Pursuing the Heart

Ephesians 1:1-14 & with Woody Cumbie

• Scott Blewett

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We start the series on Ephesians. Scott Blewett and Woody Cumbie have an open discussion on Ephesians. Woody shares his salvation experience and where Jesus has him now...I hope you listen and enjoy!!! KYEOJ!!!  

SPEAKER_04

Hey, how's it going? This is uh Pursuing the Heart. Uh God pursued us. Now we pursue Him. And that's what this podcast is about. And um man, we closed out Galatians the last time with uh my buddy Ryan McCall. And now I have another good friend joining us tonight, but we're gonna start a series in Ephesians, and I can't wait. It's gonna be it's gonna be really good. So um my good friend is uh Woody Cumbe. He's the executive director of Trinity Palm Sunday Palm Ministries. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00

Trinity Palms Ministries Ministries.

SPEAKER_04

And uh Woody is a uh just recently retired pastor of how many years?

SPEAKER_00

Uh too long, over 40 years.

SPEAKER_04

Over 40 years, okay. Yeah, um, he's been in the uh Indianapolis area for quite some time. Um before that, he was in the beautiful state of Florida. Yes, and this is where Woody and I really, really, really have a good relationship in. He looked let me let me say this right. You went to Florida State, is that correct? I did, and I'm a huge Florida State fan. Let's get it on. Probably the one of the biggest Florida State fans. That's probably my negative to some people, but hey, it is a positive to a lot of people in the Knoll nation.

SPEAKER_00

What about them gnolls? Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04

Go Knolls, right?

SPEAKER_00

Go Knolls. Um, I was even at the Indy 500 and I had like this really modest, I you know, hardly anything said Florida State on the shirt, but it wasn't like big. And uh I got people in in the stands like go gnolls, go gnolls. I mean, it's like, oh yeah. Well, the tribe is out there.

SPEAKER_04

If I told you how many people like if I wear uh Florida State stuff, my wife says I can't buy any more Florida State shirts, but I still tend to buy one or two and sneak them in. Oh yeah. But um in public, I have lots of people that come up to me and goes, Go Knowles. No doubt. Or no doubt. Uh do you are you really a Florida State fan? Yeah, and I'm like, uh I'm probably a probably a bigger one than most people because I actually have a spear in my garage. Does that does that does that count me as a big fan? Yeah, they go, they look at you three with like four or five eyes that are like a spear. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, the one they light up on fire at the beginning of the games, I actually have a full functioning spear like that. Yeah, you do. So um, other than that, uh tell us a little bit about yourself there, Woody.

SPEAKER_00

Well, before we get to that, um, or before we move on, so uh in that this is a podcast about our faith, you know, uh one of the advantages to being an FSU fan is it can test your faith.

SPEAKER_04

Right now, I I looked at um this coming football season and I'm thinking about checking out because until the coach is done away with, I don't I have no hope, but I do have hope in Jesus, but I have no hope in Norvell. Yeah, no doubt. So no doubt. So anyway, um yeah, a little side note, but yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself there, Woody. I know that I just let everybody know that who you a little bit, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we we have in common also Georgia.

SPEAKER_04

That is correct, right?

SPEAKER_00

So I was born in Georgia, Atlanta, Georgia, and uh my dad was actually in the Air Force at the time, stationed in Panama, but my mom uh was from Tocoa, Georgia, beautiful mountain town.

SPEAKER_04

Uh there is a you want to tell everybody about the beautiful waterfall in Tacoa?

SPEAKER_00

You know, um I have to admit, I know there's a beautiful waterfall there. Oh my gosh. You've been there more more recently than me.

SPEAKER_04

No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_04

No.

SPEAKER_00

But it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I've I used to go there, so there is a uh Christian college in Tacoa Falls.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_04

And at the on the college campus, you walk to the falls.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And so our church group would go there every year, and I went there seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth for a youth camp. See, and I would swim in that little pond lake thing, and you look over and your friends' lips are purple because it's so cold. Yep. Because you're you're in the mountains in North Georgia. So I'm gonna go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

So so my mom, my dad's stationed in Panama, it's 1954. Uh, so she comes up to be with her mom to, you know, for the last part of her pregnancy. So I was born in Atlanta, Georgia Baptist Hospital. I'm not sure it exists, probably been bought by some corporate something, but forever, when you would drive through and you were stuck in traffic in Atlanta, you would eventually drive under this sign that said Georgia Baptist Hospital. And every time I did, I'd be like, I was born there. So when I was just a kid, taken back down to I'm talking about weeks old, months old, taken to Panama. All my early pictures were around banana trees and all that stuff. I was an Air Force brat and uh we moved everywhere. It was Air Force life.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And um a lot of advantages to that. Yeah. A lot. And I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it was not a rooted go to church, have lifelong childhood friends type life because you just kept moving.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So my dad was eventually with the a long story to s to get to how I came to know Christ. Um eventually my dad was out of the Air Force, he was with the uh FAA, and we were in Tallahassee, Florida, home of the Knolls.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I had a friend and he was lost as a goose. I was lost as a goose. We were co-heathens, but this guy's dad faithfully took his family to church. So I was like in eighth grade and maybe the summer after eighth grade, and this guy invited me to go to church with him.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So it was the first Baptist church in Tallahassee. So I go to First Baptist Church, they're preaching the gospel. I don't know anything about it. I don't know anything about church, I don't know any of it. We're do just typical kids just being there. But I'm telling you, the Lord was so incredible and so good. There was a lot of dysfunction in my home at that time. My parents were about to get separated.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And big fights and all this.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I just felt a love in a community there. That was kind of the first thing the Lord was using to like draw me in. So how old were you at this time? I was probably 15, 15 years old. Okay. All right. And it's like there's something different. You know, there's something different here.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So eventually eventually I was like, it comes through to my brain, it's like, wait a second, or my heart, it's that gospel they're talking about. This is what's changed people. It's Jesus who changed people. And I remember you were such what's so strange about this. It was a beautiful downtown auditorium. You old-fashioned, you know, chandeliers. It's the first Baptist church, it's pews, it's all that. But you had to go forward and out these side doors in the front where everybody was watching you to leave the auditorium if you had to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

There was no way behind. If you went behind, you just literally went out to the street.

SPEAKER_04

Went outside. I've been in some of those churches. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So uh, and it was a come forward invitation.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

At this church, Southern Baptist Church.

SPEAKER_04

Southern Baptist has always come forward every every at the end of the inner service. Just as I am. And oh wait, that is the song that they or um is it I surrender?

SPEAKER_00

I surrender all.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so I can just remember that song. They would sing it like six times.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

And and they're like, not enough. We gotta go one more. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Sorry. So on this particular day, I'm sitting beside my cut my hope, my co-heathen friend, and uh, I'm telling you, I just knew in my heart this is this is it. I wow you're gonna trust in Christ as my savior. So I stepped out, and this is where the story kind of comes together about the architecture. I step out and go forward, which didn't alarm my friend in any way. He just assumed I was I was leaving. Yeah, I was going out to the restroom, and that was gonna be it. I was gonna be gone.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Instead, I got to the top of the aisle, turned left, and shook the pastor's hand.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. And so he uh Do you remember the pastor's name?

SPEAKER_00

Um his well, his name was Doug Waterson.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, his name was Doug Watterson. All right, and um anyway, he uh uh shook my hand. You know, we stood there, we talked about the gospel a little bit more, prayed. I trusted Christ my savior. Oh a few weeks later, I was baptized.

SPEAKER_04

That's great.

