Pursuing the Heart
We would like to show how people can discuss the Bible in a casual setting. Then every episode someone sharing a personal story of how God has changed their life...KYEOJ!!!
Pursuing the Heart
Galatians 4:27-31 & Sam's Story
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Scott Blewett, Luke Dunnuck, Sam Dunnuck, and Jonah Dunnuck have an open discussion on Galatians. Then Sam shares his story. I hope you listen and enjoy...KYEOJ!!!
Yellow, this is uh pursuing the heart. Uh this is Scott again, and we come back for part two and of uh uh this uh this text here 31 or 21 through 31 in Galatians 4, and I got the I got the same people again today. No Tim, no Chad, no other people. What's up, Luke Dunnock? Not much.
SPEAKER_04Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_02Part two, second week in a row that we've got Sam and Jonah.
SPEAKER_01I'm back again. Good to be back.
SPEAKER_02We need to tell your boss thank you for allowing you to have two weeks where you can come back to this podcast and be able to talk about Jesus. I mean, I've been told Scott's uh uh he can be some mean, tough guy. Is that right, or no? Is he is he is he just good? Are you guys uh uh over there at Pinks?
SPEAKER_00No, he is unbelievably generous.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's um okay, unbelievable generous.
SPEAKER_01He loves Jesus too, so oh he loves Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, he must love Jesus for allowing you guys to get some come back, talk about uh Galatians again. This will be the second week in a row. I gotta ask you a question. So last week when you were here on the podcast last week, you guys, Sam and Jonah, were you nervous at first, or were you just unsure? Or like being is well first, was this the first podcast you guys have ever been on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I was definitely nervous coming into it. I've never experienced a podcast before, so didn't know what to expect.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, this is a nightmare for me. I am horrible at stuff like this, but that's true. You know, I was always just told just say yes and amen, brother. We'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02So well, I've I've been given some feedback from you guys, all right. And I've been told you guys were you did a great job last week. So just let you know, all right. So I I want you to have confidence in this again. Wait, hold on. Luke, do you you want to give them some confidence? Like, did they do good or semi-good, or are you still is the jury still out for last week?
SPEAKER_04Hey, listen, you show up, you just show up, you say yes, you show up, you do your best. Okay. And the showing up part is your willingness and God honors willingness. He's he's going to build on a on a foundation of trust. And we talked that last last uh last time, the the believing loyalty. And um we're not we're not uh responsible for the results when we are walking by faith.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_04We're we're responsible for walking, and then let the results be up to the Lord. The Lord generates results out of what you want you don't even see. And I I can tell you I remember a few times people have said, yeah, yeah, I remember when you said it, it just kind of changed my whole and I can't remember even the conversation. When I, you know, it's like I don't need to be aware of what God does or try to control a result, you know. I just need to be faithful and let God do the rest. And that is very freeing. And I do live in the free Jerusalem above.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, that's a new thing, right? We we learned that last week. Yeah, did you guys remember that?
SPEAKER_01Man, you got away with words. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's the spirit flowing.
SPEAKER_02So on this podcast, if we're not gonna be breaking down any Greek, you guys aren't gonna make me say any Greek words, and we're just gonna be talking about just a casual conversation, an open discussion of what we get out of this text and how it can apply to us, and hopefully it applies to you guys out there listening. And uh, do you guys know that here's a little fun fact about this podcast? We're in so many, there's so many countries listening to this podcast right now. It blows me away. I don't even know how they even learned that we even had a podcast because we're in Indiana, right? This is where we're we're in we're in Noblesville, Indiana today, not in Pendleton. So like we're in the middle of the middle. Middle of the middle. Are you aware, Jonah, that someone in Israel has been listening to our podcast?
SPEAKER_01I was not aware.
SPEAKER_02Sam, are you aware that someone in Madrid, Spain has been listening to our podcast? I am now. Luke, do you know that someone in Milan is listening to our podcast?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's my uncle.
SPEAKER_02It is your uncle. No, I'm just kidding. Okay, alright. And then here, I'll throw one more out there. We have a listener that is listening mostly all the podcasts, and they're in Singapore. Amen. So here's the thing. I'll ask you guys honestly. Have you been to any of those locations?
SPEAKER_01I have not been out of North America. Nope. I went to Spain once.
SPEAKER_02So you got peeps over there? No, you were in Spain.
SPEAKER_04That's right. There you go. He was in Spain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But so people know that to listen, are you been telling people in Spain to listen?
SPEAKER_00I think that's before I even believed in God.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. All right. Well, so um, what's really cool is people are listening. It's like throwing a pebble in a lake and the ripples of this podcast. Hopefully, you listen to it, hopefully you take something away from it. And I hope Christ, I hope Jesus is speaking to you through the spirit. Um, and uh, we're gonna have another conversation tonight, and hopefully we can make it through. I got all the dunnocks here tonight, except a couple, but 27 through 31, we're gonna try to make it through those. And uh I asked Luke last time to pray. Would Jonah or Sam like to open up in prayer? Sure. Oh wait, hold on. So if anybody, if there was a camera here, before you stepped up, Jonah, everybody was pointing at you that were in this room. Did you feel that?
