Joint Effort PAs
We're two orthopedic surgery physician assistants discussing PA school, life as a PA, cases and topics related to orthopedics, and much more!
Joint Effort PAs
Growth, Goals & New Opportunities
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Just a little weekly life update from your favorite ortho chaos coordinators.
In this episode, we’re recapping how things have been growing on the podcast (👀 we see you guys), and outside of it!
We’re also getting into our own professional goals—where we want to grow, what we’re working toward behind the scenes, and the opportunities we’re starting to explore. Because turns out… building a career and a brand at the same time is a lot.
Tempo: 120.0
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Joint Effort PAs, where two orthopedic surgery PAs get real about life in medicine. From tips and tricks to professional growth, work-life balance, and everything in between. We're here to share what we've learned and what we're still figuring out. Let's get into it. Rolling into the next episode. We're pre-recording a little bit because one we were just too excited to talk about, um, to wait to talk about what we experienced this week. And also we both have damn it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is the first time. I mean, is it really like well? What are you doing next week in first of all?
SPEAKER_00I am going, and I hate to say it like this for anyone who loves the area. I'm going to dreaded Myrtle Beach. I dirty Myrtle. Despise Myrtle Beach. I despise it. So my kids play in a soccer tournament every year the last weekend of April. Last year we went. Okay, I'm just gonna like let you guys like a little snapshot into what happened last year. The kids want to stay at a hotel that has the whole thing, the pool and the outside thing, the lazy river. Now, this tournament is very popular because all the hotels are that, right? So you book the hotel in January for April. Fine. Um, when we got down there last year, it's a solid three and a half hours, but usually it's kind of four hours. So when we get down there, I went to check into the hotel, okay, with my daughter, who's like, are we there? Are we there? Are we there? We get there at like eight o'clock at night because let's be honest, I didn't leave until 5, 3, whatever. Um, when we get there, the computers are down for check-in. The check-in line. I did not get to the front desk till 11 p.m. Sounds like Vegas. Did not get to the front desk till 11. One of the mothers, thank God, came to take my daughter and just take her wherever. We check in and I go to my room and there's a man in my room. There's a there's a person in my room.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like you put your key card in and somebody.
SPEAKER_00So I was laying on the bed eating potato chips. Okay. So I was like, okay. So go back and I storm to the front of the line and cut in front of somebody. And I was like, uh, you did you did do this right? No, I will not go to the back of the line, right? That's like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like there's somebody in my personality.
SPEAKER_00You gave me somebody else's key. I just I've been in there for way too long. So did that, get back up to the room, and it smells like wet water, right? Yeah, it's a dehumidifier, whatever. So Myrtle Beach night. We hadn't eaten anything. So I go to Walmart to get something to eat because it was the closest I could find. So I get like a freaking apple or something. And I go back to the car, and there's someone literally sleeping in the car next to us. And my daughter was like, Myrtle beach is so great. And I was like, No, this is everything about Myrtle Beach that I hate. Um, so that was last year. So when they said this year, they're like, We're doing Myrtle again. And I was like, I'm gonna need to talk to somebody about that. Like, can we so this year I'm gonna leave earlier? I'm gonna get down there, not at eight o'clock at night, and we will see, but that's where I will be next weekend.
SPEAKER_01What about you? Uh so uh I'm going to a conference. Um, but I'm gonna like half call it going to the conference. I am going to the conference, but it's in Orlando, and my sister-in-law is gonna meet me down there with my nephew. Oh, nice. So it'll be just us two girls and uh and my one and a half year old nephew. Um, and I'm gonna go to the conference in the mornings, and then we'll we're gonna go to Epcot one day and have some margaritas in Mexico and whatever other uh international beverages exist around the world there.
