How Should We Think About Artificial Intelligence?

Artificial Intelligence is everywhere! How should we approach it as Christians? In this episode, we discuss the pros and cons of AI and give our opinions on where the dangers lie. It's not going away, so we need to adopt a Kingdom mindset towards this rapidly growing technology. 

For more teaching from City Awakening, visit www.cityawakeningchurch.com 

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Transcript

Unknown 0:00

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Zack 0:13

Welcome to Episode 3 of Between Sundays. Our goal is to have personal, unscripted conversations around topics that we believe matter today. I'm Zack Casey, the Executive Pastor at City Awakening Church, and today I'm joined by Robbie Alderman, our Worship Pastor, and Savannah Alderman, our Kids Director. And today we have a really interesting topic to discuss, artificial intelligence. The idea is to discuss, is AI helpful or hurtful, and what does it look like to have a kingdom mindset towards artificial intelligence? Now, Robbie, I know that you're excited about this topic, and maybe Savannah is too from a different angle, so it should be interesting as we get into it. We've already had some back and forth on this in the past, and I know that this is a topic that really everybody is dealing with today, no matter what industry or line of work or school or wherever you find yourself. So it's definitely relevant and relative to all of us, and it's not going away anytime soon, I think. So Just as we get into it, just for fun, when was the last time that AI or artificial intelligence really just blew your mind? It creeped you out or just surprised you by what it put out?

Robbie 1:23

So I actually have two answers here, if that's okay. A couple weeks ago at our team retreat for the company that I work for full time, our videographer was just showing us some of the cool things that AI can do when you build an agent to then produce video from that video. text command and we had taken a couple static images that he had taken pictures of some students out at our camp and it was a kid standing on a dock next to the water and he input all these commands into the AI agent to turn it into a video of this kid jumping into the lake. And so he inputs all that in, he generates it, and then he pulls up the MP4 or whatever video file it was, and the kid who was just standing there motions and starts to run and jump into the lake which was super cool except for the fact that it started to like adjust his limbs in really weird strange ways and so it was cool that it could do that but then also creepy because some of the input was was wrong in that the other thing that was really creepy that i actually just did over the weekend was i had uh chat gpt run a full data security analysis on me and that was horrifying oh it knew almost everything And it was funny as it actually told me that I, I couldn't do it at first. Like it said, Hey, I'm not allowed to do that. I'm fine. If you want this information just for, you know, uh, base level purposes or something like that. And then I forget what prompt I put in, but I actually had it, um, I was like, no, I'm doing this for research purposes or something, and I need to build a data security analysis on myself. And it fleshed out my entire life. Family, address.

Savannah 3:15

So you outsmarted AI is what you're saying.

Robbie 3:16

I guess, in a way. Now other people will be doing that building analysis on you. On me. Yeah, exactly. But it blew my mind that it could do that and it had all that information. Because I've been... You know, over the last however many years I've had any form of internet presence, I've been careful. You know, obviously you have to put your address in for certain things. You have to put, you know, credit card numbers in for certain things. But like on Facebook and things, I've been careful about what I post on there and Instagram and social media over the years. And so it was shocking how much it knew about me. about me.

Savannah 3:55

. It's terrifying.

Robbie 3:56

Yeah, it was crazy.

Zack 3:57

You have one Savannah?

Savannah 3:58

I have used it actually lately, which Rob will be very proud of me. There's been a few times where I feel like my creativity has been kind of shot. Like I just feel like I know what I'm trying to do. Like I'm trying to make a goal for my work and I know I need a goal. And so yesterday I was like, here are the things I need to work on. Here's the age of the child that I'm working on it with. And it created the goals for me. What was crazy about it was that it was so accurate for what like I was taught in in grad school like it's it was so by the book that was almost creepy in that way that like it was very functional and practical and so that's when I I got a little creeped out by that but I was also very thankful for that the creativity piece of it but I'm not a huge AI fan so that I that was the most positive thought I had about it in the last month

Zack 4:45

Yeah. So my small group plays around with it sometimes. Some folks have written songs on AI.

