45. Raising Emotionally Alive Kids with Rashad Young

We talk a lot on this show about how emotional suppression gets conditioned into us. But what about the generation living in the aftermath of everything we've built — and everything we've passed down?

This episode is about kids. Specifically, why we keep calling Gen Z lazy when what they actually are is overwhelmed, overstimulated, and emotionally under-resourced in a world that was already broken before they got here.

I sat down with Rashad — school counselor, speaker, and therapist in training — for one of the most grounding conversations I've had on this show. We talk about what emotional safety actually looks like in real life. Not in theory. In your home, in your relationships, in a classroom full of teenagers who have never been taught to answer the question: who are you to you?

We cover why men get trained out of vulnerability early, why women get punished for expressing emotion at all, and how jumping into solution mode — however well-intentioned — can quietly shut someone down. Rashad breaks down what it actually means to stay present with someone who is struggling, and why removing your ego is the prerequisite for any real repair.

Then we zoom out. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are navigating nonstop dopamine loops, post-COVID nervous systems, social media comparison, economic anxiety, and a future that feels stacked against them before they've even started. Lazy isn't the right word. Burned out before adulthood is closer.

But there is hope here. Real hope — not the performative kind. This conversation is full of it.

If you are a parent, a teacher, a partner, or anyone who loves a young person and wants to do better by them, this one is for you.

About Rashad Rashad is a school counselor, speaker, and therapist in training who has dedicated his work to helping young people feel seen, safe, and emotionally equipped for the world they're navigating. He works on the front lines of the youth mental health crisis every day — in classrooms, hallways, and one-on-one conversations that most adults never get to witness. His approach is grounded, practical, and deeply human.

Find Rashad on Instagram @rashadyoung_ and Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/rashad.a.young

If this episode spoke to you, it would mean the world if you took a moment to leave a review or share it with a friend who needs it. And make sure you hit follow so you never miss an episode of Conditioning to Consciousness.

You can connect with me on Instagram @jesscallahan_, join my Substack community at conditioningtoconsciousness.substack.com, or explore more of my work at jesscallahan.com.

My Back in the Body Nervous System Healing course is now available! Find it here.

Thanks for listening — I’m so grateful you’re here.

If this episode spoke to you, it would mean the world if you took a moment to leave a review or share it with a friend who needs it. And make sure you hit follow so you never miss an episode of Conditioning to Consciousness.

You can connect with me on Instagram @jesscallahan_, join my Substack community at conditioningtoconsciousness.substack.com, or explore more of my work at jesscallahan.com.

My Back in the Body Nervous System Healing course is now available! Find it here.

Thanks for listening — I’m so grateful you’re here.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Meet Rashad

Allegra Chapman 0:02

Hi guys. Welcome back to the Conditional to Consciousness Podcast. And welcome back after a short break. I took a small break last week as I was traveling to visit a friend. And I'm just I'm really excited to be back this week. Sharing this conversation with you today, I promised it was worth the wait, or it will be worth the wait. In this episode, I'm speaking with Rashad Young. He's a school counselor, speaker, and therapist in training, and he works with young people every day. So in this episode, we talk a lot about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. And for those of you who aren't familiar, Gen Zers are technically between the ages of like 14, 16-ish, and 29 as I record this. And then Gen Alpha is anyone between like one-ish and then that like 14, 16-ish range. You know, there's like cuspers in the middle, the parameters are always a little bit undefined. But what we do know is that there is a new generation being born beginning in 2025 and later. So and that'll be Gen Beta. Anyway, so back to the generations and the conversation. In this conversation, we get into the stigma that Gen Z specifically faces how they're not actually lazy, they're just living in the aftermath of this challenging world that we've sort of like left them to negotiate. We talk about like how they're facing nonstop dopamine loops, uh, post-COVID stress, social media comparisons, economic anxiety, and all of these things that like together have shaped the nervous system of an entire generation. So we talk a lot about how important it is to teach young people to be vulnerable and how to be in touch with their emotions. And Rashad is really leading the way with his students in this area. He's working every day to model these traits, teach students how to figure out who they really are, and prepare them for the real world. You know, I say it in the episode, and I'll say it again here, um I just think that teachers like that are the teachers that students really remember and that make a really big impact. And I think that there's something in this episode that all of us can learn from, whether we have children of our own or, you know, whether we're just interacting with or um, you know, aware even of the younger generations. This gives us some insight into really like what's actually going on. So let's dive in. All right, Rashad, thank you so much for being here with me today. Super excited to have this conversation. Um, I think before we dive in, I would love for you to just give me a little bit of info about like who you are and and how you got here.

Rashad 2:44

No, well, thank you just for having me. Uh first off, that question is always unique because there's so many different ways you can answer. Like, who am I to the world? So I say uh naturally, you know, you got the basic characteristics, like what I do. I'm a school counselor by day, uh, I'm a counselor by training by night. I have to say counselor and training, just in case there's ever a therapist that ever watches or listens to this, uh, that I'm in the process of becoming a licensed therapist. Uh I see kids uh to adults, couples. I've been doing that for a few years. So just really trying to get the licensed stuff going through. I'm an author, I'm a speaker. Uh but on top of that as well, I am a son, a grandson, a brother, cousin, and friends too many.

Jess 3:24

I love that. I I love opening the podcast with that question because I think that everybody, like, we could be totally different people on any different day, right? And like we get to decide who we're who we are and how we're showing up. And so um, so just thank you. Thank you for being here. A lot of your work. So you so you said you work with students, you work with adults, you um, I've been following your content on social media, and I just I love your like grounded perspective that like just like this is stuff we have to do. Like, this is if we're gonna get, if we're gonna heal and we're gonna get where we're going, like you just you have to do this, right? Um what made you want to, I don't know, just become become a counselor, become a therapist, and uh yeah, just like I guess how did you get this approach that's so grounded?

