43. Cycle Breaking with Author Dusah Wiseman

Breaking inherited patterns is some of the most important work of our time. Int his episode, Jess sits down with author Dusah Wiseman to talk about her book Dear Cycle Breaker and what it actually takes to step out of inherited patterns without turning healing into another performance. We start with Dusah’s publishing path, including an early rejection, intense deadlines, and what it looked like to bring this book into the world -- on a timeline she wasn't fully expecting.

From there, we get concrete about cycle breaking, deconditioning, and why “being a cycle breaker” isn’t a label you cling to. It’s the natural result of choosing differently: learning rest when you were raised on burnout, processing emotions when you were taught to suppress them, and letting your body become an authority that tells the truth before your mind catches up. We also talk about purpose as remembrance, the power of stillness and “emptying” the noise, and how guidance should bring you back to yourself instead of making you dependent.

The conversation goes wider too, touching victim mentality with real nuance: you are not at fault for what happened to you, and you still have agency in how you respond now. We connect personal empowerment to collective change, systems crumbling, divine feminine rage, toxic masculinity, and what balance can look like when you stop tolerating what harms you. Dusah closes with practical ways to find your own clues using astrology, human design, Gene Keys, Chiron, the nodes, Saturn, and daily rituals.

If this resonates, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s ready to start, and leave a review so more cycle breakers can find the show.

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You can connect with me on Instagram @jesscallahan_, join my Substack community at conditioningtoconsciousness.substack.com, or explore more of my work at jesscallahan.com.

My Back in the Body Nervous System Healing course is now available! Find it here.

Thanks for listening — I’m so grateful you’re here.

Transcript

Welcome And Voice Note Format

Jess 0:01

Hey guys, welcome back to the Conditioning to Consciousness podcast. I have something different in store for you today, but um something I'm really excited about. So a couple months ago on Threads, I saw this woman promoting her book, and it was called Deer Cycle Breaker. And so immediately I got the book because I was like, that sounds like something that I would love. And I started reading it. And I was like, hmm, I wonder if she'd like talked to me on the podcast. It was sort of just like um on a whim. And I reached out and Dusa so graciously accepted. And at the beginning, you know, our schedules were just sort of um, our schedules were sort of conflicting. And so, you know, we were just like in different parts of the world and you know, working through busy times of the year. And so we just decided to do the interview through Voice Note. And it was such a fun process. It's the first full interview that I've completed through Voice Note. And it was just um, it was just really fun to be able to go back and forth and just dive into, you know, how what brought this book to life and all of the love behind it. And um, yeah, it's just you'll hear very early on what I think of the book. I uh, you know, I I sort of just like launch it, the questions with how much I love the book. And so you'll hear really soon exactly why I love this book so much. But um anyway, I hope you enjoy it. It it's the my longest episode yet. Um, I guess I got a little bit carried away, being that it was a voice note interview, but there was just um there was just nothing that I like wanted to trim. So hopefully you enjoy this as much as I do, and definitely go buy the book. It's called Dear Cycle Breaker with Deuce Wiseman, and all of her links are in the show notes. I am just I'm so grateful to have the opportunity to have this conversation with you. I read the book, as I said. Um, it's the book is fantastic. And so before we dive in, I just want to tell you how much I enjoyed reading it. It's like I love the perspective that you take in your book, where it's like it's just like so it's easy to read, it's easy to follow, it's like these really big concepts. You're almost like walking someone through the journey of awakening or the inner journey, which can be really like complicated, especially to explain to somebody else, especially to to guide someone through, but you do it in a way that's so well researched, it's so thoughtful, and it's really easy to read and follow along. It's like not intimidating. And I loved every bit of it. And through my questioning, I know I'm gonna touch on some of my very favorite parts, but um, I just wanted to start by telling you that I really enjoyed the book, and I think that it is, I think it's a must-have for any woman who is starting on this path of like going inward. Um I think that it's it's just like a pocket guide that that anybody, anybody can use to walk them through, to walk them through this path. Like it's like having just a hand to hold. Each chapter ends with, you know, a great um, you know, journaling prompt or affirmation or a deeper ritual. And so I want to get into all of that, but that's um that's just where I wanted to start. So I would love it if you would just start by like sharing your story, you know, who who you are, how did you get to this place of writing and publishing this book? Because that in itself is a huge feat.