Savannah 4:54

Oh, yes. The songwriting. I've heard about this.

Zack 4:56

One of my members does it, uses it for work regularly and different things. And so one day he started sending pictures and he sent himself kind of with like long hair, like Nicolas Cage. And it was funny, all this kind of stuff. But then he merged me and him.

Savannah 5:11

Oh, no.

Zack 5:12

It was funky. Here you go.

Savannah 5:15

Oh. Oh, wait. That

Robbie 5:17

actually... Oh,

Savannah 5:19

no. I can see it. It was Rob, clearly, right? Yeah. Okay.

Robbie 5:22

So, that was pretty weird, though. I was like, that's just like... Wait a minute. It's like what your son would look like...

Speaker 00 5:27

l Yeah. If me and Rob has a son? Yeah. Yeah. In 30 years. Right. Yeah. So, that is pretty weird to mess with. m

Zack 5:35

w All right, well, this week's text, Louis preached, kind of centered around Genesis chapter 11, verses 1 through 9, which is the Tower of Babel. It's a passage of scripture that, you know, most of us are familiar with. If you're familiar with the Bible, at least the concept, you hear people talk about the Tower of Babel, which is where... You know, the people began to build a tower and they kind of got carried away where they decided they want to build all the way to heaven. And the problem really with that was not so much what they were trying to do, but the motivation behind it. It was not that they were making a tower, obviously, but it was their reason for wanting to do it. This says in chapter 11, let's make a name for ourselves, otherwise we will be scattered throughout the earth. So they knew that if they could do this and accomplish this great work for themselves, then it would build them into a great kingdom, obviously, and give them power in that. Essentially, in a way, it was like they were playing God, kind of going back to the Garden of Eden, which is what the serpent tempted Adam and Eve with, was like, you can have the knowledge, the power of God, essentially. And we see that show up in other times in Israel, even today. When they wanted a king, when the Israelites wanted a king, they wanted that to rule over them. And God said, you don't need that. You already have me. But they wanted to take that kind of control into their own hands. And so it's not that the bricks of the tower was sinful with the tower, but the why behind the tower was. And that same idea goes for tech today. And when we start talking about things like artificial intelligence and there's been other things throughout history that have kind of had this same conversation. But do you think, or how do you think we see pride and the control that was present at the Tower of Babel playing into the role of AI development today?

Robbie 7:35

Yeah, I think it points to two things here. I think, number one, I think this started... a long time before AI with having the internet in our pocket, with whether it was Google or Safari or whatever, just being able to search anything, any topic at any time, really opened us up to this idea of having untapped and unlimited access to knowledge. And I think I've seen that, especially in the younger generation, they are experts in everything. I know this was something that was frustrating growing up. I would make a point on something. It could have been sports. It could have been theology. It could have been something. And within seconds, I didn't even see him reach for his phone, but within seconds, my youngest brother, who's eight years younger than me, would have the answer. And it was the opposite of what I was saying. And he was like, actually, no, this is actually what happened in that game or in that sermon. And so I think that is part of it. I think it... It certainly gives access to immediate knowledge and unlimited, untapped, anything that's on the internet at least. But then I actually also think it points to something in us. Where it actually reveals some laziness. And I do enjoy AI and I think it's great, especially for people who are in certain fields. But I see the issues with it as well. And I do think it has, especially again in that younger generation, revealed a lot of... inability to think for themselves and process information and create. And they've kind of become dependent on that almost. It's like, oh, well, I'll just have ChatGPT write this for me.

