you say I have to do, I will do that. I can do it.

Lee (08:30)
that's quite a shift. Cause if you think about you back in the surgery you're saying, well, I'll just lie down and I'm sure I'll be fine. Feels like that's a big move onwards from that place to the, I'm just going to do everything we can. I feel like I need to do it all. wanted to just go back to the part of you that was blaming - the self blame part. Cause I think a lot of people

Darrelle (08:37)
Yes.

Lee (08:55)
who have a whole range of different diagnoses could end up in a place of blame. And sometimes that can envelop them and it can become quite a negative thing. Sometimes though, just thinking about the idea of power, when it feels like there's a big wall of water coming towards you, then actually sometimes blaming ourselves is a way of taking back some control. Cause it's like, well, maybe there's something within my control that I can do now. If it's my fault, maybe I can fix it.

so even though it's quite a negative thing, sometimes it galvanizes a little bit of, because it sounds like that sense came out of a blame, is it my fault? And then, well, in that case, what am I going to do about it? And I just wonder if they are actually quite linked?

Darrelle (09:34)
Yeah, you know, I hadn't really thought about that before, but wondering such a strong emotion and it really was, I could really feel it. I could feel it coming for me. such a strong emotion then gave me enough motivation to dig deep and go, right, no, what are we gonna do about this?

Lee (09:55)
I think what we want to perhaps not do is get stuck in the it's my fault idea because it feels like if we have that for a long period of time, it becomes quite a negative belief that zaps our power and drains us and can lead to feeling low and demoralized. But it also sounds like at that moment, you just needed to find some energy from somewhere to come out of the inertia of it'll be fine.

to something's got to change. it's not everybody's, but at that moment, that is just what happened for you, which I think is really important to recognise all parts of us. I always say all our parts have a function. Whatever the voice is saying, we can listen to the message, not the actual words. And the message sounds like I want to have some power back and what can I do about it? And that feels like that's a really important message at that moment for you.

Darrelle (10:30)
Mmm.

it's really interesting how you're framing it, it's giving me so much structure to that feeling, because it was very emotional. And it was so emotional that as I'm thinking about it now, there were occasions where bits of that emotion would come up again it would come up when people would ask me, because it was so shocking to everybody that at 39 I would have this diagnosis because to everybody I was super well and I was working and it floored everybody else and so one of the common things that people would say to me, what symptoms did you have? What symptoms did you have?

That question was always so laden for me with so much guilt and it would bring me in small ways back to that room where I got the diagnosis because it would bring me back to what did I miss? What did I miss? And then very quickly I would start to feel the wave coming again and I would just say to them,

Yeah, it was all very sudden and very quick and this is what's happening now and so I would move the conversation on. But I think you're right, for a long time afterwards and even now, although the volume's turned down on it a little bit, it was such a strong emotion that perhaps the energy from that emotion gave me that purpose to dig deep and move forward with the plan.

Lee (12:02)
when we're faced by super powerful distressing emotions, then we have different emotion systems. So we have the threat system, first of all, and, that was such a huge threat to get a diagnosis that was out of the blue, very terrifying and required a lot of intense treatment that is a physical and emotional threat. And it's a threat to your family as well as to you personally. And so we just have to

recognize and acknowledge the level of the intensity of that threat. And then we some systems, we've got the drive system, which is dopamine based, it's getting stuff done, it's taking control, it's feeling empowered. And it feels like you lent into that system at that point to try and get some energy. it's really helpful. It's very powerful. It gives us that sense of achievement. And you often do need to do to make

Darrelle (12:34)
Mm-hmm.

Lee (12:55)
positive choices, engage in treatment. But if it just becomes threat and then do stuff, threat and then do stuff, threat - drive, it's fatiguing and there's not as much space for that recovery and the compassion and the healing energy that we need as the third part of the process, which is...

Wow, that was really That moment and subsequently really tough period for me. And I need to take some time to be kind and just absorb it make some room because actually this adjustment is huge. And it feels like that energy is also needed to enable you to navigate through the journey hand in hand with all the parts. Does any of that make sense to your own experience?

Darrelle (13:36)
it totally makes sense, Lee. I wonder whether I would have made slightly different decisions had the process been less dramatic.

