The Open Queue
A podcast where we talk about entertainment, pop cultural and the daily life of navigating the entertainment industry as a creative.
The Open Queue
The Culture-Makers: From Sinners to Storytelling Success
Ready to explore what happens when creativity meets commerce in the entertainment industry? Join hosts Shaka Omari and Charles Malone as they kick off their new podcast journey with authentic conversations about navigating the ups and downs of Hollywood.
Drawing from their decade of experience as industry professionals, the duo examines what keeps creatives going when success seems distant. They share a powerful perspective on maintaining passion for art while facing industry pressures: "Sometimes we put too much pressure on succeeding that we lose some of the love for the journey and the art." This tension between artistic fulfillment and commercial expectations becomes a recurring theme throughout their conversation.
The hosts deliver a captivating analysis of Ryan Coogler's "Sinners," unpacking its rich cultural significance, religious themes, and artistic choices. Their discussion reveals the film's deeper layers, from its exploration of cultural appropriation to its representation of the seven deadly sins. As they break down how the blues music in the film connects generations, they demonstrate how authentic storytelling transcends cultural boundaries by tapping into universal human experiences.
Alongside their film analysis, Shaka and Charles tackle the elephant in the entertainment room: artificial intelligence. Rather than falling into doom-and-gloom predictions, they offer a nuanced take on AI as a creative tool that might actually democratize storytelling for those without traditional industry access. Their perspective cuts through the fear with practical insight: "High productivity plus taste equals survival."
Whether you're a creative professional, an entertainment enthusiast, or simply curious about the forces shaping today's media landscape, subscribe now to join this thought-provoking journey through the intersection of art, business, and cultural identity.
Welcome to the Open Queue, a podcast where we talk about entertainment, pop culture and the daily life of navigating the entertainment industry. As a creative, I'm your host, Shaka Omari, and I'm joined by my business partner, Charles Malone. We'll sometimes have other creative guests on to tell us about their journey in the industry, dealing with their ups and downs, struggles and successes. We'll also touch on current changes to the business of television and film, as well as queue up what we're watching, listening to or a piece of art we've been inspired by. The music you're listening to is the Smokestack Twins from the movie Sinners, composed by Ludwig Göransson. And now let's get queued up, all right? Well, this is, uh, our fir st podcast and uh welcome I'm Shaka Omari and I'm here with, I think, we already did this, charles charles, charles malone, hey you know it's the first one, just want to make sure people know what's going on.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, um. So, yeah, you know this is our podcast. Uh, both of us are in the industry. We have started our own production company. Just to give you a little background on us and, um, yeah, we've been going through this for a couple of years now. Right, like working in this industry I think, what is it like? 10 years maybe?
Charles Malone:Close to say it's almost the 10 year mark when you've made it, whatever making it is nowadays?
Shaka Omari:Yeah, that is a question what is success in this industry? So we decided we'd get together and just talk about our journey and pick people's brains, because you know, I think everyone knows the industry is kind of contracting a bit and there's lots of stuff with AI. But I think we should first start off with what are you watching?
Charles Malone:Yeah, before I get into watching it, I just want to say this is actually a Turing Test podcast.
Shaka Omari:Are we AI or are we real? That's a good, okay. So see, that's going to lead me to a show that you had me watch recently, pantheon, which I thought was really interesting, and I feel like we could do a whole podcast on that. We should probably do that next time, because it has to deal with what is reality, what is AI? And I think we've seen with this Google what is it Vero that just came out. Some of that stuff looks incredibly real, like I don't know if we're cooked or not.
Charles Malone:Uh, I don't know. I still think there's a place for human creation. Like ai is not going to completely disrupt everything. Um, you know, I knew a young kid that started a vinyl production company with his brother and I think going into it they were just doing it off their passion for like vinyl and records. I mean, they actually flew to italy and, like, I guess, did this internship under this like vinyl maker and learned how to make all these funky vinyls.
Charles Malone:I don't think they got into it thinking like man, we're gonna become millionaires, and they were just doing it off of the passion for it. They knew that it was a, it was like an old piece of technology or a way to like listen to music and it was just a love of doing it. And they eventually did do well and sold their, their company. But originally they're never expecting to like make money off of this. They did it for the love of it and and I think sometimes as creatives we put too much pressure on succeeding or like making money or becoming financially successful that we kind of like lose some of the love for the journey and the art.
Shaka Omari:I think I'd have to agree with that, because recently I've been kind of on this journey of watching some of the stuff that's come out this year and you know, going from Sinners to Thunderbolts to Andor, which you should watch. I know you watched the first season of Andor. You've got to watch the second season. There's a lot of things in those projects, those works of art, where it's more than just entertainment. I feel like it's something that the creatives have to say and I think it's resonating with the audiences because it's deeper than just hey, this is just fun, this is special effects and this is how we can make back our money and our budget. And I'm wondering if that's like what's been going on with the industry lately is to your point. I mean, do you feel like the industry has leaned a little bit more towards making the business side versus the creative artist side?
Charles Malone:um, like the, the entertainment business, I would say the. The essence of it is in the, the latter of the name. It's. I think it's always been a business, um, and it's been built off of the backs of creatives, but it it definitely seems like it was always a business first, because, like whoever's funding and financing these projects, they do want to return on that investment. Um, I think it's definitely got more risk adverse. So there is a lack of creativity to try to focus on making as much money as possible, which is why we're seeing so many I'm going to sigh here remakes and reboots and sequels and prequels, and every time we see something and I know we're going to talk about this but original, like centers like, oh man, this is the most profitable original thing to come out since what? 2019? Or the pandemic, and you're like, yeah, people are tired of seeing the same stuff. Like if I have to play another version of Final Fantasy VII or if they make a goddamn on.
Shaka Omari:Final Fantasy VII animation or movie.
Charles Malone:I'm just like when are you just going to let Cloud die?
Shaka Omari:Hold up, hold up. Okay, as a fan of Final Fantasy VII, all right, it's dope. To be fair, though, I haven't actually gone all the way through the second one, because I don't want to call it fatigue, but there's just so much to do and I don't have enough time to dedicate towards it. But some things I think are worth like continuing on.
Charles Malone:I think that it's great to expand these worlds. Expand these worlds um, and you know, you love the characters but more than anything, most of the time, you fall in love with, like the story and the world itself, and give us a different piece of this world. You know, I I'm so tired of the skywalker storyline.
Charles Malone:Fair, I'll give you that and the best movie to come out of star wars in a long time was rogue one and had nothing to really do besides vader showing up for one badass scene. That had nothing to do with the film really which is why you need to watch andor.