Savannah 9:28

Which I think is a huge problem. I mean, I know it's a huge problem in schools. I know that was a conversation, I think, last year's school year they talked about of like, students aren't necessarily coming up with their own ideas for papers and questions on curriculum. And that becomes a huge problem of like, is that generation not going to have that knowledge base because they have access to it just by typing in the question to AI. And I think as a kids director, that always freaks me out a little bit of like, what are my kids learning and what are they having access to? And are they actually retaining the information because they have it all at their fingertips, which I think can go into a whole different discussion of, Like as parents, we have to have some limitations on what our kids have access to because of that. But I do think that the knowledge piece, and I think the lack of creativity piece that comes with AI is huge, is where's the need for creativity if you can type in, you know, make an 8x12 portrait of the painting that I want in my living room and it can do that for you. You know, you're kind of eliminating the need for the creators of the world and the people with the knowledge in the world.

Zack 10:33

Yeah. No, for sure. I think it definitely limits all of those things and hinders our ability to think creatively and problem-solve and think for ourselves. Like you say, I see that especially in the younger generation. I think they're just more used to it, but I know plenty of adults than I've even seen in my own life, where it's like, oh, I could just search this, or do I want to take the time to put in the thought? And so that does become, kind of going back to the idea of the Tower of Babel, it's like, it's easy for us to want the unlimited, to tap into that unlimited resource, you know, because otherwise we're limited by what we can generate on our own, because all of us aren't gifted at thinking about everything we're not infinite in knowledge about every topic and so it even takes away the ability to go or the need to go and ask other people you know and to ask for help or input from others well i can just find it all right here at my fingertips so again ai isn't inherently evil but it often reflects the heart of those who build and use it, even if we don't start off with that intent is what we can come to. So we think about some theological considerations a little bit deeper compared to other tools or inventions. We think about things like the wheel, or more recently the cotton gin, or even the computer. What makes AI uniquely powerful or potentially dangerous compared to other tools or inventions, do you think?

Savannah 12:11

I mean, Robbie kind of mentioned this. I think the fact that it's at our fingertips at all times is a big part. You know, you can go anywhere in the world. I mean, and we've seen this in the last decade with the computers basically being our phones. But I think AI takes that to a totally different element of like... anything you possibly could want to know is always there. Or like, I know you and your aunt like to joke about my friend chat. Like they, and you kind of said this, like takes away the need for help or the need for people. And they have this whole conversation about like, Oh, we didn't know the answer to this. So we asked our friend chat and it became a, it became a whole joke. But I mean, that's a, that's a real thing is like, instead of asking these people with wisdom or asking people that have, that were in seminary and have biblical knowledge, like, we go straight to chat or something about, I mean, this was, it was a medical question, I think is what came up and you just ask your friend chat. And I'm like, well, that's just taking away the knowledge of people that have been in school for however many years to learn these things. And you're just assuming that this robot knows it better than people. And so it was, it ended up being a funny conversation. And I think there's still some humor in like the amount of knowledge it does have and the creepiness I would say, but in that sense, sense of it always being our fingertips, I think is just a huge difference from other tools that have really impacted our culture and the people around us.

Robbie 13:35

Yeah. I think that not to get too sci-fi here, but I think the potential danger in it, we would be remissed if we didn't ignore that there is an element of it being able to control itself. Um, and yeah, and modify itself and grow itself. And like, I mean, the thousands, maybe even millions of agents, AI agents that are being created right now by people just to help them like schedule calendars and, you know, thought processes and think tanks and mind maps and things like that. Its ability to evolve, uh, if I can use that word in our between Sundays podcast, its ability to evolve. Um, I think that's dangerous because I think without limits, um, and without boundaries and protections on it, um, it really could be now, but will it become like I robot and destroy the world type of thing? I don't, I don't think that is the case, but I do think it could become its own almost entity, um, which would, which would certainly be very dangerous.

Unknown 14:39

Yeah.

Zack 14:39

Yeah, I think essentially the ability for it to learn is just so different. And I heard somebody saying the other day, and I'm not a tech expert, I don't know all there is to know about AI, but essentially every time you input something into AI, ask it a question, that's just feeding it information that it's learning based on that, right?

Savannah 15:00

Yeah.