I was so unwell with it was complicated and it was advanced and there was questions as to whether the whole process would be curative. And this was all happening in very...

isolated circumstances. in that first bit of diagnosis I was stuck in hospital for two and a half weeks and nobody could come and see me I was very limited as to what I had control over and what I could do

And as somebody who has always prided themselves on being the person who is the go-to person, the support for everybody else, the independent, I can manage this, I can do it on my own, I don't need any help, I'll be your help. I suddenly no choice but to accept help. I was incredibly lucky in

my family stepped up hugely, massively. were a tremendous support to me and my children and my husband and my friends. Friends were amazing. my mum friends, my friends from work, friends just from everywhere just all came together and were so helpful.

but also other places like the children's school, they were fantastic. And all of these in different circumstances, I think to myself, would you have accepted that help? Because I can recall one of my friends saying to me, you're such a...private person, thank you for allowing me to help you. I was just blown by did make me think actually in different circumstances I have accepted the help and that was a big lesson for me.

Lee (15:23)
because you have always viewed yourself as very independent, very capable, the go-to person. And then for this period of time, and I'm sure you're back to being that person now, but at that point, then it required being someone who was willing to accept help. do you think that was an actual choice that you made a decision, need to adapt

my identity to be able to make this work?

Darrelle (15:46)
I think it was a choice actually, that my children were very much the driver and became about how do I make this whole process less impactful, more manageable for my children? And I realized that I couldn't do that on my own.

and I couldn't do that to my husband either, if I started shutting things down, I was going to shut down things for him, I was going to shut down avenues of help for him as well. And I realised that actually the help was pouring in from everywhere. People were feeling so helpless that this had happened to me and they couldn't get to me. But actually by allowing them, by accepting their help, that benefited my children, that benefited me, that benefited my husband, but actually it also benefited them.

Lee (16:35)
think we all benefit from possibly even more from giving support than receiving it actually, it's something that enables people to, you talked about power. And I think in the people around us, there's a feeling of powerlessness as well and wanting to contribute in some way to people they care and it's a lovely thing when we're able to lean into that and actually accept it in the spirit that's being offered which is just a sense of care.

Darrelle (16:58)
Yeah, were all so caring. They continue to be. But they were all so caring. it was incredibly valuable to me from every single person.

Lee (17:08)
What speaks to me really loudly is how you just focus so strongly on your purpose, your meaning, your values. It feels like that together and that's how you manage to navigate. We've got the big wave of emotions and I think after that you've described some little recurrent waves again that would be triggered at different points and there can also sometimes be quite a fatigue from having to navigate that big emotional wave over and over. We get quite worn down especially when we're isolated. So how to then maintain it if we're not fighting is, I think, trying to find something that really feels meaningful. And for you, it sounds like your family.

Darrelle (17:50)
My family, my children were always at the I did, every decision I made, every hard challenge that I had to go through made easier because I was very clear on the reason that I was doing it. But I think also there were some little bits along the way because I had gone from being this doctor a week before my diagnosis who was seeing people, supporting people in surgery and then I was a patient was a sudden role change. Suddenly everything got tipped on its head but what I noticed was

because it was COVID and we were so isolated the hospital admission, during the second admission with an operation and then chemotherapy and then more operations and then radiotherapy and more chemo. Throughout all of that, what I saw was so many frightened people who were on their own. we were all getting dropped off, like being dropped off at school gates, we were being dropped off at the hospital entrance and then and the volunteers were wonderful in the hospital but then you would find yourself on your own and and I suddenly thought to myself gosh I'm actually used to a hospital environment so

I find this frightening, but I'm used to this environment. I'm not finding it as frightening as other people who aren't used to hospital environments. And so I just found myself doing little acts of service. So I would help people work out where they were supposed to be, or I would bring them their jug of water, or I would help them reach for something from their bedside table that they couldn't get to, or just talk to them.

I think those little acts of service just really played into what you mentioned about values. I think that provided me with that opportunity to do something that resonated with my values and made me feel good about myself.

Lee (19:44)
It sounds like such an important thing to do. And you can see so many levels that that would be powerful because connects with your values, how you see yourself, and reconnect with your identity as somebody who is able to support others. sometimes people feel it's competitive, is it my needs or theirs felt like that was shared common experience rather than it being who's more important? It was very much like we're all in this together. So I do some support for others that enable me to also feel like I'm giving something back? Is that how it felt for you?

