42. Kellie Finlayson: The NFL vs the AFL, and Thriving Despite Diagnosis

Find Kellie on Instagram & TikTok

Kellie Finlayson's Book: There Must Be More: Finding Purpose in a life with cancer

Kellie's Symptom Tracker

Guest: Kellie Finlayson — AFL WAG, stage 4 colorectal cancer survivor, author, and advocate based in Australia.

Episode Description: Kellie Finlayson flew from Australia to Dallas to catch a Cowboys Thanksgiving game — and ended up in the cheerleaders' locker room. That's the kind of woman she is. But Kellie's story goes so much deeper than football. She's the wife of 12-year AFL veteran Jeremy Finlayson, a mom to four-year-old Sophia, a published author, and a stage 4 colorectal cancer survivor who was told she had three years to live — three years ago.

In this episode we get into the AFL vs NFL (chaos ball, anyone?), WAG culture in Australia vs the US, what it's really like to be a partner in pro sports, and then Kellie opens up about seven years of being dismissed by doctors, her diagnosis at 26, chemotherapy on her birthday, and how she's given her experience purpose through her book, There Must Be More.

This one hits different. Don't miss it.

Topics Covered:

• How a Cowboys Thanksgiving game converted an AFL girl
• Breaking down Australian rules football for NFL fans
• AFL vs NFL: pay, ownership, fan culture, and merch
• WAG culture in Australia vs the US — and why the NFL is changing the game
• Jeremy's 12-year AFL career and what delisting actually feels like
• Seven years of being dismissed by doctors before a stage 4 diagnosis
• Starting chemo on her 26th birthday
• How Kellie and Jeremy's relationship survived it all
• Writing her book There Must Be More — and dropping it off to friends before running out the door
• What NOT to ask someone who is seriously ill
• Why aging is a privilege, and how Kellie is living her 30s differently

Links:

• Follow Kellie on Instagram: @kellie_finlayson_
• Get her book, There Must Be More: Available on Amazon
• Her symptom tracker: https://www.trustyourgut.org.au/

Transcript

Cold Open & Show Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:04

You a baddy, baby. You better own it on a spelling it grease. You better own it on the game.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

The game's on, the game is on. Games on. Games on, games on. Games on. Games on games on. You better own it on a spelling it grease.

unknown 0:21

You better on it.

Meet Kelly Finlayson

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Hey, it's Victoria. The game's on. Welcome back to another episode of your favorite football podcast by the girls for everyone, the game. Today, I have a very interesting guest for you. I am interviewing Kelly Finlayson. She is an author, an advocate, an influencer, a public speaker, and an AFL Wag. If you're thinking, I know everything about the NFL and the WAGs. What is the AFL? The Australian Football League. So Kelly is married to a previous AFL superstar on the Port Adelaide AFL team, Australian Football League. And today we are talking all about the differences between the NFL and the AFL, her experience as a WAG in the AFL. We get a little bit into talking about money. Please note that this conversation was recorded pre-Super Bowl. So we do say go Seahawks. We were on the right side. But if you hear Super Bowl talk, that is why. Also, in the episode around 40 minutes, we get into Kelly's personal story outside of the AFL. She received a diagnosis in 2021 while she had just a three-month-old. She was diagnosed with stage four colorectal cancer. Since then, she has become an advocate. She has learned to live vibrantly and share a positive story with people around her. She's become a leading voice for Bowel Cancer Australia. She has written a book, her memoir, reframing the big C, and gotten into public speaking. What I love about the episode so much, and one of my favorite takeaways, is her advice on what to do if somebody in your life is going through a similar diagnosis and what to say and how to approach them in a way that is helpful to someone going through something similar. I cannot wait for you to hear this episode. Thank you for being here. If you haven't already, make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode from us here at the game. If you want more right away, the game the podcast on Instagram. I'm at Hey Victoria Henderson, both on Instagram and TikTok for us and the show. And if you want to join our all group girls group chat, you can go to thegame the podcast.substack.com, also where our newsletter is. Without further ado, let's get into the episode of Kelly. Kelly Finlayson, welcome to the game.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I'm so excited to have you. I'm so excited to talk to you about the NFL, the AFL, WAG culture, your story, your life story, your family. So I want to start because you recently flew from Australia to Dallas. You're wearing a Dallas Cowboy shirt right now to go to the Cowboys game. How did you, how did you become a Cowboys fan?

Becoming A Cowboys Fan

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Do you know what? I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna be really real with you. It's definitely the cheerleaders that got me on board. Um I mean that and obviously being invited to a game, like I kind of couldn't go against it. The really hard part, I guess, is that my husband's a diehard Chiefs fan. So when it was a Chiefs first Dallas, like all Cowboys game, it was really tough for me to go against his like dreams, essentially. I definitely did cheer when Mr. Swift got a touchdown. As you should. Obviously, like I did this little dance with him, but then really quickly learned that the fans are quite passionate and that if I did that again, I might get kicked out. Yeah, I've obviously following Dallas through the cheerleaders, which makes so much sense, especially now that there's an Aussie cheerleader there, which is really really cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I didn't realize there was an Aussie cheerleader.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, so she was a rookie this year, but um, yeah, she was great. She's the one that wears the ponytail.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Okay, I need to look her up. That's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, her name's Faith. She's great.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Wow. Okay, so Cowboys fan by the cheerleaders, which makes complete sense. Yeah. How was the experience at the Cowboys? Because you got to go on the field. Obviously, being at the star in Dallas is insane. Like, even if you don't go into the game, the bars, the restaurants, the culture, all of that is so fun. So, how was the experience coming like from what you know of Australian football and going into the Dallas Cowboys life?

Inside AT&T Stadium On Thanksgiving

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah, it I thought it would there'd be so many similarities, but it is so wildly entertaining. Like it's like a movie all the time. There's no like downfall, like there's no quiet time I feel when you're like within that stadium, especially. But of course, being a Thanksgiving game as well. I didn't know, I guess, the importance or like how big that game was until I was there in the stands. But apparently it's second to the Super Bowl, and like it felt that way as well, which might have like, I guess, amped up how good it was. Like, I don't know obviously what a normal week would be, but I can only imagine it'd be very similar. Like the fans are wild, which just makes the experience so much more exciting, I guess, for someone that hasn't been before. Like I've done the college ball in Hawaii, which was really fun, and so was the basketball, which was obviously a different story, but it is really fun. But like being within that stadium on such a big game, and they won. Like it was just it was wild. But again, being like a cheerleader fan over being a football fan mostly, going into the cheer room, into their locker rooms. I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. And admittedly, I didn't know a whole lot of the football players because I have followed cheaps with my husband, so like I know I know them. Like the the name Mahomes is thrown around like it, like he's our mate. Yeah, which is I've never met him. Um but yeah, the I guess there's not really much of a difference in terms of like the stadium itself, like it is exactly the same, like holds the exact same amount of people as the VMCG, which is like our main football ground here in Australia, where I think there's eight teams in Victoria, which is their like home ground. We don't all have our own home ground, we have like one between whoever lives in that state.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

No way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

So there's two two teams in the state that we live in. So we share a home ground and we like alternate each week who plays there.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

And then the other team will like fly to the anyway. So that's how it works here. So it holds the same amount of people, but like the standing room isn't really something here. Okay. So like seeing people like literally sprint to those balconies. I was like, guys, we all have a ticket, what's going on? But then I realized if they don't get to the front, they're watching the TV, they might as well be at home. Yeah. Like it was wild.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Standing room is crazy. Like, I think most stadiums at this point have it. And those tickets are always so much cheaper to get. And so you can kind of get them like last minute cheaper. But even so, I was actually also at that game, but we didn't get tickets. We were just at the star. We're not, we weren't, we've never been like a big football on Thanksgiving family, but we were in Dallas and we're like, let's go to the star. And then obviously I had this show. So I was like, this is great for me. Like, I'm I'm ready to go. So we ended up staying in the star because even standing room only tickets were like$250 a piece for standing room. And we're like, we're not gonna go in early enough to get good standing room. Like, we might as well hang out here and like have a couple of beers and and like enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

It's like the hunger games getting to that front. Like it's wild. I was like, what is going on? Why why are we sprinting? We all have a ticket. No, we don't. Yeah, actually, you do. You have an on-field past these people, these peasants, you don't go yeah. I know. I did you know, I did feel a little bit like that when it's like VIP section when we're going to our seats. I'm like, I'm like, I don't know if we can go in there to get to go to use that bathroom. And then I was like, oh, a ticket says we can go in there. And I'm very used to having those tickets here. Obviously, being a partner, like you've that we get like media room, we get like inside and all of those places, which is fantastic. It's brilliant, especially when you have a child having protection. But yeah, being over there, I was like, there's no way I get that. But I did, it was great. It was great. I was like, I see how they live now. I like this.