Dusah Wiseman 4:03

First of all, thank you so much. I just had to really, really, truly receive every single word about how you spoke about this body of work that I can't even call my own fully, because it truly was this co-creation between me, my spirit team, those times in stillness of me looking back, reflecting over my journey. And I know that the end result of it, how you speak of it, is exactly how I wanted it to be received. So thank you deeply for those beautiful, beautiful reflections. It truly touched my heart. And how this book came to be was nothing short of a divine synchronicity. And it's a true tale to when they say one door closes, another one opens. I truly thought that I always knew I wanted to be a writer, an author. I just didn't think it would happen this soon. I thought I would be like this elder woman somewhere living overseas and like, okay, now that I've lived this full life, what do I have to share? But the divine had other plans for that. And so um one time one day, this this mini indie uh publishing company reached out to me about writing a book. And I was so like, oh my goodness, I don't know if I can. They're like, no, no, no, you can do it. We love your work already. It's practically a shoe-win. You have to know, don't worry about it. You you got it. So that gave me the confidence to move forward. And but they were needing all of these rushed deadlines, like, okay, can you get us the manuscript in a week? I'm like, wow, a week? Like that's a that's a short amount of time. I'm pretty sure you usually get more time than that. But I kept meeting all these different deadlines of what they were asking of me, only in the end for them to say, you know, we decided not to publish this. And I was crushed because I said, oh my goodness, I wasn't even thinking about publishing a book right now. And there I was sharing the deepest parts of me, um, of the the traumatic events from my very first boyfriend being murdered to just my upbringing, how there weren't any yoga studios. There were just liquor stores on every corner. So just how I even arrived here was nothing short of a miracle. So I'm pouring all of that out only for them to say, oh no, hmm, second thought, this is not it. So that made me think, well, damn, like you want the surface level version of me, but not the full aspect of me. So I got over it and I just went back to business as usual, just showing up, shining my light. And then before long, Pay House reaches out to me. And at the time, I truly thought it was a scam because one of their editors reached out and they said, Hey, I really think you should write a book. And I was like, uh, I don't know. Because you know the previous experience that happened. Um, but they said, no, hey, just take a call with me. Let's hop on the call. And I was super skeptical because I'm like, oh my goodness, Hey House has published so many of my favorite authors, like Dr. Joe Dispenza, Dr. David Hawkins. I was like, oh my goodness. But still thinking it was a scam, right? Because it's like this um person reaches out to me on Instagram. And so we have the call, and I'll, even from the email, I was still a skeptic, even though it said at heyhouse.com or ink, I forget what the whatever it was, you know, it said hey house. But when we get on the Zoom call, it's super official then because I'm seeing the Hey House Zoom and everything. And she's just walking me through and she's like, I really love like reading your captions and your writing, and I think there's a book in you. And she was indeed truly an angel. She asked me if there were previous articles I had written. Because I was like, I don't know, what is this? What's the book that wants to come through? And I sent her some different articles that I had written, and then she took the different things that I had said and like put them together and fed it back to me as a summary for the book. And I read it and I was like, wow, this is genius. And she's like, Well, these are your words. And I was like, oh wow. And that kind of gave me the confidence to say, okay, maybe there is a book here. Maybe there is something to speak about. And it became this sort of initiation process because, you know, we had a deadline on when to turn in that it wasn't the manuscript, but it's like that introduction, it's like the introduction, the sample, I forget what they call it. But it's like um, you know, you write the chapters, you write sample uh, you write sample chapters, you write the title of all the chapters and all of that. So I'm trying to birth all of this. However, I ended up being hospitalized for about three weeks. And so I'm coming out of the hospital and I'm trying to heal. I had like three different incisions on my belly, and I'm literally, it's like blood, sweat, and tears is going into this process because I'm just healing and waking up in pain and like literally hurled over in the bed with my computer and getting this out and feeling so nervous. But she gets it, she receives it, she loves it. She pitches it to the head of the department at Hay House, and they were like, we love it, absolutely. And the rest was history. So it really was like this angel discovered me, divine, divine, divine angel, divine being, walked my hand through the entire process, and yeah, here we are.

What A Cycle Breaker Really Is

Jess 9:17

Oh my gosh, I I felt that journey as you as you spoke it. Like I can't imagine the roller coaster of like going from like not expecting to write a book at all, and then you're like forced to just like, you know, you mentioned a week, I think, to like turn around a manuscript, which feels like kind of insane. And then yeah, the hit of being like w this is never mind, but like, but then to hear the pivot in the story, like to hear where where you went from there and how really like it opened your mind for like when the actual opportunity came through, it really was um, it really was meant to be. And I want to dive into just like the details of the book itself. So the book is on cycle breaking, and that's something that I just like personally really resonate with. And I'm curious, like for somebody who might be, you know, hearing the words cycle breaker or you know, maybe already starting to live in that space, like how how do you define like what it means to be a cycle breaker? Um, and and for somebody, like how might someone maybe like recognize themselves in that role before they're actually claiming it, like like claiming themselves as a cycle breaker?