Darrelle (20:20)
It definitely felt like There was a of camaraderie. I think After my big operation was about nine hours and then I stay in ITU and then I was transferred to the ward because of the nature of my cancer, everybody by the complexity of our diagnosis, everybody on that ward had had big operations and considerable recovery to do afterwards. But as I got towards the three week mark and I was becoming more mobile, but others were coming in and they were at the beginning of their journey, it was great to be able to say to them, hey, look, I was where you are three weeks ago. Let me help you with that.

this is a pain, isn't it? That's a struggle. Let me get your hairbrush. Do you want me to come and do this for you? And because we had no access to anybody else, we weren't having any visitors. we all limited our contact

with our families because we were so conscious of what the impact was on them for them to see us with various drains and drips and all sorts of things that actually we lent on each other an awful lot during that time.

Lee (21:25)
So the real power of community, of supporting one another and that connection with people and shared experiences and maybe validating, I know it's scary, I was in your shoes a couple of weeks ago and look, I made it to this point, you can too. So it helps people to feel like it is something that I can do. Because sometimes people feel really overwhelmed and it's a sense of, can I face that wave? I don't know if I can even get through it. So maybe seeing somebody who has just even a couple of steps ahead of us, it really helps to recognise that that path is something that we may be able to do ourselves.

Darrelle (22:02)
And we were people who had really nothing else in common. We were from parts of the country. I was the youngest there at that time. We lived very different lives. And we would find joy in small things. We were on the third floor, I think, and a pianist, there was a baby grand piano in the foyer.

and if the nurses opened the doors to all the wards and the corridor could hear that music travel up on a Friday and I remember it vividly on my third Friday I was mobile enough to go out and able to stand at the top of the stairs and listen to the pianist and I got a video and a photo and brought it back into the ward so that the others who were bedbound could have a listen and also see the pianist and was those moments that we pulled each other up, we kept each other focused what we were doing, what was the purpose.

Lee (23:01)
This is the choice pause, a short two to three minute tool you'll hear in every episode, each time with something different to help you pause, notice and choose your next step. These are practical tools drawn from my books and online wellbeing courses, and you can find more details in the show notes.

This is the acceptance pause. Take a slow breath in and a longer breath out. Notice the air moving through your body. The rise of your chest.

the release as you exhale.

Let go of any tension in your shoulders or your jaw.

and feel the support beneath you.

Now bring to mind a recent moment where you felt a strong wave of emotion.

perhaps sadness, fear, anger, or overwhelm.

Notice where it sits in your body.

maybe in your chest, throat or stomach.

and acknowledge it gently.

Rather than pushing the feeling away, imagine you're standing beside it, giving it space to move.

You might picture it as water meeting the shore.

powerful but gradually softening as it reaches the sand.

As you breathe, quietly say to yourself.

This is what I'm feeling right now and that's okay.

Notice how it feels to allow the emotion to be there.

without judgement or resistance.

Acceptance isn't about liking what's happening.

It's about soothing what's painful, making room for what's really happening.

and creating the strength to live a life that matters.

Take one more steady breath.

As you breathe out, imagine the wave becoming a little smaller. Still present, but gentler.

as you stand grounded and open to what comes next.

carry this sense of openness with you into whatever matters most today. Perhaps a conversation, a small act of care.

or a moment to pause again later.

Lee (25:04)
And if we on to survivorship and that journey through recovery, what marks that for you? were there changes? we've talked a little bit how you've approached that initial wave and the strong emotion and probably shock as well the very then coming strength,

purpose,

connection with people as you go What has helped find Darrelle the version now as you've developed since. been involved in that do you think that's been helpful and what's been difficult?