Dallas Cheerleaders Up Close

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Were you um were you as impressed with the cheerleaders in real life as you thought you were gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

It was a buck at least moment, genuinely. I have always loved cheerleaders no matter what form they come in. Like obviously the DCC has made a big name for itself in the last, you know, three or four years. Beforehand, I'd never heard of them, which kind of like hurts my soul that they have only just gotten their moment. Like they've always been around. It's they're probably big over there, and that's been a thing forever, which is great. But watching dance, like as a dancer as a kid, I've done dance since I was two years old. So like it was just such a like, oh my god, I made it moment, just watching this happen. Like that high kick into the split. I'm like, there's no way that it's that in sync every single time. Like in the movie, you choose the best one, right? No, it's like that every single, every single time.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Like they do not miss a beat. Even with their skip, that they are off the ground at the exact same time every single spike. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Their ability to consistently produce at that high of quality every game. It's why they are who they are, though, because that's the most probably cutthroat team in the US. And so they they've been famous like forever, like very, very long time in the US. And the Cowboys used to be like very widely considered America's team. Now that's kind of fallen to the wayside. Like people, tech and people in Texas are gonna get mad at me. But but now people don't, we don't consider it America's team as we used to. And then with like the docuseries of the Cowboys cheerleaders, they've gotten like worldwide recognition, but they've always been like diamonds to America.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And I can see that, I can genuinely see that being in that room.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yeah, because they're they're gorgeous, they have high energy, like they're the face of the organization, and like, yeah, there are the players, but the cheerleaders and their brand has been one of the most consistent things about the Cowboys forever, like since Super Bowl era, since before Super Bowl era, probably. Okay. So yeah, yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild and so cool. Did you get to meet any of them or did you just get to see them?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, we met a couple of them. A couple of the rookies were there training for the post-malone, like their dance that they were doing. Yeah. But we got meet a couple of them. But I, like I said, I already know the Australian tear leader faith. So it wasn't that big of a deal to meet them. It was more so just like seeing them in real life was just so cool. Like it wasn't like a fangirl moment, it was more like a oh my god, they're actually incredible moment.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

It's like seeing an artist, I feel like seeing a performer that is obviously great. Like Taylor Swift, for example. Like, she's obviously great, like clearly, like she sells out stadiums worldwide. But like seeing her in real life, it's like, oh my gosh, you are genuinely so talented.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the wow factor of they are as good as they appear on online or when they're highly produced in it.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, exactly right. Like you expect it to just be like so like highly produced, like you said, but it was nah. It was it was real life, and they were just so magical.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I love that. I love it when you go to a concert of an artist that you love and they sound better in real life, and you're like, how does that happen? Like you are a star and I'm just in awe of you.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, like the talent is real. Yeah, it's like people take everything to my money.

unknown 12:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, so what I've learned about the AFL is that the field is double length and about one and a half wide of an NFL field.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

But they also have more players on the field. So I feel like it makes sense. Okay. Like we have 18 each team.

unknown 12:38

Yeah.

AFL 101: Rules And Flow

SPEAKER_00 12:38

But we also don't swap out to come in for a defense or an offense. Like they're on the field the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Okay. For the girls who were like me up until like two days ago and don't know anything about the AFL. Do you want to give like a general rundown of what to expect at an AFL game?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah. So, like what you said earlier is kind of like chaos ball, which is it it does make sense for someone that doesn't understand the field. There are forwards, which I guess are offensive, and there are defense, which obviously sounds right. Like key back, key backs are defensive, and key forwards are forwards. They kick goals. But everyone on the field can not only use their hand, they can handball it forward, or they can kick it forward. We don't kick backwards, which is great. There are some codes of football that go backwards, which I don't get. But yeah, we can use our hands or everyone can kick it. There's not a designated kicker. There's anyone can kick a goal, there's points and goals, and that's how we score. We obviously don't touch the ball on the line, otherwise, the other team gets the ball if it goes out. So there is no try. It's just we kick the ball to get a goal, and everyone can get it. Anyone can get a goal, even the key back.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, and in the NFL, you have to be like a designated receiver. And if you're not, then as Dan Skipper showed us, if you don't, well, he declared, but if the refs don't say you declare it, then your touchdown gets taken away from you, which I'm not salty about at all, even though it was two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

That's wild. That's if sorry, but if you get it down there, you get you get the ball. If you're in the end zone, like it should count. Right. Makes no sense to me. I'm sorry. But he should, if he shouldn't be there, then he's working harder. Give him the points. Yeah, if you're working that hard, you deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Right. I get that. Put that touchdown number one on his stats, please.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I I agree.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So in the AFL, so when you say punch, it's literally like you have a fist and you're like kind of tossing the ball up a little bit and punching the ball out of your own hand forward.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, well, that's that yeah, that's like a ball up. That's just how we start the game. And usually in the midfield, so there's like six players, three from each team in the midfield that have to like then try to get it to their forward line or defend the person that gets the ball first. But yeah, it is so confusing to explain. But my husband was a key forward, so he just stood in the stood in the front circle.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

He's like, that running looks cool for you guys.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah, he's also very tall and lanky. So I feel like the running is probably not gonna go very far. Um but he also did ruck and he was like he backed up. So he likes rucking is the people that do the punching in the middle. Okay. If someone was injured, he would ruck, which was hilarious because he's a tall man, but he's not a tall man when it comes to rucking, like he's like 10 centimeters shorter, right? And really quite skinny, whereas rucks are quite solid.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

So yeah, he got like he was basically a fourth midfielder. So he he did really well. But it was yeah, it's really hard to explain because you can quite literally get tackled from any angle and there's no padding. No padding, no padding, you can no shoulder pads, there's no chest padding, no helmets, no helmets. Yeah, and that's why we have so many medically retired footballers because I get too many concussions.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Right. So essentially it is like basketball plus soccer plus football. A little bit of handball, yep. A little bit of handball, and you have to kick the ball through the uprights to get six points. And if you kick it, so there's four four posts, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

The middle ones are six points, and the outer ones are one point.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

And if you are a backliner and you don't want them to get a goal and you've got the ball, you can rush the ball through the posts so they get one point.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Okay. Yeah. So essentially every goal in the AFL is like the punt for a kick return, except you're you're quoting it, dropping it, you're drop kicking it through the through the uprights to score.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah, and that's why there's so many Australian kickers in the in the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Because I believe we have four or five. Last year, I there was an article last year that said five, I believe, Australian kickers in the NFL.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

There's probably more, they just are like the fourth in line. Yeah, they still get paid to be there. So, like, brilliant, no injuries, and they're technically NFL listed.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

They're probably in the locker room. Like, what are these pads? This is so heavy. I don't want to do this. Like, this is beer bar.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

You make me put this on when my husband retired from AFL. I was like, should we try the NFL? Great kick, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

You know?

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I was like, you wouldn't play. Yeah. The so I'm a Detroit Lions fan, and the Detroit Lions, their kicker, Jake Bates, was laying bricks as his job, like a brick layer in construction. And then they picked him up. And he's like one of the most accurate kickers in the league. And he was like doing this totally random job.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

So, what's the oldest kicker in the league? Does he have does he still have a chance?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

You do. Um, so we have four players this season over 40. Oh, he's got 10 years. Yeah. So Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback for the Steelers currently, and he is 42 or 40. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

That's not just the kicker.

Toughness, Injuries, And No Pads

SPEAKER_01 18:16

No, no, not just the kickers. Yes. We have Aaron Rodgers. He's 40, yeah, 42. Phillip Rivers was the quarterback for the San Diego Chargers when I was a child. I see. He went to the Colts for like his last season and then he came back this year at 44 years old and played three games.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

The money must have run out.

unknown 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

They had this insane quarterback, young quarterback, Daniel Jones. They were killing it. Everyone was so fired up about the Colts. And then he had an injury and then tore his Achilles on his other leg. So he went out and they called Philip Rivers, which was crazy. And then Philip Rivers is now getting like coaching interviews, which I believe he just pulled out of all the coaching interviews. And then there's a kicker, Matt Prater, who is the Buffalo Bills kicker, and he's 41.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Okay, well, that's that's great. I think the oldest that we've got is 36. And like this will be his last year. Like, that's a massive career. Like our average career is three years.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I think the NFLs is something like that as well. You just don't really hear about it. And a lot of it is just because there are so many high-level players that they don't get redrafted. I don't think it's necessarily exactly just because of injury. I think it's just like it's really hard to get a spot.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, of course. Well, there's a team, you know, there's not enough teams in the world to have everyone that is good at football on them.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah. Yeah. But kickers, I mean, sounds like Jeremy Finlayson is up-and-coming kicker. Who do I need to contact? I know, I know a couple of wives and girlfriends. Yes. I can uh I can put you in touch. Thanks. I'll just start texting. I'll start texting them as player profile. Yes. And be like, you should just start saying this name a lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah. In front of the coaches specifically. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. List managers, what do they do? I don't know.

unknown 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Oh my gosh. I love it. Okay. So we have the ball goes through the uprights. If somebody gets injured in the US, we have like a huge, we have an injury timeout. In the AFL, you just have to get off the field. Yeah, play keeps playing.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Unless it's a head injury, play keeps playing.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting. So there's no pads. And part of what I'm imagining in my head is in the US, our linebackers are like 320 pounds. Like huge, huge men. Oh, scary. Scary. Yeah. And start running. Yeah. And in the AFL, I read a stat that the players run like 13 miles on average per game. And if you can't really run 13 miles at 300 pounds, like your body just won't be able to handle it. So I guess if you're running that much, then impact is just like different, which maybe makes sense for less pads. And like it's a smaller person hitting you who probably has a little bit less energy.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah. I feel like the average weight of like the ones that are running that fast and far is like 80 kilograms, which is like what, 160 pounds-ish?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Ish. Maybe a bit more. So maybe like 200 pounds max, right? So like my husband's like 100 or at like his peak is like 198 kilograms or something like that. It's like it's all muscle. Like they're literally skinny and muscly. Like they've got not an ounce of fat on them. They literally get a skin test. So they get their skin pinched to see if they're like on track to being as athletic as they think. Possibly can be. Like their body fat percentage is like 9% max. So they're all really fit athletic, agile players, which obviously would hurt less, but also if you could be running in one direction and there's someone coming from this direction, someone coming from this direction, and they still get thrown to the ground.

