How Pastors Can Grieve, Heal, And Lead Again

Some of the hardest moments in Christian leadership are not the public failures, they’re the quiet losses: the friendships that fade, the team that disappears, the familiar community that suddenly feels gone. We sit down with a vulnerability alert and tell the truth about the last year and a half, leaving Covington thinking we would never come back, then returning with hearts that are more healed, more whole, and more dependent on the Lord than ever.

We talk about ministry transition and pastoral grief in a way that’s honest but still hopeful. That includes the pain of watching relationships change, the shock of leadership shakeups, and the questions leaders ask when support drops off. We unpack koinonia as a shared life in Christ, not just shared hobbies, and why a desire to move toward a Book of Acts church can challenge institutional church expectations. We also share what inner healing looked like for us, how God can trace today’s pain back to old wounds, and why healing often requires more than “just move on.”

A major takeaway is learning to love with no strings attached. We confront the mental list of wrongs, the pull toward bitterness, and the freedom that comes when we bring grief into the light through honest prayer, honest conversations in marriage, and safe relationships. We also talk about how unforgiveness can live in the body, why bitterness is a real warning sign, and how to choose gratitude, grace, and courage while you rebuild.

If you lead people, love people, or feel like you’re starting over, press play, then share this with someone who needs strength for the next season. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what part of the healing process you’re walking through right now.

Transcript

Vulnerability And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_04 0:00

All right. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Christ is light. I am light. Well, are you ready for this? I'm ready. This is gonna be a big one.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

Vulnerability alert. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Vulnerability alert.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Talking about the last year and a half, basically, of leaving Covington thinking we would never come back to now we're here and the lessons in between. And I think this is going to be really helpful to leaders and pastors out there because I know that the Lord allows us to go through things so that when we come out on the other side, we're able to strengthen our brothers. And that's what Jesus said to Peter. He said, Simon, Simon, Satan has desired to sift you as wheat, but don't fear, I've prayed for you that your faith fell not. And when you come back to me, go and strengthen your brethren. And so I think that a lot of times we think in the natural things that look like failure makes us want to just throw up our hands and give up. And in the kingdom, God does this amazing thing where the things that we think disqualifies us, or the things that we think we're just not good at, or the things that we feel like we were failures in, he actually uses that to qualify us and to be able to turn around important others. And I think there are a lot of leaders that probably have similar backgrounds as me and you, where you've been doing it a certain way all of your life, and then God turns your whole world upside down and says, I want you to lead a completely different way. Well, the problem with leading a completely different way is not your own process of surrender, but now you're gonna have to take this really obscure path that you're not fully familiar with, and then look at other people and say, come follow us. Uh for not that we're first, you know what I mean? First for a lot of people that would be following us in ministry or look to us for leadership, is you know, the Lord said this to me one time. He said, Mark, you're not just prophetic for what you say, but you're prophetic for what you go through. And the Lord allows us to go through these seasons of brokenness, feeling like you were deserted, feeling like you were betrayed, feeling like allowing your whole world to fall apart just for you to be able to lean into him in that season and go, There are other people that have gone through this and they're not healed. There's other people that are about to go through this and they're gonna need your voice, they're gonna need your example. So, this episode is gonna be our transparency, our vulnerability, not aimed at trying to say something to our past, but really speaking to the heart of leaders and people that are saying, Mark, I'm hearing this call, this ancient call to go back to the book of Acts, to leave the institutional models behind, and for us to press forward into this good news message, the presence of God, and the church looking like family again.

Leaving Covington And Returning Changed

SPEAKER_04 4:00

So, are you ready to really talk about this?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

I'm as ready as I can be. No, I'm ready. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

It's I think it's time. I think it's time. We we have when we left Covington, what's it been now, 14, 15 months ago?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

March of the year before last year.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Fifteen so fifteen months, something like that, 16. Um we were just like, wow, this is really happening. And the past 16 months, 15 months, whatever, I feel like we have really, besides the people that we did life with in Mobile, we really took that time to allow the Lord to work on us and to heal and to forgive. Uh well, let's back up, to grieve, um, to heal, to allow things to come to the surface that we didn't even know was there, and to really go through what I would look at now a true inner healing, a true sozo, um, which I've never fully dishonored that ministry, but I've also not really honored it. I've been very indifferent about it. It's just like just have an encounter with God and move on.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

