Sight N' Vision : Helping Other People to Excel and Experience God

Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin of Hope Ministries share their call to ministry, their journeys with vision loss, and how faith, discipline, and accessible tools (like screen readers and online Bible resources) help them teach and encourage listeners—especially those who are blind or low vision—to keep living fully and confidently in God.

Guests

• Minister Elizabeth Norman — Hope Ministries; teacher and minister; shares vision loss journey and accessible Bible study tools
• Minister Greg Martin — Hope Ministries; former Marine; teacher and minister; shares sudden blindness journey and faith-based resilience

Hosts / Show

• Wash Ear Radio Hour (local voice of the blind, low vision, and print disabled)
• Produced as a Razor Edge production

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is a Razor Edge Production, Sight and Vision, Disability, and Senior Talk Radio Show, Heard on the Wash Ear Radio Hour. Well, we want to welcome back our guests, Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin from Hope Ministries on the Wash Ear Radio Hour, and they're going to be teaching today. But Greg and uh Minister Greg and Minister Elizabeth, I wanted our audience to get to know you a little better. They have gotten good feedback from the first um teaching that you did, but people said, so who are they? So uh we want to welcome you and let's just get to know you a little bit better, and we're gonna alternate um how you answer because people want to know both of you. Now, I read a definition that a disciple is one who chooses God, an apostle is one who is chosen by God. When did you feel the call of God on your life to become an apostle, one chosen by God to spread his message?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Who would you like to go first?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

I would like you to go first since you spoke up.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Oh, well, um, it was some years ago. I I uh kept hearing uh a scripture that's saying, um, you know, I've called you for a time like this, um, and I've anointed you to preach the gospel and so forth, but I just ignored it. And, you know, you have friends around you who say, Oh, well, when are you gonna be a preacher? I and I say when God comes down here and tell me face to face. Otherwise, I'm not doing this. I'm not going through it because he has to tell it's not anything you jump into and haphazardly, like, oh, no, no, no. You have to hear a call from God because it's God's word and God's people. So I would say, Wow, uh, in the 2000s, I think, yeah, in the early 2000s, but uh I didn't pay, I didn't go forth until around 20 um 14 or 200, 2013, or 14. Quickly, I uh I got a uh a friend of mine called me and she said, Liz, I just had a dream about you. She says, Funny, you always had a dream about us, but I had a dream about you, and she was said, if she said the dream was something about getting your minister's license, and you were called to marry people and all that. So when I knew that that was it right there. That was the only that was an icing on the cake for me. I'm the dreamer, I'm the one who dreams and tells my friends what I dreamed about them. But for her to call me to tell me that, and I still had that recording on my phone. That was around 2013, 14, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Wow, that I I I I was waiting for you to tell me when God came down, but He He works through people. We know that we've had that experience. Minister Greg, uh, when did you feel the call of God on your life to become an apostle, one chosen by God?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

When I got saved uh in the Marine Corps, and um I started going to church, and um my pastor at the time, Milton Sullivan, um they just took me under their wings. And um I started teaching right away. It just was something that God had put in my heart. The person that led me to the Lord, gonna be starting aisle in prison, he was a teacher. And um what was on him came on me through association and through him laying hands on me. So I realized that this is what God wanted me to do, and it was easy. I I don't struggle to do what God gives me to do because it's a gift, and that's when I knew, because my pastor recognized it, and he said, You're a teacher, and um then on I just started teaching, and God gives you things, being a teacher, that um other people that have different gifts don't get it the same way because you like to study, you like it's it's a compassion, it's a passion to study God's word and to understand it the way God wants you to understand it, and that's that that's what makes teaching so prevalent is you get the understanding from God, and then God gives you the voice to share it.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Um, many of our listeners um are blind or have visual impairment. You also are blind uh uh or visual impairment. I don't know what language you prefer. Um, what is your vision loss story, uh Minister Elizabeth?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