SPEAKER_01A little bit.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, I think I think they're saying that they're pretty confident you can do all right.
SPEAKER_01Lord, I just uh I want to pray thanks to you that that you can bring us all together in in this setting and in the podcast setting, um, just to sit down and you know pick through your word. Um I pray that you open our hearts and open our minds for for understanding um as we go through uh these next couple verses. Uh I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.
SPEAKER_02So my MO, if you guys have been listening to this, is I usually do a synopsis. My I do it um through what we went over the week before through Galatians. But I want to ask Sam. You were on the podcast last week. What were some takeaways? We went through 21 through 26 last week. What was something that just like popped off for you on in that in those verses that you took away? That's fine. Jonah, you want to help him out? Was there something in 21 through 26 that just like stood out to you and what this was trying to convey, what Paul's trying to convey here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I would say just the comparison of Sarah and Hagar. Um Sarah being the new covenant and Hagar being labeled as the old covenant.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Is it coming back to you there, Sam, a little bit?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it's what just a comparison between the old law and um the new covenant. And that's what, okay.
SPEAKER_02Luke from our discussion last week, Luke, was there something that just like besides the heaven uh Jerusalem above, because you've already mentioned it, uh, was there something that you just like really liked liked about last week? What the discussion that we were talking about?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I I I like I like really I'm starting to understand Paul and how he communicates. And I think sometimes it can be confusing. I think, you know, like I think it what's one of the one of the other apostles said, and some which some things are hard to understand. I think it might have been Peter that said that. But what Paul does is he speaks in a way that that that weaves uh themes and it seems repetitive, and sometimes the themes are repetitive, but he hits it from different angles and even different uh points of view. And I I I like that phrase point of view because if you if you flow from a message that he's trying to make, and he's not just I don't think he's just pontificating or preaching, he's addressing problems when he writes a letter. He's addressing the problem in the church. And the problem in this situation is that, you know, he's he's challenging people that have come to Christ in the Church of Galatia to stay true to the message, to the gospel, because they're getting they're they're getting distracted by people with bad intentions that are bringing in um a previous covenant that had a role but no longer has a role for the church. And so as they as they are wrestling and grappling with trying to keep the message true, he's frustrated with them that they are so easily distracted and he says perplexed, and he uses interesting language to try to make the point and to correct. So he's trying to correct the church, get them back on track to Jesus, to keep your eyes on Jesus, and to trust Jesus, what he's done, and then what pleases him, you know, which is you know, the father's pleased by our faith. And and he's going to use illustrations to to prove that. And he does that. He's and I think that the one thing was that he he stands on the old testament, he builds on it. He's an expert. He knows, he knows, he's qualified uniquely to have this conversation because he was a great Jew. He was great at the law.
SPEAKER_02He knew. Yeah. He was the smartest of the smart next in line. He was he was gonna have that place. And what I really like in three and in four, he keeps on talking about this guy named Abraham. And what in three, chapter three, he was saying it's faith. Abraham was declared righteous because of his faith. And then in this chapter, in chapter four, right at the end of this chapter, he goes back in and talking about Abraham and talking about the story of Hagar and the story of Sarah, and talking about the two sons that we talked about last week, which is one was Ishmael and one was Isaac, one was from the promise, and one from the flesh. And if either one of you could describe a little bit, Noah or Sam, what that promise was for the people that are listening, and who the promise was to.
SPEAKER_01I think the the promise was to Abraham that his son um would have many nations descended from him.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And the promise was God was gonna do that. Yeah, and I think he kind of backslid a little bit and decided to he was trying to jump the gun. He's like, I'm I'm this is the scout again. I'm 90 years old, man. This I don't think I've been waiting 10 years for something, and I don't think it's gonna happen. So let's just do with this. Right? Maybe this is what God wanted. Well, no, that's not what God wanted. And we know 10 years later he was 100 years old, and they conceived Isaac. So then you have this dynamic between the two sons. One's from Hagar, who was, I believe Sam said this last week was Sarah's handmaiden. Is that what you said last week? Yeah, isn't that right? Yeah, it is right. And um, so then you had you had this slave from Egypt who's there helping with Sarah, and then she they came up with this great plan, her and Abraham, they're like, hey, let's have a kid through Hagar. So they had a kid, and that was Ishmael. But then God came forth through his promise, because if God promises something, do you think God's gonna fulfill that promise if he told you there's gonna be he's gonna come through?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I would look has he ever broke any of your promises? No, no, he hasn't. Except he didn't win a a belt and boxing or MMA, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, those are my goals. Yeah, oh not his goal. Okay, he's good enough not to let me hit all my goals, let's just say. So I'm not sure I know what's best for myself.
