God Used A Move To Heal Us

Watching people move on without you can feel like a fresh betrayal every day, even when you still love them. We sit down at the table and tell the real story behind a transition that took us to Mobile, forced us to stop performing strength, and finally made room for grief we had been stuffing for years as leaders. If you’ve ever wondered why a change you believed God led still hurt this much, you’ll feel seen here.

We talk about the moment we knew we were supposed to move, how confirmation came, and why being away from familiar faces mattered for healing. From there, we get painfully practical about guarding your heart, including why we unfollowed people on social media during the hardest stretch. We unpack the false sense of connection that platforms create, the anger that rises when relationships are one-sided, and how easy it is to start villainising yourself just to make the story make sense.

One of the biggest takeaways is learning the difference between peacekeeping and peacemaking. We believe kingdom relationships are built on truth, humility, and courage, but we also learned you cannot force closure, reconciliation, or maturity. Sometimes God is protecting you from chasing conversations that cannot heal what He wants to heal at the root, including old wounds that shaped how you lead, love, and look for acceptance.

We also share what we’re building now, why the Shepherd’s Tent is returning to its original intent, and how you can connect with us through our upcoming partners gathering in Covington. If this encouraged you, subscribe, share it with a leader who needs language for their season, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations.

Transcript

Opening And A Coming Transition

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Christ is light. I am light. I mean, I didn't know it, but looking back now, I'm like, I for sure had to go to Mobile because I couldn't have done it here. I was running into people because I'm still gonna live my life if I'm here. So I'm running into people, and every time I would, it was like a dagger to the heart. Like what I could have done different, what we should have done with the church, and should we still be doing this? And did I drop the ball? Did I miss it? You know, whatever. And like all the things. And so I remember I was like, we just need to go to mobile and let's spend a week down there. And really, it was we're feeling things, we don't fully know what it is, but like we know transitions coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

After transitions, so when we start feeling we know our radar comes to our radar was up.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Yeah, but every time we get in that place too, we wait for the word of the Lord to come to us, and the word of the Lord started coming to us. Like it's it's like many times I think about it like, yes, we are risk takers, like we will do whatever God says, but God has also, I think, because of the way that we lean into Him, God doesn't allow us to miss those moments because we really are leaning in. And so, like, I remember in that season, God's like, go to Charleston, spend time with Bobby and Jesse. We go there, and one of the girls gives us a prophetic word spot on that gave us the next piece. And like that kind of stuff just happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

We went to like what we're hearing and feeling is right, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:56

So we went to Mobile and we were like, okay, let's go for a week, let's just be, let's try to meet with Apostle Damon and just see what he's sensing and feeling. And and that that was it. Like, maybe, maybe just do a week and we can reset because we were like, maybe God

Why Leaving Home Hurt So Much

SPEAKER_03 2:15

will send us to Charleston with the Limleys. Like, maybe God's gonna send us back to West Virginia, and I was really not leaning into that.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

You were like, I was like, You love your family, and I've been nieces and my nephews precious to my heart.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, so I was like, Well, and I would I became open to that, like I really was open, and there were Jimmy and Tina, like we could go help them, like love the people of the North Gate, or they call themselves the homestead of Ohio, they'll always be the North Gate to me. And um, you know, I feel about that the way our kids felt about the shepherd's tent. When I changed it to the homestead of Covington, they were like, Dad.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Elijah's like, no, it's not. No, that's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

It's the shepherd's tent. So Elijah, you're right, you were right. We're back here doing the shepherd's tent. So Elijah's our producer, he's our producer, he's it, he's making it happen. But um, yeah, so we go there, we spent the week, we had a great dinner with Damon and Tammy, and uh then end up having a meeting and talking a little bit more. And again, those were tough conversations. We're processing everything we were going through here, process some stuff with him, and we're just like, we don't really know what to do. So then Friday night comes, we go into service, we're about a song in, which a song at Mobile could be 50 minutes long, one song. Like we just sing it over and over and over again. So it's like, so we don't get that far in worship sets at all. Um, but in the middle of worship, I just could hear Damon's voice saying over and over again, I remember him telling the stories when Tammy and I didn't know what to do, we knew there was a place in mobile that we could come. And there's a father and a mother there that have a place that where we can be. And I kept hearing that. And I was like, man, I can't get away from this. And you were sitting down.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, I was sitting.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Which is not like you in worship, you're usually up and hair flying and all the things, but you were sitting down and just you had your eyes closed, and I was like, babe, I think I'm hearing something. You're like, whoa, what? And I'm like, this, and then you looked at me and you're like, I literally was hearing the same exact thing. And I just looked at her and I was like, oh my God, we're gonna move to Mobile. No, like when I tell you that Mobile was my least favorite place to live, I mean it with all my guts. I would have lived in Batesburg another 20 years than I would to live in Mobile. People are like, have you really went around and explored Mobile? And I was like, first of all, my dad is a retired police officer, which meant we watched cops every night. And that means every night Mobile was on the TV. I've seen Mobile. Okay. So just throwing that out there. But um I knew it was right. And so we looked at each other, and then I remember like sharing with Apostle, like, we really feel like we're supposed to move here for a season or a time, or maybe forever. Like we literally were like, and maybe it's forever.