Shaka Omari:I'm just gonna drop that again, I know? Um well, it's funny that you speak about that because, like like you said, we're gonna talk about sinners there. I saw an article recently in which they were saying that there may be a sinner sequel yeah, but I mean spoiler alert if you didn't see the movie.
Charles Malone:any credit scene, like, I feel like they're kind of Right Hinting at that, yeah, setting it up, which I'm like would or would I think they'd have to bring back the Native Americans More. So they don't have to, but I really hope that they do Right, Because they had that like quick scene where they're chasing an old Irish dude what's his name?
Shaka Omari:Remick.
Charles Malone:Remick, I want to go. Remy Martin, they're chasing Remick and then they like we don't see your hair for them again, so I hope they find a way to bring that back.
Shaka Omari:That'd be interesting. So before we get in the centers I know I asked the original question Is there anything that you've read recently or been watching recently that has inspired you or reignited your fire for this industry, or is this? Are you at a point now where you feel like I'm not even sure if I still want to do this?
Charles Malone:No, I'm a glutton for punishment and I genuinely love what we get to do as professional creatives. When it's done right or I wouldn't even say right, just like when you get a project or you're working on something that like the high highs and the low lows of this industry, it's a. It's a wild roller coaster, but there's almost nothing that can beat having a like successful project come out and do well and you're like yeah you just scored a goal at the world cup. Man, you're just like yeah.
Charles Malone:Sometimes just run around my house, like you know and there's different phases of that, like when you're taking something out and then someone like picks up your project and you're like, yeah, and then the low of like well, the development process is, but like it was a nice little mini win, uh, and I think celebrating those small milestones and wins along the line kind of like helps with the uncertainty and the ups and downs of this industry.
Charles Malone:But when you hit nothing, like it, nothing like and at this point I don't even know what I would do it like if I quit now. I genuinely don't know what I would, what I would do and I'm saying creative of all mediums music, video games just you know, when you hit as a creative, it feels good I think that's why we do what we do, man, like it's.
Shaka Omari:It's just one of those things that, uh, you just can't quit it, just it just pulls you in. It's kind of like a calling. You know that? Uh, series you had me watch on Netflix. Uh, the films that made us.
Shaka Omari:I think, yeah, I mean, if you're looking for inspiration when battling to whatever your decision of success is in this industry, I think, looking at some of those and seeing just how hard it is to make these movies, it is a risk. You don't know what's going to hit and what doesn't. But when it hits, man, man, you're just like let's do it again.
Charles Malone:You know. I mean you asked me what am I watching lately? That's inspirational. But before I say what I've watched, the most recent, I will say the films that made us both. The Christmas and regular series is a great one to watch, not only just the ups and downs of this, I think.
Charles Malone:So often there's this expectation that you have to like know everything and then you can't know something or someone's going to take you less serious, and I wish more people were okay saying that like I don't know or I can figure it out, or being resourceful, Because my favorite thing about most of those episodes if somewhere in there it was someone's like first time stepping into a role, or like I never produced something before, or like I had no clue how I was going to get this money, and you're going off of raw passion and you figure it out and then you now know for the next project and you slowly learn from each project. So in that aspect it was really inspirational for me. It took off the pressure of like you have to know everything you don't. And if you're stepping into a leadership role from like a junior role, it's like you surround yourself by people who know how to do the things that you don't and you focus on the vision. But yeah, I really like that.
Charles Malone:The things that I watched recently. That gives me hope for like creativity of, like original ideas. Pantheon, um, which a lot of people already said is like really similar to the movie transcendence, with johnny depp just done better, um, common side effects yes, man that, yeah, you got me on that one common side effects blew me.
Charles Malone:It was just so good art style, so fun and kooky, but like the story underneath had such like weight to it in depth, um and thunderbolts, believe it or not like thunderbolts completely caught me off guard. Um on like how a superhero comic book film can again have such emotional depth and a message to say about, like mental health and depression that I was going in to watch a popcorn movie and then everyone around me started to cry I was like whoa okay yes, yeah it was sneaky.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, yeah, that was, that was all of us. Um, yeah, I really thought I was just gonna be like, yeah, okay, this is a Marvel movie. You know it's going to be, especially in their last couple of movies since Endgame.
Shaka Omari:I thought it was like oh yeah, it's just going to be fun, it's going to be a bunch of people beating each other up and we're just going to continue on this bigger universe and see where these characters go. But I remember being in the movie and my friend turned to me and was like, oh my gosh, I think I'm going to cry. And I was like stop saying that because I'm about to cry. And I think that was really cool because it was a bunch of us, you know, speaking on mental health, a bunch of us guys who sometimes I think men don't take the mental health seriously or as serious as we should, and to just have that emotional reaction in an action movie Brilliant, I mean like that to me was again art, you know, Brilliant, I mean like that to me was again art.
Shaka Omari:you know, that's what, or at least why, I want to do this no-transcript, your interest or anything that you've seen coming down the pipeline and any of the trades that you're kind of like. Oh okay, that's interesting. I know you'd mentioned AI earlier.
Charles Malone:Who isn't talking about? What sector of business isn't talking about? Ai? If it's like you're a psychologist taking ai notes with your like clients for their therapy sessions, or a youtube creative just figuring out how to like streamline your kind of everyone everywhere, ai, ai is the easy answer. Ai, yeah, that there's even the natasha leone. Is that her name?
Shaka Omari:uh, the one that's in poker face right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charles Malone:It seems like she's just that character in real life. Um, that's just her. She's not acting.
Shaka Omari:I guess she's acting, being her in these situations just as an actor, you bring yourself, yeah, to the role as they say, stop acting, start living.
Charles Malone:Um yeah, I won't start ragging on actors, just funny, because I yeah, I've always actually had a crush on her since, uh, but I'm just a cheerleader. But it's just like now seeing her play like, oh, you're just this kooky person in real life yeah, I know how you are with actors, that's why um, no, no, the thing she's doing with the. I forget the, the dude with the dreads it looks like he's one of from the matrix, the which was like oh dude, I'll have to pull it up on the computer yeah they're making an ai feature together, right I?
Shaka Omari:did see something about that in my article that they're planning on using ai uh to make a, and I know that that's something that you have mentioned. Is that as an artist and creative and I guess maybe we should have given a little bit of background? You know, you're a producer, slash director. You've been saying it's a tool and that people shouldn't be afraid of it.
Charles Malone:It's because there's no stopping it. All you could hope is that there's some guardrails or relegations that kind of like could help protect creatives from getting their art worked. Or someone just throwing in a prompt and like copying what they already do, but it's not going anywhere and you're just going to get left behind by trying to be like oh, this new piece of technology, we're all doom and gloom like too bad you can't stop.
Charles Malone:This train's already taking off. Where do you learn to use the tools? And, honestly, it could be really helpful.
