When You Go All In, Doors Open And Culture Changes

What if a single line—God is alive—could rewire the way you write, work, and lead your family? We sit down with Elijah Ward to trace the surprising path from a tear-soaked preface to a thriving real estate company shaped by integrity, optimism, and generosity. Elijah shares why he wrote a Christian book without insider language, how fathers gave him permission to finish and publish, and why Athanasius’ On the Incarnation shattered old assumptions and made “Jesus is God” a living lens instead of a slogan.

From there, the story turns practical. A word from a trusted father—go all in—broke fear and ignited years of triple-digit growth while keeping first things first: don’t sacrifice family to start something you’ll have to maintain. We talk about creativity as contagion, how revelation becomes blueprint, and why builders observe creation and agree with it. Think Newton’s apple, Bernoulli’s wing, and Einstein’s thought experiments—then translate that posture into culture, systems, and client care that feel like love. The result is a marketplace ministry that doesn’t split identities: the same voice that prays in church negotiates with honor at the table.

We also reframe spiritual warfare as a battle of thoughts, explore risking prophetic nudges in everyday settings, and unpack Elijah’s notion of optic mystics—leaders who choose hopeful sight in a cynical age. Generosity becomes the scoreboard, with Joseph of Arimathea as a picture of resourced disciples reclaiming the body. Through it all runs a king-priest identity: some seasons highlight the marketplace robe, others the ministry robe, but authenticity holds them together. If you’ve wondered how to live revelation without losing yourself—or how to build something that frees people, not just profits—this conversation is a map and a nudge to go all in.

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Follow Elijah Ward on Instagram: https://instagram.com/elijahtheson

Transcript

Preface, Tears, And “God Is Alive”

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Living breathing. That was the preface of this book. That was the first sentence in that book. God is alive. Period. Line break. And I wept for a long time. There's a line break, right? Yeah. God is alive. Boom. Enter. And that, and so I spend time in this chapter because there are a few things that are diff that are different about my book. One of them is in the book, it is it's geared toward people who uh would ascribe to the Christian faith, but I don't say the name Jesus in the book.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And and although I say that name now, um, in during this like dimension of my life, I would call it, and not necessarily a season, but like in this place I was at, um, it it was like he wanted me to honor that, his most original name, you know, and Jesus is not wrong, it's an iteration, it's a cultural iteration of an original name, but there was just something in that like if if in order for you to discover who you are in your name, I want you to honor me for who I am in my name. And it was so there's I spend time in the preface just like unpacking here's why this book is different, and here's here's why here's why I say things the way I say it, and it's not an indictment against you and what you believe, it's just me being completely transparent about where I am today.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I love that, and so yeah, man. I mean, literally, I don't think we especially when we first started hearing like some of what Apostle Aaron was saying, I don't think we were at a place where we knew how to take that in. Yeah, yeah, and so um you and I had this. I don't remember how I got the book. I think you just gave it to me one time when I was come down for a trip or maybe so. I keep remembering I don't remember mailing. All I remember is um that I told my wife, I was like, hey, look, I think this Zion thing is a big deal, and I don't really know how to grasp it, but I know Elijah wrote a book on it, and I was like, and my wife doesn't really read a lot. Yeah, she's like, she don't even read my book.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

My wife doesn't either. It's like she receives it all firsthand, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

You know, right, but she's like Destiny's always like, if you want me to read your book, you read it to me, you be my audio book. That's it, you know. So yeah, whatever. But um, but yeah, man, like all the color revelation, the seven spirits, understand all that came from your wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

That's amazing, man. Yep. Let me say one thing too. I think that what I've been waiting for, because um you gave me a word about writing another book. Jimmy Lovejoy gave me a separate word about writing another book. A friend of mine, Jacob Ramage, stopped by my house one night, I don't know, maybe a year ago, to gift me with a a pen, a special pen that what what's you know, the um Ray Hughes has the pen pen.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Yeah, Ray Hughes has the pen. Um beautiful pen. I forgot what it's think of the name of the company.

Why The Book Avoids Insider Language

SPEAKER_00 3:01

It comes with a postcard that tells a story of a like a revival tree that they make these pens out of. Yep. Well, he stopped by, he was led by the Spirit to bring me a pen at nine o'clock at night to my house. I answer the door, he gave he gives me this pen, and he goes, I just felt like the Lord told me to get you this pen. And I told him, Well, you don't understand. Another friend of mine uh th via business sent me a message and saying, The Lord said that you're gonna write another book, but it's not gonna come from your computer. It's gonna it's gonna happen when pen touches paper. And like, so all these things come, and what I've been feeling is that I know what it felt like to receive this. And there's no like there's no denying like this thing happening in me needs to be recorded. And so I'm almost waiting for the feeling that I got when he gave me some of this stuff that would like it's like it's like waking up and you know, like that feeling when coffee, when that first sip of coffee touches your stomach, and that warm feeling goes woom. You know, when it like, do you drink coffee? No, I don't, but I I know what I take your word for it. You wake up the first sip, you you sip it, and then when it goes down, it's sacred this moment. When it goes down your throat, it hits your stomach, and it feels like this expanding balloon of warm love. Yes, liquid love. Yes, and so that's what it felt like to receive that. And so I've got bits and pieces that, like, yeah, I think I might know what I'm gonna write about, but I honestly don't, and I'm not in a hurry to figure it out. But yeah, but this is uh no good book is ever hurried, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

None, but this would this was great, man.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

But what's happening in our life though, here is so significant that I mean, like, there has to be a scribe to be to capture and not even just like for me to reiterate what Damon Thompson is teaching in the form of a book, but to say, as a contributing member of this movement and a business owner and a father and a and a husband, here's what this is producing in me, and here's what I desire to give to the world. Yeah. You know, that's what I want the book to do.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

I love it. Hey, welcome to the family table podcast, guys. I'm so excited to be here today with my friend Elijah Ward. Elijah, thank you for coming, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Thank you for the invite. Dude, this is gassed up.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, I'm excited, man. Um, you know, for me, I've said this before on this podcast. I think that the family table, the reason why it's called the family table is because services are great, but it's the conversations that kind of settle it, seal it, yeah, take it deeper than what you can even process. And so I wanted to um make sure that I brought people to the table. So good. Friends, family, people that inspire us, challenge us, convict us, all the things that is required for you to grow in the kingdom. And man, I can tell you, dude, watching your journey from afar has been uh a joy, man. I really mean that. And um, I first I think when we first connected, you were tell tell me, like this was years ago. Oh, I'll tell you. Like you were doing t-shirts and I was printing t-shirts. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Funny story, in fact. So, my uh, you know, one of my best friend in the world at the time, we were doing business together, ministry together, all that stuff. We started a t-shirt business. Yeah, I remember had our sights set on literally taking over the world.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Everybody's gonna wear your shirt. Everybody.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yep, every baseball team, every every band. And so we start this business. The the screen printing company didn't survive past eight months. It was a it was so you everything about that experience felt in that when when you're sitting in it, it felt like a failure. But then when you look at like back at it, you realize, man, each of those things that unfolded from that effort, that joint effort, produced something in me that enabled me to succeed today, like where I am today. That's right. And so I remember getting connected to you because you had an order for some shirts for a come up here conference. Yeah. And we printed those shirts and sent them to you, and I'm almost positive I screwed them up.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Well, it's uh I don't I don't remember if you did or not, but I think they they sold out, just so you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I'm glad they sold. It was a holy mistake, but I I think that uh I remember being like um excited because I I knew who you were, and then when I was notified by somebody, I can't remember who it was, like I think I might have screwed up a little part of the design or something. I was mortified. I was like, this guy's gonna hate me. But uh that's how we get so that was in 2017, yeah, when we got initially connected, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