Zack 15:00

So there's a New York Times article published a while back that shared stories of people who became emotionally entangled with AI, convinced that it was offering them companionship, even secret knowledge about themselves and spiritual insight. So part of the problem is then how convincing they can feel talking to AI. It's like you're talking to a real person, right? When in reality, it doesn't know anything, but it can echo what we're thinking and feeling with amazing accuracy, which is why it's a It's creepy, right? It's just like, that's exactly what I was kind of thinking, you know? And the interesting thing is how Satan and his demons deceive in the same way, not by directly misleading us, but by encouraging us to accept a distorted reality, right? He's the master of deception and lies. And so AI tends to work in a similar way, especially from a relational standpoint. It mimics the meaning as we supply the actual information. And so I AI may be a tool that we can use, but it's not a voice that we can trust in that way. That's good. So I think in that way, it makes it a way different tool than just a wheel that we have on our car or even more advanced inventions than that. Nothing else is really doing that. Um, one thing I was thinking about is, you know, Genesis chapter one, verse 28, after creation, uh, God, it says that God blessed them and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it, rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and every creature that crawls on the earth. So he's giving man this power essentially to rule on earth. And that's part of our role in creation. So how do we reconcile that? Our call to subdue the earth with the potential for technological advances to get Yeah, I mean,

Savannah 16:52

Robbie kind of already talked about this, and I didn't really even think about it until you mentioned the sci-fi stuff of if AI is able to learn and gain knowledge and eventually overtake some things. But yeah, I think that's a reality. We are called as man to rule the earth, and I think when we start relying on things other than that, It becomes a huge issue. And I think that that line you said, what was it? That AI can be a tool we use, but not a voice we can trust. And that's like the overarching like line of AI is it is a tool. And there's I mean, Rob and I talk a lot about how there's benefits to it. And we've seen that. And, you know, sometimes if you're like, I don't know what I'm going to cook tonight. Like, here's what I have in my fridge. like chat, my friend chat, like, can you put together a recipe for me? I mean, there's perks of that that can be really great. I think when you use it to replace knowledge, like in school or to teach itself some things or use it as a replacement for the job you're supposed to be doing, it can become extremely dangerous.

Robbie 17:58

Yeah, I agree. Um, I, I think one thing, and this may be where we, where we begin to disagree a little bit on this, you know, I even mentioned a And I think our role as humans and God's image bearers is to be the ones that are subduing the earth by putting boundaries on those things. You know, we have content restrictions and blockers on things. streaming shows that we watch and, uh, or internet parameters and things like that, that we can use, um, as parents and as teachers. And I mean, even like you get into really it heavy stuff at schools or in churches, like you can block certain domains and things like that. So I think our job as image bearers and as Christians especially is to, uh, as much as we can be involved in that, um, Put those protections on AI. But I really think what's unfortunate about this is it's beyond that. We've already been beat in that. And that's because of the amount of data over the last three, four, five years that has been input into it already. Trying to put boundaries and protections on it with a Christian worldview is going to be really difficult to kind of backtrace at this point. So I think our role in it is when this question of subduing the earth, when it starts to get out of hand, our job is to be Amen. Amen. Amen. How they can check their kids' papers and see if this was written by a chatbot or by Gemini or Grok or whatever it was. We can look at our research and our data and we can run it through our own filter, our own agent, and utilize it to our advantage, knowing that, okay, it's not that the end is here and we need to be all freaking out, but using it in such a way that we know how to use it better. We have an opportunity here– I'm going to speak as a parent for a second. We have an opportunity to do something here that I think maybe our parents missed 20 years ago and that we have an opportunity to be the experts on something new that will change the world that a lot of our parents didn't do in the early 2000s with the internet. And I think it's so important and valuable for us to– to be the experts on it so that our kids want to listen to us. They don't want to go listen to the TikTok person talk about it. They don't want to get on YouTube and look up the best ways to utilize AI to cheat in school. They want to come talk to us. And I think it gives us an opportunity as parents and as pastors and as kids ministry directors and as people in the church to really coach our people on how to use something that is going to be around for their Yeah, that's

