Pursuing the Heart

Ephesians 1:15-23 & Woody's Ministry

• Scott Blewett

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Scott Blewett & Woody Cumbie have an open discussion on Ephesians. Then Woody discusses the Trinity Palms Ministries. WOW...I hope you listen and enjoy! KYEOJ!!!

SPEAKER_01

Well, welcome back. This is uh Pursuing the Heart. God pursued me. Now I pursue him. And uh we had a great discussion last week in Ephesians 1. So much of a good discussion that we didn't even get to the ministry that Woody is a part of. So I asked my good friend Woody to come back to close chapter one and talk about more of his ministry that he has started. And uh hey, welcome back, Woody.

SPEAKER_02

Hey man, good to be back. I um I thank you so much for inviting me, Scott. It's this awesome experience. And you know, you made the point that uh this is not typically a a podcast that has a pastor on it, right? So the fact that it's back to back, back to back, back to back. I'm I'm honored.

SPEAKER_01

All right, no problem. Did you uh have you been watching any of the World Cup games?

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Or who are you cheering for?

SPEAKER_02

The USA.

SPEAKER_01

USA, okay. All right, all right. Yeah, they're two and oh yeah. Oh, they play. What's weird is tomorrow night's game is at 10 o'clock.

SPEAKER_02

But also, because of the change of rules, something I don't understand enough about it, but it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because it doesn't matter, yeah, because they've already wrapped up. Um, so basically soccer works this way, Woody. So you have four four in a group. Um, they will each play each one in the group once, and um a win counts three points, a tie counts once. So if you win, whatever the goal differential is, you get that goal differential because it counts. So like the US won four to was it four to one the first game? Yes. So that would be three goal differential. So last game they scored how many goals? Was it two? Two. Two, right? And it was zero. Right. So that's five.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So then the team they beat the first time, they used they they had a negative minus three in goal differential.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I got it.

SPEAKER_01

And then the other two teams that played each other the first week, I believe they tied.

SPEAKER_02

They did.

SPEAKER_01

So they didn't get goal differential, so they're both at zero, but they only got one point. So then the team last week that was closest to the US, they won, but they only got three points, so that would make them four. But then the US played them this week, or play the or they already played them. So, worst case scenario, they would tie, and then US would be okay on goal differential, they've already won the group.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I know this. I know that uh playing at 10 p.m. Oh, yeah. Eastern time is not ideal. Um, and if you add on top of that, the fact that the game doesn't matter really, right? Aside from the enjoyment of watching the game, like um the United States isn't gonna play some of their better players.

SPEAKER_01

No, but they're gonna they still have good players on the bench.

SPEAKER_02

No, for sure. I just think that that the the viewership number that has been really high is gonna be less.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah. So this is the way it works out. Okay. So the U.S. has six points, Australia has three, and Paraguay has three. And Turkey has zero. So Paraguay and Australia are playing each other. So if Paraguay wins, they're already in the hole minus two. So then for them to go into second place, they would need to beat Australia, I think, by three. Yeah. They'd have to put them so if they win, they would jump into second place.

SPEAKER_02

So here's a question for you. Yeah. First of all, going to back to pro soccer, European soccer.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Do you keep up with it at all? Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, all right. I'll try to explain it as best I can.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no. I'm just having uh it's an easy question. How often do the teams play?

SPEAKER_01

So the teams will play every weekend, and if you're in a tournament, you'll play once a week in the middle of the week. So, like if you qualify for Champions League, Europa League, or Conference League, those are the major tournaments that all countries participate over in Europe. They usually will send, let's just take the Premier League. A lot of people watch that. So this year they had five teams qualify for the Champions League. They had one, two teams that qualify for uh Europa, and then they had one team that qualify for the Conference League. So those teams will be playing in the middle of the week once the tournament starts. The only and then they play on the weekend, but here's the exception. There are breaks in their season to play international. So if it's an international weekend, if the players don't play for their international team, they would be off that weekend.