SPEAKER_00You're hitting that right at the right time. It's not like nobody's out of school, everybody's off a spring break. Yeah, it should be good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it'll be fun. I haven't been to to Disney in like 10 years, probably. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I'm just doing that one park that one day. And it'll be a quick trip. We're just there for like a leave Thursday and come back Sunday morning. That's great. Um, but it'll be fun, yeah. Uh, we'll see how he does. I don't know how exciting up cut is for someone who's one and a half, not very. Yeah, he's not gonna be thrilled thrilled, probably. Um, but I will be after my third drink. So that's what really matters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you'll be ready for all of it. You'll have you'll have um Mickey ears on.
SPEAKER_01I'm just like not sure at this point in my life. Like, am I going to be like raging around the world or am I gonna have three drinks and be like, I have to go back to the hotel and sleep immediately?
SPEAKER_00Um, I feel like it's gonna be a little bit of both. I feel like you're going to feel as though you're internationally like inclined. So you're drinking margarita because you're yeah, you care about Mexico. I don't know. At least you will in Epcot. And then you'll want to like, you know, go over to the next country and now you're a wine drinker. Now I'm a prosecco drinker. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and now I'm in Japan drinking sake.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it'll it'll peak or you'll feel feel very like reflective, and then it will nosedive. And that's when you'll say, we have to go back to the hotel immediately.
SPEAKER_01I'm done right now. Yes, and then have the the hand session that next morning. Yes. So it'll be great. I'm staying at the hotel that the conference is at, which is always a huge plus for me. The past couple of conferences that I've been to that I've stayed somewhere else. It's always a bummer having to make that trek. Yeah. Um, so that'll be nice. Um, and just like a little bit of a change of scenery. So I'm excited for it. Um, but needless to say, yeah, we'll we'll be away. And so we have to reflect on our exciting new ventures of the past weeks and how we've been leveling up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we um, and again, we got we got asked this question, but we were asked to speak with the PAOS, the PA Society of Orthopedic Surgery, um, uh fellows who also do a podcast. So they had stumbled upon our podcast and you know, they reached out and wanted us to chat and just, you know, talk about what we do and why we do it. So it's really funny because we started the podcast just for, I think, creative outlet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. It was like um And now it's not because we're bored. I'm just gonna be very clear. No, but it's I think it has to do with like, one, I'm passionate about it, so I can't stop talking about it, like just an obsession. Um, two, like if you're super passionate about something, you want to share that with everybody else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, everybody should hear it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think there just wasn't something like it where I heard the, I don't want to call it not complaints, but like the the day-to-day things that you can resonate with. Because I think there's like so often I would walk around the halls here and talk to the different PAs and um NPs and discuss our shared life experiences, the things that frustrate us, um, the things that go well and not so well. Um, and I never heard about those things outside of these walls.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but also I don't know if you follow anyone on like Instagram or whatever, but you will see people post videos of like day in the life, you know, and it's just like a snapshot of what it is. And I'm not saying that it's not accurate, but there's no in-depth, you know, uh mulling on conversations that affect us every day. Like, I mean, most of the topics that we talk about are real life applications, whether they are us sorting it out or us talking about it. But I don't think there's another platform that talks about what we talk about.
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, the things that if I were to do a day in my life and be honest about it, it would look nothing like those things. No, and I could also but I could do those things. Like, we should do a day in the life, each of us, to post on the Instagram.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it like almost like a you know, like a parody on a parody on it, but my life is a parody on it. No, my life is also a parody on it. Like you should have done a day in the life this Friday when you had to get your Ivy. God, I couldn't.
SPEAKER_01That would have been great. No, I'm gonna I recreate that.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna work on that.
SPEAKER_01I mean, not in reality. I don't want you to have to go through that a second time, though.
