Bible Mastery - Ephesians 4:28-29

Thanks for listening to the Bible Mastery Podcast, brought to you by Teleios. In this episode, William and Jeanette Stewart will cover Ephesians 4:28-29.

The Bible Mastery Podcast brings you verse-by-verse teaching that’s clear, grounded, and life-changing. We take the Bible at its word—interpreting it in a normal, literal way—so you can uncover its deep truths about salvation, spiritual well-being, and daily living. Our goal is simple: to help you understand Scripture and equip you with the tools to interpret it confidently, without getting lost in noise or speculation.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello, and welcome to the Bible Mastery Podcast, sponsored by Teleos and hosted by co-founders Bill and Jeanette Stewart. Here, we give you verse-by-verse teaching from the truth of Scripture that's clear, grounded, and life-changing. Our goal is to help you understand the Bible and equip you with tools to interpret it yourself confidently and correctly. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Hello, everybody. Thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yes, boy, how exciting. We have a couple of great verses today. So helpful in our Christian life and the church life. Before we start, just a reminder that we consider all the Bible from Genesis to the end of Revelation, God's word. And uh it's perfect in everything without error in everything that it addresses. It's the and this is controversial, I think it's a story of salvation through Jesus Christ as its main theme. And the knowledge that God gives man is progressive throughout the whole of the Bible. Importantly, for this podcast, we're going verse by verse, we're sort of taking what I would call a biblical theological viewpoint. Otherwise, we're not using a historical theological overlay or a denominational overlay and how to interpret, we want the Bible to speak for itself. So you know, and we know what the Bible says. So when we come to questions from how to uh assess denominations or historical theologies or what people are telling us is truth, we know what the Bible says and we can accurately decide for ourselves. We want you to be your own Bible master. Jen, any comment on that? I think that's just vital.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

It is so important, and thanks for that review. You know that um we have to take the Bible literally, but we also have to put it into the context of at the time it was written, what did the people who read it understand? What were what were their cultural backgrounds? Uh, because that also makes a big difference to how we understand things.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

And we'll actually touch on that today as well.

unknown 2:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

All right. So, Jeanette, I think we're on verse. Well, I think in context, we're in a series of positive commands in Ephesians 4. We're in verse 28 today. Uh so much of this concentrates on speech. But that verse 28, Jeanette, tell us about verse 28.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

So let me read the verse first. It says, let him practical. Oh, yes, of course. Let him that stole steal no more, but rather let him labor working with his hands, the thing which is good that he may have to give to him that needeth. Well, first thing I'd like to point out, and we mentioned this last time, is God is always good in scripture when he tells us not to do something to provide a replacement activity. So here he's saying, don't do this, but instead do this. And so he's basically saying, don't steal anymore. So this leads us to believe that the people to whom he was writing among them were people that before they became believers were thieves. And we might think, oh my goodness, thieves. But um, you know, thiever can be in small ways too. You know, I always like to use the example that um when you're on the clock at work or making photocopies and you think, well, I'll just make a few for myself, or I'll clock in, but then I'll go do something else for a while. That's also theft. Uh, so you know, it doesn't mean that they were robbing banks necessarily, though maybe they were. But basically saying that's old old pre-regeneration person behavior, don't do it. So, what should you do?

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yeah, I'm sorry, I keep trying to interrupt you. I oh yeah, okay. That's rude, but you know, I did it anyway. Do you think that it even involves, and maybe this is a stretch, stealing people's time. Yeah, you know, where Christians want attention, they want to complain, they want to gossip, um, and they take people's time to hear them out uh for their own selfish purposes. And maybe this gets into verse, uh, the next verse. But I mean, is that I don't think that's a major part of what's in view, but you stretch it to the office place, isn't it? Is it stretched even to people's time?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

I think it could apply there. I think primarily in this passage, it doesn't, but certainly that when we get to application, that might be a worthy place. I think now the exciting thing is he's basically saying, instead of theft, whatever area it applies to, here's what you should do instead. And he says, um, let him labor. And this is interesting because the word work um that's commonly used in scripture is not this one, although this word is common, it's uh copayo. And basically it means to work hard to the point of being tired or fatigued. So it doesn't just kind of mean um that's like you every day, sweetie, and you'll work for you. You know, I'm exhausted, right? So work hard to the point of fatigue, and he says with your hands. So I don't think that uh I mean the word hand is um the regular word for your hands, basically.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Um actually it is heroes, excuse me, like chiropractor is the word for hand.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

I thought you said it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

No, no, it is the regular word for hands. So I don't think this necessarily means that you have to do manual labor, but he's saying engage in hard work to the point of getting tired instead of stealing. But then what is lovely about this, he says do it in things that are good. Um, but he gives a reason, and I love this. The reason is that the person who's working hard has the ability to give, and this word literally means to share um with someone who needs. So, in other words, one of the reasons we work according to scripture in other places is to provide support for ourselves that we can feed ourselves and our families. But the other motivation to work hard is that we have funding, we have money, we have things that we can share with those in need. How lovely is that? That's such a great motivation. And um, you know, the difference between stealing from people uh and leaving them in need to working hard to provide for people in need is such a great contrast. So, Bill, you always have things to say. I'm sure you have more than what you've said already. Please add.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Probably too much things to say. So interesting. I now you made the point that these were things, this stealing that they were doing before they were Christian. But this is not one of Paul's list of don't be like an unbeliever. This seems to be something now that these people had a problem of stealing.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

