Hearts In Transition S2 Episode 2w/ Trans R.A.G.E

I caught up with Lee from R.A.G.E to speak all things trans R.A.G.E, their upcoming prom, projects in the past and their own journey with their gender!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone. This is take two of starting to start this podcast because I'm recovering from the flu and I am coughing like a mad woman. But this is the Hearts and Transition podcast. We're back in the Voices studio and we have another guest this week. I hope you enjoyed my episode re um and some of the footage we got. There's no footage today, um, which is still fine because the video editing is like nothing I've experienced before. By God, it's very difficult. But I'm sure that we will um I'll get used to it eventually. But yeah, anyway, we're interviewing someone from uh collective organization page. That works, yes. Yeah, called Rage. Um this is a new kind of segment I'm doing in the podcast because it's great to hear stories, but it's also great to hear things. Um to hear stories and things that people are doing for the community. And yeah, I'm here with Lee.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Hi.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

This is Lee.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

I went so high then. Um hi, I'm uh I knew I was gonna do that. It's the hospitality in me. Uh I'm Lee. I'm yeah, I'm the uh co-founder and head curator of Rage and also the uh di uh one of the co-directors of East London Pride.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Ooh, oh are you? I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Oh yeah, um that as well. We're kind of like um East London Pride. What's East London Pride? I've never heard of it. East London Pride is new. East London Pride used to be City Island Pride for the last six years. Um I got involved in it because it happens in the bar that I work, funnily enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh sick.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Um and um, you know, I'm a I'm a big queer activist. And we yeah, we uh formed as East London Pride in December. We run events all through the year with the queer community. Um but our main focus right now is um the trans community. A lot of our um there are um five directors, a lot of us are um non-binary or queer or trans, and uh with everything happening politically within the trans community right now, that's our main focus.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

But it's really fun. But yeah, um So when did it start? So it officially, I mean we officially have sent off our COC paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Um about two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So what's CSC you're gonna have to do?

SPEAKER_03 2:09

CRC is a charity.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Oh, cool, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

I'm not in charge of paperwork. I'm I'm uh Is it for like funding?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

It's for funding.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

It's basically uh we're collaborating with like Tower Hamlets Council, they gave us some funding for our event in December. So it happens primarily in Canning Town, but the aim is to have an event in every borough of East London. So we're collaborating with For Escape Pride um for June. So our June our oh yes, June. June is our summer pride event. Uh it's really fun. We're gonna have like drag brunch and uh dances, it's a super fun event. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Where is that?

SPEAKER_03 2:47

So Canning Town. Oh, Jim Canningtown. Oh yeah, that's the lockdown room in Canning Town is kind of the base, so that's where I work. Um and yeah, I'm the I think I'm the art curate head curator, and um so last December we bought our Trans Rage exhibition to East London Pride um and we had we got to show it, which was really exciting because we had Trans Fest with So Rage is a company I run with my business partner Sunny. Um and Sunny, they're amazing. I love them so much. Um and they um they took over running the whole exhibition for me because I was really, really ill.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Oh yeah, this is the art exhibition.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

It was the it was the art exhibition too.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Did you did we meet that night in the cranadelate? Did you go to the canadelate afterwards? I met someone who would run who was part of this air thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

No, I mean a lot of people went afterwards. I just wasn't there.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Because then they came to the Canadella because I met someone who was going doing this trans rage art thing and they came up to the booth and I was like, maybe not doing it, but Well, yeah, so the the trans rage art, so I'm just the head curator of the exhibition, so I basically put it all up.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

So how the exhibition works is we do an open call. Oh, I see. We've done three exhibitions now.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Oh five, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

And then we kind of run like public programming events around it. So we did uh like a collaborative cinema screening with my generation, we did Safic Speed Dating, we talked about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Pick up Tori, Up Sick Legend.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Um and and uh we what else did we do? I should know this. Oh, I hosted a bingo night because I like talking, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Um could it you do all the rhymes?

SPEAKER_03 4:23

I did I no, I kind of tried to like make up gay ones as I went.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

But after you've done like so many rounds and then you keep on like because you start again with all the numbers, I didn't want to keep like saying the same rhymes. And then it kind of became like a call and response thing with the audience where they started like coming up with good rhymes for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really fun, and um I was actually at uh um um uh like a lesbian event two Wednesdays ago with um my god, I should know. They're a really great organization. Um Rebel Dykes.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Oh yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Um and the Dike March people.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Dylan Dylan! Yeah. So Dylan was at Dylan's gonna come on this podcast, I need to. Yeah, you gotta get Dylan. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Dylan was at the bingo night, and then Dylan comes up to me and they organise the whole thing, and it was Dylan's birthday.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Oh, that's top.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

They come up to me and they're like, Oh my god, you're the trans rage person. And I was like, That's so cool! That I'm the trans rage person.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Sorry guys. Dying here. Oh, that's so lovely.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

I like being identified as the trans rage, it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, it's nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

But yeah, I mean, trans rage was born in um in the lockdown room.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

So Oh no way, was it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

It was born in a when was that? May. So we formed. So what happened is it's kind of an embarrassing story. I guess I have to tell it. Yeah, um, no, because it's Harry Potter related. It's really awkward.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

It's embarrassing as I just saw a poster in King's Cross station on the way here, and I was just like, boo. Honestly, I won't say Harry Potter. Yeah, don't say her name.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

But we if she tweets at me though, I know I've made it. Yes. Um we we were at this, so me and Sonny were at our friend's like leaving drinks, and he was leaving to go work at the Harry Potter studios as a dancer. And um the rumour is when he did his induction, they did pronouns, so ha ha ha ha ha um, but he was like, Well, I'm gonna leave, so we'll have like a Harry Potter themed leaving drinks where everyone came in um their house colours, and me and Sunny were like, We love Ross, so we will go.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

You love Ross?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Ross was the name of the guy leaving, we love Ross, so we'll go.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

But ah so um and the EHRC ruling had like just happened like that week maybe, so we were feeling very um tender about it. And um and yes, so we go to this party and we're a few drinks in and we're a little bit angry about everything, and being reminded everyone's kind of awkwardly not talking about Harry Potter, even though everyone's in house colours.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And so how did the house colours work? Were you wearing robes?