Dusah Wiseman 10:44

I am so happy that that energy can be felt because I really, really wanted my voice to come through. Because you know, when you're working with a publisher, I myself had two editors on it, and um it was really important to me that my voice remained intact. And in terms of being a cycle breaker, I see this term as something like, okay, a guru, a real guru, not a self-proclaimed guru. A guru just is. They are. It's not that they go around saying, hey, I'm a guru, I'm a guru, I'm a guru, but it's the energy and the essence of what they have. They are able to dispel your darkness and you recognize them as your guru. The guru doesn't choose you, you feel it within yourself and say, Wow, this is my guru. This is someone who has dispelled my darkness, this is someone who has allowed me to touch the unseen realms, who has taken me beyond the veil to see a glimpse of what life is truly about. And you energize that and amplify that as the guru. And so bringing that back to the cycle breaker, I don't feel it's a term we have to cling. We don't have to say, you know what, today I'm choosing to be a cycle breaker. But there is this moment that comes where you're like, I'm choosing to do things different. This ends with me. I will no longer stand for this. Sure, there was poverty in my family before, but that's no longer my story. I'm deciding the opposite of that. And so, quite naturally, through your life choices and through you radically saying yes to who you are, you become this cycle breaker. And I feel like a lot with healing and understanding of ourselves with so much knowledge out there, with so many like life coaches and things out there. Honestly, I feel like we could do I'm trying to be conscious with of what I'm saying here. Because I don't want to be like this total rebellious stake of saying, like, do away with the life coaches, because they there are some who have a lot of integrity who are shifting the life of others. But I feel like we're all trying to figure out this thing called life. So to me, it feels quite I don't know the word I'm looking for. It just it doesn't quite feel right in my bones to say, I am this life coach. So I never liked to adopt that language because we're all trying to figure out this life thing, right? And what my map is may not be your map. It's it's no, not may not. It is not your map. But I can sort of sort of shine this light into what your own compass is. I can guide you back to yourself. Whereas I've seen a lot of life coaches who they want you to depend on them, like the pharmaceutical, they want you to need them. They don't necessarily fix the root of the issue. And I feel like we ourselves are responsible for going in deep into the roots of our being. And so coming back to cycle breaker, it's not something we have to consciously think, okay, how do I be a cycle breaker? You become that by doing the work on yourself. There are studies that are being out. I don't want to go deeply into that because I haven't dove all the way into it, but there are studies that are being shown that by you shifting who you are, by you choosing a different lifestyle, you can very tangibly affect your entire lineage. So in this regard, I titled it Dear Cycle Breaker because it's like a soul remembrance, a soul recognition. You yourself don't have to understand it, but your soul remembers the mission you came here to do. And by you saying yes to that mission, you will inevitably become that cycle breaker. So who is a Cycle Breaker? It's the ones who don't conform. You know, the ones who say, Yeah, this might have been what was, but I'm choosing what is. They many call this like the black sheep, but I never really liked that terminology. And I mentioned this in the book, you know, I don't like the fact that oftentimes what is described as dark or black is considered bad. And so essentially, yes, it's the the outcast, the the ones who were very were very eccentric, mm how their outward expression may look have looked differently to others, but it's them embracing the wholeness and the fullness of who they are, regardless of if it fits into some sort of box or what society says is acceptable. They beat to their own drum. That is the cycle breaker, and that's who I'm speaking to within this book, which can be anybody. The moment you choose to be who you radically are and own who you came here to be.

Deconditioning And Listening To Your Body

Jess 15:20

I love your explanation of cycle breaking so much. Um, and I resonate so much with just like the discussion about life coaching. Um, I think that I I feel you in that way where it's like, I, you know, I offer coaching myself, but I've always felt sort of like I don't know, un uncomfortable using using the like term coaching because I think that there is a lot of um like integrity that can be like sometimes missing from the field. And it is like it's like the true guide that you're naming, the person that's like leading through example, who's truly just like making a choice to do life in a certain way and living from that place and whatever comes from it and the lives that they can change and help, like it's just really powerful. Um I think that there's a lot of people doing a lot of really hard cycle breaking work on their own right now, and it's important to find resources that do help because the whole idea of cycle breaking is doing something different that the people before you haven't done, right? You are you're choosing to live life differently. There's no immediate guidebook, and so you find support through resources and people to lift you up. And, you know, I think some of the things that are coming to mind as I'm thinking of cycle breaking in, you know, my own life or the lives of people that I've worked with and friends. It's like some some easy ones, maybe are like and not easy to break, but like maybe easy to name are this idea of like rest, right? Like there's programming that tells us that rest is weakness, that we need to push harder, produce more, but rest is a natural part of the cycle of life. It is something that we, you know, have to do to replenish ourselves in order to, you know, live in a more like inspired and active and creative way. But those before us, you know, if we were never modeled rest, if if those before us constantly are just like moving and never modeling, like caring for the self, we burn out. We learn that burnout is the way of life. And so choosing to listen to your own like energetic patterns and living by like the cycles of nature might be cycle breaking, right? Or, you know, historically speaking, emotions, like processing emotion is something that's not been totally validated in the past. Um, you know, if you're talking about, you know, women and you know, only talking about like the poles of a gender spectrum, but like women maybe are told that they're irrational or hysterical for expressing emotion, and men are weak for expressing emotion. But being the one that tunes in and says, like, no, I'm I'm gonna learn how to like process my emotions, express my emotions, I'm gonna teach my children how to live in wholeness as part of that, learning how to feel and express our emotions. Like that is cycle breaking, right? So um there's just there's so many of us doing this hard work right now. And I think your book really just, again, is just a guide that walks you through that process in a really just like gentle and comfortable way. Um, in chapter two, the chapter's called The Way Out Is Through. Um, I use a lot of that verbiage sometimes, like, you know, just that I think it's important to create spaces where you go through it, not around it. Healing, you have to go through it, not around it. You have to do the hard thing, look in the direction of the thing that's causing, you know, the discomfort. And I think you break it down really well here. Um, you say your healing requires you to dive right into the middle of it, and then you describe it as this like it's like a beautiful hurricane where yeah, it's messy and stormy and chaotic, but there's this quiet part in the middle that you can sort of rest into. And I I just I really liked that imagery, but you then go on to talk about how it's really important to um like to build awareness, to notice your triggers, to study the self. And essentially, like it's through this chapter you're talking about the process of decod deconditioning, like unlearning all of the rules that we've been taught along the way, I think. And so I'm curious what like why you think that deconditioning is such an important part of cycle breaking and reconnecting with yourself and your soul and like the essence of who you truly are.

