Dr. Lorri Sulpizio- Outed, Fired, and Unapologetic- the fallout of telling her truth.

Quincy sits down with leadership educator and former women’s college basketball coach Lorri Sulpizio for the first of a two-part conversation focused on “the fire”: what it costs to speak up when silence would be easier. Lorri—director of the Conscious Leadership Academy at the University of San Diego, founder/coach at LorriSulpizio.com, a queer mother of four, and a self-described leadership disruptor—shares how her leadership lens was forged through athletics and public consequence. She recounts growing up in conservative, Catholic family in Poway (San Diego), recognizing her sexuality early, and becoming an outspoken athlete attuned to gender inequity. Lorri describes how advocating for Title IX equity and refusing to stay quiet as a successful community college coach led to her being fired while pregnant and publicly outed, and how she chose to pursue a wrongful termination case despite warnings it could be long, grueling, and could end her coaching career. She details the emotional and physical experience of the trial, the pain of being publicly attacked, the surprise of who did and didn’t show up in support, and the importance of not anchoring to outcomes while telling the truth. The episode covers her landmark jury win in a community college Title IX case, her brief return to coaching at another two-year college until that program was cut, and how she ultimately shifted her PhD focus toward women’s voice and power in leadership. Lorri also discusses motherhood, identity beyond roles, asking for help, the pressure and burnout culture in youth sports, toxic coaching, fueling and recovery for young athletes, and how she and her ex-wife co-parent their four children after a divorce they frame as not “broken” or “failed.” The conversation closes with reflections on women’s leadership in sports organizations, and the Quincy ends by emphasizing the lingering personal cost—and necessary wholeness—of telling the truth in small-town systems.

00:00 Meet Lorri Sulpizio: Leadership, Voice & the Fire We’re Starting With

02:02 Warm-Up: Who Are You When No One Needs You? (Goofy, Musical, Competitive)

03:36 Motherhood & What’s Next: Kids’ Ages, Empty-Nest Energy, New Creative Goals

04:52 Growing Up Queer & Athletic in Conservative, Catholic San Diego

06:36 Sports vs. Arts: Specialization, Choosing One Path, and What Kids Lose

09:32 Finding Your Voice (and the Risk): Early Lessons in Gender Inequity

11:45 What’s Changed in Girls’ Sports: Visibility, Gender Norms, and Progress Since Then

13:32 The Firing: How Lorri Got Into Coaching, Coming Out, and Pushing Title IX

21:04 The Lawsuit & Jury Trial: Telling the Truth, Pain on the Stand, and the Verdict

24:54 Aftermath & Holding It Together: Support Systems, Asking for Help, and Mom Burnout

33:16 Small Luxuries & the ‘Sliding Doors’ Question: Any Regrets Speaking Up?

34:22 Leaving the Team Without Leaving the Players: Supporting Student-Athletes After the Fallout

36:16 Program Canceled Again: Walking Away from Coaching and Shifting to Women’s Leadership

37:35 Life After Divorce: Co-Parenting, New Partners, and Redefining ‘Family’

38:52 Still an Athlete: From Basketball to Pickleball—and Retiring After Broken Ribs

40:16 Team Pressure vs Solo Sports: Why Some Athletes Thrive Alone

42:45 Parenting Athletes: Standards, Process Over Outcomes, and Dealing with Toxic Coaches

48:06 The Youth Sports Machine: Overtraining, Club Tryouts, and Kids Burning Out

55:57 Changing the System: What Coaches and Schools Can Do Differently

59:49 Coaching the Coaches: Building Healthier Team Cultures (and a Future Course)