Rashad 4:15

Uh that's funny. So it's always I always say that I'm very fortunate of how my experience happened because it wasn't like I just knew. My mother always knew, so I always give her credit. My mom always said she saw me as a as a counselor and educator. For me, I had aspirations actually to be an informist. Uh, and I almost felled out of school myself one year at the University of Missouri. So she was right. But I think the sense of adversity gave me a second chance to try something different. Growing up, I had siblings. I do have siblings, but for the most part, most of my life, I've always kind of viewed myself as an only child because me and my stepbrother, we have the same birthday. We're a backstory, but we're very individualized. Uh so me having siblings later in life on my father's side, having two little sisters, I always viewed kids like different, right? I never was like, I don't I never said I want to work with kids. I never said that in my life. But I think just taking that risk and listening to my mom, I got into a world of understanding how important it is to be an educator. And so that was the first step. And I got into the space working out at elementary school, then I did admissions at a college, and something about it I was missing. I was missing the direct uh connection. And that's what I kind of got from teaching, but I never had aspirations of being a teacher at first. I didn't, I had no aspirations at all. And so what really pivoted was two things. I had the opportunity to work in a middle school in Chicago for a year that I think changed my life. But then also, I think going just through my own steps of adversity, uh, just struggling with mental health in my younger 20s. Like most of us do, we don't really talk about it. I I recognize that there was a lack of representation in the counseling space, not just race, but just men. Just there's not a lot of men in counseling at all. And so when you think about men and emotions, we don't often talk about our emotions a lot. And so I always fight growing up. I was a more of an emotional kid. Uh, but I also had like a deep found perspective and uh compassion and understanding for different people. I think it's been a gift of mine, also a curse just because of what's happened to me in in life. But I think when you are in the profession and you're working, helping out people, you have a better understanding of why we are the way we are. So I think my grounded perspective is more so it's just acknowledging effect that we're all messed up here, right? And I think we're very, we're very quick to throw labels for things and for different reasons. I don't think it's a right or wrong thing, but instead of focusing on the label, let's focus on how we can actually work through this thing together. Because we don't have a a key to how our life experiences are gonna go. We kind of get dealt the hand of cards, and uh we just have to learn how to navigate with that. Kind of going back to teaching. Now, I'm even teaching a psychology class to seniors, and I've been kind of my form of teaching them is not necessarily about psychology, but because every day that we uh live is a form of psychology. More so how do these moments connect to you understanding yourself in the future? Because with them, because they're older, they sometimes they don't have a sense of urgency for me sometimes. And I get it. They're 17, 18 years old, and I love them enough. They're all like little brothers to me, but they I want them to get it because I don't want them to make the same mistakes that I did. And I very much stretched that to them. I actually was very candid with them last class, just sharing some of my struggles in my 20s, just being told certain things and not listening. Yeah, I tell them all the time, I just want you to listen. You guys consider yourselves to be young men. What does that actually mean? Like let's actually start diving into that. Not what society tells you, not what your parents have told you, why it can be valuable. Like, but what do you actually interpret that to be as? And so it actually led to a very uh candid conversation. But the biggest thing I think it resonated with them, I think, was me just sharing some of my struggles. Because adults you don't usually share your struggles with kids at all. You kind of tell them this is the way of life, and this is why. Instead of doing that, my approach is you all are old enough to conceptualize what I'm saying. And let me tell you why. Let me show you why it's important to be vulnerable enough to share these things so you can understand, like, oh, okay, this guy that we're we're kind of knowing, we know a little bit. He's so he trusts us enough to share some of these things. And he's telling us this because he he cares that we don't make the same mistakes. And a lot of them share the gratitude afterwards. So I know it's a little bit of a long, long-winded story, but essentially my grounded approach, I think honestly, comes from uh the main thing is just recognizing that a lot of things in our life are gonna happen to us. And a lot of it is out of our control. And so I think the older I've gotten and got a better sense of control myself, because I wasn't always like this, uh, is just recognizing the uh input and impact that we have with the choices that we make. So I just try to make things more clear and dry for us to uh digest.

Jess 9:15

Wow, I think like you named a couple of things there that are, I don't know, I think like just big, big struggles that we're facing like just generally speaking, right now, like even just like being able to express emotion to kids being able to show up in vulnerability. I think like our relationship with emotions is really like messed up on a like systems level because you know, women maybe are told that to express emotion means you're too loud or irrational or overreacting, and men are expected to not show emotion at all. And then we don't get to live in in wholeness. And I think about my like 12-year-old, and he's newly in middle school and he comes home from school, and the the stories he tells me willingly are the teachers, you know, like and I say willingly, like, you know, he's 12, so he comes home and like, what'd you do at school today? Nothing. Yeah, yeah, what'd you learn today? I don't know. Yeah, and so when he does share something, it'll be like, Oh my gosh, this teacher told me something. And it it'll be about a moment that like a teacher opened up vulnerably and um just shared something about like himself. And so I'm like, I'm feeling what you're saying through the eyes of my son. Like, what do you think changes for kids when you're able to show up for them in that way?