Kickers, Careers, And Longevity

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah. I mean, when I was watching a lot of like replays and things like that, and some player interviews are like, Yeah, I just my shoulder popped out, my jaw popped out.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

They just like pop it back in, get a cortisone injection, and run back on.

unknown 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Okay. So how as a wife of a player, were you anxious every game, or have you kind of become numb to it a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah. I know I wasn't all that anxious often. I mean, my husband's really quite tall. So like his head was never really an option of being hurt, which was fantastic, obviously, as a wife, because that's the thing you're most worried about. Is obviously.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah, you're like if you break your arm, you're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

You'll be okay. Like do an ankle, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, obviously injuries suck. That's right. Their body is quite literally their tall. It's fine. But yeah, I feel like the littler ones, like the the midfielders that are running around in all these different directions, when they get hit, I'm like, but like my husband's never had the issue of like a concussion or anything. He's done, he's had one ankle injury. He had a he did rupture his spleen, but he thought he just broke his rib, which happens like all the time. So it's fine. He thought he broke his rib, so he played out the game and then flew home as well. So like four hours home. And then realized that he'd had a ruptured spleen and like was bleeding out internally. So that's probably the only injury he's actually had. So I never really had the fear of like, oh, it's gonna happen again because he's only happened once. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that makes sense. And I feel like you can't go in being worried about it because that's not gonna help anyone. Oh, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

And like obviously, when like friends' partners got hit and they're a bit shorter, I would like fear for their their health. And like ACLs, I feel like they're like obviously they're a career, or they're a year-ending injury anyway. So, like that's them done for 12 months, which is just devastating. But yeah, Jeremy never really had his longest was the spleen, it was 10 weeks, so it wasn't too bad.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Okay, yeah. And okay, tell us how did you and Jeremy meet?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah, so we great story. We I live we live in Adelaide now, which is like down south of Australia.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

But he used to live in Sydney and play for the Giants, which was like literally only built and like established in 2010. And he started playing for them in 2012. So, like very fresh team. Anyway, so we met when we were 21. He in Sydney, Justin Bieber was here, and he was playing at their stadium. So we met at a Justin Bieber concert. Thanks, Justin. Genuinely, I wish I met him, but it's fine. I met my husband. According to the internet, him and Haley have been married since they were it's gone. Since they were it's for 10 years anyway. So I had obviously had no choice.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

The universe wanted you to be where you completely unfortunately, but unfortunately. I had a lot of media heat, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Ah, so is I feel like so is Jeremy in Australia. You probably don't see it over there, but really, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Okay, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Oh, it's just always. I feel like they're always in the limelight, they can't put a finger wrong, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah, yeah. That's like, I mean, same thing here. It's especially with social media, the NFL and big sports are just everywhere, and the players are under like a different type of pressure and criticism. And I think some do it really, really well. And I think that there's a lot of like favoritism with players. So some players will like get away from get away with things, and then it's the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

It's the same, yeah. Yeah, and there's like the umpires' favorites, and then they obviously never get like reported or anything. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Interesting. Okay, so in in America, we have especially, I mean, this is the refs have always been a problem. So we call refs not umpires, but they've always been a problem. But over the past couple of years, we had now have like replay assist on so many plays in the NFL, but it's that like using the camera vision, yes. Yep. So they'll take like all of the camera angles and show them to the refs.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yep, no, yeah. I remember this happening actually at the game. Yes, yeah, a lot.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Yeah. They don't trust themselves anymore.

Subculture: WAGs, Fashion, And Perception

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah. And so it's crazy because they'll use replay assist for some plays, but not for other plays. And there are special rules on when you can use it. And so there's a lot of people from a lot of teams really angry at the refs. And you'll see one call in one game that seems like it's wrong, and then you'll see it go the other way in the other game, and it's like, what is happening? And why aren't we using replay assist effectively, or why aren't we like using any kind of AI to like actually make consistent calls? What is the ump situation like in the AFL? You said there's like favoritism and like politics.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, there's always, I feel like footy politics are the hardest politics to understand, which is especially being in it. I feel like from an outsider perspective, you can probably agree with them a little bit more. But well, obviously, there's only three of them on the field. There's we've got the outsides as well, but the like the boundary umpires. But the three of them on the field have to be everywhere. They have to have eyes everywhere to be able to see obviously what's happening. So when something goes missed and we see it, but they don't, it's just like an uproar. But there's a few that like the favourite is and the ones that win their awards every year, it's because their names are stuck in the umpires heads. They could have a really bad game. For an example, like one of the rounds, there was two teams playing against each other. There was a standout player that quite literally won his team the game off his own foot, like genuinely won the game himself. And he didn't get best player for that game because the guy that got it was an umpire's favorite, and they just knew that he would have played well. So, and he did, don't get me wrong, he did play well, but he wasn't the best on the field. And like examples like that, or like someone got subbed off. So we've got subs. So we can you can sub one player off, they don't come back on the field at all ever again for that game, but another player steps into his place, and now they are playing in the the 22 that play. So we've got four on the bench usually and a sub. And yeah, so you can sub them on anyway. Someone got subbed off at halftime, but he's still got best player for that game. So, like obviously, the umpires just they just don't see it, they're not allowed to see the statistics or anything like that when they're deciding. So they genuinely just have to go off of like what names do they think would have played well if they weren't sure. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

That is wild.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

I know it's so wild. But honestly, our fans are like umpires as well in the stands. Like you hear you hear an uproar and then an umpire will change its decision, or like a ball will go out, and like the fans of the team that kicked it out will cheer. So the umpires were, oh, obviously, it's their ball. Like what? I'm sure that doesn't happen often, but like we've seen some fun things. Yeah. But do you guys have like big screens and stuff? Yeah, we've got one or two. Not as big as the star.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like inside inside of Cowboys, and then there's also like SoFi Stadiums, a huge stadium in LA. Just massive, like every stadium that gets built has bigger and bigger screens, which is great when you're like up in the nosebleeds, yeah, but not as great when you're like craning your neck to look up.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, no. Well, I mean, if you're craning your neck, then you're in a good state to just watch the field, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we talked about before we hit record that wives and girlfriends are not as well received in Australia as they are here in America.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, it's almost seen as like an insult to be labeled a WA. Like it's it's the truth. We are either wives or girlfriends of these players. But I feel like when we are put into that category, people like look down on us. Like, that's our only title. For example, I got Papped the other day and it was like ex-WAG stuns in pink dress, and everyone was like, She has a fucking name. Which, like, I get that point of view, but at the same time, like, if you are a WAG, you're like seen as entitled, or like that, that you literally are just living off your partner. And it's like, well, it's not true. Like, I have a job. But like, yeah, it's it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah. I think there's a lot of wags here that don't love the term wag. And I think it's for the same reason that being called a wag basically puts you into this bucket that you're living off of your partner's money, which also, if you are, who cares?

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Um also, I I know a lot of mums that uh stay-at-home moms and they don't have a husband that plays in the football league. And like nobody's getting mad at them. No. In fact, if you went back to work, you get looked down on. So, like, yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Being a woman, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Right. But I think that do you know Kristen Uzek?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Oh, I've heard the name, yes. Okay, yeah. So she makes, she has a brand called Offseason, and she got started just making reworked stuff for wives and girlfriends, and Taylor wore her stuff, and she basically blew up.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

That's how I know her. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yep, yeah. So she basically like blew up after that. And I feel like her like class, but her and other girls building businesses off of the platform that they were given has changed the culture a lot here, where at least women respect them a lot more and are interested. And then now we're seeing so much fashion in the NFL world. Like every game is a fashion show for the girls. The girls are starting their own businesses, they're influencers, they're doing events, they have podcasts, they have YouTube channels. And then, like Jalen Hurts, who's the Eagles quarterback and you know, won the Super Bowl last year. His wife is like in the C-suite at like IBM, and there's like physicians assistant. So I feel like our culture is changing a lot, but I feel like the NFL is also in a renaissance where the NFL is looking to reach more audiences, namely women. So doing partnerships with like Abercrombie and going to Europe and they're trying to like expand a lot. And I think that their tone around wives and girlfriends and the way that they put them on their social media is also helping the girls a lot.