Zack 21:10

good. Yeah, it's interesting. I think so often we say, well, we just accept, I'm saying we as a 40-something-year-old, that the younger generation is more advanced than us, and they're just going to be more advanced than us. And that may be true because they learn it at a younger age, but it doesn't mean that we just throw in the towel and accept it. They're just going to take the lead. We can still lead because we have wisdom to lead in that way, which is good. And I think with this, when we think about our role in ruling on earth, whatever the tool is, because of sin and our sin nature, there's always the potential and possibility reality that it's going to get twisted and distorted. And so we have to, unfortunately it doesn't work that we can just say, no, I'm not going to do this. Like it's not, it's rarely that black and white. Right. But we learn how to use those things for the advancement of good and fight against evil in that way. I think a final question in this regard is, do you feel like AI in that vein of our role, does it compete with the Imago Dei, us being made in the image of God?

Robbie 22:31

Again, this is where we may start to disagree because I think in a really strange, beautiful way, I think what we have done with AI and what we have the opportunity to do as the church with AI is... Allow it to show our creativity as people. I don't think it robs us. I work in marketing, and a lot of my team is graphic design and copywriters and people who are really freaked out about the danger of their jobs being taken away by this. And yes, I think just like when the internet came out or when we go back to something like the cotton gin, when those machines have been developed, it does eliminate jobs, but but it also gives opportunity to people to adapt and to learn. And so I think on two fronts, it shows our creativity. It gives us an opportunity to express our creativity as image bearers, people who are created in the image of God. Like if we think of God in the way that we get wisdom from him, the person who created all of this, including AI, we understand that we have an infinite source of creativity. eternal knowledge that we can get from him. But then I think from another perspective, we look at it as something that was created by someone's mind. It was a thought that someone had, like whether it be a movie that came out 40 years ago, or someone sitting in an office in California, in Silicon Valley, saying, hey, we should really do something with this. And this could help a lot with everything. It was the brain that God created that developed. to this. And so I think that's my opinion on how it's not necessarily competing with it, but almost enhanced by it.

Zack 24:26

Yeah, I think the power to create is where we see it reflect the image of God in a way. We can't create something out of nothing, right? That's an incommunicable attribute of God. We don't share that with him, but he does give us the power to rule and create. However, I do think that it can I do think it can compete because it can give us a false sense of unlimited power in that way. And I think that's what you're seeing already as people begin to question and worry about, even tech experts, you know, it's like, where's the limit? You know, what is the end? And so I think in that way, if we, and I'm saying we collectively, like as a human race, believe that we now have this technology that can take us to infinite... whatever, knowledge and even life, then that is a false reality. That's a lie. And that does take away from us being made in the image of God, especially when you pull it outside of the context of relationship, which it does exist outside of that in a way. Even God himself is relational. He's three persons in one. So... I think in some ways it can and does maybe not compete with but contradict our being made in the image of God.

Savannah 25:46

I can easily see how people that are lost and feel hopeless easily turning to something like AI for comfort and hope and whatever. And they will never get that from AI. But I do think in... I think it'll be interesting in the church world the next few years and as Christians, if we see that become more common of people, even like Christian counseling, like I can see people just be like, I'm in pain, I'm hurting. I'm just going to go to AI to tell me what to do to fix this rather than that relational piece. You know, I think that's what's missing with AI is there is no relationship as much as, you know, our friend chat has become a conversation. Like that relationship piece is missing. Um, But I'll just be interested to see in the next few years if that plays a role in people seeking faith and seeking a relationship with God as they feel like they are getting the answers that they feel like they need from something like AI.

Zack 26:51

Yeah, that's good. So we already talked about some of the helpful things that AI has. I mean, I think you look at some of the things that are going to come from it in the medical field, early diagnoses, like pinpointing more accurately how to treat things like... Think about language translation for missions, the accessibility that it offers people potentially with disabilities to be able to do different things they wouldn't before. Those are good. We've talked about the negatives, things replacing real relationships with artificial ones, dehumanization of work, taking those things away, exploitation of people's privacy, as you were mentioning earlier, p***nography, security, all those things are negatives that will come of it or already have. So we think about a new tool like this. How do you, and this is, again, a little more personal, how do you discern whether a new technology aligns with Christian values and priorities? How do you evaluate technology as it comes across our plates or screens?