SPEAKER_03 7:08

No, we were just we I was just I'm half full puff. So I was wearing like grey and yellow.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Oh, okay, fab. Um I get you.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah, so we like had to come and I had loads of ties, so I bought different like ties in different colours for everyone, so they could wear like the colour of their house or whatever. It was very loose, we were just it was a somewhat of a loose theme. But we um yeah, so Sunny goes, I'm so angry, and I was like, I'm really angry. And they were like, Wouldn't it be good if there was an art exhibition of like angry trans pupil? And I was doing my masters at the time at Central St. Martin's in art curation and like critical theory. Um, and I was like, That's a great idea. And then like two days later, Sunny texts me and goes, Hey, what if we like actually did it? What if we actually got together and put on this exhibition? And I was like, It's kind of a great idea, actually. So at first it was just gonna be really chill. We were gonna get like a couple of trans artists that we know, we were gonna do it in the back of the pub I uh worked in. It was very kind of like we'll just test this thing out, test out the waters. But then we started kind of posting about it. We made like an Instagram, and Chat's Palace just kept on like liking everything we were posting.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Not as me.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah, and we were like, okay, we'll we'll bite. So we kind of slid into their DMs and we were like, hey, like very formally. Sunny likes to do everything like very formally and properly, and I'm always forgetting the email signature. And so Sunny was like, Hey, like, journalists. So we went for a meeting, and we're in this meeting, we're getting this view of this, like, this tour of this gorgeous venue. So I put at Homerton Hospital where I was born.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

What's Chats venue? So is it like a pub?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Is it a it used to be a there doesn't Chats Palace, Mark, don't hate me. Um Mark is the director. Um so it it was it it's uh it used to be a public library. But it's used to be a public library. It's got these beautiful like columns out front.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Um it looks like it looks like an old kind of looks like a mini British museum. It's really, really cool. And it's actually looks like a palace. Yeah, exactly. And it's like a community building. Okay. And they have an upstairs and a downstairs, but it's actually a really historic queer venue. So for back in the like 80s and 70s, they would make like protest signs for like marches, they had International Women's Day events, all of these kind of amazing things they did within the community. And then it kind of because it's kind of somewhat council affiliated, it kind of like fell into disarray a little bit. It was just kind of hosting like tea nights for like old people and stuff. There wasn't really anyone giving it much direction. And um and then it was starting to get revamped, and then they bought in I think in the early 2000s they had like a save Chat's Palace campaign. And then it was and then Mark came in about a month before they'd we'd sit into their DMs. And Mark is this amazing kind of like queer art curator. They used to work at like National Trust buildings, um, and they're very, very cool. Very cool. Um, and also a nudist in their own time. Um which is kind of cool. Um I'm not, but they were in like the back of a I'm sure this is fine saying this, but they were in question, yeah. They were in the back of like a channel four like travel documentary.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Oh my god, naked.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Like as a nudist, no, but with like a as a nudist naked, naked naked person. Yes, naked person, but they were like it was like on a nudist yoga retreat and they had like a really conveniently placed tree.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Oh, who did?

SPEAKER_03 11:03

The like the in the in the video, yeah, because they obviously couldn't have like Mark's member on show. Member. I'm a lesbian, I'm not interested in that. Um and yeah, and uh Mark yeah, so but Mark's great, um but me and Sunny this whole time are like when's the shoe gonna drop? When are they gonna be like, oh it's gonna cost you like two thousand pounds to put on the event here? And Mark's like, we can put pink and blue lights out on the columns and really pitching it to us, and we were like, okay, okay, okay, when's it gonna happen? And there's this big black box theater in the back, it's really cool. And then I just went, So how much is it gonna cost? Kind of like panicking. I just kind of had to blurt it out. And Mark was like, Oh no, it's free. And we were like, What? And so me and Sunny like rega like got ourselves back together, uh, regained composure, finished the meeting with Mark, walked round the corner, jumped up and down like maniac.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

We were so excited, and then we were like, Oh my god, this is this is a big thing, we're gonna do this right. So we put out an open call, and then we went around um the best place we went, uh where we found most of our artists, we went to London Queer Mart, which had really unfortunately shut down now. London Queer Mart was up until incredibly recently a art market um run by this amazing artist called Bo and it had about 150 stools. It was in Deptford Lounge.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Oh, it was in South East. Yeah. But I don't know about it. Exactly. I'm an East Girl, I never leave East. Exactly. Or North.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

I don't want to go. I'm from I was born in Hackney. I was like, I don't want to go to South London, and Sunny was like, we're gonna go to South London. I was like, please don't make me go to South London. I was like, I don't know, do they even yeah? I was like, do they even have trains there? How do I even do I have to get a boat? Like, how does this work? I have to cross a bridge? I don't want to do that. Sunny was like, we're gonna go and it's gonna be good, and it was very good, it turns out. Nice. So we um yeah, we got on a boat.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Did you get the boat down?

SPEAKER_03 13:03

No, we got a DLR.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

You didn't get the Uber, can't you? The Uber boat.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

You can get an Uber My Um my friend's boyfriend actually worked on a boat on the Thames. No way. So I could have maybe gotten his boat.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

I was living poppers, I always be looking out at the boats going down south-east.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

He does that like he's like a nautical engineer and he does those like London tours. Yeah, he's proper. Um adult man in his 30s. Um here here's a house with my friend. It's disgusting. Um but um absolutely right because they lived with me and then they left me to go buy a house together.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Damn. It's happened to me for two. I've lived with like two people who've who have been good pals of mine, and then they all left to live with their partners. And you know, I'm fine. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

I don't need anyone, I don't need you, it's fine, I'll continue being single and focusing on my work.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Um Sunny's like, I need to get you laid, and I'm like, shut up. I I do fine. Uh I go to lesbian events and just make friends.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

What's your favorite events?

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Um, I really like community building events. So um I love to dance, like I do love to like go out to like a big DJ set. Oh. Um, I know someone who runs events at Fold.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Kind of.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Like I know Fold's intense someone else. For someone who doesn't like doesn't love to dance that much, Fold's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

When you get in for when you get when you get in somewhere for free, true, do you gotta go?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Um, yeah, like a guy at my work, his like childhood best friend, he's like an adult man in his like forties, I want to say. I'm worried he's in his fifties, but if I say that he'll always go younger. Yeah, yeah, go younger. 40s, um 32. Um no and he um his like childhood best friend runs events at Fold, so we go there sometimes. And then I end ended up accidentally behind the DJ booth because I went through the wrong door at one point because we got like backstage tickets.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Oh sick, which is really fun, yeah. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Occasionally when that happens, but they really they really pat you down at security there.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

In folds, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

I was like, I'm coming from work, like they were like, What's this? I was like my asthma pump. Like please don't take that from us. Stop.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

No, they're intense, but I feel like they're well trained and they're like respectful and stuff. They're pretty respectful.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Well, because it's a lot of lot of queer events there as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