One day I went into my office and the the lights were dim. And so I called maintenance. I'm like, y'all need to come change these bulbs because the bulbs are dim in here. But it wasn't the it wasn't the light in the room. It was the light in my eyes that was going down. And so I had to uh uh you know go to the doctor and have him check my eyes and uh it was time for me to get my license renewed, and so he refused to um he didn't want to sign the paperwork for me to get my I'm like doc come on, doc, please. Come on, because that's one thing people lose everything, they don't want to give up driving. Yes, I understand. They don't want to give up driving, and so I'm like dog, he's like, well, I'm gonna go ahead and do it, but you know, this is this is it. And so started that process, and so um it was discovered that I had uh diabetic retinopathy. And so that was going through those problems and then discovering at the same time doing one of my surgeries that I had developed leukemia and didn't know that either. And so it was a very um, I want to say interesting situation of how it got started. It was very um challenging, but I must say, through it all, God has shown himself. Because he already knew it. That's the thing. It's a shock to us. Sometimes it's a shock to us, but he knows everything. And so he has been my help, my sustaining force throughout the whole process.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Did you know that you had diabetes before you were diagnosed? I did. And we have people who handle their diagnosis of diabetes in different ways. Some are very serious about it, some are casual about it, and they each have spoken to our listeners and and um talk about their journey. Were you, did you watch your diet? Were you uh, she's shaking her head, you can't see it on the radio.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Um I'm just trying to figure out how to answer that question because no, no, I just I ate what I want, wanted. I did what I wanted. But another thing was I was active too. So I was going to the gym and I was doing walk, doing those things, walking and so forth, but still, you know, I like my cakes. That was a problem. You know, I'd buy cake for because it's Tuesday. Like, hey, let's buy a cake, let's eat the cake. And so, but I I would just, if anyone's listening and you have a diagnosis, please pay attention to it. Please pay attention to um to your diagnosis of diabetes. It's very serious, very, very serious.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Now I want to go back to something you said earlier. You said that you were in an office, you drove. Um, what kind of work did you do?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

I worked for the patent and trademark office. So I was an applications examiner. And did you continue that as your site, as your vision changed? No, because actually, and I hope my supervisors aren't listening. I have been praying to say, God, anytime you're ready for me to go, please, I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

So um You don't mean the big go.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

You mean just I want to make sure. I'm not talking about dying. No, no, I am not talking about dying. I'm like, well, the Lord, but because I want to retire early. I'm like, God, I'm trying to get out of here because I was just bored. It was just the the work was repetitive, the benefits were wonderful, the hours were one, just uh the money was fine, all of that. But you know, I just felt like my creativity was stifled, and so it became boring. So I just asked God, like, God, if it's your will, you know, let me go.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

So, okay, okay. Uh, Minister Greg, you talked about being uh in the Marines.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Um, so the assumption is that one time that you had um that you were able to see what's your vision loss journey like?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Well, mine started after I got out of the Marine Corps and I was working civilian job, um, going to work every day, and um I started seeing some fading going on. So I started going to the doctor to find out, you know, what was going on. I had what they call floaters in my eyes, and they did those um laser, LASIK surgery on me and everything. And um so at a point he said, Well, I think you need to go to a higher professional to deal with what's going on with your vision. So I did, not gonna say the name. I went where he sent me, and um they gave me a more thorough operation on my eyes, and sent me home for two days, put a patch on my eye, told me to come back, came back, the doctor was sitting in front of me, and he began to take the patch off my eyes. And when he took them off, now remember, I went in seeing. I'm thinking I'm just gonna have a normal operation and I'm going back to work. Well, when he took the patch off my eyes, I couldn't see anything. And he's sitting in front of me. I said, Doc, what happened? Doc didn't say nothing. I said it again. I said, Doc, what happened? He never answered me. So I left. I didn't act out or anything like that. I left. I went home. I was saved at the time too. And I just started talking to I never started crying or what am I gonna do? What this and what I went home and I started talking to the Lord about it, and he asked me a question. He gave me a scenario. He said, Do you want to live blind or do you want to live free? This is what he said to me. And I said, God, I want to live free. So that was a changing point in my life. What he meant by free is free to continue to live a life that I can help other people, that I can do the things that I want to do without hindrance, without um thinking that I'm restricted, um, without expression. And that's what he taught me. When he said, Do you want to live free? He meant, okay, don't stop. That's what he was saying. Don't stop living. And and I want to encourage anyone that maybe you just got that diagnosed, maybe you just found out, or you may be losing yourself. Don't stop. Don't don't stop being productive, don't, don't stop living your life. Because God gave you that life. And he said, I come that you may have life and that more abundantly.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

So, Greg, you go into the doctor's office, you're a sighted man. Yes, you have surgery, yes, you come out totally blind. I I mean, real fundamental, how did you even get from the doctor's office home that first time? Because you didn't have any blind skills yet.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Right. Very good question. I had somebody, you know, that came with me. They took me home, and I had to learn. Your attitude is very important at this point. It determines your altitude, and and that's what God put in my heart. Your attitude determines your altitude. So I had a no-quit attitude. I I said, I'm gonna make it. And so I had to learn walking in the walls, doing all that other stuff. I had to uh I I love to cook anyway, so I had to learn how to cook and do various other clean, um, stay neat. My Marine Corps experience helped me with discipline.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