But these past like 16 months, the Lord like took me through encounters, and maybe, maybe we won't talk about this just yet. But like where He walked me back even into my childhood and walked me back into different moments to show me where this brokenness and this hurt, like, why did these relationships hurt me so deeply? And it really wasn't about what they did to me. It was exposing something that was even deeper in there from my childhood. And like, I feel like you and I both, and you can testify to it however you want. I feel like where we're at right now is the most healed we've ever been, the most whole we've ever been, yes, but also the most dependent on the Lord that we've ever been. And I think that's a really and and because of that, the most authentic place we've ever been in, which is why I think we're we're ready to have this conversation. So um you and I were kind of in this place where we were like we had just closed the doors on the church, we spent about what five months kind of by ourselves because we kind of closed the doors in October of 2024. Yeah. And so we took about five months of just living here in Covington, and we were just like, well, I guess we'll just live here.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, and we had gotten into a real good rhythm and just doing life together as a family.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

We were forced at that point to really um be by ourselves. Yeah. Like that was the first, I think, holidays we've ever not had people at our house and where it was just investment, us. It was wild. And we had had so many relationships already um leave at that point um that we were just kind of here and just going, what what are what is happening? Yeah. But we did find a good rhythm for us and uh walking, talking, and the healing process was already beginning.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

The most intense grieving part of my process were in those first five months. So it gave us at least gave me space to grieve on like privately, um those relationships and those things.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

So so then that's a

Leadership Shakeups And A New Model

SPEAKER_04 8:05

good place to start. So let's let's back up a little bit. Okay. And so um where this really began for me is we were already in a place where we didn't know what to do. Um my spiritual father, Damon, called me. He said, You and Destiny are having conversations. Like he was like, I had this vision, I saw you and Destiny talking, I saw you ascending. And he said, the decisions that you're making and the things that you're feeling God call you to is going to shake your entire leadership. And at that time, I'm like, Well, how much more could we be shaking? Our church is already burned down. We're meeting with our leaders every week. I feel like we're pretty strong. Yeah. And in like 72 hours, we lost half our leadership from that phone call. Like from the time he talked to me, and within 72 hours, half of our leaders were gone. And the conversations that we were having privately were were conversations of like, okay, we've had time to really look at this thing. We've been here now for five years. Like, this is where I think we've done really well. This is where I think we've missed it, and we need to make adjustments. One of the things that I really did was I over-corrected in um religion or to come out of religion. So it was like, okay, I want nothing to do with anything that I know of the old church world, which meant I buried some of my authenticity in ministry, but also like I wanted everybody to feel welcome. And everybody, so like I had an open door policy. Everybody just come on in, and and then I wanted to be funny, and I didn't want anybody to feel like there was a religious environment at all. And so, like many times when I would feel God stirring me in my revival stirrings, I would be like, no, no, no, let's like just family, let's just make it all family. And so that was one of the things we were talking about was okay, we've overcorrected in this. And it's like, I still want family, but I want true koinanea. And these were conversations that we were having is what is true koinanea then? Because koinanea is not just a shared life because we share hobby like hobbies and like interests. Koinanea is a shared life in Christ. And we were like, man, some of this stuff that we call koinanea is just people um being carnal. And there's nothing wrong. Carnal to us is not bad. Carnal is not sin. Carnal is just earthly, fleshly. But we were born for awakening and revival and the move of the spirit. And I had watched some of that taper off um in our community and was like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, we're gonna get more intentional about prayer, we're gonna get more intentional about like pursuing the face of God. And so those were the type of conversations you and I were having during that period. And then like he calls, drops that word after you and I have been processing this stuff privately, and then he was like, it's gonna shake your leadership. And I was like, okay, like how much more, you know, but there was so much more. And I don't feel to get into any of that. It is what it is. Um, people make decisions, they move on, they want to do something different, but that still has an effect on us. And so I want to talk not about what happened, I want to talk more about how we stewarded our hearts in that season. Okay. Because I can look back now, I don't blame anybody. I'm I'm healed enough to say I have no bad feelings about anybody. I'm even able now to start following some people again and cheer them on from a different place. Like I'm not this in their life anymore, but I still love them, care about them, and now I'm whole enough to go. I can look at them and be like, come on. So, like, we're in a whole different place than we were back then. But for a second, let's go back. You grieved before I did. Um, I I don't know why that is. I think I was just I had to focus on the business because like when we made that shift, it was like we thought maybe people would still be there for us. We thought support would still be there financially, we thought all of that. And it was like as soon as we made that announcement, it was over. Some people we never saw again, people never gave again. It was just like as far as like locally, and we were just like, oh, people were connected to us because of this thing we were doing. And I feel like they're not really connected to us, which is exactly what if we backed up even further, we're not going down all this rabbit trails, but we had a prophet call us and say, like, God's gonna show you in this season who's going to church and who's actually walking with the Lord and walking with you all as leaders. Whoo boy was he right. Like we found that out. And so we had the word of the Lord, but the word of the Lord still didn't exempt us from the grief. Like we had the word of the Lord, we kind of were prepared that that was stuff was coming, but it was