They've got on fold as well, which is fold. I used to go to fold a lot back in the day, but now I um I don't know, it's just I'm I I'm struggling. I DJ a lot these days. And when I'm not DJing, I kinda like to rest. Yeah, and also fold is like very loud. I I love fold, but it's very loud. And this is so is this old of me? It's just so loud in there.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

It can be very loud.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I feel like it's so loud. I'm like, Jesus Christ, like how you can't be in there for like prolonged every time I leave my ears, I'll be wearing earplugs and my ears are just ringing.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Have you got those like um what are the ones that sit in your ears? Loops, loops. Yeah, I have loops.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

I lose them more than anything in the world. Fair enough. I go through I have them, but I lose them every time I go out basically.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

They have like tiny ears, so they don't really work for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh, fair. You can get different sizes though.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Oh I don't know that I didn't I haven't looked into it deeply. Oh, fair, because if you get them I don't have problem hearing in clubs yet. Yeah. I'm just I'm 26, it's fine, I'm a little baby.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Honestly, but like if you're not clubbing that much, you're grand, but but like it is every time you hear a ringing in your ears, um, that's like hearing loss. And it's crazy because like that's that the education around um hearing loss in the club industry is not enough. It is not enough. So yeah. Anyway, we're going off on a tangent. Um we you were you were talking about getting the boat down south.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Oh yeah, so we went to um London, Queer Mart. Um and we m just basically went round with these flyers to every kind of like it's old school, I love that gender non-conforming seeming artist and we're like with flyers, like physical flyers with physical flyers.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That's so funny, like delivering them to the house to like the newspapers they used to chore up people's house. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

We were old school. Um and we went out and handed them out, and we would um Sunny is so good at the pitch. Sonny would be like, Hi, we're um doing a exhibition called Trans Rage and we'd love to bring you on board, blah blah blah blah blah, and I'd be like, and like really fantastic and eloquent and like captivating, and they're like really tall and gorgeous, and they wear like the most amazing clothes, and then they'd leave me alone for a little bit and I'd be like, Hello, trans rage, art yay! Please. I was like, Are you trans and you angry? But have you made a painting about it?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Oh, what's the put it in our show? And is it just paintings or do you have um painting, sculpture?

SPEAKER_03 17:45

So um the first one which we did in July um was everything. So we had sculpture pieces, we had s some ceramics by this artist called um Moss, which I like really loved. Um actually Are you an artist yourself? I am in my own free time casually.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Um like I can paint, I went to art classes all the time as a kid. That's why it was Sunny.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Pardon? What about Sunny?

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Sunny actually did ha does have a piece in our show, but Sunny is also not traditionally an artist. That's kind of well, that's a really big part of the story. Um that I forgot about. The reason one of the reasons that we thought about an art exhibition was because Sunny had made this piece that day. The um the mayor of London had made these postcards that are like loved and welcome.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

And um the building that Sunny works in, uh which is being the Shashville Ballet building, because it's uh it's sponsored by the Mayor of London, had all these postcards. And they are very lovely, they're actually quite quite nicely designed. But and it's all about like welcoming immigrants into the country and refugees and everything. Um but Sunny was very, very angry after the um the ruling and kind of ripped it up, stuck it down with some tape, like electrical tape that was just behind their desk, and wrote What About Trans People over it. And um they showed me that and I was like, we could do an art show.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah, it's gonna be powerful.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

So it kind of became the central piece for the first show. Um since then I've made riso prints of them. Um try to say rizzo prints are like screen printing with a computer, that's the best way you can put it. Like there's a special Japanese printer that my university had. And when I was at university I just printed out as much stuff as physically possible because it was so much cheaper than getting it done elsewhere. Um so riso printing it c comes out looking like a screen print.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Oh five, I see.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Um but it's in a printer and you have to kind of like print one colour by time and then layer the colours up and there's a different density. It's quite fun. It's really fun actually. Um but it's it's kind of also complicated and the printing bit is a bit boring, but they're like figuring out what colours and stuff is fun. Um but yeah, we uh yeah, so we went to we got all of these responses from London Queermart and we met Bo, who was the organiser of London Queermart, and we were like, if we do well at this, we want to work with Bo again. And we got the chance to for Trans Rage Fest. So we did the Trans Rage art exhibition in July, and that was just really an art exhibition um and we just we had like a drag night with um Cell Sinclair, who is the founder of East London Pride. Oh cool, okay. Um who is it? Fid Sinclair? Cell Sinclair. I thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I was like Fizz is the influential girl. No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

So um Cell's just one of the people I know from City Island. Oh but they're fantastic. I think they they work in like IT or something. They're one of those people that has like a really normal day job and then just like selling pet food and then they have like a really cool after hours job.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

They're like a gorgeous jazz singer.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Oh fat.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah. So we um oh we had some performance art which was really fun, and then we project it, we filmed it, and then we projected it for the rest of the run of the exhibition. But what was really wonderful about it, I felt really I I s I always feel weird saying this, but we had these um people come to the show and cry. It's a very strange feeling to feel happy about making someone cry.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Because you could tell that they were really touched by a lot of the art that they saw. Um, there was this piece by Eve Goodwin that was one that made everyone cry. It was these two like um sheets of white paper um and they like written out kind of like a manifesto on like their experiences of being kind of non binary, and then there was these really cute, cool like artworks. A lot of it I think a lot of the feedback we got was that the artists were really excited that that we were giving them an opportunity to feel angry because They found that a lot of exhibitions specifically for trans people were all about trans joy. Trans joy is really important. But um I'd read this essay by Susan Stryker called My Words to Victor Frankenstein, and it was actually given to me by E.J. Scott, who's the curator of the Museum of Transology.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

That's a that that's fucking through, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah, well they had it at the Letheby for it at tours, but they had it at Letharby Gallery. Oh, Torres, okay. It was the most successful show the Letherby Gallery at King's Cross has ever had to date.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Oh I didn't I wanted to go for ages and I didn't go. It was so good.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

I think it's going to Brighton.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Oh Fab.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

So they've done it at the Pavilion in Brighton, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Oh cool, okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

And then also I think it might go to Bristol at some point.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Fab. It's a place I've never been. Maybe it's an opportunity. EJ's amazing. Really?

SPEAKER_03 22:52

He's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Um is he an artist?