And right there, I'm gonna pause because we have to take an ID break. And that's the first thing I wrote down was a few good men. You know, the Marine only takes a few good men. That's what they say. Well, let's do our ID break, and I want you to come back and continue um telling us about your story and your adapting to blindness. This is the wash ear radio hour, the local voice of the blind, low vision, and print disabled. We are heard here every Thursday at 5 o'clock p.m. Eastern Daylight Time. Our special guests are Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin from Hope Ministry. And this is Hope Ministry on Washington, Hope Ministries on Wash Ear Radio Hour. Um, Greg was in the middle of telling us his adapting. He had told us earlier that he was in the Marine Corps and he walks into the doctor's office. He's sighted. He walks out, he is now total totally blind or low vision?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Totally blind.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Totally blind. And you took up, and God spoke to you. Yes. Um, God spoke to you. And so you started doing the things that you had to do. You were sharing about your experience in the Marine Corps, how it was a benefit to you.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yes, being a Marine, you learn discipline. And that discipline is not just physical only, but it's from the heart. It's spiritual. And there is a discipline within you, the Bible calls it the inner man. And so I encourage you to be strengthened with might in your inner man. Let the inner man get strength. Build up and edify your inner man. And that which you build up on the inside is going to show up on the outside. And that's what I did. I built up my inner man. I built up my confidence. I built up everything in me to be uh as normal as possible, but yet um I knew that there was more in me. And um, that's what God worked on with me. He said, you know, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Minister Elizabeth, um, how does God use an apostle with a visual impairment?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Well, I want to say he uses an apostle with visual impairment the same way he uses other people, in that a sighted person, he may show them something. He may show them, oh, look at that tree and what kind of tree is that, and so forth. But he can show me in my dream. He can show me, okay, well, look at this tree. This tree, the sap is coming down from the tree, and you see the birds or the insects, they're coming and they're getting the sap from the tree. So I'm feeding them or something like that. So he he can show me through sound. He can show me through my mind, like he could he could show uh anybody else. He can show me through his words. So, for instance, I could be listening to a uh scripture and um the Lord will bring something out of it that I had never heard. Like, what? Wait a minute, hold on, let me read this again. And so he can speak to me in that way. So he he's he's not limited on how he can speak, he he's never limited on how he can speak um to a person. So whether cited or not.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Now you talked about um, you know, reading the word and listening to the word. How do you read the Bible?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I use uh I you know they have these um what they call braille Bible uh cartridges, um, cartridges that people can buy, and it has a full Bible on there um with different versions, and it's a device, it looks like maybe a oversized credit card or something like that. That that's how big it is, and you could once you figure out you can go from chapter to chapter and verse to verse, but it has the entire Bible on it. Um and but I like going to Biblegateway.com, and so my computer has Jaws talking software on it, so I'll go to Bible Gateway.com, put in the the scripture patch passages I'm looking for, like Psalm 119, or if it's a specific verse, like Proverbs chapter 3, verse 5, and it will look it up. I can look it up in different versions and different languages if if need be. So I really like Biblegateway.com.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

But that's good for people to hear because oftentimes, you know, Minister Greg shared his story. Um, but so many times I met a woman, I was uh buying fish, don't judge. I was in there buying me some fried fish on a Friday, and there was a couple that walked in, and um the woman was using a cane, and that's usually my opening. I usually say, I notice you use the same kind of cane that my husband does, and that opens the door for me to be able to talk to them. And that was one of the first things that that she mentioned. She said, I miss going to church and I miss reading my Bible. And I said, Well, did you know that there are services for well, I started with, did you know that you can get uh a um a Bible that can talk to you? And she said, No, I didn't know that. And then I said, and there are other services for blind people. So I think so many times people feel like there are so many things that are cut off, but we know that there are lots of um services and tools now that make life more accessible for a person who's blind and low vision. Let me ask you one more question, uh Minister. Do you only um do you only minister to blind and low-vision people?