The Real Feelings Behind Grief

SPEAKER_04 13:40

like, how do we deal with it? So you grieved first. How did you how did you do that? What's that what does that look like for you for me?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

I would say it was a new type of grief. I think there's I think grief is grief, but I feel like it kind of feels different with different scenarios that you go through. And this was a newer um experience with grief for me. So I didn't really have like a way that I had processed it before. So it was really me learning how to process this, and I think I've learned to allow myself to not be okay. I would say to really feel it, to not stuff it and just to try to act like it's not there, it's not happened. It's like, no, this is real, this is real life, this is happening, this has happened, this is um and it's not ever, it's not gonna be the same, you know? And I think lots of tears, I think processing like allowing yourself to feel all the things. There were lots of tears.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

I mean days and um lots of prayer.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I think learning safe places that you can talk. Um and that's one thing that you have challenged me to do is to grow in my verbal communication because I have always been an inward processor and I have done that really well.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

That's not and it's not a terrible thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

No, but you are an outward processor.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Oh, yeah. And so Which can be a terrible thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

So, and you know when I'm going through things and when my wheels are turning and you want to know, and so I a lot of times haven't had known how to get what's I'm processing here and here, yeah. Verbally, like some I do better with like writing or like texting or you know, whatever, but learning how to really in that space, really learning how to communicate like the things that I'm feeling with you and with um another really close relationship that really helped me through all of that.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

What what like what did you feel like? Like, what was what does grief feel like? I feel like people grieve differently. So, like, what did that look like for you? Like, I know you're you're already jumping into like what you learned, yeah, but I mean, what did you feel? Because I I don't feel like people will really appreciate that. Well, hold on, I don't think people will really appreciate how some of the solutions or things that you found as a solution unless they know how you felt. And because you and I, just so people have context, really gave our lives to people. Like it was not that we just went to church with people, it was like we were invested. We spent time. Oh, yeah. Um we had people at our house every single week. We hosted birthday parties, we had children's ministry on our in our field out here. Yeah, we were constantly doing things with a group of people, and then to just feel like that was ripped out of your life, like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

I mean, these are people that I mean we love like our own children, yeah. Like that were for royal family. And for us, Queen Ania, uh one of the definition definitions that like we use is like braiding our lives together in Christ. And I had given myself to that with these people, some of them for Elijah's 16 years old. At that time, it would have been for 15 years, like very deeply and very intentionally braiding my life together with these people, and then them just decided not to be a part of our lives.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

And it's like which again, we're not getting into why that happened or whatever, just giving people context. Because at the end of the day, I'm sure Desi and I, I'm sure we didn't handle everything perfectly. I guarantee you we didn't handle everything the way p some people wanted us to. Um, because everybody has opinions of how things should be done. So there's no blame here. I just want context.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yes. I think that we had I had said yes to the Koinania lifestyle and really braided on my life together with these beautiful people who I still love unconditionally and still to this day.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And I have nothing but the best. Like I pray for them, I hope the best for them, um, and I celebrate them like from a distance. But that's okay. I think again, you just learn. It's like, and we've talked, I mean, we'll get more into it, but it's like in that, like you grow in love, like it helps you to grow in love, even when you go through hard things. It's like, is love real? Like you find out how you really feel. It's like, no, like that love is real. It was real and it is real because

Free Will, Discernment, And Honouring Marriage

SPEAKER_01 19:45

on the other side, like I still love them.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

So one of the hard parts for me in the beginning, um, because I've watched you kind of go through this a couple of times, is you have the propensity to be like, why did God do this to us? You know, it's like I remember, and we we can this is a whole nother podcast probably, but I remember going through the miscarriage, and it was like, why did why didn't God do something different? Um, when we lost our salary and had to leave our home, your first every time you grieve hard, it's like your first question is why did God do this? And what's my response to you every single time?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

