US Trends, UK Future? What’s Next for Reformer Pilates With Seran Glanfield

In this episode, we sit down with Seran Glanfield to explore the evolution of the boutique fitness industry and what the future looks like for Pilates studios navigating a fast-changing market.

We discuss the rapid growth of the Pilates sector, why demand continues to rise, and what studio owners need to do to stand out as competition increases. From pricing strategy and retention to brand positioning, technology and community-building, this conversation is packed with valuable insight for anyone building or growing a Pilates business.

Seran shares thoughtful perspectives on the differences between boutique studios and big box gyms, the importance of creating a premium and personalised client experience, and why studios need to be far more strategic in how they market, communicate and retain members.

We also talk about the role of technology in modern Pilates, including how screens, wearables and sensor-based reformers are starting to shape the client experience, while also discussing why human connection and strong community remain at the heart of long-term studio success.

In this episode, we cover:
– The growth of the Pilates industry and what it means for studio owners
– Why differentiation matters more than ever in a crowded market
– Boutique studios vs big box gyms
– How to think about pricing in a more strategic way
– The importance of retention, brand messaging and community
– Technology, data and the future of the Pilates experience
– Why the UK market still presents major opportunity for studio owners

Whether you are a studio owner, instructor, entrepreneur or simply interested in where the Pilates industry is heading, this is a conversation full of practical insight and honest perspective.

Subscribe for more conversations with the people shaping the future of Reformer Pilates.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to the ReformaPilates.com podcast, where today I'm joined by Saran Glanfield. Saran is the founder and lead strategist at Spring Three, a business and marketing consultancy built specifically for boutique fitness studios. For over a decade, she's helped Pilates, bar and yoga studio owners attract more clients, improve retention, and build sustainable businesses that fuel both profit and fulfillment, all without the overwhelm. But Saran isn't just a strategist, she's also a Pilates teacher, certified business consultant, and the voice behind the Pilates Business Podcast, where she shares real-world insights from helping hundreds of studios grow and thrive. In today's episode, we're diving into a topic that's on every studio owner's mind: the big trends and patterns shaping Reforma Pilates and booting fitness in the US, and which of those are starting to ripple toward the UK. Whether you're thinking about expanding your reach, refining your marketing, or simply staying ahead of the curve, this conversation will give you clarity, perspective, and actionable insights for what's coming next. So let's get into it. And uh Saran, welcome to the ReformPolarties.com podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited with this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Thank you very much. Well, uh, if that sounds good, let's get into um the first question. So um Reforma and Pilates Studios have exploded in the US over the past few years. Uh, is growth still looking strong, or do you think it could be starting to reach a saturation point?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

That's such a great question. It's a question I think that we're all asking ourselves over here as well, for sure. Um, we've seen obviously tremendous growth in the Pilates industry all around the world. Everywhere we're seeing growth, um, year over year, positive increases and trends upwards when it comes to uh uptake uh amongst new consumers, but just the quantity of consumers who are now looking for and taking regular Pilates classes is higher than it's ever been, right? So this is the dream. This is what Joseph Pilates wanted for the world when he set out to establish his method all those years ago. Um, we saw Pilates Studio uh volumes, booking volumes, um, increase by almost a hundred percent in 2023. So the industry side, the booking numbers almost doubled that year. Um and since then, you know, we've seen numbers and still not far off that. So huge, huge growth um across the board. And, you know, we we see a lot of investment in the industry coming in still. Um, and we're still seeing growth. There's still uh studios opening and opening very, very strongly. Um, but we are also seeing um that there is a lot of concern about just how much more uh capacity there is in the industry. Uh I'm not seeing any issues yet from the data, and I look at everybody's data that I work with, all the studio owners that I work with, and most of them are in the Pilates world. Um, I'm not seeing any issues yet, but I work only with people, I should I should work with people who are implementing the best strategies there is because they are working in my program, right? So they're doing all of the things they have built the infrastructure for their marketing, for their, you know, their operational uh growth and so on. And so they probably are sort of the the best of the best in terms of what we're seeing from a data perspective, and they're not having a problem. But I would imagine, and then I'm seeing the people who are sort of inquiring about coming into my program are it are seeing perhaps a bit of having a bit of a concern about how you know they used to be the only Pilates studio in town, and now they're in a you know, a street or or a row of you know six or seven, right? And it's a it's concerning, it's worrying. Um so I I think that there is still, as always, there is still a possibility of of growth out there for those who are uh growing it as a business and thinking strategically and thinking about the what's next and ensuring that they are ahead of the game. Um and so you know, I I think that we're gonna can, you know, we're seeing an ongoing increase in interest when it comes to wellness and well-being and movement, movement practices. And, you know, Pilates, you know, as someone who's been doing Pilates for, you know, 20 years. Um I see people who do Pilates for a very long time. That's what a lot of the clientele um is. You know, if you start doing Pilates when you're young, you're gonna continue on with it because you you enjoy the benefits it gives you. So it's not, it's a little different to other modalities that we've seen kind of come and go because it has that sort of longevity element to it that a lot of other modalities don't. So I'm still incredibly bullish, the market for Pilates. I still think there's a tremendous amount of capacity that is still untapped. Um, but I do think that if you're not sophisticated and smart about uh your business and what you're doing in your business, that you might find that you struggle a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