SPEAKER_00

Then later, uh called to ministry a completely different story, but ordained in that church and nice all that. So it's uh big hurry.

SPEAKER_04

We're setting up a teaser at the end when we get through with our um going through some Ephesians. Yeah, I'll lead you into some of your story. I'd like to hear a little more about your story. So um, so today we're uh going to uh start in Ephesians. Uh before we get in there, we're gonna pray. Uh, but I just want to remind you guys if you like the podcast, please like, subscribe, and share the podcast so more people can listen to it. We do have lots of people listening to it. Um so more people, uh, the more chances people can hear about who Christ is and the awesomeness of who Jesus is. So um I will uh open up in prayer and then we'll dig into some background and then we'll jump into some scripture. We do verse by verse here, Woody. Um, so we'll just start in verse one, of course, chapter one, and then we'll just go through and see how much we can talk about today, and then somewhere we'll transition more back into your story. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

All right, perfect.

SPEAKER_04

All right. Um, so uh Lord, just uh thank you. Um thank you for this podcast. Thank you for um the heart that I have, the desire to uh more people listening uh about you and uh learning who you are. Um and uh Lord, you pursued me and now I'm pursuing you. And I just want more people to listen to that, and I just want them to pursue you. I listen and they you're pursuing them. I just I just would love for them to flip that and start loving you and pursuing you. And uh Lord, we just uh thank you and um let the Holy Spirit just speak through Woody and I, and uh hopefully someone is uh moved or touched by this message. So uh we love you. Amen.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

SPEAKER_04

So I got a little cheater here, and uh so give a little background. Um, we know Apostle Paul wrote the book of Ephesians. I didn't find anything out there that said no, he didn't, like some of the other books. Um they believe it was written, would he, around uh 80 60 to 62. Uh, they believe this was the time, kind of like the last book we did on Galatia. Galatia was written kind of um in when Paul was in prison. So they're thinking this is another prison gospel. Uh actually, when he was in prison in Rome, he uh would have written this. Um and uh he sent the uh letter to the churches in and around Ephesus. Um, Ephesus is actually in modern Turkey today. Um, it's a it was a major Roman hub, heavily influenced in a cult and the worship of Artemis. But it I was listening to some people talk, it was like a it was like a hub of different world religions, would be the I guess the correct way of saying it. The city, um Ephesus, Ephesus, Ephesus uh was very wealthy of the Roman providence of Asia, a lot of money there. It was a massive uh pilgrimage site dominated by the temple of Artemis, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. And the local culture was deeply superstitious and plagued by fear of a dark spiritual forces. Um, Paul's relationship during their third missionary journey. Paul spent roughly three years ministering in Ephesus, establishing a strong and enduring church presence. The imprisonment, Paul wrote this letter alongside Colossians, Ephesians, and Philippians uh Philemon during the first Roman imprisonment. The structure kind of works like this. Um, chapters one through three are very theological. Um, it talks about the one thing I really love talking about is Christ. It so a lot of Paul's letters. Have you noticed, Woody? The a lot of Paul's letters, he lays a foundation, like a foundation that you should believe in, and then he gradually builds on that and builds on it and builds on it. It's one thing when so this podcast, we've been through Colossians, we went through Galatians, and now we're doing Ephesians, and it just like in the previous two books, there's like this great foundation, and it points all back. He points Paul points everything back to Christ, everything about Jesus. Is that absolutely okay? Yeah, all right, absolutely, and then chapters four and six is kind of like your practical living type thing. He gives uh words of wisdom and then he hits that powerful thing at the end of chapter six is like close, right? So did I miss anything there?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I would say that it's a this is an interesting letter from the standpoint that a lot of his letters, when you get to the very end of the letter, he'll say um he's written it to a certain church and he'll say, Say hello to so and so. And he'll mention two or three names.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

People that he was connected with when he was there. Now, you know, Paul was the pastor here for a couple years. And yet there's no uh none of those personal greetings at the end.

SPEAKER_04

And and and just want to piggyback on that. Uh if you listen to last week's podcast when we went and did the close of Galatians, same thing. These are two books that he didn't really name a lot of people at the end or any. And usually that's the signature of his closing out books. He likes to thank a lot of people. He does go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so it so it causes it to stand out because it doesn't have those, you know, that personal naming of certain people. So that ties back to there are some early manuscripts of this book, some of the earliest manuscripts that don't have the word Ephesus in the first line. Oh, all right. Okay. And so we know for sure, I think it's valid to say to the saints at Ephesus, but we know for sure that this was a kind of circular letter. And so it was intended not just to be read at the church at Ephesus, but to these other churches that were nearby.

SPEAKER_04

And that's what I found in my notes that I shared. It was like a circular, they were just passing around an area.

SPEAKER_00

So rather than say, Hey, I just want to say hello to you know to Scott Blewitt, and nobody knows Scott Blewitt over at this other church.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00

There's I'm just gonna leave that stuff out and let them pass this pass it around.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So I think it was intended not just for one church, even though this is a hugely influential church, but also for all the churches of the region, just like Galatia.

SPEAKER_04

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Now Woody was sharing before we came on the podcast that he just recently um visited Ephesus.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

So would you like to tell the audience like um how's it is it how's the environment there? Is there a lot of trees? Is it airy?

SPEAKER_00

Is it it's a port. It's it's uh on the sea, it's okay. It's in Turkey.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And so So it's a port city.

SPEAKER_00

It's a port city.

SPEAKER_04

So it was a very major thoroughfare back then because mostly people were traveling by boat places, right? Exactly. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Now today, when you go there, the water has receded.

SPEAKER_04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00

So the sea is uh a few miles, a couple miles away from the ruins of the old city. But you can it's like you can see where the where it used to come come up and and be much closer to the current old city. But I I can just tell you this that that city of of Ephesus, if if you're ever over there, you're on a cruise that's gonna stop there, you're on a footsteps of Paul tour like I was. Um it is a fascinating, fabulous, maybe the most outside of Rome itself, the most well-preserved uh Roman city. You walk down the streets, I'm walking down Main Street, here's all the shops, and here's this, and here's the entire facade of the library, and here's the you know, here over here is where the Temple of Artemis was, and over here is the amphitheater. And it's just it's just giant and well preserved. It's huge. And talking about the wealth, there is a section of town um in Ephesus.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

That's um the wealthy section of town. And so um these are called the terrace houses.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And if you ever go to Ephesus, you have to go here now.

SPEAKER_04

A terrace house.

SPEAKER_00

Terrace Houses.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

All right. And you have to buy an extra ticket to go to see the the terrace houses. But you can tell right down there in the hub of the town where all the big action was, right? Right. Here are these here are these houses that went where there were terraced, right?

SPEAKER_07

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Just like a steps staircase. All right. And they've begun to excavate these things. You go in, okay, and you can see uh you walk on this um kind of like metal walkway, and you like are looking at at and the interior, and you can see these intricate uh mosaic floors that and incredible designs. You can see, you know, this house had a had a a fountain in the courtyard. This house had incredible art on the walls.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I'm talking about um that was stained onto the walls themselves.

SPEAKER_04

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Yeah. And so the net net is you could just tell that here it is thousands of years later. It's like these people had a lot of money. A lot of money, a lot of money. And so it just really brought home that it's like, yes, this was a this was very wealthy, very wealthy.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so this would be like Carmel by the sea.

SPEAKER_00

You might say that. Okay. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

So I looked up who Artemis is. Okay. So this helps us with the context and the who the people uh were because there's a huge temple there of Artemis. It's a multifaceted name deeply rooted in ancient mythology. Um, it was a Greek in ancient Greek religion, Artemis is an Olympian goddess of the hunt, the wilderness, wild animals, the moon, and chastity. Artemis is it says she is the daughter of Zeus and Leto and the twin sister of Apollo.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, there you go.