Worship Confirmation To Move

SPEAKER_03 5:40

And it was just like, wow, we're doing this, and we kind of accepted like we're doing this, and so we end up staying longer and actually like looking, and what are we gonna do? And so we go back to Covington and we're like, we're doing this. And um, anyways, it all worked out. Damon was like, Okay, Mark, he was like, now that you all have made this decision, I want you to go talk to this person, this person, this person. And apparently everybody in Mobile knew we were moving there except for us. And um, which I'm thankful for.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Which people had had dreams. People had dreams in prayer.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

And so we got so the one thing that I love about Damon as my apostle and my spiritual father is that he's never tried to play God for for me. He's never tried to take that seat in my life, and he really is intentional about not putting his fingerprints on something that only God can. And so, like, he knew all these words, he knew all these dreams, but he was never gonna try to influence us to make that decision. So he literally said nothing to us until we said, we are gonna move. And he goes, Well, here's all the confirmation. And just like, go call this person, go talk to that person, have them share this. And it was just like everybody knew. So we were like, okay, and to the point that when we got back, a couple that didn't even know that we were really considering it, they were thinking about moving to Covington at that point. And I think God did something really cool with them too. Um, but they were like, hey, we just bought a house in Mobile, and you and I both felt we were to be there March 1st. Like we felt like Holy Spirit said March 1st, 2025, you need to be in Mobile. And we both agreed and both heard that. So that's what we did. And they were like, Yeah, our house actually opens up March first, or I think it closed in February, and then we can move in on March 1st, and y'all can stay there for a few months while you figure it out. Well, we were only there one week, and by the first week we made the connection that by the next month we were in our own place. And the Lord just like lined it all up. Yes. Okay, so that's all we need to talk about with that. It just all lined up.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

But when it when

Dreams, Counsel, And Open Doors

SPEAKER_03 8:05

we got there, that's when I had the opportunity to really start the grieving process because now we're gone. The house is on the market. We had taken everything that had a shepherd's tent logo on it to the dump. Like we were cleared out. Like it was all the only thing we kept was pictures and prophecies. Pictures of families that used to go or came and prophecies, they're still here in my office. Yeah. And um, you know, so it's like we were done. And I think that's when and and I had the business rolling at that point in time. It was covering our salary, it was, you know, it was taking care of us. And so now it's like, wow, I'm here. And I am what I realize about myself is I am a stuffer. So you were she always jumps ahead. She goes straight for the solution. She's like, you can talk about the problem all day. I've got the solutions, but um I'm a stuffer. So I just stuff it, stuff it, stuff it, and keep on rolling because we got to keep going. I've been a I've literally been a leader my entire adult life. I've never like I've always had to be the person. You just gotta keep going. Gotta keep the prayer meetings going, the services going, the responsibilities going.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Too from you being a pastor's child, too. Your parents probably had that too. I grew up in a ministry home. To where us, like, we did real life. Like we didn't have conversations about things, but and that was part of me having to grow in communication.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

But but I grew up in a home where others were put first.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah, I didn't have that same upbringing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

So, like when you grow up in a ministry culture, forget about how you feel, which is why I think the shepherd's tent is what it is, is the Lord's like helping us really create the language. It's like, no, the shepherd's tent, and I'll talk about this. Was one of the first words we got when we were in Mobile about uh so remind me to share that dream Damon had. But um, that's why I think that the language is coming to us so strongly that the shepherd's tent is for leaders to help them steward their interior world, that that um the garden within, we talk about tending the vineyard within. That's Song of Solomon chapter one. I think that's why that's so important because when you grow up in a ministry environment, you are the Shulamite that didn't tend your own vineyard because you're busy taking care of everybody else. And I was trained at that from a young age, and I saw that as like a benefit for me, which is like almost like a badge of honor. Badge of honor of like I'm taking care of everybody else, and screw how I feel because we got ministry to do, people's

Grief Finally Has Room

SPEAKER_03 10:55

lives to change, and people's ministry vineyards to take care of. And I was I was the poster child of Song of Solomon. I shouldn't say poster child. I I didn't look like the the damsel that the shulamite was, but in my own version, right? So um, but the heart of what she was going through is where I was, and so I'm a stuffer in the sense of like I'm always thinking about other people and how they feel and putting others first. And I thought I already passed that test when I left. Like I left Cleveland and I learned how to rest in Batesburg. And then I got to Covington, and then this whole Covington thing unfolds. And that's when I realized, yeah, you've learned a different pace, but you haven't really learned how to tend this. Like you slowed down enough to get out of the panic attacks and the anxiety and to take the religious, like God dealt with the religion and all of that in that first transition. This time was about like coming into something and becoming something, which means I've got to learn how to really renew this and steward this.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

And so I come to Mobile, I realized I didn't know how to do that. And so I'm like, I'm just hurt. And one of the first things that we both had to do in that transition was we had to unfollow a lot of people on social media, and people probably thought we were buttholes about it and we were mean, and how dare you, or whatever. And it's like you don't understand. Yeah, you have moved on with your life, and you're just doing everything that God's called you to do, and I'm in this place of like you got to walk away and do whatever you want to do. I'm left with a broken dream, things didn't work out the way that I thought it was, and I'm having to recreate my whole world. And I'm going, uh I can't watch you do that. It's it's