SPEAKER_00No, but um, I mean, just for example, a little snapshot. So my youngest, she's 11. Um, she is, you know, trying out for the next level up for soccer. She met with her coach this week, which was like a ridiculously long visit. And he told her, you know, if you want more, you just you have to put in more. Like you have to try harder. I've given you all the tools you need to try harder. So, among all the other things that we do, right? I get up in the morning early and I work out, and then I have this like 30 minutes where I can kind of sit and get ready and whatever. So now my daughter's like, I want to run every morning at six. I want to do a mile. I was like, Oh, God, okay. All right, that means I have to get up earlier to do my workout to be ready at six. So again, like, you know, I could I could brand this as like, oh, and then I get to help my daughter. No. I'm like, get up, get up. I don't want to get up. I'm like, you made a promise yourself, get up. I'm getting up, you're getting up. So then we're running, and she's like, My knee hurts. I'm like, stop hanging. Yes, my knee hurts too. My shoes, I didn't put socks on. I'm like, Can we finish this goddamn run? I'm gonna get back to the house. That's all like before 6:30. This is amazing. But it's a we show up and it's great. Oh my god. No, I'm gonna parody, it's gonna be great. But anyway, um, no, I think the reason we started this podcast was to talk about stuff like this and normalize it and just give everybody a little bit of a reprieve and escape from you know all the things that that are serious, right? So uh not that we're not professional. Oh, we're we're very professional again, like um layering in some clinical stuff because again, that's what really excites us. So I think we do have a nice little um uh area in the world where we can talk about this type of real stuff, but also reflect on real orthopedic things. Yeah um so anyway, so uh enter P A O S. Yeah, uh met with us this past week and they they interviewed us. Yeah, it was great. It was really cool. What did you what did you think? What were your what were your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01And I so first off, they have a a great podcast that discusses more like the clinical topics. And I had listened to theirs in the past, especially when I was um in towards the end of like my uh my clinical year in school, um, driving to and from rotations. Uh, it was like short snippet episodes that I could just gather more information, be more well-rounded. So really helpful in that aspect. And I hadn't unfortunately listened in a while, and they reached out to us on Instagram and they were like, hey, we should, we should do a little collab. I'm like, I've literally wanted nothing more. I know. Because I I think that's also part of our goal with this is like reach and connect with other ortho PAs. And so that to me is like I'm seeing that come to fruition through this.
SPEAKER_00And I think the whole tone of what we talked about was more so, you know, us just giving an idea of why we're doing what we're doing. And then, you know, we did talk about some growth in within our, you know, our careers and just in the p the orthopedic world in general, but I think um talking that the people we talked to, they were two males who currently are PAs in orthopedics. And I think there was a lot of overlap as far as what we do, but very different perspectives um as far as what we think that people want to hear about, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um, and I think that might come from just like the the practice settings too, and our experiences from that. Um, you know, it's funny because we were just talking about this a little bit with the the newer PA that just started in our practice, that we have, I guess I'll say the fortunate aspect of having a little bit more of a casual environment sometimes. Yeah. Um, not existing in that hospital world where we get to uh interact with each other in a in a more fun way sometimes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Say it that way. Yeah, no, I agree with that. But I also think, you know, we only know what we know, right? And you go to more conferences than I do, but even connecting with other PAs and you know, trying to get ideas from them. You know, one of the PAs has been a PA for for 18 plus years. And we had just offline started talking about, like, hey, you know, let me pick your rate about this.
SPEAKER_01Hey, let me pick your rate about that. It kind of fires you up a little bit. And this happens to me after I go to conferences or anytime I do something new and different like that. Like, what what else? Yeah, like what more? And and what could I be doing differently? Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, like from a growth aspect, because to me, like that was that's a growth moment. Like we branched out, we did something new, um, fulfilling a little bit of purpose for what we saw for the podcast. Um, but like growth wise, what do you what do you think? I'm going off a little bit, like for yourself. Like, what would right now are you like excited to do more?
SPEAKER_00Like in the future or like currently right now? Well, both.
SPEAKER_01Um short and long-term goals. What are your short and long-term goals?