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Is that for me or that's for you? Anyone who will listen.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Anybody who will listen.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Um Pastor uh Minister Greg, um, when people say you have a visual impairment, how can you help me? What is your response?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I let them know that um you can make it. First of all, we have to have confidence in the Lord. Blindness does not mean that um we can't, it means we can. And it's in us to work it out. So that's what I tell them. You can. You can. And I have to keep saying it to them, you can. Nothing has stopped except when you stop. If I don't stop, it's not gonna stop. My growth is not going to stop.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Did you have any period of depression or isolating? I I have a number of of people that I've heard of lately that got have gone from low vision to blindness, and there is a period of grieving, a period of loss. Um, you talk about being a uh a Marine and how you, you know, that prepared God is so amazing and how He prepares us. I mean, who thought That being a Marine had anything to do with blindness or that it would shape your character in any way that you would be ready. Did you have that period of adjustment?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Um, no, I didn't, but that does not make me not sensitive to those that do.

unknown 22:17

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

We shall overcome. That's one of the key words that we have to keep in our heart. It's in us to win. Now, as a minister, we talk about winning souls, but we have to win ourselves. We have to win in our confidence toward ourselves, win in our attitude toward ourselves. So I would encourage them to win you. Win the you that that needs you to be one. And that means a lot, what I'm saying. But win you, first, win you, encourage you.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Is that having to do with self-love? You know, do we, you know, uh, you know, we talk about the body and that, and so many times we do all kinds of things to abuse our bodies uh here in this earthly. Um do we have to learn to love ourselves? A lot of us say we love ourselves, but we don't do we overeat, we uh we uh drink to excess and all. Do we have to love ourselves before we love Christ?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Well, love comes from Christ. That's what we have to understand, and when we talk about love, this is the essence of love. Love never fails, it it has no failing in it. When we love the way that God so loved us, and that's what he said. I he said, I so love you, so so love yourself. So, so, so love yourself.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

That was a difficult concept for me when I first um came into the church because I didn't join right away. I had to come into the church, but that being loved, I understood romantic love, many of us do, because there are plenty of examples. I understood parental love to know.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

I understood sibling love, I love, but somebody that could love me that completely. It was, I had to work on that. That wasn't a natural uh place for me. Um, so I hear you saying that love, and you say it with somebody who has learned self-love. Minister um uh Elizabeth, you're going to be conducting monthly Bible studies here on um the Washier Radio Hour. How do you see teaching different from preaching?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Oh well. Teaching one thing about teaching, depending, you have you have a little bit more time. Um so you can start preaching on uh Genesis 1 one week, and then you come back the next week, review it, and go on to Genesis 2 or stay right there. With preaching, you got one shot. And so it's not it's not really that different, but and both you have to be on it on it. Um you you have to be on it on it, and you have to make sure you have to know your audience, and uh you have to make sure that what you have is a word from the Lord. You have to really make sure to the best of your ability, um, God is this word for your people. Because again, it's his word and his people. And you don't want to go wrong, whether preaching it or teaching it, you don't ever want to go wrong. And sometimes you have to, I've had the second guess, I know I have to question myself, like, okay, um, is this what you want me to? Is this what sometimes our thoughts, you know, you hear so many messages, you read so, you know, you could just put something together really quick and like, oh okay, no, but like I wait a minute, is this you? Or you know, or should I change that? Let's even teach it. I I did not mention that I've been teaching children for a number of years. A number of years, and all they're sighted children at church. And so, you know, there were times where like, okay, I'm ready. Boom, I'm ready, and and I got this, whatever. And I get there on Sunday morning, and the Lord will say, Okay, well, do this. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So then I had to get somebody, okay, run around, okay, look, can we do this? Can we do this? Can we do this? And so forth. But it's a joy. I love teaching. It's a joy. Lord, have mercy. Teaching is a joy. And um, the Lord, when I started teaching the kids, um, I didn't want to, I heard about it, and my nephews were with me, and one of them picked up a sign and said, Auntie Lee, I think you should do this. And I said, Well, I don't know anything about that. And so he said, You do that, do do this with us at home. And so when I started doing it, I've God brought it back to my mind. He's been he has been preparing me for this since childhood.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Wow. How? How has he been preparing you?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

As a child, I would go and lock myself in a room and I'd be the teacher and the student. At school, I would have the teachers, do you have any extra papers? You know, they pass out papers. Do you have any extra? And they would give me the extra papers. So I'd lock myself in a room, and I'd be the students, teacher, raising my hand, and you know, and papers everywhere, books everywhere. But God let me know. That wasn't in vain. No, He had been preparing me for it for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