Stuffing Feelings In Ministry Culture

SPEAKER_03 13:05

and so one of the first things I learned in unfollowing people on social media is God had to show me, Mark, all your life you've given your heart, but Proverbs says you have to learn how to guard it. I did not know how to guard my heart. Anybody that's known me up until the past year, because I'm definitely different now, but prior to that, I give my heart to anybody. Just share my heart with anybody, a stranger, just share my heart with them and love on them and give them my heart. Tell them things that, you know, I probably cast more pearl before swine than I ever have, you know, like that's I that's just who I am. Like it just comes out of me. And that was one of the first things that the Lord, that's not the only thing he taught me about it, but that's the beginning phases of I'm gonna show you how to guard your heart. And that was you're gonna have to unfollow some people because it was legitimately hard for me to see them move on. It didn't matter. I of course I want them to succeed, of course I want them to be blessed. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it was just hard for me to watch them move on without me.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Because I loved them, I loved being part of their world. And so you're watching people celebrate things that we used to celebrate with, and you're watching their babies grow up with other people's babies that Eden would have been a part of, and you're just like, I can't look. It's not that I hate you. No, it's not that I don't love you.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

It's that it hurts your heart.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

I can't look at this right now. And so I feel like that's something that I want to say to people is when you begin to grieve correctly, one of the first things that the Lord will show you to do is guard your heart.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Is you, you know, you're gonna have to unfollow them even if you if they misunderstand what you did.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

For sure. I'll say, even in that, like I felt like the Lord, like Holy Spirit was like, I'd like kind of wanted to do this before, like just because. But the Lord was like, no, like now's the time. Like I want you to unfollow. And I literally did. I went through and like unfollowed everybody, and I was like, okay, well, what is this? And it's like for a time of my life, the Holy Spirit was like, I want you to like share your life, like and with people and like through social media, and he was like, We're pausing with that. And like and even in that, like my heart posture is like, I want real relationships. Like, if people like for me, social media, like

Unfollowing To Guard The Heart

SPEAKER_00 15:50

yes, it is a way of there's a measure of connection, but I'm like, the people who truly know me, they have my phone number, they're still gonna know what's going on in my life. You got my address, pictures, like I'll text you pictures, like those types of things, and it's like, no, like let the real relationships arise, even like who truly cares about me and my family and my babies.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

But see, that's the second layer, which is okay, now now I'm learning I've got to guard my heart. But then when I start guarding my heart, then that's when I realize the one-sided relationships I'd been in. And that for me is when anger started to come, which was like, I know how I showed up for you, I know what we walked through together, and now here I am needing that from you, and you're not here. And that's and and so you had already grieved that, and you were just kind of like at one point I was like frustrated with you because I was like, Yeah, well, I'm just now feeling it. Thank you very much. You're like, Yeah, I I told you that. Like, I yeah, I've already seen that. Yeah, that's true. I know it. I never went there, so now I'm going there a season after you had already gone there, and you're like, Yeah, duh, that I knew that that's been there the whole time. Like they they they don't, you know, you would say things like they don't care about you, they are not going to show up for you. And and so it was just like, wow, like I know, like this was truly I'm your pastor. And I told you this in that season. I said, that's when two statements came forth. It was the the statement came out of my mouth one night, and I was like in tears, and I was like almost yelling. I was like, I've walked with these people through hell, through sin, some people through sin. And now they've got all these things that they think that I said or did and or done, and and now they're uh they're done with me, and you can't even walk with me.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

They're having an honest conversation.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

It like even to call me and just talk it out. We literally had for most of the relationships that got stripped in that season, no real conversations at all.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

No closure.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Why did we leave? Why did they transition? Why did decide to move on? And so it was like, whoo, man, I can't even imagine what Jesus felt like in the Garden of Gethsemane. I feel like mine was just like a drop in the bucket of what he felt in Gethsemane because they he was truly forsaken and put on the chopping block. And but I felt like I felt a measure of that agony because it's like I know my heart. And whatever mistakes I made, I know I didn't do it on purpose. No maliciousness, never malicious. Like I'm doing the best I know to do. And the one thing I can say above all things is I knew I loved those people. Even if there was some of that, like I just want some that same love in return, it still was a real love for me. And so, like, I that's when the ang, so like, okay, I'm guarding my heart, Lord. But then as I guard my heart and I feel

One-Sided Relationships And Anger

SPEAKER_03 19:20

the how deeply disconnected I am now from those people. Cause as long as you have social media, you and you can watch what people do, you still kind of feel it hurts to see it, but you still kind of feel connected.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

It's like a false sense of connection. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

And so now that you don't have that, then you're like it's been a while and you never thought to call me. Like you've never checked on me. And it was just like, and so the real like realization that these relationships weren't what I thought they were was devastating for me. And so I did not deal with anger most. I wouldn't, if you'd asked me a year ago if I would or 15 months ago, if I dealt with anger, I was like, no, I don't have any anger issues. But I would say it was in there, like it started coming out of me, uh, just a real anger, because I realized like I was still I was becoming a victim of a ministry world that I thought I'd got away from and it was still there. And I was still half now I'm, you know, 37 at the time, 38, and I'm walking through things I shouldn't have to be walking through at this time in my life, is how I felt. And um again, you were very blunt with me at times, but also gracious at the same time. You were honest and gracious of like, yeah, babe, that's how it really is. And and this is where you got honest with me was not now I'm a stuffer, but I'm equally as a stuffer as I am a fixer. And I'm like, no, like yeah, the relationship is obviously off, but there's no reason that it has to end like this. There's no reason why we can't be friends. Like, you don't have to come to my church and be a part of my ministry to be a part of my life. I didn't say yes to you. I've never I didn't say yes to you because you joined our church. I said yes to you because you and and so like and y you know your heart that way, which makes it worse because it that you're like, I didn't choose you to do life with you because you chose the thing. Mm-hmm. This was about me and you, not the shepherd's tent. And I was just like, man. And so anyway. Like you go through through that um time of just going, okay, I can't let this end that way. And so I immediately am like, I start texting and I'm like, I love you, and let's let's talk and let's walk through this. And if I hurt you or I offended you in any way, it was like, and then in my mind, I start like villainizing myself, and I'm trying to find all the bad things that I did to justify why they would feel this way. And like I try to make myself the villain, try to be like, well, maybe I just don't measure up, maybe I'm just not a great pastor, maybe maybe I did drop the ball in this way, or I maybe, you know, and you just start going through that, and you're like, okay, so then you're you start apologizing and over-apologizing and sending text, and and you are finally like they don't care, they're not responding because they don't want you a part of their life. They're like they're done, and you gotta accept that. And I'm like, no. And I think what broke my heart, and and listen to me, I think there's some leaders that need to hear this. I think that we think everybody thinks like us, and people heal different, and people handle