And um from No, it was before that. Was it? Oh, yeah, dude. This I was still living in Cleveland. That conference was a conference in Cleveland, Tennessee. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

So it's been a while, yeah. It's been a while, but it's been little like through different ways. So, like through that business and that connection, and then also obviously through what what pops and and the homestead, previously Carolina revival, that, but yeah, you know, uh his commitment and your commitment to just honoring Apostle Aaron through the years, like we've just been kind of crossing paths here and there.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah, man, and it's cool to be able to like um to live in the same city. We don't get to see each other a lot. Yeah, we see each other at church. Yeah, I know there's an honor there, there's an appreciation there. There's a um but um yeah, man, we were talking about this earlier before um well, we can we can put it in the podcast, but we were just kind of chatting. But like um, I remember you just being here immobile, being a son, Apostle Aaron was speaking these mysteries that we did not even know. Dusty and I didn't really even know how to like digest some of what was being said. And when we would come down here to visit, um, when Papa Damon would come down to do like a weekend or whatever, it was like entering into a whole different world. And so, like you come into the church and there's like Hebrew letters on the wall and pictures and colors everywhere, and we're just like, what is happening here? Like, not in like a negative way. It was just like, this is well, it's overwhelming, it's different, yeah. And and we didn't really know what to do with that. Um, and I remember you wrote this book. What year did you write this book?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I started writing this in 2017. I finished and published it in 2019. Okay, so yeah, so eight years ago. When seven years ago it was published.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

So when we we planted a church in Covington in 2019, you gave me this book when we visited in 2019. I'm re I'm remembering now. Yeah, okay. And then like my wife does not read books. Yeah, she grabs this book, and the next thing you know, she's like sitting with it for days in her creator, she calls it her creator portal. Yeah, she's like in this room, she's got all the colors, her paintings. It looked like a Postware's church, yeah, but in her office space. She's a peculiar one. Oh, yeah. Heck yeah. And so she would sit here and she was like, Mark, you gotta read this. And man, I just want to tell you, like, it made a mark on her life to this day, made a mark on our church's life and releasing creativity, and uh the colors were such a big deal, and I know they are to people that that were touched during those days that we were in Covington by it. Man, but you like I always appreciate because I feel like I kind of have this on my life. It's like there are people that are called to speak and be the first to like speak a mystery or speak a thing or reveal a new path. But for me, I appreciate people that can take that kind of stuff and go, let me help you give some understanding to this. And so, like, we would not have been able to receive this had you not wrote this in a way like what you just said a little bit ago before we started this. You're like the Holy Spirit started dealing with you about like writing this book in a way that if people weren't a part of this, yeah, they could still receive it. And dude, you did a phenomenal job with it.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

I was very self-conscious about it for you know, the the year that I was spent, I spent most of my time writing. I I knew that it was going to become something. I didn't know what the book was called, I didn't know that it would be published. I just knew this is gonna be an important document, I guess. And so I'd be writing, and there were nights when like I'd start writing in my chair in the living room, and my wife would come in and go, What are you doing? And I would tell her, I'm coming to bed in just a few minutes. And she'd say, It's six in the morning. What you're not coming to bed. And but that's how like the fire that I carried it, you know, would just moved me to just to chronicle these things I was seeing and piecing it together. And um, and I remember I got self-conscious about it for a while because I was like, this is this carries almost like the fingerprints of Apostle Aaron, but it's not Apostle Aaron.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Yeah.

Early Connections And Creative Awakening

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And it carries the even some of the fingerprints of Damon Thompson, but it's not Damon. It carries like there's some stuff like I I feel so different that I don't fit, but I think I fit because I'm so different in the same in the same yeah. And so I got self-conscious, and then one day I got a call from a friend of mine from Florida, and he didn't he didn't have a clue what I was writing. He had I had not told anybody I was writing. I get a phone call, he goes, Hey man, what's up? Small talk for 30 seconds, and then he says, Man, the Lord told me to call you and tell you that what you're hearing is the word of the Lord. So be confident. And I was just like, Are you kidding me? He said, Yeah. He gave me this strong sense that you're hearing and seeing some things that you're unsure about. It's the word of the Lord. Don't back down. And so I thought, all right. So I've I finished that book, and um, and it wasn't like I had mentioned, you know, I've I finished it and then I felt the conviction from the Holy Spirit. And it was, you know, as I was kind of, you know, even like designing the cover and coming up with a name, um, I felt like the Holy Spirit started just asking me questions. It wasn't condemnation, it was just a a a desire that he, I guess he was birthing in me to like make this accessible to people who don't sit in the same room I sit in. Because there's a language.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

At at the gates of Zion, there was a language.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Like it's an insider language.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

It is a its own culture.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

But my my heart for a long time has been for like people. And so there's like in that kind of the the my expression even in ministry, like I loved evangelical stuff. I've you know, I joke, but it's it's not a joke, but I joke all the time about how I got kicked out of the Dollar General on Dauphin Island Parkway because I preached the gospel in there and the manager kicked me out and said, Don't come back, but jokes on her because I've been back. Um and so I've I've always had that like I think that the Lord gave me this thing that wants people to get it. Yeah. Even if it's not what I carry, it's I just want you to get him. Yeah. And if what I can share in my honesty and in my vulnerability gives you a piece of him, then I've effectively, you know, carried out my calling. But I was self-conscious about it for a while, man. I I almost felt like I was only writing it for Apostle Aaron at one time because he was so gassed up about it. Yeah. But when I would post about like, I'd make a post on social media about a little piece of it and get like three likes. I'm like, oh no, we're not, this is not gonna go super good. But then I would like send every chapter when I finished it, I would email it to Apostle Aaron and he would read it, and then he would he would just kind of tell me, Man, this every single time, this is you. Like that's what what he didn't say was like this is right or this is wrong or this doesn't reflect my teaching. It was like, Elijah, this is so you. I celebrate it. And then and then for a while, uh, or right before I published it, he he said, I want you to come meet me in my conference room. And so I went in there and he said, I just want you to know I'm so proud of you. And when you publish this, there may be some days where you eat lunch alone, but that's okay, because this is you. And it was just like I needed that permission granting force, yeah. Like through that oracle that called me and told me it's the word of the Lord, and through my spiritual father saying, This is you, it's it's strange, but it's you, you know, and so in my mind I thought maybe this is just for me, like, and maybe it's just for Apostle Aaron. But to actually hear somebody say this blessed my wife, and this has no you know, leveraged creativity in my church, yeah. Um, you know, I it blesses me. Like I'm honored that you would even pick it up and read it. Yeah, but to hear that you didn't just read it, it actually created, yeah, it did something in your heart.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, this one, this one is still intact, so it's a good promo if you wanna somebody wants to go look at it. Can they get it on Amazon? Amazon, yeah. Yeah, so Zion Here and Now is great, man. I mean, I feel like for people that are creatives, mystics, it's a great book for you to to go read. And um brought a lot of understanding to me and my wife about things that we were just processing and and being open to. And like I feel like without even trying, when I travel, when I go places, when I speak, which is very seldom uh in the past 10 years, things are starting to open up again. But 10 years, I felt like anytime I would go out, there was a measure of this that I that that was in me that would release like creativity in the room. And man, I would get like people that would email and go, like, after that service, like you called me out, and I and like I've never painted before, and I had a desire, and I went and they like paint for the first time and then like actually sell their paintings for money. And I'm just like, what the heck is going on? You know, people just receiving creativity, writing books, poetry, art. Um, people just get that creativity being released, but that book's a big part of that.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

