Living on Incline

#020 Why I Couldn't Face This for 10 Years | Lauren Sisler | PART 1

• Living on Incline • Season 1 • Episode 20

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Emmy winning sports reporter Lauren Sisler joins John Eklund on Living on Incline to share the story she hid for a decade. After losing both of her parents to addiction during her freshman year of college, Lauren lived a double life, balancing a high profile career at ESPN and the SEC Network while keeping her family tragedy a secret.

In this deep and moving conversation, Lauren discusses the "sugar coated story" she told herself to survive and why she eventually decided to look at the toxicology reports she feared for years. She explores the power of labels, the reality of addiction in "good families," and how she found freedom by falling in love with her broken story. Her new book, Shatterproof, serves as a guide for others to turn the page and write their own next chapter.

TIMESTAMPS
[01:00:00] Welcome to Living on Incline with host John Eklund
[01:00:40] The "Fancy Pants" podcast joke and redecorating the backdrop
[01:03:15] Lauren's career: Reporter, producer, and the best entrances in college football
[01:08:45] The Secret: "10 years that I refuse to look at the death certificate"
[01:14:20] The police report and the "three typed up paragraphs" that changed everything
[01:21:10] Living in denial: "The sugar coated story" created for sanity
[01:30:45] Breaking the labels: Why society’s definition of an addict is wrong
[01:45:30] The fear of the truth vs. the freedom of acceptance
[02:05:00] Writing the book: Shatterproof
[02:25:15] "To be able to look at my story as something beautiful"
[02:46:13] Final words: "Keep turning the page and keep writing the next chapter"



LINKS & RESOURCES
Shatterproof (Book by Lauren Sisler): https://www.amazon.com/Shatterproof-Overcame-Shame-Losing-Parents/dp/1962802078
Official Website: https://www.laurensisler.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/LaurenSisler
X (Twitter): https://www.twitter.com/LaurenSisler
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurensisler
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LaurenSisler
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LaurenSisler
Shatterproof Bracelet Collection: https://www.laurensisler.com/my-bracelets
Living on Incline: https://livingonincline.com/

DONATION / SUPPORT
Not mentioned in transcript.

CALL TO ACTION
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Living on Incline is proudly sponsored by Recovery Alive, a Christ-centered recovery program helping people find hope, healing, and purpose through authentic community and biblical transformation.

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SPEAKER_02

Ten years that I refused to look at the death certificate and the toxicology reports. I was fearful of what was going to be there. I was fearful that now I would have to accept it as truth instead of running with my own little sugar-coated story, which I did for many, many, many, many years.

SPEAKER_00

I uh could not be more excited to have this incredible Emmy winning. Sports, incredible, just everything amazing woman, Lauren Sisler.

SPEAKER_02

I put the reporter hat on, then I put the producer hat on.

SPEAKER_00

Won an Emmy. You've you've interviewed Nick Saban and Charles Barclay and all these just top of their game folks.

SPEAKER_02

The information that I had to go off of, uh basically three typed up paragraphs from a police report. My parents were addicts and that they died of overdose. Because now suddenly they're wearing a label that society has created for them. And I I just I couldn't go there.

SPEAKER_00

It is a monster of denial that you understandably are going, like, I got I've got to keep this story in order to keep my sanity. This story has to be what I create it to be, or I will lose my mind, the way people look at me, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

I could not let my parents wear the label because society tells us what addicts are and who they are and who they define. My parents aren't any of those things, right? They're educated, they're loving, they're compassionate, like they they they they participate in life. You know, they're good people. As as I fall in love with my story, there are things that I don't love about my story, things that I'd rather just light it on fire and throw it away.

SPEAKER_00

Fall in love with your story, especially when it's so full of brokenness and pain and tragedy.

SPEAKER_02

To be able to look at my story as something beautiful, even through all the broken pieces. Yeah. I have found so much freedom.

SPEAKER_00

Shatterproof is a book that everybody needs to read because it's just uh so inspiring.

SPEAKER_01

Keep turning the page and keep writing the next chapter, and that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00

Hey, life is very difficult sometimes. You could be going through relationship problems, you could be having issues at work, you could be struggling with an addiction, depression, anxiety. Um, there are all kinds of reasons why we struggle. And there aren't a lot of resources out there at times when we need immediate help. Yes, there are therapists, yes, there are psychiatrists, but sometimes those waiting lists are long, and just to reach out to somebody, it can be overwhelming. And so I want to recommend to Recovery Alive. Recovery Alive is this faith-based program that you can immediately engage with a community of people who are going to love you and walk you through your struggle. One of the first things you want to do if you want to get involved in this program is get a hold of the Recovery Alive handbook. You can work on this handbook one-on-one with one safe and supportive person. Or you could get online, uh, recoveryalive.com and get into some of our communities. We have groups of gender-specific recovery 12-step processes that you can walk through with safe and supportive people, connect to those folks. Or maybe you're somebody who is trying to get out of a difficult situation, whether you've come out of a rehabilitation uh clinic or we have folks who are coming out of jails and prisons, we have recovery alive homes, safe transition homes. We have all kinds of programming to help you. But if you're watching this or listening to Living on Incline, connect with Recovery Alive. Get a hold of this book, get a hold of maybe one safe and supportive person. Check out our online programming and get the help that you need and get it today. You don't have to suffer alone. Hey guys, John Eklund here, living on Incline Podcast. Hit subscribe, like, share, all the buttons, please do that. I uh could not be more excited to have this incredible Emmy winning sports, incredible, just everything amazing woman, Lauren Sisler. Uh, thank you. Thank you for being here. She is so kind to be on this. And uh, you've already made some suggestions about our podcast to rename it. I think we're talking we're talking about changing the name. And that is Fancy Pants Podcast. I think I think we're on to something.

SPEAKER_02

We are on to something. I'm over here redecorating my backdrop, doing all the things, and we're just like doing this together. This is like straight teamwork right here. So if I can bring any more ideas to the podcast, hit me up.

SPEAKER_00

You know, yeah. You should be like a consultant for this kind of thing. You know, it's it's you've got some great ideas.

SPEAKER_02

And and she arranged I put the reporter hat on, then I put the producer hat on, you know, I do I do wear a few different hats.

SPEAKER_00

And an interior decorator, spend some time with the background of of with with the with the picture.

SPEAKER_02

I don't claim to be good at that.