Darrelle (25:40)
post cancer diagnosis probably understands better the phrase self-compassion. think I would have said that goodness knows how many times and kindness to yourself, goodness knows how many times I would have said that to a patient prior to my own diagnosis and meant it.

but now I really understand it. Returning to work was probably one of the ways that crystallized that a little bit in that I had to go really slowly and work looked really different after cancer diagnosis. I was incredibly lucky that the practice that I had worked out for a long time really worked with me to think of ways I would be beneficial to them, but also allowing me to work in a way that gained my confidence They helped me to feel valuable returning to work and I wasn't sure that I would be. And I just did that in really small steps and not just hours, but actually the type of work I was doing. I did that in really small steps.

because of the side effects that cancer has left me with, was thinking, what did it take away? my answer was gonna be it took away spontaneity, but it did in some places, but not in others. So I spend a lot more energy planning around my symptoms now. But then actually, if I get a day, which I never know which day it's gonna be, but if I get a day where actually unexpectedly, I haven't done the planning, but I feel great, then I can be spontaneous. So a little bit more flexibility around my thinking as well.

Lee (27:18)
flexibility sounds so important. there it was essential for being able to come back to work in a way that felt productive and positive and rebuilding confidence. And also to recognise that coming back in that way, you're still able to contribute amazingly well, it just might be not exactly how it was before. And I think we really can embrace that when we're thinking about supporting people to return to work, to be quite creative and flexible, to enable that to happen in way that everybody gains when it's done in that lovely way. And also hearing something about flexibility, about making room, accepting, acknowledging your symptoms that you have, adapting life to make it workable for you so that you do look after yourself when you have symptoms, you respond to them in really helpful ways. But not being limited by an idea about what they are. but actually recognizing actually today I feel good and I feel like this would be a great day to try this or to do that and having a willingness to try something different on those occasions rather than getting a bit sometimes we can get a bit blocked I think by a routine of what we're used to.

Darrelle (28:25)
Yeah, I think you're totally right. Blocked is a great word. I think that when I started that journey returning to work, I thought work was gonna look one way, or I thought there was only one way to do work. Actually, if you had said to me five, 10 years ago that how I'm working now, or what I'm doing now, was where things were going to be. I would have been thrilled I feel like I'm in the most exciting part of my career yet and would I have got here without my cancer diagnosis? I'm not sure because it changed my thinking so much It was hard, it was a journey, it still is a journey, but it changed my thinking about things so much, it's like a door got opened that I didn't even know that door existed. And going through that door, there's just so many more options and it's unleashed more thinking for me. And I think going through cancer, it took away a block that I didn't know was there.

Lee (29:24)
What do you think that block was what is it that you're doing that is different now that feels like you're able to go through that door?

Darrelle (29:32)
because of the restrictions that I had to work with with my side planning and symptom control and all of those things that I thought that I was narrowing down options, but actually, didn't stop me, I didn't see it as right, that's it, it only works like this. I thought, what's the work around here? There's a work around here, what is it? and I thought, you've done a work around there, what's another work around? Is there another one? and it just kept building from there. And there were times where,

the workaround didn't work out and you get a setback and you think that was that was silly that one didn't work out mate you know but actually somehow I didn't catastrophize it I thought right well we'll tweak that let's try again let's try a different thing here and see if that works better and and it seems to be paying off

Lee (30:19)
So a real sense of creativity and being willing to experiment and being curious about, wonder what happens if we try this or I wonder what this would look like. And so I don't know that we can always know, especially when life has fundamentally changed in many ways. uncertainty is a big part of navigating after any health diagnosis because there are new ways of living that we haven't had before. So we do need to find ways through uncertainty.

I think creativity and experimentation and being willing to try feel really important actually when we are navigating change because otherwise we do get blocked, we get stuck because we're thinking about life how it used to be and perhaps even mourning or feeling just a real sadness or resistance to the fact that life is changed and that can get in the way of finding some of these new opportunities that actually, as you say, it's taken life in a direction that you're actually really

excited by.

Darrelle (31:16)
Yeah, I was saying to somebody only today, was taking my son to school recently changed school I've been doing that route for the last six weeks, no problem at all. And then all of a sudden, my head was really busy and I had a few things on my mind and I started taking him to the old school. And I suddenly thought, what are you doing? We're not going there, that's not where we want to go. need to change route. a bit like change is that...

you can start going to the new place but every so often when you've got a lot on it might be that you default to Darelle that's been doing that thing for 20 years but that's okay the main thing is to recognise that's not where you want to go you know where you want to go so what's the route to change get back onto the route where you want to be and the sooner you do that the better because otherwise you'll end up in the wrong place

It's a bit like that navigating after cancer well, it was for me it might not be the route that you've always traveled. There might be another route and just figuring that out really.