Charles Malone:I think sometimes we get gatekeepy and precious as creatives of like protecting humanity. I'm guilty of someone who's like it's hard for me to do a soulless project, like I'm definitely not a person for hire. Hard for me to do a soulless project, like I'm definitely not a person for hire. Like I I try to find projects that have a whole, like a soul or something to say or like a pulse. So I I've been guilty of like I can't do this. It's like this is meaningless, like what is this even? For? What does it say? Uh, but are we too precious? Because, like what's the difference between you, shaka, writing a short story, a treatment, and then going to a screenwriter to help you, like write a first draft? Because your strength is not writing and is it? Is it just solely because you're taking that job away from the writer that you would hire? But what if you don't know any writers? What if you're like a kid in nebraska? Not to just pick nebraska out of nowhere, but I imagine there's not.
Shaka Omari:yeah, for might have been Nebraska, yeah for real.
Charles Malone:What did Nebraska do to me? I'm sorry y'all, Sometimes I just be shooting straight.
Shaka Omari:Like people catching strays out here.
Charles Malone:I gotta really like pull it in. But no, seriously, you're in the middle of like a place where there's not a lot of writers, right? You don't have a lot of big film community full of no like. You can go to reddit or you can go to all these different forms and find someone to help you. Is there any difference of like using an eye to help you get that first draft out or organize your thoughts than going to another writer like you're still not writing it yourself?
Shaka Omari:I mean, that's a. It's an interesting point that you bring up with that. I never thought about it that way. But yeah, for somebody who may not have access to the resources, um, you know, this is a a great way to kind of I don't want to say level the playing field, but open up the gates to helping them elevate themselves or be a part of the whole machine. So I could see that from that aspect and I think there's something to be said about like having part of the humanity, like the taste in there, because I saw this really interesting I wish I had gotten the name of it, this interesting meme, I guess you could say where they were joking about someone going in to see a film and they could either see an AI generated film or a live action film, and they were saying the live action film would cost a lot more because you've got to pay the actors, but the AI film would be cheaper.
Shaka Omari:But then they gave you the option of do you want it with ads or without ads? So it started tacking on, because they had to make money out of it, the business side, and I guess all of that I'm saying all that to say that I do still feel that there is something about human beings doing something. So taking a AI to give you your treatment but then still having your human taste added to it, that AI is not going to replace, no matter how much you train it on human data, because it's just going to regurgitate Like somebody needs to look at it and say let's try this or do something different. At least, that's my opinion.
Charles Malone:You know, I think AI is eventually going to pick up on trends and be able to kind of like predict the next thing at some point in time, but right now I think it's the way to survival. I think one of the things I think is oversimplified but also was a nice little like. Here it is in a simple, little few words. It's like high productivity plus taste equals survival. Like using these tools to continue helping you put stuff out and get and like make things, then take them from like your head to this tangible thing on paper they can share with other people, and just trying to use your own arts, the subjective man. Like things that are funny to me might not be funny to other people.
Charles Malone:I have a really dark sense of humor, so I personally know that that some of these that make me laugh might make other people cringe or just say, like that's in bad taste, charles. So who are we to say? You know, I know we didn't even get on Sinners yet, but yeah, ai is definitely a big one. I'm also a big fan of like VR, whether it's for gaming or just experience. I think it's a thing that's not going anywhere and that's slowly just still cooking in the background. So just tech, tech and storytelling.
Shaka Omari:Video games yeah, that's, that's a another form of storytelling. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, it all boils down to what tool do you want to use to get your story out there, and it's still going to have to have somewhat of a human element yeah, and not the harp on this like taste thing, but what is it called?
Charles Malone:expedition 33 was a game that kind of like hit the market and everyone's like oh, this developer left ubisoft and, like you know, decided to make this game on his own over the last five years and he found his head writer off of reddit and he found this composer that never composed video games before and they put this ragtag team together to make this game that just launched and sold like a million copies and everyone's like this game's amazing and I'm 45 minutes into it and it's boring for me.
Charles Malone:I did not see that coming and like I'm trying so hard, my like, my best bud, like literally, was like oh man, we're gonna love this game and with it's just so freaking slow.
Charles Malone:Like the way the characters move are slow, the story moves at a slow pace and like baldergate is not everyone's cup of tea. I like I love that game. That game's too slow for people. So like I'm sitting here surrounded by people, like it's like the dark knight all over again for me. Like the dark knight came out, I was like this is the best thing ever and I was like the joker was the best thing ever.
Shaka Omari:The rest of the movie is okay okay, okay, see, the podcast is about to go off the rails here. Because what, hey look, I look, I'm gonna give he father ledger his props. Yes, the joker made that movie, but, as I've always said, a hero is only as good as his villain, and so I feel that was a complete picture, a complete movie, like I, I dug it, I, I, I'm surrounded again.
Charles Malone:I know, I know what I was saying was controversial. I knew exactly what I was, oh, okay.
Shaka Omari:All right, well, with that, I think we should talk about Sinners, because now I'm really curious to know what your thoughts are on Sinners, because I know a lot of people loved this movie.
Charles Malone:They did and I also love. Sinners, but I'm also not going to sit here like you can't critique anything because like, oh no, it's amazing, you can't say anything bad about a thing. It's still like art and you still can have like and it's not even nitpicky. I just had one part that just I felt he let his imagination run and no one checked him on it. Okay.
Shaka Omari:So I'm just going to go at this point in time and say spoiler warning. So if you have not seen the movie by now, you may want to back out. But we're going to go into detail on Sinners because, yeah, this is one of the movies I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that I felt really inspired me, and now I'm very curious as to what my producing partner, Charles, here has to say. I loved it.
Charles Malone:I was completely like blown away by such a like a fun original vampire story, because it's been a minute since we've seen like a good vampire movie. So in that sense it's like it's like oh man, all these cool black places, black movies always have like an amazing soundtrack and more than that the story was. You know, I have no problem with the story. I actually love the story. I love the emotional journey of the brothers, like like it's. It's a movie that I'm going to own and I'm going to re-watch and dig into, because I like there's so many like it's layered
Charles Malone:cheeky little things in there on top of it being layered. I was like, oh you, you fudgers are like cheeky, I see what you're doing here. Um, but it's it's. It's one of those movies that I had a hard time turning off my brain, where, like I want to analyze this film but like I also want to just like enjoy it and watch it. So I started off with like okay, like the opening, opening sequence, right away, like opening.
Charles Malone:I was like there's like african gods and lores and things like yes I'm, I'm digging it and I was like I'm just gonna watch this and then I like, then started to like okay, I see what you guys are doing. So I would like slip back and forth between like just enjoying the experience, but also then trying to like break it down.