And you know, uh, this just came to me. I released this book in 2019. We started Wellhouse Real Estate in 2019, and so it was this was done, published in July.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

And it was like this was something I needed to complete. And it there was a create almost a creative freedom and expression that came out of me through this because we were able to create this company and start that in 2019, and then that we've been doing that ever since. And I see like some of what I put in this book, I'm actually I can identify in my life today what is the result of some things I believed in here before. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, you know, yeah, you know what's interesting is my very first book that I wrote was in 2014, and then it was published through Charisma Media in 2015. And I was so proud of the book. Uh, but I think I think what you're saying about being like uh what was the language you used? You were kind of like when you first put it out, not insecure.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Um self-conscious the depth of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yeah, yeah. Like I think that's kind of normal. It's so vulnerable, man. Like writing a book is like telling people, okay, you've heard my words. Now you're gonna know my thoughts. You're gonna be like, you're gonna, this is my head. This is my head space. Yeah, and so for those of you that don't know what Elijah's head looks like inside, it's Hebrew colors and words, mountains, spirits. No, but I think that's I think that's a normal part of it. But I remember um getting my first copy or my author copies. Yeah. And so then I'm like passing it out to people. And there was a lady uh that was working there in our ministry and she was an intercessor. And so I'm like, hey, check this book out and let me know what you think. Oh no. About three days later, she walks in my office and she takes my book and just chucks it at my over my desk and it slides and hits me, and I grab it and she goes, Now you'll have to go live it. Oh, wow. Oh. Now you have to go live.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

It's even bigger than what I thought she was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah, so so like now you're gonna have to go live it. And I uh I think it's interesting that you release this book and start your the company in 2019 because it's like now you have to go live it. Yeah, like when you write a book, like I always tell people, writing a book is like birthing an idea, a vision, or you know, whatever that is, but you're literally birthing something. I don't think I've ever wrote a book that didn't take me at least nine months.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

I'm not being trying to be weird about it, I'm just saying that's my experience. Every book I wrote, there was almost like a nine, 10 month process of like really like now again, there was countless hours of study and prayer and sermons and other things before that, but like nine months to really sit there and go, we're gonna put all of this and formulate it into a book. Yeah. And um, but but like it literally is like a book almost enters you into a new season of life.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, that's right. It's wild, and it's also uh it's it's it can feel almost like imposter syndrome too, because you say all this stuff and then when it's released, it's public. Yeah, and then you start to, like you said, you've got to live this. But also, there's been one element of this that over the past seven years, I realized not to be condemned about this, but this is a snapshot. It's like what they talk about in accounting, how the balance sheet is like a snapshot. It shows you account balances, like the you know, you've got your assets, liabilities, and equity. And it's it's it's a moment in time. This is who I was on July 22nd, 2019. Right. And so now that I've grown for seven years, I carry the like the blueprints of this, but I'm also like I am a new person and I have a new snapshot. Like there's a new, and it's and in some ways it's deeper, but also in in other ways it is a more accessible because over like I've released this and I've also grown in this desire to become more like Yeshua.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah.

Writing By Fire, Fathers, And Permission

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Who could connect with anyone in any situation, you know? Yeah. And and I want to be like if somebody's gonna access the depths of God, they like you don't get into the deep by skipping the shallow. Like there's gotta be some kind of like it's like that zero entry swimming pool, you know. Like, and so I wanna I wanna be enough of a friend to people who don't know God. Right. And and carry enough understanding to to teach this to a five year old so that I can introduce. Somebody into the God who is alive, but um, but I'm I'm a new person, and I I think for a while I I got kind of guilty about how, like, well, you know, somebody would ask me a question a year after I wrote it, and I'd almost be like, Well, that's what the book says, but in my mind I'm thinking, it's there's more to it though, like that I didn't write and I didn't see it at the time.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah, you know, that's called growing. Yeah, that's the only thing that sucks about being an author is that uh people try to define you by a book, yeah, and then you're ever evolving.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah, that's a great way to so like people are like they read something, and then like for me, it's almost cringe when people tell me, like, I read your book in 2015. I'm like, I didn't know who I was, yeah. I hadn't had my born again again experience yet. So like that book was while I was in the system. Yes. So like I look back at that and I go, and people are like, yeah, but it was really good. And I'm like, yeah, but there's so much more. And if I could, I'd go back and rewrite it, and maybe I will one day. But like that's the only thing that's tricky about being an author is if you are actually committed to the kingdom, there's no such thing as, well, I've just settled into this and this is how it's forever going to be. It's like no, no, no. How I defined peace in 2015 is not how I define peace in 2026 or like or freedom, yeah. How I define ministry, my values. Like I always tell people too, like, um, when I was a young preacher and I took my first spiritual gifts test. Have you ever taken one of those? No. Oh my god. I'm kind of glad though. Yeah, I'm glad you didn't. So everybody, if you're gonna be in ministry, if you're gonna be in ministry, you know, like every the big thing in ministry leadership culture at that time was take a spiritual gift test. Find out like what you're gifted at, what's your like the Enneagram?

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Or a personality test or whatever. But this is but it's actually like such such an indictment on you as a leader because I was like 22 when I first took it. Yeah, and my mercy gift on a scale of zero to 100, 100 being good, yeah, 10. My mercy gift was a 10. No mercy. Brother, by the time so when I hit 25, 26, we had built like we went from like 22, where I was just traveling around preaching at churches and being the cool evangelist. Now I've like, we've bought land, we've built this huge gathering place, people are moving in. I've got my teeth kicked in a few times from people in life. Yeah. And then I take that spiritual gift test again when I was 26, and my mercy gift was a 90. Wow. And it's like I tell that story just to say, like, people always try to like judge you for what they read about you or sermon they watched from 10 years ago, or a book you you wrote six years ago, seven years ago now. And it's like, I have moved on.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Which is why you need to write another book.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

That's right. And honestly, like what's what's crazy to me is like I I mentioned earlier, I don't know if we were recording yet or not, but like I remember the way it felt to receive this from the Lord. Like I know when God transmits revelation and it collides with my spirit, I know. Yeah. And and it's I don't know if that's a developed thing or if just like, you know, because I've I've had people ask me before, you know, like I had a guy one time, we were sitting at lunch, and he at the time he was a professional fighter and an atheist. Um, and today he is no longer a professional fighter, he's a fireman, but he's not an atheist. He got rocked in our New Year's services at the homestead this year. Come on. Absolutely rocked. He's an amazing guy. So uh sick around the time I was writing this, I don't know, six, seven years ago, we had lunch, and I uh and all the time you'll hear me say, The Lord said, the Lord said, and he'd asked me, he goes, What do you mean you keep saying like God said? He's like, Like, do you hear a voice? Like, what do you mean? And I said, It's not so much that I hear a voice in my heart, it's that I think a thought, and in my and and I'm and I almost immediately know that that thought came from another source. Like, which is probably why David in Psalm 139 would say something like, I oh, how precious your thoughts are to me, oh God. How vast is the sum of them. He just said he thinks the thoughts of another being. Yeah. And so it's like I I when I feel these things hit, I know it. And so I knew how this felt when I received it. But when I think about if I were to write another book, I have had another feeling like this. And it's probably the only time I've had a feeling like this in the recent three years, and it was about two years ago when Pops told me to read a book called On the Um On the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius of Alexandria. And I read that, I pick up the book, and like we were joking about earlier. I didn't read the whole book.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