If Jesus went through it, so are we. So will we.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

That that that's one point.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

God doesn't do that to us. It's not God, it's people, it's people. People make those choices and people make those decisions and they have free will.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Yeah. So I mean, like, that's a that was hard. So even you went to that place of like, why would God allow us to give our hearts to these people just to go through this? What what were some other feelings maybe that you had, if you can remember? I know that was a big one.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

I felt shocked.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I feel like in lots of the things that we've gone through, I've felt like the Lord was like punking me, like the show punked.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

Oh, yeah. Ashton Kutcher.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

It's like something happens, and it's like this is not real. Can't be real. I'm just like looking up, just waiting for him to be like, gotcha, just kidding. And then it's like, no, this is real life destiny. And we're gonna get through this, like this two shot pass. And one thing that I always say is, you know, we can choose to let these things make us bitter. But I refuse to let things happen like that to make me bitter. Like I'm choosing. I mean, every person has a choice.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And I'm always saying. I'm going to choose for this to make me better and brighter. Like I wanna be the brightest that I possibly can be.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Yeah. And I wanna, I want this is gonna work out for my good.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Always, yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

And for their good.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

And like, you know, because I I look back over that season and like I kept telling you, I was like, well, first of all, God didn't do this to us. You know, people have free will, they make their own decisions. And so like you went all the way in on the grief thing. And I still was like, well, we I gotta make we gotta make money. I gotta make money. I gotta do something. So like I'm going all in on the business, and I think that was my one thing is I've got to provide for my family. I've got to take care of them. So I didn't have time to grief, uh, to grieve, but you did. And I watched you and I tried to be as supportive as I could, but like that, you were in a moment where it was like, you made the list. I did this for this person, I did that for this person, and you would go through that list. I didn't go through that list until months later, and then you were already like, you were past your grieving process, and you were like, I told you. I told you. And and like probably the hard part for me was you saw a lot of this coming, and I was so like, I just want people to get involved. And like I totally bypassed that. And if there's anything I could say to anybody right now, is listen to the Holy Spirit, men, because he sounds a lot like your wife. Um, but like you had such discernment, and I was I would hear you, but like I just wanted everybody to be involved, and I wanted everybody to be a part, and then stuff would happen. You had to grieve me not listening to you. Yes. And that hurt my heart. Like once I realized that I didn't really listen, then that hurt my heart. And I and and um to it's one thing to watch you grieve other people. It's another thing to watch you grieve and be like, I told you three years. I mean, sometimes you were like, I told you three years ago this would be what would happen. And um, not to try to make you sound like you're 100% accurate on everything that you hear, but like looking back on that season, you did not miss, and I and I hate it. And then but it had to be that extreme for me to get it. That's kind of how I am. It's like the Lord has to put it in my face and just be like, son, get this, you know? And um, but to watch you grieve all of that, um, and just have all of that stuff kind of ripped out of your life. Um I want to say something of what you just said.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Sure. Um even in that I key that helped me like keep trusting the Lord and what he was showing me and not to question it. It's like to keep praying for that. And you always tell me in those moments, like you just pray, you know, and things can change. Yeah. And I believe that it's like we don't just expect the worst, like the Lord will give you warnings about things, but it's like, but he also shows us things to pray, you know, and to believe for, and people have free will at the end of everything, you know. So um, one is just not questioning the Lord and staying confident in what like you see and what you hear from him, yeah, and trusting him and like trust the Holy Spirit and other people, you know. And another big thing for me, and that was, and I've said it to you before, it's like the Lord's gonna honor me for honoring you at the end of the day. Like, you are the head of our home, you are our leader, and you are the leader, and I mean you still are the leader of the shepherd's stand just looks different now, and it's like I can submit things to you, but at the end of the day, it's between you and the Lord, like well, ultimately gets decisions to be made, what actions are to be taken, and you would advise me just to pray about it, and that's what I did, and I always said, and I still say it's like even if you disagree with me or don't, you know, see or hear the same things, like uh if I honor you, like the Lord's still gonna like that's right, honor me. Like, and that I don't have to like fuck up and like try to like rise, you know, above you or against you. It's like, no, like I trust him and I trust you, and I know that you hear and that it is if it is that big of a thing, like Holy Spirit will, you know, share you.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