SPEAKER_04

Um, she carries a bow and an arrow, and is often associated with deer and the cypress tree.

SPEAKER_00

So now in in the book of Acts, yeah, is she referred to as Diana?

SPEAKER_04

Uh Diana's a different Greek goddess. Okay. Um, as far as my Greek knowledge.

SPEAKER_00

I have to admit, I'm not an expert on Greek mythology.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, Diana is a totally different god.

SPEAKER_00

All right.

SPEAKER_04

Um, so anyway, that touches on um who um might have they were they're in vol they're in that city, so that is the the big temple that's there. Uh that's who they're worshiping to. Um so they're being now taken out of that and then a worship of Christ. And so that is the background. So like if we understand a city, um, it would be like today, I know that has no comparison, but let's just say Indianapolis is the Indianapolis Colts or the Indiana Pacers. So like if you were in Texas and you were to say, hey, you know, Indianapolis Colts, they would know immediately what they're talking about. So like if you said you were from the church or from the city of Ephesus, they would be like, Oh, that's where that big, huge temple is for Artemis. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00

Also, um, and I know you're probably gonna get to this, but uh no, key here is the fact of how much time Paul spent there.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it was a strategic city. He went there, he started a church, he did this, he stayed there.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He was there on a couple different occasions, but once for a couple years.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, three times did he visit the city.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

So he has close ties, close ties to the people. He knows them personally, perquire, and they would be very uh knowledgeable of him. And uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So so you'll see in this letter, unlike some others, he's not like defending himself in this letter. No, because the people know him so well, he was their pastor. Yeah, he's and so ten years later he's writing this letter, right? It's like the the pastor from ten years ago is writing a letter, yes, you know, back to the church, except that he's an apostle.

SPEAKER_04

Right, yeah. So let's uh dive into this first verse. It says Paul and an apostle, and I'm reading now the New American Standard. Um, it says Paul and an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God to the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus. All right, so we'll take a little pause here. First get-go, we see Paul, right? This is no doubt in my mind and Woody's mind. Paul wrote this book right there. He says, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God. When you hear that by the will of God, Woody, what do you think that is referencing?

SPEAKER_00

I think that the Lord uh looked down through time and he elected certain people to have very, very special jobs. It's not about salvation, it's about service. There are some very strategic jobs in God's kingdom. Apostle was one of them. So and so here's a guy who's a persecutor of the church, and and God radically intervenes in his life on the road to Damascus.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so the only thing he can say is, look, I'm I'm here because of the will of God.

SPEAKER_04

It's like I didn't I didn't choose to do this, I didn't grow up in this.

SPEAKER_00

This isn't right.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so like going back to the road of Damascus, Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus and he had a conversion there.

SPEAKER_00

No doubt.

SPEAKER_04

Because Jesus wanted him to spread the gospel to the Gentiles. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

And that is what he's referring to here by the will of God, because it wasn't his will, it was the will of God that did this that made him an apostle.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. So it's not just that he's saved, it's that he's an apostle.

SPEAKER_04

And in today's world, and we'll get this, I think they're in Ephesians that talks about spiritual gifts, but um, I think it does. But anyway, where like everybody is gifted into something. Like um some people might say, I'm gifted in teaching, uh, you're gifted in preaching. Um, some people have, and then some people have a couple different gifts. So um, but anyway, so he's just saying, I'm an apostle of Christ Jesus, and he's like, Because of God.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

And then and then we see because context matters and background matters, and he addresses right from the get-go in verse one who the letter is written to. Yep. And it's written to saints. So saints aren't people that who are dead, these are people who uh are believers, and they are part of the church of Ephesus. Did I say that right, Woody?

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

See, Woody's here. Like, if I get out of hand, if I get diverted on the left or right road, he's gonna bring me right back. And then, and then he points out not only is he writing to the believers, but he's writing specific specifically to the faithful.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

Meaning they didn't waver, meaning, meaning they didn't fall away or they didn't go back to the church of Artemis or the temple there. They are being faithful and true to who Christ is, kind of like Abraham. Abraham was the father of faith, right? He's uh he was faithful because he believed who the Lord was, and he was like, Okay, I'm in.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same thing, same thing here. So um, faithful, and the key here who are faithful in Christ Jesus. So 100% no doubt in my mind that he's writing to believers and to the faithful believers, am I correct?

SPEAKER_00

I agree. And then he gets to this critical in Christ, and this is this whole in Christ or in him is going to become a key that unlocks the rest of this uh there is chapter.

SPEAKER_04

If you're a highlighter person, my friend is a highlighter person. I've got a friend that has he'll come to study on Friday's Woody. Oh, and Woody's a highlighter person. Okay, so my friend, he he has uh so many highlighters for Friday study, he puts them in a cup. And he's got different colors. There you go. All right, so if you're a highlighter person, you want to highlight in him, in Jesus, in Christ Jesus, but you also I'm gonna add to you're gonna want to highlight us and you because that's gonna be that's gonna be some very powerful things in this chapter. Correct. And I think if you understand in him, us and you, then you're really gonna smoke this chapter.

SPEAKER_02

Totally.

SPEAKER_04

Totally, totally, all right. Totally. So I got I got I got Woody on a hook right now, man. I got I guess I got the teacher. I got Woody just reeled in right here. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

No, you got your first did you hear that?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So is that an agreement?

SPEAKER_00

It must be. It's just like I spontaneously when when you got to the whole thing about about in him and us and you especially.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yeah, yeah. And um, there's a lot of um he, his, him, um, and understanding who the he is, understanding his is, understanding us, and understanding you are very important because what most believers are gonna do, or most people that read this uh first chapter, they just read it and they they skim it, they don't really dive into it and understand. Paul is very um highly educated as far as writing, and he's very intentional as far as pronouns, um, nouns, and verbs, and he's very intentional. So if you don't understand those, you need to pay attention to them. So that's all I will we'll get into that in just a second. So it says, Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. So I've we've been this is usually his tagline, how he starts most books, Grace and Peace. If you want to summarize that, we've done this on the podcast. They've heard what I had to say on previous books. Grace and peace. Is it intended that way to be in that order, or does it really matter?

SPEAKER_00

Well, these these, yes, you're right. It's a standard opening, Karas and Shalom. Um, this this um uh grace and peace. Um, I think there's an argument that it that the the order is strategic, but the devotional uh the devotional idea behind it, more than an exegetical idea, is how comforting it is to know that God's grace is always with me no matter what. Right. And that the peace of God that surpasses all understanding is part of the gift of salvation.

SPEAKER_04

Amen. I I'm over here. Oh let me hold on. We're in a let me see if I can do this. Oh, I did it. So there you go. Woody's got me uh doing something here. All right, so there you go.

SPEAKER_00

No, that's it, man. We live in an absolute stressful world and disturb we get our spirits get disturbed, we and then we do things that are boneheaded and whatever, and somehow grace is still there waiting on us. The peace of God beckons us. It's like, wow, wow, just to say to you, I pray that grace and peace would be yours. Yeah, that's a powerful thing.

SPEAKER_04

It's very powerful, and um you understand like grace is uh so this is I don't know too many acronyms. I've shared this before. Yep, God's riches at Christ's expense. Correct. And it's open, it's freely given, and there is no limit. Doesn't make me go out and just do a bunch of sinning so I can get grace and grace and grace, but um, I don't need that because I sin anyway. Or excuse me, my flesh does. It doesn't have a a pro I don't it doesn't no one ever taught me how to sin, right?