Ownership, Money, And AFL Structure

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Oh, they celebrate them. They celebrate them, which is, I think, is incredible. Like you said, in terms of the fashion as well, like if a grown man wears a guernsey to an NFL game, we're like literally they're looked down on they're like, when do you stop wearing a Guernsey to the football? Which is so wild because obviously you go to an NFL game and every single person has at least some sort of merch on, right? Like I used to wear quite NFL coated, I guess, like jackets with fin lace and a news number and stuff on my back. And people would he used to get like fined at the footy club for having me wear that jumper. Like they have like their fine system for like funny fines, right? It could be like a$50 fine, and it just goes to like their end of season party or whatever. Anyway, but like, and then you go to the NFL and like they literally got like their husband's name on their ass, or like stars all up their pants, and like I saw someone wore pajamas the other day to a Christmas one. I'm like, see, they don't even get looked at twice, and then we wear a jacket with our husband's name on it, and it's like, what are you doing? I'm like, it's such an exciting thing. Like, we they should be celebrating just as much as like, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm in love. What do you do when you're in love? Yeah, you do okay, but also like I've got a daughter, she's allowed to wear a Guernsey with his name on it. Why can't I? Yeah. Wait, is it is a Guernsey? What you call a jersey? Yeah, Guernsey jersey jumper. Yeah, same, same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I've never heard that word. I'm gonna start calling my my jerseys a Guernsey. Guernsey, people will believe that. What are you talking about? We'll be like, well, one time I interviewed this Australian Like this this merch wouldn't exist for the AFL.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

And if it does, like so much money, so much money. I've got a ugly jumper in my husband's like old teams colours, which because he had teal black and white, which I think are such beautiful colours. I've like this ugly, like patterned jumper that I wore to a game once, and they were like, oh. I was like, it's so cool. Like they wear off at most. Yeah. I'm like, well, who is the real fan?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, you're like, you're just wearing a t-shirt. How boring.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah, literally. Like, come on, guys. I love it. I love the merch. Like going to the game, I literally had stars on my jeans and everything. I was like, this is so much fun. If I did that here, I would literally get looked at sideways.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

That is really it's really surprising because it's so much apart. Like, we have the Green Bay Packers, and they're from Wisconsin, and Wisconsin is known for its cheese. And so people wear cheese head hats. And they are so genuinely so tacky. Like so, but people love them. And then now other teams have started wearing cheese greater hats. I get it. And so it's like it's like there are no bounds. There are no bounds here in the US. Like, you can wear anything that you want with the team name on it.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

I know. It's I think it's fantastic. I feel like it there's so much camaraderie. I love it. But yeah, here it's just, it's just not a thing. Like, if I wore, so I'm actually a fan of a different team that my husband's never played for. It's just the team I grew up loving, right? Because I played for a black and white team, netball and football as a kid. So then Okay, cute. Yeah, so this is the team I went for, and I've got their Guernseys, I've got a whole team signed Guernsey from them. But if I ever wore that, oh my goodness, I would get so many looks. And I'm like, but every other kid here that has one signature, I have the whole team.

unknown 36:04

The whole team.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

It's so crazy, it's so wild. It is wild, also. I just looked up how much it costs to buy an AFL team because you we're in like the billion.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

We don't get to buy teams. They don't, you're not allowed to buy them. They are AFL owned, they are owned by the AFL. Yeah. So the Giants tried, which is the team my husband used to play for when he first started, and an American tried to buy them and they no. I know. So we like have like strict budgets and allowed to pay over like a certain amount of money within the team and stuff like that because it's owned by the AFL.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So what is I'm looking, like, what does pay look like in the AFL?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Like, oh, like it's obviously still like abhorrent. Yeah, it's like it's still bigger than your average job. But like some players, like rookies, for example, in an in the NFL, what do they sign for minimum 800,000? That's like a rookie that never takes the field, right? Yeah. And then there's our rookie fee is like, I think it's like 89, which for us, yeah, for America, that's like 50,000. Which you cannot live in any city uh comfortably. Yeah, well, obviously that's fine for us here. Like he they can just train and work and obviously try and work their way up. But I think the average wage is like 500. Okay. And then there's like two, maybe three players from each team on a million.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah. And that's like, whoa. But there's no like four-year 60 million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Uh no, there is lots of four-year like 10 million, which is like huge for us, but that's still only like what six million for you guys for four years.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, America. It's just so dramatic.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

I know, but at the same time, I'm like, how great. You could live for like play for three years and you're set up. You buy two houses and you're done. Set up for life.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Yeah, and it does give a lot of the players opportunities to do charity work and donate a lot and be really involved in the community and for their own. Because they can afford to, yeah. Because they can afford to, because they don't have any financial concern.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, completely. And like, I'm not saying that we're hard done by in any sense of the word. Like, it's it's still an incredible opportunity to like literally, if you don't have the means to work as a partner, like just to support your husband in that job, like you absolutely can. Yeah, but then some people obviously like the early starting out and stuff. That there's no way you have to be a two-income household.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah. It's crazy. That is crazy. It's crazy that the AFL owns everything. Like, I can't even imagine the NFL owning everything.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

No, well, they've all got like their owners or their presidents and all of that stuff. Yeah, it's yeah, it's so it is different in that sense completely. Like, we have AFL players that get delisted, which is like their career cart, I guess. I don't know how you would say it in the NFL, but they get delisted from their team and then they go over and they go to college and they get paid more money to be a kicker at college in the US than a professional athlete here.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Like genuinely, like double the amount just to go to school.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Right. Right. Yeah, like NIL deals are so big in American college.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

It's it's literally wild. I'm like, that is fantastic because obviously that's how they get people to go to their schools to then make their schools win, and that's how they get more people going to the school. I get it, but like it's crazy.

Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I want to thank our sponsors over at Cusos. They have so many good flavors. If you haven't heard about Kuso Cuts yet, they are a seasoning and sauces company. I did check and they do ship to Australia. So if you are looking for a new seasoning blend, you can head to CusoCuts.com slash thegame. One thing that I love about Cusos is that they are a creative brand. They're not just some, this is your Italian seasoning and this is your blank seasoning. Everything in their lineup is curated to perfection. So let me just tell you a little bit about the names and some of my favorite seasonings from them. So they have dirt, they have Cajun Explosion, lemon pepper, maple bourbon, cowboy butter, dust, gravel, hot honey. And with names like those, doesn't that just make you want to cook a little bit more? I am going to be moving here shortly, and knowing that I can make food that is flavorful and delicious with really honestly minimal effort is what I need right now. I don't need to be thinking about cooking crazy meals. I just want something healthy and delicious that I know I can whip up quickly. And Kusos helps me do that. So if you want 10% off your order, head to Cusocuts.com slash the game or type in code the game no spaces at checkout. Again, if you are from Australia, they do ship, but for a fee. So just make sure you're prepared for that at checkout. Let's get back into the episode of Kelly. Okay, so Jeremy, your husband, played for Port Adelaide for the last four years. Yeah. And then was delisted in 2025. Did you know that he was getting delisted? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Yeah, it's yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of change up in the like foundation of the club, like the coaches, the coaching staff. They coach left and stuff like that. They had a really bad year. And given that his age, he was an easy one to just let go of, I guess. Because yeah, like he's like I said, three years is the average. So like anything over five, six years is incredible. He played for 12. So like he had a great career. He he was okay. But right, yeah, we knew from about halfway through the year when the coaches were changing over that it was it wasn't gonna happen at that club. And we had conversations with other clubs, but it just wasn't worth it for us. Like we're so set here, we didn't want to move again.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

It's not like the NFL where you're going for like a million dollars minimum. If it was that, absolutely get me there. But like it's just not worth it when it comes down to it. Like, I've got a really established job here. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Okay, so he when did he start playing? Because you guys met at 21.

Delisting, Moves, And Family Choices

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Yeah, so he joined the academy at 16. So he got put into a college essentially, but for high school, like a private school in Sydney, because he's from the country. So like a five-hour drive from where he was from, and did his high school there so that he could train with the coaches that he would then eventually play for. And got drafted at 18. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

And now he's he's 30 in like three weeks, a week, two weeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Oh, happy birthday.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah. And you just had a birthday too. I did, yes. I just turned 30. So he's two two months exactly younger than me.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

That's cute, honestly. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

And you guys have a daughter together, Sophia, who's four. Yes, she's four, and she has about 14 personalities. She's great. Yeah. She might be the youngest ECC to ever happen.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah, go look at Kelly's Instagram and look for her daughter doing dancing with palms.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

It's delicious. Honestly.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Honestly, so like I feel like I I don't even know her.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

And I was like, this is so cute.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Like I don't even, I don't like have any, I'm not like on Instagram or anything like that. And I was like, this is so cute, I can't even handle it.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. And then when the peer leader started commenting, I was like, you have made it, CS, you have made it. They did. Oh dying. Did you tell her? Yeah, of course. I'm like, you have made mommy's dreams come true. Keep going, do more fun stuff, get recognized. Yeah.

unknown 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

You're like, you're gonna be a star.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah. She tells everyone she's gonna be a cheerleader when she grows up. I'm like, great. So we're moving to America. Can't wait. What college are you gonna go to? Can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

If you move to America, I'm gonna send you a merch, like a box of merch. Yes. Right for when you arrive. All the teams. I'll give you uh yeah, something from every team so you can pick which jersey you like the best.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Yeah, she'll go on colors.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's actually have you seen Mary Crippin from NF Elementary?