So I listened to both of your stories, and that's what I'm struck by that very thing. All of the things that seem unrelated until we get to this moment, this time, and you both find out, coming at it from very different uh positions, that God was preparing you all along. We're getting really close to our um uh uh our uh uh ID break. Well, no, it's actually our station break now. But on the other side, I'm gonna come back. I want to explore hope, helping other people to excel and experience God. So on the other side of the break, we're gonna talk about that, and then we're gonna talk about a few more things that occurred while we were listening to this interview. So this is the Wash Ear Radio Hour, the local voice of the blind, low vision, and print disabled. We are heard here every Thursday at 5 o'clock p.m. Eastern Daylight Time. Are you looking for an active older adult group that care about all of the issues facing older adults? Check out AARP number 939 of Suitland, Maryland, the only chapter in Prince George's County. President Catherine Williamson invites you to join her every first Thursday of the month at 12 o'clock noon at the Knights of Columbus Hall, 3611 Stewart Road, District Heights, Maryland. Yep, that's the Knights of Columbus Hall, District Heights, Maryland. The next meeting is Tuesday, the 4th of June. Need more information? Call them at AARP at I'm sorry, email them at AARP939 at yahoo.com. That's AARP 939 at yahoo.com. And back to Hope Ministries on the Wash here with Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin. Okay, on the other side of the break, I left you with a teaser. I want you to tell us what is hope, helping other people to excel and experience God. Minister Greg.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

This is our heart, and you just said exactly what it is. Our definition of hope is helping other people. When you have hope, it's not just for you, and that's what we want people to understand is to share what you have. Help other people to excel. And not only just to excel, but to experience God. That's hope. And that is very prevalent. Um, a lot of people think about me, myself, and I, but when you have hope, you think about others more highly than yourselves, and that is um something that you you you allow God to um live through you. I uh we call it live the let-go life. That's hope.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Live the let go life. You gotta unpack that one for us, brother.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yes, ma'am. That that's what we teach. Um, the let go life. The let-go life means the let go and let God. And um that's what you want to focus on as you are giving back to God. You know, this life of being a Christian is what we call fellowship. Fellowship is an exchange of life. So when we're in fellowship, say with one another, or we are in fellowship with God, I realize that I have something to get from God, and I also have something to give to God. I realize I have something to get from a friend or a family member, and I also realize that I have something to give to them. That's fellowship. Fellowship is an exchange of life, it's an exchange of love socially, emotionally, financially, emotionally, that's fellowship.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

That is a lot to reflect on, truly is. Now Minister Elizabeth, you talked about teaching children what you're currently doing, in addition to the work that you do here. We had a young teen on a few weeks ago, and we were teaching, we were talking about empathy. Um, she has two grandparents who both have disabilities, and we were talking about whether young teens, young young people, she's a teen, but whether young people really have empathy. Now we have established that you um are are blind, and I assume that most of the students you're teaching are cited. Do you think that your presence inspires them or encourages them or exposes them to empathy?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

It I think it exposes them to it, but they they they have to be trained. For instance, sometimes uh I'll say, Okay, we're gonna go upstairs, so they'll all leave out, and I was like, excuse me, no, no one can hold the door for me. Like, nobody. But then there's always one child who will come before I say anything, they'll say, Miss Liz, can I hold your hand? And can I walk with you? And so, and that's that does something to your heart. Lord have mercy. It does something warm your heart. So, so some children, they have it in their heart. They're born with it. It's just like God puts it in their heart to be careful and considerate of someone who can't see. Other kids, sometimes they're like adults, they don't know what to do. They don't stand in office, they don't they don't know how to help. They may be scared to help and so forth, but it's about, you know, making them comfortable with helping.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Well, you know, Jesus talked about let the little children come. And and so you are an example. Do you ever have children that you see change from being sort of standoffish to being more helpful? Uh, do you see that change, or do you have to continually expose them or teach, teach that lesson?

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Well, I think one child, um, when he first came to my class, he he was coming from uh, I guess, kindergarten, first grade, and you know, he didn't want to be in the classroom, so his dad had to tell someone. Um, I was like, it's gonna be okay. He had a twin, he has a twin sister. And so he just did not want to. I'm like, it's it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. Now he's talking, he's like, when when we stand up in circle to pray, he's he's always just about always right there, either my right side or my left, to hold my hand. And so he does a and his sister, his twin, the other day, she was like, Miss Linz, did you get a new cane? She was like, Oh, this looks like a new cane, and you know, and so she's helping too, and and they have um I just want I think they they're autistic kids. Okay. They have a little bit of autism or something like that, but their hearts, I mean, you know, that they're you know, they're fine, they're fun, they function, and all those types of things. Uh, but you know, some kids they just need a little but and and it depends on what's going on at home. Right. Yeah, a lot of things depends on depend on how you know what's going on at home, which the kids don't typically talk about, because we get all types of children who go through all types of things. So um I think being exposed, like you said, and just watching sometimes watching somebody else help will encourage them to uh also try to assist at some point.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