SPEAKER_00Well, in my, you know, fake world, I wanted them to be like, do you guys want any opportunities with us at PAOS? Like, do you want to be on staff? Yeah, we would love to. We would love to do that. We want to lecture. Yeah, we want to do all the education. Your personalities are amazing. We're in the we can't imagine. We can't stop listening about you. No, I would um I would love at some point to do some teaching, mentoring, leadership, something. Yeah. Like, and again, I think that that's big enough where to do that. I would need to be at a place in my career where I would want to stop the face-to-face patient. So I'm not quite ready for that, but I would love to keep, you know, um, connections to be able to do that. Like, I would love to be a shoulder expert, ACL expert, Misha expert, and just give talks on, you know, how this has evolved over my career, even before that, just so you know, PAs coming in. But I also um, and I don't even know the right, like, I don't even know how to articulate it, but we had talked in that interview a little bit about newer generation PAs coming in and how it's just different. And I think the face of medicine from prior podcasts that we've done, you need to have a certain desire, certain drive that can't be taught. Yeah. Right. And I think unfortunately, newer generations of PAs, something is lost in what they're being taught.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They're not being taught. Like you need to be super productive. You need to want to push yourself. You need to want to level up. So I don't know how to be that person for the next generation.
SPEAKER_01No, that's tough because it's you're right. It can't be like that is not something you can teach someone. I feel like it just inherently exists in some people, more so than others.
SPEAKER_00It inherently exists less for whatever reason reason in this newer generation.
SPEAKER_01And I almost wonder, I'm probably gonna be canceled for saying this, but I think I'm gonna urge you to not be canceled. No, but I think from an educational standpoint, I think just the world has taken you could look at this from any aspect, has taken a big turn. And maybe we need to find like a middle ground of like how am I gonna say this? So for example, back in the day, like medical training and education, it was like, I mean, uncontrolled hours, right? Not safe to a degree, not very safe. You were kind of scared into a lot of things. Like it was trial by fire. Yeah, um, you get yelled at, you, you know, that's how you learn in your OR rotations not to touch anything initially because somebody's just staring at you like a hawk, yelling at you every move you make. Like I'm not saying that that is healthy or good, but I think that some of those ways of learning really gave people an appreciation for once they got to that point in their career where they um where they were like past that. Yeah. Um, so I'm not condoning like you can call that hazing or whatever, if you will. But and I don't think that that's good, but I think then when you take a drastic turn the other way and everything is like, ooh, you have to make sure uh it's the you know, a low number of hours and work-life balance and work-life balance is so stressed, and like, oh, if you don't feel comfortable with it, you shouldn't have to do it. You should only do what you're comfortable with. And I'm gonna hold your hand through every step of the way. That's not how you effectively learn.
SPEAKER_00But that's also not how people break boundaries, yeah. Like do new things, like movies doing new things because they, you know, they're feeling safe all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's true. And I I mean, like, uh, have you watched the new season of um Scrubs or the new the reboot of it? It's actually really good, and I feel like they breach this topic very, very well. Um, because the original Scrubs, it's one of my favorite medical drama TV shows, comedy, I guess, technically, but um, I think it's the most realistic. And the original one very much touched into that like traditional grind. And now this new season, it's bringing in all these like, I don't know, what's are we Gen Z? Is it Gen X, whatever generation it is? And they're like, you know, on their phones TikToking, and they have mandatory nap breaks in the middle of the day, and they're like, ooh, I'm actually not comfortable with this. And, you know, this 60-year-old surgeon who's been there for forever is like, um, okay, well then like get comfortable with it or get the fuck out. Like, um, and then they get they report that to HR, and then HR comes to the surgeon, he's like, Oh, you can't talk to people like that. And you know, it's just really it's interesting. So, um, but I think there's a middle ground with that. I think too far one direction, and you are basically telling people like you don't have to work super hard, just only do what you're comfortable with.