Shaka Omari:Okay. So I actually have a question on that, because I find myself doing the same thing too. Do you feel that, now that you've worked in the industry because this is my opinion, you've worked in the industry that you don't watch movies the same way Like you almost start to like break it down and analyze it from a producer standpoint, versus just like an audience member?
Charles Malone:Well, the simple answer is yes I will say, if you ask anyone's close to me, I've always to watch movies in this way of like trying to understand them and just maybe as someone who, like, wanted to make movies. But now that I know how things are made, it's worse. Yeah, uh, it's worse. Like, well, I, I really get pulled out of things when I can tell, like it's a lot, or the lighting is insanely artificial and it's a world I'm supposed to buy into, but it's so hard because I can just tell that this is on a lot. Yeah.
Shaka Omari:You can see the nuances and it pulls me out.
Charles Malone:And then you ruin it for your partner, who may have not seen it before, and you're complaining about things they didn't see. And now it's too late, because now they can continuity.
Shaka Omari:It's like wait a minute. His shirt was wet in one scene and then the next one. He's not.
Charles Malone:I'm actually really forgiving on continuity, really I get it. I've worked with some actors that like won't do the same, take twice.
Shaka Omari:Okay, see, look there you are with the actor thing and I know who you're talking about.
Charles Malone:All right, all right, okay and it's great because they give you variety. But then you're like, oh, like I really franken hey look sometimes we're just in the moment.
Shaka Omari:All right, In defense of all actors. We're in the moment.
Charles Malone:I could be talking about Robert Downey Jr.
Shaka Omari:Don't try to be slick, don't try to be slick, no, but it centers.
Charles Malone:It was one of those movies that was so well done that I was trying to like take as much from it as I could. It's like you know, when you're Dude, how many times did you see it? Well, only once right now. Okay, I got a kid man. He's like you know, into the movies.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, fair enough, fair enough, yeah, yeah.
Charles Malone:A two and a half year old. It's getting to the movie theaters. I'm going to have to wait for it to come out. I agree, I agree, yeah, yeah, and and I guess, if I'm just going to jump to, the only thing that took me out of the world, please is simultaneously, by the way, one of my like favorite scenes and sequences. I just thought it was unnecessary to the story the way it was drug out and it pulled me out of the world as it did my fiance. We like kind of looked each other like. This is going on for a long time. It's the when he's pulling in preacher boy starts like playing his, his first jam, and he started bringing in the ancestors.
Charles Malone:And the ancestors were fine, but then the breakdancer came in.
Shaka Omari:Oh.
Charles Malone:And then the twerking in the kitchen, and then they brought the future up and it's like man I know music is transcending time. It's a part of our culture. But I think the future bit just completely took me out of the present moment in the film and I love it for what it is, but for the story it just pulled, pulled. If they just kept just the ancestor bit I would have been fine. But then they brought in the future and I was like this is a little too absurd for me. I could see that.
Shaka Omari:I mean, I hear you, I could see that. Yes, I will admit, when I saw it, you know, I went to go see it late at night because I'm not I'm not a horror person. Everybody knows that. So on this podcast, if we discuss anything horror, it's going to be coming from Charles. I went to go see it anyways because I really felt like I should see this movie and that moment really impacted me because, you know me, I love music and I love to dance and I understand the imagery he was going for.
Shaka Omari:Sometimes you just fall into the music and you forget about, you know, like Outkast said, you forget about all the troubles of the day. You know, spuddy, odie, dopealicious Angel. So it did jar me when, like the electric guitar, you know George Carlin, is it George Carlin or is that the comedian P-Funk? You know the guitar came into it. I was kind of like, oh okay, but I did see what he was going for.
Shaka Omari:I did see how he was saying not only is Preacher Boy which I think this is what you're saying Preacher Boy's music is built on the ancestors' music, but everything coming from the future as well is built on blues, the ancestral music, all of that kind of stuff. So it was kind of, I think, for me, at least in the living in the modern era, to be like oh yeah, I am connected to my ancestors and what I build now, which I think is like art, words of gladiator, echoes into eternity, like everything it is that we do in this life. So while it did, it did take me out, because it was so like oh we're mixing everything.
Charles Malone:Right, yeah, I agree.
Shaka Omari:Uh, I did like the in my mind, I guess, the beauty or the poetry of what he was trying to show and how they brought the house down with the whole burning the house down thing.
Charles Malone:The roof is on fire.
Shaka Omari:The roof is on fire. I think, you know, for those of you that know us, you've seen us at, you know out and about at the clubs, you know RIP the den and have seen us tear up the dance floor and bring the house down and that, I think, resonated with me a lot in that aspect.
Charles Malone:There's within sinners and just the culture. Is that? You know, I'm not even gonna like we are the culture.
Charles Malone:Let me not even we are the culture, not even just like you and I going into these um dry places and just not not intending to turn these into dance floors or it becoming a place to go, but just being in a crap situation and being bored and just having fun enjoying ourselves and I think we've done that as a people of take, you know, the scraps of what's handed to us and turn it into something that everyone wants to consume and enjoy is both centers as a movie and the story, and what we do as a people.
Shaka Omari:You know that brings up a really okay. So that brings up something really interesting for me on this. So I've watched the movie about three times, three times in theater and I've already pre-ordered it. At the beginning of the movie, when the Smokestack twins are like waiting for Hogwood or whatever to come in off, in the background corner there are two vultures circling and as Hogwood pulls up, a third vulture swoops down into frame and then goes back and joins it. It's the same vultures we see when Remick shows up at the Ku Klux Klan house and then those same vultures show up the night of when everything is starting.
Shaka Omari:And some of the things I've been reading on the internet is while vultures represent death right, because it's that the hog board is bringing death the twins, you know there's death surrounding them. It also made a really interesting allegory to culture vulture speaking of. What you're saying is how we create joy out of the scraps that are given to us. And then someone comes in and sees that joy and says, well, hey, we want to make money off of this. Come join us, come give up your culture, we want this so all of us can experience it. And it's almost like, while that seems to make sense. It's a lie, like, I think, the idea of the vampirism, the culture, vulturism, you go and assimilate, you lose your soul, your culture in the process.
Charles Malone:Man, you're just starting. I don't want to like I only saw it, because I can go off on like eight different tangents about this. I'm just going to try to keep it contained. The first thing is that this reminds me of get out when you make something as a creative that's so impactful and so commercially successful that everyone just starts placing their theories on what the writer or director meant. And I'm not saying that that wasn't intentional to be culture vultures or about death. I just love when people start reading into stuff and come up with their own theories.