SPEAKER_02So but if he promised you something, he's gonna he's gonna come forth and deliver. Absolutely. That's his nature. Absolutely. Yep. So he's still the same person he is then, was then, and is now. So if he makes a promise, it's gonna come fulfill. So uh we left off um in on 27, but if you go back, uh 25 talks about Hagar is from Mount is Mount Sinai in Arabia, which corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. So using her as a comparison that Hagar was a slave, and her children were slaves, and Jerusalem, the people in Jerusalem at this time were slaves as well. And I don't think they were they knew that they were actually slaves, they were slaves to the law. That's right. So then 26 says, but the Jerusalem above is free. She's our mother. So he's not saying that they that the Jews were our she's like saying she's our mother. So if you believe in Christ, you believe in Jesus, then you are attached to Sarah because you're in the spiritual.
SPEAKER_04That's right. Yeah, I I think you know, the the the covenants that are represented here again is the the covenant of promise, which was given to Abraham. And then there was uh the Mosaic covenant given to um Israel as they got rescued out of Egypt and you know immediately built a golden calf. And and so the the law, the mosaic law was given as a preparation for the coming Messiah that was also promised in the Abrahamic covenant, which is I will I will make your offspring, I will, I will bring the seed. And uh, you know, that was the last podcast I was on where we were talking about that the seed and that seed being one, it's just Christ. And so Christ is the fulfillment of both the promise and also the preparation. And man, are we gonna see it today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can't wait till we get in here. So 27. All right, I'll read it, and then so it says, for it is written, rejoice, barren woman who does not bear, break forth and shout, You who are not in labor, for more numerous are the children of the desolate than of the one who has a husband. Something that if you haven't realized, if you're uh new studying the word or studying Paul, Paul references so many times the Old Testament, and he pulls from the Old Testament and quotes out of the Old Testament, and I'll ask you guys, Jonah and Sam, as younger dudes, new and you're you know, new on your walk, have you ever seen how many times I mean, have you real have you realized that Paul's pulling so much out of the old testament? Not only in Galatians, but in Colossians, Romans. Has it ever been uh as you studied and reading this next section, was this something that you are now discovering that Paul just quotes so much out of the old testament?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and um in our Sunday study, we are we're actually going through Romans right now. Um I'm seeing that as well.
SPEAKER_02And what in what or let me ask you a question because I just want the audience to understand. In Romans, just asking asking you, in Romans, what is where is he pulling from in Romans? What what section are you guys talking about right now in Romans?
SPEAKER_01Right now we're going through Romans eight. Uh-huh. So we just we just got to eight, I believe.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And there were some uh pulls in the previous chapters or in actual chapters, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02I don't think he's pulled from in on a little bit in a while. Okay. All right. Okay. I was something as me as a new believer, I never realized how many quotes Paul quotes from the Old Testament. When did that hit you, Luke?
SPEAKER_04When you Yeah, I don't I don't know that it hit me as a a stark reality as much as I almost felt like I didn't understand what I was reading, you know, because I started out, you know, reading. And and especially I did read that the the you know, the book of John was the first Bible, uh, the book in the Bible I've I read. And I, you know, Jesus was quoting all from the you know Old Testament with the script. So I there's no real frame of reference there as a you know, I was a new Christian, I didn't have a big church background, so I was just like, oh, okay, you know, and I I started understanding references and I started learning how to study the Bible, and then that that's when it got pretty exciting. But I was a New Testament guy for so long, and honestly, I didn't have a real appreciation for the Old Testament until probably the last 10 years, and and then our study has been a real eye-opener. And I I don't know. We've been in the book of Genesis on our Friday study for for almost over a year now, I guess it's been, and it's it's just been a foundational layer that I can read the New Testament now with a lot more clarity because I understand the references. And I think as an as a new believer, I would encourage both of these young guys here that um stay in the study where you're where people are are really breaking down the old testament. You know, obviously the New Testament talks about the covenant that we're in now. Yeah, but as you see the build-up and the the correlations and the the prophecies and like what we're gonna see here, I'm I'm gonna make a point here when when he turns me loose on uh I'm holding back, you guys. So yeah, so uh and I think it it's it it it kind of fulfills kind of what we're talking about here in a in a perfect example.
SPEAKER_02So this so this verse here in 27, it he quotes this from one of my favorite books, which is the book of Isaiah, and it happens to be the book it was Isaiah 54. Before we came on the podcast, one of these young men sitting next to me said, Do you guys know what Isaiah 53 is? Do you guys want to say what Isaiah 53 is?
SPEAKER_01To me, it's it seems like a clear reference to Jesus and and what he's gonna go through. I think it it talks about him being pierced for transgressions, something along those lines. I know the Old Testament's kind of hard to read at times, but you're fine, you're good. Um that's what that's what I saw in it.
SPEAKER_02So then he's pulling from the next chapter over from that chapter, and I'm gonna let Luke talk about this Isaiah 54. When you read it, what were you what what's this? I'm kind of confused here. I'm sure people were confused. Maybe you can clear this up. Like, why did he quote the first verse of 54? Why didn't he reference any of the other verses? There's some good verses in 54.