Lee (32:18)
And maybe being kind to yourself if you take the odd turning you end up down a dead end or going the wrong way and you think, I'm in a traffic jam now. I can't turn around for we can beat ourselves up for that. Or we can say, OK, not ideal. everybody does it sometimes. And actually, it is part of exploring, if you think about trying to drive to a new part of town, that probably comes with the territory. So it is recognizing that this is just part of newness, of change, and it doesn't mean I've done something wrong.

Darrelle (32:49)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, carrying on that analogy everybody has to travel the same route. And I think that's one of the things that I struggled with a little bit. During the first year, I would my diagnosis there was some amazing 
cancer thrivers, cancer survivors doing incredible things. And I wasn't, or I didn't feel I was doing incredible things. And that could be hard. I hadn't had much exposure to social media until I was going through cancer. And suddenly my feed would be filled with people who were in different parts of their journey.

and were doing incredible things and I would be coming back from chemo feeling absolutely not incredible and not feeling like I had done incredible things. But actually I started to have a word with myself and say, you know...

this is what they're doing in that moment. You don't know the rest of their day looks like. And also if you don't know what the rest of your journey looks like, this is your part of the journey now, but there might be some other opportunities for you in the rest of your journey.

Lee (33:58)
So it's sometimes easy to compare negatively to others or think we're not doing as well as somebody else who may look like they're doing really well but actually, don't know what's going on under the surface. maybe they've got other challenges going on and perhaps it's just not the right time for you to be doing whatever they're doing. It might not be that that's right for you. it's like you say, we don't have to drive the same route.

we may not be going to the same place. We may not want to be going to the same place. We might have a different journey that we're doing. And so actually, it comes back to your own values, I think, that compass, and think, where do I want to go? and our sat nav to wherever feels most meaningful for us today and try and drive there rather than where someone else is going.

Darrelle (34:42)
Totally, absolutely. And there would be so many occasions where who were trying to support me and help me feel validated in my experience would share with me what these other incredible people were doing, but for me in that moment, it was too jarring and it was more than I could handle Later on...

absolutely it was it was very useful to know about those resources but I got very practice at saying thank you that's so helpful when I feel able I will look at that and I think they came to understand that it wasn't that I didn't want their help or the help the kind of help they were offering I just in that moment I couldn't receive it.

Lee (35:23)
So that feels incredibly important to be able to recognise watching that today would be an overwhelm for me. It would take me to a place that is really unhelpful because just about managing with my day to day. I've got symptoms. I'm really tired. been through treatment and I'm coping in the way that's working for me. And so it feels like giving yourself permission to say thank you

that's really accept it in terms of the fact that you're giving it with the care but I also give myself the care and the permission to say I don't think I'm going to watch it right now because it doesn't feel like it's going to lift me it might actually make me feel overwhelmed it might deplete me in some way

Darrelle (36:06)
Yeah, 100 % is that you could, could recognise that feeling that this was going to take away from me rather than give to me in that moment.

Lee (36:15)
we just need to listen some days you might be more able to engage with things than others. And I think we do need to flex that, especially illness where we have fluctuating energy levels, we have symptoms that are changing, there's so much change that how we're going to respond on any given day will not be the same. exactly what you were talking about earlier, flexibility and noticing myself, checking in, having that pause, how am doing right now? What is it that I need to look after myself to keep strong and to keep doing this journey to follow my sat nav and to do what's right for me? And really that today, my kids are my sat nav, and I just need to think about what works for me and them. And that relationship has got to be the priority at this point.

Darrelle (36:58)
I think you're right. think having my children as the focus of things was really helpful keeping things crystallized, Anytime I felt like I was losing my focus and where was the purpose, what was going on, having that very clear focus for things, kept me on course.

Lee (37:16)
You also mentioned self compassion earlier and that you really felt a shift in how you're able to understand it. Could you just share a little bit about how that evolved for you and how you now see self compassion?

Darrelle (37:27)
I love the phrasing, Lee, because it's making me laugh, it's making me think that I'm really good at it now.

Lee (37:35)
I don't think any of us are that good at it though, Darrelle. Honestly, it's like for all of us a work in progress. So, but I think that is the point though, that we are just finding our way and not doing it and then finding it and coming in and out. I think that's the reality of it really is that we don't have it like a solid thing that we're just like, I'm so self compassionate as much as I can have a fleeting moment of it. And actually that's probably as much as I'm able to do right now.