SPEAKER_02

The reason I'm asking the question is that up until now, in this group stage, it seems like to me we've played about more or less once a week. But if I understand this the schedule correctly, when we get to this next round, the knockout round, we play about every four days.

SPEAKER_01

That is correct. Yes, it will go it will go quicker.

SPEAKER_02

So so I guess what I was getting at is are the players used to playing every four days?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, they are. Okay. The the the players that play on the bigger teams, they do. All right.

SPEAKER_02

And let me ask you this question. Um, what about what what about the uh the hydration break?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's a way that they put commercials in.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And that's not for a soccer enthusiast or European football person that watches that, it irritates them because they're used to a game going and not having a um a hydration break, they play the whole thing. So some teams have been complaining because they have momentum, and then here comes a hydration break and they lose the momentum.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Or people are complaining because, say, today's game, England versus um they played uh Ghana. Ghana. So they had hydration break even though the temperature outside was like 50.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's and then the team the teams that are playing in domes, they were having hydration breaks, and the domes are AC'd.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So here here's the crazy thing is that if you have a team that is better conditioned and or you're deeper, it's a disadvantage to stop the game. Right? Where this other team gets a break. But it's the same thing that happens in US football, right? We watch it. We can have it, you can have a team and they've got the momentum, and then uh, you know, Billy Joe sprains his ankle, supposedly.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And so they come running out on the field to check out Billy Joe, and of course, the network uses that as a chance to go away.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they'll have a they'll have a commercial break.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So now you're at three or four minutes before you ever come back. Right. The other team that was had their, you know, they were on their heels. Now they've had a chance to go over, talk about what's happening. This is what they're running. Here's how you should, you know, it's it's frustrating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um so European uh football player or football followers, they do not like these hydration breaks.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And the crazy thing is they never had them in the 90s and the 2000s. It was something that was instituted a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02

But anyway, we're slowly but surely breaking the audience into the fact that we're morphing into a soccer podcast, right?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I don't I think people have already checked out. We're nine minutes in and we haven't started talking about Jesus at all. So people will probably already so we're gonna wrap this uh soccer talk up and we're gonna pray.

SPEAKER_02

So all right, amen.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, I'm gonna ask you to pray this week. I prayed last week. Why don't you be glad to pray? Why don't you lay a good prayer down?

SPEAKER_02

All right, Lord, we bless you. We thank you, Father, for today, the joy of the our salvation in Christ. We thank you for the beauty of the day, life, uh our physical life, our spiritual life in Christ. Lord, we thank you that today the indwelling spirit of God gives us the opportunity to have divinely guided insight into your revealed word. And Lord, that's what we're looking for. Lord, we're looking for the Spirit of God who inspired the Word of God to give us exactly what we're about to read about in this text, and that is an enlightenment into the revelation of God. So, Lord, I just pray for Scott. I pray, Father, for myself. I pray, Father, for those who listen. They're gonna be like Bereans, they're gonna study the text for themselves. And Lord, that you would just open it up and make it jump off the page and into our spirit. In Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_01

So last week, uh Woody and I started this uh Ephesians podcast. And um, when we started this, we, you know, of course, we started in chapter one. We discovered who Paul is the author of Ephesians. Um, what's most what is amazing about Ephesians kind of is very similar to Colossians. It opens up and it builds, it lays a foundation in Christ and Jesus and what he's done and the things that we have through him, and it establishes that. And then there were some words that we pointed out that if you're a highlighter person and Woody is, um, words that um you should highlight and follow in the text so you can understand who the who Paul is addressing, and that is us, he, and um in him, um, and his. Those are some really good words because you and then he sneaks in 13 last week, you and you could is it singular, singular or plural? Because it could be both, and then you make a determination who he's addressing there. We kind of talked about that last week, and Woody and I process this, and he's talking to the believers in the first, if I'm wrong, would he step in? He's talking to the believers in the first section of Ephesians, then he transitions into one of the verses down here, talks specifically to the Jews in the audience, and then he addresses the Gentiles in the audience, and then he wraps it up with the Gentiles, and that's where we ended in 14. Did I miss anything, or do you want to add something?