SPEAKER_00

And then there was some right away, there's some some blame of the husband. Uh maybe we need to talk about that too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, I have got this fancy microphone that has a USB cable and everything's gone to the USB C and I had to have the dongle and the things to plug into the computer, and you know, that uh he he hijacked it from me last week to work on a project.

SPEAKER_00

So just to frustrate you, probably.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I uh, you know, I went running downstairs and was like, where is that thing? But I did not yell and scream. I was very calm.

SPEAKER_00

Can we can we verify that? Can we ask? It's John, right? Can we talk to John?

SPEAKER_02

John John, we just uh he is not at the house. The only the only other living creature at my house right now, my son's at school and my dog is laying right here, my little Magnolia Maggie. Uh she's fast asleep. So, you know, we'll have to consult her later on, I guess.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Lauren, I've got a bazillion questions for you after reading your book, hearing about your story, um, and what you do with ESPN, some of the incredible opportunities that you've had to have conversations with some of my heroes being uh a part of something I'm very passionate about, um uh overcoming a lot of the uh addiction stereotypes, pushing into your vulnerability. And I, man, I'm I'm kind of like, I don't even know where to start, but I do want to start um with uh the vulnerability that you show in pretty much everything that you do. Shatterproof is a book that everybody needs to read because it's just uh so inspiring when somebody tells their story, and you have a great saying about stories. What what is that saying that you um uh it's really part of kind of your language about people's stories?

SPEAKER_02

Fall in love with your story. That has become my mantra in life, and let me tell you, it has been a journey to get there, to learn to fall in love with my story, and uh it is still a work in progress because life comes at you hard. And uh, you know, as as I fall in love with my story, there are things that I don't love about my story, things that I'd rather just light it on fire and throw it away. Um, but it uh, you know, it it it it is turning the page every single day and having the courage to keep turning the page and keep writing the next chapter, and that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I remember reading that and saying uh as a as a therapist, I thought, you know, we say a lot, uh, it's important to love yourself. It's important to, you know, self-care and all that stuff. But this other piece to say, don't just love yourself, but love your story. I think that's um a hard thing for people to do. It's hard enough to just if you've struggled with the way you feel about yourself, self-image, or just you know, look in the mirror, you don't like what you see. But then to fall in love with your story, especially when it's so full of brokenness and pain and tragedy, why is that so important for people, even if it's a really rough uh start to it, or you know, throughout the whole thing, it's just even when people make bad decisions and all that, why is it important to fall in love with uh your story? Not just yourself, but your story.

SPEAKER_02

For me, I think uh this idea of falling in love with my story and and and encouraging others to do the same, you know, really falls on this idea of finding freedom. Because I feel like we get so trapped by the shame of our circumstances, uh, the disappointments, the failures, the what-ifs, the what-ifs all day long. And we live in this this continuum, this turnstile of the what-ifs. And if I would have done this differently, if I would have said this, if I would have made this choice, if this wouldn't have happened to me, then what? And so a lot of it is really finding ourselves in that mindset and the importance of if I can just learn to love my story, lean into it exactly the way it is, and use it as strength, as a catalyst. Um, I think what comes with that are two things, uh, freedom and I think gratitude. And those are two things that I believe um we really have to be intentional with. And, you know, gratitude doesn't just show up on our doorstep and say, hey, I'm here, I'm I'm along for the ride. Like we have to be intentional. We have to, we have to grab gratitude, right? We have to acknowledge gratitude, we have to be intent with it. And I think the same thing comes with that freedom because I envision this these shackles of shame that I carried for so many years as we get into my story. Um just the shame of of what I went through, the tragedy, and how to overcome all that. And to be able to look at my story as something beautiful, even through all the broken pieces. I have found so much freedom. And when I've found that freedom, there's so many people that are that are locked in a prison because of their shame that I just want to like give them that same freedom. And I'm like, here, just please like unbox this. Take it as a gift, the gift that it is.

SPEAKER_00

So this ESPN sideline reporter who does this sideline shimmy, the the significance of that for me is, which I just love, the significance of that again is to your vulnerability. I want to stay on this vulnerability kick, is that you said that the reason why you started doing that sideline shimmy was not what people would imagine. It's because you sh you've kind of got that uh nervousness and that anxiety, and it kind of calmed you down. And again, like you could be like, I just started it because it was cool and people like to dance, but you like again, just allow yourself to be vulnerable, be like, I get pretty nervous before an interview. Am I saying that right?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And and I love unpacking this, especially with the minds like you who uh, you know, you you you you unpack people's brains for a living, right? And um I love that. What'd you say?

SPEAKER_00

That's a good way to put it. Unpack people's brains. That's another podcast name. Man, we got a lot of ideas coming. Unpacking brains.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Yes. You you you you you have you have that title and you and you wear it well. Because here's the thing, and I I don't think I could ever name it because in in a former life, we we've we've we've talked about all the the things that uh, you know, interior decorator over here, which I'm not, um, far from it. But I also used to be a DJ. So music, dancing, like get it on the ones and twos, love, love, love. Just this idea of listening to music, new, old, like I mean, every genre you can think of. You said 90s hip hop. 90s hip hop is your thing.

SPEAKER_00

Who who's the I keep interrupting you, but who's your who's your 90s hip hop go to? Who's who's the icon?

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, it's it's funny because you say like icon, it's like so hard for me to maybe pinpoint one.

SPEAKER_03

Right. There's a lot in the right.

SPEAKER_02

I tend to go like, you know, like tag team. Um, you know, I go back to like the the the womb there it is. Um and then and then even like the early 2000s, like juvenile, like, you know, back that thing up, Nelly, country grammar, like all that old school stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Solomon, you better have some of that music playing like during this, like during this clip. Oh yeah, I will. Don't worry. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

No, I mean you've got all the assets. I love that. Um, you know, but it it's just uh, you know, kind of going back to uh it just takes me back to like my childhood and you know, the things that I grew up on. And I don't know. It's one of those things I I struggle getting out of like getting out of the nostalgia of life. Um, you know, when MTV was a thing and you know uh life was a lot different back then.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_02

Um yeah, so the sideline shimmy, we're we're we're on the turn, the topic of the sideline shimmy, and I will tell you the sideline shimmy when I'm in the stadium speaking of music, you know, there are some stadiums that I go to that I'm just like murper, like get a DJ, get someone that can play the music, get the iPod off the loudspeakers, and let's go. And I said iPod because there are some people that are still living in the ice age. I wasn't gonna say anything.