I read the chap. I read the chapter I wanted to read. Yeah, we were going through my library in here, and it's like, you've read all these books, right? And I'm like, yeah, right. It's like maybe two or three chapters out of each one.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

My favorite chapter based on the table of contents. Um but I picked it up and um actually no, I I went to an audio book and I listened to it. I listened to the introduction or the first chapter over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And the the whole thing, the thing that really wrecked me, and it I didn't realize that I this was the first time I realized that I still um I still viewed the cross as the moment that God was pouring out wrath on the sun. So I guess I realized that there was that penal substitutionary theory of the atonement, I guess is what you'd call it. But um I remember reading it and it said, you know, he opens it up by talking to a spiritual son named Macarius, I think, and then he says, We must continue in the faith of our holy religion and consider the word made flesh and his divine appearing in our midst. That mystery the Jews traduce, the Greeks deride, but we adore. And it says that our he says that our piety toward him might increase and be multiplied. And so I was just I I listened to that one thing, like, and I realized that, oh, to go deeper in devotion, I can go deeper in considering his appearing in our midst and the word being made flesh. And so and then I I that really started to mess with me, but then the there was a few sentences down, he says, Um, he's I'll never forget like the first time I heard this is what I felt when it was he says, the first fact we must consider is this that the um renewal of the creation was wrought by the selfsame word who made it in the beginning. It was like a bomb went off in my spirit. The renewal of the creation has been wrought by the selfsame word who made it in the beginning. So good. And it's like I begin to see it it literally, if I had to make it simple, like God is alive, I would say Jesus is God.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Like God being alive and in this what birthed this entire revelation. Now it's like the thing that's catapulting me into more revelation about God that's awakening me to who I truly am and how I can make an impact on the world around me is that one statement. Jesus is God.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

It's good.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Like Jesus appeared in our midst, but he wasn't like an addendum to the original God who was who commanded the world into existence. He was the manifestation of the God who who desired the world into existence. That's right. You know? And uh I think that if I did write something else, it would have to, it would have to do with the fact that that one understanding has rearranged my entire interior world.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

It's beautiful, man. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah, books are like I I try to explain to people, um, it's like writing a book like what you've wrote or some books that I've wrote, they're really like received. Like you had like thoughts that you had, but then when you actually sat down and wrote them, sometimes by the time you're done, it didn't even go the way you thought it would go. Like, and then you step back from it and you go, Did I write this book?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yes. A hundred percent. Do you ever feel that way? A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Like I like I would literally have these writing sessions where I would be like, Okay, today I'm going after this one idea.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

And we're just gonna go. And I had my notes laid out, like this is how this thought works in my brain. It's just like, and then you write, and next thing you know, you're like where it the journey didn't go like this. The journey went I know.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

All and and it was like you realize too, there's almost a measure of humility that comes with it because you're like, I can't be cocky about this. I I didn't do that. I didn't do that.

Athanasius, Atonement, And “Jesus Is God”

SPEAKER_02 30:59

That was like exactly how I felt.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

He gave it to me. Yeah, you know, it's received. There's a part of this that I remember and I still am fascinated by because I don't remember writing it, but there's a portion, I think, when I'm talking about um oh you didn't know this was gonna be an author podcast, but here we go. I guess it is. But it at after the first five chapters that are very spiritual, the sixth chapter, I was asleep on an airplane going from LA back to Mobile, and I woke up and immediately received the blueprint to the sixth chapter. It's like I saw it in a flash. And so I pulled out a piece of paper from my bag and I started scribbling. I still have that piece of paper I scribbled on in my office upstairs at home. And it's called the age of dreaming and building. And I realized all of this revelation about God was intended for us to really see him for who he really is, understand like his plan for the fullness of time, but it awakens us to who we are. And when we have those, when we're awakened to that, it enters us into this age where we can dream the way we're supposed to dream and build the way we're supposed to build. And I wrote this thing in here. Part of the blueprint I saw had to do with people throughout history who had a significant impact on technology that in but that the impact did not come from them inventing some new thought, they observed what was already happening in creation.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

And so, like, you know, I think I mentioned the the whole Isaac Newton with the the apple that fell. He observed the apple falling. He had the question can I measure the acceleration of that apple from when it leaves this branch to when it hits the ground? Can we measure that change? And by the time he was 26, he was the inventor of differential calculus. Wow. Oh no, I'm sorry, he he was the inventor of differential calculus and then he turned 26. Like and this this came from in 1665. He was going, I think it was Oxford. They took a whole year off because the pla the plague had swept across Europe. So he took a year off from going to university. He's uh he's on his family's farm or their orchard or whatever, and he does what he just he said he spent the whole year doing mathematical brainstorming. And he's just it it the but the biggest impact came from him observing creation. Same thing with Albert Einstein. He would observe creation, he would have what he called a thought experiment, and then he would try and make sense of it mathematically, what he saw visually, and it would create entire technologies. Like he he literally had theories that led to to truths that now like the result of that is our global positioning system, like our GPS on our phone we can attribute to to some of the stuff that Albert Einstein produced. And so, like, we you know, um, there was another example about airplanes in there, like that, you know, we fly through the air in a metal can going almost the speed of sound, yeah, which is scary. Yeah, it's a glorified bottle rocket, as I heard somebody say one time, because this guy observed pressure differences when he when he sent fluid through a tube and it and and how it changed speeds, and he decided that if you build a wing, an airfoil where the air has to travel faster over the top than it does on the bottom, when it's when it accelerates, it reduces in pressure and it creates a force called lift. He's people are just observing what God has done. Yeah. And then we're taking that and we're partnering with it and literally like framing up the future.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah, dude, it's it's it's amazing to me. I I was thinking back to you saying the conversation you had with the the buddy of yours that just got rocked recently. Yeah. And he was like, What do you mean, like God said and and God saying, and what is that? Yeah. Um, I feel like um in the when I was writing one of my books in 2017, I wrote this book on warfare and um and basically calling out the myths that have come in the Pentecostal. What was it called again? Called Liar.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Liar. Okay, yeah. I remember seeing that one.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

So so like so I did this whole thing basically reforming the spiritual warfare message. Wow. And um, and just going like, here's the finished work thought on that. Wow. And um a lot of what we've called uh spiritual warfare is really the Scooby-Doo effect. Like the Scooby-Doo effect is this something freaky, mysterious, weird is going on, we're all scared, and then all of a sudden we take the mask off and find out it's a dysfunctional thinker.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

That like warfare is in the mind, real warfare is in the mind. Jesus, Jesus stripped principalities and powers of their authority 2,000 years ago. So what are we dealing with today? Thoughts. That's right, thinking, darkness, ignorance, darkness is ignorance, yeah. And so, like, so anyways, I so I'm processing that and I'm going, man, like I'm walking away from these writing sessions, going, that was not me. Yeah, and I remember going and talking with Dutch Sheets one time, and I said, uh, I said, sir, can you tell me? I'm like, I'm really struggling with this, like in prayer sometimes, and in writing sometimes. I'm like, which is me and which is him? And he said, Mark, there's a place in relationship with God where it's no longer, is that my thought or is that his thought? That's our thought.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Wow. Dude, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

And I've learned to I've learned to live in that to go. Wow. Yeah, like we have walked together enough now where it's not is that me or is that him?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah, it's us. And and the the it requires trust. Yeah. Like, do you know, because the the question always enters your mind, like, well, you know, would was did I hear rightly? Did was that really and there was a time where I tested it like all the time with other people just to because they wouldn't lie to me. Yeah. I mentioned that a couple times in the book. Like I'd I'd get an image of something and I'd ask somebody, like, hey, do you have a mother who last year had came uh died from a terminal cancer and she had um this kind of hair and she wore glasses? And I see this image of you beside her in a bed, like a hospital bed, and she's reminding you that she raised you as a kingdom man and to never forget that. And like had a dude in a car dealership trying to sell me a car in tears because I said that to him, and he was like, That's my mom. And there are other times when I'd be like, Do you have an uncle named Daryl with a broken leg? Like, nope, okay. Bye. Like, but I'd I realized You have to take the risk. I'm gonna just go, like, I'm gonna, and I did it enough to like know that you know, that if I'm wrong, there's grace. Yeah, if I'm right, it will it could empower somebody to change their entire life.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

I would rather risk missing it, yeah, than than miss like what God was trying to do. Exactly. I'd rather be wrong.