Charles Malone:I used to watch some of the old Jordan Peele interviews and he was like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't think that, but I'll take it like sometimes sometimes you know as again as as a director myself there's, there's your vision, you have in it and then, like people then read into that and sometimes it's their interpretation is better than the thing that they actually yeah, you actually intended, um, and that's kind of what I hope it meant to be a double entendre kind of thing with the vultures and deaf and culture vultures, um, but I don't know, that's just my first thing with that uh, the the culture, vulture-ness, it's just such a sensitive ass topic.
Charles Malone:Uh, every I I am this is not gonna be pc y'all, because I'm a rip paul mooney, um, and just say what paul says everybody wanted to be a nigga, but nobody wanted to be a nigga um and you know, you see, that with a lot of young kids that aren't black or brown, growing up, they want to consume the, the music, the, the, the, the fashion, the, the entertainment, and I think sometimes we reduce ourselves to just entertainment when we had such more impact on, like, innovation and invention. But then they, they, they grow up and shit changes, um, and then they do want to be a vulture, and the vulture, in a sense, they want to pick the pieces that they want and then discard the rest, and this has been coming up a lot recently. Uh, my favorite meme it's these like little gray blobs and these blue blobs. I think I may have sent you this meme, but historically, even to today.
Charles Malone:Um, you know, as people start throwing on black fatigue, which is something, just another deep sigh, I'll get into it. But white culture is like, hey, you guys don't belong over here. So we go, okay, we'll go make a space for ourselves. We start enjoying ourselves, it looks fun, and it's like, hey, you're excluding us. And it's it's like no, you told us we didn't fit in. So we just like doing our own jam over here. And it's like, yeah, but that's not fair and we always take the high road. So we're like, all right, come, get down. And then they're like you don't belong here either. The place we created for ourselves, that we just invited you into now we don't belong here because you're here, and it's rinse and fucking repeat.
Shaka Omari:Okay, so that's interesting that you bring that up, because, to your point, sometimes people read into the movies and things like that and get things deeper than what maybe the artist intended, which is what I love about art Two people can look at something and get something completely different. That being said, what you just described there, do you think that kind of goes with?
Charles Malone:what Remick?
Shaka Omari:was doing when he was trying to be invited into this space, and all of them were at the door and they're like, well, no, this is our spot. I think you're looking for the place down the street. You know, Remick obviously acts so shocked when they're like you know, are you part of the clan? And we're like what? No, sir, doesn't that kind of? Do you think that scene kind of encapsulate what you were just saying about that meme? They went, bought this, this juke joint, this place, this sawmill, created their own space, created their own space. Remick saw it, saw them having a good time, wanted to join because he wanted sammy's spot, wanted sammy's thing, assimilate them into it and then discard the rest maybe there's a simple, simple answer I will with with Remick.
Charles Malone:I'm gonna project something onto coogler and the writers of this that I I hope they intended when they were writing the character Remick is that he's one of these villain, antagonist characters that you can actually argue both directions right. The tragic villain, yeah, and I actually really love it because, like, was he equal opportunity? His thing was just a consuming hate. He was equal opportunity hate, like he didn't want to suffer alone, he wanted to make his own space and he technically was inclusive, right, right, uh. So yes and no, and I like that you can play devil's advocate with Remick character because, like life, everything is not just black and white and it's different degrees of gray.
Shaka Omari:So yes, yes and no, yeah, that that's so.
Shaka Omari:I'm gonna go down the rabbit hole with a lot of these theories that I've been seeing that is something that people were saying is that Remick, he speaks about his Irish heritage, which I found this part to be very interesting in the breakdown right when he first shows up, he shows up kind of like a fallen angel or whatever and he drops down burning on fire. That's the symbolism somebody had mentioned, which I thought okay, that was kind of interesting. And then when they open up the door and they ask him who it is, the first thing he says is the Choctaw are after me. To which they say, oh, there's no Indians using their colloquialism around here. You're sure it wasn't some light-skinned people To which when he sees the Ku Klux Klan thing, he then switches his tactic, says Indians and then offers them money, which I found interesting in that aspect, because when he's telling the whole story at the end, where he's saying the Lord's Prayer and he's saying those words were the same words that were told to me as they took my grandfather's land, but they always brought me comfort.
Shaka Omari:It kind of to me felt like, to your point, Remick became what it is he hated, which is the assimilation and the destruction of his culture, and he's trying to get back to it and he's offering the same thing to Sammy and the rest for the advantage of having access to his ancestry, but it's no different than what happened to him, because Sammy now has to give up his soul, basically, and live on this earth kind of in this hateful environment, which I think is why annie calls them vampires, worse than just the, the hates I think, yeah, there's a lot of stuff though they're pulling from and I hope in like the sequel or somewhere.
Charles Malone:I was hoping to see boo hags which are like this, like hoodoo folklore monster. They're kind of like skinwalkers if you google some images. It's creepy and I want someone to put that into something of course you would, with the horror stuff yeah oh, dude, it's so.
Charles Malone:It's kind of like grotesque and you like, yeah, so I hope a, if you're listening, take that, go ahead, someone do it. I'm trying to, but someone beat me to it. Um, yeah, with, with, with vrimic, and in this, this movie as a whole, I think at least a few people, so I won't speak to a larger group of people because I haven't talked to everyone. It's making some black people question their belief system, because what did we believe in culturally before coming to this land and before Christianity was forced upon people in Africa? What were the original gods and belief systems before christianity?
Charles Malone:And it's making people feel like I know one in particular too, actually that like didn't know how they felt about the movie, because it's making themselves question what they believe if it was forced upon them, which they don't want, obviously don't want to think about, because then it breaks everything that who you are was built upon. Um, uh, it's. I think it's really fascinating. Yeah, I love this movie because there's just so much to dig into. That's why it's like my one critique of like that piece being really jarring and taking me out of it doesn't completely throw away the whole how much I love the rest of the movie interesting and can I?
Charles Malone:can I just say they also touch on like colorism within the the black community itself, because of like white passing people and like light-skinned people and I think that both externally and internally in society, I think we sometimes treat black people and black culture as a monolith.
Charles Malone:Like this is one black experience, as if you know, I grew up and much like yourself people saying like everyone in your house speaks so well and you're always like as opposed to what, and I think you know we've gotten tricked into thinking that being educated and articulate and like this is just being assimilating to whiteness and like no one owns betterment of oneself right of humanity.