And so, in terms of the sector, growth very strong, continued for the overall sector, but perhaps for those that maybe have become a bit complacent within it or just haven't evolved and really developed as a as a as a studio, it could be tough times ahead.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, I mean I think that you know that those that often come into this um industry come into it with this incredible desire to make an impact and to because they've often felt the incredible benefits of Pilates and Reforma Pilates and equipment Pilates, and um without perhaps a little bit of differentiation, without developing that brand um with intention, you you might find that you blend in a little bit more. And I think that's one of the biggest risks, frankly, at this moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Thank you. So uh to that point around differences, then what are you noticing between Pilates growth in boutique studios settings versus some of the kind of the big box gyms or hybrid environments in the US? And I suppose the second question to that is, you know, do you think some of that will will come to the to the UK?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, so great question. We uh, you know, up until about a year ago, Pilates and especially equipment-based Pilates, like the Reformer, was extremely boutique and small classes, uh, and when I say small, I say, you know, up to about 10 or 12 per class would was sort of the maximum uh with reformer classes. Um, some had always done a little more, but that's kind of where I tend to see the average class size go. Now, what we're seeing is um an expansion in the capacity of classes. So we're seeing classes with, you know, 12, 15, 20 reformers. And we're seeing this happen also within the gym, the big box gym settings as well. And this is different to what we have ever seen before. What we're seeing also is that a lot of the big box gyms uh are in um are putting the access to those classes as part of their ongoing monthly membership, which has been also a shift. In the past, it's been an add-on, it's been an extra, it's been an extra cost. And now they're using it and putting it within their existing membership, which obviously is you know a concern because typically with Pilates, we see a premium price point because of that more premium experience, because of the um depth and requirement of experience with your teachers and how to teach on those those pieces of equipment, um, as well as those those smaller class sizes giving more individualized uh experience. And so it it shifts a lot. And and so I, you know, I think that um we're see there really there is a difference there without a doubt, in terms of the experience you're having in a boutique studio versus a gym. And I think the key there, as we've just mentioned, is that there is a difference and that there's a differentiation between the two. And I think it's very easy to get concern because of this new sort of way of accessing Pilates, reformer, especially reformer Pilates. Um, but it's it's we should we should be very clear about how different that experience actually is.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So continue on the theme of I suppose changes and and and differences. Um in terms of some of the demographic shifts that we're seeing, and there's always great video content of rugby players on you know, reforma Pilates um beds, etc. But um in ch in terms of you know some of the newer audiences who traditionally you know might not have chosen uh Reforma Pilates or Pilates, um what are you seeing there in terms of how studios are adapting to new audiences that perhaps are starting to discover reformer Pilates and and wanting to wanting to try it out?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Pilates is is I mean, it's always for every type of body, right? It and you know, Joseph Pilates himself was a man. He built this as a strength, um, mobility, flexibility program from the very beginning. So there are elements of it that are incredibly challenging for anybody, no matter how strong you are, uh, which is why it's kind of always fun to see those rugby players or the you know, American football players, right? Um, on doing trying to do some of the moves that uh we're also also trying to do. Um, and so you know, it was designed always for to be this, this sort of accessible for everybody because the benefits of it are always, you know, so powerful for everyone, no matter no matter who you are and what you're doing. So we see that it's powerful for those who are, you know, young and and even we're seeing increasing numbers of even teen classes coming into the market now and all the way through to obviously people who have uses it as a tool for rehabilitation post-surgery, hip surgery, knee surgery, and so on in the 60s and 70s. You know, some of the clients that come and are still so active in their 60s and 70s and 80s, plus, I mean, even 90s, I know there are plenty of teachers out there teaching people throughout their whole life. So what we're seeing now, I think, is just because of the quantity of studios and options available, we're seeing a little bit of a an uptake across more of a broader demographic, which is really, really exciting to see. Um, and you know, I think from a, you know, we we've known, I mean, I've been in this industry for, you know, 15 years, you know, athletes have always done Pilates. They haven't spoken about it maybe as much as some of the other trainings they do, but they've always done Pilates. And because, and and those who take it seriously and include it as part of their entire training regimen will say that this is the most important part of their whole thing because it does challenge that mobility, the flexibility, the stability, the balance, the coordination part that you can't often get from other kind of types of training. So it's it's always been there. Now we're just seeing it a whole lot more. And I think that if, you know, it always comes down to as a studio, you know, who is your audience? And I think it's really, really important that you're clear on who that is because what we often see and what I hear from many folks is this desire to want to work with a lot of different people. Um, but we do know that when it comes to growing and building a business, that you want to be a bit specific about who you're targeting and who you're talking to with the way that you do things in your studio. And so if your target is that, you know, male uh rubby player, right? Then it's it's gonna be about targeting that audience and making sure that the experience and the language and the way that you're branding your business, your studio business is targeted towards meeting that need.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Personal observation, it definitely feels like there's a real opportunity and still a lot of capacity in that. I think you're right, uh professional cricketers, tennis players, uh whoever have done this for 10, 20 years. But the the non-professionals, so those that just you know do their own sport, perhaps a uh still a big opportunity there for that to be driving their longevity in their primary sport, let's say. So it feels like that's still a a big opportunity, certainly from from from what I see in the UK. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, I mean, you know, you can go really niche with Pilates, right? So we've often used it's often been used as a pre and postpartum um workout method, right? Uh pretty heavily. But we also know that it's exceptionally good for runners. We also know that it's exceptionally good as a as a cross-training tool for anybody who does strength training as well. So we know that there it we know how powerful it can be. And it's about, you know, as a teacher, as a studio owner, as a as a business leader, wanting to tap into that very specific niche. And so we're seeing, I've I mean, we've I've seen programs, you know, when I work with my studio owners, we talk about these different ways to tap into these different markets, and a lot of it comes from as a teacher wanting to support that particular type of client with that particular need. And so often it just comes from, you know, what is your interest and where who do you want to really help with Pilates and reforma and equipment Pilates? Um, and so that's really where it's often driven from.