Emotional Safety Between Men And Women

Rashad 10:42

Um I think it's just it goes back to relatability. I think sometimes adults, even us, you know, parents or uncles, whatever, we say a lot of things to be protective. And while I think it's a beautiful thing, I think especially for kids, uh, they learn through adversity. Uh, I emphasize sometimes with young boys that that is how they become a better man. They learn more through their failures. Um, but they also, when you can share things in a sense that is compassionate and a wait for them to see the world in that same lens that you once did, it makes it, it makes them feel comfortable enough to do that. And it's no different than with women. I the thing that you mentioned about uh just women expressing emotions and being viewed a certain way. Uh, when I have sessions with clients, I always tell women that that's honestly the superpower. Like you guys have the biggest superpower in the world of being able to express so freely that sometimes a lot of us as men, we want to do that, but because of the stigmas or because of the things that we've been taught, it is hard to do that. Um and that's not, again, and I tell people all the time, it's not a woman's responsibility to necessarily be uh a safe space alone, especially as adults. Like a lot of things that we deal with happen in our childhood. So your girlfriend or your wife is not responsible alone to make you be emotionally vulnerable at all. So I never say that's a bad thing. I think uh where I do, when I do have these conversations with women in the client's sense, it just ask them the question uh not can you handle it, but how would you handle it if a man expresses himself? Because I've gotten different answers. Uh some like, well, as I kind of expand upon why it's a little complex, and like I can see why they wouldn't do that. Because it's one of those things where if you're having a bad day and he's having a bad day, whose emotions is going to matter more? Naturally, the person who is bothered with their own emotions is gonna matter more. So yeah, to keep that in mind because of the biology of between men and women, naturally, women can have you all just your whole cycle's different. Right. So as men, we're trying to figure out what is exactly going on. Sometimes you're just having a bad day because it's just your all's time of the month. So we don't necessarily understand that, but that's really just you all's biology. Um so I think what tends to happen is because uh we I know we talked about this before we had this, but just like the idea of masculinity sometimes is very black and white. When it should be more complex and understanding, I think when I talk to clients, especially about this, you know, it's more so it's and sometimes men do this bad instead of we go straight to a solution once something's wrong with a woman, uh, instead of just kind of being there and being present. I think sometimes women don't ask enough questions to understand. Or if they do ask enough questions in the moment where uh potential emotions are involved, sometimes they can get though mech in a man's face. No different than a woman, but I'm just saying that I think the difference is sometimes if that happens to that man once, he will never open up again. So it's no different than a kid when he grows up and he shares something with mom or dad and immediately gets shuts off. After a while, young boys especially, they learn how to shut it off. I'm not feeling hurt. Okay. This persona that I begin to stress with my seniors about. We start creating personas, which is through our athletics or through a sense of status or money or et cetera. So uh we just don't ask enough questions, I guess. And I think that's the best way we can go about it. We ask enough questions and we're willing to share things and why we are saying saying these things truthfully, not because the world's telling us to, or I'm not trying to protect you, but you know, this happened to me when I was 15. And this is why I believe I'm sharing this with you. I don't want you to experience this. We don't go as far as in depth with why we tell kids certain instructions. So I think when I shared that to them the other day, they I think they got it before, but they really got it. It was like, oh, he really went through some things. And so he's just making sure that we don't make the same mistakes. And he's not chastising us for making these child mistakes, he is telling you why you should probably avoid making these continuous mistakes while applying them to different situations of your life.

Jess 15:24

So yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for normalizing like a lot of what you just covered there, like the need to ask more questions, modeling that it's like I think sometimes we don't ask questions. I think a lot, not just like we being women or men or women, but I think like when we don't know how they'll be received, when we don't know if somebody else, like we don't want to make someone else uncomfortable by asking them a question because we're uncomfortable with like their discomfort. Um, even just like when you were going on about the um, you know, if a woman's like mad about something and it's like her time of the month or whatever, but even just like that container stuck out to me because it's like there's not a historical like place to have for those discussions to be normal, you know, like to even just be able to be like once a month, like this is what happens to me. Like my hormones might be feeling a little bit crazy, and I need to just be able to tell you, like, just give me a minute. It's gonna take me an extra minute right now. Um, we just there's just not that openness. And I think what I'm hearing you say is like by modeling that to like to the kids and in and with your clients, like you're able to really just, I don't know, help them take a step back and be like, what are what are the patterns that I'm really uh perpetuating and and what can I change? Um, I think a lot of it comes down to like being understood. Um yeah. You okay?

Rashad 16:58

Yeah, I don't uh it could I think another thing is that I've also have failed tremendously in that particular department with a few people, especially in my 20s, as far as uh being able to really hear what they're saying without getting defensive. I think that was probably one of my biggest issues. Um, that when I really, really realized I was causing harm, um that's when I realized I need to really work on that. Uh it was it was something that regardless of what happened, I still think things happen because they were supposed to happen that way. If any like a relationship, whatever, if it truly ends, I immediately go back and I start thinking about all the things that I did wrong. Uh and sometimes I can make peace with that, and sometimes I'd have to sit with that for a while, and I may I've only done it once, but reach out to that person and genuinely apologize. Um because you you you start recognizing that, yeah, the thing ends, and I really want to work on that because I can't I think sometimes because of how when I do, how I present myself on social media, which is usually 95% accurate, um I never wanted to seem like I always had it together. I've actually I've learned more from those mistakes um and just took a real inward look. Like I've never, I've always told myself I never wanted any woman I was connected to to ever feel unsafe emotionally. And I could think of several situations where I probably have failed in that regard. Not because I didn't understand, but because I did not have a better sense of emotions within myself, and I really could not take a step back like I can now. Right? Again, still I do still think the same result happens. So it wasn't just me, but when I look back at it, I'm like, uh you were not good in these particular places, and especially with emotions, because again, how we view emotions are totally different. I I've learned not to always try to find a solution. That's that's why the biggest thing I've learned is like, you know, sometimes it's they're not asking for a solution, they're they're just asking to be heard. And it's complex. Like a lot of guys could hear this and be like, I try to do this. And it's like, yeah, we're trying, but because of how we are naturally, we're trying to find solutions. And sometimes they just want you to feel or at least be what they're feeling. You don't necessarily have to be as sad, but they just for you to understand. And you let them have that moment, and then you you come back from there. So I think after a few situations, I just really thought about it, and I just told myself I don't want to feel that again. Uh, I know one day I may have a daughter. I know how I am, so I know that's something that I never wanted her to feel if I ever have that experience where well or a son, but I just think more of a again with women especially, that's always been important to me because mostly you all biology is centered around feeling. Feeling something. And so instead of trying to figure out exactly what you all are feeling, allow you all to feel and be in that world of understanding and hopefully go from there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jess 20:30