Peacemakers Versus Peacekeepers

SPEAKER_03 23:35

transition different, and you've got to give them space to do it too. But I think something that really frustrated me in that season was I can remember saying to you, I thought we were supposed to be peacemakers. And so, like, I thought we were supposed to do Matthew 18. So then, so now you're angry because of Jesus' words. Not just your own words. Now you're angry at Jesus' words because you're like, Well, if we were true Jesus people, then we would have had these conversations. We would sit at the table together, and then if we couldn't work it out, you know, we would like Paul said, do everything that you can to make peace with all mankind and to live in peace with one another and to continually reach to people and get no response. That's when the Lord said to me, Mark, you got to learn the difference between people that are peacemakers and people that are peacekeepers. And man, I've learned a lot in this season, but this one was a really hard lesson to learn because I feel like there's a lot of people out there that have that have gone through transition, but they have followed worldly psychology instead of kingdom psychology, and they've become principles and kingdom principles, which is, and that's what I mean by kingdom psychology is the principles of Jesus, where it's like peacemakers are peacekeepers are people who are like the way we keep peace is just to keep distance and not deal with anything, and then I'm not gonna deal with this, but I'm gonna go over here and fix work on me. And so this is the self-help, focus on me, get me fixed. And and I and there's some aspect of that because I've had to go through that. But that's not how that's not the process, like the kingdom process is peacemaking, which is you go with the peace of Christ that surpasses your understanding, and you go into the middle of the chaos to help make peace. So I was willing to go into the fray, I was willing to go into the chaos and go, whatever I did, whatever you think I did, I'll own it, ask for forgiveness, and let's have a conversation so we can move on. Because I'm like sitting here going, why? It doesn't have to be this way. You would have thought I murdered somebody, you would have thought I did something crazy. Like, why are we doing this this way? That's how I felt in that moment. And I just remember reading those words and just going, Oh, these people think that peacemaking is just ignore the issue. Friend, if you ignore the issue, it doesn't fix, it doesn't do you any good, doesn't do the other person any good. Um, there's a reason Jesus said, Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. The children of God are the peacemakers, and you're willing to do the Matthew 18 and go to the person that you have an offense with.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

And if you truly love somebody, you're gonna have the honest conversation.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

I told, I told you in that season, I was like, uh, you know, maybe the spiritual father and pastor title or whatever makes it weird for people. But I was like, my God, if this is what it means to be a spiritual father, I don't ever want to be one again. I don't ever want to be a pastor again because I'd rather just be treated like a brother. Because I it's so funny when you you watch this. I've been in the ministry now over 20 years, which is crazy. I turned 40 this August. I've been in the ministry for 20 years. Going on 21. And really, I've been in the ministry for 40 years. I grew up in it. It's my 40th year of ministry.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

You were pointing.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

I was born in it. Oh man, I didn't know what I was doing for half of them, but I probably don't even now. But um, but my point is I've been in this thing for a while. And I think what's heartbreaking too is that you sit here and you watch people reject you and you know your heart towards them. And then strangely enough, they end up connecting with people that tried to destroy them in previous seasons. Like these alliances come together where you're like, as a pastor, you're like, I've walked with all of you. I know how all of you all feel about yourself and each other, and now all of a sudden you're the crew and we get the boot. That was hard to watch too. And I'm going, and you could forgive them and you could get over the things you knew they did to you, and and then we make a mistake in your eyes and don't handle things the way you think we should, and now we're trash on the side of the road, like and that's when I was like, and you were like, you have to stop. And I was like, man, and you can speak into this. That was very hard for me. You'd be like, Are you trying to reach out to them again? Are you trying to send a message again? Are you, you know, and finally I was like, you're right. I mean, if they wanted that, they would ask for it. And I had to let that go. Because at the end of the day, maybe they don't even really have a problem with me. Maybe they're dealing with some stuff just like I was that needed to be healed in me. Because what I found out at the end of, and we'll fast forward to this because we can always pull lessons from that season again. But I want to fast forward to the like last 90 days of Mobile. Okay. What I realized in all of that was those people, most of them probably never meant to hurt me or harm me. They were handling transitions the only way they knew how, the best they could. I think for me, it was realizing that I had put relationships in a seat in my heart that only God could sit in and had expectations of people that um didn't have the Jesus kind of love attached to it, where I was truly okay with not getting anything back. I wasn't. That's why when Bobby said that, I was like, no, I don't want to hear that because it's like we have a culture of honor, it should reciprocate. They should be showing up for me just the way I showed up for them. And Bobby's like, no, that's not the Jesus kind of love because you want to justify yourself and you want to create the list and you want to prove why they're wrong and you're right. And at the end of the day, I'll just say this because we could go on and on and on.