SPEAKER_02

No, that's it. Uh yeah, I mean, the only other highlight I would guess is that we address those spooky words about spooky words, yes. About chosen and predestined. Oh, yeah. And uh we decided that this uh choice and this predestination is not about choosing and predestinating individuals to be saved or not saved. It's about what's gonna happen to all the people who are in Christ. All the people who are believers, those people, God has already determined a destiny for those people. And that is to be holy and blameless in his sight, to be redeemed, to have the seal of the Holy Spirit and everything that he mentions here in this text.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So um, I heard a pretty good illustration actually about this. Let's go. All right. So uh and that just kind of illustrates the difference between a Calvinist view and a not Calvinist view.

SPEAKER_01

Well, those are those words again. Go right around.

SPEAKER_02

So the Calvinist view, uh let's well, first of all, let me back up. So here uh you have um you have an airline, and an airline has determined that they're gonna have a flight that goes from Indianapolis to Dallas.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah. The airline has decided this ahead of time. Right, they are that they're this plane is gonna go from Indianapolis to Dallas.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Now, according to one viewpoint, the airline not only determines the plane is going to Dallas, but goes out and chooses exactly who is going to be on the airplane.

SPEAKER_01

That's kind of weird, but go right ahead, I'm listening.

SPEAKER_02

Whereas the viewpoint you and I are taking is that the airline has predestined the flight. Not who's gonna be on the airplane.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so there's a destiny that the Lord has for those who are on the airplane. And in this case, the flight is called in him. In him in Christ.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Everybody who gets in Christ by believing the gospel goes to the destination that God has for them to be holy, blameless, redeemed, filled with the Holy Spirit, all the things that are listed in this text.

SPEAKER_01

That's exact. Um that's exactly right. I like that analogy, and I really I like that. So we read through 14 last week, and in this um podcast, we do verse by verse. Uh, when we do this, I get uh we read it, and then we kind of you can pick different things up when you're doing verse by verse a study. Um, and uh so we'll start in 15. Says uh for this reason, I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exist among you and your love for all the saints. So for this reason, well, what reason would that be? So this is where Scott says, maybe you should go back and read the two previous verses to try to understand what that reason is. Well, here it says this in him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession to the praise of his glory. So then you transition in the fifteen, it says, For this reason, I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you while making mention of you in my prayers. Woody what do you think that that is saying? What what reason for this reason?

SPEAKER_02

I I think he's referring to everything that he's talked about about salvation up until this point. Okay, but specifically just what you pointed out. When he made the transition to when he said, You also you you guys, you guys heard the gospel, you believed it. Yes, you became part of the family, you were sealed of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01

You were sealed in the Holy Spirit, yes.

SPEAKER_02

When I heard about this, Paul was saying that fired me up, and I have I've I've begun to pray for you guys uh and give thanks for you guys and so yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So he's actually just saying, hey, you are the previous. You are I'm encouraged, I'm I'm encouraged by you because you are believers, you are um, he uses the word saints, says it says among it says, which exists among you and your love for all the saints. So he's saying that your love for your fellow brothers in Christ, sisters in Christ, I'm aware of it.

SPEAKER_02

Here's a question for you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02

So this might be a big looping uh curve. Um it actually goes back though to something that I mentioned last week. But here's my question if Paul was part of that church in Ephesus for three years. Doesn't it seem distant to say, hey, I I heard you guys had trusted in Christ. I I heard about it.

SPEAKER_01

I think you witnessed it.

SPEAKER_02

So I wonder why he would say I heard about it.

SPEAKER_01

Probably heard more people came to know Christ after he had left.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because his people go back through those churches after he leaves them. I think they're and they get reports as far as what's going on.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. I think there are two possibilities, and I think that's one of them because he's writing this letter ten years later.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And he's in prison.

SPEAKER_02

It's like a pastor who hasn't been at a church or even in town for 10 years, and he's writing back to that church. And it's like, hey, I hear that, you know, you guys are your faith in Christ, your love for the brothers. I'm hearing about it. I'm pumped up about it.