He's always helped us in the big things. I think the like all big decisions, like I feel like I hear really well and we navigate really well together through some really big transitions. I always struggle when it comes to decisions with people because it's like I'm the person that's like, everybody come on in, you know, and you're like, wait a second, there's some stranger danger here that we should probably address, or I see some things that are probably not healthy and should be invited in this place. And I'm like, we can work, it'll be all right, we can work through it. And then, and then you have these moments like this where you go through and you're like, oh, I could have avoided that. And some and some of those decisions were again, we talked about this on the last episode when we got the building. Then you have all the expectations that come with now that we have a building, we're a church for a lot of people. Now that you're a building, you have a now that you have a building, you're a church. And so it's like, and then now that you're a church, then there's expectations of now we got to have leaders to lead these ministries. And so then I'm like, okay, we got to put people in this place. And you're like, we need to be careful here, we need to be careful here, and we need to process it. Was never like, oh, this person's terrible or whatever. It's like I see some things, and if we don't have conversations and we don't see this trend in the right direction, then like we're gonna end up with issues. We end up having those issues. That's life. And it's like, I always told you, even Jesus allowed um Judas to sit at his table. Yeah, and that's and that and yeah, and that's and that's true because one of the things that the Limleys said to us, and we're kind of jumping ahead here, and we'll come back in a second, but

Learning Love That Expects Nothing

SPEAKER_04 28:50

one of the most helpful things to me in that season was the Limley's voice. I mean, they were a major voice in our whole process and of healing, and and just they were there, they've always been there for us. But he was like, you know, Mark, because they had walked through some uh some of this prior to us walking through it with somebody that'd been with them for a really long time. And I just I remember Bobby grieving and processing and watching how he handled things, and I just thought he handled them so well. And one of the things he said to me was, you know, at the end of the day, what we find out is we do love people, but but maybe not love them the way Jesus actually loved them. And the Jesus kind of love is a love that expects nothing in return. And man, that statement right there made me not like Bobby in that moment because it was like it was calling out a depth in me where it's like, we have learned an honor culture in the church that goes, um, I love you until you dishonor me, or I will honor you until you give me a reason to dishonor you or to not honor you, or whatever. And so, like, I realized in my own world that there was this sense of um I'm investing in you and I love you, but I do expect a mutual return on that investment. I do think that's healthy relationship. Yes, but we're not talking about just healthy relationship, we're talking about kingdom leadership. And kingdom leadership says, even if you betray me, I still go to the cross for you. While we were yet sinners, Christ died. Like it's a love that expects nothing in return. And I realized in my grieving process, I'm like, How dare you? I let you do this and I did this, and I have my list of all the things. And I was like, and you couldn't. I remember my big statement to you was this I've walked this is like church at large. Yeah, it's not a small group of people. This is a statement about everybody I've led in the history of my ministry. I've walked with you through sin. And you couldn't walk with me through mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I mean, that's or whatever. That's an honest feeling.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Like, like if you thought I was in sin or if you thought I made a huge mistake, or or you know, my thought was, what if I did something for real? Like, oh my God, like you totally walked out of my life. I felt deserted, I felt betrayed, I felt like, was our relationship even real? Like, do you not remember? Like, and you create that list. And I know there are people watching this right now that they've they've gone through this too, yeah, and they still have the list where they're like, I've done all these things for these people, and then they just walk out of your life like you didn't even exist before. Those were real thoughts we were walking through.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

I'm just gonna piggyback off that because I mean, I wasn't even expecting to share this, but when you said that, I just I just remembered it as one of my encounters during that time was where I saw the Lord's hand come down with scissors.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

And I was like, what in the world is that? And later, like I just sat with him and he was like, You are gonna learn to love with no strings attached.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

And that's a hard lesson.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

And I honestly didn't even realize that I had that because for me, it wasn't even like I expected people to like do things for me or like to give me gifts. No, we were never, we never was like that. To me, it was just if we want to be loved that, and if like we're doing queen and ea, we're braiding our life together, like we're gonna have a mutual love and honor, respect, honest conversations, like you know, like I'm gonna be there for you. And it was more of just that type of like, I just and and that is still a string attached, you know. It's like I'm not, you know, and just looking back, like just thinking about like why I even like did all the things that I did, and it was like it was true love, yeah, you know, like and it was which makes it worse, yes. And it's just like but from here on out, like for like all that was good and right, but he's like, but now like no strings attached, like you're gonna love these people because it's true love, yeah, and it's got like it's the Lord's kind of love, Jesus love, regardless of it.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