SPEAKER_00

iPod, that's uh yeah, that's a throwback.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, with the old click wheel and everything. I mean, that was a thing, right? Yeah, get like and I'm just like, come on.

SPEAKER_00

My kids actually want those now, and they wear like the wired headphones, like they they like that's their nostalgia.

SPEAKER_02

It's like that's their that's all we're your kids, huh?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I got four daughters. Pray for me, yeah. And uh so 18, uh, 22, 25, and 27. And my 18 and 20 uh earlier 20s, they they do that, like the wired headphones. And I was like, what the heck is that about? And they're like, it's just we just want to get back to the same thing. You want to get back to our nostalgic early childhood stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02

For us it was like I actually like that. But you know, you see everybody now with the the the headphones and the bling bling and uh you know, let's cancel out all the noise, you know, right? And it's like, hold on a sec. Um that's good. I like that. So it's you know, it's funny when I'm in this when when I'm in the stadium, I it's funny because I'm like thinking about some of this music that we listen to. And you know, a lot of times they're playing music that suits the players during warmups, and then as the fans start to roll in, they start to roll out some different music. But I'm always like, man, like just get me in the get me a DJ booth and let me get in there and play some music.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I love that because I played Division II football, but I remember like having that That's something having that that track plan and and just man, I had to get jacked up because I get like sick, like I want to throw up before a football game, you know, and then and then I get that music going and get out there and the warm-ups. I watch like Virginia, I think it's Virginia Tech that does enter Sandman before they start. And I'm like, I want to I want to go through the TV, like I want to run through a wall.

SPEAKER_02

And so I could that's entrance in college football, in my opinion. I'm a little biased because I am from Virginia, but it it is I get I get news from thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00

Every time, every time I'll go and walk I'll go like on YouTube just just to watch it, just if I want to get jacked up. It is crazy. That's another clip, Solomon. We need that inner salmon by uh Virginia Tech Center. But to think like that's how you get to a place where you can calm yourself down, and um, but just to say that out loud, to say, you know, I I get nervous before you know somebody on your level who you've won an Emmy, you've you've interviewed Nick Saban and Charles Barclay and all all these in just top of their game folks. And you still do you still get nervous? Is it still there?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it's still there, absolutely. And it kind of depends on the setting itself. Um, ironically, uh and it it's crazy because like before a game, sometimes we'll be asked to interview a coach uh the day before, and we might be standing in like you know, their trophy room, and it's literally just me, the camera guy, and the coach, you know, their SID, their sports information guy, and it's the four of us. And sometimes I am more nervous in that setting because it's like it's quiet, it's just one-on-one. It's just it's one-on-one, right? And I'm literally asking like two or three questions, but it's so quiet, it's just like you can hear like a pin drop, and I'm like, uh, but then on game day, when I've got all the screaming fans, people are everywhere, more distractions, everything is everywhere. I I I feel like those nerves start to evaporate a little bit more in those, you know, in those, in those interview settings. But when you talk about the whole idea of the sideline shimmy and the dancing, um, really, you know, it backdates to 2019 is actually when it like was born. Because I used to dance around, like, I didn't realize that from the time we walk into the stadium, which is usually about three hours before kickoff, until like we go live, the cameras are always rolling. So, fans out there just know that there are usually about eight to ten cameras out there watching everything that's happening. So just know that you can't get away with anything. Okay. And so we are always live essentially, but I would dance around just kind of like an idiot on camera. We'd be rehearsing or open and you know, whatever. And I mean, just dancing totally free. And didn't realize that like they were always rolling. And so uh uh one day, uh El Habel is her name, her name's Elle. She sent me this video. She said, Hey, I gotta send this to you. We've been recording you like this entire season. And I'm like, no way. And so then I just posted it as you know, a funny like gag thing on on social media, and it just kind of stuck. But what I didn't realize, and I didn't name it at the time in 2019 until I started really digging a little bit deeper. I got back into therapy, um, you know, with my therapist. And she said, You do realize like that's something, and that's not just you dancing, that's not former DJ Lawrence system coming out. That's like you're grounding yourself.

SPEAKER_03

And I was like, that's it.

SPEAKER_02

And it's like the redistribution of my nerves. It doesn't take the nerves away, right? And it's when I'm, you know, if I'm going out on a stage to speak, if I'm getting in front of a team of 12 people, my heart is racing. And I'm like, I know what I want to say, I'm excited to be here, but also my adrenaline is just like Oh yeah, has to be. And I'm like, how do I put this back in? Like, what do I do with this? And so she said, just like, and and and I found that as it redistributed, it was like pushing that energy through my toes, and like it was able so that the the nervousness is still there. And I love that because hey, it's game day, baby. Right, right. And I and I want to compete, I want to perform. Right. If you don't have adrenaline when you perform, then what are you out there doing?

SPEAKER_00

It means you're passionate, it means you care.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, I love that. And I'm sure as a therapist, you probably love that too. I'd like to unpack because I think some people, you know, I I I've always said I want people to find their version of the sideline shimmy. And, you know, I would love to to to come up with a handful of things that other folks that, you know, maybe they don't love to dance and maybe, you know, whatever. But coming up with those things, whether you're about to go into a board meeting, whether you're about to have a tough conversation with a family member, you know, there's so many things that just create nerves. And how do we ground ourselves in that? So we need to we need to come up with some some tips and and tools for people to find their version of a sideline shimmy. What is that? That's your next book. That's your next book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There it is. There's your next book.

SPEAKER_02

There it is. I kind of you're throwing ideas at me.

SPEAKER_00

See, I kind of want to I wish that like every morning I could I could run out into life to enter Sandman. Like go through like if somebody just hold up one of those like things I could run through, those big pieces of paper that they have at high school things, and just yeah, just start every day like the rock, boom, every time.

SPEAKER_02

You just put like a thing above your door in your bedroom and tap the rock. You just play it. Have your alarm go off to enter Sandman every morning. You get up, you go tap the rock, boom, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00

I do have the Notre Dame sign on my when I wake up, play like a champion today is the first one of the first things I see when I wake up. So I do have something. I'm a big Notre Dame fan. Okay. Yeah. I don't know how you feel about that. I don't know how you feel about that.

SPEAKER_02

That is perfect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So we're on to something here.