SPEAKER_01

What say Barnabas visited him in prison and just said, hey, guess where I stopped off? Exactly. I stopped off at the church of Ephesus on the way here.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Man, the church is going crazy. They love Jesus, they're growing, and they just love the fellow believers, and the way that the love they show to the fellow believers is amazing.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's option one. I think option two is I mentioned last week that some manuscripts don't have the word in verse one. They don't have the word at Ephesus.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02

It just says two church, right, in that area. People who are faithful in Christ, and that it it was a circular letter. But even if it was going first to Ephesus, it was going to be passed around to other churches that he had not been to. So maybe this is an inclusive statement that includes churches that he had not previously been associated with.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

But I think to the uh point that he's making about what he had heard is that they have um great commandment. Right. They've come into the great commandment faith. What is the great commandment? That we're to love the Lord our God with all our minds, soul, and spirit. And love our neighbor as ourselves. Right. Right. So he says right here, you guys have faith in God and you have love for others.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And it's and this is the sign, this is the initial sign that you're actually a believer. And I tell you, if you have a person who says they have, and John writes a whole book about this. First John, the entire book is about if you say you have faith and you don't love your brother, the brothers, you don't you don't love fellow believers, right? I question your faith.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah, because we're called to love our brothers and sisters in Christ.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, if you got this letter too, it would be very encouraging to hear Paul say, Do not cease giving thanks for you while making mention of you in my prayers. If I got a letter from Paul, and at that time he was just a like a church planner and the mouthpiece to the Gentiles. If I got a letter, that's very encouraging to me. Those these two verses um would be highly encouraging if I read that. Um, and I read that in a letter form that was sent to me by Paul, especially after I after I've known Paul through a couple of years or whatever. Um, that would be highly encouraging. Um, in verse 17, it says that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. So spirit of wisdom and revelation. Is that I want to ask you a question, Woody, when when I when I read this, is that discernment?

SPEAKER_02

A spirit of wisdom and a spirit of re revelation. Um, I think wisdom has to do with I I think when we receive the revelation of God, the word of God, wisdom is about how to actually apply it in our lives and how to actually live it out. Wisdom has to do with the practical application of what the Spirit of God has revealed to us.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes wisdom isn't a good, I mean, sometimes I don't want to know that wisdom to get that to get the wisdom, you know, because usually going through a tough season, you gain wisdom.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

And um, in my life, that's the way it usually works. And then um, but wisdom, uh, he's praying that they they receive wisdom and revelation, but the key thing is in the knowledge of him, which is Christ. So it's basically hey, I I want you to get wisdom and I want you to get knowledge, but I really want you to get in wisdom and knowledge in Christ because that's longer lasting and it's more rewarding for you.

SPEAKER_02

Keep keep in mind also that Paul is a and is an old testament scholar. Well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I think I know where you're going. Yeah. Here's an echo all the way back to Isaiah 11, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That speaks about the spirit, the seven spirits of God.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_02

Verse 2 the spirit of the Lord will rest on him, speaking on Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02

The spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. And so here he picks up on basically three of these terms.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Wisdom, yeah, right, and revelation and knowledge.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so, and keep in mind also, these are mentioned again in the book of Revelation.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So, um, yeah, so I believe that that the Spirit of God picked up on uh Paul's scholarship, Paul's awareness of the Old Testament text, and he's applying it here in his prayer, which goes to the idea of praying scripture.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

There's an idea, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Just pray what the spirit of pray the scripture itself about somebody.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And we're gonna get to that in just a moment.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. So uh verse 18 says, I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of his calling, what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. So I'll repeat that. This is a good verse. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of his calling, and what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints. I think that goes back into the wisdom and revelation and the knowledge of him, it's a continual thing, but now he's actually saying what he's praying that they that the eyes of their hearts would be enlightened, and that they would actually that spirit of wisdom and revelation. And then to me, when I hear the what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance, isn't that grace? Grace is his riches at Christ's expense.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I wonder if, well, first of all, the idea of the eyes of your heart. So now we're beginning to differentiate between wisdom and knowledge being an academic thing. Yes, head knowledge, right? This is now talking about personal relational knowledge. This is an intimacy, it's a relationship, right? It's a relationship. Uh so that I'm beginning to have insight, revelation into the person of Christ, right, through my actual interaction with him. Not a book about him, right? But my interaction with him.