01:01:16 Final Take: Women’s Leaders

Transcript

Quincy 0:02

Hi everybody. We are sitting down today with Lori Sulpizio. She and I spoke a few weeks ago. We both knew this couldn't be just one episode. There was too much here, too much honesty, too much depth. There was a part of her story about voice and consequence and what it cost to speak when silence would be easier. And then there was this whole other dimension about holding people. Well, once you've walked through that fire, you can't rush either of those, so we didn't. So we're recording two episodes and today we begin with the fire. Lori doesn't just teach leadership, she's bled for it. A former college basketball coach, queer mother of four, an unapologetic leadership disruptor. She has built her career with a question. Most people are too afraid to ask. What actually happens when we stop performing and lead as real unedited selves? She's the director of the Conscious Leadership Academy at the University of San Diego, and the founder and coach of Lori suo.com. She coaches in leadership spaces where gender, power, voice, and identity are not abstract concepts, but lived realities. Her work challenges leaders to confront how they use authority, how they build trust, and whether they are creating safety or simply demanding loyalty. But her lens wasn't shaped in the classroom. It was forged on the court and in the fire. A successful women's basketball coach, Sulpizio advocated for Title IX equity. She spoke up, she refused silence, and she was fired and publicly outed as a lesbian in the process. Instead of shrinking, she fought back and she won a landmark discrimination case that exposed the very systems she now teaches leaders to interrogate. So as I sit across from her today, and we talk about voice and power, it won't feel academic. It'll feel charged. I won't be talking to someone who studies leadership. I'll be talking to a woman who has survived the consequences of it and chosen to stay visible. Anyway, so welcome to the show. Thank you so much.

Lorri 2:00

Thank you. What an intro.

Quincy 2:01

Thank

Lorri 2:01

you.

Quincy 2:02

So I have one warmup question for you.

Lorri 2:04

Okay.

Quincy 2:05

If you stripped away the educator, the coach, and the mother, who are you when no one needs you?

Lorri 2:12

Ooh, great question. I think the, who are you question is, is so complex anyway. Like, do you go by role? You know, like, is it just, I am a mother or sister, a daughter or friend. My gut comes to something like, I'm kind of goofy musical, loves the outdoors, wants to have fun, sit on the floor with my dogs, you know, just laugh a lot. I think that's the person I just, I'm, I'm that person that would just wanna sit down and have a good time with you. But still, I, I think I still exist at a level. Like, so if we're gonna play board games, I have to dial back my competition, you know what I mean? I think I always have those parts in me, but I think I'm more, maybe more, more silly and lighthearted. And maybe just kinda my kids and my, my, my family sees that part of me, uh, my close friends.

Quincy 3:04

I see that on Instagram when you're dancing

Lorri 3:06

and

Quincy 3:07

stuff like

Lorri 3:07

that. Like yeah, those are my favorite things. And sometimes it's like, Ooh, is this off brand? And that's part of what we're talking about, which is like, I don't care. You know? I mean mm-hmm. I mean, I guess I do care, but you know, it's, I get to be with my kids and my kids are young adults and there's not a whole lot of ways often to connect with teenagers. And if they want to sit and dance with me, and we'll do a bunch of takes and laugh and joke, like, heck yeah. And then post it and show people like it's okay to laugh. Be kinda silly and not care, and just enjoy the moment.

Quincy 3:36

And how old are all the kids?

Lorri 3:38

So my oldest is 23 and he's in grad school. Um, my number two is 20, actually. He'll be 21 in March, so he's almost 21. Um, and he's the football player at Cornell. And then I've got, my daughter's a senior, she's 18. She was graduating, hoping to play basketball in college. And then my baby boy who's six three and uh, is uh, 15.

Quincy 3:58

Oh my gosh.

Lorri 4:00

How, who just got his driver's permit today. Wow. Today? Yeah. On the way up here, I saw a picture of him holding his little permit with a thumbs up. I was like, yeahs, do it. So, yeah. So I'm kind of the, the light at the end of that tunnel, you know, that motherhood tunnels are starting to see it,

Quincy 4:14

what are you gonna do after

Lorri 4:16

I, I gave so much of my time, effort, and energy to mothering and I loved it. Love it. You know, present tense and loved it along the way. I'm excited to work. Mm-hmm. I'm excited to keep making content. I'd love to write more. I want to make a relationship course. I'd love to travel and travel for work, you know, so I kind of wanna lean into my career in a way that I didn't, I made the choice to sort of, take a slower path with the career so that I could be super present and active as a mom. And so now I'm like, all right, let's go time, oh,

Quincy 4:48

God's so exciting. I'm so happy for you. Yeah,

Lorri 4:51

that's awesome. Thanks. Yeah.

Quincy 4:52

So tell us a little bit more about Lori as a little girl. Mm-hmm. And what it was like as a lesbian if you knew you were a lesbian, when you were younger and an athlete, and how you found your voice.