SPEAKER_04You know, I I this is what I love about walking in the spirit and studying your Bible. It is that as long as I've done it, and I've been a Christian since 1990, every now and then I get rushed with a new point of view. And I keep saying that word because I think Paul, I'm understanding the author more. You know, I'm trying to figure out how he communicates and why he communicates the way he does, because sometimes it does seem repetitive and it seems in a good way. I love it, but also I'm like, man, he's not lost for words, you know? Uh and so here's the thing I wanted to share about Isaiah 54 here, as that's being the old testament reference. Is imagine if you're Paul and you don't believe in Jesus Christ, but you're out to not only persecute Christians, you're trying to stamp out the name of Jesus Christ because when he was in Saul, yeah. And he was still Paul, I think it was his Roman name, but he went by Saul of Tarsus, which he was uh he was a Pharisee and a very ambitious leader in the in the uh in the Jewish community. Under the under the best leader, Gamelil, I think, and he's a stud. He's a star on the rise. He's he's he's building a name for himself, and he's a passionate, aggressive um keeper of the law and a a studier of the Torah. So he's out to stamp out the offense of Christianity. And he thinks uh even the name Jesus Christ probably bristled his skin. I mean, he was there to green light the stoning of Stephen. Anybody that was perpetuating this false religion in his mind, he's going to take them out and get rid of them. And if it's just really clear in the book of Acts on that. So imagine when he's off to round up another, what he would consider, you know, like a big bust. He's out to get um Christians on the road to Damascus, uh, because that's where those Christians, he's got the report. And then he gets blown out of the saddle by Jesus Christ himself with a bright light and speaking directly to him. Right. Using his name.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_04And I'm thinking, this guy knows the scriptures, yeah. And he's a teacher, okay, and he's been under the best student or the best teacher, the best schools. He's got the ropes, he's the man. So making the connection here. So what do you think the first verse when he found out that Jesus was the Messiah? Like when Jesus let him in on full disclosure, I am he, I am the one you are persecuting. I have to imagine the first place he went to was Isaiah 53. Isaiah 53. I'm that was Jonah. Jonah said that. If he didn't go there, yeah, that that had to be because now he's gotta re he's gotta rewire his brain. He's gotta rewire his understanding, like, oh my gosh. If the if if Jesus is the Messiah, and I know all the he has to go back and sift through what he already has built into his brain, yeah, and plug in Jesus in all the gaps where the Messiah. So I can't imagine him getting very far into that without hitting Isaiah 53. Yeah, and then he flips over to one chapter over. One chapter over. Now, the Isaiah 53, in my opinion, says if you don't see Jesus in this, uh-huh, you don't want to see Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04So if if you're if you don't believe in the Messiah, or if let's say you're a practicing uh Jew, Jew or Jewish person, right? If you if read Isaiah 53 and then go back through the accounts, yeah, the four eyewitness accounts. And if you don't see it, maybe you don't want to see it. But if you see it, that says that's who he is. And then Paul goes into this correlation into covenants. Yeah. So he's gonna take the object of the new covenant, which is Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the fulfillment of Abraham's covenant, the covenant of promise, the seed, the offspring, and the preparation of the of the uh the fulfillment, which is the law, which nobody could keep. It was it was a covenant of death and sin and failure, but also it gave you know ceremonial, you know, uh atonement. So it it had it it kept them in the game, but the the law, as it says earlier in in Galatians, the laws are tutor to Christ. So imagine Paul using the law, which he knew very well, yeah, meeting Christ first, and then using the law as the tutor validate. So and now he goes into he's gonna use this as an example of how to understand the covenants, the three the Abrahamic, the Mosaic, and now the new covenant. So that's what I wanted to say. It's like he's he stands on the old testament.
SPEAKER_02He does, man, and he's like talking about rejoice, barren woman who does not bear. Break forth and shout, You are not in labor, for more numerous are the children of the desolate than of the one who has a husband. So he's talking about Sarah and Hagar there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Quick question. Where were we when I we were going over the three covenants?
SPEAKER_02Uh that was in um so we if we went back to your section, it was chapter three. And um we did, I think 16 and 17, it says, Now the promises were spoken to Abraham to the seed. He does not say and to seeds as referring to many, but rather to one. But if you go back to your podcast, that was yeah, that was what we were where we were hitting on that. And I think he's talking about the same thing, and and and so like he braids it. See, I Luke is Luke is getting very excited because well, the last time he was on here, we only got through two verses, but we've we've we're moving a little bit, we're doing a little bit better this time. So your excitement here is you're saying that goes back to that, what you were talking about, seeds or seed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and and so now he's talking about the covenant. Covenant of promise. God promises Abraham to bring the seed, the Messiah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and so he and he's doing that in the the most miraculous way with Sarah. So that that that idea of the Jewish line and the seed, you know, Isaac, you know, and it goes from Isaac and it goes to Jacob, uh, and then it goes through Judah, and then it goes all the way to Christ. And then it's like the law, the Moses, and he's gonna use Hagar to represent this covenant of slavery, of this expectations that can't be met, you know. And um, and then he's talking about Sarah being the you know, the fulfillment of both of these is going to be Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is is the the promise. That's what Jesus Christ is what the law rep what the law was a model of.