But but I think that as a teacher, I was a teacher, I think that that's what we're called on to teach. I mean, I think the whole discussion we're having today, Minister Greg was sharing how he had felt called to teach, not just to preach. You talked about teaching is an opportunity to go back and repeat a lesson until you get the lesson. Uh if I'm misquoting you, I apologize. But the preaching is a one-off. You know, you you may not get a chance to go back necessarily and get it, but if but you continue to expose these children and even adults. There are a number of adults who are unfamiliar with any person who has a disability, but blind and low vision, they don't know how to assist. They don't. And we're we and and part of what we're going to be talking about, how do you assist the person? One is don't go over and grab them. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

That sounds like the voice of experience.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Oh my gosh. We were at, we were, we were at church, we were having like, I think it was all night prayer. And so there was a lady um um who will come and help me, you know, just that's just how she was. And so she was like, Liza walking around, come on, let's walk around and pray too. So she didn't, you know, usually I grab a person's elbow because that's comfortable to me. So somebody came and snatched our arms apart and was like, no, she has to put her arm on your shoulder, whatever. Oh my gosh, it took me out this room. So took me out. And I said, Oh my gosh. I I just I couldn't, I didn't know who I was so upset. For a couple of minutes, I was upset. So the lady with me, she said, Liz, now you know the devil will send any type of distraction to get you off focus or whatever. Because I was I was so upset. And so what people don't have what people need to realize is there's no one way. If I know they say put your hand on a person's shoulders, but that's not comfortable for me. I don't know if it's comfortable for the other person. So, and as far as helping, it's what's comfortable between the two individuals. Whatever's comfortable for them, there's no one standard. So I wish they stopped saying that and putting things in books. And this is coming from people who side it who don't even know, um, you know, who don't have that experience as a as a blind person. So um that upset me to know and oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

But it's good that you were able to see it in that aspect and see it that it was a distraction. You know, it was a distraction in the church. Um and you you you know, we think that the church is somehow sacred and sacrosanct, but it, but, but we have a bunch of folks in there that that that need to work on some attitudes and some behaviors and and a number of prayer.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

You think you and my should be on prayer. Don't worry about when my haven known this lady on for years, and and and and she's been gathering me for years. If it was uncomfortable for me, I would have said something.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Just, you know, just you know. We have we have work to do, and that's why the two of you are on here. Because there are a lot of people since post-COVID that are not getting into church. Right. They're not gathering physically, and they rely a lot on the uh word that comes across the uh airways, and we want to be a part of that. Uh, it's it we're we're not suggesting that you you do this instead of church, but in addition to church. Amen. That's right. Now, uh the two of you co-teach. Uh Minister Greg, what is the challenge of co-teaching?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

It's uh flow, it's um getting together with the other person and um cohesion. Um continuity is a word that I use a lot. Um continuity, if it's not done right, it's just noise. But when continuity is done right, you know, when we were growing up, you used to have speakers that you had to plug wires into the back of it. And if you cross those wires and you turn the amplifier on, all you would get is static. But if you put them in right and you take them out, put them back in right the way that they're supposed to, then beautiful music comes out. That's how continuity is in the spirit. When you're flowing together, um when you uh make adjustments, you have to make adjustments um as you're ministering together. Um it's not just about you, it's about us now. So that that us mentality that, okay, let's compliment each other. That's what we're doing. We're complimenting and um we're flowing together. And it's one heart, one mind that's that's reaching out at the same time to multiple people. That's one of the things that you look for. It's a concert, it's a beautiful concert, and that's what we're presenting.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah, that's that's a great analogy because we know that all of those different instruments by themselves can play. Yes. When you play together, you have to be uh mindful of the persons next to you and and the and the cadence and the and the rhythm and when you come in. So, how do you decide on a teaching topic? Does God give you the same topic? Are you telling me?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