Robbie 27:50

I think it depends on how we use it.

Savannah 27:52

A hundred percent.

Robbie 27:54

Yeah, I think it depends on how we use it. If we are prioritizing and valuing its ability to do things for us and be lazy and be dependent on it, I think it shows our sin and it reveals our sinful nature and habits to want things done for us and not be creative and not be, you know... not be seeking, even something, I mean, you know, looking ahead and talking about our focus on prayer as a church for next year, I think what happens when like we're looking to AI, ChatGPT, to write prayers for us. Like, hey, I'm having trouble talking to God. What's an input prompt that we could do is, hey, I'm having trouble talking to God. What is something that you would say to God? That's the wrong place. That's a horrible use of it and a priority and a value because... Prayer is something that we should do. It's like this. It's relational. It's relational. That's the difference. It's personal. And so if we're needing guidance in how to pray, not that there's anything wrong with people helping us pray and things like that, but Jesus taught us how to pray in the Sermon on the Mount. We don't need anything besides his model there. And so I think how we use it, we have to be careful in discerning what we're using it for. I think... when it comes to Christian values and the priorities there, we need to be making sure that we're using it as a tool, not as a counselor or a pastor or a friend or a relationship and prioritizing it that way. Or even an administrative assistant in some ways. I think in some ways it can be helpful to organize your schedule with it and things like that, but if we get too dependent on it, it will realign our priorities and values quickly. I

Savannah 30:00

think in general, new technologies have their good side they also have their evil. I mean, even if you think about something simple like Instagram, like you use it for good by sharing Bible verses or sharing like happy things your family is doing, but there's a lot of negative things that have come from stuff like Instagram and social media. So I feel like in that sense, there's always, you can always see a good to it and how it can be beneficial. Like even as a kids director, I'm thinking like if there's a, game for a lesson that just doesn't fit our environment as far as classroom size or number of kids we have, or this game might be for 10 year olds and I really need to adapt it for four year olds. AI is a great way to help my creativity along and how do I adapt this game to fit.

Robbie 30:45

But I think... We're building an agent out to help you plan out your kids ministry volunteers for the next 20 years.

Savannah 30:50

Oh, except for the problem is they don't know those volunteers. They don't have the relationships to know what volunteers should be where and who works well with who and where these leaders' passions are. They're missing the relational piece with that. And I can look at a schedule of kids ministry volunteers and know these people work great together for this child. AI is never going to be able to do that.

Zack 31:10

So when you think about, uh, for, for your own family, like, so husband and wife here, you have three kids. How do you put guidelines and principles in place for your home or down technology, but specifically AI, like what will be, what would that look like for you guys?

Robbie 31:29

I think right now at the ages that they're at, it's, it's a, it's a total avoidance of it. Um, not of the training, but them in it, but in just the even existence of it is like, Hey, no, right now, like you're, you're, you're 13. I want you to learn how to use your mind. And I want you to, um, have an imagination and be creative and learn how to, you know, research things. And those were all skills that all like the three of us had to adapt, uh, throughout, throughout school years in college and even in adulthood. And so it's something that I want them to really, um, be learning for themselves right now. But then as they get in, as they get into the ages where it's, where it's appropriate to begin talking about it, which is going to be sooner than later. I think, um, one of the things that I will really try to do is the benefits of, or one of the, excuse me, one of the things that I will really try to teach them, um, is the, is the benefit of, uh, assistance and how it can be utilized to make, make them more efficient and, The refrigerator example is a great example. Rather than being stuck on what to eat for dinner tonight and then saying, ah, we can't think of anything to make or we don't have anything in the fridge, even though we have 100 things in the fridge, we're just going to go to Mexican and eat out.

Savannah 32:49

Which is always a really good decision.