SPEAKER_03 22:56

He's uh he's an art curator, so he puts on the shows and he award like a an award-winning curator, like genuinely fantastic. But he's one of those people with a really big personality, very short, and he's got like bright pink hair.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Oh, cool, okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

And he's so passionate, and he's always in like kind of a version of like a boiler suit or like jungle. I love it. And it's just so like um I think he's from New Zealand and he's so he's got such a strong accent, he's so lovely, and then he'll be talking about something like really intense. Um but yeah, he's fantastic, and he wrote a kind of I think he wrote it. There's this document for the exhibition that was called like curating for trans audiences. Okay. And so we used that to curate uh the show that I did. Um just so that like because there's higher levels of neurodivergence within trans communities, there's um we didn't want to overstimulate people, so we had a day that was specifically um uh like a reduced sensory day so that um people who because I can be quite I can be quite full on and quite happy going up to people and being like, hey, what do you think of my show?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

I do a lot of translators all my event. I'm just asking everyone how they're getting on.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Like, do you like it? How did you find us? What did you do? What are you doing here?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Like Oh yeah, yeah, I was you're asking me.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

I was like Tori, Instagram, yeah. No, I'm just I'm and on that day I was like, I will have a day where I won't go up to anyone, but I will like sit there and if people want to come and find me and ask me questions, they can, but I won't specifically ask anyone. I won't make anyone and so we had, yeah, people and we had um headphones out for people in sensory toys.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Um and but yeah, so there's this essay by Susan Stryker called My Words to Victor Frankenstein, and in it they say, I'm gonna misquote it, but they say like um they talk about like rage as being like part of their blood, and it's rage bred by the necessity of existing in exter external circumstances that work against my survival. So it's that idea of like I'm angry because society is not allowing me to exist. Yeah. Um it was written in like the 90s, Susan Stryker's a trans activist. Okay, I've never heard of her, yeah. Feminist scholar. Oh fowl. She's awesome. Um but the whole essay is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Where are gonna find that? Or any listener here?

SPEAKER_03 25:21

You can just Google it. Just Google My Words to Victor Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

My words to Vict.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

My words to Victor Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Um, by Susan Stryker.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Um it's a must-read.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

It's easy to read. It's like seven pages. Oh, grand, cool. I can do that. Just about. You can um you can use a free uh speechify subscription to listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

What speechify?

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Speechify, I so I I have ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Has like ad.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

This is an ad. No, I just have ADHD, it just reads it back to you.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Oh, cool, okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

So you can I think I got like a free subscription with university or something. Or like a discount. Um but yeah, it just basically reads the it makes it into like a an audiobook. Audiobook feed.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Cool, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Um so when I was doing like my thesis and I was having to read like loads of text. Yeah. It was helpful to that is helpful, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Cause like I tried to get audiobooks before, but I would just my attention span, like, it just goes. I'm like trying to listen to them and then I'm like because like I listen to podcasts going to sleep. So when I put it on, I just like it conks me out. So I feel like now whenever I try listening to stuff, I just like either think start thinking about something else or I fall asleep.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

So Yeah, see what I would do is I would listen to the audiobook and then read along at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Oh sorry, that's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

When I no, just when I had to like really pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

When it was for like writing my master's thesis. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't have a choice.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

What's your master's in?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

I write so my master's was called M-A-C-C-C, so it's culture, criticism, and curation. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Also Slate Masters, to invite you.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

I graduate on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Oh, oh you graduated or graduated?

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Well, I like my ceremonials on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Congrats, it's so exciting. Where's that?

SPEAKER_03 27:08

It's at the Royal Festival Hall. I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

It's on the South Bank.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Oh fuck!

SPEAKER_03 27:13

It's like that big, kind of modernist building on the South Bank. Damn. It's right by the um IMAX.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I know that, yeah. Yeah. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Yeah, it's really fun. And uh we got EJ taught on our course, which is how I met him. Oh, okay, which he did like a whole week um just as the EHRC ruling had come out, which was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

So he was like um they were having like discussions with him in emails about whether or not he could use on-site toilets.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

And he's been Is EJ well what is EJ trans man?

SPEAKER_03 27:47

He's he's a trans man and he but he transitioned years ago. Like 10-15 years ago. Um actually in the Museum of Transology, he has it grossed me out at first, I'll be real. Um but he had a jar with his breast tissue in when he got his top surgery.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Oh had a what?

SPEAKER_03 28:08

When he got his top surgery, he had a jar with his breast tissue in it.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Like after?

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah, like afterwards, like boobs in a jar. And when he told us when he got the because he's a curator and curators are basically hoarders. Okay. Um when he had his surgery, he asked the nurse, like, can I take everything from the room? So he took all the sheets and the pillows and the pillowcases and the robe he wore. He took like everything and then he hung it all up in the Museum of Transology.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Oh no way.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Um there's also a cool thing about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

What with the breast tissue? What happened there?

SPEAKER_03 28:43

I don't know how he managed to keep the breast tissue. He kept the breast tissue in pr in in like a preservation jar. And it's in the It's in the m and then there's a photo of him like post-surgery, like with his scars, and he has like um breast tattoos, and they did a really beautiful job of like matching it kind of back up.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

No way.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

But you can see on the the boob, like the shape of the where the tattoo was, and you're like, like, cause it took me a second, because it took me a second, and I was like, oh, that's human things in jars, I don't like that. Like, I'm lifelong vegetarian, yeah, don't like meat. I was like, that's weird, and then I was like, oh my god, that's that's actually so cool as like an artifact.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

It's crazy. Yeah. I've never heard of that, I've never heard of that done before. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

There was another person who collected all their testosterone tubes and labelled them like one to whatever.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Um, and then put them in this, like, EJ put them in this beautiful glass cabinet and it showed like how much like tea someone does.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Oh my god, really? I actually have no idea about that. Yeah, I think. I don't want anything to do with tea.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

I mean I've I've thought about going on tea. Okay. Um, but I've got other priorities currently. Yeah. Um like, I don't know, yeah, other I've just got I'm just busy. Yeah. It's one of those things. I was at this um this bar the other day and I was um having a drink outside and I just heard these like kind of group of queer people and someone went, Yeah, I've just started tea and I was thinking, and I was like, I j I actually want to ask someone a question about this. I jumped in and I was like, How is it? And they were like, What? And I was like, How is how is tea? How's it going? Like, how's it working? Because I'm thinking about my voice and I'm thinking about things, and they and you know, they were fortunately also a little bit drunk, so it wasn't weird.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

I feel like trans people are like always different queer community in general. Queer community appreciates Among each other, it's different when there's like someone outside of the queer community coming and asking you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

It's like well, like because with my pronouns, I'm non-binary, but I'm she they, but I'm she they for a very specific reason. Like I'm she they because it's so pretentious and political, but basically I've inhabited a female body for so long and I have so many experiences of like oppression intrinsically linked to that experience, but I um kind of I wrote my thesis on the political power of female rage and I feel I feel female rage, but I don't feel female.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

I don't know if that may like it's it's not it's almost about like solidarity and like knowing I've had those experiences but so I don't mind my friends calling me whatever pronoun they like. I don't like strangers calling me she though, which I know I can't really police.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Um I much prefer if you don't know me that well to go by they.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

But if if you're like if you kind of understand why I s I still have that in my pronouns, I use she. Um it will inevitably change, as it always does. Like everyone's pronouns I think are I mean I'm I'm probably more gender fluid than I am non-binary.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Um but And when did you realize that you were like when you had different feelings about your gender?