But expects nothing in return. Yes. So like you betray me, if you desert me, then I'm just gonna be like, I was so thankful for our season together. I don't fully understand, but I release you and bless you and move moving on. Um because that list is keeping records of wrongs for sure in in a way, and it holds that person in captivity in your mind.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah, not them, they're gone. Yeah, I mean, but it hurts you. That's the thing about forgiveness, is I always say it's like it's your own prison that you're it's you know, it's yeah, it's for you.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Yeah, it's also for you.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

I think I want to say though, like, I'm so glad that you grieve the way you grieve. Like I've w I've watched you do this. You really go to the deepest, darkest part of that grief, and you bring it to the light of Jesus, and you say all the things that I would never say to the Lord. Like you're just so vulnerable. You know what I mean? Like, I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm saying, like, I'm too religious to say some of those things, and you're just like, He loves me and he can handle my honesty, so I'm gonna say it. So I um I watch you go through that, and I just want to tell you how proud I am of you for grieving that way and going there because then you were quick to bounce back and show up for me and the kids and just keep our home life in an amazing space. And so, like, we had to go through, you know, that grieving process didn't last long for you because you went there. Like, you were you went there with your anger, you went there with your frustrations, you went there um with the Lord, and then you were like, Okay, I I put all that at his feet. Now it's time to dry my eyes, wash my face, go back to living the life we're called to live. And I think you did that really beautifully.

Bringing Pain Into The Light

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Thank you. I was like, I literally was just thinking bringing things to the light before he even said that. Like that is really a key that I have learned through grief.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Um with losing my grandmother and with um the transition from the shepherd's tent to uh being our family and then our transition to mobile um is bringing it to the light. Like I have been again, I've been an inward processor and I had done that well, but for whatever reason, in this in that space, whenever I felt the darkest or tormenting grief, to me, that was a language. It's like sometimes grief is tormenting. And I was like, I have to bring this to Lola Light, because if I get to the point, like I like peace in my internal world in my garden, I like peace. And so if I feel sometimes I you know I can process things and like know that it's gonna be on the other, like I'm gonna get on the other side, but whenever it just lingers and it stays there or like keeps getting worse, I just I get to the point where I'm like, enough's enough. Like I'm done. Like this is not healthy. I think that there's a healthy grief. And I think for me personally, there's an I was getting to a space and with some things that it was an unhealthy grief for me.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

And I was like, Lord, like I cannot stay in this. Yeah, I do not want to stay in this space. So whatever I need to do, whatever conversations I need to have, like I need you to show me. Like if I just need to pray, I just will pray. If I need to take a walk, if I need to sit by myself, what does that look like? And most of the times it was me having a conversation with you. It was me having a conversation with Jesse. Uh, one space, it was me having a conversation with my sister Ariana. And with each one of those conversations, it was like another just more brightness, more light, more freedom, more healing. And so for me, like I would just say, even if you're listening and you feel like you've gotten to like an unhealthy space in grief, that it's like, okay, you can't come back to that peace in your internal world and in your garden. Like, ask the Holy Spirit, like, what can I do? What does let him lead you? Like, what to say, what conversations to have, what to do to help you to get back in your brightness. The most I mean, I know grief comes in waves, so not that you won't feel the things or sure process things, but it's like just let him lead you, you know, bring things to the light. That's what I'll say. Just live in the light.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yeah. I would say to one of the do it alone. Yeah, that's right. So let's just do this more of like a quick kind of like review to a pastor's wife that's watching this or somebody that's leading people and they're going through this right now. Like, what do you say to them? Like, what's the three, four things that you know, you're not giving them a formula, but you are giving them some guidepost or some direction here to go. These, whatever that looks like, do these things because it'll really help your heart.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

For me, is to stay grateful. I think, like, even after some people transition, like I still like thank them because we had beautiful memories together, like that. We sure did. Like, take away those moments.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

That love was real during that time.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