Dusah Wiseman 19:57

Well, I just absolutely love your questions and just how you're carrying this conversation. And ironically enough, I literally I was getting ready to apply for this residency, and they asked to see like examples of your work, and if it's written work, then to upload at least three pages. And I was immediately drawn to chapter two. Like something told me to upload that. And so here you are. This literally happened earlier. And so to have that being brought up here is just like, okay, well, I need to make sure that I complete that. Um and so I'll start there with saying that, yeah, I absolutely love that chapter as well. And it's funny because when that imagery came to mind, I was just like, mmm, yes, like I was able to really feel that. So I'm happy you were able to feel that too. And I'm a vi I'm a big, huge component of or advocate for really diving into middle to into the middle of things. And I think that's, I don't think, I know for a fact, that was one of the things that I that led to me being hospitalized in the past was because I knew there was this over this thing that was hanging over my head that I needed to deal with that I was suppressing, and I know better than that. I absolutely know better. But I was like, no, it's gonna require me to go all the way in, and I'm gonna collapse I may collapse, I may crumble. I allow myself to do those things so that I can really feel it all because these unexpressed these emotions, these suppressed emotions, these sort of different things that we're burying inside is what weighs us down. It's what keeps us heavy. It is what prevents us from tuning into that undeniable joy. And it can manifest as pain in the body. And so, yeah, I just like that was one of the things that that even caused that to happen. So I did dive into it, and that's it. It also led to me taking a year-long break from social media, which is when the completion of this body of work was happening as well. As I was healing, as I had to leave and grieve the situations that I went was in. So, yes, we really need to be able to courageously navigate into the depths of what we have at hand in order to fully alchemize that and rise on the other side. And I really do believe that a lot of that integrity is missing within that coaching space. I myself have mentored others, have guided others, but I never felt, you know, that word always made me kind of like tense a little bit because it's just that we're all figuring this out, as I've said before, so I won't go back there to that. But anywho, and it's not that was not to say at all that there aren't great, amazing coaches out there. Just want to reiterate that as well. But I also feel that this deconditioning work is very, very necessary because how will we know what our own voice is? How will we know the difference between what we genuinely want and what someone else has deemed we should want? And a lot of that happens in our early childhood. You know, when they're asking you, what do you want to be when you grow up? And now all of a sudden you're in this pretend world, but in reality, I feel like that's reality world that we were in as a child. Um all of a sudden we're having to think about these grown-up things of like, okay, I have to make something of myself. And, you know, God forbid you say something that's like very artsy and creative, and they're looking at you like, okay, that sounds nice, but what do you really want to do? Now all of a sudden you have this subconscious inert feeling that tells you, well, if I go towards artistry, then that's not a real job, and I don't, I won't get really paid. I did see this artist recently who said ever since he was a child, that his father told him there was a lot of money to be made in artwork. And so he never had this inkling that he could not get paid for that. But anywho, I think that's how we should be approaching this. This how this that's how parents should be guiding their children by whatever it is they they have a natural interest in, then motivate them to pursue that so that when they're older, they don't have to figure it out of who I am. Because I'm a big proponent in believing that when you incarnated onto this earth, in this vessel, in this body, you knew exactly what you were coming here to do. But the conditioning, the beliefs, the things that everyone else told you to believe was taking you further away from that. And that's when the coaching space can become dangerous because they're coaching you into different things. And ultimately it's up to you to remember and decide what's best for you. And so this can manifest in many different ways, you know, from our career to our if we believe in a religion, all these different beliefs, and we have to, we don't have to, but I think it's a beautiful thing to be the seeker to question why these things are being said and why is it so, to not accept anything as in terms of, I gotta be careful with what I'm saying here, don't accept things as law in terms of when someone is telling you who you can and cannot be. You know, for the longest, women were told that they cannot open up a bank. Women were told, you know, all sorts of different things between how they were dressing, that that they their work is better served as being just a mother, all these different things. Well, who said that? Who made that the rule? Who made that the law? And so the sooner we can begin to reclaim our own truths, our own beliefs, when we can look at different things being spoken and said and questioned, how does this feel within my body, letting our own bodies be the authority, then we sort of hang on to this inner compass that can't be um misguided or misled by external influences. So I'm a big also advocate for drowning out the noise, from disconnecting, unplugging to drown out the noise so that your inner guidance, your inner intuition can become more clear. Because again, it's not up to anyone else to, you know, they can point you in the right direction, but ultimately it's you who must walk that path. So it's gonna feel so much better and much more magnetic when it comes solely from you, from your soul.

Purpose As Remembrance Not A Hunt

Jess 26:40

I love how when you talk about the hospitalizations, and you know, of course, um I I don't love that you were hospitalized, but just like the honesty and like naming that you know better, you know, like you're you were holding on to things, suppressing things, and just like the very real like fact that they that when we hold on to stuff like that, it can manifest in our bodies as illness. And so, you know, even for those of us who are committed to doing this like deep inner work and just like continuing to peel back the layers, continuing to go deeper, I think it's just like a really honest reflection to be able to say, like, I know better, but I still did it like um it does, it happens to all of us, and it's like not something that we should be, you know, uh like ashamed of or anything like that. Like it's just that this it is a long process and it's something we have to continuously commit to coming back to. Um, and so I'm just I'm appreciative that you mentioned that so honestly. And um I love, I love how you describe, like, okay, so I think I think what you said was like, how will we know the difference between what we want and what someone else thinks that we should want? I think that that's a really like direct way of talking about how conditioning really does like impact us. It's like we live our lives like following this, you know, unwritten rule book and we're following the things that we think that we're supposed to do and who thinks we're supposed to do them. Usually it's not us until we've like peeled back those layers. But um, you know, until we figure out what is ours, we just keep chasing it. And it's yeah, like just so smart to think about teaching the kids to like think about that, anchor into that early on, you know, really be thinking about what um, you know, what are their interests, right? Like as the um, as the artist, the creative you were talking about, whose parents um brilliantly like, you know, told them that it doesn't matter, like that that art, there can be a lot of money in art. Like, why limit kids right away? Um, even like throughout the book, you mentioned you have little notes of like human design and astrology. And I think there's so much that we can be doing to prepare kids earlier for just like what their energy is sort of like aligned for and what where their interests are and really like helping them move in that direction. I think we'd probably see a lot less burnout, um, you know, when we follow these like unwritten rules and we end up as doctors and attorneys and business owners and whatever else, because we think that that's you know, that's where we've always sort of been guided since we were young. I think that when we're doing something that's out of line with our energy, we really do burn out quickly. Um, and so yeah, I don't know. I think like that's where my next question lies. Um, you mentioned also just believing that we have an agreement sort of before we come, before we come here in this life. And it's a soul purpose, soul contract, however you want to name it. And it is our job to peel back the conditioning that we've accumulated so that we can find it. And I'm curious, like what would you say to someone who maybe has built their life around this like search for purpose and deeper meaning, and they're feeling sort of like lost and seeking redirection, seeking a way to go inward. Like, how does this whole process of cycle breaking help guide someone to finding and living whatever purpose means to you?