But it is, it's it's about just trying to understand, put yourself in the other person's shoes, right? Like that's a big realization, being like she just wants this emotion to be witnessed. Like we don't have to solve it, but it's just like like the amount of relief I feel. Um, and it takes me, it took me a long time to name, you know, that that's what I was like needing, even just like from conversations with my husband and stuff. Like, I just need to be witnessed in this moment. We don't have to fix it, but just like let me sit in this feeling and let me do that with somebody else nearby.

Rashad 21:02

Um you just said the main thing. I just wanted to acknowledge that part. Okay, that's the one thing we struggle with too. You said in this moment. That's what it always is. It usually is in the moment. And then most of us will think about every other moment. And that's now what's the thing I remember. I it kept getting drilled in my head, and I it was not clicking. It was not that they weren't mad, they could have been mad with other things, but it's just like they were focusing on this particular moment, and I could not see it for the life of me at all. Because I am thinking about everything else. When it's like, okay, you take a step back and you really start listening to that, it's like, oh, it's not like right now. Okay, yeah, I I was just too stubborn to really pay attention. So I just wanted to mention that.

Presence Over Fixing The Problem

Jess 21:52

Yeah. So okay, well, what do you think, like, what do you think we can all do to I think Like turn into that moment a little bit more, whether through the lens of like a parent to a child and helping them um experience their emotions in a healthier way or just in our interpersonal relationships.

Rashad 22:15

I think it everything is just about being present, really. I think I can take it on a personal level, like I'll be 31 in a couple weeks, but I think somehow reason I turned 30 and I just had like this weird epiphany. I feel like I was so busy on not being present. And I think that just recognizing every moment as a thing that's kind of created with it. So I think what we can really do is try to be more present in these situations, try to remove our ego from these situations, um, which is another thing that both sides really struggle with. Um it's that we often hear things and we automatically get defensive, we feel attacked. Um, I know the parent-child relationship is very complex, and I think why I love working with kids is because they do teach you a lot. I mentioned in last class several points that the student made because he made several valid points. Instead of going home and like thinking that they're crazy, I went to the student the next day one-on-one and told him that I appreciate what he shared because I actually did learn something. He wasn't wrong. I didn't think that I knew the answers to everything. And I think sometimes, again, going back to when parents give instructions, they tell you what you should do and they don't tell you why. And when you don't have the moment of allowing the kid to express themselves, uh, especially without the being defensive, we're missing out on moments that we wonder why a kid is a certain way or why a certain relationship is a certain way. Yes, kids should still understand authority, uh, but we also need to be teaching our kids more autonomy. How do we want our kids to be, you know, free and critical thinkers? If every time that they say something, it's automatically met with a rebuttal. That's not helping them, that's that's causing more harm. So that's that's the thing. I think is being present and um just trying to be engaging and open to whatever is going to be said, even if it hurts. I mean, sometimes you gotta hear the things that hurt to really understand. And what half the time when you realize you're hurt, it's just your ego. It's what you thought was supposed to be the way. And then there's like, you know, your ego is bruised because there's some truth behind it. So that's what I think about that.

Why Gen Z Gets Misread

Jess 24:27

And it's not always like when you do have that moment where you have to hear the hard thing, like it's not about changing the past, different outcomes. Um, I think it's just about building us, like living in wholeness as we like for our future, right? It's about like having a better future and maybe, maybe going back to like something you said earlier, um maybe there's like apologies that we want to make or just like repair that we want to do so that we can move on. But really, like sitting in that uncomfortable moment where it's like that's a hard thing to hear, is if you can sit with it, you you're able, I think, to like shift and just, I don't know, quality of life changes. Life is just like better interpersonally and and for ourselves when we can like do that. Um okay, so I want to switch gears a little bit. You have talked about Gen Z specifically and how they're misunderstood. And before we started recording, we I think we were talking a little bit about how you know this can apply to kids, like even I don't know all the technicalities, but like Gen Alpha too. So like middle school, high school, like um, but a lot of them are, I think we misunderstand them. I think that there is like a there's an assumption that they're like lazy, they don't want to work, they're you know, like, especially if we're wedged between these generations of like boomers, for example, or even Gen X, I guess, um, in some instances. Yeah. Where, but, but even like where it's like, yeah, like I worked so hard, like I I broke my back to get here, and they don't even want to work. And there's like all this tension. So why do you think that like this Gen Z slash older alpha, why do you think they're so misunderstood?