SPEAKER_01

And that's where we start to get to know him.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So it's a spiritual aha, really, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

It's like somewhere at the heart level, it's like, oh, wow, yes, I see it, I get it. And we've all had the experience of reading a passage of scripture that we've read a hundred times, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, wow. Right? You have this whole new revelation of the spirit that dawns on your heart about this passage. So yeah, I can get fired up about it.

SPEAKER_01

It's good stuff, and then it says, What is the hope?

SPEAKER_02

But but hold on a second. The the this idea of the inheritance do you think that's God's inheritance? It's his inheritance.

SPEAKER_01

His inheritance, yes.

SPEAKER_02

In the saints. So is it that is he saying, is he praying that that as believers we would understand how precious we are to God that that through what Jesus did and through the family that's being formed in Christ, that that becomes the inheritance of this entire initiative.

SPEAKER_01

So in verse 11, it talks about inheritance. Yes. If you go back, it says, also we have obtained an inheritance. Correct. Having been predestined according to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will. Correct. So it is his inheritance that he gives us. Right? Is that what that's saying? I we've obtained.

SPEAKER_02

It's either the same or it's two different inheritance. Looking at it from two different perspectives. Okay. The first time, an inheritance which we receive, the second time, an inheritance which God himself is receiving.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we are, we could be his inheritance.

SPEAKER_02

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he and yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So I also picked up on the fact that um remember in in uh 1 Corinthians when he talks about the love chapter, and then it ends and it says that these three remained faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And Paul comes back to those terms often. And so here we have, in the span of three verses, right? Faith, love, and hope.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

So again, he's returning to these kind of um bright line virtues of the Christian life. So we have faith, we have hope, and we have love.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And then we have what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints? Um, and then it proceeds in 19. And what is the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe? These are in accordance with the working of the strength of his might, which he brought about in Christ, when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places. So going back, it says, surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe. Is he talking about the power that raised Jesus from the dead, like he mentions in Romans 8?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and he's saying that that same power is at work in believers.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah, and then he said, because he even points out um it says, uh, the power, these are in accordance to the working of the strength of his might, which he brought about in Christ with when he raised him from the dead and then seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places. A fun little uh word study that you, if anybody wants to do, is right hand. All through the Bible, right hand is a symbolism of power. And you can look at every you all little fun scriptures that talks about the right hand, and it's amazing what it will blow your mind, especially Psalms. David uses so much analogies about God's right hand, and um, he's saying that Jesus is sitting in the heavenly places at his right hand, God's right hand, and he's seated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, thank you very much. Well, I would say two things about this passage. One is that Paul, he's like super eloquent, right? He's a very educated guy, and he has the Spirit of God speaking to him and through him. And yet, when he gets to this idea of trying to describe the power of God that was involved in raising Jesus from the dead, that he begins to, it's like almost beyond description how much what this power is. And so he just throws in every word for power he can. There's like three or four different Greek words for power that are used in in this text, right? So he talks about the greatness back in 19, the greatness of his power, then the mighty working of his strength, then the power, verse 20, the power in Christ raising him from the dead. I mean, he just he just keeps ladling back to the word ladle, ladling on the uh these these words to try to explain how much power, like we had this rocket launch the other day, the largest rocket that's ever gone up from the uh planet Earth, and just that gigantic energy and I mean seismic energy of that of that rocket, it's kind of like this. It's like it's just like, man, the to even try to describe it is is is hard to do.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

But God exercised this power, and here's the thing why do you think it took so much power to raise Jesus from the dead?

SPEAKER_01

Well, you had to overcome death.