Revelation Becomes Blueprint: Dreaming And Building

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah. Like I don't mind and that's like when you're writing and that thought that thought comes up, I think that I almost kind of like feel safer when I feel like is this because like you think God likes to appear and and and manifest and reveal in ways that kind of like will shake us up at times. I mean, the end I think the entire um the entire narrative of Jesus showing up as the Messiah inside a culture who thought they had God figured out and then wanted to kill him because he appeared as God, but other than what we expected. So we wanted to kill the revelation because it was outside what we had expected for generations. Like I think I'm learning, thanks to a decade of sitting under Apostle Aaron and up many other people, that when God does something that feels other than, it's probably for your own good. Like it's probably to take you further. Um and uh and so I I remember having that feeling though, writing this, do even doing, you know, um even just being in business in general, you know, like I thought I would go into vocational ministry, like because it was so he like like the fire in my heart, and then getting brought in like into Apostle Aaron's like inner circle, and I was like, man, like he this man trusts me enough to like let me speak on his platform, like this must be my calling, and then all this stuff flips, and now I'm in full-time business. I don't have a seat in ministry, and I'm and it's like I expected for myself to go this direction, but it's like God is doing this thing that's other than, and when I finally embraced it, that's when stuff started to get fun, you know. Like when I when I stopped fighting with what he was trying to do and reveal in me and and embrace the reality that he like he has designed me for the ministry of the marketplace.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

It's good.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

I love like I'm like him, I'm like Jesus. Yeah. In that I love the 99, but I want to leave the 99. Yeah. Like I love the homestead, but I also love like our team at Wellhouse, who, yeah, there are probably 20 of them that go to homestead, but many of them do not go. Sure. None of my clients go to the homestead. I meet people, I meet contractors, inspectors, appraisers, lenders, people at open houses, none of them know anything about what's going on in the walls of that church. And like it's my joy to just exist in that context as somebody who could show light, like reveal light to them.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

You know?

SPEAKER_02 40:56

I was gonna, I was gonna take, I was gonna take you back and ask you to talk about like how you were born again and all that. Yeah. And maybe we can do that if you'll come back and do another podcast with me. Oh, yeah. Um, we can do that again. But I I think that's where I kind of want to hang our hat today is like, okay, you are inheriting this revelation, you're stewarding revelation too, um, in this really mysterious place. Yeah. And you feel like the Lord's aiming you at ministry. Like this is going to be my path. And you very well could do that. Like you're a great speaker and writer. So you can you can definitely do that. And I'm not saying that that won't ever be a part of it. Sure. Like, yeah, you know, I've learned in the kingdom you never say never. Yeah. Yeah. The Lord, just as fast as He flipped you one way, He can flip you the other way, brother. I've been flipped a few times already in uh short amount of time, but um kind of talk through that process of like, okay, I feel called to this, I'd have no seat for this. Sure. But I see this business thing opening up and and like I don't think your background is money, right? I don't feel like like did I come from money?

SPEAKER_00 42:09

No. I don't feel like that. I I am as a kid, I I watched our car get repossessed multiple times, and my mom would like make make it fun somehow. She'd be like, kids, come here, look. They're gonna they're taking the car, like let's all wave, and we'd wave. Like that's she like and I I love that about her that she would like make the fact that we're broke fun. She'd be like, We're having spaghettios, and I'd be like, Yeah, like let's go. And so that's what I came from, and I think that's why like I try and even today like make my kids hyper aware of the fact that God has been so good to us, yeah, you know. So but we can talk through that.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Yeah, so like but so like you guys have this really amazing, successful real estate company, but like before that, like infancy days where you're still wrestling with I thought it was gonna maybe look like this, but it it's not open up for me. Yeah, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 43:09

I can tell you exactly what it was like.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

I was working, um I and I say this because there are a lot of people in the kingdom right now that they thought their aim was ministry. Ministry, yeah. And God is so moving in the business right now. Like kingdom people that are in business right now, crazy stories.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Oh, and it's it's my favorite part too is that there are so many successful, wealthy people in business that you will be side to side with before you know it. Like you'll be sitting at the same table as them. Sure. And and you'll realize that they're miserable. And then it's like, oh 100 God, now I know why I'm here.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Cause this person has no idea who they are.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

They're not coming to your church.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Yeah, they're not. But they trust you as a as a man of influence.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

And and you've obviously got the resources and the reputation. So I've got a few thing a few things to say about that. Um, and so we got started, we kicked it off. Me and my best friend Matt White didn't know any, we didn't grow up here. So we get started on a word and and a revelation from Apostle Aaron to build, build, build, build. Apostle Aaron was not talking about rest. He he he embodies a a that revelation in a unique way, but he wasn't teaching it. He was he was like, build. I mean, because of his fatherly like um empowerment to do that, I was up all through the night, many nights. I mean, just completely sleep deprived for two years of my life because I couldn't imagine going to sleep when God wanted to do so many things through me. And in some ways, I wish I had that back now. You know what I mean? Yeah, like that, that kind of like childlike excitement.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Sure, sure.