And um, so I think that's and sorry if I misunderstood you. So yeah, they should not do that now.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

That's what I was trying to say. This behavior is an old, unregenerated persons, that's what characterized them. So it's out of place in regenerated people, it should not characterize believers. And and sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

So just added to that a thought, you know, we talked about culture, that it's remarkable if you read the epistles, there's often an intimation that these people who have become believers have come from a pretty rough background. Read the uh qualities of an elder, 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Here, there's some things that people are doing, perhaps still as Christian, with which they're struggling, that in a genteel historical Christian culture would be raised not to do generally. And I think it tells us a lot about the Roman Empire that these people came from pagan, non-Christian beliefs. So the amount of change, the amount of work that the Holy Spirit had to do to change these people was a lot. Now, obviously, it's still struggling uh at some level, whether stealing inside or outside the church. Now, Jeanette, you're always really you emphasize this a lot. Now, I think I learned this from you, and it's a good thing that um the positive thing about work. So, how what's your view on that?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

I I mean, God from the very beginning of creation um ordained work. You know, after he created Adam, he gave him some tasks. He said, Go name the animals, um, identify things. Uh, so there were things that God gave him to do. Work is dignified and it's pleasing to God. And here the fact that we have an even higher motivation that after we have provided for ourselves, we can share with others is just in my mind, just beautiful. You know, I get up every day and I do work hard in my business and I enjoy very much what I do, but part of my vote motivation is to have an access actually to share with teleos, because uh, you know, we um provide funds for the teleos ministry. So that's part of my vote motivation to get up early every day and go work hard. And and I think it should really motivate all of us that God um has designed man to work, basically.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yes, and you're a good example to me for that. I yeah, I think this should not be overemphasized. And I think sometimes in the church we sort of downplay where you're working too hard, you know. Uh you know, you slide by perhaps with mediocrity because you're a servant of the Lord. Servants of the Lord work hard. Yeah, this is obvious, I think, in the next next chapter in Ephesians. Well, it's Ephesians uh six. Uh it's in Colossians three and uh Second Thessalonians three. Work is good, we work hard, we provide for ourselves. 1 Thessalonians 2, 1 and 2. And um, you know, that this is the scripture is not a communist doctrine document. Christ acknowledged the fact of work and profit and never criticize it. That it was okay. And certainly Paul worked hard to support himself. We support ourselves unless we just physically or perhaps mentally can't do it. And um and thus we support the church. And then back to your point about the attitude we do this to serve. We know from Colossians 3, we're serving God in doing this, and Ephesians 5, and um we are uh you know serving our fellow people in the church, or and actually we're serving the community as well and our bosses with whom forever we work. It's an attitude of service, and that really helps our own attitude not to be grieved by our work or bitter or consider it a necessary burden, but a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah, that is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

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SPEAKER_03 12:48

Good. Other comments on this? No, please take us to verse 29. Okay, so we work with attitude towards other people's needs. And this I think is perhaps even more important. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good for the use of edifying, that they may that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Wow, that's a big verse. This is not discussed a lot within the church that I ever hear. Uh, the word here for corrupt in the Greek is sapros, bad, corrupt, worthless. It's basically saying, and this is revolutionary. When I open my mouth, or any Christian opens their mouth, they're doing it not for themselves. Not to complain, not to gossip, not to talk about themselves, not to talk endlessly. We open our mouths to serve the other person. What's their need? And uh that's that's just a vital important point in the body of Christ. How do we do that? Because that's not easy. I think we do that first by how we think. We know scripture, we respectively learn scripture. That the spirit uses that to cre uh Ephesians 6 17 to transform our minds, renew our minds, uh Romans 12 1 to think like like God as close as we can, and then when we consider other people, we frame them in the perspective of scripture, what God has done in their lives, how their lives are consistent, and we think, well, gee, how are we thankful for them in very specific ways? And how could we encourage them or even compliment them by what God has done in their lives or any other compliment that we can encourage them? And then what's their need specific to this verse? Well, how do you know a person's need? You ask questions, okay? If you if you know they're working hard, how's your work going? You know, is it there any stresses? Uh, you know, what's positive, what's negative, your family, what they care about outside of work, the Christian life, what they're studying in scripture. Ask questions and then just shut up. Don't turn the conversation back on yourself. Listen to them. Ask them follow-up questions. Take a genuine interest, has Dale Carnegie, uh the famous uh uh communication guide in the last century has spoken. So take a genuine interest, and as they speak, you'll learn their needs, and then you can speak to those needs. Jeanette, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 15:54