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Um kind of always so I had a really good talk with someone at Trans Rage Fest, actually this older trans woman, and she summed up the best way. She said when you kind of officially kind of come out as whatever, so I officially came out in like beginning of May last year. Um that's when I changed my name, it's when I changed my pronouns. Um when I officially came out, but yeah, she said when you l look back on your life, when you come out as like trans, you look back on your life with like a flashlight and you see things that were maybe like weird when you're a kid that actually makes so much sense once you rationalise your gender identity. And so there was this little thing that I used to have so much shame about, and now I'm like, oh my god, of course I did that. Like I used to tell people I had a penis anivagrina. No, like as a little kid, like on the playground in primary school, I was like, Yeah, I have a dick anivagina, like what?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

And how has that received?

SPEAKER_03 33:16

And people were like, You're weird. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, probably. And now I'm like, uh It's the flashlight thing, like you look back and you go, Oh, that's why I was saying that. Yeah. Or like I used to I really tried to be feminine. I really would like I had long hair and I would try and wear like booby tops when I got, you know, when you're like 15, 16, and you're like, I'm gonna be, you know, a girl and I'm gonna be feminine and I'm gonna have my boobs out or whatever. And then and all my friends would like, and I I was raised by a very feminist mum who was like embraced with sexuality, and I was always gay, like that wasn't up for debate. But um I tried bisexuality for a bit, it did not work. Um I'm very sorry to be. Bisexuality is valid, it just isn't for me.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Um I'm really sorry to my ex-boyfriend. He was such a good guy, and that was the problem. It's really hard to dump someone who's just great.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Yeah, I had a girlfriend for five years and I ended up with her well, we weren't ultra compatible, but also then I had to go like explore my sexuality, you know, when I was like, and my gender obviously. And I was like, this comes a time where you have to just go and look for tears and be queer. Yeah. Some people do it much later in life, or you do it younger in life.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

I'm very glad I did it like younger in life, because Yeah, I mean I think I was probably my when I was in secondary school, one of my friends at the time, she turns to me and she goes, Do you have any crushes on any of the boys in our year? And I was like, No. And she went, Oh, you must be asexual.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

You could never be a lesbian.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

I was like, There's something else that you're missing there. I was like, babe, there there's another thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Also, none of the boys in our class were fit.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Like really?

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Every all the girls dated people like in the year above or the year below, because notoriously we did not have an attractive male book.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

So where did you go to school? Was that in London?

SPEAKER_03 35:21

I went to school in yeah, I went to Stoke Newton secondary school.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Oh nice. I live up by there. I live. I live in like uh Seventh history, it's kind of Hermitage Screen. Or Hermitage Road, like by the warehouse. I live in Forest Gate now.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

That's right by the old spotted dog ground, Clapton C FC. Oh, Clapton.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Oh, Clapton, yeah, yeah. She's wearing are they wearing they she?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

They she'd either. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, Lee is wearing a Clapton um because like I know you know, but like we're not friends. Rough friends, yes. Oh no, we're not we're buddy, it's weird. Yeah, everybody is, yeah, cool. Um, but yeah, Lee is wearing a Clapton FC jersey, which in the trans colours which is gorgeous, but I've played for gold diggers. Uh I'm new to gold diggers, I'm gonna pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

No, gold diggers are great.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Oh, is there a rivalry? I thought they're rivalry. Oh sweet, sweet.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

Cloton doesn't really do rivalry because they just beat everyone.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Yeah, I saw yeah, because I saw you play and it was like a big game this weekend. You played like they played each other like last weekend. And I was like, is this a rivalry? I'm very I'm only new guys and I pulled my quads. I thought they were rivals. Because like I remember I said I played for Golddiggers at um you haul dike rescue and they played this girl played for like a different team, but she was like, You played for Goldigger's boo, and I was like, I can't remember who she played for.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

I don't I was like, is this a thing amongst I think what's beautiful about Clapton is that it doesn't really do that as much. It does because it's football and we can't help it.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Honestly, my first game was the most intense thing in the world. I was like, I was expecting this to be so friendly and then chill. No, not chill No, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

The people who play on the clo the Clapton women's team is intense.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, because you did Clapton did a team or not against the Goldigers after the ban, wasn't it? Where they did Clapton and Goldagers for like in support of trans.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Yeah, so after the so Clapton have been very vocal about the FA ban. So the reason that I know Clapton is my mum um basically years ago started I think when I was maybe 17, um st started a like training camp called Opa open access for women and non-binary people. Um and it because my mum wasn't allowed to play football as a kid growing up because of the FA ban.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

No, wait wait, there's an FA ban on women.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

There's an FA ban on women. No wait. Women weren't allowed to play football. Um and then my mum met this amazing woman called Ellie, and Ellie did play football semi-professionally. Um in I that's a great question. I do not know the answer. I've known Ellie for many years. I don't even know her last name. Mad. But I know, crazy. Um in London somewhere. But um, yeah, there was an FA band for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

But she does does Ellie play semi-professional now?