My story is totally different, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. She said challenges, right? He didn't he didn't go with any challenges. And so one challenge I had with the brother, with the brother uh from another mother is that he'll say, go with my flow. Just go with the flow. I'm like, I am supposed to know your flow, and I know God speaks to him, and I know God uses him, and he'll say, Well, he'll say something that we didn't go over. He's like, Well, Elizabeth, what do you have to say about that? And in my head, I'm like, I don't have anything to say, I don't know what y'all talking about. Just being honest and funny with here. But it's a challenge because God will speak to me about something we didn't go over, and I interject it. But I won't say come in and and because I know God just gave that to me. But um, it's the the challenge would be like, okay, God's speaking to him about something, and God is speaking to me about something like, oh my goodness, we we got to somehow make it work cohesively, and that's what Holy Spirit, please, please help us. Help us, help us, Lord, help us the Lord, because we come from two different backgrounds, and he's a studier. I mean, he sometimes he will go to sleep with the word. He would just let the word be point, and he'll go to sleep to the word. And I don't do that, but I will read, man. And I'll I'll look, and one of the things I love is is uh we haven't done this in a while though. I'll call him, I'm like, all right, Reverend, you owe me. And he's like, what? It's like, okay, we haven't played Bible trivia in a couple of weeks. He was like, all right, let me turn this TV off. And so we'll say, all right, Alexa, play uh a Bible game or Bible trivia or something like that, and we'll play and we'll compete. We'll have a friendly competition. And that's good because sometimes we'll find out something we didn't already know. You're like, wait a minute, hold up, let me look this up. Or even uh not even playing a game, we'll have a competition. I mean, I'm sorry, a conversation. Uh huh. And he'll bring up something. And I'm like, what? And he'll say something like, Well, you know, they called the Bible says that they called both Adam and Eve Adam. I'm like, uh-uh, where's that? Uh-uh. No. And I, me, I'm a researcher. I'm like, no. I gotta find it. I gotta find it because I hadn't seen it before. And I'm a learner. I love learning. I love learning. And show me something new. And I was like, wow. And then we were playing a trivia game, and it said, name Five Storm. And he said, What's that? Euraclodol. Say the name. And um, Ray Razor, he had to get off the phone. And so um we had to determine if he was right or not. So Ray Razor said, Well, I don't know, I don't always agree with Mr. Monk, but I put my money on him. I put my money on him. So we were having a conversation with him when he's digging at his church. And I'm like, I said, I've never seen that word in a Bible before, ever. I'm like, nah. Because it would have stand out words stand out to me.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

And so I went and I looked that thing up, and I was like, oh my goodness, I had never seen it before.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Eurachlodom. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

It's an X, I think X 27. X 27, yeah. Yeah. Because I look at it. I'm a look at it. I'm a look fan up. Yes. Yes. And I was like, how could I miss that word? Because I'm I'm a keen person on words. And I, you know, I'm like, oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Well, I'm going to look it up too because I've never heard that word either. And I'm like you. I'm I I like words. I like, yeah, I like to lose use words. And um, but Euraclodyme, that's a new one. Well, you know what it's time for. So we're gonna take a quick break here and we're gonna come back to our ministers here. Um, this is the wash ear radio hour, the local voice of the blind, low vision, and print disabled. We are heard here every Thursday at 5 o'clock p.m. Eastern Daylight Time. And we are here with two ministers from Hope Ministries here on the Wash Ear Radio Hour. They will be coming on regularly with their own show, Hope Ministries on the Wash Ear. And these are again Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin, and they are telling us part of their process. We're pulling the curtain back, and they're telling us how they prepare to come on to do the teaching that they will be coming on each month. So we're in the last uh quarter of our um ministry. I have um I I have a question that I want to ask you about what do you see, what do you want our listeners to know as you bring hope on the Washington um hope ministry on the Washington ear? What do you want to achieve, um Minister Greg? What what is your goal? What is what is your outcome?

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Well, we want to build up their inner man. Everything that happens outside starts inside. So we focus on the 2 Corinthians 4, 16, and it talks about being strengthened with might in your inner man. So we focus on strengthening the inner man. Um, the Bible talks about the heart, strengthening the heart. The heart is your spiritual operation center, that's where all of the issues of your life come from. Every issue, everything comes from your heart. And we want to focus on, and you have to take your time because everybody doesn't understand the change that um is provoked on the inside of you, and you have to again let go and let God and trust. Proverbs 3, 5, trust in the Lord with all of your spiritual operation center, your heart, and lean not to your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your path. That's what we focus on. Building up the inner man.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

And is that the same position that you take, Minister Elizabeth? Well, we know we're building up the inner woman, but is does the does is the message different in how we present to women?

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Well, that's an interesting question. I don't think the message is different. I think the reception might be. For instance, if I talked about the woman with the issue of blood and he talked about it, I'm talking about it from experience. Because women can understand that. He's talking about it from what he read and maybe what you know he saw or heard or whatever. But only women know what that means, and that and that's a wonderful thing. And I'm uh I thank God for the opportunity that women have to pull into other women. I think it's priceless. It's priceless.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

And with the co-teaching, do you think that you both reach a broader audience than you would if you were teaching singularly?