SPEAKER_02What does uh 28 say, Sam?
SPEAKER_00It says, now you brothers like Isaac are children of promise.
SPEAKER_02Oh it says, and you brethren in in my version, and you brethren like other believers, you're like Isaac. Are the children of promise. So because we believe in Jesus Christ, we are now part of Abraham's offspring. He's talking about himself. He says we.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it does. But look what he says next.
SPEAKER_02He says, but as at that time, he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the spirit. Okay, who's the biggest persecutor that ever walked this earth?
SPEAKER_04That was Paul. He knows. You see, you see how he he comes at different angles? He's talking about himself.
SPEAKER_02I mean, he's talking to himself about in a bad light, right?
SPEAKER_04Because he's like because he's been there. He's done that, but now he's here, but he remembers being there and he communicates from that point of view, and he cut now he says, so he's he gets it. It's all over the place. Honestly, he's all over the place. Yeah, if you were uh if you were an English teacher, you'd be spinning. But he's he's if you follow him all the way, if you stick with him, it's um it's really something.
SPEAKER_02So a little fun fact uh in the New Living Translation in verse 29. I really love the ending here. It says, it says, Um, the child born by human effort persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the spirit. So I'll re the 29 in the New Living Translation says, but you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the spirit.
SPEAKER_04I'm telling you. I know I'm your dad, but I'm just telling you, like I was sitting where you were, and I had no clue. Literally couldn't find the books. And when you identify, you know, with Jesus Christ as your identity and who you are, and by his doing, you're now a new creation born again. It's not going to be exciting every single day, but there are going to be times when you read the Bible and it's popping off the page. And I can just tell you that we're studying the same same thing on Fr on Sunday mornings. If you haven't noticed the the binary of one side or the other, we're studying Genesis, you know, yeah in our in our study on Friday morning, and these these things are correlating nicely at one time without plan. Yeah, we didn't plan it. No. It's and and I hope you see that so that you can say, okay, this is this is all by design, and God's faith will to teach us at his own speed. And you can't learn faster than he can take you there. So don't don't sweat it. Listen stay in the game, stay with your nose in the book, and then hang around guys that are care about it.
SPEAKER_02So again, two kids, Isaac, Ishmael.
SPEAKER_04One of flesh? Yeah, and one of the natural sinful, born of Adam, right, and one by the spirit. Yeah, correlate that that act allegory.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And going into verse 30, it says, but what does the scripture say? Cast out the bondwoman and her son. For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman. This is a direct quote from Genesis, and it's a direct quote from Genesis 20, chapter 21. And it was told you need to cast the bondwoman out and her son.
SPEAKER_04What does a bond woman represent, boys? Flesh. What else? What covenant? The old covenant, the law. What's he saying to do with the law? Get rid of it. Obsolete out. Why?
SPEAKER_00It's obsolete. There it is. Is that Hebrews 8?
SPEAKER_02I think so. Yeah, it so he's he's pointing out what they were told to do, but in this illustration, when the point that Luke and you guys were making here is it's not about the woman in this illustration, it's about the law.
SPEAKER_04Cast it out. Cast it out. Why why by the way, Paul for Paul to say that, because from the very moment he he got introduced to Jesus personally on the road to Damascus, the law was his number one passionate first priority. Period. End of story. His everything was the law. Yeah. Every day he woke up. Every single so for him to say cast out the bondwoman, there's not anyone more qualified to say that than Paul. Now you wonder why did God pick Paul? Why did he pick him? Well, he says in verse 31, which we're not going to go into, but it addresses who he's talking to.
SPEAKER_02Well, note 31 says, So then, brethren.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free woman.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Now is Paul disrespecting the law, the law? What do you think? Do you think he's disrespecting it or talking down about it or to it? No. May it never be, right? Yeah. May it never be. May it never be. Yeah. Like if you remember Romans, you know, I think it was five, six, and seven. It's may it no, the law was good. It was useful. Yeah. But man, once the better covenant is established within, you know, the church or in the in the believer. Yeah. And that's the problem. That's the problem he's addressing is people are bringing back the old.
SPEAKER_02So he's putting an explanation point.
SPEAKER_04He's bringing flesh back into the church.
SPEAKER_02He's making an explanation point for you guys and for us. We're not of the bomb woman, so don't be of the bomb woman. We're of the free woman. We're in Jesus. We're not under the law.
SPEAKER_04I think that'd be easier for a Gentile, you know, like, hey, we're just grafted into the, you know, to the deal. Right. But if you're a Jew and you put the law first and you've been reverencing the law and you think that's the that's the right thing to do to please God, to hear that it's not anymore. Yeah. And that really it never did please God. You know, like it just kept them in check. Right.