Lorri 5:03

Yeah. So I think I was always an athlete. I was always a lesbian. I grew up in a, a kind of north county suburb of San Diego Poway, which was conservative, small-ish town at the time. It's grown, but it was kinda a conservative area and. I think at the time, you know, in, in the kinda eighties, early eighties, it was, tomboy was what we were called. I don't know that even that's used as much anymore, but I was definitely a tomboy. You know, I wore shorts and t-shirt. I didn't wanna wear dresses, I wanted my hair short. I wanted to play baseball with the boys. I just, I was an athlete from the beginning. I loved sport, I loved athletics, I loved exercising. Like, it just, it was part of me. And I did realize really early, I mean, I'm one of those that can say I look back to third grade, you know, and now with social media, I'm not gonna say her name, you know, but remember having this crush and thinking this is different. You know, this isn't what everybody else is talking about. And just kind of knowing that there was, at the time, it felt like maybe there was something off. I was also raised very, very Catholic. I've got a Latin mother. She was an immigrant from Costa Rica. My dad's Italian, thus the Sulpizio name. And so there's a lot of Catholicism in those two, in those two cultures. And so. I knew that there was something different. I knew that, whatever, all the other little girls liking the boys was like, not my, not my jam, but I didn't quite know what to make of it in elementary school. I don't think, I didn't really know what to make of it until high school, but I knew very young.

Quincy 6:33

Oh, that's so great.

Lorri 6:34

Yeah.

Quincy 6:35

So great. So when did you start playing basketball?

Lorri 6:39

Oh, probably like middle school, you know, I mean, I played soccer, young softball, you know, t-ball, like, I think I did all the things. My parents really were great in exposing my sisters and I, I'm the oldest of three to sports and music. Like I played the piano. I was in the band, you know, so we just were really encouraged to do a lot of extracurricular things just to, and, and I think that's why I love engaging with the world. Like there's so much to learn. I think there's so much to, to try. Um, I'm not the best artist, but I do love like that creative process. You know, drawing like. Mandalas or manolas, whatever they're called. Mm-hmm. You know, just kind of taking that time. And so I think that came from my parents really encouraging us to just be really active and in, in whatever that looked like. And we happened to gravitate more to sports than say theater. But I played the saxophone up until high school and then the school I went to, the band was a really big deal and so was athletic. So you couldn't do both. So I picked sports even though I loved, kinda being a musician. Now I play the guitar,

Quincy 7:41

It, that's a shame that they do that.'cause they still do that. At my daughter's school, she had expressed interest in, you know, maybe being in the plays. Mm-hmm. Because she was in theater when she was in elementary school and she got to middle school and she also wanted to do tennis and volleyball and basketball and beach volleyball they had this year. And you can't do any of those at the same time. And it's just so sad that they make you. Choose one thing or the other.

Lorri 8:06

Yeah. I mean, it is, I think now it's way worse than it was, however many years ago, decades ago, when I was going through middle school and high school, because I was able to do all the sports. That was still a thing. You know, the club sports now the specialization, focusing kids to pick one sport at nine, I mean, it is so detrimental. I mean, it's actually horrible. But I didn't have to do that. And I, but I, and I do understand helping kids un learn that you can't do everything right. So it's like, part of it is we do have to make choices and it stinks that there aren't more hours in the day or that there's more, but I understood like the way that say the, the, the play, the musical for school, they practiced every day also. Mm-hmm. So did the basketball team, you know, so how you ke you just sort of have to start making choices. And I think if, if done right with kids, it's a way to really help them start to determine what's important to them. Mm-hmm. You know, what do they love? Maybe not being locked in, like maybe try it one year. And if you decide like, you know what? I wanna do the play next year. Great. Make a change. Do the play next year. You know, don't be locked in, but realize you do have to make a choice and can be all in and commit.

Quincy 9:12

Oh, that's so great. Because she kind of came home and she's like, well what, what should I do? And I'm like, well, you haven't ever played these sports before, so I would do that if you wanna do it. Yeah. And she did. And she's sticking with the sports and decided not to do the plays and things like that. I'm like, you sing at home and you can pretend at home and whatever. So it works out. But let's talk some more about before you were a coach or a leader. When did you first learn that maybe as a student athlete, that using your voice could be risky?