Warfare Of Thoughts And Shared Mind With God

SPEAKER_00 44:51

So, anyways, we get started. We never knew anybody in this area, and we're in a relationship business. So we're already up a creek, right? Yeah, so we we start our first year in the whole year, me and him sold like$1.9 million in in real estate sales, which is probably in this area, it's about nine houses, maybe. Okay, which is pretty good, but it wasn't taken off like you know, obviously the way we wanted, but we were just really slow at getting momentum. And so, you know, we felt like the Lord um, you know, put put put a few things in us. One of them being like, don't like don't sacrifice family for the sake of the business, because if you do that to start it, you'll have to do that to maintain it. And then you'll be living your entire life on a sacrifice of family, which is just it's a nightmare. Um, but we like knew who we were through the process, though. And so while although we were waiting for the promised like increase, like the floodgates to open, we knew that part of that was maintaining the integrity of who we were in the process. That's good. Like I love Jesus and I want to serve my community. And if I meet somebody in an open house and they tell me that they have cancer, um, am I just gonna not want to get uncomfortable so I can capture the lead, or will I stop the stupid business facade to be like, listen, I want to pray for you. This might be strange, but God can heal you, I believe. And you know, like to maintain that. And so it it was like the first couple of years, we're just being exactly who we know we're created to be and stewarding that culture of just like honesty. Like anyone on my team at Wellhouse, there's over a hundred people now. They like if I'm teaching at church or if I'm at the homestead and they talk to me, it's the same guy that's at the business meeting on the beach, like for the company-wide training session. Like, I I will not compartmentalize who I am. Like, I will be the same person. And I felt like God honored that. But so, anyways, there was a year or two where we're really just trying to build momentum, and um, and I'm kind of like at and in those early stages, I'll be honest, I was a little bit, you know, like, is this gonna be the thing or is it gonna be something else? Or, you know, am I gonna go into ministry? Because I was teaching a lot during that time too. From 2019 to 2022, Apostle Aaron would have me teach a lot at the church. Um and uh I think I might have even spoken the last message on a full Sunday before um Damon showed up um for the shift. And so just a lot, right? Well, anyways, we're building this thing. I'm working another job to make things work. Apostle Laron calls me at about 10 o'clock on a on a Tuesday morning, and he know he don't ever call me unless it's unless I'm preaching or he's got something to correct me on, you know. Like he's just that's how he's like a dad to me, you know. So I walk out of the office and I answer it, and he goes, Hey Elijah, I got I gotta tell you something. This is this is from Yahweh, and I don't I don't ever do this, but I you need to I need to tell you. And I said, Okay. He said, What you are building will not thrive until you're all in. And I remember this fear came over me where I was like, but uh the salary, you know, the bills, family. I've I had been broke for a few years, and like we had, you know, prayed for money to get groceries to, you know, feed the kids. Like I'd been through that, and I was like, I don't want to put myself out there in a way that would create opportunity for that to happen again. Sure. But he told me, he said, man, he said, I'm telling you, what you're doing, what you're building will not thrive until you're all in. And it was that word from him that shifted like this kind of gear in my spirit and prepared me to receive a very similar word from Pops, from Damon Thompson, if you don't know who Pops is, from Damon. And then we went all in, and it was it was like a terrifying thing. But when we did that in 2022, the the in 2023, triple digit growth, 2024, triple digit growth, 2025, double digit growth. Like, and then now today we've got over a hundred people, and I think last year we did 210 million dollars in real estate sales. But it wasn't, and here's the thing is like it wasn't because I had to sacrifice who I was, because that's the thing about the world is like Babylon is very doggy dog and weird and very like um what's the word? Good old boy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Yeah, I was gonna say that would be the challenge for you and Matt originally in the business is you're in the south and it's the good old boy place, and like we've built our thing and we've kind of got our thing, and you guys are the new guys coming in.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

That's right. Yeah. And so we when we didn't start acquiring like new agents to grow for a few years, and it was intentional because we knew like this is who we are, this is our culture. And then when you start winning while being honest about who you are, there's something about being around somebody who's honest about who they are and not ashamed that electrifies the room. Like when you get around somebody who's not afraid to be who they are, it's and then you think like, here's this other successful person who's like, you know, people just in business know how to like put on the face and the mask and and the talk and the the handshakes and the smiles and the kissing babies and all that stuff. Like they know how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Yeah, the polish.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, but it's like when, but we have we have completely um stewarded a culture I think that is very unique and and youthful and faith-filled and and um and energetic, and it has attracted a lot of people. And so I say all of that to say it that word from Apostle Aaron was my was the permission granting force that took me from, I think I'm you know, I feel called to ministry, but we've got this business idea that we feel like the Lord gave us. And like if the business would thrive, then I would get like the confirmation I needed. But what do you do before you get confirmation? You know, like how do you believe when you don't have the evidence yet? True. And how long will you per like how long will you persist in that place until you see the reward of what you've been hoping for? You know, it reminds me of um of uh of Thomas in in John chapter 20, who's like, No, I refuse to believe that because they gave him good news. They were like, yo, Jesus is back. And he's like, nah. Like it's almost too good to be true. I refuse to believe this in until I see this and I see this and I touch this with my own hands. I can't believe. And so then it was eight days later, you know, he's hanging out with his disciple buddies. And I think this is significant. The Bible says all the doors were locked. He was so he was so like um hardened in his heart, in his unbelief, that every passage of access into his heart was locked.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

I mean, I really feel like that's what that paint was painting that it was like an an allegory or whatever you call it. So, but then a Jesus he Jesus appears in their midst and he's like, you know what, if you needed to see here, and he showed him. But I I've like my prayer for uh the past few months has been, and in fact, m man, maybe since November, when my wife had an encounter in a dream, she woke up in tears because of this moment where Jesus well, so it's a it's a I would love to have her share it one day, but Jesus appears to her in our room. I'm wrestling with the kids on the bed, and he appears and he shows her his hands, and she hears that song in her spirit, come touch my hands, come touch my side. Dude, it wrecked her, like and so it wrecked me that um that he would just kind of begin to invite us into this deeper place. Well, after that dream, I got stuck on this thing about Thomas, and now my prayer has just been just Lord, help me in my unbelief. Like if there's something about me that doesn't believe what you are waiting to pour out, and like and I'm being inhibited by a lack of belief, heal that thing in me that won't believe. Yeah, and it wasn't until Apostle Aaron called me as a I guess as a father and um uh a leader, you know, and he just told me, you know, hey, that it was like the grace to believe that it could be good. He said, It this thing won't thrive until you're all in. And we went all in and it has been thriving since.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

Um Yeah, I it's funny you say that. I love that you're you're like, um sorry. No, you're good. I love that um you're like f the first thing that I heard you say is when you wrote this book, Apostle Aaron was like, that's who you are.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

This is authentic to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Second thing that I hear in in your story that you're sharing today is then going all in with that authenticity into what you're building. Yeah, and that's the gift of fathers in your life is you know, like they're there to help you with identity and to give you that, like, go for it. This is you, you know. And um what do you think? Man, I got so many questions. Thanks. We're just gonna have to do more podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Yes, I got time.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Um, I I think for for me, did you ever consider yourself like an apologist? Like in the early days, like you were evangelistic.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah, well, I I wanted, I really loved listening to good apologists, and I was like, I'd love to be able to talk like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Because you had a heart for evangelism.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Yeah, right. Yeah. And I also was an atheist, like for a period of time. Mute that call. I was an atheist. And so I know that like most people are atheists because of an unwillingness to turn over the stone. I mean, that's really most of what it is, and yeah, and myself and other people is is that it's obviously it's this inflated ego, but also it's just like you haven't even looked yet.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Yeah, it's like I I just I just don't want to do this. And you're also hurt. So let me ask you another question. Okay. This is like got you on the hot seat here. Yeah. Okay. So you loved listening to apologists, but it wasn't because you wanted to be an apologist, you just wanted to be able to reach people with Christ. Yeah. Would you consider yourself a mystic?

SPEAKER_00 55:55

I d I would, yes. Okay. What what is that to you? To me, a mystic is somebody who sees things about God, um, who he is, maybe even like um, if these are the right words, you can help me ontologically and teleologically, like who he is and what he does. There are a lot of mysteries about that. We've got, you know, we've got a lot of great teachers and understanding, but there are people who have a grace to see things that have never been seen, to hear things that have never been heard, um, and who also have like the gift to communicate that um to people who cannot see those things and cannot hear those things, but would be better because of it. And so I think a mystic is kind of a combination of a seer, an oracle, but also a teacher. You know.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

So let me ask you this the taking those things at your heart for people, the the mystical side of who you are, does that help you in your business?