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

But what I do need is grace.

SPEAKER_02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

Because grace will bring me back to Christ.

SPEAKER_02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

And grace will keep me from wanting to go out, and and and that's where where we closed in Galatians, where you choose to walk by the flesh or walk by the spirit. And as you spiritually mature, or you're on that path of sanctification, um, then you will understand why you when something comes up, you're like, Oh, I don't need to do that. I'm choosing to uh live here in Christ and not in my flesh.

SPEAKER_00

And someone has said that grace, like with Euro acrostic, um God's riches at Christ's expense. Somebody has said that grace is getting what you don't deserve and mercy is not getting what you deserve.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. I've heard that one too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, grace and peace to you from God the Father.

SPEAKER_04

And peace only comes through Christ.

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_04

And that's only the way best I can explain it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You cannot have well, that's why Jesus said, My peace I give to you.

SPEAKER_04

Right. You can't have peace without knowing who Christ is.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, because peace or Christ will give you peace. If you're searching for peace and everything that seems disarray in your life and you need peace, lean in on Christ, pursue him with all your heart, mind, and soul. Yeah, you'll get so much peace. People will be like, What is going on with you? Why are you why are you not stressed out? Why are you why what's going on? Why you just seem calm, you're peaceful. Um, but anyway, um, we regress. So verse three, it says, Blessed be the God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. Man, this is all right. This is an amazing verse here. We're going to go through some really amazing verses and a lot of good stuff here. So, first off, he is reminding them that they are blessed and they have every spiritual blessing that they will ever need because of Christ. It isn't count your blessings because you will have so many blessings in the spiritual realm, not physical. Okay. Spiritually, you have all the blessings you ever need in Christ. And he is trying to let them know and remind them hey, you're blessed. You have everything you need in Christ. Did I miss something there, Witty?

SPEAKER_00

No, you're right. And this is the first kind of shot across the bow at the um the the opulence and the wealth of of the of the city of Ephesus. They are rich in in humanly speaking.

SPEAKER_04

Great point here, because this is where context really matters, guys. Um this is where context matters because this is a super wealthy city. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so he's coming along and saying, hey, look, um, you have, as believers in Christ, whatever your station in life, whatever your job, whatever your menial situation you might find yourself in in this opulent city, this wealthy city, you've got it all in Christ. You've got every spiritual blessing you could possibly want. And he's saying And later he's gonna just talk about the riches of God's grace. I mean, it's just he keeps kind of piling on those little words. Those little words about the wealth of what we have as believers spiritually.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and he's pointing it all back in the heavenly places with Christ.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That is where all our blessings, those are greater blessings than the blessings here on earth.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And he's reminding them that. That's great, Woody. And it says, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him in love. Or in him. Almost there's a period there. So I'll explain this the best I can, and then Woody's going to talk about this as well. But God had a plan for set from the very beginning. He knew if he put he created humans, that humans are gonna screw this up, and that's what happened in the garden. But he had a plan. He had a plan how redemption was going to be a key, and how he can bring all peoples back to him. That's even talked about in Abraham when Abraham, when he spoke to Abraham and said, Hey, you're gonna be a father of a great nation, but you also are gonna be the father of many nations. It was said from the beginning. The plan was for everyone. Oh my gosh, I'm getting goosebumps just sitting here. The plan was for everyone, it was for all nations, it just wasn't for a select few, it wasn't just for the Jewish people. The plan from the beginning when he talked to Abraham was all people. It says, Your offspring is gonna be a great nation, great nation. But then the greater plan in that same verse in Genesis 12 says, and I think it's even in verse three, says, Many nations, you're gonna be the father of many nations of all nations, and this is where most people miss. So he had a plan. Christ brought us back into the family because the whole testament's all about the Jewish people and how they wash, rinse, and repeat. Wash, rinse, and repeat the whole cycle. I love God, I don't love God, I love this person, I love this other little G. Oh, nope. I now I love God. If you read the whole Old Testament, that's it. That's God's version summary. It's uh they love God, they don't, they love God, they don't. And then at the right moment, God put Jesus here on earth to redeem to for the ultimate sacrifice. It was his blood that gave us for forgiveness. He had to be the sacrifice, he gave his son to do that for us. That was the plan, and it was laid out from the beginning of time to now, and we're in that now, we're still in that. So that is where I get that he chose us. So the us there is who? The believers, the church. He had a plan for the church. We are his bride. We are we are the bride, he's the bridegroom. And and he had that plan, and the plan was carried out. We know that Christ died, he rose again, now he's we're gonna talk about that in a minute, that he's sitting at the right hand of the Father. Um, that we because of Christ now are blameless before him because we have Christ, and this is who he's talking to, the believers there. And I think some people get um caught up in, well, he picked me and he didn't pick you, which is kind of weird to me because there's no security in that, and I really believe in security. I believe if you believe in Christ, you have faith, and then you trust in that, uh, in the unseen, you're in that, you're secure. But if you say, Well, he didn't pick me and he didn't, how would I know if he picked me? That would be my question to them. How do I know? And I've asked that, and they said, Well, you don't find out until you go to heaven. And so anyway, um, go ahead, Woody. Did I miss something?

SPEAKER_00

I just add, I think that's a great job. The uh we're to the third time now of uh this idea of in Christ. Yeah. In him.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So we're we're just a a few words into verse four, and we're into the third time we've had in Christ, saints in Christ, the spiritual blessings in the heavens in Christ. Now he's chosen us in him. So some people are looking at this word and a word that's going to come up later, and it really spooks uh kind of spooks them. It's like uh it's like, oh, you know, God is choosing like individuals. Choosing winners and losers. Correct. Winners and losers. Eternal, eternal winners and losers.

SPEAKER_04

That's how they say it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And the the um when you look at this passage, it it is about choosing what becomes of people in Christ, their character, their destiny. It's not about who gets saved and who doesn't get saved. He has chosen, look what it says verse in verse 4, he's chosen everybody who's in Christ to be holy and blameless before him. In other words, he decided everybody who comes to Christ as Savior is going to be holy and blameless in my sight.

SPEAKER_04

So it would be the church.

SPEAKER_00

That's the church. The believers, the believer, everybody who's trusted in Christ.

SPEAKER_04

Or you want to go back to verse one, saints.

SPEAKER_00

The saints.

SPEAKER_04

You is or you ain't. And if you're if you is, then you're on the great side of all this stuff that we're about to talk about. If you ain't, you're not blameless and holy.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. So the great news is that there's a holiness, there's a blamelessness. You like you look at my own life, and I say, Well, wait a second, what are you talking about? I'm not holy, I'm not blameless, but it's the it's the garment of Jesus Christ that's put on to me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, uh I refer. That is um it's not a feeling and it it's your identity. And once you accept Christ in your heart, you are at that moment been washed, cleansed, and that one word forgiven, past, future, and present sins, you're you're blameless, you're clean, that's who you are. Now, some people want to define people of their behavior, but that's not who you are if you're a believer. You are, but as you grow in your faith, the behavior is starting to match with the spirit who lives inside us, which we're going to get to in just a minute. I mean, all this stuff is just it's awesome. But first off, he lays out that if you are in him, us, we're in him, you're holy and blameless. In him is the very thing. So if you're a highlighter person, just highlight that. And then also if you use a different color marker like Woody did on his, you just want to highlight us. But the he there is God, and him is Christ. It's very important there. Um, just as he, God, chose us in him, Christ. Um, again, the very next verse, it goes, in love, in love, okay. So that's a key here when we go into this big theological word. In love, he press he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00

Like anytime you use the word predestined, it should be like the Jaws theme.