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah. Switching it up a little bit now, again, I suppose changes in the uh in the industry, uh starting to see how um, you know, uh integration of technology, right? So how reformer fusion classes or boutique experiences are are looking to kind of integrate technology. Um are you seeing that? And are you observing success with integrating um screens, for example, into um into certain classes?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So interesting. This is this is such a a shift, right? That we are now able to do this in in classes and in a and and and at home. Um, you know, I think there's a huge opportunity here, and I've seen a uh quite a few studios integrate screens somehow into their into their classes, into their equipment classes. Um and I think it's also a huge opportunity for the at-home market too. And that's um we've already seen that roll out quite successfully. Um with the class-based screens, I think we're still in the early days of how powerful they can be. I think a lot of it, I think it really depends on the structure of your business and what it is that you, the experience that you want to give to your clients. Um, screens can be very helpful for some clients. They're very visual. It can be helpful for them to see the exercise in in a few different ways as well as hearing it. So when we're trying to teach a class, I don't know if you ever taught a class or a Pilates class, but people he people retain, like access the information you're sharing about how to teach in a lot of different ways, right? Some people are visual, they need to see it first, some people need to hear it, some people need to be shown. So there's a lot of different ways. And you always always want to make sure that your your whoever is taking your class is is getting the most out of each move and that they're doing it properly. They're doing it effectively, that it's not just a throwaway exercise. And so for some people, those screens are going to be really powerful, they're gonna be great tools for teachers, and that's really exciting, right? We've seen it, you know, uh we've seen them be uh used in a few different ways, and a few different brands of reformer products will include it. Um, but one of the most exciting things that I'm seeing now and that I'm kind of curious about, and I think this is is is is sort of uh interesting for anybody who is teaching and and loves to teach any folks who are perhaps in um sort of on a more one-on-one type of a scenario or rehabilitation, is that we're seeing reformers built now with sensors in them that gives you immediate feedback as to whether you are putting more or less pressure on one side of the body or the other. So if you're pushing out from the reformer, right, with your feet on the footbar, if you're pushing out more through the, say, the right foot versus the left foot, you can get that feedback immediately. Um, and that is really helpful and powerful information for the teacher because ultimately when we're when we're teaching a class, yes, it's about getting a good workout, but a good workout means that you're teaching the body in a balanced state, that you are helping folks to overcome certain weaknesses that they already have. A lot of times we are completely subconsciously favoring one side of the body or another for all sorts of reasons that we are not aware of at all. And so when you have that feedback from the teacher, from which the teacher gets from the reformer, it just makes that workout so much more effective. And this is something that I'm actually really excited about, almost more excited than the screens part, um, because I think it's a gives you as a teacher just more tools to be able to help your clients more with um getting the best workout and getting the best movement practice um out of you know, whatever sessions it is that you're giving. So that's the part that I'm super excited about. I think the wearables and the text is here to stay. I think we all love data. We all love to know, right, how we slept last night, how many hours did we sleep, how many steps have we taken, and all of the things. I don't see that going away at all. And it's about how we can then use that, you know, in our business as a teacher to be able to deliver a more effective experience.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Absolutely. Eight hours three last night. I got um that's my nice one, nice one. But um it's really interesting to go from that subjective to very objective measurement of people doing uh you know Pilates. That's um yeah, I I I take your point there. It's a pretty significant shift and a real value of technology of something that's that's really useful versus just something that you could do. So um yeah, that's uh that's significant. And uh kind of building on that point you mentioned and we hear it frequently in all the surveys and conversations that we have, importance of the instructor is is critical. Um and that contributes very much to this sense that you know boutique for fitness isn't just about exercise, it's culture, it's community, it's identity. Um again, I always want to get the kind of what you see in the US perspective because because we we don't get to see that, but again, how how are US studios kind of leveraging that? Uh, that sense of culture, community, and identity? How how do you see them kind of leveraging that effectively?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Well, I think every studio has its community, and I think for m the most of the studio owners that I speak to, you know, one of the uh sort of unintended consequences of opening a boutique fitness studio is this incredible community that it also creates. Um, and these friendships that are born out of this shared experience of movement, which can be so incredibly powerful, and I think ultimately is one of the you know drivers of how powerful the boutique experience can be and and for retention of your clients overall. And so I think that building that sense of community and developing that culture in the studio is just absolutely critical. For those studios that don't do this, you see it. You see them turning into studios that have people coming in and walking straight back out again, or they'll come in and they'll do the discounted intro and then they won't stay. And, you know, when there isn't a sense of belonging, when there isn't a sense of familiarity, when there isn't an intentional creation of um shared uh values um and and sharing of those values, then you know, it feels like an empty experience. And I think when people come to Boutique Fitness, they're looking for more than an empty experience, they're looking for more than that. They can go to a big box gym, they can do a YouTube workout for free at home. You know, there's a lot of other options if you're not looking for other people's energy around you, right? Um, but most people when they come to a boutique class and they're and it's a boutique class in the sense that it's a smaller space and a smaller community and and you you're seeing familiar faces, it's a different experience. And I most people are looking for that, I think in this day and age especially. So it's not something that anyone is ignoring. If you're savvy about growth, you're very focused on this for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