SPEAKER_02

He overcame death. Now, weren't there others that overcame death?

SPEAKER_01

Lazarus? Lazarus is dead, but it was Jesus that that called him out. The same power that raised him, it was the same power that woke up Lazarus.

SPEAKER_02

I'm wondering, now keep in mind that everybody else that came back to life eventually died, right? So, first of all, for sure, Jesus came back to life and is still alive.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Number two, he was raised up to the right hand of God. But number three, don't you think that there was cosmic interference, demonic interference with the whole in the spiritual realm? In the spiritual realm. Don't you think this was the biggest? If you could have seen the swirl that was around that tomb.

SPEAKER_01

Well, don't you think that they already thought they won? Oh, for sure. Because he died.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Until he was given the keys.

SPEAKER_02

For sure.

SPEAKER_01

And set the captives free. Um, that's a whole podcast on its own. But um, so going into the power, and now he's seating, seated at his right hand in the heavenly places, and if you continue, it says, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. All right. So, rule and authority, when you're seated on a throne, you have this idea of you have rule and authority. So he is seated at the right hand of the Father on the throne, right, as God is seated, and then he has power and dominion. The power and dominion would be over the spiritual and over the physical. Because the one thing that in the Old Testament that they were trying to figure out is who this coming Messiah is. It was never revealed, the name was never revealed. In some non-canonical books, you get a picture of spirits going towards God asking them who the Messiah is. What's give me the name, give me the name. But now he has now they know who he is because he's sitted at the right hand of the Father. He is the Son of God, it is his crying, uh crowning moment, and now he has been given rule and authority and power and dominion over everything, and that would be of that time, and it would be in the past, that time, and in the future time. Christ's dominion and his rule is over everything. Is that how you read that, Woody? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

I have another question though.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, go right ahead.

SPEAKER_02

So in in the uh uh in Paul's letter to the Philippians, okay, all right, he embeds this hymn or this creed about Jesus. Okay, right, and and talks about the same thing about him being uh raised and exalted to the right hand of God, yeah, and that he was given the name above every name, right? That every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Right? And every tongue confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord. Right. Now in that confession, it says he was given the name above every name. Here it says he has a name that's above every name that is named. I'm curious about that last tag that is named. Every name that is named. And I've got I've got an idea about it.

SPEAKER_01

So my mind goes to this.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Where you get this picture in Revelation of the Book of Life. And everyone is in the book of life. But you don't want to be blotted out of the book of life. Maybe that's the name it says uh name that is named. So maybe that's where my mind goes.

SPEAKER_02

It's like I'm looking at this contrast that in Philippians it says he's got a name that's above every name. Stop.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Here it says he has a name that's above every name that is named. Now here's my idea. In that I believe that don't freak out yet. I have with me the Christian Standard Bible, but I believe that the New International Version actually has a good translation of this.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, you want to read it?

SPEAKER_02

It says that he's been given a name above every name that is invoked. Now, if you think about it, in the occult world or in the spiritual world of that day, people called upon and invoked the names of various gods.

SPEAKER_03

Right?

SPEAKER_02

You go all the way back to Moses' confrontation with Pharaoh's magicians, and they say, in the name of Ra, right? Or in the name of whoever, right?

SPEAKER_01

Whatever the uh god of that snake would have been, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Correct, right? Same thing. All the way up into Roman times. They have the little in the name of whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I'm gonna invoke this name in order to get power or some outcome. That was part and parcel of that world, that superstitious world that I've got a name that that somehow unlocks power. All right. Yeah. Now we were taught to pray in scripture in the name of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

In the name of Jesus, yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02

So we're we're invoking his name, right, when we pray. What about in the book of Acts when we've got this Yahu guy, this occult guy who was kind of a magician of his own, right? And he observes the apostles, and they were casting out demons in the name of Jesus. This guy's never heard the name of Jesus before.

SPEAKER_01

That is correct.

SPEAKER_02

Right? And all of a sudden he's like, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

I want that power.