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Or is it Emmy El Ellie played um?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

But this is this is after the band, obviously. After the band. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

But Ellie, so um Ellie uh Ellie and my mum basically started doing this open access training camp. So it was the idea of my mum is very focused on sports, like pea trauma as something because like PE trauma. Like you know when um when when girls would play or anyone would play sports at school and they just had a really negative experience because of a P teacher, and it's quite a common experience with women and with queer people, with no binary people, with trans people, because you're like an outcast. So I think a great example is we had like an astroturf at our school and all the boys would play football um on the astroturf through lunch. Yeah, but if you if as a girl, if you wanted to walk on that astroturf pitch, you best be the best football player in the world. And I remember I once watched um this girl Rosie, who was the captain of our football team, go on the pitch. In the school, like in the school, yeah. She was the girls' school captain of the football team, and she dribbled from like what she like took the ball at one end, dribbled circles around the boys, and then scored at the other end. It was fucking awesome. Um but my yeah, my mum was like, Oh, you stopped playing football because of sports pee trauma. I um I didn't. I stopped playing football because everyone was so good on my team. The girls' team, my year at school, some of them play for Clapton now. One of them went on to be like in the young England team.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Oh no way, that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

They're like actually amazing football players, they're shit hot, and I was fine. But yeah, Clapton. I was fine. Um, but um, like I like a kickabout, but I wasn't there to be like and they were there to absolutely win the competitive thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, yeah. Um that's pretty me. Quite competitive, but in a healthy way, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Um, and uh yeah, so my mum started and then they started doing it with Clapton, so open access still runs with Clapton, and my and my family is just now like intrinsically knitted into the fabric of Clapton. Like my stepdad, uh he's no longer together with my mum, but it's all fine, it's all Gucci, we're all good. Yeah. Um my stepdad is the assistant coach of the women's team. Okay. Um Brian. Uh and he's the sweetest man on earth.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Go Brian, love that.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Go Brian. But yeah, after the um after the F so Clapton's 100% fan-owned, so they don't have any corporate sponsorship, they do a lot of political activism. Um The Awake It is the Spanish flag of independence.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Oh no way, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Uh which is really cool. And yeah, after the FA ban, they had a lot of trans players on their team, and they so they made a a t-shirt that is the trans flag for the goalkeeper.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Oh no way.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Which is really, really lovely, and so I'm wearing it today.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Oh, that's the goalkeeper on. This is the goalkeeper kit. Oh no way, I'm a goalkeeper.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Yeah, oh my god, you would get to wear this.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

It's really fun.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Um I'll change over a sorry calling this. I forgot I'm actually banned, sure. Yeah.

unknown 41:15

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Never mind. They do five aside games.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Oh yeah, yeah. I think they play I play like I played like five aside, and I've I'm gonna join the A-Side League and Hagerstein.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

You probably play the open access team then.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Oh cool.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

If you play Clapton, you play the open access team.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Oh, cool, nice.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

My mum's retired from doing that now because she's almost 60. And um Did you say she plays her Gold Eagles? No, she plays in the same league. So the open access team play in the same league.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

What do where do they play, do you know?

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Um the Super Five League?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Super Five. Is that is that in Britannia?

SPEAKER_03 41:54

No, it's the one in Mabley Green.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Oh, okay, fair. I haven't played there. I play fives in Britannia. Yeah. Um, but as I said, I played three games and I tore like a muscle in my hip quad area.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

At some point you'll make your way to Mabley Green. I will. And there'll be a loud northern woman standing on the edge of the pitch. Julie.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Julie. Okay, I'll keep an eye for Julie. I hear that, I'm like, short, loud northern woman. Do you look alike?

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Yeah. We look quite alike.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

When so when did you get the mullet?

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Um, the mullet were oh god, maybe two years ago. I was it's kind of bad.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

I was working Did you did you go long hair to mullet?

SPEAKER_03 42:28

No, I went short immediately. Oh okay. I was working as I had like a shag for many years. Like a long, kind of like not quite like a f like not quite committing to a mullet. Oh, yeah. But like between a full fringe and long hair in a mullet kind of in. Oh yeah, I see. Like kind of quite 70s. Yeah. And I was working as a bridal stylist in Shaw Dick and I did not like the vibes there. And so I kind of cut all my hair off.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Oh stop when you're working there. Yeah. They just come in and be like, hello bitches. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

And then they fired me.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

What?

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Yeah, they fired me because they didn't trust me alone with the brides. Wash? Um, which um as someone who m basically uses the word consent in every other sentence absolutely rocked me to my core.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Yeah, it sucked.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

It kind of Did they give a reason?

SPEAKER_03 43:23

That was the reason. And I said, Did I do anything? No, no, they went I went, um, oh we we just don't I said, oh my god, did I do anything? That's terrible. Have I made anyone feel uncomfortable? I feel so terrible.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

And they went, no, there's been no issue with the because I've been getting like good reviews online.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

There's been no issue, there's been no complaints, but we are worried that if a complaint did happen, we wouldn't trust you enough to not to s to be able to support you through it.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

But is that not like an unfair dismissal or is it?

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Yeah, yeah, it's super homophobic. Yeah, that's what that is. Um and I they would when when there were like gay brides in they would put give them to me. They asked me like immediately about my sexuality, like when I first started. And they were all like um they were all straight women, straight cis women.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

I think no one listening had to guess that.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Um and I was like, ah and then um I actually told them always bisexual because I thought it would be safer.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Um and then they would ask me about how lesbian sex worked. What? Which was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

That's all like I was there for three months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Um I was trying to find a job to get out of it. Yeah. Um, I was like, I need to get out of here as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Sounds like good job.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

It was bad, yeah. And then um then uh we had this one day we had this trans bride and she emailed ahead. And she was like, That I've actually just come out as trans. I've never really worn a dr like I'm recently out, I'm pre-transition, I've never worn a like a proper, like a long dress before.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Um I'm gonna come in with my fiance, my like female fiance, we're gonna try and dress it together. Is there any way that we could like have a shared dressing room? I just wanted you to know that I'm you know they and I emailed back and I was I was like, I got this, like this is my shit.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

I was like, I've got you, whatever you need if you want to stop at any point. Yeah, I'm 100% here to support you. Um, whatever I can do to facilitate you, whatever you need, do not be afraid to ask. I am here for you. And then the woman in my office went and I told them about it. I was like, oh, this this this woman's coming in. Um she's trans, she's really nervous. Um, I'm gonna need to like close off. Yeah, like um close off some curtains and like extend a dressing room. And they were like, Okay, oh my god, you're so good with the weird brides. And then they kept on using he pronouns when you when she was there. She actually never showed up, which was unfortunate. But which probably good for her.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Like she would have I would move early in transition.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

I think years to get over like shame and like learn to like be powerful.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

I think she just got nervous and didn't come in.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

But um that's fine. The appointments were free, so like people would not show up quite often. Oh, okay. Um, but yeah, they just kept on being like, oh, is he coming in today? Is he coming in?