Business As Calling And Marketplace Ministry

SPEAKER_00 56:58

That's an interesting question. I I don't teach the contents of this book at Wellhouse.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Hey guys, before I sell you this house, let me tell you about the seven spirits. I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Yeah, you're gonna need to know this. Yeah, wisdom and understanding are holding hands. Does it help you though? It it has helped me. Not I I wouldn't say that the um some of the complex, like inner workings of some of this stuff, but the first thing that comes to mind, and I'm sure I could have more if I would like sit on this question for a while, but the first thing that comes to mind is that um a big part of you know what's woven into this book, the mystical things I've seen, I involve in that story Noah. And Noah was a man who is remembered uh at large as a guy who um who spent a hundred years of his life in toil, in building, building a ship, and and and doing that um with little to no promise of any impact culturally, globally. I mean, it was eight people. That's it. Eight people that were that were you know being saved by this thing he built. And so, but also what's interesting, fascinating to me is that he's he said yes to a whisper, and he built for a hundred years, generate generationally thinking, not you know, not financially thinking. He did it with generations in mind, knowing that the impact would be his family.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Here's what I think is fascinating about that. His name Noah is like I forgot the word, but that it's used, but it's like when I when a word sounds really close to another word, and so they link them together. His in the Hebrew word Nuach literally means rest. Yeah. So here's a guy who spent, you know, when he was another thing that's cool about it is he didn't start building until he was probably 500. Yeah. So it's never too late.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah, he was up, he was up there.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Yeah, he was up there. But he's he builds, he's remembered as a guy who built a vessel that delivered humanity. He saved the world. Saved the world by building for a hundred years, but his name was rest. And when his dad dedicated him after he was born, he said, This is the one that will deliver us from the toil of our hands. And I'm and so for me, that has been maybe like strategically in terms of the tools I use and my strategies to grow my business and stuff. Yeah, may maybe not super spiritual in terms of like that, but the principle of of some of these things that are woven into this book, like that moves me to continue building when I mean running a business is hard, man. Like it Yeah, it's challenging. It and then you learn stuff about the you know how much the government wants to take from you that just makes you want to burn stuff down. Like, I'm like, what? We gotta pay them how much? Like they didn't do anything. And so, like, there's a lot of like stuff about running a business that's difficult, but I think the the fact that he put this revelation in me and this desire to be a builder, um, to be a dreamer and a builder. Yeah, that's what I guess. I still I still think I'm we're establishing a framework. I I think we're building this business, is is we got a lot of people and we're moving houses, but I still think this is we're building a launching pad for future.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah, I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, business is helping people. So I I think in some ways, maybe it what I'm speaking to is maybe not so much practical as it is like your heart posture. Yes. Because I mean, for you to do what you do, you have to have a love for people. Yeah. And for you to do what you do, especially in how crazy the market has been over the past few years and the um interest rates and all the things that comes with its challenges too, you have to be optimistic, you have to be willing to be creative and um to problem solve. And so, like, I'll share this word with you, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. So the big um after January 1 through 7, and we came back and it was a Friday night, and Damon started talking about um eschatology. Yeah, and um, and he said he said something. He said, I'm I don't need you to agree with every nuance of what I'm saying, but what I need you to do is be optimistic. Yeah. And I remember that when he said that, I heard the Lord say, and that's what I need. Optic mystics. Oh, wow. And the Lord was like, for us to navigate into this season that we're that we're going into, this this age that we're stepping into, yeah. Um you have to be able to see things optimistically. Wow. Yeah. Like, like, which tells me it's kind of like um Isaiah chapter six, the seraphim come in. Isaiah's in a moment where Israel's backslidden, yeah, the ministry he's about to receive is just basically calling Israel in there, speaking to Israel in a day where they're furthest from God.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

And the seraphim come in in this encounter, and this is what they say. Like, Isaiah has plenty of evidence to know Israel's not in a good place, but the seraphims say the whole earth is filled with the glory of God. That word glory could just be translated goodness. Wow. So they're just saying, so, so the optimistics, they have this is what I've been mining out. They have seraphimis. What are seraphimis? Well, no matter what I see happening, I still see the earth filled with the goodness of God. Wow. And so, like, just kind of like kind of like the time the the times we've been around each other, the times that we hang out, I feel like you have a really great attitude about life. Wow. Which now I'm finding out your mom celebrating the repos probably helped with that. Maybe so. Yeah. Yeah. Being optimistic. That she's she's she's helping you all build some resilience and yeah, being optimistic. But but like you being given permission to be authentic, you being given permission to go all in and then tie that in with your heart for people, and you're you're a mystic. Yeah. Which, which I think my simple definition would be of mystic is to see God in everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Yes. Dude, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

To just, I mean, that like that's the math of the.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

That's why I struggle with people making stuff overly spiritual. Because I think when I wake up and I get ready to present myself to a client who has a need to sell a house, right? And I and I give them the red carpet, that feels spiritual to me. Like I feel like, I feel like it's love. This I'm serving them. Yes, like love. And and then on another side of that is to bring in people who desire to have more for their families, who are like, I'm working my butt off. My husband has a full-time job. Um, I want him to be able to not have to work so much so we can spend more time. So we bring these people in who get their real estate license, are dreaming of a better future, just like we dreamed of a better future. And we get to pull them in and like literally mentor them and say, like one of the things that Matt White talks about at every single business meeting we have, no matter what the topic is, he talks about what is your goal? How are we gonna reverse engineer it? And he pulls out every strategy and idea that he can. He's not withholding something that works for him that he doesn't want someone else to do because it'll get them more. He's like, no, no, no, no. Here's here's what you can do. There's more than you're gonna make a hundred thousand your second year in real estate because you're gonna do this, this, this, then you're gonna do this, this, this, you're gonna build this system, and you're gonna and you're gonna set your calendar to do that every single month. And like there's there's this element of like to me, that is like it feels like I'm God in the flesh, like helping, like giving myself. Like I'm I'm pouring out everything I have to make sure that you succeed because I want you to feel that freedom that that I've felt. Like in uh I think a good a good way to like like remember the story of of um Paul and Silas, they're in prison and they are singing hymns, right? They're chained up, they're locked up, they sing hymns. When they're singing and worshiping, the gates, the gate breaks open, the chains fall off. And um, we have, I think, for so long made that story about freedom from chains. And it's all about personal freedom. Like if you will worship, God will set you free.

unknown 1:05:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

But the thing that about that story that like it's not about him, it's not about Paul and Silas being set free. It's about them. It's like they had no regard for the prison gate and they have. Had every regard for the prison guard. It was true. Like literally, they were like, the guard wakes up, he's like, Oh crap, everybody left. Because he'll die. They'll kill him. Yep. But Paul and Silas are like, hey, we're still here. And they focus, even though they had freedom, they they weighed, they focused on no, no, no, we want to bring this guy with us. We don't just want to get out of slavery, financial slavery, slavery to a job, whatever, like Babylonian. So good, man. But they're like, no, I don't just want to get out. I want to bring him with me. Like that guard. And then it turns out his him and his whole family got saved.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

And so, like, when I when we have these big company meetings, like all of this started when I think when we decided like early on that we would have this culture and we would not shift from that. This is who we are. And so we still have that same culture today. We just have added a hundred people with us who are like they sense that that I'm I'm not withholding from you. I want to empower you to make$300,000 this year so that you can have the life that your family dreamed about having. It's beautiful. And when I see that, that's spiritual to me. When I see their Instagram post that they went on a vacation that was lavish and expensive, and I'm I'm looking at this post, I'm like, that is spiritual to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Like the trend, the actual transmission of resources from here over into their life, and it's giving their family joy and peace. Like there was a time in my life where these mysteries were spiritual and they had no practical application, but now I'm graduating into I carry this, but I want to see the practical.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

And the word became flesh. It's incarnation.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

Incarnational. Yeah. If that's a word.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

Yeah. Well, we made it a word today.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

Incarnational.