SPEAKER_02

I've got this whole list of names that I've been using.

SPEAKER_01

And it hasn't been working.

SPEAKER_02

And now here's a name that works.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna start using this name. That's an interesting later, of course, he gets rebuked. That's a different story. The whole thing.

SPEAKER_01

This is an interesting take. I really like it.

SPEAKER_02

But but it's interesting that he's that Jesus has the name that is above any other name that you could possibly invoke, call upon, trust in. You think about any false religion, any false faith. I've put my faith in, whatever you want to put, fill in the blank. If it's not Jesus. You have adopted an inferior product.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

All right. That's my deal.

SPEAKER_01

That's fine. That's good. I like it. Uh so going in verse 22, it says, and he put all things in subjection under his feet and gave him as head of over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. So he put he put everything under him. You get this analogy, everything's under his feet. He's over everything. Um, and that's because God gave him that.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

God gave him that authority.

SPEAKER_03

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

And then it says he gave him uh head, well, head over the church. Because what? He's a groom, we're the bride, and we're gonna see later in Ephesians groom, bride, husband, wife, relationship. And um, but in this it says head over the church, which is his body, his people, right? The fullness of him who fills all in all. We are going to complete him. Did I miss something?

SPEAKER_02

No, I like it. I but I just think it's incredibly profound that he's been uh that everything was put under his feet and he has appointed him as head uh over everything for the church.

SPEAKER_01

For the church.

SPEAKER_02

For the church, on behalf of the church. And then it says he's the head of the church and this and that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So it's like it's not just in general that he's the Lord of creation and everything is under him. There's a specific relational aspect to it that it's for the benefit of the church.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And I hope people stayed and listened to this because there's some really good stuff. It finishes off Jesus, it finishes a whole chapter of a foundation that we can build upon Jesus and who he is and what he's done for us, what we have access to because of him. And um it is awesome. This whole chapter is amazing. We could go back through and talk about things that we didn't talk about the first time, and that's the most amazing thing because that's how the spirit works. The spirit is alive and is in the word. And when you read the word, the spirit speaks to you. So I'm gonna transition over to Woody's um, he wanted to come back and talk about his ministry. So last week I said he was the executive director of Trinity Palms Ministries. So I'm gonna ask Woody to take some time and I might have some questions because there's probably you're gonna be talking about your ministry, so I might ask questions here. But talk a little bit about what your ministry is, what it does, and who is it for.

SPEAKER_02

Great. Thanks so much for letting me do it. Um, first of all, you can check it out at Trinitypalms.org, Trinitypalms.org, and check out that website, and you can get a lot more of the story. Um, but uh at the heart of our ministry is a um a team, an incredible team of people, well-equipped prayer ministers. And um, these are all over the nation. Uh and not not even uh only our nation. Um two are here in Indianapolis, one is in Chicago, one is in Phoenix, one is in Atlanta, one is in uh in Canada. And our ministry, um Scott, is for people who have experienced trauma in their life. They have um uh they call us when we when they have they know they're being bogged down by some unreasonable anxiety or sadness or relational distance or something they can't explain that they just need healing. And we help people find healing through the interactive presence of Jesus Christ. We actually lead people in a prayer process called emmanual prayer, where people actually discern the presence of the Lord, the wonderful counselor, the healer who guides us. We're not counselors, this is not a counseling ministry, this is a prayer ministry, and the Lord Jesus Christ leads people to um healing of hurtful memories and traumas. The other thing is what we touched on here today, and that is there are people who are suffering from demonic harassment. They are there are things that are happening in their heart and spirit and life or family they can't explain. And they come to us and we can help with um freedom, helping people find freedom from demonic harassment. Our pre our prayer team does all of this virtually, it's all online, and uh we op uh the the calls are free. You can set up a free 15-minute consultation to find out more about it, talk through your situation, find out if this is right for you. If it is, um we operate on a strictly donation basis, and that's that's kind of at the heartbeat of what we do. Now, there's some other aspects to it too. There's a truth side of it. All my sermons from Life Point Church are also available through this website. Some podcasts I do are available through the website, whatever. But at the interactive core of it is this prayer ministry.