SPEAKER_00Uh I almost wonder if there's like some future in the PA field where you can, you know, X amount of years into your career and X amount of, you know, I don't want to say accolades, but like, I don't know, let's say you're a seasoned provider, you can then act as a mentor for a new provider. And that's mandatory. Like you need to be with a mentor until you take your boards for the second time, like for the first 10 years. Yeah, something that um is just you know, I I I don't know, like in the academic world because I've been removed for so long, but in the academic world, you've got PAs, clinicians teaching the new PAs, and they're teaching to a world that maybe doesn't exist anymore, you know what I mean? Or they're teaching not some of the things that um like uh you know, PA class that's like how to survive with your coworkers, how to prove your value. Like, do you think that's any of it?
SPEAKER_01No, we don't have any of that. I mean, we had like empathy classes and like for patients.
SPEAKER_00I'm talking about more like for real you as a provider, like how to be, and we didn't even get to this on our PAOS podcast, but like how to develop a good relationship with your surgeon, how to be trusted. Um, no, that type of thing. That's not even in the rubric. And I think that's so important, and that's the type of thing that a mentor can provide to a new PA. Yeah. Um, because you're otherwise you're just you know, you're just going with what you know. And if your your surgeon says, Hey, I need you to scrub in for this after hours case, and all you know is to say, I'm not comfortable with that, or I'm scheduled with a family dinner, like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, like again, I go back to this your life is what you make it, right? If that is not what's important to you, right, then yes, I'm not saying don't like have your work life balance and your family life and go to your dinner, but you have to be in a if that is the type of job you want, it's just gonna be look different than somebody who is but at the same committed to if you doing extra.
SPEAKER_00But if you want this role and you want to be important and you want to be valuable, then these are decisions you have to make. Like maybe this is a defining moment where you skip the thing that you had. Especially early on. Especially early on. And I just don't think that PAs have a good um, they don't have good direction with that. Yeah. I would I would like to play some role in that in the future. Just so I don't know, something that just um helps strengthen the field in a different way than you would think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, almost like boot camp. You need to have like a PA boot camp where you like harden people. Like we do a ropes course. Yeah, yeah. Like we really just harden people to fuck up. Oh my god. Yeah, like yeah, we actually should join effort PA boot camp. Oh yeah, three days. I think it'll be like a Spartan race.
SPEAKER_00Is the sweet spot. Oh my god, we should do that.
SPEAKER_01Wow, it's happening. Anyway, yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, like it for me from a growth perspective, I think it's like a lot to I feel like I'm still in this place where I'm still super early on. Like I want to continue to get uh I don't like the word comfortable, but I want to continue to just build myself in the actual PA role that I'm doing. Um but I do like really enjoy the idea of growing as far as like procedural capabilities in the OR, especially. Like I I think initially that was my place of discomfort during school, and now that's my place of comfort and where I really feel like I thrive and enjoy things. Um and I love like learning new techniques and I love being a part of big um complex cases, and so I I foresee myself just wanting to grow in ways that make me perform more in that aspect, which can be hard as a PA to kind of navigate because you do ceiling and cap out a little bit with some of that stuff, but there's ways for it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So now the two providers that we had talked with in the interview, they also do some managerial type stuff. Do you have any desire to do that?