Grief Giving Way To Love

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Eventually, our grief gave way to love. And I think that we have learned to love in a way these past 15 months to love the like to allow the Lord to love us a certain way, to love the Lord a certain way, to love each other in a deeper way. Like we really grew in that season. Um I think that this season made us more like love than any other season in our life. And I now have a better opportunity, a better more grace to be able to handle when the love doesn't reciprocate the way that I want it to, because ultimately my affirmations, my security, my peace, my joy doesn't get to be left in the hands of people. It's him. And I I think about John chapter two, I think it's John two, and and maybe I can get into this, maybe I can't. Um because I don't want to spend time just you all going, when's he gonna read this verse? But it talks about Jesus not giving his heart to people because he knew how fickle they were. And I think the biggest thing I could say to leaders watching us today is grieve well, guard your heart well, and give the Jesus kind of way your heart to people, which means I'm giving this to you as a gift, expecting nothing in return. And if you can do those three things, you will never become the victim of another person's actions. You'll never become a victim to their opinions. And ultimately, what this has led to is me being able to be more secure in him, more trust in him, and to love myself better and to be authentic. I I think I can look back on the last 15 months and go, he has delivered me from the fear of man.

Partner Event Invitation And Mission

SPEAKER_03 33:18

This is a good pause to let you know that we are hosting for the first time ever. Oh, yeah, our first partners one-day event here in Covington. So we just signed the contract today of this recording, Courtyard Marriott, Covington, Georgia, right off the interstate, beautiful new hotel. It's got a pool, workout facility, everything there. We're going to spend a full day together. Three sessions, two meals. Um, if you're a partner of our ministry, it's absolutely free to come. The only thing that you have to do is purchase a ticket for the mills. So we've got some amazing catering coming in, and all you have to do is get your ticket for the meal. So I want to encourage you, go find the link below in the description of this video. Get signed up. We only have spots for 80 people. And so um, we've got some friends and family coming in. So, like, I'm I'm like, man, that's gonna fill up fast. So go get registered for that right now. Get your meal tickets. Also, in when you register for the event, we'll give you a link and a phone number where you can call or a link to book. They're giving us a very special discounted rate for the rooms. It's gonna be awesome, guys. I'm telling you, I'm praying about those three sessions. I think they're gonna be super powerful. I'm gonna be sharing with you a lot of the things that Holy Spirit's teaching me on mind renewal and relationship with the Holy Spirit. I think it's gonna be good. And to have some time where you get to know Desi and I and meet our family, it's gonna be awesome. So, full day together is gonna be amazing here in Covington. So I just invite you to get registered for that and to encourage you guys to stand with us as partners because we are going full-time in this media ministry. And so, like right now, we're at this place where we're rebuilding. We're rebuilding the ministry, we're rebuilding our business, and um, and we're in this really cool place, but we also understand with the business relaunching, we need partners to stand with us to help this media thing come to pass. So, that being said, I want to encourage you to sign up and become a partner. When you do, you're supporting these conversations, you're supporting me when I preach and when I release content on the internet. You are supporting us to for me to write the books like that the Holy Spirit's put on my heart. And I'm writing one right now on the Holy Spirit that I think is going to be life-changing. Destiny says her her favorite things to hear me teach on is the Holy Spirit. And so I'm finally setting down and writing this book that's really been in my heart for probably eight years, and now it's starting to come to fruition. So, like when you partner with us, you're giving us the grace and the space to do the media, to write the books, to travel and do ministry. And there are things that we're doing as a ministry that a lot of people don't even know what we do. And we keep it private because it's very unique, it's very special. And the Lord told us, He said, I'm gonna give you relationships with very influential people. Um, and you'll always have that as long as you don't make it public or make it a thing. Every time that ministers connect with like influential people, they want to flaunt it, put it on social media, do the whole thing. Um, we want to be a safe place where we can treat them as the sons and daughters that they are. So I'd love to tell you those stories. We can't, but they're special to the Lord. You just have, I just trust that you hear, Holy Spirit, to support us, help us do this. We never want to be a burden on the churches that we go to or the ministry that we do. And we can only do these things with part with partners that stand with us and give. And so we're, we're, we are on our way to being fully funded in the ministry that we've been called to do, but there's more things that we want to do. There's more media things that we want to invest in. There's other cameras and things that we're doing with the studio. Like it's always evolving, it's always growing. But I believe these conversations are life-changing. The messages, the things that we're doing on social are life-changing. The books that we release are life-changing, and we can only do it through partners like you. So I want to invite you to become a partner. And when you do, you can come be with us for a whole day in Covington. That's our first event that we're doing since we've been back. And um, we want to invite you to come and join us on the journey. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

It's gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

You can't hurt me if he's the one that sits on the seat of my heart that way.