So that's a that's a key ingredient. And I suppose to to dig into one of the topics there you mentioned, which is around retention. And I suppose this is getting into what you do uh a lot of, right? Um, so from your work with hundreds of studios, you know, what are the most effective ways uh Larti Studios are attracting and retaining clients right now?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're looking about getting new clients in and retaining clients, you know, there's a huge toolbox available to you. And I think that one of the things that we often get wrong, or what a lot of folks get wrong, is that they assume that it's just about social media and it's not at all. Social media is not the tool that you're gonna use to get and keep clients at all. There are a lot of other tools that you're gonna use in in concert with social media, but it we should not be relying on that. But it does seem for some reason just to take up a huge amount of space in our thinking about marketing and getting clients in the door. Um, and I think you know, when it comes to growth and client um and then lead generation and conversion and retention, which is sort of the the flow that we see, uh, we want, I should say, you know, we want to make sure that we're tapping into all the different channels and platforms and opportunities for growth and visibility and awareness at the top of the funnel. Um and we want to make sure that we have our processes in place for um pulling people into the into the studio and for ensuring that they are actively engaging with the classes, that they are getting what they want out of those classes, and then that they are guided forward into that next cell beyond that sort of first few visits. And so typically it's not just about getting new clients. There's a strategy there, right? There should be a strategy there. If there's not a strategy there, then you are risking your business because, again, the industry is growing at a rate which doesn't really allow for not having strategic approaches in the business, for not having processes that are designed for lead generation and retention. So we want to make sure that we have got those structures and the strategies in place throughout that customer journey that is designed to meet our clients where they are, that is guiding them forward. And there's a lot of very specific things that you can do, ways that your touch points you're creating and ways you're connecting with your clients to make sure that once they find you, that they're excited about coming in, that once they come in, they're having a fantastic experience, that they could then come back for that next class or session, they come back for that next class or session, and then so on, and they move into that sort of more of a longer-term commitment membership or package. And what I'm what we often find, especially amongst newer studios, is that we don't have that structure and strategy in place yet. And that's a huge opportunity if you don't, because that tells me that there is um, you know, there are things that we can do to really sort of create us a stronger, uh more robust business as a whole. Um, and and if those things are in place, then oftentimes there are some gaps that need to be perhaps refined or upgraded or improved that can that can help to really make sure that we aren't losing clients when we don't need to, or that we are attracting the right people in the door in the first place. And so those tools look like a lot of things that sort of need to interlink together. And I always say it's kind of a bit of a puzzle, right? And you know, if those puzzle pieces are just all scattered around the floor, it's really hard. But like we want to kind of put the pieces together, they should fit together really, really well. And you know, we need to have all the pieces fitting together well, not just a couple. Um, and so if you've got some gaps in there, you know, you don't have a full and complete picture, you're gonna be losing clients along the way.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