SPEAKER_00

I uh I want to ask one more specific, just because I'm how many times I'm gonna be able to actually talk to somebody who's an ESPN reporter. But I I have this thought about something recently that happened. Just again, just kind of pick your brain on this. The uh Justin Herbert, uh Chargers quarterback. Yep. He I think it was him. He's he's having a a moment on the field, and then an interviewer comes up to him. I think it was ESP. Person who comes up to him and she's trying to get um she's trying to get some comment from him and he's like, I want to celebrate with my teammates. Is that was it was it him? I think it was him. Do you remember this at all?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm not sure the specific moment, but I know, I know where you're coming from because it does happen a lot. Because I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00

How do you push through that? Because it was like it's like he was really annoyed with her, but but it's like it, and there was a lot of comments about like, well, this is her job, and they know they're supposed to do that. So have you been in that position where you're just like, just I'm just trying to do my job, and people can be a little people, are usually very nice, but I'm sure at times it's they're not so nice. Is that do you get that at times where it's you have to push through and get the job done? Is that hard?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. Well, there is a specific example in my book, Shatterproof, that you might recall going to an SEC school in which I had a a coach, and and and I'll name it because it's it's not necessarily a bad thing, but Jimbo Fisher was the Texas AM coach at the time, and he comes running off the field. Now, this was during uh COVID, uh, you know, post-COVID. We were still kind of navigating through COVID. So we were doing these weird interviews already, yeah. Where I'm like a million miles away. He's got a headset on. It was just awkward. But I will say, coaches are very anxious to get in the locker room, right? Like they got to get in there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

They get 20 minutes to go in there and talk to their team and do what they got to do and talk to their coaches and break things down and come up with a second half game plan. So I get it. So I am standing there waiting to do my job, which is to get an interview with Jimbo Fisher, one, two questions, 30, 45 seconds, boom, that's it. But I have to wait till my producer in my ear says, all right, go. And so I'm waiting and I'm waiting. They're not ready, they're trying to get reset. There's some stuff going on in the control room. And Jimbo Fisher, he starts doing this to me, like giving me the woo-woo, right? And so I start panicking, like internally. I'm just like, oh, like, what do I do? Oh, I can feel it.

SPEAKER_00

I can feel it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, I can I can feel it. Yeah. And so I when I asked the question, I totally flub it up. I said fourth quarter instead of second quarter, like just like it just came out. And I remember just boiling afterwards because you know, when I make a mistake, like I, you know, I laughed it off, I think at the time, I just kind of laugh and second quarter. But I was very frustrated. And I felt it because I felt his frustration of like, come on, come on, we gotta go, we gotta go. And then all of a sudden I feel like I'm taking up his time, I'm annoying him. Now I feel annoyed, like everybody's annoyed, everybody's annoyed. So it that can be very challenging when you experience that. And I think that, you know, I want to celebrate and I want to bring that celebration to the people that are at home watching, but at the same time, you know, I can see an anxiousness. And then there's some coaches that win by 50 and they still have a thousand execution items they want to talk about, you know. Well, that was a good win, but you know what? We didn't do this, this, this, and this. And I'm like, come on, buddy, can we can we get back to the positive side of things? Like, you know, celebrate, which can be challenging. Nick Savan was known for that. Yes, known for that.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. Well, you I think in the same that same uh story, I think then you went back to another coach who said almost the opposite, who who took the time to say, you're really good at your job. Uh that kind of balances, am I right? It balances things out.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, that was the exact same story, and that's Sam Pittman, who, by the way, Sam Pittman was the Arkansas head coach. Um you know, he just he just got got got let go um after this past season or you know, middle of the way. And it's interesting because I took, well, first of all, he probably didn't know this, but what a darn good recruiting tool because that happened, and then the ripple effect happens because he says that to me, and then I took that story and I have told it at a thousand quarterback clubs in front of a thousand fans here in Alabama, different, different places like, wow, we love Sam Pittman. And it's crazy because I actually was in Arkansas for a speaking event just a couple months ago, and I had learned that he was still living in Arkansas in in like the hot springs area. And I I literally had dinner with one of his friends, like somebody that he's become friends with. And I said, you know, I'm speaking tomorrow at this event, such a long shot, but y'all, y'all ought to come. And I was like, he ain't gonna come. The next morning I wake up to a text. They said, Hey, we want to come. And so they show up, and I was like, and you know, he and I have have formed this bond, you know, over really this moment that he that he created for me and that rested on my heart that I now have given and paid forward to other people in this idea of gratitude, right? We talk about gratitude, and I think that showed up. And what was so cool about that experience, full circle, because he gets to come, he hears me speak. I end up telling that story, obviously, there because I I I wanted, I of course put him on the spot a little bit, but uh wanted to tell that story. But when you you see how the fans and the people, because we're in Arkansas, everybody loves football there, right? They saw Sam Pittman there and they were just like so enamored by the fact that like Sam Pittman is here at our event. It was an Arkansas Mine Safety Conference, you know, a lot of hardworking blue-collar men and women that just get after it and and lay their lives on the line every day, you know, for for the infrastructure of our communities. And uh it was just so cool to like even just see and how down to earth he was. And like, you know, he some guy walks by him in the hallway and he points at him and he says, Men, he's like, What kind of workout plan are you on, my man? You are looking good. Look at that. You're kind of like he he's you know, he's just there as one of the good old boys. And I think that is what's so cool because even when you're, and I think this is such a lesson, John. Um, because at the end of the day, we would all love to go out waving the, you know, hoisting the national championship trophy, right? When our when our careers are done wherever it's at, you know, we always want to end on a good note, end on a positive note, do something so memorable that that that's like how we end it all. Right. We thought Nick Saban was gonna go out on a high note like that and end it hoisting the national championship trophy, and he didn't, right? Because he stepped away from the sport when he knew it was time, when he knew his love for the game and the game has shifted because of NIL and all the other things. He steps out of that, right? And I think that um it never the majority of the time you don't go out singing your swan song, that's right, you know, waving the victory flag. A lot of times things happen. You get older, you age, health issues, whatever it is, you don't always get that opportunity. Um, but when you like Sam Pittman, uh your career at a school comes to an end. And I don't imagine, I don't think he's gonna go back into coaching anytime soon, if ever. He he's loving life right now. Um but I I I love that he can come back home to Arkansas and still be loved by so many people, even though he he they said cut the cord, you're gone. And people are like, oh, you know, get him out of here. We need a new coach that's gonna win us football games. Yet he is such a beloved person. Don't you want that to be your legacy? Yes, wins are awesome, yes, amazing. But at the end of the day, like, what are people gonna remember you for? And I think that's the thing that we really have to lean into when we think about our legacy.