SPEAKER_02 44:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Okay, so she's a teacher in Miami, Florida. We interviewed her a couple weeks ago, and she has created basically NFL curriculum for her third graders. So on the first day of school, every kid in her class drafts the team, and then they follow the NFL through the season.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

And she builds- It's so fun. And she builds her assignments around it.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yes. Yep. Yeah. And she has like lessons. And we had a game at the beginning of the season where two players spit on each other. And she's like, this is dramatic. But and she like did a lesson about it about who got in trouble and how to treat people and how to react after.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

And like so smart.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yeah. And then she'll talk about like the quarterbacks and how some quarterbacks, like Brock Purdy, was the last we call Mr. Irrelevant, who's the last drafted player in the NFL. And Brock Purdy is like now a top quarterback and has been a quarterback for a very long time. And yeah, she's fabulous. And then all of her kids, the teams will like send them stuff.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

So she's like the hero.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yes. Yeah. And and yeah, like the kids have gotten invited to games, like Baker Mayfield, the quarterback for doing this.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

No. Wait, are you a teacher? Yeah, I'm a teacher by trade. But you're a teacher? Yeah, I haven't taught for a little while. I just relief teach, like temporary teach. I don't know what they call it over there. But we just like substitute. Yeah. So I just like substitute. Well, when my daughter's at school or if she's in care or whatever, if my husband's home, I substitute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Wait, how did I not find this in my research?

SPEAKER_00 45:53

I haven't taught for a really long time. Okay. Okay. That's what I've also researched, like Yeah, I've subbed, but I haven't taught since I was pregnant with my daughter because that was in COVID.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Okay. Yeah. I'll I'll send you, I'll send you Mary's stuff. She's amazing. And we did do an interview with her, so you can like listen to it. She's so fabulous. And she's like doing amazing things for like the NFL and kids and Amazon. Brilliant.

unknown 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Okay. So speaking of stories, I would love to talk a little bit about your personal story. So four years ago, you were diagnosed with stage four cancer.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Right three months after your daughter was born. So can you tell us a little bit about where you were in life and kind of how that diagnosis came up and how it kind of changed where you were?

Meeting Jeremy & Media Pressure

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yeah. So, in terms of footy, which is kind of relevant in this part, we had a trade from Sydney to Adelaide, which is like from his team that he was at until to the team that he finished in, to be closer to family, because obviously we knew I was pregnant, and then I had my little girl. We moved just a few weeks later. She was three weeks old on her first flight back here, home to South Australia, to be closer to my family because obviously I needed that support because I assumed that you know we're going to be pretty high intense with Jeremy's work and he wouldn't be able to help all that much, especially going into pre-season. And then obviously, I also assumed that I'd have like three kids by now. So like I'd need family help all the time. And I'd just always dreamed of my mum being so involved in that part of things. So we moved home to be closer to family, and like thank God we did. Because I think two weeks after we'd moved to Adelaide into our house that we were going to be in while he played, I was showing him all around Adelaide because I actually went to school here. All the like the hills, all the wineries, all the beaches, all these places that I'd grown up knowing and loving. And there's like a bit of a joke here in Australia where that there's nothing to do in South Australia. You don't visit unless you're visiting family sort of thing. Like I don't know what the comparison would be over there. Like I don't know what state that would be, but there's just you just don't go there unless you're visiting family. And I was like, I guess trying to prove that that wasn't the case. And it's not, it's such a beautiful city. Like you do have to drive like 30 minutes out of the out of the city to like get to those places. But like in Sydney where we used to live, which lots of people visit, mind you, because of the opera house and the bridge. Um, 30 minutes is like around the corner because of how much traffic there is. Anyway, so we were doing these drives everywhere, and we had a obviously, well, at the time, about an eight-week old when it first started. An eight-week old in the backseat. So obviously, quite an inconvenience when you're driving long distances. Like she might wake up, she might need to be fed, whatever it may be. And I was more of an inconvenience to him than she was because of the frequency that we were pulling over to petrol stations, to gas stations to use the bathroom because I always felt like I needed to go to the toilet. Like the consistent feeling of needing to go to the toilet was just like wild. I never actually needed to go, which also kind of was annoying, but we were pulling over frequently to use the toilet to the point that four weeks later, so about a month of these road trips later, he was he thought he was being funny. He made a joke. I didn't find it all that funny at the time. It's hilarious now and also quite eye-opening in a way that like someone else had to bring it to my attention because as females, we do not prioritize ourselves or our health anywhere near enough. He made a joke about needing a portal, which is like a toilet on a trailer, for me to sit on while we drove to each of the I don't know, places that we were going and that we got there in the time that the nav men said that we would, because he thought that was hilarious. Anyway, wasn't funny at the time.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Yeah, you're like, this is embarrassing. Like I'm already miserable and now you're making fun of me.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

And like I'm in pain, I'm postpartum. Like I've never experienced this before, I've got nothing to compare it to. Like, postpartum sucked for me. Loved that little girl more than anything. Actually loved breastfeeding, which most people hate. Like I was having the time of my life in that, in the sense of that, but like everything inside, I was like, my insides are broken. And then yeah, I didn't talk to him for a couple of days after that. Like I was really quite pissed. But I did book in with a GP, and it was the first time in seven years. So I'd been seeing GPs and naturopaths for seven years, but it was the first time in seven years that someone took me seriously and booked me for a colonoscopy. Two days later, I had a colonoscopy, and within a week of that, I was having a stoma fit. That's how fast it moved. So I was having my bowels stitched to my stomach as a bypass because I was about to get sepsis because I was having like full blockages. Wow. Yeah, it moved so quickly. Literally from the 18th of November to the 27th.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

You're like, I thought you were just gonna give me a laxative or Advil or tell me that I needed to tell me that I needed to like change my diet, like FODMAP or whatever it may have been. But yeah, yeah, it was crazy. So you are getting the bypass done. We make it through that. And then what is the steps moving forward from there? Are you just at this point all the way in, going back to the doctor often?

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah. So I basically lived at the hospital for close to eight months, which obviously with a three-month-old, like I missed her first year of life essentially. Like, I'm very grateful that my mom kind of stood in and was her mum for those eight months. Like, she left her job, she moved over here, she moved in, and she was it was fantastic. Like, couldn't do enough for her to thank her in that sense. But now they're also like best friends. So, like, I think that she loves that that's happened in that in a sense. Like, genuinely, like joint at the hip, which is so cute. But yeah, so I had the colonoscopy, was told that that's what cancer looked like the next day. I saw a surgeon, like I said, a week later, I was having my first surgery, and then on my 26th birthday, I had my first dose of chemotherapy and radiotherapy, which was like happy birthday, but also they gave me a cake. So I was like, Oh, that's so nice. I never got a cake again.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Um your expectations were so high at that point. You're like, this place is great.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

And then you're like, Where's the candy? Where's the cake? I was like, oh, so I get cake for the first day, but never other no other birthdays. No, but I I ended up having a great surgeon. He had he had really good bedside manner and knew kind of the person that I was really quickly, which thank God, because honestly, he didn't give me a prognosis, which is I guess like the timeline of what he expected or statistics or whatever it may have been. He gave me my diagnosis, obviously, being stage four colorectal cancer, but never the prognosis because he knew that I was a really competitive person. So if he'd given me that, I would have been competitive to live to that, essentially. And that's obviously no good for anyone because you know it's been three years since I was supposed to die. So yeah, if he'd given me that, I probably would have.