SPEAKER_04

Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun predestined.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, this is one of those Christian words that people don't really want to talk about.

SPEAKER_04

Um so it says, predestine us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself according to the kind intention of his will. All right. The key word there too, it says in love, he predestined. So if he predestined us and he picked us losers and winners, where is love in that?

SPEAKER_00

It's not there.

SPEAKER_03

If I'm here and I'm gonna pick my favorite son or daughter, and I pick, oh I'll just throw this out.

SPEAKER_04

I'll pick my daughter. I say my daughter's my favorite, and then what do you think my son's gonna feel like? Rejected, not loved.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

So I'm just using this as an example, it's a perfect example because we're all God's children. He wants us to accept him and and believe in him, believe in Christ, which was the ministry. So if he didn't do it out of if he did it in love, then you have a choice. You have a choice. You you have a choice, you can accept it or not, you can accept Christ or not. But the alternative to that, like I said, is oh, I got my favorite daughter, and then my son's over here, he's not my favorite. But do I still love him? Because you well, you know, he's gonna feel like he's not loved if you're not picked as the favorite. But in this, if you believe in love, which I do, then he wants every one to accept him, but he knows that there aren't gonna be people that accept him because that's what Jesus said. The gate is very narrow because there's gonna be a lot of people that don't accept who Jesus is. Do I miss that?

SPEAKER_00

No, you're exactly right. The um this word I just found through the years as a pastor, like people get freaked out about this word predestined, and it always goes to the idea of, you know, well, God has predestined some people to be saved, and some people are not going to be saved. And, you know, do you believe in predestination? You know, they'll ask. And that's their idea that predestination must must have to do with saved or not saved. And yet, that's not what this verse is about. That's not what this verse is about.

SPEAKER_04

Because if you read the con it continually, it says predestined us. So who's the us?

SPEAKER_02

Believers.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, to adoption as sons right through Jesus Christ to him, yep. Self. So I'm if if I've been adopted, it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

But if I've been adopted, Woody, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it means you become an heir.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00

You become part of the family.

SPEAKER_04

And you do that because the person who adopted you loves you.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. And so God decided ahead of time there was a destiny for all who trust in Christ, and that would be is they become part of God's family.

SPEAKER_04

It's all about family.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

That was the whole thing going back to the garden. He wanted a family. He wanted Adam and Eve to be in his family. What was the thing that the serpent said to Eve? You eat of this fruit. You become a like us. Like us. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Like a god.

SPEAKER_04

Like a god, right? And it it took them out of the family, and now he's trying to put us back into the family, adopt us back.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. So I had this uh when I was in seminary years ago, um, so I had this big class on theology, and it was the hardest professor in the hardest class. And so, but one day this uh this professor asked us all, okay, if you had to just summarize the whole thing in one word, what's the Bible about? And so we're all theology students, we're coming up with, you know, big theology words, you know, whatever. And he kept saying, No, no, no, no. And we're like, you know, what if it's not this, it's not this. And so finally he said, Well, it seems like you guys need to know the word. We're like, right, well, what is it? And he said, The word is relationship.

SPEAKER_04

Relationship is huge.

SPEAKER_00

That's it. Because relationship again is about the relationship.

SPEAKER_04

Yep. And relationship also has participation. But anyway, that's a side note. Uh so side note. So anyway, we um we this is great conversation. I hope you feel the same way. So then it says, according to kind intention of his will. In Romans it says, the kindness leads us to repentance. Oh kindness re leads us to repentance, which this is Scott, that's his will.

SPEAKER_03

He wants you to repent and to join the family.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

I'm sorry. That's that's the whole thing. I'm sorry. I was this is this is so good. This is really good, man. I'm getting jacked.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so listen, this is why Ephesians 1 is my favorite chapter.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it is. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, just phrase after phrase, word after word. Just uh so rich.

SPEAKER_04

And then it goes into six, Woody. It says, to the peace of the glory of his grace. To the praise. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Oh, okay. To the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the beloved. Oh, what's the beloved? That must be Jesus. Oh, okay. So it's not us, it's Jesus. That's where the praise goes to.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

Am I right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Southwest Georgia to me. That's easy to. I mean, I'm not, I'm just picking out, I'm just reading it, and I'm just, it says, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the beloved, meaning grace upon grace.

SPEAKER_00

I like uh Christian standard version I've got tonight, and it's it says, He lavished right, his glorious grace that he lavished on us.

SPEAKER_04

Lavish is a word that us Westerners don't use. I never, I don't think I've ever I've used the word lavish recently. I have not used the word lavish at all. Yeah. Uh what would what would be a um definition of lavish?

SPEAKER_00

Lavish would be like um if I let's go to let's go to biscuits and gravy.

SPEAKER_04

Biscuits and gravy? Right. So that's so good. Oh, that's lavish.

SPEAKER_00

You weren't skimpy about it?

SPEAKER_04

There you go.

SPEAKER_00

You yeah, you'd be lavish. You'd be lavish.

SPEAKER_04

So he's just pouring it out. He's just pouring it out grace on grace on grace. Correct. So this is uh, you know, we got these little handheld phones, and I can go and work up, look up the word lavish.

SPEAKER_00

Lavish? What does it say?

SPEAKER_04

It says lavish describes something that is extravagant, rich, or given in great, unmeasured abundance.

SPEAKER_00

There you go. Oh my gosh, dude.

SPEAKER_04

So gravy, the gravy. The gravy, the gravy, more gravy, more gravy, more gravy. So there's this place in town called uh vicious biscuit. And I asked for extra gravy. Oh, yeah. Because I want to be lavished.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_04

All right.

SPEAKER_00

So he took grace and he just took that ladle ladle and he lavished it on us.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm. That's amazing. That's awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_00

You can run out of it, dude.

SPEAKER_04

That preaches every day, all day, every day, and even on Sunday. Every day. Uh, so in verse seven, okay, key key again. If you're a highlighter person in him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished on us in all wisdom and insight. So there we go. So we have redemption. So if you go back to that one verse, the kindness leads to repentance, and you have redemption in him. So if you believe in Christ, you believe in Christ, we have been redeemed only because of the blood. You can't take that out. It's right there in black and white. You can't take blood out and insert whatever you want to start insert. It's right there. You don't have to be highly educated. You read it. It's the blood that gave us the forgiveness of our trespasses, and those trespasses are past, present, and future trespasses. It's just not only in the past, he's going to do that for all our trespasses, according to the riches of what? Of his grace. Of his grace, right? And again, no one needs to teach me how to sin. And I don't need to go out and sin, sin, sin, so I get more grace, more grace. There's it's kind of stupid. It's um in Romans it says, absolutely not. Why would you want to do that? Because if you know the love uh of Jesus, you wouldn't want to do that. You don't want to hurt your brother over and over again, or your mom, or your dad. It's just kind of that analogy. Which he lavish on us in all wisdom and insight. He may known to us the mystery of his will according to his what? Kind intention which he proposed in him. So you want to talk about that a little bit? May known to us the mystery.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think you have to keep reading to get what the mystery is. Okay. And then we can look at it. Circle back, circle back, loop the whole thing. Okay, so the mystery of his will uh I think has to do with really three things. Number one, when you talk about a mystery, we're not talking about something like um um it cannot be discovered or whatever, but it's like something that people didn't know until God revealed it. They didn't really get it. Well, what they didn't get initially was that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone, he's he's the savior, he's the Lord.