Rashad 26:15

Uh so we don't want to go in their world. That's half the that's half the problem. And I think we we don't want to take onus on exactly how we got here. Uh most people that have created the advancement of technologies are people that are in their early 30s, mid-40s, 50s, right? And they're thir the the intention was to make some part of humanity simpler, or simple. I think what happened is that we never went and thought about the children. Because we were taking advantage of it. So I think COVID really I think COVID's really like the best example of that, right? We had a world pandemic. Um many people were affected, but the kids were affected. Why? Because they were stuck at homes. And when everybody's in this house crammed up, people are trying to not deal with, you know, trying to find a way to create space. I won't say not deal with each other, but try to find a way to create space. So what is often used as a form of separation is this home. It is technology, it's gaming, right? It's iPads. Now, most of these kids are given an iPad before they actually can conceptualize how to walk, think for themselves, et cetera. And because these kids are so smart, they are figuring out because of the daily use every day. So that's part of it. Half of their life is instant. They can immediately get any answer they want or any source of entertainment in the matter of seconds just by simply searching something. So that's part of the problem. Second part of the problem is just that the system itself needs to be adjusted. Um, and when I say system, just more so all the systems, communication, education, everything. And so when I've had this uh conversation or these talks or these presentations on this topic, it's always been different variations of it, which is really unique. So even for me to get to this topic, it was I had several presentations uh just about understanding teenagers, and then I did one about teenagers and AI, and like it it was all these different things. And so this one was just like uh I start thinking, because you just start hearing stuff. And I just kept thinking about these kids are lazy. These kids are lazy, and then it's like, what is what is our concept of lazy? Because I know full-grown adults that are lazy. They don't have any ambitions and drive no different than a teenager. Then the caveat is that teenagers from a biological standpoint still developing. So we can't call one side lazy without calling the other side lazy. Like the whole point is to hold a mirror up and say that we're just as responsible for this quote-unquote laziness instead of just put it on them. Can they be lazy? Absolutely. But what is causing it? They are overstimulated because of all of the just really the hits of dopamine they get every day. They have they have written routines on how they're gonna go through the day. The screen time is god-awful, but mine has god-awful, right? So I can't speak on that. Sure, schools are taking phones out. It's a great concept. But again, their everyday life looks different than most of us growing up. I grew up being outside all day. My first phone was a flip phone. They don't know what that is, right? So their entire world has changed. I think why they're also misunderstood is because their language is different. They say the craziest things, like I hate 6-7 with the answer. But what I started to learn, because what I do every day as a counselor, my strength has always been building relationships. I picked up on that when I first started doing admissions. Like that was when I realized, like, that I mean, I feel like me doing admissions gave me that skill. That gave me the skill for that, and it started giving me the confidence for public speaking. Then when I did it, when I worked in the middle school in Chicago, I really realized I really started building relationships with kids. I would start going to this fifth and sixth grade class. And this one I it was just something I was just doing that I didn't know what to do. My dad, I was still new. I would just start playing basketball with them. And that was something that they started looking forward to. And they started telling other kids about that. And so when people ask about counselors, to me, it's not just about sitting in the office all day, sending emails and talking to about college. Half of my job, if not more, is about building relationships. So I have a thing I do every day here where I literally go downstairs, go to hit the kids have breakfast, and I try to greet or acknowledge or talk. It started with like a group of kids that I knew, but it started becoming a thing with other kids. So I realized that some kids just want to be acknowledged. And we don't take the time to, and it's not just a slap in education space, just as us as the adults. Sometimes we are so quick to label that we again that we don't ask questions. We don't ask anything. We don't take the time to understand. We just think they're doing the most annoying things. But they're also, we were also kids at one point. We did things that doesn't make any sense. So, yes, two things can be true. They can be lazy, but also think that they struggle with anxiety and depression at a enormous rate. There's really a book called The Anxious Generation. So we obviously are aware that they have a mental struggle. And what we know about anxiety and depression is that it does have a physical effect on our body. Which usually does something to do with or connect with something with sleeping. We're not feeling motivated. So why are we calling them something that we have to have di we have a diagnosis for what is connected to that behavior? Some kids aren't sleeping well because they're doing this. Like it's so many things. We just we don't ask enough questions. So what I've learned is that if you lean into them and you try to understand them, you try to be in some regards. Yeah, there's gonna be moments they they test your patience and you want to say everything underneath the sun that you won't say because they don't lose your job. But there's a truth that they will respect you more because they see that you're willing to understand them. It's not you don't they don't it's not hard. You don't have to. I mean, kids, these kids actually know when you're being authentic versus not. They can tell when you're faking it. Because I just start picking up on small things they would share with me, and I would mention it when I would see them, and they'd be like, oh wow, they remember it. So that's more so for this space of education. Like we we have to do a better job with that. We signed up to be here. Most people don't sign up to be in education. So if you're gonna be here, you might as well do your part. And, you know, as I mentioned before, the kids, the kids are the customer in the space. And what do we know about customer service? The customer's always right. So we need to start attending to the customer a lot better instead of blaming them for everything.

Dopamine Loops And Phone Childhoods

Jess 33:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not uh what you just spoke about, like regarding just like understanding kids better, it's almost like a mirror of the conversation we we just had about like men and women understanding each other. It's really just like a matter of taking the time to understand each other, to validate, you know, find each other's experiences valid, take a moment to just sit in what they might be experiencing. But like on that same note, I think about, I mean, like, yeah, when I was younger, I was outside and we didn't, you know, we knew like I'll date myself for a year for a bit here, but like when when I was like my kid's age, we had like dial up AOL with like that. You know, you had like we were we went on for maybe 20 minutes a day or something. At my house, we had windows and we knew like that was our window, you could be on for 20 minutes and and that was it. And now like the kids have they have 20 24-7 access to each other. Like you don't get to go home and have a break from like social pressure or like the digital landscape. It's like it follows you to bedtime depending on parents and screen time rules and all of that. Like they really they don't have the tools to self-regulate. And we're not doing them any favors by just like giving them, you know, just like allowing them full access to all of the things that keep them dysregulated, right? Like yeah, yeah.