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Okay, no, I want you to go ahead, Minister Gray.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yes, I do. Um, you know, it's like sounds. Um, when you hear sound, one sound may uh stimulate me in one area, but it could stimulate her in another area. The beauty of it. That's what I'm talking about when I say stimulate. It brings a calmness or an exuberance or you know, something that touches you in a certain way. So we're like um God sound, and we're playing to you, to your heart, to your mind, to your will, in such a way that you say, Oh, I like that. That was nice. And she would, and in her way, ooh, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Going with the going with the flow, right? Go with the flow. Just go with the flow. I usually I usually do this with Reverend Ray, and so I know that go with the flow. Like, no, I'm not a flow girl. I need notes. I need notes. Exactly. Okay, so do you think that the I'm gonna ask you the same question. Do you think that the both of you co-teaching, that it broadens your um reach to people who are listening?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

I do because we come from two totally different perspectives. Oh my goodness. And we talk about, for instance, in certain cases, he may be able to reach more women just because I have a city of track. And so, you know, women will flock to a male speaker or preacher, whatever, quickly. But then I might come up with something, and it may trigger the fellas to say, uh, wait, could you repeat that? Well, what do you have to say about that? From my background, just being the only girl with brothers and uncles and all that and nephews and all that type of stuff. So I might come with a different perspective. And I might come for something for the women, but it'd be up to them if they accept it or not.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Well, you know, we're running out of time, but I we do have time for you both to respond to this. What do you want to achieve with your radio ministry? And Minister Greg, I'll start with you.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Excellence. Um, excellence to the hearers. We want to edify. Love is the number one thing that we want to um reveal. Um love and understand. He said, with all you're getting, he didn't say get understanding. So we we want to give love, understanding, peace, and just we want them to say, I want that. I want that. Amen. Mr. Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

I would say to that we're spiritual male persons, so God gives us the mail to get to the audience. So I want to deliver whatever God gives us in the way that the audience will receive it, that the audience will will know, oh, that had to be God speaking to us. That had to be God. There's no way. We want to, in some way, empower those who visually impair, like, okay, well, I can read the Bible for myself and I can study it too. And maybe, hey, maybe one day I can teach it or I can preach it too. Because the opportunities are there. The opportunities are there, and we want people to get back into the word. Turn the TV off, turn the computers off, turn the lexa off. Read your word. Read your word and don't read it as if it's a dull book. Um, Genesis in itself is, in my opinion, the soap opera of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Oh, now that's a different tape. How so? Expand on that. How is Genesis soap opera?

SPEAKER_01 53:59

All types of things go on in the Bible. You got you got two sisters fighting over one man and one of them saying, Well, look, hey, if you let me sleep with your husband, uh husband tonight, I'll give you some aphrodisiacs. Okay, well, let's let's go. You have all types of stuff going on in oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

I'm gonna have to look at it in a diff from a different point of view.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

Oh, yeah, you got yeah, Genesis, please. You stay in Genesis. I'm trying to tell you. I'm trying to tell you.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Yes. I'm glad that you said that. Um, do you think that um, and and and I'm glad that we took the time today for our audience to get to know you because you will be ministering each week. Do you think you're more effective because you have had a shared life experience to many of our listeners?

SPEAKER_03 54:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Give me a few more words, Minister Greg, and then we'll let uh Minister Elizabeth follow up.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

I I will say this. I've learned something. Experience is not the best teacher, but unity with God is. And we will have the chance to explain that more. But that I have found um was something that has changed my life. I thought experience was the best teacher, but it's not. It's knowing God, getting to know Him. That's the best teacher.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

And you're gonna have the last word, Minister, Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

We've been where some of you are. We know about the initial blindness, the initial issues, the loss of you can't work anymore, you can't drive anymore, you have to deal with family and their embarrassment. We've been, we've we've been there, but God helped us not to stay there. And he hit He's helping us to thrive and to keep on moving, as Minister Martin already said, to keep on moving and to keep on living. Why? Because we got him. Life is worth living because we got God on our side, honey. We got God.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Well, you know, on that note, we have to close, but we are going to look forward to the teaching from Hope Ministry. And again, Hope is helping other people to excel and experience God. Uh, they will be coming on every week, and we will have uh a new way of letting you know. We're getting a new website, so people are going to be able to find us more easily. So, both, thank you so much for being here. And we want to thank you for listening to the Wash Ear Radio Hour, the local voice of the blind, low vision, and print disabled. This has been Hope Ministries on Wash Ear Hour with Minister Elizabeth Norman and Minister Greg Martin. And if you want to hear this show again or one of our past shows, go to our website, washear.org, the wash ear radio hour, the subject Hope Ministry on Wash Ear Radio Hour. And this has been a Razor Edge production.