SPEAKER_02Faith was the what pleased God. Yeah. So if you want to know Paul. So these were never, I don't know if you know this. This was a letter. It was never separated by verses or chapters. So if you just read the very next verse, which was which flows with 31, I love this. It says, It was for freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore, keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Braveheart.
SPEAKER_01Freedom. Freedom.
SPEAKER_02Freedom. So he's now put a by reading that one verse in the very next chapter, put an explanation point on 21 through 31. If you want freedom, live in Christ.
SPEAKER_04Why would you want a yoke of slavery? Yeah. Why would you want to live in the present Jerusalem when you can live free in the one above?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's Luke's new favorite thing. I'm gonna wear that one out. Well, I do like that. It was really good. Is that right now? Pretty sure it is. Yeah, it's right now. Sam, along the way in your life, when did this how did how'd this become real to you?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's I'm in the process of a process of it right now, actually. I mean, I didn't really uh I guess pick up my Bible and start reading it until maybe two years ago. And I really didn't, you know, believe in God up until a couple years ago, on and off. Kind of, you know, it just maybe, maybe not, who knows? Who really cares? I just couldn't, you know, faith wasn't tangible enough for me. And it, you know, it took some adversity in my life uh that that pushed me in that direction.
SPEAKER_02Was it was it a hard thing for you to walk through, or was it something that you'd heard it growing up, and now you're making now it's becoming real to you, or is it just something you decided like I'm gonna give this a try?
SPEAKER_00Well, I can't halfway do anything. I have to want to pursue something for myself. I can't be, you know, told to do something or pushed a certain direction against my will. So I had to want it for myself. And my whole life, you know, I've I grew up in the house with all my brothers, you know, with my dad and everything like that. So faith was always around, but for me, it just it wasn't a big deal. And you know, I just I had some stents, you know, thinking about it more and more. And there was some time in the Marine Corps where, you know, I thought I needed God and stuff like that with my circumstances. But I was, I guess, what do you call it a lukewarm Christian where you like the idea of Christianity and I liked all the bells and whistles of everything, but I didn't, you know, I didn't truly get it or believe or anything like that. I just kind of just went through the motions. But a couple years ago, you know, I was in a long-term relationship and um everything changed all at once, you know. I had to move, I had a uh, you know, a career change and everything like this, too. And, you know, that's peanuts compared to what some guys have been through, but it was a hard time for me. Um, and I just tried to, you know, to find purpose in other things, whether it be, you know, material, fleshly things, whatever it may be, but it got to the point to where I ran out of answers. Because I've always tried to white knuckle things myself and do everything myself. And it got it just got to the point where I could not do that anymore, and I just needed some help. So I started praying for discernment and what I should do.
SPEAKER_02I like that word discernment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just just what I should how should I handle this, and you know, what should I do? And I won't go into too too much detail about you know any situation or anything like that, but I got exactly what I prayed for, and it was essentially a slap in the face to where you know I had I I couldn't tell myself this was a coincidence, you know. So it was from that point forward I started looking for answers elsewhere, and a big part of this um was my brother Isaiah, and I saw basically how he was pursuing this at the time, and I saw what effect it was having on him, and I there was there was obviously something I was missing. So we we started our uh you know, a small Bible study, just my brothers and my dad and I. And even then, it's you know, I didn't get much of it, but it got to the point where I started actually reading the Bible for myself instead of just being you know told everything wrapped up in messaging or whatever it may be. Like I actually read it for myself and started reading different things, and that's when things just started falling into place and clicking and seeing the parallels with everything, and you know, it just it just pushed me farther and farther into it. And like I said, I'm I'm still new to this. I wish I knew more um so I could contribute more, but I'm doing everything I can now, uh, surrounding myself with the smartest men I know, you know, in the Friday mornings, uh around my brothers on the Sunday Bible studies, things like that, and just soaking up as much as I can, uh trying to learn all this because it is clicking in my life, and I'm still trying to figure all this out.
SPEAKER_02And well, I see that you are figuring it out. I see that you are connecting the dots. I see that you are searching, and that's encouraging to me when you have someone that is trying to figure it out, asking questions. You don't just come on Fridays and just sit there. You're asking questions. You ask me hard, difficult questions, but I like it. Right? Because you're trying to put things together. You're trying to figure it out on your own to make it where you can understand it.
SPEAKER_00I have to ask for myself. I have to know for myself. I can't just be told something. I have to, you know, I have to get an answer.