SPEAKER_01Not necessarily. I don't know. I mean, I think it like I actually had some managerial experience prior to PA school when I was managing our athletic training department. And I mean, it's it's for some people and not for others. I didn't like I I felt like I was too much of a people pleaser to be a super effective manager. Um, and I I never wanted to make people do something they didn't want to do, which came back negatively to me most of the time. Um, so I struggled with that. I I mean there's certain aspects of it that I didn't. Did really like because I liked being able to make decisions and give input. Um, but I don't know, to me, that stuff, the teaching and the managing aspect of things doesn't quite excite me.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if I told you this last week. We have a student right now, and um he's doing his surgery rotation. It happens to be orthopedics, which is not all inclusive of surgery, which again, that's not on me, that's on their school. But um, you know, this is week three, we're halfway through a six-week rotation. So I was like, Hey, what do you like? What do you not like? And he was like, I, you know, I think I struggle in clinic. And I was like, Okay, that's that's reflective. You should because you're not a sub-specialty within a specialty in clinic. Yeah, you should struggle. And he was like, No, I mean, it's not quite that. It's just that um like in this workspace, there's three providers, uh everybody's trying to dictate and talk, everybody's asking for something, it just feels like it's it's just like a lot. And I I was like, Oh my god, like where are you gonna thrive? Yeah, like how are you gonna in what world do you think it's gonna be quiet and you can see one patient? Dermatology, no, that's like that, but you see one patient, and then you can mentally dictate and that patient, and then you very comfortably move on to the next one. Like the I guess what I'm saying is the perception of what it should be in the reality. This seemed to catch this person really off guard. Yeah. And I was like, huh. Like again, that that got me back to thinking, like, yeah, what is not being taught to these people? And again, I remember doing clinicals. You do clinicals and you get out there and you're like, oh, this is internal medicine, or this is surgery. Oh, they say long hours, oh, that's what that means.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, um, I don't know where I was going with that, but I just um so part of PA boot camp could be um an immersion room where you just are overstimulated with shit all the time, and you either like learn to zone in and focus on what you need to focus on in the midst of it. Kind of like how they train uh dogs to be desensitized.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Like the bomb sniffing dogs at the airport, ignore everything else going around.
SPEAKER_00You do your job. But I guess linking back back to you know, managing people and teaching, like I just uh I want to put in enough effort now to make it easier for that provider. Like I want to be a mentor for that provider and be like, listen, buddy, yeah, my best advice to you based on this three-week rotation, do not go into surgery, do not go into emergency medicine. If this is overwhelming for you in a clinic setting, I mean, imagine being in the hospital. You when I first got in the OR and um the sound of the suction or the sound of beep, beep, beep. Like in the beginning, it really bothered me. I don't even hate it anymore. Yeah, you know what I mean? But um, to hear other people talking, and that was a huge stressor for this person. Like there should be someone who's working with you that's going to guide you to not go into fields where you're going to be overstimulated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you may not thrive when the person's snoring really loud and the suction's going off and the every surgeon's yelling and throwing something and then every shoulder. Yeah. So anyway, um, but yeah, so any other reflections from the PAOS uh Yeah, I thought I thought it was just really interesting to meet with some like-minded um PAs out there that are kind of trying to to pave the way in different aspects, and you know, they're in uh where are they Atlanta and Colorado? Um so it's always just refreshing to find people that are on your same boat, you know? They they resonated with a lot of the things we had mentioned in our podcast, and this is part of the reason we started our podcast is so that we can talk about the things that we find similarities in, and like, oh my gosh, this happened to me. I feel like this all the time. Oh my gosh, I had this experience today. I've had that happen before. Um, and it's not just us apparently, it's a whole world of other people out there feeling the same way. So um we're ready to to hear from all of you. We want all the all the PA friends that are. We do.
SPEAKER_00We also, I mean you and you and I, we know PAs that have worked here and now are elsewhere. I just love to geographically hear about those that are working in the same field elsewhere, yeah. You know, because it always, I mean, I have my idea of what it is or what it isn't, but it's always nice to hear from someone like, oh, what do you mean you can only see 24 patients today? That's never been asked. More of you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I guess you work at a hospital is probably what I'm gathering from that.
SPEAKER_00So this this new this new PA that we we have here um meeting with him, you know, every week, and he says, Oh, well, you know, we can meet Tuesdays. You guys are in sports, your cases don't go too late.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, Oh, that's cute. Oh, thanks. That's cute. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Well, that was that was a great turning point for the joint effort PAs, and and hopefully we will continue to level up as we have been talking about.
SPEAKER_00Gain new opportunities. Like, I can't wait to see what else we're gonna do this year and what other kind of realms that we are we are going to break into and other lives that we are we are resonating with. So hopefully we will um repost that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I don't even know how to do that. I'm just gonna I don't know either, but it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01So all right, until next time.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning in to Joint Effort PAs. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a fellow PA or med minded friend. You can also follow us on Instagram at Joint EffortPAs for updates and extra content. See you next time.