Dusah Wiseman 30:27

I love this. And I always like to say that your purpose is not something you find, it's something you remember. And yeah, I truly do believe that we come here knowing what our mission is, what our purpose is. And the reason why I can say that or why I feel that is because when I was a child, I was just so deeply connected to the elements. I was so deeply connected to my artistry, and just life felt magical. Life felt like I was I was practicing animism without knowing it, which is that appreciation, that gratitude for everything, seeing everything as a living being, not separate from you. I had a taste of that when I was younger without being able to name that. But as I get older and people say, like, okay, so what do you want to be? I'm like, oh, I gotta pick something. Okay, I love babies, uh, pediatrician. Like I start naming that. And then I start getting derailed and forgetting that connection of my own inner knowing, my own guidance. And so as you do this, the work of cycle breaking and breaking cycles, you you start to remove all the debris that has kept you away from that inner truth. And the only way we can do that is to go within, to start asking the questions internally. We can't look externally for the answers. We can look for inspiration, but sometimes even that steers you off path because you can't follow someone else's map. It can kind of like redirect you to what feels like home to you. And I say this, that there's sort of like this remembrance because just my path alone, where I grew up, like I said, there, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I've said it previously in other spaces that there weren't any yoga studios where I grew up. There were just like liquor stores in every corner. There was no sign of the spiritual path that I'm on right now. Outside of like, you know, there was like the churches. I I grew up going into going to church religiously with my grandmother. And the the Christian faith bathe practices were a lot different than what I felt close to my heart. I had all these questions that no one could truly answer. And so you can imagine that with that came this sort of trepidation and grief to go against all, not go against, because I I still see the beauty in that. My grandmother taught me the art of devotion. So tonight, it doesn't always mean dismantling everything that came before. Can you dissect it to discover the truth within it that's undiluted, not um filtered through someone else's lens, but your own. And so that taught me the art of devotion, but I really wanted to like remove the middleman and connect deeply with that source energy. And it took my my trauma, the pain that I went through, became the pathway. It became the way to connecting more and deeper. It became, as I took one step, the next step was revealed. But it took sort of this sort of collapsing and saying, wow, I don't understand what's happening right now. And this is the space many are afraid to go into. That liminal space, that that dark space, that space where it just feels very unknown. But that is exactly where you're going to find the light. And mm-hmm I have chills because I'm feeling the sunshine like just embrace itself over me. But we really have to be willing to go there and to surrender. And I think oftentimes everyone is so fixated on control, even with purpose. They feel like the purpose is something you have to control. But I truly believe it's something you just open up to and you allow it to take precedence, you allow it to awaken for yourself to remember this soul calling. And it's in those spaces of surrender, of without seeing the path, with emptying yourself, emptying yourself, emptying yourself, that you can then be filled with what is true, what is pure, what is your soul calling. So the more we can jot on the noise, the more that we can find solace in that solitude, that is when we can begin to hear the truth, the real whispers from the divine that's not clouded by anyone else, but it takes that moment of stillness and it takes you going within.

Victim Mentality And Personal Power

Jess 34:54

The the idea of like emptying, emptying, emptying, like it just puts it so succinctly. It's like to find your purpose, to reconnect with your purpose, to, you know, connect with your intuition and whatever it is that feels like the most aligned path forward. It is this process of just like emptying, deconditioning, quieting the mind, emptying, creating space so that messages from your higher self or your intuition or wherever it is that you seek guidance can come in. I love that so much. Um, okay, so this whole idea that like we create our reality. I'm looking at chapter 10 specifically, which um which is about like breaking the victim mentality. I'm wondering if you can talk about that a little bit more, about you know, how it is that we can really like show ourselves a little bit of tough love. Um and I think I'm I'm interested too in like how this idea of like that we create our reality and cycle breaking in general, like how is that especially relevant like right now in this global moment? And like, you know, speaking from the US, I I want to acknowledge that this moment isn't necessarily new. Like in the US at least, the system was never built for all of us. Like there are just more groups that are feeling it now, and it's a moment that's especially loud and especially chaotic and especially painful in a moment where I think with this momentum, real change could be possible. So I'm curious about the process of cycle breaking and how the individual choice to go inward and to break those cycles can help us collectively move forward in this moment.