So well said, and and you know, as the verse goes on to say it says, for the use of edifying. So edifying means to build up. So, you know, how do you build up people? Well, in order to build them up, as you said, you have to know their needs. Somebody once told me, and it's always stuck with me, that God gave us two eyes, two ears, one mouth. So we have four ways of taking in information and one way of sending it out. And that's when you look in the mirror, maybe that's a visual reminder that we need to ask, listen, assess, and then speak, because that's how we know how to build people up in in Christ, in God, um, and in in all areas of their life. You know, as you said, it's a very common habit to turn the conversation back to yourself. You know, someone shares, oh, they're struggling with something, and the other person goes, oh yeah, I had that same problem. You know, what have they done? They've just flipped it back to themselves. So, and this is not edifying to the other person. So this is such a good verse.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, and then you throw in the uh at gratitude in specific ways, the the some compliments, recognizing who they are, and and that's another way to build people up. Um, you know, this this whole pop Christian psychology that took over Christianity 50 years ago, um, you know, talking about yourself and your own problems, and that was seen as holy and righteous, that's not biblical. And we only seek attention for ourselves when our burden is too hard to bear. I really too hard to bear. You'll look at Galatians uh 6, 1 and 2. And that happens, but for the vast majority of us, and particularly if we're in scripture and thinking in a healthy way, our job is to serve and the things that we do, and to serve and the things that we speak. Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

What what do you think it means when it says to minister grace to the people that you're speaking to?

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Well, that's a good question. So grace is unmerited favor. You know, it's grace that God gives to us. I think it's what we give to other people, that unmerited favor, uh forgiveness, which uh it can also have this uh implication. And um that um we uh provide you know people misspeak, they they don't do things correctly, and sometimes you can be offended and taking instead of taking offense, you know, we give grace back. Uh people speak uh coarsely, uh you know, turn it into something gracious. So how do you look at it?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yes, I agree. I I also think um the word grace conveys sometimes the aspect of joy. So to bring joy to somebody, um you know, that usually comes from being able to address, interact with what they're telling you. And again, not to turn it back to yourself, but so important.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah, I think I maybe I misspoke. I don't think grace always means doesn't mean forgiveness, but sort of it can mean joy or thankfulness and unmerited favor. How about what's rotten out of your mouth, that word separates? What practically what would that mean on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yeah, and the other word that translate that comes from that in English is putrid, which that conveys for me something that's just awful, you know. Um, and as a nurse, I usually think of terrible body fluids. It's putrid.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Well, I understand, but we should probably end those discussions now. They don't want to hear our medical stories.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Absolutely. So I think anything that doesn't edify and build up and bring joy to somebody, give grace to them, that is what is bad. So it I don't think it necessarily means ooh, icky, awful stuff. It's just things that are not according to God's purpose of building up other people. I I don't uh how do you look at it, Bill?

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Well, and I I agree with that, but where's the line about what we can speak about to other people and what's bad? Otherwise, can you talk about the football game over the weekend? Um, you know, uh food, I mean, are neutral secular subjects okay, politics, etc.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Oh, sure. I I think that's a really good point. This doesn't mean that we have to just speak about spiritual things all the time. We have normal conversations. That's that's life, right? You're sharing your experiences.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

So so having said that, where does it cross the line? I think, you know, say a politics, there there's a lot of sin in politics. So it's one thing to say, well, one such and such politician had an affair, they're under investigation. But to go into the details and take up the conversation of exactly what that affair entailed, and uh talking about their personality turns towards the negative. And I think don't think that's really necessary. You're going into details of sin in such a way that might cause the other person the lust or you know, inhabit their mind uh with those things, that's not really meeting their needs. And oftentimes we talk about that for our own entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yes, you raise a really good point there, you know, getting into salacious details that are unnecessary. You know, you can just state the fact, people don't need to know all the details, and uh it's really unhealthy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

And and so then how about joking? Do we are we gonna be serious Christians and Puritans here? Uh can we joke and and what's off limits? I'm going to be serious all the time. Finally. You can just get rid of that sense of humor until so much more scriptural.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, I think you know, laughter is good medicine, we see in Proverbs. I think joking is fine, but I think joking has to again not take advantage of other people. You don't joke at someone else's expense, making fun of them. You know, um good humor and situational humor can be really great and um an emotional relief to people, actually, but but it's not at the expense of somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah, probably joking based in sin uh as well, uh, you know, particularly sexual jokes, probably generally not encouraging. I I think what you said in terms of making somebody else the butt of a joke to make people laugh. And you know, people can sometimes be offended by that. And then the retort generally is by the jokester, oh, I was just joking. Oh, yeah, it's not that's baloney. You know, that person is clearly using that person uh to ingrandize himself with their joke and to sort of make fun of the other person, even if it's only halfway on. That's not a way to encourage people, uh, no doubt about it. You don't make fun of their name and you don't make fun of them, basically. All right, other comments? No, these are just really good practical verses, aren't they? Yeah, wonderful. Yeah, just a key to life. Okay, well, we've talked about here today in verse 28-29. Work for the other person's need, speak to the other person's need. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Thanks for joining us today. Bye. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Bible Mastery Podcast. Join us next week for another exciting episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

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