All In: The Word That Shifted Everything

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. So all right. So it's 2026. Yeah. You started it in 2019 when you first started. Um do you feel like do you feel c more authentic today in your in your business robes? Um and I I guess what I'm saying again, because I went back to than when I was mostly in ministry. Thinking that I was going to just be in ministry.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

I I do. Um and uh and it's interesting because I feel like the business robes that now it is like a part of who I am. Like I t I've been telling my wife this year, she's getting back into selling real estate this year after spending a couple years, like just you know, with our son who's about to turn two. Um and uh I've been telling her, like, man, I feel something different about this year. Like, I I'm not gonna take any days off this year. And at first she was like, I don't like that. Like, I want you to take some days off for family, but I said, No, no, no, it's not that. It's I don't want to take any days off this year from who God created me to be. So no days off doesn't mean grind harder. No days off means wake up with intention every day. So good. Wake up and and and get up earlier, like maybe just a little bit earlier, have a cup of coffee. Like, I'm not saying wake up and grind, wake up and have some coffee and like meditate on the Lord and like he wrote a book about this day. Maybe wake up and like try and read some of that book. Understand what does he want to happen today? And so if I feel more authentic in my business robes today, but I also feel like it's it's it's the the the big picture is to serve the ministry. Like I obviously there's a financial part of that. Like, you know, we get to give more. I we've been basing like it mentally in the back of my head, when I see my contribution statement in January, I'm like, that I'm basing my success on contribution statements. Like because there was a year where I remember I once had a job and got paid that much for the year, but that's what I gave for the year. Yeah. And that that to me, I was like, this is a testimony to that's right. But it's there's something, a story. Um, so when um and I this is I'm using this to reinforce what how business can serve the church, is it's still and it's very mystical at this point in time. I'm still unpacking it. But uh after the crucifixion, Jesus had a lot of disciples, right? Like you've got Peter who was, you know, a fireball, and you've got John who was just a lover boy, and you he's surrounded by these guys who were fishermen, right? But we learn about a new disciple after Jesus is nailed to the cross, it says one of Jesus' disciples, Joseph of Arimathea, I think is how you say it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

He's the one who went, it said he is a rich man. Uh-huh. So Joseph was not a fisherman. He might not have been present for all those things that happened. Maybe he wasn't at all of the services because he was a business owner, uh, he's in the marketplace, maybe he wasn't at every prayer meeting. We didn't hear about him at all through the narrative of his Jesus' ministry. But then we hear that Joseph, the rich disciple, is the one who had the resources and the reputation to go before Pilate and to reclaim the body of Christ. It was because of Joseph, like the rich disciple. And again, it still feels mystical, but it feels incredibly significant.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

Like protecting and preserving God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

The body of the body of Christ. Yeah. He and and so I have felt like there's an like an because the body, I mean it it is the image of the church. Like we that's the word we use to describe the church. So it was the body of Christ that he was going before Pilate to reclaim. But it's also in my mind, it's gotta be about the body of Christ. Like when the body of Christ has has those people who are walking with Jesus that have great resources and a reputation in the marketplace, and we are trusted and we are respected, what can we do for the body to reclaim it from maybe having been nailed to a tree by religion and the empire? Like, how can we help deliver the body more from like f out of this captivity? Yeah, you know, just from our resources and reputation, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

It's beautiful, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:31

Um, and I don't have all the answers to that, but I feel like my business robes and like becoming who I am, even though I'm imperfect and like I I want to really focus on improving in a handful of areas because I'm just still growing, you know. Yeah, that never stops. But like I'm I do feel more authentic, and I think that's going to empower me to help really lead other people out of financial captivity so that we can really focus on just resourcing the body of Christ. That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

You know, so good. So man, thank you for having this conversation with me, man. I I'm like, um, we got to do it again because I'm like, there's so many other things I wanted to talk about, and we but I love it. It was a great conversation, but I want to say this to you like, man, um my wife and I have talked about this, like just we love your spirit, your heart, like who you are, what you bring to the room. Like there are people that show up, and when they show up, uh you can feel it. You're one of those people. Yeah. And um I love you, I love your heart. I love but but more importantly, like you're you guys are building a very successful business. And I feel like uh, at least to me, you're handling it really well. Yeah. Because like I look at your wife, though. Here's the fruit of it. Your wife, she just looks like she's having a great time. Yeah. And you're you have one of the you have some of the cutest kids on the planet. My wife and I talk about that a lot too. I'm like, your your babies are beautiful. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, I say the same thing. Thank you, Jesus. Um, but man, you have a beautiful family, and the books and the business and all of that is great, but like your spirit, your heart, your attitude, your character, and the fruit I see in your family is all that matters. And that's there. You got that. So you win. I appreciate that. But yeah, man, will you come back and do another one?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

I will come back.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

Yep, that's right.

unknown 1:14:35

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

Hey, I appreciate it, man. Um, again, um just thank you all for being a part of these conversations. I think it's so important, Elijah. Like your story. Um, again, so many people that are in ministry, and then we we have this weird thing of like we're either this or that. We have to be this thing or that thing. Yeah. And it's like the one identification that we all receive in the body of Christ from the book of Revelation is King Priest. Yes, that's right. And so, like, we get to be both. And um, and so like, but there are times though the Lord will have us go deeper down a path, and it seems like the other thing kind of gets not shelf, but it's almost like it's just not what God's moving on that season. Yeah, it that doesn't make it a less part of who you are. That's right. It's just God bringing another part of you to the surface. You brought up Noah a little bit ago. Noah's always known as the ark builder, but when the ark it lands, it says, and Noah became a farmer.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

And it's like, so is he an ark builder or a farmer? He's both. That's right. That's in him. Those things are in him. And um, and the Lord, like, you're you're not um, I guess this would be the part that's super important for me to say to leaders is you are not less than right now because God's aimed you at something that's outside of the church, yes, out of vocational ministry. Like it may be that God so believes in you that he would take you out of the comfort of the church for you to be the church in the culture. And I think that that takes a unique group of people to go into Babylon and represent Christ because you said it earlier, um, like it's dog eat dog. Well, that's really like what Jesus' heart is. You're going out as sheep among wolves.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

But I think what you and Matt White are proving, though, is you can be sheepish and win.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:37

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

You can be like the lamb in the mat in the in the lion's den, yeah, if you will. And God, it works. Yeah. It works.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

And it will flourish.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Not just work. So, dude, we got so much more to talk about. We'll we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

I'm gonna stop talking about the three times.

Culture, Integrity, And Scaling Wellhouse

SPEAKER_02 1:16:58

We'll try, we'll try to get you in next month. That sounds good, man. Man, I really appreciate you. And again, guys, I know that we didn't plan on talking about this at all. I brought this book out just to remind him he signed he signed my copy. But Zion Here and Now, man, was a great book. And remember, when you read it, don't define him by that. That's what he wrote in 2019.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:18

Seven years ago. You know, cut me some sets.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

There's more to him than that, but man, I appreciate you and thanks for being a part of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:25

I love you and I honor you. And and I I want to say this on record. I was playing drums the other night. You got up to um to speak at the end of worship and just kind of is it called exhort?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

So you're like, you're exhorting, right? I saw your daughter, and her hands were raised, and she was looking at you, listening to what you were saying, and she's just shaking her head. Like she's being so moved by what her daddy was saying. And I just thought, that's what I want. I want that, like I want my kids to look at me the way she looked at you that night. So I honor you for that. Thank you, man. Yeah, you won.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:56

Yeah, we win, dog.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:57

We won.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:59

I appreciate it. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

Love you, Mark.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

Love you too, man. Thanks for that.