Living To Please God Alone

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Like, because I realized in those 15 months, like there was some insecurities there. It was like I did things for people because I wanted to be accepted. I lived a certain way. I I wanted to be the funny guy again because I I wanted to be accepted by so many people. And it's like I wanted to be accepted more than I wanted to be like to live in the fear of him, which is why when I would feel certain things, I would shut that down and go, no, no, no, I don't want to do the spiritual father thing. I want to do the hangout thing, or I don't want to try to be God's man of power for the hour. You know, you would hear all those things in your head and you're like, no, I'm never gonna shut those things off again. I'm never gonna dial down who I am as a spirit man to make people feel comfortable. I'm never gonna lower the standard again. I'm never gonna lose my fire again. I'm not gonna change who I am to please you or to make you feel comfortable. It's like, if my life blesses you, praise God. If my life offends you, praise God. If I'm too bright for you, if I'm if I toxic positivity, whatever the heck that is, I'll take toxic positivity over toxic negativity, yeah. But like whatever. I want to bless you. I want to have great relationships with you, but I'm living to please him. And if I'm gonna have coin in I now, it's gonna be because other people around me say, I'm gonna live my life to please him. Yes. And it's gonna be a true fellowship that comes through union in Christ, a shared life in Christ. And so, like, man, the Lord healed again, we'll talk about this in another episode. He healed my childhood through this. He uncovered some things from my childhood through this. He got to the root of some things and healed things. And now I realize this is what I meant by what I was saying a minute ago. There's some things getting healed

Healing Roots You Cannot Negotiate

SPEAKER_03 40:05

that got healed in me from this Covington transition, not because those people made things right or because I got to make right things right with those people. It's because I would have never had those problems had that eight-year-old little boy got healed back then. And so some of you are watching and you're thinking, if I could just fix it, if I could just get that person to sit down with me, if I could just, and maybe God's restricting you from having those conversations because you have put people in a place where you think if you could fix it or they could fix it, it'd be all right. And God's saying, no, these problems exist because you've not allowed me to come in and heal you in those places. And so God literally stripped, I would summarize it this way He stripped all of those relationships from us, cut the vine to say, I'm not gonna let you be God to them, and I'm not gonna let them be God to you. I'm gonna be God. And now I look at people that did transition and I go, that's exactly what they should be doing. Like, like I'm watching people move back home and I go, that's exactly what they they walked with us because they were familiar with us and it felt familiar to them, and there was comfort in that. But they actually needed to go back home. They actually needed to be with their family, they actually needed to move on, and they did they wouldn't do it as long as you and I were doing our thing. And I look now and I'm like, you not only healed me, you not only helped us, but you helped them. And he worked all things for the good.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

The example, the analogy, the imagery of like a plant. It's like you need to be in this until you grow this much, and then you need to be here.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

And it's like some people outgrew us. Yeah, and that's great.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Like I, but I have the joy now of going, but I played my part, and I know there are better people on the other side of it, no matter how they feel about me. Like I was able to have a conversation this week, and the person looked at me and said, You know, I know things are different now, but I'm really thankful for the season that we walk together. And I'm like, Yes, that's it. Yes, that's it. And I was listening to um a little clip that came up on my Instagram today by Travis Green, he pastors in South Carolina, one of my favorite gospel singers. Um, and he said, you know, he met Kirk Franklin for the first time, and because he was uh nominated for Stellar Award, Travis Green was. And so he ends up running into Kirk Franklin while they were there for the awards. And he's like, Man, God's gonna really use you, you know, God's gonna do things for you. And and he, but he looked at Travis and he said, But you're gonna have to travel light. And Travis was like, I don't really know what that means. And then he realized later on, like, you can't take everything with you into new season. And and he used the illustration of a tree. And he's like, the reason why trees shed their leaves in winter is because they've got to preserve their energy to stay alive until the blooming season comes again. And there are some people in your life that are a part of the tree, and there's some people that are branches on that tree, and then there's some people that they're just a leaf on your tree for a season, and you have to be okay when God sheds you of those leaves. And I just want everybody to know like, especially if you're a leader watching this and you're going through this, God's going to do something amazing. In you through it. Yes. God's going to heal you in it. And you're going to want to fix it. And you're going to want to make everything right. And you're going to want to chase people down and to have peace. And God's going to go, no, if you'll just leave them alone, I'll be their good shepherd. I'll be their father.

Travel Light In New Seasons

SPEAKER_03 44:20

I'll be God. Maybe it's a sign to you. He wants to deal with you. He wants to heal you. And follow the example of my wife. Like, grieve well. Be thankful. Have gratitude. Celebrate the season that you did have. If you're angry, go all the way in on that anger. If you're frustrated, go all like feel all the things so that he can heal all the things. And um to just let us be an example. Like, we're 15 months past leaving, and now we're back in Covington. And we're back getting original intent for what God sent us here. Because one of the first things Damon said to us when we moved to Mobile was he heard the audible voice of God say to him, I sent Mark and Destiny to that city to raise up the shepherd's tent. And it was turned into the sheep's tent. And I had a year to set with that. And now we're back. And God's going, I'm going to raise up the shepherd's tent. And it's not going to look like what you made it. You, I let you do what you felt like you wanted to do. Now I'm going to send you back and we're going to get the original intent, which is God didn't want us doing a church the way church has been. He wanted us to be for leaders. So that's what this podcast is about. That's what her and I are going to set at this table and talk about. We're talking to leaders. We're talking to people that you are navigating leadership. You're navigating a new wineskin of the church. You're navigating the this gospel. We're inheriting, like we are in another reformation moment and you're being changed and transformed. And you need some people in your life who are willing to be transparent and vulnerable and look you in the face and go, we may just be at one step or two steps ahead of you in the journey, but let our lives testify to you that He works it all for good. You're going to be better on the other side for it. And um, and you're going to be able to love again, trust again, believe again, and do things again. You're going to be able to discern things quicker. You're going to learn from your mistakes. You're going to start listening to the Holy Spirit, who is your wife. And so I just want to say to you, thank you for walking with me through all this. I know you do. It's an honor. I know you do.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