Charles Malone:Yeah yeah, so uh, you know, and it's not just a black community. I have a lot of latin friends that feel the same thing, like anytime you're doing anything that feels like it's not, I think, what they I heard someone put this really well of confusing like low income, slash hood culture with your like ethnic culture, and whether that be Latino or black, you're not just what you see in like a music video or how they depict you in a TV show. We are like much more than that.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, you know, bringing up the bring that up, I mean, like I did feel for which I think is interesting, at the end of the movie, right. So, mary, who you're talking about, with the colorism, right Back in those times, I think that the term was like octoroon, it was like the one drop rule, right. And you know, I did feel for her character when she said, you know, she never wanted to go in that area, like she didn't want to be, she didn't want to marry a white man, she didn't want to do any of that kind of stuff. So it really kind of put in perspective how this construct of colorism really boxed people in and didn't allow people to be free in a sense.
Charles Malone:Yeah, I had like two thoughts there and they were like battling, and sometimes my brain can't hold on to multiple thoughts, but I think it's you that said like, oh man, the problem with mary was like the moment she went tried to get some white money was all fucked up for her, yeah. So I think I'm gonna lose that original thought because I that was just making me laugh because we had this conversation before. Yeah, um, no, it's, it's the one drop. I think is one of the biggest jokes that's coming back really hard to affect white society as a whole.
Charles Malone:This like threat they're feeling of becoming the minority group, whether it's not an immediate threat, but you're talking about 15, 20 more years as, like you know, the the this is a country of immigrants. People are constantly migrating from all over the world and that one drop rule in interracial relationships threatens that number. So it's like man, if the joke's on you for this one drop rule, because anytime you're like one drop. If the joke's on you for this one drop rule, because anytime you're like one drop of any race that's not white, you become that other race. Um right.
Charles Malone:So that's, that's your fault.
Shaka Omari:And that breaks down the foundation of this aspect of segregation and all those other things, because it's like it just doesn't, it just doesn't stack up, it just doesn't stand. You know, and it the thing that you brought up, that I said about like the minute she went and tried to get white money, is also something I found interesting in this movie. Right, money seems to be the cause of all the problems, because they were having a good time in the juke joint until they realized, oh my gosh, we're not making any money. I think it's smoke that says to Annie I've gone all around this world and I haven't seen any demons, no ghosts, no anything. All I've ever seen is money and power.
Shaka Omari:So the minute that they go after the money and Mary uses her proximity to whiteness to go get the money, that lets everything break loose. She's let back in because she can pass between both worlds and that starts everything falling down. And then, at the very end, as Smoke is starting to transition, he's starting to see Annie and the baby, he's pulled back into the reality because Hogwood, as he's dying, goes look, I have some money, you know. And that's when he kills Hogwood, because it seems like money is the only thing that matters, not your soul, not your spirit, not your talent, just money. Can I buy this off of you?
Charles Malone:Well, I think you know, one thing that we haven't discussed in any of our conversations was the movie's called Sinners and I haven't caught all of them, granted, because I only watched the movie once but the inclusion of, like the seven deadly sins throughout the movie itself.
Shaka Omari:Oh, I've seen it three times. I didn't think about that.
Charles Malone:Well, greed, right away, mm-hmm, um, you know, was the number one money, money, money, money money. And we're seeing that in our society right now because everyone's burnt out, because, like true down economy didn't work right, the lost I mean he, he, he had that whole tap that, tap that uh, yeah, that is true, that's how he got it.
Shaka Omari:Somebody made a joke about the reason the devil was after sammy is because he had that marinated.
Charles Malone:Uh, mm-hmm, okay now I love the, just also that I guess the actress really is like a quarter black or something. I just love the. The train station. He's like she turns around. He's like you sure she's, you sure she's not, that's why, the movie's so goddamn cheeky, uh, but lust I mean he. He pretty much died for less. He was left lusting after that married black woman lost is definitely there.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, yeah, adul. Yeah, adultery Cause the woman was married. What's her name?
Charles Malone:Yeah, that's what I I still think it falls under lust. But yeah, the, the, the married black woman, um, pride, pride and ego is definitely there. Um, you know, across the, the stack, brothers themselves and Remick, um, even even preacher boy, was a bit prideful. So the, the pride was there. You know, I haven't, I haven't caught sloth yet or or gluttony, um, I guess wrath you can kind of chuck up to any violence. Envy, I thought was was interesting because, like you have the, the envy of white culture. Every time we're doing something for ourselves and that's what I think about the kkk sheriff dude, yeah hogwood yeah, okay, I'm really bad with names, but he he never was going to have them succeed like his.
Charles Malone:Historically, at that time, anytime black people had more money than a white person, it was set to go south. Um, so I've been trying to like catch all the seven deadly sins throughout centers. But the the cultural comparison of envy is I find I find fascinating, because to me that one still goes on very regularly and it's a hard one to to break and when we think about culture vultures, it's just we're just saying cultural appropriation and this is maybe my own personal philosophy or thought of it is that once we can get to a place of cultural appreciation over cultural comparison, we'll start moving into a better direction, because no, culture isn't isn better, it's just different. And if we can start appreciating people for their differences instead of stacking and comparing the differences, we can move forward in a more productive way.
Shaka Omari:I mean that's a beautiful way of putting it. You've also got me now thinking about the seven deadly sins and I'm trying to go through all of them in the movie as well, because I mean mean gluttony would would be alcohol, an alcoholic be considered gluttony, because that would be like delta slim and assuming more than you can handle.
Charles Malone:Oh, okay, okay. The the dude with the alcohol. Um yeah, because it was the irish, it was the irish beer.
Shaka Omari:Okay, yeah all you can consume right, exactly that, that was the Irish beer, okay yeah, all you can consume. Right, Exactly that. That was the thing that sold him to switch from his regular, his regular job.
Charles Malone:This is why it's such a collaborative industry. Some people just put things together in ways that you didn't yeah.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, it's art. I love that man. See, now I'm going to have to go a character we haven't touched on, because we've touched on Mary. You know the white passing. We've touched on Sammy. I actually want to go a little deeper in Sammy and you were talking about Christianity. We talked about Death to Slim. You know that scene with him where he's talking about how the blues came to pass, where he starts singing. I saw an interview where he said that was just improv and kudos to Delroy for that. Yeah, I'm saying on a first name.
Charles Malone:Phenomenal actor.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, just brilliant, choosing to make that choice, the pain to start humming and singing, and that's you know. That is the blues we talked about the Smokestack twins. Man, I can't, that's a tongue twister. It's all good, where you know the pride. But I had a question for you what do you think about grace? Grace and bell, they're the, the chinese shop owners. I thought it's a loaded fucking question. My, my fiancee is chinese that's why I want to get your perspective.