Lorri 9:43

I think I always was aware that things were different for girls than boys, and I didn't like it. I always spoke out, I, probably more a petulant child when I was a petulant child, you know, like, that's not fair. This stinks. But I remember in high school specifically the cheerleaders only went to the boys games, the boys basketball games, and we were actually a more successful team. And so it was kind of one of those things where I also started to learn like, you know, just the heterosexual dynamic, right? Of course the girls are gonna go and cheer to watch the boys. Mm-hmm. And that dy and I didn't like that dynamic either. Mm-hmm. Um, but then it's like, come cheer for us. I mean, you're not actually, you're cheering the, you're leading the crowd to cheer for the most, you know, one of the most successful teams on the campus. Like, what's up with that? Mm-hmm. Um, and so we, we kinda spoke out, some of us spoke out about that and we're vocal and you just, do you kind of then get negative consequence or you get this idea that you're being. Like pushy. And so I learned that you gotta be careful with your voice, although I didn't really learn that until later because I wasn't careful with my voice. Um, I think only now do I recognize how sometimes, and I'll joke with people, I think even today, Lori goes to open her mouth and people like brace themselves, you know, and I'm getting better at it, but because I will, I'll raise the inequity, I'll call out what I think is not happening the way it should be happening. I'm not afraid to have the hard conversation. Mm-hmm. But it does come with consequence, you know, more, with more so maybe how people view you, how they respond to you, how they engage with you, the reputation that you have, you know, for maybe being a disruptor for and not in a positive way.

Quincy 11:24

Mm-hmm.

Lorri 11:25

Right. For, and certainly, I know we'll talk about my experience as a college basketball coach and, and getting fired, but. Certainly with that eye roll of like, you know, how dare she, you know, how, how dare she open her mouth? Or how dare they think that they should have what football has or they should have, you know, and it's,

Quincy 11:41

mm-hmm.

Lorri 11:42

So it's just, it's a tough, it's a tough line to navigate.

Quincy 11:46

How, like with your kids in their sports mm-hmm. Over the last several years, what have you seen change even from your grad student to your 11th grader? 10th grader or 11th grader?

Lorri 11:56

Change in terms of like equity stuff or just,

Quincy 11:58

yeah. Has there been like even a shift in like who's allowed to play on their teams? Are there boy cheerleaders at their school? Like that sort of, stuff. We went to the UCLA game the other day at,

Lorri 12:08

yeah. Oh, that's

Quincy 12:09

cool. On campus there was one male cheerleader.

Lorri 12:11

Yeah.

Quincy 12:12

Which was great. He's fan phenomenal, but it was just still even a shame at 20 25, 26 in college. I

Lorri 12:22

feel there's more a function though of like gender norms and what's okay for, young men, young women to do and to be. And I, so I think there's probably, and there's probably some, you know, homophobia in that too, in terms of a boy being a cheerleader or being on a dance team. So I'm sure there's some of that layered, I would say certainly on the girls side, sports taking off and it's amazing. And women's basketball is amazing, you know, every, it was before Caitlyn Clark, obviously we've been following it forever and'cause that's our, our, one of our main sports. But the opportunity for girls and the looks girls are getting, and the voices from women's soccer to, you know, rugby, to, you know, all the different Olympic sports, like just the. The presence and the kinda fight and persistence to be valued and recognized, I think is certainly unlike what was back in my day. And it's so beautiful to see. It's nowhere near equal, you know, in terms of pricing and money and even facilities. But we're getting there and the visibility is there, which I think is so great. It's great for my daughter, you know, I told her she's been,

Quincy 13:21

my gosh,

Lorri 13:21

I'm so excited of her. Yeah, for sure. And for your daughter who's younger than my daughter. Right. So, yeah.

Quincy 13:25

Yeah. That's awesome. I hope that she goes off to college and plays basketball

Lorri 13:29

for sure. Yeah. I think she, I think she will.

Quincy 13:30

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so exciting. So take us to the moment when you were fired from coaching. Not the facts, but the human experience. What did your body know before your mind caught up and probably go mm-hmm. Into how you got into the coaching? Before you answer that question.

Lorri 13:45

Mm-hmm. So even in high school, I knew I wanted to be like a basketball coach and an English teacher. And so I went to college. I went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and I was an English major with a women's studies minor and thought, okay, I want to be a basketball co or be a basketball coach in an English teacher in high school. Got an opportunity to become an assistant coach, a col, A friend of mine was assistant coaching at Mesa College, a two year college in San Diego. And she was gonna leave and said, Hey, why don't you just come, let me introduce you to the head coach. So I, I got in that way, which was really fun. Spent like a little bit of time with the team and just loved it. I loved the level, I loved that it was a step up from high school. Um, I connected with the head coach and. Ended up becoming the assistant coach. She, the head coach went on sabbatical. So I was able to become the interim head coach for that year, which was just beautiful timing. I feel very lucky for that kind of timing. We had an amazing year. We went undefeated in, in conference.