SPEAKER_04Right. It's it's interesting how people learn differently, you know. And I think just watching, watching Sam, you know, even as a kid, how he puts how he builds things, he's a real practical constructionist. And I think when it's it seems to me, Sam, this is going to be like Tetris to you, where you're going to keep putting these pieces together. And then next thing you know, a row will fall of and understanding. It'll be like poof, and then you're like, okay. And then so some people, uh, the way they study, the way they they view things, um, they're methodical on their process. And I think that that that really sums it up. I think you're more on a what I would call it's called more of a kinesthetic side where you're more on a relational front. You're you're a lot like Sam in some ways, but uh, how you learn is different. And I think I think Isaiah learns more by feel. So the having brothers that are different and how they're built and being able to learn, you know, in their own way in the same setting is really something. It's it's very exciting. So um I I can't like you know, I have problems of my own, but when I look at what's good in my life, having you two sit here on this podcast right now is a overwhelming blessing. And I know my friends tell me how great it is. You know, like you you're so blessed to have your kids really pursuing this thing. And um, I didn't see it coming, you know. I used to feel like I wasn't doing enough as a young, young dad. You know, we didn't have them in church camp and a lot of things. They were playing athletics, and I'm like, these knuckleheads aren't learning anything but how to win and how to how to play sports. You know, I gotta get, you know, but I felt, but there's something to be said, like, you know, you give them that freedom to to learn and learn in their own way, and then provide a nice, healthy body of Christ around your family. And man, God is faithful, He has promised these things, and you know, He's delivered for sure.
SPEAKER_02I think uh to be honest with you, Sam, you and I connect more than you think because I have to um put pieces together. I just don't take people telling me, hey, this is what it says, this is what it means. I want to go look for it, I want to search it, and that's why your dad and others will call me. Hey, what did you learn new this week, man? And I'll be like, Well, I I I have you ever looked at this? Have you ever read it this way? This is what I learned this week, and I have to go do that, and I have to put the time in to make sure what I'm reading, and then make sure that extra step, I'm like, oh, okay. That's that's why that that says that. That's what that says. And then when I get that, I'm like, oh, I just want to share that with everyone because it's like I put the pieces together, right? I put I because I grew up in church, and uh people just said, hey, this is it, this is the way it is, and I'm like, no, are you sure? Who told you know, but I do see you and I can we're connecting that way because you look at me and you have faith what a lot of times what we're talking about that you know that I put the time in to give you that answer.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. That's why I asked you the questions, why I asked my dad the questions. I know I'm not gonna be steered in the wrong direction, you know, there's no agenda behind anything. We're both chasing the same answers, we're both looking for the same thing, and we're on the same team. So it's especially in in uh the Friday mornings, too. It's like you know, having like 12 to 15 guys in there, and I can ask any one of them, you know, any question to get a different answer and their perspective on it, things like that. And it's it's been unbelievably helpful and you know encouraging to me seeing the way you guys go back and forth and everything. And it's it's it honestly frustrates me because I like I said, I wish I knew more so I can contribute more, but I'm just trying to be a sponge in that room and soak up as much as I can.
SPEAKER_02The best the best thing right now for you is just be a sponge and learn. And I think I made this comment to you the other day, and I think you'll you'll remember this. One of our favorite guys is Wesley Huff. He was on the Sean Ryan podcast. And any young person or a young person in in their faith, if you are a new believer and you want to have conversation with people about scripture, Sean Ryan is a new believer, and ask Wes Huff a question. Wes Huff immediately he's sitting in a chair, grabs, reaches aside on the side of him and reaches up and pulls out his Bible and goes straight to Scripture. That is, if you want to know one thing that you can talk about, the the the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and there is great answers to a lot of questions in the Bible. And just knowing Wes Wes would probably tell you that he just didn't get there. It took him many a year to become to where he's confident where he can go in scripture to answer Sean's question, right? So I would say keep up, I would encourage you to keep going. Don't get discouraged. There might it might be one day where we're having a discussion, and then all of a sudden you're right there in that discussion because you know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And I I think the frustration comes with me not knowing the lore of the Bible and all the details of the Bible and stuff like that. I mean, that that's I mean, that'll come with time and learning more and more and more. But I think one of the the most important thing is I understand um how grace works and what Jesus did for us. So bottom line, I think just having the understanding of that is you know uh confidence and confidence inspiring enough for me now as I learn more and more about the actual Bible, the stories and everything like that, and the characters and everything that goes into it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if you can get the great foundation and build on your foundation, I encourage everybody to do that, right, Luke?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. I I do think that if you have your eyes on Jesus, and that's the number one thing, is get to know the Lord, get to know him, and and and sometimes that sounds like a a vague type of idea because I'm not I'm not um it's not that I'm not that that I'm not an emotional Christian, I would say, from from a feeling standpoint, as much as I'm uh trusting knowing, seems like a more intellectual, more um mental process for me to trust God and to to boldly move in a direction that I I believe in. Um but when I say know him, it's it's know one who he is, what he what his attributes are, know God, and then know Jesus Christ. And then when you when you study the Bible, remember that the Holy Spirit, as a promise, is to be our counselor. It's why Jesus sent the Spirit and left himself. That it says we have no need of a teacher, but the Spirit will teach us in all things, even to the point where he would remind the disciples of what he said that they didn't understand. He would bring that to light. So that same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells within you and will give you understanding. And you can put the heat on God for that, because I I I have tried to speed that up on my own efforts and have been frustrated. And then finally I'm like, I don't I need to just relax and enjoy it. These these ideas I had about Paul today are all from today. I I didn't know I didn't have that narrative a week ago. Just today, and I don't know if it was just God's good pleasure to give me a just a good time in the word. You know, did the diagram up there and it was fun to do because I I just was inspired to do so do it because I wanted to. And it's like you said, Sam, it's like if you don't want to, you're not going to. I can tell you this about Sam. He's not going to go along with the crowd for the sake of going along with the crowd. Yeah. If he doesn't believe it, he's not going. And that's what warms my heart is it's not my job to motivate him or challenge him. It's my job to encourage him to keep going in the direction that God's leading him in. And for all that all of my friends and my my sons, um, and when that becomes an easy venture because they want to, that's really the good stuff. So uh it's neat that my friends are now their friends, and yeah, they're independent operators.