It's all going to be worth it. Yeah, it is. We've um I was gonna share this. I just keep hearing the little phrase, let them. I know somebody says that it might be a quote or something. Oh, it's Mel Robbins.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Remember when I read that book? It's one of the first books I read when we got to mobility.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Just like, just let them, just let them but you be the kingdom person that you know that you're supposed to be. Like you be kind, you be love, and you take the high road, and you just shine bright, you know, even when it's hard, you know, whatever light you have, you know, let it shine. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

That's good. But I mean, that was literally one of the first books I read when we moved to Mobile was let let them. And Mel Robbins, um, she's she's funny, she's quirky and she's fiery. I could I want to meet her one day because she's like a fireball. I don't know if she's a believer or not. Um, but that book was so helpful because she was like, whatever they're doing, let them.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Like you can't control other people, like you only have control over yourself and the way that you think and the way that you respond. And it's like, ask Holy Spirit to help you. Like, you let them, but you let Holy Spirit in you like become and to be the kingdom person that you're supposed to be. Um, which makes me think of Tim wanted to share this, is like even in that time and space, people would come and like be like, Well, you know, this person's saying this, or this person feels a certain way. And it's like that feeling's not mutual, you know. It's like you can't control other people or their thoughts to what they're telling other people, but it's like my response

Returning To The Shepherd's Tent

SPEAKER_00 48:45

would be, well, the feeling's not mutual because I love that person unconditionally, and I think that they're a beautiful person. And it's like, that was true. That's not me being fake. And people were like, uh, they wanted us to like respond differently, like to feed into it or to say something that's like, no, like just because someone else thinks or says that, like, I love them. That was real, it is real.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah, I remember somebody like coming to Mobile, and we were walking to a prayer meeting, and they like wanted to confront me about something. And and I'm not when I say confront, um, they're not like they weren't like loud or boisterous or whatever, but they were like there, they had somebody they were connected to that were offended by how we left. And it was just like, or or some, I don't even really remember. And it was like, and I just told the person, hey, look, I love them. And anytime they want to have a conversation with me, I'm here and and willing and open. And if they think we handled something wrong or we didn't handle them correctly in the transition, then I encourage you to tell them, come talk to us. We love, we still love them, we want to be a part of their life. And maybe what you don't know is we've already reached out to them and tried to have those conversations. Because again, I can truly say this before the Lord. Um like transitions just are hard. And when you're the person who's making this decisions that cause people to transition, um some people will understand and be like, hey, I get it. Uh, because we've had those people too. They're like, Mark, Destiny, do what you feel God's called you to do. We love you, respect that, and we're forever changed by the relationship we've had. But then we've had other people that are like, we went from being spiritual father, spiritual mother, you're the greatest thing that happened to me, to they've we were their villain in their story. And we're going, how did that happen? And I think when we get in transition, we got to make sense of things. And so if you have to villainize somebody, if you have to make yourself feel a certain way, and maybe we did things that would help them come to that conclusion. Because we're not like bury your head in the sand, like we we confront things, we're transparent, we're vulnerable, we talk about stuff, and it's like if you'll let us, we will. And and I think that um some people everybody says they want a spiritual father until they get one. Everybody says that they want accountability until they get it.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

I would say that people say that they want to be in kingdom family, yeah, even and then or want to do life together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

When it's more than just going to church with people and it requires you to sit down and have the hard conversations and have then that's when you find out if people really want that expression. I'm not mad at people that didn't want it.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

No, and it's okay to want something different.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

It's exactly. We said that on the last podcast.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I mean, we said all the time like it's okay to want something different. Like you be obedient, you do what's right for you.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

We if there's anything on this conversation about it with us because our hearts matter too, because we've walked with you or have with your leader.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

We if you're that person, have an honest conversation.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

We literally we what I remember telling people is we've literally spent most of our ministry telling you to be obedient and follow every whisper from Holy Spirit. And sometimes that whisper is going to lead you somewhere else other than us. And we always said, all we ask is that you sit down with us and share with what with us what Holy Spirit's saying and let us bless you and send you into that season. And we have peace and comfort to know God is on the move and He's sending you. Never we never wanted that so we could talk people out of it. We just for our own heart to go, I want to know what God's saying, what God's doing, because most people leave and you think, do I do something wrong?

SPEAKER_00 52:46

You know, all the things leaves lots of question marks. And I think there's sometimes it's nothing and sometimes it is something, but it's like at least have the conversation. So there aren't just room for a lot of assumptions.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

I think there's I think relationships and koinania is gonna be a big part of what we talk about. I think relationship and koinanea and a lot of these things is gonna be a lot of what we talk about at the table because I'll be honest with you, I've learned through all of this, and not just through this past transition, but others.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

And I'm not perfect in it either. I'm still learning and growing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