SPEAKER_01

So how long have you had this ministry now?

SPEAKER_02

This ministry is launched publicly in March.

SPEAKER_01

So fairly new.

SPEAKER_02

Fairly new. And I want to emphasize, though, that the team of people I have are not new at what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Um but they're just they are they have served in ministry or some form of church and they all but one also have gone through the Deeper Walk International School of Ministry, which is an intense like nine-month thing that has equipped them to do the kind of ministry we're doing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So they're not making it up. You know, they're they've got experience, they've had at bats. Um, so really, really talented team. So blessed to have those people.

SPEAKER_01

So the website is www.trinitypalms.org.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. Check it out.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and this is a faith-based uh ministry. Correct. Um and you guys use scripture, prayer.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. And it's all about finding, it's all about finding um healing in the presence of Jesus Himself.

SPEAKER_01

By giving would it be giving people hope through Christ?

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Almost like what we talked about tonight.

SPEAKER_02

Almost, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Um, have you had uh people since March come to you and you can't? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

I'll tell you a story. Just tell you this one, just a brief, just a tidbit, um, a snippet. Um, there's a guy, another state, nobody here would know him. Um uh business guy, married for several decades, a successful business guy. Um, he and his wife, both Christians. Uh his wife goes to like a spa appointment. And when if she comes home from this spa appointment, she's a completely different person. Her personality is different. She begins to speak with another voice. Okay, a demonic voice. And this man, the husband, is freaked out. What's happened to my wife? Right? And uh so he calls the the at that at a point like that, you're like, who's gonna not think I'm nuts if I call him on the phone and say what I just said?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

He calls the one guy that he thinks would understand. It just so happens that one guy is one of the six prayer ministers at Trinity Palms Ministries.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And so we've been able to begin marshaling resources to minister not only to the husband, but obviously to the wife as well. And so that's kind of an example of somebody that that was kind of an extreme moment, extreme uh circumstance. But um, yeah, we've got some good folks that can help people out.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And then um, so we can pray, people can pray for your ministry to touch people's lives.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And we can participate in that.

SPEAKER_02

That's correct. That's a good way to do it.

SPEAKER_01

And um, so we can actually help Woody and his people by praying for them because they're on the front line of the spiritual battle.

SPEAKER_02

I tell you what else. If you go to Trinitypalms.org, and especially if you go to the freedom, free there are several pages, but one's called Freedom. You look at that page, you'll see our prayer team, and just be aware of what it is that we have to offer in the Lord. And because, you know what? The Lord can direct somebody into the path of somebody who's listening to this today, and all of a sudden, that person is equipped with Trinitypalms.org. They're not sure what to do with it, but they can refer to somebody, that person to Trinity Palms. That person can make a uh um an appointment for free and talk to one of our folks.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Well, uh, Woody, I um appreciate you coming back on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Loved it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate you talking about the stories you took spoke about last week and then the this uh the new ministry that you are uh venturing in. And uh we pray for success, and we also pray that the spirit would overcome because we know the the Holy Spirit is greater than any spirit, amen. And um, God is greater than any God, and Jesus is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. And um, so uh thank you for listening to the podcast, Pursuing the Heart. Like, subscribe, and share. Also, too. Um, I have been dropping the ball lately, Woody. I forgot to tell people we're on all podcast platforms. If there's a podcast platform that you uh like, uh Pursuing the Heart is probably on that um podcast network. Uh, we're on Apple Music, Spotify, uh, just to name a couple, and then there are other ones that I don't even know about, but they we're on those. And uh the most uh most people listen to these on YouTube. So uh we appreciate everyone. And um, we're gonna close with K Y E O J. Keep your eyes on Jesus, and uh hope you come back next week. Uh, we'll have another guest, and um probably he's gonna have an awesome story. And I hope you come back, and we're gonna get into Ephesians 2. And uh thank you for everyone, and uh, we love you.