Diagnosis: From Symptoms To Stage Four

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah. Wow, that's I feel like that's so special that you also didn't feel the need to push for it. I didn't know it was a thing. Okay, honestly, sometimes ignorance is bliss, though, because completely if you would have maybe asked, right? And then you have this day in your mind. Yeah, versus just like, okay, this is how we're gonna treat it. And like everybody knows what stage four means. Yeah, there's no stage five. Yeah, yeah. And so what a like a blessing in disguise that you didn't have a date to kind of completely.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah, I'm like genuinely so like so lucky that he understood me so quickly. He also had a like an assistant nurse who was an oncology nurse and now moved into being his assistant that was really good at explaining everything to me. Like, unfortunately for her, she I she gave me her phone number. So we're still like, if ever ever I have a problem, like just yesterday, I sent her a photo. I'm like, is this normal? Like, I just have that with the relationship with her now, which is so nice. Like she was at my 30th birthday, like she genuinely saved my life, like essentially. Right. But yeah, like the team that he has around him, I was just so lucky.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

It makes such a difference to have doctors who are genuinely invested in who you are, like interpersonally, and not just what you have going on. It's just not a number, right? In the US, we have a huge problem with that. Oh and like I had a doctor a couple of years ago, and and it was he was a naturopath, and I'd gone in because I'd been having recurring symptoms and no doctor could help me. And he was gonna change something in my diet. But before he did that, he asked me if I had ever had an eating disorder. And I I remember walking out, I made an Instagram story about it, and I was like, even something that small, I was like, that I felt so seen. And I was like, actually, yes, I did used to have an eating disorder. Thank you for asking. And then I felt so much safer overall to like even move forward with him. And so I think like it's just a testament to your doctor and probably the hospital and practice that you were at. In Australia, do you do you guys have the same kind of issue with us where you're just a number? And this seems to be like a relatively special kind of doctor.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Yeah, so I had a pretty shitty experience with my first oncologist, actually. I was genuinely a number, like I had a number next to my name. And like I got told basically after a year of treatment that, you know, it wasn't getting any better if palliative care was my only option, which if you know what palliative care is, it means you know, take morphine and get comfortable. But I was like, I have not even one year old. Like that is hilarious, essentially. And like I I understood the comments in terms of like I saw the scans, like I knew how bad they were, but also like I knew I had an option to just get another opinion. And like three years later, I'm still here kicking with that same, like the next oncologist. So like I did have a bad experience in terms of that, but at the same time, being a private health patient, I feel like is a blessing, like it's an expense. But like in my case, it's the best expense I've ever had. Like the investment that I made in my health and that my parents made as well, because like I was already on healthcare prior to this, it's like it's a blessing because I know that in the public system, it's a lot harder to be seen, it's a lot harder to have a bed available. Like they're they're busy. And it if you're not life or death, essentially you're just kicked to the curb and like you don't know your life or death until you get the diagnosis. But getting that diagnosis is so hard.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Right. And exhausting to advocate for yourself over and over and over. You know, like you mentioned women, we put it aside, especially parents, especially moms. Like you have so much other things and another person to worry about that you're not thinking, like, I need to go get this checked. And then sometimes you do, and they're like, you're fine.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Yeah. And I had seven years of being told you're too young, you're too fit, you're too healthy. Like I was a marathon runner. I genuinely had, and I've got the words carved into my brain. I'm not sure that they would be carved in there had I not been diagnosed, but given this the situation, like I can remember so clearly. I had a about test, like a stool test, and I took it back. I could see physical blood, and it's usually microscopic. And he genuinely looked in the eye and said, You're too young, fit, and healthy. He's like, You probably wiped too hard. I was like, cool. Anyway, then COVID happened. So like I had a colonoscopy booked, it was postponed indefinitely. And then, yeah, two years later I got diagnosed and it was the worst stage. Wow. Yeah, but I had seven years of that back to back to back, like pushed away, you probably like out of breath, you probably got COVID, like stomach aches, you put you pregnant. Like, there were so many things. I was like, I know, but this can't be normal. Like, I no friends have ever told me that it hurts this bad.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Yeah, you're like, I know a lot of women who have been pregnant. I'm pretty sure this is not okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

I'm like, I don't remember bleeding being one of the like symptoms of pregnancy, but sure. Especially in your poop, like yeah in my toilet, I know, but like on the toilet paper. So it was in the toilet. I'm like, I could be bleeding, I could be miscarrying. I don't know. Like, but no idea. I just go get a scan, baby's healthy. Okay, no worries. It didn't happen for another couple weeks, but yeah, it was it was wild.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Right. Oh my goodness. Wow. Well, I'm so glad that you found, yeah, like what a blessing to have found an oncologist and to be, you know, yeah, kicking now and and doing so well. And you've really taken your experience, this really hard and sad situation and kind of 180 it for, you know, the better.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, I've given it purpose for sure. I feel like if I'm gonna have this horrible thing like that I have to deal with regardless, like I might as well give it purpose and like kind of hope that no one else has to walk in my shoes. And if they do, at least like obviously it's a scary place to be, and like me talking about it is kind of fear-mongering in a way, but at the same time, like if something were to happen, if you were to get a diagnosis, at least you know that like I'm traveling to America to go to a football game, like I'm talking on podcasts, like I'm still doing so much life with the worst diagnosis that you can get, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Right, right. Yeah, so you have written that aging is a privilege. And I saw your post about your 30th birthday and how you thought you would feel. And how are you feeling at 30, overcoming everything that you have overcome? And yeah, like being in your 30s now and like managing, you know, your current health status.

Eight Months In Hospital And Care Team

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah, so I got ID'd the other day, so I feel like I'm still 17, which is great. Um, because obviously in Australia it's 18 to be illegal to drink, not 21. So that means that I'm a teenager, so I'm a teen mum. No, I genuinely thought that you know hitting 30 was like this big time shift. And I always get told that 30s are better than 20s, and I think that that's because that's normally when people start families. But I'd already done that part of life, like I'd already done the starting of the family, and obviously going through all of the grief of not being able to grow the family and all of that. So now I feel like my 30s have been completely focused on me, which is so nice because you know, obviously in my teen years, like I was very able to be very selfish with my time and what I was doing. And now that my daughter's like kindy and like soon to be school, like I've got so much more time in my day to like do things that I have am passionate for and like sign up for things that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to. Like, I also don't have these 12 weeks that I'm living to because I I genuinely did used to live like scan to scan, and that's how I kind of like got through my year. And like, don't get me wrong, I still have 12 weekly scans, but I'm no longer like afraid of what that scan's going to tell me because like I kind of already know within myself if something's wrong. I get that seen through really quickly, if that makes sense. So I feel like now I'm living like year by year rather than 12 weekly blocks, and that's such a blessing. Like, that's something that we've always taken for granted. And like I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, like it's a good thing that we're able to like do those five-year plans. Like, I wouldn't have even thought that that to be possible three years ago. But now I'm like, yeah, planning at least a year and a half in advance, which is so nice to be able to do. And like, you know, I've already got plans for March, which otherwise wouldn't have been a thing. And like, yeah, I don't know. I'm definitely being a little bit more selfish with my time, like also the boundaries that I put in place, like in terms of not saying yes to everything, can like no is actually a really powerful word. And yeah, I don't know. Like, I've I feel like it's just I'm doing me, which is so much fun. And like I feel like it's rubbing off in terms of like I'm a better mom, a better wife, better friend. And yeah, it's it's been good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Yeah. I I love that you're seeing the benefit of putting yourself first in your other relationships because we hear on social media or wherever that people say, like, you have to put your gas mask on first. Like, if you take care of yourself, it really will help people around you. But it actually does because the happier that you are, the better that you can show up for everyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

And I also understand, like, especially being a mum, like that's not always a thought that's gonna be provoked. Like, it's always gonna be that I'm going to look after my child first, and that's something that I'm always going to have tendencies to do. Like, obviously, her health is always gonna be my priority. Right. But now that like I can kind of see how well she's doing, and also knowing that there's other people that care for her, and it doesn't always have to be mean I am able to like go to an appointment without having to worry about her. Like, someone will look after her for that hour, it's fine, sort of thing. Like now that I'm seeing that I don't have to do everything, it's it's fantastic. And like I know that looking after yourself is it it does help you pour into other cups, but also like it's not realistic to assume that everyone's going to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

I it's interesting when you say you've kind of been able to let go of like I can go to disappointment and like somebody's gonna take care of like there are people who take care of my kids. Yeah. I have a lot of friends who struggle to let go of the reins of control with their kids because they're the mom. And I don't know what it feels like to be a mom, but I can imagine I have a lot of friends who are moms who have like a lot of mom guilt and things like that. Do you have any advice for how to kind of let go of those reins of control or how to have the conversation around it with people in your family?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yeah. So I've actually been going through the motions with this, especially over the last six to 12 months. I feel like we are allowed to want control over like how we want our life to look. That's absolutely fine. But at the same time, like in terms of our health, if we're not taking our first symptom seriously, then we're taking away a hell of a lot more time, you know, three years down the track from the family that we were trying to look after for that one hour for the appointment that we couldn't go to. If we put it into perspective that if we don't do anything about it now, we're gonna have a like a lot more time spent on that issue later. But also if we don't take it seriously now, we can't be shocked when something comes later. I feel like it's really important for us, especially as women, especially as people that have menstrual cycles, because they are something that we're so quick to use as an excuse for whatever's going on with ourselves. I feel like if we're not taking that first thing that isn't normal, and we know our normal, we're women. We we understand we quite literally pride ourselves on knowing our bodies, right? If we if we're not taking the thing seriously, then we're doing ourselves a dis disservice, but not only ourselves, we're doing our family a disservice. Like if I had been, I took myself really seriously, don't get me wrong, I definitely looked after myself, went to doctors, I advocated, I did all the things right. I was just really unlucky with the people I saw. But if we're not doing that, if we're not taking that one hour for ourselves, then we're taking a hell of a lot more time away down the track. If I got seen seven years ago, I might not have had my daughter at the time that I did. But once I did have her, I would have been, you know, able to be a mum for that whole first year. Like it's yeah, I use myself as an like as an example, but at the same time, like I don't tell people to advocate for themselves because I didn't, because I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Yeah, it's not like you're looking back and saying, I wish that I would have advocated for myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Takes a lot of tenacity and perseverance in that situation to like keep going back and keep trying to figure it out because that can be an exhausting in itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

Completely. And like being told that you're young, fit, and healthy, or being dismissed countless times when you know something's not right, get a second opinion. Like it's an expense. I get that healthcare is an expense, but like a$50 appointment is cheaper than like the rest of your life, sort of thing. So that's kind of the way to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Trust me. Once you want to diagnose, it's a hell of a lot more expensive. You're like that$50 copay sounds pretty nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

Genuinely. Okay. How have you navigated talking to Sophia about your diagnosis? And about the situation that you and your family are in, because obviously it's very different. She sees her mom go to chemo, and a lot of kids at school don't see their parents doing that. So, how has it been navigating being a parent and having to have these conversations with your daughter at such a young age?