A component within that, uh, Saran, as well, is presumably like pricing and and and value perception. So you make a really good point there in terms of the sequences and and you know opportunities to delight. Uh, but I'd love to get your view in terms of um kind of pricing and and value perception, which is you know, obviously huge for long-term sustainability. What any trends in pricing or packaging that that you're noticing?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

There's nothing's shifted enormously in the industry that I've seen over here in the US. You know, we went, you know, just to give you kind of a bit of a perspective that I look at, because obviously I've been doing this a long time. So in the beginning days of the boutique fitness boom, which started out, you know, around 20, 20, 2010, I would say, um, the biggest difference in why boutique fitness, I think one of the reasons why boutique fitness became so popular was because it sort of turned the tradition on its head of only being able to access fitness through a you know year-long contract at a big box gym, right? And it said, okay, we don't, we're not gonna do that anymore. It said, we're gonna do packages of 10 classes or five classes or drop-in classes. So we're not, we're not asking you for a big commitment. And in initially, you know, in those days back then, that's how most boutique studios began. And then what we saw was that they decided that actually a lot of folks were looking for a membership because they actually quite enjoyed that sort of um accountability of having a membership of some sort at a boutique fitness. And so folks added the membership element to it. And the membership element looked a little different to the big box gym memberships, right? Um, initially, there there was a lot of unlimited type membership offerings. Um, but we do not see that as much in the party space, mostly because the classes are limited, and that creates a bit of an issue for you as a studio owner when you cannot deliver on a membership because all of your classes are full, which is what we've seen. So we see a lot of membership options with limited numbers. So that's like an eight times a month membership, 12 times a month membership, and so on. Um, and less so we're seeing the unlimited memberships in most small boutique studios. Yes, we see it sometimes in the franchises, um, but less so in a in a sort of owner-operated boutique studio. So that still all exists. Um and, you know, I think that when it comes to pricing, I think it's really, really important that I make this point, which is that there is not a pricing model that is better than another. There is a pricing structure that is going to be best for the way that you deliver what you do in your studio based on the capacity, based on your goals, based on your growth, based on your clients and consumer behavior. And so it's really important that you build out a pricing model that meets all of those needs and that works for you and that is profitable. So there's not one way, or there's not one way that's now better than another way, but there is probably a right way for every studio owner.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