SPEAKER_04

So you're saying in the whole Old Testament, the the mystery was hidden that Yahweh was going to be Christ.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

And the word was Christ.

SPEAKER_02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

And Christ was in from Genesis one all the way through. He's all the way through the whole thing. And it was a mystery to everyone and was a mystery to Paul until that Damascus Road.

SPEAKER_00

I think and the people who studied the Old Testament most, yeah, in in the in Jerusalem, they never did get it. No, they just couldn't they couldn't figure it out. He's right in front of them.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Never never figured it out, never put two and two equals floor four.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So that so mystery number one was that Jesus Christ, everything pointed to Jesus. He's the savior, he's the Lord, right?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Number two mystery is that there's more people who are loved by God than just Israel.

SPEAKER_04

Well, that goes back to Genesis 12. Correct. Where it says, and I said this earlier, correct. Abraham was going to be, his offspring is going to be a father, or he's going to be a father of a great nation.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

But then they forgot the next thing he said that he was going to be a father of all nations. Correct. So if all nations, that means those are people that weren't Jewish.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. And so right here in this book, in this chapter, he's going to get to this very idea that hey, wait, you guys who are Gentiles, you guys are all also in on this. But I'm telling you, you read the book of Acts, even the early church kind of struggled with this idea that that Gentiles could be saved.

SPEAKER_04

Well, the the crazy thing is But that was mystery number two.

SPEAKER_00

There's a third. There's a third.

SPEAKER_04

Going back to the first mystery who Christ was, Stephen stood in front of the Sanhedrin and told them where Christ was through the whole Old Testament and how they missed it and how they were just crusty old dudes.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

And they stiff necked. Stiffnecked is what the word was. Yep. But anyway, mystery two. So let's go to mystery three.

SPEAKER_00

There was Mystery three is right here in this text that there's coming a day when Jesus Christ is going to return.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Okay. And it's going to all be physically under his rulership right here on this earth. He's going to merge the things in heaven and on earth right here. And he's going to have his family, those who've trusted in him, right? And he's going to bring it all together. The conclusion of all of history will be in Jesus Christ. All right. Mystery number three.

SPEAKER_04

This is all great.

SPEAKER_00

Behind window curtain number three, we have the return of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. So that is what um verse 10 is talking about. The third mystery. The third mystery. And if you keep on, it says after the period, because period the period, sometimes these whoever did the editing and the verses and chapters, you would think you would end a verse in a period.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, don't get me started.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay. So anyway, that was a side note. That was a Scott thing. Okay. So now if you pick up No, the chapter breaks. Oh the chapter breaks irritate me. But um, and people that are in um on Friday mornings and in study, I this irritates me. But so in this, it says, in him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been having been predestined according to all to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will, comma, to the end that we were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of his glory. This is kind of when I read this, I I was like, okay, we were the first to hope in Christ. Well, I again I'm reminded when I read the Bible, it's not written to me, it's written for me. When I read this, I'm like, well, I wasn't the first person to hope in Christ. So what does that refer to? So then he changes it that we, because there's not been a we up to this point. So the we, hmm, the we has to be the Jewish people. Because the if you go back to Acts, like what he's saying, Acts, if you go to Acts and you read Acts 2, the Spirit was poured out on the Jewish people. And some people miss this, but in chapter 10, I believe, that's where the spirit was poured out on the first Gentile, who is Cornelius.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And I would even wind it back before that. Because as you begin to put the the whole context of this uh first chapter together, when you go all the way back up to verse four, and it says, For he chose us in him, right? Right. It's certainly true that God has chosen all believers, right? Everybody who's in Christ. But in a very specific sense, Paul, the apostle, is writing, and he's using a word here, choose. He chose God chose us. And if you trace that word in the gospels, six different times that word is used specifically of Jesus choosing his disciples. He walked beside the sea seashore, he he chose people, he called them up on the mountain, he chose the twelve, right? He says, I chose all of you, but one of you is the devil. You know, you did not choose me, I chose you. All those verses, that same exact word, he's talking about those who are the first to be the followers of Jesus, his own disciples. And so these are all Jewish men. It was to the Jew first and then to the Greek, right?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So he's chosen these people. They were the very first to hope in Christ. Then it expands to other Jewish believers, the 72, then the 120, then the 3,000 on Pentecost Day.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right. All people who are in Jews who are in town, right, to celebrate the feast. Right. So here's this outpouring on the Jewish people. And so they're the first. These people are the first to trust in Christ.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now he's going to say in verse 13, now you He flips it.

SPEAKER_04

Right. He flips it from us to you. So you got to understand who that because then it says, in him you. All right. So now you've heard us, you've heard we. Now you hear you. So in an English word, or in the um English world, you could be singular or you could be plural. Am I saying that right, Woody? So you gotta understand who the you is. Is it you personally or is it you as a uh group of people?

SPEAKER_00

It's you as a group of people.

SPEAKER_04

It's you gentiles.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's it it's uh it's you who heard the gospel in Ephesus when I preach there, and I'm writing this letter to you, and by extension, Gentiles in general.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. So it says in him, you also are reminding them.

SPEAKER_00

Right. This is mystery number two, right? It's not just about the Jews, it's gonna be about the Gentiles also.

SPEAKER_04

It says, after listening the message of truth, the message of truth, who Jesus is, the God it says, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed you were sealed. In him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to redemption of God's own possession to the praise of his glory. Okay. You listened, received the message, and you believed the message, which was the gospel, which led you to your salvation. Because if you believe in Jesus and you listen, you believe, you have faith, you trust what you hear, you trust what you can't see. None of them, a lot of them didn't ever see Jesus, but they believed. What did they get? They were sealed with the Holy Spirit. Praise God.

SPEAKER_00

Praise God. So this is so strong because here in verse 13, he basically all the way up until this point, he's talking about the people who are in Christ and all the things that they get, right? They get to be holy and blameless, they get to be forgiven, they get to be redeemed, they have grace that's lavished out on them, all of these different things. And then he says, you also, that word also is pretty, in other words, just you also are going to get in on all these things. And you get to participate in the party. You get to be part of it. And why? Because you were somehow predestined? No, because you heard the gospel just like we did. Oh, God didn't pick you, but no, you you heard the gospel, right? And when you heard it, you believed it. And when you believed it, you became part of us because you got sealed with the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_04

Sealed with the Holy Spirit. If you seal something, does that mean it can leave you?

SPEAKER_00

It cannot.

SPEAKER_04

Ooh. Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_00

It's hermetically sealed.

SPEAKER_04

It's what?

SPEAKER_00

Hermetically.

SPEAKER_04

So I think we're gonna ruffle some feathers tonight. But if it says sealed, I'm from Southwest Georgia. If I seal something, I seal an envelope, it's sealed. If I put a seal on something, I put a stamp on it, that stamp is there. And you know you're a believer because you have the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_04

And as you grow in your faith, you'll know who the Holy Spirit is more and more, and you get to hear you know his voice. That's right.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Amen. Because it was promised. Yeah. Christ promised the seal back in that day. Remember, they had these seals.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, today um there are these decorative things. You can get like your initial or something.

SPEAKER_04

You could put wax and well, you probably have the the bath towels that have your initials on them, would you?

SPEAKER_00

Right, exactly. Yeah. So kind of like that. So um, but back in the day, that was a big deal. Yeah. It was the authentic, you know, the to to have that seal was uh was an authenticator. It suggested protection, right? Security, that it shouldn't be violated, right? And possession.