System Gaps, Second Opinions, Persistence

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Yeah, so obviously we talked to her very age appropriately. Like she knows that mommy's sick, but she doesn't understand what cancer is. Like someone has actually explained cancer to her before, like an eight-year-old. So, like obviously, someone that's on YouTube and sees that sort of thing and she had nightmares for three days because she didn't want to miss her mommy. But we obviously talked her off that cliff and like made her understand that mummy's sick, but mommy's got maintenance medication, which she knows is chemo. She thinks that I have chemo. She doesn't think that I have cancer, she thinks that I have chemo, which is fantastic. Be naive as long as you possibly can be. But like we also talk about like when mommy has a sick day. If I have a band-aid on my port, so then my port is like port a cath that goes straight into my heart, it's like my vein that my veins are just shot. So if I have a band-aid on that, mommy's not well. So mummy needs a little bit more space. So she looks when she gets home from Kindy, she'll look to see if I've got a band-aid before she annoys me, sort of thing. She, yeah, she's really, really resilient. Like she's quite switched on for her age. She unlike she comes to chemotherapy. She thinks that mummy gets a needle in their special button and then we go on with our day, which we genuinely do. She was too young to see like me being really sick the first couple of years of chemo, like I lost my hair and I was I was really unwell. She didn't understand that because I wore a wig so that I looked like myself, so that she didn't have to be like, oh my god, because like my husband shaves his beer and she's like, oh, that's not my dad. So like obviously losing my hair, she'd be like, Oh, what the hell? So we definitely protected her a little bit early on, but she also like she could read my energy. She would like bring her babies in and like pretend to be a mum in front of me when I was like literally fast asleep in bed, like or like one eye open, like just so cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

She tried so hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Yeah. And like there's sometimes I could hear her crying. I was like, somebody go get her. I can't get up. But like that was like she was so little, she doesn't remember that part of her life. She just remembers that you know, doctors and hospitals are safe places that make mummies feel better. To the point that a friend had her daughter was getting like tonsils removed, so like a very minor, you know, it's it's still a surgery, though. They get put under, it's it's a scary thing to put your child through, right? No one wants to do that. But she was like, oh, it's okay. They go to sleep and then the doctors make them better, and then you get a sandwich when you wake up and you come home and you have a sleep and you're all better. Like that's my that was my three-year-old at the time to my adult friend. And and I were like, Yeah, it'll be it'll be okay. Thank you. Gonna get a sandwich and go to sleep, it's gonna be all better. Yeah, the doctors are so nice. They give you sandwiches, they give you icy poles, they've got apple juice. She's like, What do you mean? Why are you scared?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

She's like, it's not a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

She's like, There's plenty of things like monsters under the bed to be afraid of. Hospital, not spots.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

No spiders, so clean.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Yeah. I can't even imagine if we as like societies could begin to look at hospitals again as places of healing and how many people would heal faster. And you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

It's nobody's fault. Even like the in terms of like people think that I'm lying about having cancer because of the way that I look. Obviously, there are have been some con artists that have like put that in place, but there's like this image of health or image of cancer in particular that the movies portray. You know, people go, they get hooked up, they lose their hair, they lose their sense of self, they lose their identity, they lose, you know, a year of their life, and then they either get better or they die. That's just what we've been taught. So when you see people getting around like myself with you know a full head of hair, like, yes, I've lost it, but this is all mine now. So like I'm quite proud of it. Um, you know, like my skin isn't pale like it was at one stage, but it's not anymore. Like I've got life in my face. I do all of the things. Like I am quite a busy person considering like my health status, I guess. But when people see that, they're like, well, that can't possibly like she must be in remission. She either has never had it or like she was dramatic at the time that you know she would complain about it, or like all of these things. It's what we've been taught in movies, it's what we've been taught in society, you know. Obviously, technology and like modern medicine has become a lot better. But all we know to be true is that you lose your hair, you lose yourself, and you die, or you get better. And that's just all we've been taught. So, like, as a society, seeing someone like myself is like there's no way.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Right. What would you say to someone who kind of has that in their head? Like, how is there a way that you'd like to reframe it for them or anything that you would like to like make sure gets across?

Aging As A Privilege And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Well, honestly, I think that if someone has that thought process, then obviously they've never been touched by it. They've never seen someone they love go through it. Because, you know, a lot of people now do manage it quite well, especially like treatment plans, they're not they're not aimed to absolutely annihilate you anymore, like unless it's an aggressive procedure, which I did do for a you know, solid eight months because I wanted it go on, um, unless it's an aggressive treatment plan. Like people are able to manage and have a quality of life. So, like, yeah, if they're saying things like that, they've never experienced it for themselves, they've never had someone that they love go through it because they've never had to like be that like exposed to it personally, which is great. I'm happy for you, sort of thing. Like your life is brilliant, but like for the people that have this image of health, I I also like I said, I don't want it to them to feel like it's their fault, but like there's so many places of education now, especially online social media. Like I know so many people that talk about their health. Like someone in America, for example, I think she's in New York, Sydney, I can't remember her last name. She's really quite young and she looks absolutely beautiful. But obviously on her treatment days, she looks like us because that's what we look like. It's it's just how we feel, like, right? But the way that she's been able to speak about it and still be this person, still go for runs and stuff. I feel like people online are really trying to direct the narrative in a way that like there is no image of health. Like, I look like I could still run marathons, I could still do all these things. I can do most things, but have half a lung. Like it's an invisible disability in a sense. And there's so many people living with disabilities invisibly that like just be kind, don't be like be unassuming. Like it's yeah, I don't know, it's really hard, but we are trying. And I feel like there's a few of us online that are trying really hard to shift the narrative into like there is no one image. There, there's so many people living with different things, terminal illnesses as well, or like lifelong chronic illnesses, that it doesn't have to be our whole personality, but we like people to know that we do have invisible disability to be, yeah. I don't know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:57

Yeah. Invisible disability is there's so many different types of them that you can have. And I think just being kind and remembering that you just never know what people are going through. Genuinely. And I think we think about that and we're like, oh, maybe they're having a bad day, or maybe they got dumped. You know, we're not like we don't always consider that like they could be really going through something.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

And like, don't get me wrong, like a breakup is still an absolute devastation. Like I get it. But also in a week's time, you're gonna be okay. Like, there's people living with like these chronic, chronic illnesses, even like chronic fatigue. Like some people that have chronic fatigue, oh my goodness, I take my hat off of them getting out of the house. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:39

Yeah. So you have taken your story and put it into a book. Tell me about writing the book. There must be more. And then tagline is finding purpose in the face of the unimaginable. So walk me through writing the book, what people can expect from it, and how it felt kind of sharing your journey in such an intimate way.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

Yeah, so the book came about as like kind of a next step, not in terms of sharing my story, but like I had family members, even my mom and my best friends that just didn't know anything about what I was really going through. So I kind of protected the people that loved me most because I didn't want to put them through any more trauma, which a lot of patients will tell you the same thing. We're really good at like protecting the piece so that we're treated as like a friend or a family member or a daughter, whatever it is, rather than someone that's sick, especially in those early days. And like the book came as like my way is okay, I need to tell people so that they can understand what I'm really going through. And if I don't write the book, I'm never gonna tell anyone because like it's so much easier not to. Like, honestly, writing the book, most cathartic process ever, was so beautiful. I had a uh wordsmith that really helped me through it, like made it make sense, put it all in line, sort of thing. But then the hard part was telling the people that I knew were gonna read it that had no idea what was in it. So, like my best friends, my mum, there was so much within that book that only my husband knew essentially, and like maybe a handful of people. And yeah, it it was it was necessary, especially for people that wanted to know more, but I couldn't actually answer individually, people that were going through a similar experience, people that had their parents or their friends going through a similar experience that had so many questions, but the only way that I could like get them out was to write them in a long form. And I wasn't gonna obviously send a documentation to everyone's email, like this is how it felt, this is what I'm going through, this is what you should do. So here, have a book. Yeah, and like I've lived so many lives. Like I wrote that book when I was 28. So like I've lived so many lives in 28 years that you know, most people write a memoir at 60, 65, and like they still don't have enough to fill out this book. And like, usually it's someone that's been in the limelight for like 60 to 70 years of just like all this chaos. But like I had enough in four years that I could write about, let alone like the stuff that had happened previously to that as well. Like, there's just so much that I had to talk about, and like infertility was one of the things that like I was really struggling with sharing with friends. Like, I'm in a you know, stage of life that all of my friends were in this fertile having babies, you know, time of life. And it was really hard for me when I'd get like a photo of a pregnancy stick, like pregnancy test, like positive, and I'd be like, cool. I just had another failed transfer with my surrogate, but nobody knows because I was choosing not to tell anyone. So like they didn't know what they were doing to me, but at the same time, I was like an absolute arsehole sometimes. I'd be like, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