Filters Identity And The VR Future

Rashad 34:45

Why so because I think the so the hard part is like their worlds are so immersed in both worlds. Like, you know, the the digital world is just as important as their as their physical one. So I don't know if you've ever seen uh God, I'm tired to think about it. It's a film, uh gosh, that's one of my favorite films. I'm so mad I know about it. Essentially, and it's gonna come up randomly, uh, it's about a movie about these people that live in a VR world. It's not Maze Runner. And I'm so mad I don't know it. It's uh I'm gonna have to sit on that one. Anyways, a lot of these kids they're born into both sides of that world. So sometimes their Instagram or their Twitch or their TikTok, you know, profiles matter more to them from a self-esteem standpoint than who they are in real life. You know, a lot of these kids who live in that highlighted uh generation stage, again, everything they see on a daily basis is highlights. So they're not worried about what's happening in real life. If I got 10,000 followers on Instagram, I'm really that person. I don't have to worry about what my teachers think or anything like that. Because um it matters to me too, you know. Gamers. Like the the world, like they're that's that's why it's a catch 22. So sometimes people are like the best thing to do is to take away the phones. Okay. That works, but okay, when was the first time they got their phone? If they got it at two and now they're being totally get rid of it, which again in schools that makes sense because you're trying to find a way to create some sense of control and regulation. But think about all the stuff they are exposed to way before that. Think about how their self-esteem has been influenced by that because of what they see. You know, I think the one of the worst things that's was ever created for phones was filters. The worst thing. And we all use them. So some people use it for cinematography, videos, but photos. Just like, but it to me, a lot of like the normal stuff that we um our age struggle with has gotten enhanced. So like image, so they turn it back to both boys and girls, especially teenagers, their image is everything. So kids will take away uh they'll take away a post on Instagram if it doesn't have enough likes. Right? Or they will it will repost it to make sure that it is connected. I figured out the movie, Ready One Player One. I knew it. So like that movie to me was like the beginning of the the pinnacle of where this life is going. So like VR, Meta, we haven't even talked about the amount of money that a lot of these corporations are putting into that because that is where the world is shifting to. So these kids are gonna be more immersed more than ever. That's why I said Catch 22. It's like, yeah, we can take away this stuff, but they're gonna also have to use it. So it's more so like it's one of those things you just have to adapt with if that is what it's gonna be. You try to try to find a way to help them still build their self-esteem along the way. Because their self-esteem is being affected by the phone to do it.

Jess 38:02

Yeah, that I feel like that opens a just like totally different can of worms because it's like you you okay, so if you think about like the principle in psychology where you have like the ideal self and the real self, and when there's like dissonance between the ideal self or the idealized self, which is like the the you know, self that you portray to the world, who you think you should be, right? And then the real self is like who you are at your core, whether you realize it or not. Um, I know you know these things because you teach psychology, but I'm just explaining it for the sake of anyone who doesn't know it. Um, so like when you have that dissonance, so kids are like you, they're really like in engrossed in like social media as they're building their own sense of identity and it's like their idealized self, the filters. But as parents, modeling healthy behaviors, like I feel like I'm in a generation where we were never like taught to have a to find our real self. Like there's a lot of people who are doing the work ourselves to find the real self so that we don't have that dissonance. But that's a really hard thing to have a generation of people who like maybe don't understand that dissonance, trying to model to kids how to be authentic. And yeah, and now we have filters and all this other stuff, and so we're like, just take the phone away. But um, they have to figure out how to form their identity either way.

Teaching Teens To Know Themselves

Rashad 39:29

That's the that's that's literally I literally am having my students do that right now.

Jess 39:35

Like, how are you doing that?