SPEAKER_02So I'll ask the question before we close. Jonah, if someone said to you, can you summarize Galatians 4 21 through 31? What would that summari what would that sum what would you summarize 21 through 31 talking about? We talked about it last week and we've talked about it again this week. What's that summarization for you?
SPEAKER_01I'd say short terms, just the difference of being born into the spirit versus versus born into the flesh. Okay. And that us believers in Jesus are born into the spirit, reborn into the spirit.
SPEAKER_02Sam, did you have something different than that that you could summarize 21? If someone asks you what 21 through 31, and I even teased verse one of chapter five.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's just a simple uh why are you worried about you know the law when you have this amazing new deal? It's what are you what are you doing right now?
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. I love that. I love it.
SPEAKER_04I'll I'll tell you just really quick. Um You're not quick, but anyway. The one thing that has encouraged me is just you, Sam. I'll tell you, I I watched you fight through fight through this podcast. I watched it. And when you started talking about your story and what how you just said right there, God was faithful, and I would say you couldn't have done any better than what you've done in the last 25 minutes. As far as saying compelling things that mean something that were authentic and exactly what you wanted, whatever what you wanted out to to be able to do, you did. And I watched you fight to you fight, you fight to relax and let it happen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right before that, I prayed for the Holy Spirit to let it rip.
SPEAKER_02So it's okay. I'm just saying that's great. That's great.
SPEAKER_04I'm just saying, because it's like as you as a dad, it's like you you don't want to see your kid struggle, you know. You want right, but uh being patient and watching him work through that and seeing it, it's like we all saw it that we were in this room and we saw it. Right. I think if it was so obvious to me that I'm I'm just had to say something, but you know, you're not going to get that from the Bondwoman. You're gonna bring your best efforts and you're gonna find yourself you're empty when you need we when you are in over your head, you do not have the ability to execute. But if you've got Christ in you, you're ready for anything. And it doesn't mean you're going to execute like you think you should. It just means whatever comes your way, he is in it with you. He he's he's his eyes are on the situation, and you'll get exactly out of that what he wants you to get. And you can boldly move into that direction with with confidence, and and the confidence is in him and not in you. And so, and and and Scott, just just for your sake, is watching you set up all of this equipment and put this together and discipline yourself to do this every week is another thing that you probably didn't see in your future two years ago or three years ago, and now here you are ministering all around the world in a weekly. So you're another example of living under the right woman, you know, in this this allegory, you know, you're walking in spirit and and freedom and truth.
SPEAKER_02Well, I would be the last person that anyone would have ever said, Oh, you're gonna be doing a podcast, yeah. You're gonna be talking about Jesus, and you're gonna send it out. I'm like, who would ever want to listen to me, or who would ever want to listen to anybody that I have come on to the podcast? But anyway, I've had affirmations from lots of people that they love, you know.
SPEAKER_04It's just it's it's God working in and through you because you're willing to move in and say yes, step in.
SPEAKER_00Like you said, too, if it just reaches one person, yeah, that's all that matters.
SPEAKER_02That's all we're what's all that I hope for is that one person. So we're uh closing this uh podcast for today. Uh, we've had two great weeks. I hope you held in and came back for the second part two. Um, and I hope you got something. I hope the Holy Spirit just smacked you across the head and said, Hey, I wanted you to hear this. And um just remember, this is uh pursuing the heart. Uh God pursues us, and now we pursue him, and it's a joy, it's awesome. And just uh really understand, like like the guy said tonight, we we're not of that bomb woman, we're of the free woman, we're in the spirit, and um we close every podcast. I know it's very simple. Uh some I've heard this uh thing, you know, simple, stupid. Is that right? Keep it simple, stupid. So um in your difficulties in life or trials in life, or when things come out of the or out of the unexpected, uh K-Y-E-O-J, keep your eyes on Jesus. It can't it can't get any better than that. And uh I hope you come back next week. Like, subscribe, share, and uh and tell everybody to to listen to one. Hopefully they listen to one and they're hooked because I know there's a bunch of people are. So uh I look forward to coming back again next week and talking about Jesus. We're gonna be in Galatians 5 next week. We're getting close to being done with Galatians. Don't know where we're going next, but hey, uh key K Y E O J keep your eyes on Jesus. We love you. Have a nice, have a good one.