SPEAKER_04

And and you're sealed, and then the very next word or verse it says, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance. Yep. Pledge. So if if I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, I'm pledging that I am an American. I'm pledging that that, right? If you receive the Holy Spirit, that is the pledge of the inheritance, which is the riches of Christ, lives inside you.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And this this pledge is also like uh a down payment.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

On a on a future full inheritance.

SPEAKER_04

Full inheritance.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. You've got it all now spiritually. You're gonna have it um in full, you're gonna realize the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04

And then one day we're gonna have it spiritually and physically. Correct. But right now it's just spiritually. But because the Holy Spirit was given to us as a pledge for us to understand in the spiritual. But here's the crazy thing is if you're not pursuing Christ and you're not growing in your faith, you will never really experience the pledge. I'm sorry if I touched you, if I walked on some toes there. If you're not pursuing him and growing in him, and that could be reading the word, that could be praying, that could be whatever you want, okay. If you're not making him a priority, then you're not gonna understand who you're not gonna really experience the pledge. You're not going to really experience who the Holy Spirit is. The Holy Spirit's gonna be saying things to you all the time, but you have no idea who the Holy Spirit is, and that's where you get confusion on okay, is this my thought? Is this the thought of the Holy Spirit? But you will understand when the Holy Spirit talks to you, he's a he's given it. If God is in love, then the things that they he communicates to you through the Holy Spirit will be out of love. Uh it's not gonna be out of convicting you something, it's out of love. He's not gonna make you feel like a piece of crap or have feel guilty, or anyway. I just went on sideword. Sorry, I used the C word. All right, so um, anyway, I get I get it. I get it's just it get it riles me up. It it does. Um I think this is a good breaking point in the I'll just make one more point back to the text about in him. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

One of the things I used to teach about Bible study is that is that God has his own, God has his own highlighter. He has a highlighter. You mentioned earlier that I had, you know, I have a highlighter, your friends have texts highlighted. Well, God has a way of highlighting, and the way he highlights is through repetition.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Anytime you see something repeated over and over, it's it's him highlighting it, saying, Hey, this is pay attention to this. This is like the main That's a great point.

SPEAKER_04

That's a great point because in the Old Testament, the Jewish people, when they see holy, holy, holy, correct, that's very important.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. That's right. And so um in the New Testament, truly, truly, something like that. But here we've got in him or in Christ or in the beloved, like 13 times or something in 14 verses, right? 10 or 11, 12 times. I can't I didn't count them, but like every every other verse, there's there's in him, there's in him, there's in the beloved, there's in Christ. It's like, okay, this is about being in Christ. This is pretty important that we trust and we we find ourselves in Christ in this life and in the next.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And why wait to the next life? Experience it now. It's so it's so wonderful to experience him in this world now. Um so Woody, uh we we heard how you accepted Christ as a a boy in uh church in uh Florida? How did it how did that progress to one day being a pastor and leading a small congregation or a large congregation? How did that transition? Was it did you did you sense a calling on your life? Did you how how did that work out? Or did you get affirmation from people? Or how did that work out? How did that work for you?

SPEAKER_00

It's kind of an interesting story to me. I don't know who else it'll be interesting to, but yeah, I know that there's some guys that are like from a from the time they're a teenager, they're like, I want to preach. Well, that wasn't me at all. And in fact, because I didn't grow up in the church, I'll tell you a story. The church that I came to know Christ in um had like this recreation center, right? Had a basketball court.

SPEAKER_04

Sounds like my home church, but anyway, where I grew up.

SPEAKER_00

Back in the day, those were much more popular, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So had the ping pong tables, had all that stuff, right?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, well, they call that a family life center.

SPEAKER_00

Correct, correct, that's right. So I remember when that thing was built anyway, and it had a little snack thing where you get some hot dogs or some chips or whatever. So some of my friends and I, when we were teenagers, I'd come to know Christ, I'm sitting in there, we're talking, we're inside the church, we're basically right. This is the part of the church property. These are all Christian guys. We're not having a non-Christian conversation, we're inside the church. And yet, when one of the pastors would walk through, everything would change. The whole atmosphere would change. And it kind of dawned on me that um nobody's really real around a pastor. Right? We gotta really clean up the house, we gotta make our best meal, we've gotta right. There's there's there's there's a something, there's a uh around the pastor. And so I didn't want any part of that. Because how am I gonna relate to people if nobody's gonna be real? Right? So one of the power, one of the power of your of your podcast right here, Scott, what you guys are doing is that you guys are not pastors, right? And in an ordained sense, right? And right, you don't come on here saying you're pastors. And so there's a certain uh authenticity then that people ascribe to that, right? So anyway, and I didn't want anything to do with it. So when I'm a teenager, when I was in a junior, uh Disney World opened. Maybe when I was a sophomore, but this is when I was a junior. Disney World had opened in Orlando, Florida. And so they had a big conference at the First Baptist Church in Orlando called a church vocations conference. Basically, this was like a job fair for Christian jobs.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And so what they did was they brought college ministries and high school ministries to this conference.

SPEAKER_04

And how old were you at this time?

SPEAKER_00

I was I was a junior in high school. Okay. So we the big deal was we were gonna go to Disney World. That's why we all went.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So we had to sit through these lectures, these preachers, and they would say, you know, they would preach some sermon, they would say, You should you should come up here and give your life to ministry.

SPEAKER_07

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You should surrender to the ministry. And anyway, then we would go to this um their fellowship hall, basically. And they had all these kiosks of these different jobs. I didn't know there were different jobs. I thought the only job was preach.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Well, anyway, so then we would go to Disney World.

SPEAKER_03

Hold on a second, I'll take a drink.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm going through these I'm going through these kiosks, and there's a guy there from Mission Aviation Fellowship. I grew up in an Air Force family. I grew up going to the flight line.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to be a pilot. Sure. Right? Yeah. And am a pilot now, uh just you know, private pilot, but so I'm like, no way. They had the little video of planes flying into the bush and taking missionary supplies. I'm like, no way. You can fly a plane for Jesus. Like, there's no way.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So then I'm walking around, I get to this other one. I was like the editor of the school newspaper, and it had this whole thing about Christian publishing and all the layout and the design and the editing and all that. And I'm like, no way. It's like I had no idea you could do all these different things. It's like I want to serve Jesus. I don't want anything to do with being a pastor, but I I want to serve Jesus. And so we go into the big auditorium. The dude stands up there and preaches, says, you guys need to come down here and surrender to the ministry. Right? Boom, I'm down there, right? So to be what? To be like a pilot for Jesus, to be like a publisher for Jesus.

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So I go home, they stand me in front of the church and say, he's surrendered to the ministry, right? Everybody's like, you're gonna be a great preacher. I'm like, no. Anyway, I I say all this, there's several steps after this, but I I just want to say this about how God leads our lives. Um He has a way of taking us, you know, two degrees, right? Right, three degrees, five degrees, like slowly but surely, God takes us on a course, right? And it's seldom is it a straight path. It's like one of those amazing putts that you see sometimes in a golf tournament where the guy hits it seeming like away from the hole almost and it does this big arcing turn and comes all the way back to the hole.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

God has a way of does of steering our lives. And God just needed that was the initial stroke. He God needed to get me into the journey of saying, I will follow him and serve him. And one thing after another led to eventually being on church staff and being a pastor.

SPEAKER_04

That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. And it was uh aviation and then um doing uh publishing, publishing, graduating design, that kind of thing. Yeah. That got you in. Yep. And then once you got in, it was like, oh no, you're supposed to be doing this. Correct. Okay, all right, right.

SPEAKER_00

So he has a way.