And it's like, thank you. Thank you. I think one thing that I learned is like for real, learn like some people are just seasonal, some people are forever. Some people are just for a time, and it's like, that's okay. Yeah, you know, that's okay for them, that's okay for us. And it's like, I truly appreciate for that time because we had a blast. Yeah, we did, we had fun, like we truly celebrated life so true to the fullest, and it was beautiful. And I know that that pleased the Lord, but for whatever reason, the Lord was like, now it's time for transition, it's time for something new. And I think that transition can be hard, it can be painful, it can be awkward, you know, like that's just the reality, and it can be beautiful, even good transition is hard. And like I would say, if you haven't experienced transition, then you're probably like stagnant in some way, you're probably not doing anything. It's like change is good, like it's growth, like the Lord wants us to grow and to change like a butterfly. It's like transition can be so good and beneficial all the way around. It's like he's gonna make something so good and so beautiful out of this, and it's like keeping that mindset. It's like, yes, one, stay good thankful. Umcourage yourself in the Lord 100%. And that's like prayer. That's like for me, like I do sometimes I'll speak him out, but a lot of times it's just me, like me mentally just like thinking, like, he's gonna work all this for my good. He's working all this for my good right now, he is gonna make something so beautiful out of this. Um, and he is with me and he is for me, and he has good things and good plans for my life. And one thing that I've always prayed is like I want to be in his perfect will. And so, what does that perfect will look like for today? You know, like every day that can look different, and it's like I want to live surrendered and yielded to him, you know, and all things.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

Um, I would say live in the light, be honest, like I would add to it, like honest conversations. Well, well, first of all, grieve all the way. Yes, feel all the things, feel all the things, it's real, it's you're going through it, it's hard, they're gone, they're not coming back.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

I'll say even show yourself grace, you know, and just because you think negative things and you feel negative feelings, maybe that you don't normally feel because I don't like those things.

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Yeah, be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

I don't think that it's wrong to think or to feel those things, but it's like don't stay there, don't meditate.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

You don't have to become that.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

No. And as like the word says, you extend grace and mercy, extend grace and mercy to people because we're all doing this life for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

They had to transition too.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

And like we're all doing life, and we're all learning, and that's one thing is like we're all learning, yeah. Grace for me, grace for you, grace for them, them, their kids, their kids.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Like, I mean, how many times do we have to deal with our kids going, why aren't those people around anymore? Or Eden asking for one of her friends, and you're like, they're you're not gonna see them, yeah, you know, uh, or whatever, you know, and trying to navigate through all that. Like you have to keep yourself encouraged, stay in gratitude. But also, you said something I want to hone in on this probably in a in a few minutes, but the honest conversations, and those begin with the Lord first. Secondly, they belong to you and your spouse.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yes, I say if you're married, you should be able to have those conversations with your spouse.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

And then thirdly, if you're able to have those conversations with the people, have them if the if they're willing to do it. Because um, and I'll talk more about this in my my process. So we'll we'll do like We'll shift over to mine here in a second. But I found that verse in Proverbs where it says the sign of true friendship is honest conversation. And so it's like, but so many times when we have problems with people or transition comes, automatically we just like cut people off and we never have closure. We never have honest conversations. And and like even though you and I may not walk together like the way we used to, you can at least hear me out and I can at least hear you out. And it's going to make us better walking into the next season. And um so I think all those things are important, but I definitely believe that you grieved well, loved well, and and helped transition our family faster into my healing process and making our kids feel like they had a more normal life because you did go there and grieve well.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

So which I think is what another main reasons for I transitioned to my bill like was for you to have a safe place for you to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

I couldn't do it here. I couldn't, I couldn't I looking back now, I'm like it was, and I'll explain this here in a second. So hold that thought. Like we had to move, and that was mostly because of me. Because you could live on this property, never see another soul in your life, uh, except to go to the grocery store and to Target, and you would be fine. Amazon delivers everything else, but as long as you can go to Target and Publix, you're good to go. And um, or we've got this new grocery store now that you're excited for, but like, and you would have been totally fine. I was not. So let's put a pause on this for just a