You touched on uh a moment ago, we were talking about the various different tools, the toolbox that's available to drive memberships and retention and perhaps the kind of over focus on social media. Um, but I did want to just get your perspective on that for a moment in terms of you know, storytelling, um, and it feels like that is still a big uh focus of attention in in fitness marketing. Um, are there any brands that you see, you know, messaging differently to stand out? And again, anything that you know we could learn in the UK, because it feels like US is is pretty competent at this.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah, no, I you know, I social media is important, it's a part of your toolkit, it has to be. Um, and I think that we have to continue to use it as in as as sophisticated of a way as possible, but without it becoming our full-time job, right? Which as a studio owner, that is often the challenge. Um so where this really comes from and the root of this is really comes down to your brand messaging. And I think that when most people um are thinking about social media, they're thinking about something they have to post, or they're trying often trying to follow some trend or use some sort of trending audio and trying to do something smart there. Um, and often we skip over sort of the core messaging that you need folks in your community because as a local business owner, you have a community of people around you that are waiting to hear from you, right? Are waiting to see you pop up on their feed. We want to make sure that when we're showing up for them, that they see content that resonates with them, right? And though, and that is often where the storytelling can be so incredibly powerful. So we have to be leaning into more so the most sophisticated way of reaching people with our core messaging and ensuring that what we're putting out, that the content that we're putting out there is is highly relevant for our target audience, for our the people that we most want to work with in our studio. Um, and so we were the the temptation might be to put together a fun reel or a TikTok or whatever that is is got that great fun audio and the beat drops and you change or whatever it is, right, that you're wanting to do that, but it doesn't always land with the clientele that you're looking to bring into your studio. Um, and so, you know, again, the way that I work with my studio owners is that we are strategic about our messaging. We're thoughtful about what that looks like and what it is that we want people to know about our business first of all. And then we're looking at all of the different tactics that we can use to share and showcase the core messaging for our business. And this, again, is how you differentiate yourself from every other studio on the street. Because if you're just copying what everyone else is doing online or what you're seeing on social media, um, you are just gonna blend in and you're gonna sound like everyone else. And I think that is again a real risk for your business and business growth. So, you know, we see a lot of um studio owners enjoying, seeing really enjoying great results from a lot of more personalized and personal um uh posts and content pieces. And again, that just comes back to this sort of desire of wanting to connect with people in your local community, right? Though you're not building an influencer brand that is global, you're actually building a community within your community of people who are coming into your studio. And so if you aren't showing your face, if you aren't showing who you are and what you're all about, then you know you again, you run the risk of being overlooked. Um and I think it's really important that as the business owner and as the founder of someone in a in a in a in a local business that people know who you are and people know what you're about and what you care about, because that's ultimately what's going to drive your brand and the and the and the experience that they're gonna get in your studio.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah, it very much builds on some of the themes you've you've touched on already in terms of differentiation and you know connection and community. It's uh and those are the things to bring out in uh in social media and and otherwise versus fitting with the latest trend and perhaps getting a bit of a uh a momentary dopamine hit. So um yeah, take that, take that uh on board. Thank you. Um you we touched on this before and I already uh kind of shared um I remember holding my whoop up to the screen a moment ago, but um when we were talking about you know wearable tech and personalized experiences and specifically like the uh new technology you mentioned that would be able to measure uh on on reformer base. Do you do you see that in yeah? I mean, I I I'll be honest, you're that you're the first person that's told me about that, so I'm uh that's new to me. Um how is it that kind of personalized experience showing up in Pilates? Um and you know, do you see that as something that will continue and influence people in terms of how they're gonna engage with with reformer classes?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Yeah, I mean, I think that um we're all you know, we're like we already mentioned we're all already measuring a lot of movement practices, right? And so I think that you know, when it comes to some of the existing wearable tech, it's gonna be, you know, and it's gonna show up in in that way a lot um and make people feel good about what they've done and that that they've come to a class, and that's that's great. Um I think that you know, beyond that, you know, I'm not sure how much more we can do with the wearable tech when it comes to Pilates. Um you know, I'll never forget when I was um teaching in New York a long time ago, it was when the Apple Watch first kind of was doing fitness stuff. Um, I had a client that came in and was incredibly frustrated because, you know, they were 30 minutes into their Reforma Pilates class and they had only burned however many calories it was, and it wasn't enough. And, you know, she was comparing it to her, you know, soul cycle class that she was doing, and it was way more, you know. And so I think that we're more educated now than we were then about how impactful Reforma Pilates can be from you know, even just a calorie burn perspective versus a spin class and how it's a different modality and it does different things for the body and both have benefits. So I think the consumer is is ultimately incredibly uh more informed um than ever before. And I think because of that, they're also more informed about, you know, we mentioned like how well they've slept and perhaps how well they're recovering and so on. And I think, you know, Pilates sits in a place in movement which sort of intersects both the um the strength component plus the recovery component. And so I think that it makes it again just all the more compelling for anyone who is, you know, is aware of their, you know, is wanting to improve their wellness and well-being and health. Um, and I think that people will continue to see the benefits of Pilates and what it does. And and, you know, the tech may or may not count it in in quite the same way as it might count the spin class. But you know, I think that for those consumers today versus you know five, ten years ago, you know, we're more informed about what our bodies need, right? And it necess isn't necessarily just more, more, more, more, more.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. Well, I don't know how comfortable you are with predictions, but I I'd love to get your view of what you think will be the biggest trend or or shift in reforma Pilates specifically over the next uh 12 to 24 months that maybe um you know UK studio owners should should prepare for. So um, yeah, any predictions over the next year or two?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