SPEAKER_04

All right. What's one thing that you've learned if you once you leave this earth, what is the one thing you wish people would know?

SPEAKER_00

I I asked this question to a guy that was the leader, leader, um, whatever he was called, the director of the youth with a mission base in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And he just happened to be in town, was visiting our church, and I asked him that very question.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

What would be the one thing? And he said, Well, the one thing without a doubt that people need to know, and you've already touched on it, Scott. They need to know how to hear the voice of God.

SPEAKER_04

Wow, I did not know that. I I you never shared that. I was I just I've been on this little thing here recently about my friend and I, we have these conversations. Like, how do you know if this thought is from the Holy Spirit? Amen. And does the Holy Spirit actually speak to you? Because the one thing I I know this is all about you, is this section, I don't want to rob it, but the one thing that I think the church doesn't do a really good job at is how you listen to the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04

Because then you're and this is what I said to my friend, because my friend's all about like be doing more than this, and I don't understand why. And I'm like, well, I think the reason why people don't do this, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is, and you don't hear a lot of people teaching people how to listen to the Holy Spirit, is because, well, do you really think that that was the Holy Spirit, Woody? How do you know? How do you know that that wasn't you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

How do you know? Because uh that could have been your flesh talking to you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well, I can tell you this. The good news is the that you can know is that your flesh never wants to glorify God, your flesh never wants to to serve God, your flesh never wants to share the gospel, right? So if it's like the scripture says, like if it's if it's noble, if it's trustworthy, right? If it right, so if it lines up with scripture, if it lines up, it's like, okay, that must not be my flesh. That didn't come from my flesh. So that either came from the redeemed me, the mind of Christ within me, the spirit of God within me, or this is the Lord speaking to me about this particular moment. Either way, I'm on the fair way of God's will in my life.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I uh I shared this to my friend. He was he and I were talking, and I said, I was listening, I was in church service. This was a couple of weeks ago, and I'm without a job, and I've been pursuing a job, and um I really wanted this one job.

SPEAKER_03

Really did. Hadn't been told no yet. And I was like, man, that door's not closed. This voice came to me in the middle of service, said, Don't be discouraged.

SPEAKER_04

I shared that with my wife that evening, afternoon, because I was chewing on it all day. I'm like, what does that mean? She's like, I don't know. All right. Monday I get a phone call. We have chosen another candidate, and it came down between you and him, and or this other person, and um we uh we hope that you we wish you all the best. Dang, that was the spirit telling me not to be discouraged because the very next day Scott's gonna be discouraged because I really wanted that. I really want it. Yeah, but it was comforting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Did it take me a little while to go over get over that? Yeah, because that's my human side, but yeah, but it was the spirit telling me don't be discouraged.

SPEAKER_00

One time I had this, uh, I'd I'd purchased my first little uh little condo, a little tiny apartment, and uh sure enough, there was this downturn in the market. And I'm like, oh man, right? I need to get out. So I put the thing up for sale. It was in a very nice area. It just was a very, very tiny little little thing. So it was on, and I had a good realtor friend of mine, all this, nothing. It was on for a month, Scott. Nothing.

SPEAKER_07

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I'm a nobody even came to see it. Right? So I'm sitting in church, and this is my Sarah like moment.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, you laughed at God?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Here's what happened. I'm on the front row of the church, the pastor's up there preaching. I don't know what he's preaching about. All of a sudden, boom, I hear the I hear this voice. It just and it was like the Lord said to me, I'm gonna sell your your condo this week. I mean, just as clear as a bell. I'm gonna sell your condo this week. And I I literally chuckle a little bit out loud. It's almost like laughing inappropriately, right? I don't know what he was talking about. I don't know. It's like it's like, oh God.

SPEAKER_07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So here I am, a staff member laughing on the front row.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But anyway, so Monday goes by, nothing, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, right? There's nothing, no call, whatever. Boom. Friday afternoon, my realtor calls, said, Hey, you know, there are these this couple that wants to come by and see it. Walked through the door, saw it, made the offer, boom, sold.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. That's how it works, man. Yep. And he needed you to know that.

SPEAKER_00

He did.

SPEAKER_04

Because you're probably gonna get discouraged like I was. That's correct.

SPEAKER_00

So I was already discouraged.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I hope.

SPEAKER_00

So, but you know, here's the thing is that you said it earlier, Scott. The Spirit is speaking all the time. He lives in us, we have the mind of Christ. Yeah, right. I literally operate by the default that if this idea, this thought comes to me, it doesn't have to have a booming voice or an audible thing, it's just a thought. But it comes to me and it's a kind of divine direction, you might say, right? It's a godly path. It's a and uh but it can be simple. It's like you you could be you need to call Scott. Right? I've learned to act on those things.

SPEAKER_03

I have too. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04

I have no idea why I'm supposed to be doing this, but I'll call and Crazy thing is, sometimes when I call or send a text, I get a I really needed that.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_03

That came at the right moment. Yep. And I'm like, do what? That came what?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

Then I know that wasn't my desire.

SPEAKER_04

Correct. It came from him.

SPEAKER_00

Came from him.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah. Um, man, this is a great night. This is going to be one of the longer ones that we've had, but it's really good. And I hope you listen to the whole thing and you're still here listening and you haven't hit that stop button. Um, but uh we just um if you don't know who Christ is, there isn't a magical prayer, there's not anything you know, ritual you need to do. You just ask for forgiveness of sins, and you believe in Jesus. And what we talked about today about being in him, you get all the all that good stuff now, you get that peace, the grace that comes from Christ, and knowing him and trusting him and having faith in him and believing in him. It's it's amazing. And I wouldn't be here with Woody, I wouldn't be here with a lot of these uh men or women that have been on the podcast if it wasn't, and I wouldn't even do be doing a podcast, to be honest with you, if Christ hadn't at the right moment that I needed him. And he accepted me who I was and who I what I was doing, and he didn't radically want me to change instantly. I always say it's an inward, outward change. He doesn't change you on the outward, inward, and as I grow spiritually and mature in him, it's more of an inward, outward.

SPEAKER_03

And um, he accepts you as you are in that moment and who you are.

SPEAKER_04

Whatever that looks like, to me, I was I was this wild, terrible person. He accepted me just like that. So I just wanted I want someone to hear that tonight. I feel like that that's for somebody for to hear, is all you have to do is say, look, Lord, I want you to be the Lord of my life. Forgive me of my past and move me into the family. That's that's real, it's no magical prayer. And it comes from the heart. I'm saying it, and my hairs are standing standing up on my arms. I'm just saying, it that's all you need to do, and that's all you need to say. And and then go find and search people that have this heart for Jesus and start just hanging out with them because I I needed people to show me how to do this thing. And Woody happened to be one of those people at the church at the time that I attended, I chose to attend. He was the pastor at that time. I got to hear him and the truth every Sunday when he taught. So you have that opportunity. I hope you take advantage of that. And um, we love you.

SPEAKER_03

Like, subscribe, and share. Pursuing the heart. God pursued me.

SPEAKER_04

Now I pursue him, and now we get to do this close that we always do. Woody, do you know the close? K Y E O J. Keep your eyes on Jesus, K-Y-E-O-J. That's my other acronym I know. There's only two Grace, God's riches at Christ's expense. The one that I really like is K Y E O J, because in my own knuckleheadness, I need to be reminded to keep my eyes on him.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

SPEAKER_04

All right. So keep your eyes on Jesus, and I hope you come back next week.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

SPEAKER_04

We love you guys.

SPEAKER_00

Love you guys. See ya.