Partners Event And Funding The Mission

SPEAKER_04 45:49

second, okay? And let me talk to our our our um friends on the internet. So this is a good pause to let you know that we are hosting for the first time ever our first partners one-day event here in Covington. So we just signed the contract today of this recording, Courtyard Marriott, Covington, Georgia, right off the interstate, beautiful new hotel. It's got a pool, workout facility, everything there. We're going to spend a full day together. Three sessions, two meals. Um, if you're a partner of our ministry, it's absolutely free to come. The only thing that you have to do is purchase a ticket for the meals. So we've got some amazing catering coming in, and all you have to do is get your ticket for the meal. So I want to encourage you, go find the link below in the description of this video. Get signed up. We only have spots for 80 people. And so um, we've got some friends and family coming in. So, like, I'm I'm like, man, that's gonna fill up fast. So go get registered for that right now. Get your meal tickets. Also, in when you register for the event, we'll give you a link and a phone number where you can call or a link to book. They're giving us a very special discounted rate for the rooms. It's gonna be awesome, guys. I'm telling you, I'm praying about those three sessions. I think they're gonna be super powerful. I'm gonna be sharing with you a lot of the things that Holy Spirit's teaching me on mind renewal and relationship with Holy Spirit. I think it's gonna be good. And to have some time where you get to know Dusty and I and meet our family, it's gonna be awesome. So, full day together, gonna be amazing here in Covington. So I just invite you to get registered for that and to encourage you guys to stand with us as partners because we are going full-time in this media ministry. And so, like right now, we're at this place where we're rebuilding. We're rebuilding the ministry, we're rebuilding our business, and um, and we're in this really cool place, but we also understand with the business relaunching, we need partners to stand with us to help this media thing come to pass. So, that being said, I want to encourage you to sign up and become a partner. When you do, you're supporting these conversations, you're supporting me when I preach and when I release content on the internet. You are supporting us to for me to write the books like that the Holy Spirit's put on my heart, and I'm writing one right now on the Holy Spirit that I think is going to be life-changing. Destiny says her her favorite things to hear me teach on is the Holy Spirit. And so I'm finally setting down and writing this book that's really been in my heart for probably eight years, and now it's starting to come to fruition. So, like when you partner with us, you're giving us the grace and the space to do the media, to write the books, to travel and do ministry. And there are things that we're doing as a ministry that a lot of people don't even know what we do. And we keep it private because it's very unique, it's very special. And the Lord told us, He said, I'm gonna give you relationships with very influential people. Um, and you'll always have that as long as you don't make it public or make it a thing. Every time that ministers connect with like influential people, they want to flaunt it, put it on social media, do the whole thing. Um, we want to be a safe place where we can treat them as the sons and daughters that they are. So I'd love to tell you those stories. We can't, but they're special to the Lord. You just have, I just trust that you hear, Holy Spirit, to support us, help us do this. We never want to be a burden on the churches that we go to or the ministry that we do. And we can only do these things with part with partners that stand with us and give. And so we're we're we are on our way to being fully funded in the ministry that we've been called to do, but there's more things that we want to do. There's more media things that we want to invest in. There's other cameras and things that we're doing with the studio. Like it's always evolving, it's always growing. But I believe these conversations are life-changing. The messages, the things that we're doing on social are life-changing. The books that we release are life-changing, and we can only do it through partners like you. So I want to invite you to become a partner. And when you do, you can come be with us for a whole day in Covington. That's our first event that we're doing since we've been back. And um, we want to invite

Bitterness, Health, And Final Encouragement

SPEAKER_04 50:24

you to come and join us on the journey. It's gonna be a lot of fun. It's gonna be a lot of fun. All right. That was a good little break to talk about something exciting before we do the second half of this, which is kind of talking about me and how I processed this. Um, you went all the way in, you grieved, you went there, and I'm over here going, I ain't got time to grieve. You're you're doing it, so I'm gonna let you grieve, I'm gonna let you pray, I'm gonna let you do all that stuff, and then I'm going to figure some stuff out. And you're right, like I think the biggest reason why we had to move to Mobile is because as long as I was here, I would have never gone there to do it and to to grieve and to process. I would have just stayed in the grind, I would have stayed frustrated. I mean, I remember waking up one night and the Lord said, if you don't deal with this stuff, you're gonna be bitter. And then you're gonna get sick. Like I could just feel it. I remember just waking up 3 30 in the morning, heart racing, and the Lord was like, You're bitter, you're getting bitter. And if you don't if you if you don't stop, you're gonna get into bitter, like the root of bitterness, and it's not gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Let's just take a second and talk about that because I think that's huge. I think that's a bigger statement than what you realize, or even people like listening realize it's like when you feel those things and you meditate on those things, like you become those things, and like that gets in your body. And it's like a lot of times sickness in people's bodies comes from stuffing, it comes from not forgiving and not healing. And it's like if you're that person, I just super encourage you, like just pray for freedom and boldness and bravery to like forgive and to process those things and not to stuff, and just for the love of Christ to just become one new even now, like while you're watching, and for you to be delivered of those things, because he wants you to live fully alive and to feel good internally and in your physical body.