Robbie 32:51

Which is always what, like, hey, chat GPT. Here's what I have in my fridge. Here's the time I have to make it. Give me three recipes that I could do tonight. Yeah, but is efficiency always better? I think so. I mean, I would need to think about... Not always. Always is a dangerous word. Always is a dangerous word. But I would need to think about an example where efficiency isn't better. And so, no, it's not always better. But to be efficient is... Was Jesus always efficient? No, he was not. And so, actually, that brings up a great point of an example of when he wasn't efficient, coming back to this point, relational. Like... I don't want to be efficient. Even in this conversation that we're having right now, I don't want to be efficient with this time. I want to really utilize this time and the value that the three of us have together talking about this, not trying to scoot out of here or rush out of here. If I'm building a recipe with my youngest, who loves to cook... If I'm building out a recipe with her, I want to enjoy that time with her and not be so efficient in the kitchen that I lose that time to really build relationship with her in the kitchen cooking together. So yeah, I think that's an example where efficiency is not bad. I'm just playing devil's

Zack 34:09

advocate, but I think as Christians, if we're going to take a Christian value, we run the risk of saying, well, we know the things that are bad about it, right? Obviously, we're not going to use it for... Stealing people's identity. Running security analysis on people. Exactly. But we can use the argument, okay, but I can use it to make things more efficient or to help me get my work done faster or to help me come up with the outline for this paper. I'm going to write the paper myself. But what if even that is taking away some of the creativity and the hard work? I mean, God did create us to work, right? And he put Adam and Eve in the garden to work the garden. And I fully believe that we'll have jobs soon. in the new heavens and earth. And so I think you go back, if you've listened to, I know you guys have, like the John Mark Homer stuff, The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. He talks about how much Henry Ford's assembly line changed things and not necessarily for the better. And so I think this is one of those pivotal moments that if we're not careful, we can just adopt efficiency as a positive thing always or the assistance that AI can give us There are those positive things. I've used it in that way for myself. But I'm just saying I think we have to ask the question, even where is the limitation? If it's not inherently evil, does it necessarily mean that it's also good? Sure.

Savannah 35:34

Yeah. I think going back to the as parents conversation and AI, I will say I think we're in a little bit different situation because our kids don't really have access to phones. I mean, they don't have phones. They don't have access to that. They don't have access to iPads. Other than using things for school purposes, they really don't have access to the internet at all. Now, they're getting older, so our kids are... 12, 11, and 8. So in the next few years, that will change as far as their access to things. And I think at that point, like anything with your kids, I think you have to have a conversation so they understand what it is, how it's used, and what their limitations are and why there's limitations there. I think as parents, we can be kind to by being clear to our kids and helping them understand the whys behind things. But I think that's going to have to be more of a conversation that comes up as our oldest is going to a friend's house and we don't know what they have access to. And just like anything we do with teaching our kids about things like p*** and teaching them about videos they shouldn't be watching or words they shouldn't be saying, it's going to be that same discussion, I think, of here are the things of the world that can be dangerous. And again, we are called to live in the world, but we are not called to... Associate with everything in the world. So I think that would be interesting to navigate that we will be having to do very soon.

Robbie 36:53

Yeah. Well, I think it's good. I think it comes back to just taught integrity and knowing like I vividly remember like when I was growing up. Uh, I was going to a friend's house and they were about to watch a movie and I was in probably sixth or seventh grade. Like at that point there, there wasn't, well, I guess sixth or seventh grade, there's still, there's still movies that you can't watch, um, for some families. Uh, but I remember there was, there was a movie that was being put on. It was, it was like a horror movie, uh, and it was PG 13. Um, and I remember, I remember like telling the mom, um, You have to call my mom and make sure I'm allowed to watch this. Otherwise, I need to leave or I need to be in another room. I want my kids to have that type of reaction. I'm not trying to toot my own horn. That was just the example that popped into my head as you were talking about that. I want our kids to have the integrity and the wherewithal to recognize we shouldn't be messing with this. We should not be playing with this, whether it's AI or AI. uh, what's the game, but like the Ouija board, like a Ouija board, or whether it's a really demonic horror movie that their, their friends are watching. I want them to have the wherewithal to not just do it because the crowd is doing it. Um, but be able to stand up and say, Hey, this, this doesn't seem right. Something seems off here. I don't think, uh, I have not been explicitly told I can't watch this or do this or play with AI, but something feels off. Um, And I think it's valuable for kids to have that feeling, that conviction in them, and respond to it, not ignore it. That's a skill that is learned over those years. And for adults. And for adults. And I