Charles Malone:Yeah, I, I thought it was great because with with a little bit of research and just knowing historically they, they were able to move, as they are now, between both communities seamlessly, so like they were had a store for the black folks and then they had a store for the white folks and they're just kind of caught in the middle, which it still feels that way, and this whole like model minority thing I think grace got a lot of flack for like opening the door and bringing in the the chaos, but she was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Charles Malone:Like she's trying to make sure they don't go home and get her daughter which I mean that was never gonna win choose. She was in a lose-lose situation. Right, you go out, you die and join your daughter. You let the men fight, you die, they go home and get your daughter anyway. But at some points there I think they kind of put that kind of like Emmett Till situation there of like the uncle when the clan came for Emmett was like it's either the boy or your whole family and that's like an impossible choice.
Shaka Omari:A Sophie's Choice kind of thing.
Charles Malone:Yeah, but I love to see us as allies because I think we're regularly pitted against each other in society and I'll tell you, I'm uncomfortable in Asian spaces as much as probably an asian person in black spaces. I think that my own personal experience one group is actually a little bit more accepting, uh, than the other one. Um, and I think I was talking to an old vet and I love talking to old vets who served in this country because it's the duality and the internal confliction of like feeling not respected, as a black veteran, for everything you do for this country while simultaneously having pride for fighting for your country. It is like so wild. And he this particular event I was talking to fought in the Korean war and we were talking about I was coming fresh off of sinners after when I met him and I was like man it does suck that the black community doesn't get enough respect for the rights that we all have as americans, and other racial groups constantly just see us as like thugs or the problem.
Charles Malone:You know you're going to be the angry black man or the angry black woman in the workplace when, like know you're going to be the angry black man or the angry black women in the workplace when, like, the majority of people wouldn't have the freedoms that they have now without us fighting for ourselves and everyone.
Shaka Omari:Yeah that, yeah that. That is, as I say, like that is, it's a perspective I don't think that gets talked about a lot Like we're not just fighting for ourselves, we're fighting for base level humanity, I guess is the best way to put it. You know, it's like when you've seen the darker side of humanity, you're choosing to not let somebody else feel that it's not just about you, it's about no one should feel that kind of thing.
Charles Malone:Yeah, it's, it's, it's, we've we've been kind of like duped. I mean, critical thinking in our country is again, I only speak to what I know in our country is it's in a crapshoot. And I say that because if you, if you look out into the world globally, I mean everyone has a problem. You have the cartel, the Yakuza, the triad, the mafia, the Russian mafia, the, the russian. You have these gangs and drug runners and drug dealers and gun runners, like, whether you're in the middle east or in some like small tiny island, this is like a low income, lack of education, like, yeah, like opportunity, like this is what you think you have to do to to get by, and you're looking for the fastest dollar. This is not a problem of any one specific racial group or you wouldn't have these things in every other country when it's uh it is classism, but the.
Charles Malone:The word I'm looking for is, uh, like a homogenous, like yeah one, it's only one race in this country and you still have this problem. It's not just black people.
Shaka Omari:I will go a little nerdy with this and then, like the deep thing, I do find it interesting, speaking of you know, and Grace, that the character that's getting the most flack in that aspect is the one that's named Grace, you know, and the whole point of the whole movie is called Sinners, and it's like the one person that should have grace is Grace because, you're right, she is put through a rock and a hard place. And then I'm like the nerdy. Probably people getting you know things that Ryan Coogler didn't intend. I saw somebody say something about which I thought was beautifully done, how they're on both sides of the street, right, because you know, there's the white store and the black store. So they're kind of like the bridge between the two races in this community. They're able to flow in between.
Shaka Omari:But when Grace stabs her husband, at the end it also shows like a bridge and it's burning, which some people interpret that as when you're talking about we're allies, we're all allies, until we get put in a position where we have to think about ourselves, and when we do that, that's when the whole thing burns down, that's when it all Self-preservation, exactly, exactly and to your point. It's really hard to then judge somebody when they're put between a rock and a hard place and they got to think am I doing this for the community or am I going to do this for my immediate family?
Charles Malone:and I think that's a beautiful way of interpreting that whole scene and giving grace, a little grace, yeah, I, I give grace, all the grace, because she was going to lose. There was like no way of her realistically saying like she gets turned, they go home and turn her daughter, they, they open the doors, their chances of losing were really great, which they did, and then they go home and turn her daughter anyway yeah the the chances were so slim of her ever really saving her daughter from this yeah, she just wanted to go out like a boss, I guess, and in that aspect I mean I guess she did because they all died.
Shaka Omari:She did yes yeah, she was the she's she's, I think killed the first vampire. She stabbed both straight up while being on fire, like she was. She was like I'm I'm taking you out with me you're not going home and getting our girl no so I hope.
Charles Malone:I hope in that case grace's daughter comes back as an older lady, a vampire hunter yeah, yeah, yeah, dope.
Shaka Omari:What did you think about the? Michelle yeah you heard it here first, folks, you heard it here first. Um. What did you think about the? Maybe michelle yeah, you heard it here first, folks, you heard it here first. Um. What did you think about the ending um with?
Charles Malone:with the alternate ending or the regular ending. Not the alternate ending but like the extra credit scene or the extra, extra credit scene.
Charles Malone:Yeah uh, both sammy leaving the like, going back to his dad and choosing to go out. Anyway, you know, I think he he still did what was right for him. He was never going back to the church, he would have dealt with faith on his his own terms. And I dig I I. It resonated with me because I feel like, as someone who grew up in the church and with the catholic school, it never I asked too many questions and it doesn't mean I'm a heathen, I just decided to deal with faith between me and God.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's kind of as someone who's a man of faith myself, that's something I got out of it. The production designer gosh I can't remember her name right now, but she actually was tweeting out some interesting things and she was saying like the scene where it's Sammy and his father in the church, the crosses, they represent the father, the son, the Holy Ghost, and that's kind of what Sammy and the father kind of represent in that aspect, and that they're all 33 inches apart, which is about the age when Jesus started his thing.
Charles Malone:Don't somebody talk about the gone years of Jesus?
Shaka Omari:Yeah, that's a different podcast. We can go down that route Completely different. But I really thought it was interesting because the very end-to-end credit scene where Sammy's playing this little light of mine in the church, but he's playing it like a blues musician it goes back to the beginning of the movie where his father says you know, when you come in, I want you to lead the kids choir in this little light of mine. And what I love about that ending scene, which I think encapsulates the whole movie being called Sinners, is it Sammy using the light that he has, the talent that he has in the way it is that is best for him, which is playing blues music. It may not be in a church-setting atmosphere, the way that his father, the rules that his father said it should be. He's letting his light shine. He's letting his light shine the way that it should and it's bringing joy to people. It's bringing happiness to people. It's not making people heathens.