Dusah Wiseman 36:52

Oh yes, let's do that. Let's go deep with this. Um so I feel I need to break it up into two different parts, with first addressing like the victimhood side of things. And I feel it's very nuanced, right? Because it's true that we can create our reality, but the reality of that is that we are not responsible. We are responsible for how we respond to scenarios, but we aren't the reason something bad happened to us. And I think that oftentimes in the spiritual space, we we have these one-liners and we need to like elaborate on that to say, like, if a person is assaulted, that it's not their fault. It's not that they were asking for it. And I know that's not at all what you were saying. I just wanted to just share that because it's something that I have witnessed in this space that I want to just reverberate. Um, but what we are in control of is how we respond to these situations. And that is what creates the suffering. We can allow ourselves to suffer, or we can allow ourselves to find the medicine within that. And I speak about this in my book too. I say, I break down the etymology of suffering, which means to tolerate. And so, how much are you willing to tolerate within and without? Like when I have clients always say, like, you know, well, I had this realization that in order to really shift, we have to get so fed up with our bullshit. Like, we have to just get so fed up that we are willing to do what it takes to change. Because the reality is a lot of people want to change, but not many will do the work that it takes to change. And you have to reach that sort of breaking point where you're like, no, something's gotta give. Enough is enough. And as my Qi Gong Shifu, or you can say, it's not really an English word to say, I'll just say my guide in Qigong, he always likes to say, like, imagine that you have like in terms of letting go, because I I feel like victimhood is it's connected to this ability or this tendency to attach, to hold on tightly to something, the inability to let go. So if you imagine you were holding this sort of like hot cup and you were holding it underneath the faucet, letting the hot water just pour into that, how long before you'd feel the need to let that cup go? Chances are you would not hold on to it that long. I'm talking scolding hot water or boiling hot water even. You'd want to let that go quickly. And that's how quickly we can let things go. That's how quickly we can shift out of victimhood. But sometimes we become, we romanticize our suffering. It starts to feel good to feel that way. And so you really have to hijack that and conjure up that willpower to step out of that space. You have to get so fed up with your own BS. And when you do that, you reach this place of empowerment because you can't move forward and shift things and break the cycles if you remain in victimhood. Like you're gonna keep on finding yourself repeating that same old cycle because instead of you taking responsibility, you're placing it externally. So that means that anytime something external happens, it is going to dictate how well you feel. Now that's a kind of I'm I'm treading this lightly with what I'm saying, but also it kind of feels like it needs a little tough love to say that that's a horrible way to live when everything externally is affecting how you feel internally. It's not to say that we don't have emotions or that we can't be empathetic. I simply mean can you witness things around you that is happening without saying, like, okay, the external has to be a certain way for me to be happy, for me to choose joy. It really is a choice. We get to choose that joy. And even when the world is crumbling, even when your heart is aching, even when you know someone says this or does that to you, can you still hold on to that light and that joy within? And so, shifting now over to how can we tune into the essence of breaking cycles with the shift that we're witnessing in the world today, which I absolutely love, this question. And and so what I feel that we are witnessing right now is a system crumbling that needs to crumble. I mean, it was built on the backs of the very people they kicked down. And so it's if you think about it, and this is so connected, I love how you tie these two together because, in terms of victimhood as well, what you're witnessing is sort of like this far swing to the left, like when you think in terms of a pendulum. And so it's almost like this divine feminine rage is coming up to the surface because for so long, this toxic masculinity has been ruling the forefront. It has been having this, oh, I want to take, I want to own, I want to take over, I want to just that very just toxic masculine way. And we were losing sight of what it means to be in balance, to have reverence for both the divine masculine and the divine feminine. This is why I say the book is for every being, not just for those who consider themselves female. It's designed for everyone because we all have these energies within us and we need to balance that within us. Even our society has these energies that needs to come back into balance. And so when it seems as though things are crumbling in your life, or as we witness in the world, it's just this pendulum that's trying to balance its way out, like my odd balancing of the scales. And so eventually, what could be possible is we reach this middle ground, this coming point, this neutrality, where it doesn't have to swing too far left or to the right. And internally, when we can learn to say no, and in fact, and externally as well, when we can stop saying yes to the things that we don't want by learning to say no, no to systems of oppression, no to being friends with someone that we know their energy isn't good for our being, no to the wrong relationships, no to a uh a government that just is not taking the best interest of the people in heart. Like when we learn to start saying no more and to stop feeling helpless, that that victimhood makes you yourself feel helpless, then we can start to see a shift. And it's not to blame anyone for that, because everything that we are witnessing now, like we live in a time frame where with technology, everything is within our fingertips. And since we have such access to these things that can bring about a certain sense of numb of Numbness. Like, I don't think a lot of people even realize just how much they're on social media until they install an app or something that gives them a time limit. And then they're like, wow, I didn't realize I'm I'm on it this much. And so when there is a system in place that wants to feed off of your fear, that once you numb, that once you feel disempowered, one of the most radical acts we can do is tapping into that energy of being the cycle breaker and saying, no more, no more, no more. Because when we can learn to say no, then we can dismantle the things, the very same things that we despise, because our inability to say no to that, to just let it go on happening, is like we're saying yes to that. And so when we can tune into this energy of reclaiming our our power, of not feeling like the victim, understanding that yes, it's not okay, whatever happened to you, you have every right to feel sadness, you have every right to feel pain. That's the spectrum of being a human being. And also you have your you have every right to feel joy, to feel happy, to feel strong. And so which are you choosing to tolerate? Are you choosing to tolerate a society that doesn't have your best interests at heart? Are you choosing to tolerate disrespect within your own life so you disrespect yourself, or perhaps it started off with you disrespecting yourself? It's the method for coming into that place of empowerment where you take control and responsibility. And at least when you start with yourself, this energy can be rippled to everyone around you. You never know who you'll touch. Like I love the fact that I can share different spiritual themes that I've learned that has really impacted my life with my little brother who is still in the hood, and then he can go off and rub off on some of his friends, and it creates this ripple effect. So even when it may feel like the problem at hand is very large, you can very well cause this sort of ripple effect to happen with by focusing on the energy that's within you, by focusing on how can you be empowered, how can you break that inner cycle, how can you start saying no more.