Zack 38:35

think that's the key. In all these things, technology, whatever, we can't just remove ourselves from all of it or draw a hard line always. Like we've said, there are good things, there are bad things. There's ways we can use it. There's things we should avoid. But we have to learn to listen to the Holy Spirit and have that conviction, and we need to teach our kids that. We can put all the restrictions and guidelines we want in place. There's ways around them. There's always ways around them. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, they don't always work. And so we have to teach them. And I think sometimes as Christian parents or as Christians, we focus on what we can't do or shouldn't do rather than how to navigate what's there. And I think that's going back to the Tower of Babel. I mean, should they have built a tower? There was nothing wrong with that, but it was their motivation and desire behind it. And they didn't, whether they had the conviction or not, They didn't listen to it. They didn't heed it until God intervened and had to break it up. And we don't want to get to that place because inevitably what does happen as Christians or for those of us who are trying to follow God, He will intervene in our lives and cause us to be broken when we ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit and stop following Him. We see it over and over again in Scripture. And so will that happen on a... universal church level or global scale with artificial intelligence? I don't know. But an individual level? I mean, I can almost guarantee you that there will be people that experience having to be broken and hit rock bottom because we've given ourselves over to something that has pulled us away from God and where we're playing that. I like what... I subscribed to this email. It's called The Axis Team. They send out emails periodically and they hope... The idea is to help parents stay culturally relevant and to know what's going on in their kids' lives, particularly teenagers. But there was one a couple of weeks ago where Irene Tucker, one of their writers, was writing about AI. And she said this. She said, when my kids are hurting, lonely, or confused, I want them to know that the answer isn't going to be found in cold comfort from a robot proxy, but rather from the living word of God, the quiet, constant voice of the Holy Spirit and the real people in their lives who love And I think that's what we all have to remember when we're dealing with this issue. AI can offer us all the information, but it's not living and active. Only God's word is that.

Savannah 41:19

Yeah. As you were saying that, relational is the word that screamed out again. I think that's all going back to that same point of, yeah, what you said. You can do a lot of things, but you're missing the relational point that so many of us seek and that God calls us to seek out. And I think if you're missing that, then while it can have its positives all day, that's just something that I think as Christians, as parents, as workers in ministry, we just have to be really aware of.

Robbie 41:49

Yeah.

Zack 41:50

Yeah.

Robbie 41:50

I think what resonated with me about what you said is just the, I can't remember exactly what it was, but the robot proxy or the word of God. And those two kind of pitted against each other. Like the word of God is what we stand on is truth. And that's our foundation for everything. I just heard someone a couple days ago talking about the... like when you look at the armor of God from Ephesians and how it's all kind of built together, the piece that holds everything together is the belt of truth. And so as we're navigating these things, as we're diving deeper into these things, having a really strong foundation. I mean, it reveals the importance for memorizing scripture and it reveals the importance for spending every day in scripture, not just in the mornings, but at lunch, in the evenings, you know, just the importance of grounding yourself in the words of God and having that be the basis and foundation for what you consider and believe to be truth.

Zack 42:50

Yeah, that's good. Well, we touched on it. Savannah, you specifically mentioned social media earlier. Next week, we're going to talk more about the relationship piece and how social media fits into that. So that'll be our fourth topic in this Kingdom Thinking series. So excited about kind of getting into that a little bit next episode. So thank you guys for joining us. And we'll see you next week.