Rashad 39:37

So how I again my channel is a little different. I I was inspired by um uh Dead Poet Society, Robert Robert Williams, uh Robin Robin Williams character on um how he taught. Um and I've kind of expressed that in conferences before. You have to shift if you can, depending on the subject. I know every subject you can. Uh you have to shift the approach to make sure kids are going to buy in. Um a lot of mine have been interactive based by using simple things. So the last week I um was trying to teach them about agency and self-preservation. So I gave each of them two Uno cards, and that's how I started off. I was like, this is the hand you've been dealt with in life. And as each rule or step came more, they start forming teams, and they think we're playing Uno. And I kept stressing to them, this is not Uno. But they're getting into it. And so I'm throwing in different obstacles along the way, and I'm trying to connect it with, you know, you need to be careful who you associate yourself with, because they ended up having to take each other out. Like I'm teaching them different concepts of psychology, or they had to give their cards. If they had a certain card, they have to give it to somebody that I feel like they all would love, and not to realize that they signed their life away by like making a bad choice, like going to a school or taking a job, and then like I found a way to connect it along the way. Uh, but the thing was I wanted them to think for themselves. The one thing that I always tell them is to question everything. So I've apologized, I've apologized to their teachers outside of me on uh their behalf because of that. But I want them to do that. So even now, I am literally having them present two or three minutes on five fundamental questions. Who are you to you? What do you value when you feel uncomfortable? What choices are you making to go that way? What's the fourth one? One is with Eric Eric Erickson and identity and role confusion. I think the fifth one is um has to do something with aspiration. But they struggled, because I made them sit for 30 minutes to like start. And some of them was like, I'm having a hard time here. And this is a very talkative group for perspective. So for them to have a hard time about anything that requires them to talk, that's the funny part. But to talk about themselves is a challenge. And as I'm talking to them while they're struggling, I said, okay, I told you, everything that I do connects to something outside of here. It's not just about the class. Some of you all will go to college for four or five years, you will graduate, and you'll be at a job interview, and the first question they're gonna ask you is tell me something about yourself. And most of you all will freeze if you don't have that answer. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have you talk about yourself. I said, because you guys are so quick to talk about each other. But y'all don't know how to talk about yourself because you don't know yourself. And which is fine. Like that the thing is, like I even told them, if you after this activity, you still don't know. I'm gonna ask you questions to challenge you to figure that out. Because it's not about what I think, it's not about what your parents think while they matter, it's just more so what do you think about yourself? Because they all do various things. Some are athletes, some are theater kids, you right, but they're going to school next year. And I keep trying to stress it to them that it's not gonna be too many people after this that are going to stop and genuinely ask you these things. The expectations of yourself solely fall on you and perceptions of other people. That is it. I haven't stressed that. They're probably getting tired of me saying that, because I literally say it every class. But I want them to get it, but also want them to understand who they are. Um but I don't think again, I don't think we have challenged all of our kids to do that.

Jess 43:44

Yeah, I I think they're so locked. I'm sorry, it could be.

Rashad 43:48

No, no, that's fine. That's it. No, I was just saying, 'cause they were distracted, and that was it.

Jess 43:51

But that's like I don't think that I think that's been so lost for so long. And I think it's so cool. They're gonna remember. You, they're going to remember this class because, you know, in 10, 15, however many years, I'm just like, however many years that they have kids, and then they're going through the motions of life that life sort of demands on us. Kids are no kids, but there comes a point for a lot of people right now where we're like, how did I get here? How did I lose myself? Who am I? Because it's like you slowly give as you get older. From this point forward, you go into college, maybe, and then you go, you get a job. And maybe you have kids, maybe you get married, but you give bits of yourself away along the way and you don't pull them back. And so you end up somewhere and you're like, I have no clue who I am or how I got here. But like these kids, as they listen to you and as they have an adult in their life saying, like, this is on you, I think that's gonna come back for them. I think they're really lucky to have that um modeled for them now because that's a really hard thing to overcome later in life.

Economy Burnout And Rejecting The Script

Rashad 44:58

I hope so, because they stress me out. They stress me out. Um, I just want them to get it. You know, I just want them to get it because, you know, I think all of us, if we just had one, and I feel like anybody in this industry, working with kids, especially, they probably have said something in that regard. I don't think it's just me, so I'm gonna take all the credit. But I think it's again, I've very everything I've done in this particular moment with them has been very intentional. From the films that we have watched to the conversations we have had, from the things that I've tried. It's because I'm trying to show them that all these things connect to outside this classroom. That's all psychology is. Yes, there's theorists, yes, there's history, there's tests. I could talk about that. Does it do much for me? No, because they're probably going to forget about it, and that's not really what's important for them to grab right now, especially as they're about to graduate in a couple weeks. That doesn't matter. More so it's what can I gain from this and how does this help me become a better under individual to understand themselves? And that's all I've been trying to do. Uh, and hopefully, for the most part, they they've all have given me very positive feedback, which I'm grateful for. They've also stressed me out, which I expect that's what I expected. I expected that because they're 17, 18. I think I've lost myself in that process too, because I've expected so much highly of them. But I'm also looking at it as a 30-year-old man who's been through this. This is their first time going through this. So when there's moments I have found myself frustrated, and I go home and I think about it, I remember that they are still kids. And they're going to do these things. And they're going to stress you out and they're going to challenge you. But when they do those things, unless we know that they are capable and they're not lazy, they just haven't been challenged enough to show that actual potential. You know, that's the main thing I'll say this this generation beyond is gonna be about. It's about what they love to do. The way of traditional thinking is going. That's no longer here. It's not. So we can teach them these things, and all the subjects that all these teachers teach are very important. I want to make that clear. It's nothing wrong with what they're doing. It is just kids' interests are being heightened because they're able to see what they care about every single day in a short amount of time. Now compare that to a classroom all day. You don't have the same time to be as effective. They can watch YouTube videos all day because their interest has been connected to this thing that they've been looking at for a long time. My nephew's eight years old. I know he's been able to work a phone since two. I remember one time he was four or five, he was operating a smart TV, knowing all the apps and everything. These kids are very capable. It's just we're fighting against what is working or what has worked versus what is not. And the last thing I'll say is that the reason why I think it's harder to say that they have it, that they're lazier, is their obstacles to have basic human decency of a life is actually harder now. Uh, the economy's terrible, which is way prior to this moment, right? An average college degree is not the same as it was 20, 30 years ago. Most of these kids will never see a home in their life unless they get into some money, right? So they're they're already starting behind a back nine that a lot of us had the advantage to at least say we did once. And some kids, after a while, they realize, what am I doing all this for if this is gonna be the end result? Some kids just don't care because they recognize there there's not an interest in being stressed out about that. It doesn't make them lazy, it just makes them recognize that they see the game before they get into it. We're just mad that they're not playing the game. That's not their fault. They're smart enough to see, like, oh college, yeah. And I stress it, like, yeah, I think it's important. I think college is more so important than the network uh to get a particular degree, like make the most out of the experience. But I also tell them all the time that you all are probably gonna have to go for at least two to have a fair shot at a decent job, or you want to connect with some very, very smart people or be that person yourself while you're in school. But the traditional go to school, get a good job, get a house, white pick your fence. It's not gonna happen. I didn't even talk about the relationships at their age. You know, it's very hard as it is for most adults, their generation looks at relationships way worse because they're way more traumatized and way more disconnected.