Where To Start When You Feel Stuck

Jess 46:19

You name that so uh wisely, just like the idea that there's this divine feminine rage that's just like bubbling over. And yeah, that feels like really, really uh true in this moment. And just like your mention of needing to find balance again. You know, we do, we have to tear down these systems of oppression. We have to, you know, let them let them crumble so that we can build something new and something that feels like more balanced and something that's designed to like allow us to live in wholeness, right? Because these systems really weren't built to see us thriving. And so, yeah, I think cycle breaking is it's just such a huge part of that process right now for each of us. And it's it's you know, it it it can be, I think, a lot of work. Coming back to your book, I think it's such a helpful guide in walking somebody through what it means to be a cycle breaker and how to do it, and you know, to really have somebody to like walk with you side by side on that journey. I actually had a friend reach out today and she asked me directly. She said, um, you know, basically, like, where do I start? Like, how do I I know I have cycles that I need to break, where do I start? And so I sent her your book and I was like, here, this, this is where you start. Um, but you know, for somebody who knows that they need to go inward, for somebody who knows that they have cycles to break, and you know, maybe, maybe they have your book that they're getting ready to read as their guide, and maybe not. But either way, like, are there any like final words of encouragement or um, you know, just words of advice that you can offer to somebody who's just starting this process, which can feel daunting, but um really is like I think the foundation for the healing that we each need individually and and on a collective level.