SPEAKER_00

Recovering marriage is a game changer if you want to either save your marriage or simply strengthen it. If you want to take your marriage from good to great, or if your marriage is in real trouble, either way, recovering marriage can be extremely beneficial. One of the ways that you can use this resource, recovering marriage, is you can get involved in our online recovering marriage groups. You can plug into those groups at recoveryalive.com. Also, if your church wants to get a group started, you can get a hold of this book and our leadership material of how to run a recovering marriage group in your church. These groups take about 14 to 16 weeks. They're based on the 12 commitments of recovering marriage. And I'm telling you, so far, everything we've heard about these things is we are seeing marriages saved. We're seeing divorce papers being torn up, we're seeing recommitments, vow renewals. It's been absolutely epic what we've seen happen as people work through the 12 commitments of recovering marriage. We also are having weekend intensives. If your church is interested in having a full day intensive of recovering marriage, for us to come in and lead an entire day of working through the 12 commitments. We'd love to come to your church and your community and run one of those intensives. You can get all of this information at recoverylive.com. You can go on uh Amazon and get this book as well if you just want to research it a little bit. The 12 commitments of recovering marriage are changing lives. Check it out today. I remember speaking of Saban, I remember him talking about when things kind of switched for him, where it was just win champions, win champion, uh win championships, and all that. And it got to be like build men. And then it went into the process. But I think there was kind of that moment where it's like these players are they are the thing that I have to pay attention to and and pour into is building men. I mean, these are kids, you know, and and more than any any time in sports, we're just seeing these 18-year-olds put in these positions of, you know, we'd see the LeBrons, Kevin Garnett's, who are 18 and coming into the NBA, but now all these kids in in Division I, whatever, are getting paid. And so it's it that's a tough thing, you know. And I so I think like, yeah, that that building men, but then then he got into process, and and this is my segue into um your your childhood and and the work that you're doing um to to speak into this addiction crisis that we have. Um just uh we don't know exactly what's happening with Tiger, but it doesn't it looks like addiction. I mean, it's it has uh all the all the signs are there, you know. So I'm thinking about process and how Saban talks about it's not about winning even the game, it's about winning the next play. You play you know that player that's right across from you and and just executing that play, and everything else will take care of itself, just execute that next play. And and I always thought that was just genius and and brilliant, and and it and it has um, I'm a big 12-step guy with recovery. A lot of the stuff we do with recovery live is is about the 12-steps. And one of the sayings we have is do the next right thing. Just do the next right thing. It's one step at a time, one day at a time, right? And so um I'm just wondering about the process for you. Is that when you think about grieving, you've had to grieve, uh working through um some things that you didn't uh have any idea, like almost like my childhood isn't what I thought it was. Um processing through even the way you felt about yourself and um the the person that you had to be, you know, post your parents passing away, and all of that had to have been a process. Did it look a little bit like that when you started to work into your healing and and your your recovery? What was it kind of just like how much was it a day at a time and a moment at a time for you?

SPEAKER_02

Oh man, that's that's so good. And and you know, I want to I want to preface it by saying this. There's there's um, you know, there's just this idea of kind of like life and and how we are kind kind of called into, you know, who we become, who we're becoming, what we do, how we serve others. And um, you know, never in a million years did I think that I would be sitting here talking about the topics that I'm talking about, right? Like I even sports, like actually I I was a gymnast my whole life, right? Gymnastics was my sport. Um, so I was an athlete, I grew up around sports, love sports, but I actually wanted to be a sports doctor. So uh this whole idea of going into medicine, um, I wanna wanted to be an orthopedic doctor, you know, uh that that was the side I wanted to go into. But life has taken such a turn for me. And I think that we all grow up with these dreams, with these aspirations, and we have these this vision for our lives, you know, whether that's you know, a certain career, walking down the aisle, marrying, you know, uh, our forever and having children and the white picket fence. And I'll be honest with you, I think that my family, and in a lot of ways, I say this about my mom. I think she had that all-American dream of the white picket fence. And that's that's that was her focus in life when growing up, you know. My brother and I, um, my brother Alan and I, we grew up uh uh in Roanoke, Virginia with my mom and my dad. And uh, you know, we were we were living that American dream, you know, the middle class family that was just, you know, getting by, doing what we needed to, playing sports, like always involved in activities.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And my mom was was that white pick and fence mom where she, you know, was gonna take care of her kids, get us to sports, get us where we needed to go. Love on us was home to cook us dinner, to make sure everything was packed, lunches were ready to go.

SPEAKER_00

I want to interrupt you because I've read like The Glass Castle. Um Jeanette McCurdy's new book, uh, not new, more recent book, um I'm glad my mom is dead, like talking about her past and being involved with Nickelodeon and all this crazy stuff, iCarly. And read books like that, and these stories are like nightmarish growing up, uh terrible circumstances. But your book, you're very clear, and by the way, everybody needs to buy this book. Please, it's just a it's it's a great read. It's very inspiring. But the um the thought I had was like, where where is the broken home? Where is the terrible childhood upbringing? And you really, all the way through it, you're saying like I had a pretty good childhood. I've loved they my family loved me and they loved each other. Am I saying that right? It just feels like it was like there isn't that like, oh my gosh, this horrible upbringing. It was it was pretty special. It sounded really special.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I and I appreciate that being able to to shed light on it because it is an important piece to the story. Um, and this is not to say, like, oh, everything was picture perfect. At the end of the day, nothing is. And looking back, I'm like, oh, like you think your family's dysfunctional. Wait till you hear about my family. Right, right. Like that, everybody does that, you know, and I think what my childhood looked like in a lot of ways, um, you know, was just uh living the American dream, doing everything we could to uh, you know, be um, you know, involved, obviously, like as I said, with the sports and and went to church on Sundays and, you know, were part of the community and and just had had had uh you know the the the neighborhood riding the bikes and and and uh you know just doing all the things that kids get to do as uh you know, that kid you hope kids get to do, that I hope my son gets to do, um, even though with the way things are nowadays, it's like the kids riding bikes around the neighborhood doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm like, uh-uh, we ain't gonna we're not gonna let it happen.