Jess 49:50

Well, they're seeing all that's broken in the systems we've been living in. You know, they're seeing all of the ways that the systems are failing us, and they're like, I'm not buying it. Like, I'm I'm just not gonna play the game. And like you said, it makes a lot of sense to say that, yeah, we're just mad that they're not playing the game. But, you know, for me, I like I think that there's a lot of systems that need to be reworked. And maybe, you know, these these kids are like, we're not playing the game how you played it. And so something else has to come in its place. Like we can't just have a whole group of people that are like, I'm not playing your game. So what next? And I think there's a lot that we can learn from them as they show us.

Rashad 50:33

I'd be very surprised, honestly. Like when you say you have a 12-year-old son, like what he's gonna think about in the next six, seven years, because again, they're they're more rebellious because again, they they're more passionate about things than uh before. But I also like my challenge with people who they think like, you know, this group is so rebellious. We've had several generations prior to them that were rebellious for things that they stood on. Did we forget about the 50s and 60s or the 70s? It was it wasn't just about just, you know, inequality. It was just about anything that was important to them. We're forgetting that. Like we people, you know, some of our grandparents' parents, they were a part of some of those things. They were the beginning of taking that stance on things. It's just magnified a lot more now because there's a camera behind it. There's no difference.

Autonomy Resilience And Letting Kids Feel

Jess 51:27

Yeah, and and well, the last thing I'll say is I have this like theory that I won't go into, but I think like, as you know, we have had people fighting really hard for change and change has happened, and then we go backwards. But going back to where this conversation started with emotions, like I think that a lot of times, like because we haven't really ever learned to live into feeling our emotions and we tell ourselves to quit. It's like it's the emotion, I think, to sometimes that like drives change, but we've been told not to feel the emotion, you know? And so um just bringing it back, I think like the more we can start to for ourselves learn to process emotions in a healthy way, model that to the young people, I think um I think that's just like a huge missing link in balance and wholeness and and understanding each other, you know? 100%.

Rashad 52:22

I told my kids many times not the day for me, you know. One time I did it as a theory to see how they will respond. Uh, but I think once I did it the other day, where I was like, hey, I'm I'm I literally said I'm conflicted with you all. Uh one minute I am happy that you guys continue to show up. The other part of me is very disappointed and my feelings are hurt. And this is why. Uh so I don't I because again, I never want any student, any child to feel that adults don't have feelings. And what I also have said is that what I will not do anymore, and I really didn't do it, but I will also not allow my feelings to dictate, um dictate or show a sense of ego or authority. I can get your attention without trying to have my ego involved because my feelings are hurt. Uh I said I've done it so so far in this class several times. Um and the one time I got on them was because I felt disrespected. But I also need to stay true to me. I'm not yelling at no kid. And it wasn't really even a yelling, it was just to get them to stop talking. Right. So I told him I'm not yelling no more. It does nothing for me. Because at some point the last class they started to see when I didn't say anything, now we see what he's talking about. Like, y'all talking too much. Because some kids was like trying to tell him stop. I literally have my hands up like I'm not gonna say nothing. I want them to see it for themselves. Now I think sometimes again, it goes back to we talked about with men trying to, you know, be a solution oriented for women and emotions. Sometimes you just have to be in the moment, just kind of see it. As long as it doesn't get too far, uh let them figure it out. And they did. Now I obviously have to do it again and again. Yeah, but it's I I just want them to see it for themselves. They say it for themselves. I think we have to give kids a little more autonomy again to figure it out. Um because we don't. We literally we have a crash pad every time they stick their hand out. That's the one thing I will say that hinders a generation, is that we don't want them to feel bad. They have to. Because if we don't want them to, life itself will do it. And if they don't have the ability to have any form of resilience, well they're gonna have a long life of suffering that they're not gonna be able to withstand. Because there's a lot of things that are gonna unfortunately experience um that is going to tear us apart. We can't protect them for everything, you know? And I think that's I've learned I just didn't experience this in losing things close to me. And just recognize that what I can't control in that moment, what I can't. I had to sit with some things. Yeah, I know my mom wanted to help me out. Um and then she that's when she had her moment when she was like, I can't help him through this. I can be there, but I cannot take away what he's feeling. He actually has to sit through this and go through this um in order to really understand it for himself. So yeah,

Where To Find Rashad And Goodbye

Jess 55:50

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very uh wise of your mom and and wise to just be able to pass it on to your students. So thank you. Thank you for being here. Um, I'm gonna include the links to your socials in the show notes. Is there anywhere that you prefer people find you?

Rashad 56:11

Um, I'm everywhere, it's all the same. Yeah, um, Instagram, threads, TikTok doesn't really matter. Um everything's my name. I I couldn't find the cold enough. So I was like, I'm gonna just be myself.

Jess 56:26

So hey, I love that. I think that's awesome that you were able to like get your name too, because you know, that's like sometimes hard to do. So um makes it easy. So cool. Okay, so thank you so much for taking time to be here. I've just like really enjoyed this conversation. I think it's opened my eyes to a lot of things. So it's appreciated.

Rashad 56:45

Thank you so much for that. Appreciate it.