So interesting. I think the US and the UK markets are a little bit different. Um, you know, I think the US market is, we're still seeing a tremendous amount of um private equity money flow into the industry. I think that we're still seeing um a lot of um variety of brands in Pilates come into the market. Um, and I think that each of those brands are targeting a different variation of Pilates, right? And what it does. And I and I think that we're gonna continue to see that. And I think that's great because again, you know, I one of the keys to success is that you are differentiating yourself from others and that you are targeting a specific audience with what you do, right? So I think that US is a little bit more mature and of a market in that sense because you have had that um the growth and that that uh those larger names coming into the industry. Um, and so I think you know, we will I think I do think that this is the year where those studios who are not savvy and sophisticated with their efforts around business will struggle. I don't think it's happening yet, but I do, I do think that you know, towards the end of the year and the beginning of next year, we might find that that that starts to happen. Um so I am I'm looking for it and I'm and I'm you know, we are we are you know that's that's my that is my sort of concern. I'm hoping it's not gonna happen, but that is my concern. Um, I think in the UK, they're a little earlier, I think, in the life cycle in a lot of ways. So what I'm seeing in the UK is a lot of studios opening on the um that are owner operated. Um, you know, it is that really nice, you know, you know, five to ten reformer uh studios, which I think is a really nice sweet spot in a local community, in a town or a city where you can build that great strong uh community that the where there isn't there is an audience of people who really want to include wellness and movement in their lifestyle. And there isn't a tremendous amount of competition for doable options for this sort of large quantity of people, right? And I think that we're seeing a large proportion of the population being able to access Pilates in in a very nice way across different age groups, different demographics, and so on, which is fantastic. And so I just I still think I think there's a huge opportunity in the UK. Again, I think around the world, just because of the just how much um interest there is in this industry and the amount of money flowing into it, right? I think that the Pilates and Yoga Studios market um globally was valued at $175 billion or something like that, right? It's huge numbers. And we're seeing more people come into this market in in ways that we that are sort of unexpected as well. So I do think that we are gonna, you know, that the we are gonna see that the market expands in a lot of different ways. I think the consumer is gonna be more informed than they ever have been about not just how many hours they slept or how many hours of movement they've done each day, um, but they're just gonna be more informed about what they need for themselves. And so I think that the UK has a lot of opportunity for growth. And again, I think that the key is gonna be that you're building your business in a really smart, sophisticated, and sustainable way, and you're thinking about all of the different pieces of the puzzle, right, that goes into making your business really, really robust for the long term.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