SPEAKER_02

We gotta bring it back.

SPEAKER_00

Bubble wrap them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, we gotta bring it back. But I think the the one thing that um, you know, it's very easy to portray that. And I think in my little mind, everything was that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because my parents did such a good job of of of making sure that we were loved, that we were supported, that we were applauded in our successes, that we were lifted when things were hard. Um, you know, but yeah, for the most part, my upbringing was was very positive. However, I will say this um, as I mentioned, my parents did a great job of of having that outward appearance, you know. But my dad did struggle with alcoholism growing up. And that was uh a barrier at times. That was um a challenge at times, and it was something he managed. He w worked at the VA. So he would um, you know, as a veteran himself, would go to see his counselors, would go to AA meetings. Um but then unfortunately, you know, his his relapses would occur. And, you know, I actually did some digging back when um, you know, I've been unpacking all of this, you know, obviously and writing my book, and found some medical records and some things that were my dad's, uh, from where he would go visit his uh, you know, counselor, psychologist at the VA. And when a lot of his his alcoholism started to really manifest. And basically in in sort of the the um, you know, conversations, it was that my dad uh just could not stop drinking, and he wanted more than anything to be able to stop drinking so that he could be with his family, be with his wife, be with his kids, and that became such a challenge for him. And so, you know, it was something that he worked through. But here's what would happen, and John, you could probably speak to this, but basically, um, you know, life would be good, things would be great, and then all of a sudden uh he would go on a weekend bender and make poor decisions, spend money that wasn't there, you know. Um, and all of a sudden we were kind of like in, you know, taking 10 steps backwards. But as a five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10-year-old, like I'm not privy to that. I just would hear my mom say, Hey, you need to go back to your meetings. I would maybe hear them arguing in the other room. I knew when my dad had been drinking. Yeah, it was something I was aware of. I could tell his personality shifted. Um, but in those, in those moments, I literally compartmentalized it, went and played, did my thing, kind of stayed, kept my distance. And then two days later, things would be fine. He'd be back to normal, he'd be apologetic, and life is good. We're back to, we're back to, we're back to good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And it was just easy for me to hold on to the good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it didn't, it, yeah. Well, and it just seemed like there was a lot of love, a lot of connection. Uh, you know, we're we hear about attachment issues and like yeah, even in therapy, I'll be like, tell me a time when um your parents comforted you, and people will be like, I got nothing. And it feels like you didn't have you had like that connection, you had that that love. You didn't didn't seem like there was a lot of like chaos in the home, even with the with the drinking, it was something that you kind of knew was happening, but it wasn't like you know, somebody pushing somebody down the stairs. And it but it shows how well a family can hide some of those things that are going on. The other thing I thought was so good, and this is something we don't talk enough about, is this codependency thing, is I was really drawn to the story of when you got grounded and how quickly you ended up back in the pool. And that and I was just looking for this line in the book. You said love without boundaries would be the downfall of our family. And I about like I got emotional reading that because that is like that's just as problematic as when there's not that um those those limits that are put in place to say you can't do this anymore, or you if you continue to do this, this is what I'm gonna do. There's just kind of this lack of boundaries going on, a lot of enabling happening. I think with your your aunt and your extended family. Um, can you speak to that a little bit? Uh tell us about the grounding story, because I think it's it's cute, but it's also like it was a symptom of what was going on. Am I am I right about that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No, and I love hearing that from your perspective because you know, so many people give feedback on like different parts of the book and things that resonated with them. And and it and it's hard to know like what to include, what not to include, what matters, what doesn't matter. And I think that's really the cool part of this process. And I'm so glad that that piece really tied things together because you're absolutely right. And it's something I'm even unpacking now with my therapist, because let's be real, the things that we experience and go through, like we carry them with us our entire lives. And now in my marriage, the way I communicate, the way I parent, all those things are so important. And that piece of it's interesting because the boundary thing is actually something we we most recently talked about. And so just the quick gist of the story is that um I was far from perfect, right? Like, come on, you have four girls, you know. Like people say raising girls can be a challenge. I don't know yet because I have a boy, but just a little bit. Uh-huh.