Darrelle (38:02)
Yeah, absolutely. I think it is for me It's that reminder, yeah, just treat yourself with a little bit of kindness here Darelle. there's a couple of people who are very good at pointing that out to me. One is my husband, one is my sister. Just reminding me,

there's some stuff you've been through here. Do you think maybe you're being a bit unkind on yourself? Do you think perhaps you need to just take a pause here and think about things a bit better? And is useful to have them as that sounding board because sometimes we do, we get so excited I get so excited, I get so carried away doing things great, I'm doing so well and let me do this now and let me do that now. And then might have a dreadful day.

with symptoms or feel absolutely shattered not be able to put together where that came from and then either one of those people might just say to me, do you think maybe it might be related to it and you'll, ⁓ yeah, you're right here. So self-compassion for sure, but perhaps you also need a little team around you as well who support you with that

Lee (39:04)
that's so not something that we can easily do alone. our compassion by being supported and by offering that support as well. So it becomes that two-way process we offer kindness, but we also receive it and we offer kindness to ourselves and to others. when we think about care, people sometimes think if I'm caring for myself,

it's like a torch and if I'm caring for myself I've got a big beam of light that's on me and then you're in the dark and then if we flip it I put the light on you and you're lovely lit up and cared about but then I'm totally in the dark whereas for me I try and see it like a lovely night light which is just this warm glow where everybody's getting some light and we're all being cared about by the same light together and then we can all share it we can all support each other through whatever anyone is facing.

Darrelle (39:53)
Lee, that is so lovely. I love that. And as you're talking, it's making me think about how it's changed conversations in our little family unit, but also in our extended family, by recognising that things changed with me, it also changed the conversations and we encourage self-compassion amongst all of us and it really does that little nightlight, I like that idea a lot.

Lee (40:19)
Definitely. Well, Darrelle, thank you so much. It's been such an interesting, insightful conversation. And I just want to really thank you for coming here and sharing your experiences today.

Darrelle (40:30)
No, not at all, Lee. As I say, it's tremendous privilege, but I actually found it so helpful to listen to your reflections. It's got my brain thinking even more.

Lee (40:40)
So to finish, you could leave us with one or two Choice Space takeaways, so that's some small points that you'd like people to take away from this conversation. do you think those would be?

Darrelle (40:52)
I think the first one would be take the help that's offered to you. And if it turns out that's not for you, that's fine, but you won't know unless you take it. there's nothing to lose by taking whatever help is offered to you, take it. The team is much stronger than the individual. The second, I think, is

recognizing the strength of your own journey. people's journeys might look exactly the same through the little lens that you can see it through but it's very unlikely that it's exactly the same and whatever journey you're on and however you go about it that is your journey not anybody else's.

Lee (41:33)
I love those. And I think I'd build on some things you've also said today, is to find connection with people. And it may getting support from the people that you love and care about and who care about you. It may also be with people you don't know very well and finding a sense of shared experience with people on your ward, people who are going through a similar journey to you and just finding moments to connect, listening to the piano, together

is a moment of connection. might not even need to be talking to do that, but actually you can just be there together listening. And that's just a moment where you're tuned in together and feeling supported. So I think that's hugely powerful. And the other thing I'd like to draw on is you said find moments of small joy. So back to that piano or anything else really, just something small. I'm having a coffee and actually at this moment I'm able to enjoy it today, even if sometimes I can't or

I'm just sitting here and it's quite peaceful and I can look out the window and I can see a sky that looks quite beautiful. So it might be very, very small things, but I think it's just trying to find those we can appreciate something so it's managing threat through finding an appreciation in the world,

Darrelle (42:42)
Yeah, excellent advice.

Lee (42:44)
Thank you so much, Darrelle, for a wonderful conversation. And thank you for listening to the Choice Space podcast. I hope this conversation has offered a little more room to pause, breathe and find your own way forward.

We've linked some ways that you can connect with Darrelle in the show notes. And if today's episode has been helpful, please download, follow, and share with someone who might value the space as well. I'd love to have you with me for the next episode. Until then, take care and keep making space for what matters most.