Quincy 14:36

Congratulations.

Lorri 14:37

Thank you. Super fun. And then it just made sense, you know, to be able to be put into the head coach. I mean, it made sense to me so it happened to become the head coach. Mm-hmm. You know, and it was super fun. I mean, I loved it. I saw myself in athletics, back then forever. And I think it's, I still find ways to be in athletics to this day. It's never something I'm gonna let go of, I don't think. But I had had the two boys, so I birthed all the kids and when my, my now ex-wife and then partner and I decided to have our firstborn, so in 2001, we thought, when we talked about getting, getting pregnant, I had decided I didn't want to do it closeted. You know, I, I. We all have internalized homophobia, we all have that shame. But I didn't want to sort of pass that on to my child. And I thought, you know what, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna be okay with who we are. We want him to be proud of his moms. And so we weren't crazy out, but we just didn't stop hiding. You know? We didn't shout it out, but we didn't deny it, you know, and I put pictures of him when he was born and, and my partner, and we put of our friends. And so that was the first step I think that started to happen. And then, you know, like I said, I used my voice and there was a whole bunch of Title IX violations. I mean, just gender inequities all over. And I, and

Quincy 15:56

this was still at Mesa?

Lorri 15:56

Yeah.

Quincy 15:57

Okay.

Lorri 15:57

And I just wasn't silent about it, you know, I just, it's hard for me to be silent about those kind of things. You know? We think it's a blessing, but it's not always because I think you can push yourself out of the system, which I did. You know, in leadership terms, we call it like metaphorically getting assassinated, right? Mm-hmm. Where you. Pushed outta the system if the system's not equipped to handle the pressure that you're putting on it. So one of the big skills that people, I tell people is that you've gotta like, recognize an issue. How ripe is this issue? Can I, and in relationships too, personal ones like, can I keep pushing? If I keep pushing what's gonna happen? We keep, we push others, we push a system and then it blows. And so, you know, I was, I dunno, 25 years old or whatever it was, and didn't have that kind of wisdom and just kept pushing for all the different things that felt so unequal to me. And then had both boys was pregnant with my daughter at the time and was asked kind of with the cryptic meeting for the athletic director. And I can still remember, I mean, I can remember exactly the setup of the room, you know, I even remember the date. I mean, you know, and it was in 2007, um, before she was born and she was born in August. So it was that kind of in, in March. And. Walking in and just seeing, you know, these two men and I, I ha I just, you know, you have that gut feeling. Yeah, yeah. Like, this isn't gonna be good. I didn't know why, but it just, they don't, we don't, they didn't usually ask for meetings this way and just walked in and they just said, we're not reassigning you. It's just flat out, you know. Wow. And I was like, can you tell me why? Because we were one of the better programs in San Diego. We had a great track record of sending players on, so like, you know, super aligned with the mission of the school. Um, I was involved in the, the school. I had started my PhD program in af like in leadership, but was focusing on coach athlete kind of relationships and compatibility. Mm-hmm. Um, and they just said, we don't have to give you a reason. And they don't, because it's athletics. I mean, they just, you know, it's, they're, you're not tenured in coaching in the same, in the same way that you would be as a faculty, like an academic faculty. So, yeah. And I was like, whoa. You know, like, it, it was, it was, it was, it was wild. It. Blindsided, but not

Quincy 18:06

Okay. You

Lorri 18:06

know, surprising, but not, you know, those moments where it's like, it still feels like a blast, like a, you know, but

Quincy 18:12

Yeah.

Lorri 18:12

But you deep down were like, I'm not surprised.

Quincy 18:16

Wow. Wow.

Lorri 18:18

Yeah.

Quincy 18:18

So you'd been coaching there for like six years by then about

Lorri 18:21

Yeah. Almost like, yes. Seventh finishing. I think I'm finishing my seventh year.

Quincy 18:24

Wow. Mm-hmm. Wow. So they'd already gone through two pregnancies with you mm-hmm.