unknown

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. You've got some experience over there, John. So, you know, I'm told that it comes with its challenges, certainly. And I and I don't doubt it because guess what? I was a girl, I was a brat. I did the things, all the things. Um, you know, but then also put on the angel wings, right? I could just flip that switch real quick. But this particular story was, you know, we were we were coming home and we were stopping at this Chinese buffet, and my parents said sit in the car because the way they like weighed it out, measured it, like they they were only gonna pay for the two buffets, right? And so um they said, just sit in the car, and and I just didn't listen. I went in there, I skipped in there, like, oh, whatever. And my parents were like, we told you to sit in the car, right? And I just didn't listen. So then we get home, and um, you know, my parents were obviously were were were mad, you know, about that initially. But then, you know, my brother comes home and he wants to find some tools because he's building some big fort by the pool. Um, and he my dad was like frustrated. And so this was like a domino effect. And my brother was like tinkering with a bunch of stuff, and then they got into it, and somehow my brother put his hand through the uh the garage window instead of the you know boy temper, you know, probably just meant to like punch it, you know, just like man, you know, whatever, sticks his hand through it, cuts open his hand. So now we're going to the ER. At this point, my parents are furious. Like, what is going on? You guys, you're grounded. So, like I get grounded, and this was like, whoa, like I never get grounded, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And it was just this snowball effect. And I remember while my brother was there getting stitched up, and you know, it was nothing major, but he, you know, had to get a few stitches and whatever. And we are walking, we're doing laps in the parking lot around the hospital, like getting some fresh air. And my dad was like ready to just like, you know, the little bit of hair he had left, ready to pull it out because I would not let it go. Dad, dad, I can't believe you're grounding me. I didn't do anything wrong. Dad, dad, please, I just, uh, I just don't want to, please don't ground me. Like, I didn't do anything wrong. I promise I won't do it again, you know? And finally he's just like, Lauren, okay, I'm over it. And literally, like two hours after we get home, I am at the pool. I am no longer grounded. My dad was fed up, like with listening to me. He's like, just go, go to the pool, get out of my hair, like I'm done. Right. And so, where was the lesson in all of that? You know, at that point, it was like this idea that now I can basically talk my way in or out of anything. And are there going to be consequences? And I think that while it seems so minute, like that kind of it just shows you like that what little bit can magnify. And then all of a sudden it's just like whoop.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So is your your parents are experiencing some of that same type of enabling where there's some people who are in your life, adults in your life, who are seeing your parents struggle financially to a great extent and struggle with, you know, there's something going on that just feels off. But those family members are like, we love these folks. How do we how do we intervene? How do we say no? They've got kids, how do we, you know, uh have a have a moment where there's some conflict, some planned conflict, where you're like, I'm gonna confront this, because that's a very hard thing to do. Um, but if, and again, this isn't about blame or anything, but if those family members maybe pushed a little harder and said, we're gonna cut you off, or um something might have been a little bit different if if so much enabling hadn't hadn't been happening. Um and I and I so that's what struck me is it's just this pattern throughout the family of going, we we loved maybe to the point where it got a little bit toxic, what we call like codependent enabling. And uh and it was pretty pervasive throughout. Um I think your your aunt, an incredible, per incredible human being. And how do you intervene when you're seeing this stuff happen when kids are involved? What a tough spot for your for your extended family to be in. Um at some point though, it did get to the place where where some intervention was attempted, some some point in time where like, man, this is this is getting really bad financially. Um like when did when did your extended family start to go like we need to like we need to intervene, we need to really um get involved in this to a level that's it's about to get kind of uncomfortable. And what was happening for that to to need to happen?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because and and I know this now as an as a grown adult, you know, we we kind of we're living our lives, right? And sometimes the things that are right in front of us we don't see because we're consumed in the day-to-day and the busyness and all the things. And you know, I think in a lot of ways, my aunt, my mom's sister, my auntie Linda's, who I, who I grew up calling her always, and she still is, um her and my mom are really close. She's five years older than my mom, and uh, you know, extremely, extremely close. And you know, to your point, it's this kind of idea of like, well, how how do how did people not know like and address the the the issues, right? And I think sometimes I ask myself the same question, like, why did I not know more? Why did why why did I not ask more questions? But I think you get so consumed in your own life and what you're doing. Like my job and my parents always said, focus on gymnastics and schoolwork. You know, I wanted to get a job, help out, because I knew finances were a little shaky at times. And I'm like, let me go get a job. That can help. I can, you know, have my own gas money and food money and all the things. And my parents are like, no, you need to focus on these things. And I think that what happens is you get in this mindset where you're kind of on this track, that focus, focus, focus. And then I think in a lot of ways, to you said, you almost can love to a fall. You know, my auntie Linda loved my my mom, my her sister deeply, loved my dad deeply. They knew about the alcoholism, they knew some of that stuff was a little, you know, a little off point. But then when it came to the finances, my mom would often go to my grandpa, her dad, of course, um, and say, Hey, like we need help with the mortgage. But it wasn't just once, it wasn't just twice. Like he has a whole ledger of all the money that he had he had essentially loaned them that they were going to pay back. But as you know, in these cycles, a lot of times you you're never gonna get you're never gonna see it back. It's not gonna get paid back. And so then it just becomes a lot of give, give, give. But then where's the accountability on the other end?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I guess that does become the big question is you know, what conversations were happening and um how easy it is to watch this stuff happen and get into this pattern and sometimes not do the hard thing, which is like, hey, we gotta talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

And so hard. And I think your uncle had tried at one point in time to to cut him off. And um, your aunt is definitely one of the heroes of the story. I mean, just unbelievable how they've come alongside of you and and loved you and parented you after um uh the tragedy that we're gonna be talking about here in a minute. But um yeah, just to to to your point, and and uh part of uh our audience uh is a big part of what we do with Living on Incline is is have these moments where we're we're having conversations about recovery and Christ-centered 12-step stuff. And um I just want to acknowledge and and have you acknowledge the difficulty it is to watch someone you love suffer to the extent of, man, I'm I'm at the end of my rope. I need, I need, I need some finance, or we're not gonna make it. Um uh just how hard it is to say no to that. And um so I just I want to make sure your aunt is definitely one of the heroes of this, and it is it's just excruciating to watch people suffer and just be like, I'm not gonna, you know, you're cut off. You're not, you know, you're not gonna get any more help from me. It feels like, you know, you're killing them. It's like it's a very painful, painful process. And so, you know, I want to tell you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think the burden, then there's a burden that comes with it. And so, you know, putting this into perspective, and you know, I know that there's a lot to unpack here, um, you know, and some some things, and this might even be a part two, because uh, you know, I I've had other experiences with family members and and, you know, more specifically my brother, who unfortunately we lost um November of 2024. Um I'm sorry, November of 2025. And uh, you know, that was uh no, 2024. I'm sorry. I I I get it confused um because it was kind of on the heels of after I actually released Shatterproof. And so that's kind of a whole nother layer to the story. But that experience, um, yeah, and it's something that, you know, I haven't talked a lot about publicly. It, you know, a lot of people know of his passing, but you know, something that is just adds another layer to the story. But when you talk about um this this idea, and and you hate to even say burden, because you know, I I I never want my loved ones or family to be a burden. But here's the thing when, you know, and and it's not to say like, oh, I have all the money in the world, I'm just I I can just give it all away. But you know, in the instance of my aunt, my uncle, um, you know, their their stability financially was was good. And it's this idea of well, what's a hundred dollars to us?

SPEAKER_00

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02

And that's not to say that it's good.

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But the burden to me, it's like, I would rather remove this guilt by handing over the hundred dollars because it's so much easier.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, yes.