Using Astrology And Human Design Clues

Closing Thanks And Book Link

Dusah Wiseman 48:38

First, uh thank you so, so much for for spreading my book with your dear friend, because that is exactly how I intended it to be, to be a moment where you can keep coming back to it and also you can share it with others. Um and so thank you for that. And so I could have approached cycle breaking from many different aspects, right? And many people they approach it from this aspect of looking into their family. Oh, I must understand what my family did before me. I must understand X, Y, and Z. A lot of people go towards different methodologies, different frameworks, but I didn't have any of that. And I am proof that you can break a cycle without having to have the intellectual knowledge of any of that. And I think that sometimes, especially with this age of information, we get so overloaded with so much different information that it's time to bring that back inwards into the body and into your own hands, to bring your healing back into your own hands. And that was one of the other big things that I wanted to share with this book is like the power has always been within your hands. And in fact, you're gonna see a lot of false prophets come up sharing this and that, just and a lot of people who are just copying off of the next creator, a lot of people who are just regurgitating, a lot of people who are just using ChatGPT, all of these different things. And so, what can be the most empowering is for you to bring the power back into your own hands. And with that being said, the first step is to becoming aware of these cycles. And I don't remember who said this, but you're gonna recognize this quote. Um, doing the same thing but expecting different results is insanity. And so you must first become aware of what's happening within your life. And you you have those moments where it's like, dang, I keep dating the wrong guys, or dang, this keeps happening. Whatever it may be, when that happens, in that moment, you must realize that you are not at the beck and call of something external from you, that you have the power to disrupt that. It's not just, oh, poor me, this is the way things are. No, you get to now redefine that, rewrite that, and create a new direction for your life. Now, unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way that this doesn't always look like, okay, if I'm doing the same thing, let me just do the opposite. Not exactly. But that's where you get to find that sweet balance in the middle, right? Because you're trying to bring yourself back to this equilibrium. So first you have to become aware of the cycle, and then you get to experiment, consider it as play. It doesn't have to be taken so serious, healing doesn't have to be so serious. You can start to play with this, and but first you look inside within you to say, what is it within me that is attracting this sort of thing? And oftentimes it's this um unresolved, I don't want to say issue, but unresolved experience that that happened um as a child or at different stages of your life that hasn't been resolved. And so that version of you is sort of acting out in your waking life, causing different things to happen. But that's where it gets fun. And I share different tools like that in the book where you get to bring that inner child to the forefront and say, okay, what's going on here? Um, but also, you know, you just it's not always that. It's just a matter of, listen, okay, how can I choose differently? How can I ensure that I'm, you know, shifting what I'm attracted to, shifting what excites me, shifting, you know, whatever the pattern is, you're shifting the energetics of that. And I think that we have to remember that we have that power. We can do that, we can choose differently. And it might come with kicking and screaming, that inner child might kick and scream, or just not even the inner child, the ego might kick and scream, but in the end, you have the power to shift that. And I feel like in this day and age, one of the most radical things that we can do is to stop looking externally for the answers and externally for the permission to be radically yourself. And I truly, truly hope that by reading my book that people become self-sourced to where I don't even want them leading me. I don't even want, I feel like we need to crumble this sort of energy where where everyone's like, hey, hey, hey, how can I help? That kind of gets rid of the fun of the journey, you know? Can you drown out the noise so that you become aware of the little, the jewels and this and the stones that are or the snacks, I think I even said in the book, that are being left behind for you on this trail to discover your own unique path, your own unique frequency, your own guidance, to come back to your own guidance, your own inner compass. And I feel like what we're witnessing at large, um, collectively, is seeing how so many cycles of the past did not work, how the oppression wasn't working, how the toxic masculinity was not working. And so the answer is to not just, okay, get rid of that and just bring in, okay, so just using it by example. It's not to say, okay, there's toxic masculinity, let's get rid of all masculinity and let's just amplify women. That is not the answer. That's doing the complete opposite. And what you're always gonna get is this sort of imbalance. So, no, we need to mellow out that toxic masculinity and to revere the divine feminine even more. Um, we need to stop doing these things that are damaging and harming the land and to start having reverence for the land, to start doing things that assist with the rejuvenation of it. We need to stop buying into corporations who, you know, maybe they have uh sweat factories or what do they call it, the child labor. We need to stop buying into that. And those cheap fabrics don't last long anyway. You keep having to feed that cycle. We need to instead start to invest in organic clothing or um a single ingredient clothing that actually amplifies our energy. We just need to stop feeding the machine, you know? So, where in your life are you feeding the machine, whether internally or externally? And how can you get gather back that power and that energy so that we can bring things back into this coherence, this equilibrium? Because right now we're seeing at a hole of things being um out of balance. We're seeing this energy of the cycle needing to collapse, the cycle needing to break. And so we can begin to facilitate that necessary shedding, that necessary crumbling, crumbling by also doing the work within us. Because, you know, sometimes I feel like with so much happening, one can feel disempowered. But no, you doing the work on you is necessary to that as well. It's not, oh, I need to be out there fighting and advocating and not just working on myself. No, you need to be working on yourself as well. And to understand that everyone has their own unique role to play in this thing called life. And so however you are feeling called to show up is the way that you need to show up for that. The more you suppress your own power, the more you suppress your own um inner light, then the more you're bringing issues to yourself, to your body, and even to those who are are meant to find themselves just from you shining your light. And so we need to just bring things back to the state of wholeness, and it begins with you. I see this sort of misinformation of people saying, Oh, it's bypassing to just focus on you. No, it's bypassing to act like it doesn't exist, but it's helpful to focus on you. So yeah, we just need to bring things back into this equilibrium and to have fun with it. You know, it doesn't have to be so serious. And just remember that you 100% do have control over your suffering. How you choose to tolerate the situations around you is in your control. And so to approach things from a space of empowerment and liberation, you have the liberation to choose. And so, yeah, let's own that. I want that for everyone. And so if there are others who are like, okay, that's great, I understand that, but still how? If they need some sort of direction of where to really look, maybe they are just so oblivious to the the way that they are um repeating certain cycles. What you can do is that you can turn to astrology, you can turn to human design, you can turn to gene keys, and just very briefly, because you know it's it's it would take a whole masterclass to really break that down, some key areas that you can look at within um, let's say, even human design, you can look at the themes of all you don't need to really dive fully into that, um, because it can be overwhelming from someone who's really new. But even something as simple as having the not self-theme, becoming aware of that. Okay, if I'm a projector and I keep finding myself becoming bitter about things, that means I'm not being myself. How can I bring myself back to this state of groundedness and centeredness? Um, in astrology, you can look towards your chiron, which is commonly known as the wounded healer, but Chiron is really showing us a level of or a space where we have the potential to reach self-mastery. And so you can work with your chiron, you can work with your south node. Your south node is who you for a brief explanation, it can be considered like who you were in your past life, who you were previously, which you had previously mastered, but here now you're here to go to this different direction, which is your north node. So you can look at how your south node, the sort of um, because you know, each sign has these pros and cons, I'll say. But the cons, in my opinion, are never really the cons. That's the energy that you can alchemize and you can work with. So the south node is like, what can you alchemize and work with so that you can stand truly in your north node. We also have um, you know, where your sixth house is located. That's your your daily routines, your daily rituals. How can you, because oftentimes it's what we're doing daily or what we have become habitual in that is preventing us from going to the next step. You can look within there. You can look where your Saturn is. Saturn is that discipline, that devotion. That sort of um I like to see Saturn as sort of redirecting you back to what is possible. Some people feel like it's very restrictive, like that dad energy, which it does have dad energy, but dad only wants what's best for you. So it's bringing you back into like what's best for you in that way. Um yeah, this is already becoming like a masterclass. I'm trying to like go through different points, but I'm just trying to briefly outline that the universe, the cosmos, you, yourself, through your body, it's so intelligent that even when you forget, you're left with clues and signals as to how to find your way back home. And so, you know, this can even look like with gene keys. Um, you notice there's different spheres there. There's on with those different spheres, there is sort of this shadow aspect that you can work on to bring you to the highest of aspect. So this is that's just a very, very general overview. Looks like I said, it's gonna take a whole master class, and perhaps I should create one um diving deeply into that. But I just wanted to let others know that it's very possible to, if they're like, I just still don't understand, I don't get this. What do I look? Okay, look at your your natal chart. Look at the how the stars were moving at the exact moment when you were born. That's also your your key back home. And yes, of course, my book, Dear Cycle Breaker. All of that is just meant to guide you back to yourself and to have this remembrance that the power has always been with you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for this beautiful conversation. I'm so grateful.

Jess 1:01:14

All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. I am just so grateful for Dussa spending the time with us and just sharing so much from her heart about this book, Dear Cycle Breaker. Again, you will find the link in show notes. And if you have any questions, you know how to find me. Bye guys.