You mentioned uh uh accessible or accessibility there, I as you were talking about the the US market. Um as it's more uh developed, advanced, it's uh you know in a cycle ahead of the the UK. Would you say that US studios are kind of making reforma more accessible and and and more inclusive?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Well how what how in what way?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

How do you how do you mean well I I think that uh today in the UK there's a perception of the classic Pink Pilates princess, let's say, which is I don't know if that's old, uh kind of old hat now, but that's generally the core group. Um and perhaps uh at both the kind of price points and the level of athleticism required to to go into a class, it can perhaps be intimidating. I I just wonder is is that the case in the US or or do you see opportunities for it to be more accessible and more inclusive?

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah, I mean I I'm fortunate that I get to work with studios that are all shapes and sizes, honestly. Um, and I work with folks who are, you know, rehabilitating, you know, our 70-year-olds post-knee injury and hip, hip, hip replacements, right? Um, I work with a lot of studios that have um, you know, the the uh full equipment and not just reformer. And I work with a lot of reformer-only studios as well. So I see all of it. So from my perspective, I may not be the best person to ask because I do see all of that. Um and you know, and I within that I see folks who are um making it more accessible to more people in their community in a lot of different ways, um, as well as opening up sort of you know specific um options for beginners or for more advanced or for different segments of their own sort of population. So, you know, I wouldn't say that there is sort of like this united effort to make it more accessible, right? Because, you know, it it it it that doesn't really exist. But I would say that on a sort of an individual level, which is how most of these, you know, independently operated studios operate, they are looking at their audience, are looking at the people who they come in, and they they are building this community and they want to serve as many of those people as possible. And so where it makes sense, I am seeing that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Thank you so much. This has been a um a great uh a great conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I've just got one last question. It's a bit more of a uh uh personal one, but I always ask it at the end of every uh uh every podcast, which is what has given you unbridled joy in the past week or so?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Okay, so I just started playing Mahjong, which is like this uh game with tiles. It's become incredibly popular here. Do you know it? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

I know I played it, I played it as a as a kid, believe it or not. I had an auntie that insisted on teaching me how to windy knitting or uh well, not windy knitting, what is it called? A windy, I can't remember all the hands, but it's an amazing game.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

It's very fun. So it's just taking off here massively. And um I played yesterday and I won twice, and I always made me very happy because actually that was the first time I had won in a long time. So that was fun, super fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

That's off, that's off. Great.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Well, I mean not Pilates related at all, but still.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

No, but good, very mindful. It's a good thing because you just you just get consumed by that. So it's a really uh really nice thing to do. Soran, thank you so much, it's been an absolute pleasure, and uh thank you again for uh for spending your time with us, and um, yeah, all the very best for uh yeah, your continued success with Spring 3, etc. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Thanks so much for having me.