SPEAKER_02

It just alleviates that. And I think that, you know, and I experienced that a good bit with my brother when he ran into some issues where I literally would be about to step foot on the football field and he would be asking me, Hey, I really need some some help here. And instead of getting to it later, uh, hey, we'll talk about it, let's talk through this, let's let's get to the root of the issue. Why are we having some of these financial issues? I would just be like, Okay, I can't think about it now. Here's$20, gotta go, bye, you know? And it was like this idea of like, I can't have this weighing on my conscience. I'm about to go do my job. I got five hours, six hours that I need to be locked in and focused. And I cannot do that unless I just release this burden. The thing is, that thing's always gonna be there and it's gonna come back and it's gonna come back and it's gonna come back. It's like a boomerang. I mean, it just it's gonna keep coming back. But in that moment, that is that's the fix. And I I think reflecting on that now as a 41-year-old that has lived life a little bit longer, because a lot of people have asked the question well, you know, your aunt and uncle, your grandparents, they were grown adults. Why didn't they step in and see more and do more? And I'm like, now I know and I understand because I've lived in it, I've been in those shoes, and I understand how easy it was to you you hear this idea of loving someone to death. And that right there, um you know, I think in a lot of ways everybody just, you know, I think my aunt is a lot, I'm a lot like my auntie in the sense, and and a lot like my mom, because her and my mom were very similar. My mom was the glue of the family, but it was always throwing out the life raft, right? Wanting to save everybody. Um and that was my auntie, you know, and I think that her and my uncle Mike stepped in and and took me in when I was 18 when my parents died, uh without even thinking about it. Like, just naturally, like, come on, like you, you know, and I was close to my auntie. She was there when I was born in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. She was over over in Cuba the day that I was born. So it's not like we didn't already have a close relationship, but she is very much the fixer, wants to fix, fix, fix. And I think I've inherited that as well to a fault sometimes. And boundaries are just so hard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, man. And I I there's a great book called Boundaries, uh, Henry uh uh Henry Cloud and Townsend. They they put that together a long time. It's just fantastic. They say um, we are, as the enablers, we are responsible and punished while they are irresponsible and rewarded. And I'm always like, oh, you know, that's a shetting to a place where you're you're not giving them the consequences, you're just allowing the c consequences of their own choices to catch up with them so they can feel the pain and and decide to change. But how hard is it, especially if you're an empath, like I can tell, and thank you again for being so vulnerable. Thank you. And and I'm so sorry about your brother, I didn't know that. Um but I can feel like the the empathy becomes so excruciating, you're relieving your own pain by relieving theirs. And so in that way, in the codependent recovery process, it's going like I almost have to see myself as being selfish because really I'm not like so much, I am worried about their pain, but their pain is causing me so much pain because of empathy that I'm like, just take the$20 so I don't have to feel this anymore. It's not just inconvenience, it's not just, you know, you're driving me crazy. It's going like, I hate to watch you suffer. And they go, thank you. You are you're you're always there for me. And you're like, oh, I am, aren't I? You know, it kind of feels good, you know. I get to be the rescuer. So that's a tough, it's a tough one, Lauren. That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02

It is tough. It is, it is very tough. And I I think it goes back, and you you you talk about like the boundaries, and I think in so many ways, um and I am living that right now as a mom. My husband is much better a disciplinarian than me. Um, you know, I remember not too long ago, my son does gymnastics and it's a 45-minute class. And I remember my I usually take him just because of timing and my husband, you know, is is working his business and everything. So he's kind of coming home. Uh, you know, so I take him, but sometimes, you know, he'll he'll take him. And it's funny because I was out doing something and I get a he calls me in the middle of gymnastics and I'm like, oh no. I'm thinking, like, oh did he get hurt? Like, what's going on? And all I can hear in the my son in the backseat crying. And it was because he wasn't behaving, he wasn't listening, he was just irrational, running around like a crazy person and and and a total grump, like didn't get a nap, like all the things. And my husband basically said, Hey, you know what? You're not listening, we're going home. Like, I I in my mind, like, I don't think I could have ever done that. What a disappointment. If I if I make him go home, he's gonna be mad at me, he's gonna be upset with me, he's gonna be so disappointed, I can't do that. But my husband's like, no, we're not gonna do this. And we get home, he's crying, he's upset, you know, that he had to get taken out of gymnastics. But fast forward the next week, my son was like on his P's and Q's, listening, doing everything he knew, like participating. And I'm thinking, like, oh, so there is something to this thing, right? Like, maybe there is something to this.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so I'm learning that now because of and I and I think that we can all speak to this as we grow up. There's things that, you know, and my parents, again, in my mind, like could do no wrong. I look back now and I'm like, you know what? There was plenty of things they could have done differently, but they did the best they could. And I realize that I have to give myself that same grace, do the best I can, but reflect on some of the things that they did and maybe some of the boundaries and the discipline and the different things. Now that's to say that's not to say I'm just gonna go like opposite full board, like, you know, psycho-crazy disciplinarian over here, because that's just not in my blood, but learning that like lessons can be learned and good can come out of that. And so being and and it in and I think to your point because you talk about some families, some families are so disconnected that you know there is no discipline because they're they aren't they don't even they don't even participate in their child's life, right, life, right? Where in my parents' case, they participated very a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, very engaged. Very engaged.

SPEAKER_02

Very engaged, and yet still on the back side of that are the boundaries and the discipline and you know, some of the things that I think become now such a learning tool. And it's something that I have to, in a lot of ways, wire my way of thinking of how am I gonna handle this with Mason? Like my my when he starts crying because he wants gummy bears, you know, he loves his gummies. He says gummies, gummies, and he does this little thing and he looks so cute when he does it. I'm like, you've already had two packs today, and you can't eat all the gummies. You need protein, you need something beside gummies. But the easy thing to do is just give him the gummies because then I don't have to hear him cry, and then I'm the hero, right?

SPEAKER_00

That's it. That's it, that's the pattern, right? That is the exact pattern that we are trying to interrupt with. But it is, it's hard with kids. My gosh, that is a that hate to watch them suffer on another level, you know, paternal and maternal instincts. All right, Lauren, real quick, we're at uh one hour.

SPEAKER_02

I love all this that we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00

I've been enjoying this so much. Uh, do you have the time? Because we haven't even got to the main thing because this is just awesome. I really am having a blast. Are you okay to go the full you've got to be done at 11 30?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we got time. We got a little bit of time here. You good, we'll keep on keeping it.

SPEAKER_00

Unpack this, keep going.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right, you guys have just watched part one of our Lauren Sistler interview, and we were only scheduled to go an hour or so, but man, it it was so good, so powerful. Her uh story, so important that we ended up doing two hours uh unpacking a lot of things that uh uh Lauren herself said like she hadn't really planned to talk about. So you definitely want to tune in for part two next week. This is our very first time doing a two-part episode. And so, man, what a special, special interview this was and is. So, check out next week, next Thursday, part two of our Lauren Sistler interview. You don't want to miss it. Hey, thanks again for joining us on Living on Incline, sponsored by Recovery Live. Would you do us a favor and just hit that subscribe button, share with your friends, and again, we want to explore our full God-given potential and see what we are capable of. So, again, hit that subscribe button and thank you so much for joining us on Living on Incline.