SPEAKER_00 46:17

I would like to make it blood well. And I was like, You don't even know them.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

It's like you're going out of your way to be homophobic.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Um, and it made me really angry. Um yeah, I think I'm quite a stubborn person. So when people really want me to be one thing, yeah, I always end up oh, and I think it's unjust.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

I really rebel against it. Um I'm very, very angry about it.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

And you run rage.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

And I run rage now. It's actually my I had a therapist who was like, you need to feel the feeling of anger. So now running rage actually gives me a reason to feel anger.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

So for rage, I just to go back because we only have 13 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

It's not so fast, it's crazy. Seriously, yappin'.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Um so do you fundraise and stuff already, or is it like to give So how rage works is everything so far me and Sunny have paid for out of pocket ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Oh yes, that's a classic experience of rage.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Yeah. Um but because we're not paying venue costs, it's been decently cheap for us. But we sell merchandise at all our events and certain events are ticketed. Um, but we've got a prom coming up on the 31st of March.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

I and the DJ, he's on the podcast. Ian the DJ.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Um we've got uh yeah, so that's so we have like that's done in collaboration with East London Pride.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

And what's the prom? What's happening?

SPEAKER_03 47:37

So we've got Ian playing, we're gonna have a photographer, we're gonna try and do all like classic prom tropes. So we're gonna have a punch bowl. Oh, cool. We're gonna have to spike the punch bowl at some point. We're gonna like, you know, like who was like rum. It's clarifying. It has to be legal. Look, look, we it is uh it has to be a above board in my eyes.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Uh stop.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Um but we've got like discounted tickets for low income. Prom. The dress code, the theme is um like art, fashion is art. Okay. Which is ironically the Met Gala theme.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

I was about to say that.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

I was like, But we had it first. No worries. We decided on it first, and you can check our social media, we promoted it before the Met Gala theme came out. Um so they copied us clearly. People have to know this. It's very important that we did not copy the Met Gala. I can't accuse them.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

So what's the one what's the fancy event that they do every year where they're all like it is the Met Gala, but they they have different themes every year. Oh, do they?

SPEAKER_03 48:43

But the theme this year is like fashion is art.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Oh no way.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

And our theme is like That's crazy. Fashion is art, basically.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

No way, that's mad.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Um but it's just prom like come it the idea is that like if you couldn't you couldn't go to a prom performing your gender identity authentically, come to prom and perform your gender identity authentically.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Oh, that's the sweetest thing I've ever heard in the world. It's the 31st, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 49:05

31st, so it's uh trans day visibility.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I'm in Portugal, which is very, very sad. I would have loved to have come. But also, April 1st is my four-year HRT anniversary. Congratulations! I know, so it's actually funny how it lines up every year. Like 31st Transday Visibility, the first is do you was it intentional? No, I just got I got rushed by I was meant to have my uh endo appointment in March or no in like I think it was May at the time or something, and then I got a phone call being like, Oh, there's been a cancellation, we can see you now. That never happened, that's so exciting. I know, so I got rushed, and then I remember doing it, yeah, April 1st to customer.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

And then yesterday you get bumped up as a headliner by accident.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yes. Lucky's on your side. I honestly thought that was I my friend texted me and she was like, um uh she was just like there was meant to be like when you were in Belgium when you're about to play and then the biggest card ever, and then you got bumped up to the headliner. I was like, Yeah, someone was looking after me to give me that opportunity because that was crazy. So yeah. Someone was looking after and it happened at superstore as well last year when I I was meant to open and then Carly Marks uh she got booked to play repos and we swapped sets, so I I got to close instead of open, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

So all these cool opportunities keep happening, so I'm gonna hopefully it's like us accidentally getting Chat's Palace for free and now we just keep milking it for all we can.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah, but it's good that these things need to be free, like you know what I mean. This community stuff. Like I'm I work in the Queen Adelaide as well, and like they they like I run my storytelling night there and stuff, and all my events they don't charge, so so that's good.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

I do a pub quiz I do charge.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Yeah, but you gotta get paid. I'm gonna get paid. Yeah, no fact.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Well no, I I do a pub quiz um every second Tuesday at my bar and in the new like at lockdown room.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Lockdown room.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Yeah, and I in Canningtown. And I got to be really political at my last one. We did it for International Women's Day. Baby and I was because I usually, you know, it's pop culture and blah blah blah, and then sometimes I'll put a little p political thing in and I kept on being like I did something about um I did like a statistics around that or like a true and false. Like um and one of them I got to put in, I said, uh trans people uh trans women face an advantage in sports, true or false.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

And I know the answer was false. It's fucking false, honestly. My body has gone through so much to this tea blocker.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

So exactly, but there's been like five scientific studies now.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yeah, but it's all ignored because the bigots out there.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Bigots out there.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 51:32

Um I mean I could talk about the Epstein files if you want to talk about trans bigots. Did you read about that?

SPEAKER_00 51:38

The trans stuff. The trans stuff I I try like I saw I actually put up a post on my Instagram like last Thursday on my close friends that I was like, I can't. I just like there's so much negativity and like so much wrongdoing against our community. It's so hard sometimes to like consume it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:53

Yeah, it's really rough. I mean, I a good way to consume it is is it bad to recommend a different podcast, not a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 52:00

No.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

So this is podcast called Behind the Bastards?

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Competition.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

But basically they um it's a history podcast. No, they don't need they don't they don't need me promoting them, they're doing fine. Oh it's cool. Um so they they do it's a history podcast, but they look at bad people in history. Oh. But they did a really good episode on a couple of episode parts on Epstein, and it was kind of everything in the files uh that's not the paedophilia stuff. And obviously they were like, it's really obviously that stuff is really important to talk about. Yeah. But there's a lot of other stuff like how he might have been involved in Game Agay and how he was involved in funding academia like anti-trans academia despite his ver first ever public victim being a trans girl.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

I did I saw something about a trans girl being in them, but I In 2007 she was 16.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Yeah. And they didn't they just the the media mocked her because she was trans.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

But I g you always see like trans people and even television back then and everything, it was all a joke. Like they're always like mocked, you know?

SPEAKER_03 53:05

It was always mocked, it was always a joke. Um because women are a joke. And like anyone who's not a anyone who's not I think that kinda like her. Yeah, there's this really there's this quote I was reading this book called Curatorial Activism. So I consider myself a curatorial activist.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

What does that mean? That's a big word.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Curatorial activism. Curatorial activism is basically putting on essentially putting on exhibitions with an explicitly political aim. Okay. So rage is a curatorial activist business. It's kind of stands for real art generates emotion.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Real art we never we should have said that from the second time.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

We should have said at the beginning. You know, Stunny's gonna shoot me. Um real art generates emotion. R.A.G.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Is that what we call it an acronym?

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Acronym? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

That's what it is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 53:59

Well we can't I'll be honest. We came and we wanted to be called RAGE to begin with, because we our exhibition was trans rage and we wanted to be called RAGE, but then we were like, oh, we we could have it as like standing for something else.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Yeah and then So what is it again?