So happy you're pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Like it was, I was always so happy for them, but at the same time, like obviously I was suffering so much at home, and like my mental health was really it was the first time my mental health had ever taken a toll. And considering what I'd been through, obviously that's like a pretty heightened response considering like I literally have sagebo cancer, but the worst part of it was the infertility and not being able to, you know, grow my family. So, like, yeah, there was just so much in there that needed to be spoken, but I just didn't know how to say it without it being long form.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

Yeah, it's just you having to prep your family and friends. That must have been a very interesting conversation because you're like, I didn't tell you this, not because I don't love you and not because I don't trust you. Yeah, but because I didn't want to do it. I didn't know how to explain it, yeah. Yeah, like I didn't have the words for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

Yeah, like I I would drop my book to people and I'd be like, read chapter three, and then I'd run out the door. And I'd be like, okay. And then message me out, and they're like, oh my god, it makes so much sense. I'm like, okay, good. Yeah. I'm like, thank god. And like one reply was like, Why didn't you tell me? I'd be like, I don't have a reason. It's like I just couldn't. You're like, I you're like, I had a lot going on, okay? Yeah. Yeah, it was it was it was tough, but it was, yeah, it was beautiful. Like the fact that I could have that was probably like five to six people that had no idea. And like the fact that they were able to just treat me like me, like brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

Right, because then you don't have to constantly be talking about it. You can just be their friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

Yeah. No message like, how are you going this week? Like, I didn't need that because yeah, I was acting like me with them, which was really cool.

Talking To Kids About Illness

SPEAKER_01 1:18:26

Do you when I think about someone who has cancer or a terminal illness? A lot of times you hear people say, when they see you, I'm so sorry, or how are you doing? What do you wish people would ask or not ask in your situation? I know everybody's a little bit different, but what would you have loved, especially like in your deepest moments, for people to have asked or not asked?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:55

Yeah, so I this is actually a really good question, especially for someone, if someone's listening that's got like something going on that they've like got a friend that's been diagnosed or whatever it may be. I have a strong opinion on not asking anything if you can't take on what the answer's going to be. Like, so for example, I've had friends be like, Oh, how are you? Like, how was this week? And I'd be like, Oh, it was so shit. I thought I wasn't gonna wake up. And they'll be like, I'm like, well, why did you ask? If you can't take that on, you know what I'm going through, right? You know, like you know what the reality is. So if you can't take on like the hard parts, don't ask because there's nothing worse than then feeling uncomfortable, like, oh, this person couldn't take that on. Like, why did I share that? Then you like spiral and then you don't share the next time when you really needed to share. And yeah, it's it's it's hard. Like it's I do have no filter, so like confronting stuff does just come out of my mouth. And like some people be like, Kelly, shut up. I'm like, sorry, I forgot, like, wrong crowd, wrong place. But like for some people, like not being heard when they're asked the question is like, well, now I'm gonna just go into my ball and not speak ever again. So that's probably one piece of advice that I have a really strong opinion on. And like obviously asking them, like you would ask any other person, like, oh, how's your weekend? Like, that's okay. Because now you've opened up the floor for like, I'm gonna share, share with you what I feel comfortable sharing, not like, oh, how was like how do you feel this week? Well, you don't want to know. Unless you actually want to know, you don't want to know. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

Yeah. That's really good advice, I think, for anyone. Also, like if you're talking to your good friend and you ask them how they are and like you don't have space, then like ask a different question. Yeah. Like asking, frame it in a different way. How's the weather? Have you been to the beach recently?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:40

Like anything else. Yeah. If you've got enough on your plate, don't add more if you can't take it on.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:46

Right. Yeah. We, I think, you know, especially with girlfriends, like we hold space for as many people as we as we can. And we love when our friends hold space for us, but knowing when you have the capacity to hold space for someone who's struggling is a tool that that's probably underused. Okay, my last question for you. You mentioned that your husband was the only one who knew what was going on. How has this whole journey impacted your relationship? How has he been through it? Because being a partner of someone who's going through this is a whole roller coaster on its own. And he ended his career in the AFL simultaneously to obviously what you're going through now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

Yeah. So originally his career was actually the best outlet ever. Like he had his two best career years in the first two years of my diagnosis, which is was so shocking for so many people, but it was genuinely an outlet and it was just our normal and it gave me something to look forward to going to each weekend. And him performing meant that we were happy at home, essentially, which was brilliant. Like, we didn't bring our problems home. We like, you don't bring your work home, I didn't bring hospital home. Like home was our safe space. Like we just acted like normal. Obviously, I had days where I couldn't get out of bed, but so does everyone. Yeah, in terms of like the part where he really was the only person that knew what I was going through most of the time. It like obviously it broke us, it like it built us up. It had every emotion you could think of in terms of a relationship, especially. I mean, we were already, you know, three months postpartum. The first two years of having a child is apparently like the most tiptoe two years you'll ever experience with a in a marriage. So we already had the stress of, oh, our parenting styles might not line up. But now I kind of had to like forego all of that control and whatever parenting style happened was what was gonna happen. Like it just we didn't get to have that conversation early. We didn't have that until, you know, a year after my diagnosis. And then there was more things that we had to work out. So it was just like an ever-evolving conversation of how we wanted to be as people, how we wanted to be as parents, how we wanted to be as partners. Like it was just so wild. But we learned very quickly that conversations and communication were so imperative to having a healthy relationship. We'd always been great communicators, but we'd never had issues. So obviously, it's a lot easier to communicate when it's not a confrontation, right? And he's not one for confrontation, he'll run away. Big, tall, friendly giant, right? So yeah, having like conversations that were quite deep essentially for a lot of the last four and a half years were hard to navigate, but we've gotten really good at being like, well, I'm not gonna just leave that. That annoyed me. This happened, let's move on. It was one of those situations that if we let it stew, oh, it was just an abruption. So it just wasn't worth it. But I feel like he's found his own outlets, he's never brought the stress of my health home, which has been so nice. The only conversations and stuff we've ever had to have were ones as a team, which was really cool. He's also incredibly media trained, so maybe he was talking to me as if I was like holding a microphone twist. I don't know, but I'm gonna use it to my benefit.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:07

Yeah, he's like, Don't worry, I got this. And you're like, I don't know where you got that from, but I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

We can do this together. It's not a you and I, it's an us. I'm like, sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

You're like, that's exactly what I needed. Did you say thank you? And I know you mean it, so let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:22

Oh my goodness.

The Mythical “Look” Of Cancer

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

Wow. Well, thank you so much for thanks for having me, honestly. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for teaching us about the AFL. There will be, how far away is the NFL game that's going on this year? How far is it from you?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Oh, whereas it's in Melbourne, so it's like an eight-hour drive, 45-minute flight. Yeah. Are you gonna do you think you're gonna go? If I can get tickets to it, yeah. It's already crazy fans around it, yeah. Okay, I need to make sure I I need the LA ramps to to reach out. Thank you. Yeah. If you're listening, I understand. Slide my message. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they flew me all the way to Dallas, surely. All you have to do is email them.

unknown 1:25:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:11

You can have a ticket tomorrow, I'm sure. Well, hopefully. I'll try my husband this time.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

Yeah, yeah. And your daughter.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:19

So cute. Oh my gosh. Hopefully, I'll be there as well. I'll let you know. Um tell people where they can find you, where they can find your book, where they can find your symptom tracker.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

Yeah, so obviously, this is a very predominantly American market on this podcast. So Amazon is probably your best bet. It actually has been restocking lately because it was sold out for a long time, which is great for me, but not great for everyone else. Yeah, so Amazon for the book on socials. I'm just Kelly Finlayson underscore on everything. Yeah. I think we'll leave them in the show notes, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Yeah, well, yeah, we'll leave it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:52

Because my name is quite tricky to spell.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:55

Yeah, yeah. So you can spell it. It'll be linked. You can just click the button.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:59

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:59

Even better.

unknown 1:26:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to another episode of the game. If there is a guest you would love for me to interview or have on the show, please make sure to DM me on Instagram at the game the podcast or at Hey Victoria Hunderson. If you want to read our newsletter or join our all girl Substack chat, you can go to thegame the podcast.substack.com. Thank you again to Kelly for coming on, sharing your story, sharing your advice, and inspiring us all. I know that I had a double check on myself of how long has it been since I've gotten things checked? Am I being as conscious as I could be and taking care of myself in the way that I need to the most? So thank you again, Kelly, for coming on to the game. We'll have some more great interviews coming up for you guys soon. Love you bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

You a body, baby. You gotta honor on a small in your face.

unknown 1:27:05

You gotta