Shaka Omari:For a moment, which I think ties into the second thing. For a moment we got to be free. I almost broke down crying because I know what that feels like when you don't have the judgment, you don't have the pressure to try to be a perfect human being You're just allowed to be for a moment. It is, I think, what is truly free, and I think that's the whole point of you know, if you think biblically, jesus saying like you know, all of us are sinners, we've all fallen short. It's like there's no room to judge everybody. Instead, we should all be, just for a moment, trying to help each other. Not going to get on a sermon, but that's just what I thought about the whole thing.
Charles Malone:Yeah, I think there's something I recently discovered a book, I think it's like covered a book. Um, I think it's like the body keeps the score and it's about the like a physical stress on your body, of like trauma and when you are in a position to be completely uninhibited by the pressures of either your surroundings or society. It is, it is freeing and it does feel feel good. I think one of the when I moved out to california I was jobless for like a year and some change and I didn't really have like a stable place. I was like crashing with people.
Charles Malone:There was something oddly freeing about living out of a duffel bag and you know, I'm doing decently now. I guess I have a kid, I a family, but it's still like. But then the pressures change and there is something just like just freeing. So so, yeah, it's that that, that that freedom is different for everyone. But yeah, I get it. Yeah. And then the, the, the end credit scene. I like how they didn't turn, turn him and let him like he still want to go on his terms the way he lived. Yeah, yeah that that I respected.
Shaka Omari:I respected, like the love and respect they still had for him, despite the fact that they were vampires. You know, yeah, I crazy movie like just you brought up some other shows that you told me about what you just said. There brought up some other shows which I think we'll talk about in a future podcast, but the uh, the uh, the John Hamm Apple.
Charles Malone:Oh yeah, we're going to save it, Cause that that was yeah, yeah, our friends and neighbors will just drop it because that's awesome. That's really good questions.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, yeah.
Charles Malone:Yeah, but again love the movie. There's so much to dig into. You've seen it three times I. There's a lot, there's a lot and it's all hard to do in the time it takes to do a podcast because there's just we can keep finding new things to pick up, to pick at that completely correlate and are still relevant, like right now in society and like Cougar's pulling from some, like real places and it's dope.
Charles Malone:And we didn't really get into like the music. Like we talked about that one sequence, but really the music from start to finish was used so beautifully and I actually found one person that found the music distracting. But I thought the sound, design and music together, the way they transitioned and bled things in and out, it was like perfectly weaved into this movie and that's what I'm looking forward to going I already listened to the soundtrack but like I'm really going back to study like what's called like the j cuts and the l cuts of, like how they use audio to glue scenes together and and it's yeah, that scene where she lights the match and it goes straight into the music, even even the preacher boy.
Charles Malone:That high note when the roof's on fire, yes to the pan down to to Remick was just so seamless to me also I realized listening to it, it was auto-tuned.
Shaka Omari:So to your whole thing's going so future because rap music ends up using auto-tune.
Charles Malone:At some point in time I was like, oh, that's insane I know it feels like we're wrapping this up soon, but we also didn't like. I want to redo a little bit more research for the cultural relevancy of like making Remick irish and folk music. I know Ryan said his name like Ryan Coogler.
Shaka Omari:One of his names is irish and he's always been fascinated with that, but yeah yeah, it sounds to me like we're gonna have to do a second podcast because you're also irish, mr malone. Um, there's, you're right, we didn't touch on the chakta indians and the irish connection, and yeah, it's uh, I'm also indian, it's.
Charles Malone:It's why this movie is definitely for me.
Charles Malone:But my I come from a multi-generational, multi-ethnic family and you know my irish family members in massachusetts grew up sandwiched next to to black people and they they were like seamlessly intertwined with each other's and I grew up in this really sheltered way of not seeing a racial divide because we were all equals, both like wealthy people doing good for themselves on both sides as well as like people doing shit they shouldn't do on both sides.
Charles Malone:So you know, I kind of grew up in a definitely a sheltered, special way of like never experiencing early on that, that major difference. So I think one of the things I bring to my own storytelling is like I see people as people, right, not say I'm not. No, I'm not saying I don't see color because it exists, yes, but I think both when creating stories and when I'm going into projects that I'm producing, um, I look for things that transcend the boxes we put each other in, because the core essence of the human experience we all feel, regardless of where we're from, which is why this movie is still resonant, no matter like what you, everyone knows what it's like to experience loss.
Shaka Omari:Yes.
Charles Malone:People are showing grace. Grace because that's an impossible choice for any person.
Shaka Omari:Right, this is, this is why I like art. I think it is the thing that connects us, you know like. It is the thing to your point which is why we started. You know, our journey in this business is because we all share the same human experiences, despite the culture, despite the region, despite, you know, being on the other side of the world. We can all resonate with these feelings, feelings of I'm not good enough, these feelings of I don't belong here, these feelings of you can't cross that side of the street. All of those things that I think encompasses this movie so brilliantly. It also inspired me me like I need to, to work on my craft like I really need to.
Charles Malone:Oh yeah, the sinners is definitely a movie that makes you want to like do the thing that you say you want to do. It's easy to to get analysis, paralysis because you want something to be perfect or good, but I recommend everyone. As we wrap this up, you clearly know sinners was directed by Ryan Coogler. Go listen to some of the early episodes of proximity media his podcast. He talks about his journey with his founder. Or go listen to team deacons roger deacons podcast. He interviews ryan Coogler. Coogler is not shy about sharing his experience. Like he says Fruitvale, he didn't. He kind of felt like he was out of his depths, like he'd never managed almost a million dollars before. And then he went to Creed and got 30 million and again felt underwater. And then again with Black Panther he'd never managed close to $200 million. And again it's going back to the original thing I said like sometimes we're expected to know everything and you're never going to know everything, so just start doing something.
Shaka Omari:A hundred percent.
Charles Malone:Get out there.
Shaka Omari:Live your passion.
Charles Malone:Yeah, all right, I think that's kind of like getting to the end. Here we're going to wrap things up. You want to give them your, where, the, where the, follow the Shaka at, or the Instagram social media stuff.
Shaka Omari:Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram at Shaka Omari, or you can follow our production company at open queue productions on IG, which is pretty much where we're at most of the time.
Charles Malone:And then we're going to stand this up on the YouTube, which we do, you know, the whole deal with the like and subscribe, and you can follow me in the grocery store, because I don't have social media. Don't follow me in the groce ry store Trader Joe's.
Shaka Omari:You're going to have an influx of people. Well, thank you for listening to our first podcast and we will catch you on the flip side. The Open Queue is an Open Queue production. If you like the show, be sure to follow, rate and review it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast app, and tell your friends and fam to do the same. Also, feel free to share a link to someone who you think might really enjoy this conversation. The music you're currently listening to is Delta Slim from the movie Sinners, composed by Ludwig Göransson. Until next time, see you in the queue.