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Rage or So real art generates emotion.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Oh that's sick, cool.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

But yeah, the idea is like being doing explicitly political exhibitions. So like the Museum of Transology, for example, is a great example of curatorial activism. There was the Women in Revolt exhibition at the Tate uh Tate Britain.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Oh what's the Tate Modern? That's the other one.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Oh yeah, there's there's two. Oh, okay, cool. Clearly, I'm not sure. A contemporary art one. But yeah, so that was like it, you know, it's a feminist art exhibition and it's explicitly like being feminist. Like you could argue the Tracy Emin exhibition currently at the Tate Modern is an explicitly feminist exhibition with explicitly like political aims. Yeah. Um so yeah, curatorial activism is I've always been an activist. I like ran feminist and LGBTQ plus club at school. Oh, I love that. I know me.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

You need to create those spaces.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

It's all about I've always tried to create spaces, and the yeah, the best part about uh the trans rage events are the community building, like just getting to talk to people, yeah, and having people like feedback on things that they enjoyed, watching people cry, watching people really like take in things. There was this one piece, and I'm really sorry because I can't remember the artist's name, but there was this one piece and it's a picture of a kid themselves as a child, and over the top of it they wrote, um Um What if I'm more than you intended me to be? And I think when I first came out, my family are great, but when I first came out um as non-binary, my mum was like kind of heartbroken at the loss of um the old me. And my mum was like, but uh, you know, I named you that for a reason, and I um and she took some time to come to terms with it. Not be me being non-binary, that wasn't the issue, it was the changing of my name.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

You changed your name, did you?

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yeah, so my my dead name is Emily.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

No way, I love that dropping the dead name, dropping the dead name, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Yeah, dropping the dead name, and then um I just basically someone at work started.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Oh but Lee kind of makes this sense.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Yes, someone at work started calling me Lee, because it was like the end of my name.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Sorry, that clo I didn't even clock that.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

No, uh someone started calling me Lee and I was like, what an obscure different name, and then I was like, wait a second. No, and I tried to explain that to my mum, and I was like, I'm kind of keeping the name I like the letter E, so it's L E E. And my mum was like, Yeah, but um so I waited a while to change all my paperwork.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

Which is a long fucking process. Jesus. Yeah, that's a boring process. So much paperwork involved in changing your name.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Did you have to change um or like do you have an X on your ID and stuff, or do you still have uh You don't have to answer that for the way it's it's it's it's MUCS.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Yeah, MX, yeah, MX. MX uh Lee Leaf Pond.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Oh cool.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

Um but yeah, no, my yeah, that was I think that was my brother, me changing my name, my favourite story is my brother, because I call my brother and I go, Hey, I'm changing my name to Lee, and my brother goes, That's actually so helpful.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Less syllables.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

My brother went, no, my brother went, God, every girl is called Emily, and I can't date them because they've got your name, but you've actually made my life so much easier. Two days later, he's at party, he meets a girl called Emily, they date for three months.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

No way. I was like Isn't three months such a normal like I feel like what happened after three months they just broke up? I feel like every every relationship I get into is like three months.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

He's a he's a he's a man, like I don't know. Yeah, he's he experimented with his gender and his sexuality and he came to the unfortunate conclusion that he is a straight white disman.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

And he's a disappointment to the family. No, he's no, he's really not.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

My my parents like struggled with um my name thing as well. Uh they've I might uh they call me no, they don't call me curious, they call me Kiki, but it's also what my nephews call me, so it's quite cute. Oh that's quite cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they found like a happy video with the rave changes stuff. Um you're wearing a band uh uh what makes you rage.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Oh yeah, we made a load of stickers. I bought you some stickers. Oh, thank you. We made a load of stickers, um so we run we have at all of our events we have like a rage um uh archive, and in it people can like draw, write, because we have a tree so you can write notes. And then we have a sketchbook and uh yeah, and so it's really like uh to it's all about community building, it's all about bringing people together, it's all about creating dialogues and conversations. Nice. So um we try and facilitate that in as many different ways as possible.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Um we only have sixty seconds.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

Sixty seconds.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

It's crazy that flu.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

That flu, I mean I can talk for years.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

I know, yeah, and get I get that vibe, yeah. It was so easy. It was so easy to talk to at this event. So I never like meet anyone I bring in the podcast before. Usually I just bring them on, I'm like, hey, that's fucking calf. So it's fun. Also, do you know I'm part of like a DJ collective that showcases art along with like a DJ night? Yeah called Tea Break Collective. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, so I ran like Translate by Tea Break um in October.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

Send me the details.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Yeah, yeah, but we could literally do a club for sure. We we like do the I'll show you all we could do something with East London Pride as well.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Tea Breaker Legends, my friend, one of my best friends, Cadia. She um she's travelling till May but when she's back we can organise it. But yeah, basically, like I did Translate by Tea Break, and we had like all this art up in the walls by a girl named Flo. She's so cool. Oh fantastic. But like, yeah, that would have been perfect to have Trans Rage. But next we can do it again.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

You've got like 30 artists now and I love it. No way!

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Oh my god, that's so sick. Okay, yeah, we'll definitely do that. Yeah. Um it's been amazing. So do you want to do one any more major last plugs before we finish?

SPEAKER_03 59:51

I guess the major plug is uh yeah, the prom on the 31st of the page. That's so cute. You can get tickets on Out Savvy. OutSavvy, it's just Trans Rage Prom. You can find it really easily. Um it's on in It's on at Tratz Palace on the 31st of March for Transday of Visibility.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

So cute. I'm actually rage and I can't go, I would love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Ian's playing, it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Yes, Ian is a legend. Ian's on this podcast in season one. Go back and listen to his story, it was beautiful. Uh thanks so much, Lee, for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. No, of course, it was lovely. It was great to meet you. Um and yeah, I'll be back next month with Trojan Tyne as a DJ and just an all-out East London legend. Um I literally got back from Belgium last night and worked all day today and then came straight to the podcast. So my brain, it's not a full capacity, but that was you were so easy to talk to. So I was so happy you were so easy to talk to because it was great. Because I got about two brain cells left. But um thanks so much, guys. I this is gonna be released. Um I think I have to do one solo episode because I missed check with voices what day it goes on the radio, but it'll be up on Spotify, and well, obviously you're gonna be listening to this stuff probably on Spotify.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

But like, yeah, we know we're listening to currently on Spotify.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

As I said, it's your brain cells. Okay, well, thanks so much, Lee. Um, yeah, it's great. Okay, bye guys, see ya.