We we have we've had to be healed of father wounds, we've had to be healed of broken families, we've had to be healed of of relationships that we thought were gonna look one way. And and so, like, I love what you said earlier. Like, this is our first time doing this, first time living life. First time doing life, and and so like um, I feel like you just have to be really kind to yourself and and and graceful to yourself and to others because I've I'm learning we're not very good at relationships, like as a generation, and it goes back to fatherlessness, it goes back to in America, everybody tries to act like they've got all together and they're in at home, their worlds are falling apart, and we've learned how to put a mask on. And so, like, we're very we've learned to be very good looking, dysfunctional people. We look great on the outside, inside it's dysfunctional, and we get to moments of transition or offense or rejection, like all these things that can happen in relationship, and we suck at being peacemakers, we suck at doing things the right way. And I think the gospel that we're receiving now is no longer giving us an excuse to stay in that dysfunction. And so I think that's why you and I are going, we're coming back to the family table, we're gonna talk about these things, we're gonna talk about relationship, we're gonna talk about rejection, bitterness, and we're gonna talk about it primarily to leaders because you're not only watching people

Healthy Leadership Starts At Home

SPEAKER_03 55:10

go through it and you're trying to lead people through it, but you're growing too. You're learning how to have healthy relationships and honest conversations, and come out of dysfunctional ministry paradigms that we learned in church growing up to go, hey, look, man, you can't lead people unless your interior world's right. You can't lead the church if you can't lead your home, you know. And it's like, what profit a man to gain the whole world in his ministry and lose his own family?

SPEAKER_00 55:40

And that's one thing, even when you're traveling in the beginning years, first several years, really the first decade of our marriage. I, you know, I would always say, you know, you can travel and all these amazing things can happen, but if you don't love your family and if you don't invest here, like and you always did. So I never said that as like a correction. Sure. It was just like a love, like don't lose sight of this, you know, because I think you get in that and it's easy for someone to just get caught up in it, and it's like then this, you know, the spouse, the children, like become last in a sense. And it's like it doesn't work in the kingdom. You go do that, like what you're doing is great, but it's him, it's your relationship with the Lord, it's the relationship with me, and it's the relationship with our babies. Yep. And then everything else is just it overflows, it overflows, and like I feel like Holy Spirit allowed me to have that perspective even then. And I'm thankful. I mean, that was him. I can't take any credit for that, but it's just like it's been that is it.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

You've helped me a lot with those things and having that perspective because I grew up in a ministry home my whole life, and there were things that I thought that was normal that was really dysfunctional. And um, and so we're learning and growing, and that's why we're having these conversations. That's why we're wanting to pour into you all, is because we've been there. We've led very successful ministries. We've also crashed in the side of the mountain with certain things. And both of those successes and seeming, there's no failure in the kingdom, but seemingly failures. God uses all of it and weaves this beautiful picture. And we want to be a resource to you, yes, resource to your heart, your interior world, and just be a stepper to, we're not the experts by any means, but we are willing to be helpful guides and go, hey, we've been through this and we're learning some things from it. Hey, we're going through this and Holy Spirit's showing us some things about it, and we just want to be a resource to you in that.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

I just even want to say, like, I can't take even any credit with going through all that. It's like I leaned into the Holy Spirit, I lean into the Lord and I let him carry me. I let him lead me, I let him give me whispers, I let him show me like, and I had a choice, you know, like if I would be obedient to those things and do the things that, you know, he led me to do. And it's like he carried me through it all. So good. And so he gets all the glory and all of the credit. And I'm just so thankful to him and thankful to you, like for being there and helping me and listening and giving me feedback even when I wasn't necessarily what I wanted to hear. Which is a whole nother thing. But you still spoke the truth, and I'm thankful for that. I am too. And I would just encourage you, like if you're still watching and still listening, which I hope you are, like to lean into the Holy Spirit and to know

Final Encouragement And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 58:55

that and to let him carry you, to completely surrender to him. And even if things look messy or feel ugly, like let him just carry you and just believe that he's gonna carry you into someone more beautiful and brighter than you ever thought that you could be, more whole than you ever thought that you could be. And when he brings things to the surface, like don't fight against it, like just let it come and face those things as he brings things. Um, it's good. It's always for your good and for his glory.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

That's right. Well, guys, thank you so much for being a part of this today. Uh, it's an amazing conversation. Thank you for being a part of it. And again, I want to invite all of our partners to come join us here in Covington at the latter part of August and come celebrate uh with me. It's gonna be my 40th birthday the day before. So the next day we're gonna party 40th birthday style with our partners, we're gonna eat together, gonna teach, fellowship, minister, just have a great time connecting with one another. I cannot wait to see your face. Listen, if you um are not a partner, just become a partner. What is a partner? Anybody that gives any amount to our ministry in a recurring monthly gift, you're a partner of our ministry. We don't set any kind of amount on that. We have people that give big and some people that are only able to give $5 a month, all of that counts and it means the world to us. And so sign up, become a partner, come join us in August and let's celebrate together that first partner event. It's gonna be so cool. Our first ever partner event. And uh really looking forward to seeing you there. And so get that link below to become a partner. Also, the eventbrite um link is there below as well for you to get registered for that partner event. And like I said, it's free to come for all of our partners. But if you want to eat with us, you've got to get those meal tickets, okay? And so purchase that meal ticket for you and your spouse that takes care of both of your meals and drinks for that day. It's gonna be an amazing time. So we're looking forward to seeing you soon. Thanks for if you stuck with us till here to hear, you're a real one, okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

So we need to share because last episode was. Nobody's guessed. Nobody's guessed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

So you gotta, you gotta, we can't even talk about this week's cup. You gotta, you gotta guess from the first episode. But we love you guys. We appreciate you being here. If you stuck with us to this part, you're a real one. Because I think we've gone almost two hours. Logia, has it been close to two? All right, we'll catch you on the next episode.