18:27

And

Quincy 18:27

kind of whatever, shoved it under the rug, if you will. Yeah. Or whatever, but they were like, okay, the third kid,

Lorri 18:32

right.

Quincy 18:33

We're not doing this again.

Lorri 18:34

Uh, who knows what their intentions were, you know? I mean, I do think that I pushed too hard and, you know, and maybe it was less about the ho, you know, the gay thing and more about the gender equity thing, having to be held accountable for that, you know. Mm-hmm. But I remember that day,'cause my, my ex-wife was assistant coach with me. Mm-hmm. So we worked there together and I remember kind of calling her and telling her. And we just were shocked. And, you know, I'm in this PhD program and like, what in the, so we took the kid, the boys to SeaWorld, like we, you know what I mean? Yeah. We just, like, what? So we went to SeaWorld and just sort of like, I remember being in the Shamu show, like thinking what in the world? And I'm a, I'm a doer, right? So I immediately just started calling some of my mentors and sharing, like, this happened, I can need some assistance. And the, the basketball lesbian world is a, is a small one. And so I immediately got some calls from coaches that had been my mentors that had connections to equity law firms and kind of went to, they went to work quickly and said, we think you have a, we think you have a case. Oh wow. You know, do you want, do you wanna sue? This is wrongful termination. And we had to really think about it because like I said, I was pregnant, you know, with my third kid. And they said it could be long and grueling, which it was. And they said, you may never coach again. You know, because people may not necessarily wanna hire somebody that. Sued, you'd be, you know, you're, you're a suit risk. Mm-hmm. Um, you're a litigation risk, so what do you think? And I had to really think about it, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, and I think it down at the end of the day I guess my sense of right and wrong outweigh from an, from a justice standpoint, especially a gender and LGBQ standpoint, just outweighed my selfish desire to want to coach forever, you know? Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, all right, I guess we're, we're doing this, let's do it. And so we sued the school, the ad and the district, and we won the first ever trial by jury for community college Title ix. Yeah.

Quincy 20:32

Wow.

Lorri 20:32

Yeah. So it's cool to tell the story that way. Mm-hmm. You know, but for a long time every time that basketball season started, you know, started like in that, fall, you know, October, November, when games started, it would, you know, it was painful because that's what I was gonna be doing with my life, but you have to make choices.

Quincy 20:49

Yeah.

Lorri 20:50

And I love what I do now, so it's like, high source, God, whoever opens, opens doors when they close, certain ones and other ones open. You just gotta be able to walk through.

Quincy 21:00

Yeah.

Lorri 21:00

And just trust yourself, you know? So it's like, yeah, it was, it worked out.

Quincy 21:04

So take us back to like back judgment day, if you will. Like the day they were delivering the verdict. Oh yeah. If you will. What did that look like? Like how did you feel like in your chest, in your body, what was the, what sort of loss was it gonna be if you lost? Yeah. And obviously we know that you didn't, but what were you feeling?

Lorri 21:24

Well, my lawyers were amazing, you know, and I'm pretty stoic, and I don't emote a ton. I'm way better now, I've leaned into vulnerability. I'm a Brene Brown, you know, kind of facilitator now. I kind of facilitate her work. So I've done all that. But back then, you know, I think, and it was a protective mechanism because when you grow up, you know, being told you're going to hell when you grow up being, you know, being the wrong kind of woman or whatever, like you, you do, you develop armor and you protect yourself. So, but the lawyers did a great job of getting me to tap into the pain of what it was like to be, have that career ripped away from me, you know, that I really loved doing and wanted to do for my whole life. And I remember like, I broke down on the stand, you know, just Wow. Yeah. Started crying and thinking was a little embarrassed by it, because I'm like, oh my God, get your shit together, Lori. You know? But then it just felt, I felt really, I had such great group of lawyers. I felt really safe with them, and it just felt like I was able to honestly. Tell the truth of the story. Like not just the anger for like, this is not okay, but the pain, you know? And I think that's often what gets missed in some of these inequities. I think we're seeing it now in the world, but the pain that it causes people mm-hmm. When you are at the mercy of those in power who are abusing their power,

Quincy 22:45

right?

Lorri 22:45

At the expense of identity of other people's based on identity or based on, you know, skin color identity or sexual orientation, religion, all the things, immigrant status, whatever. So the, I, I felt no matter what, that we told a beautiful story and a true story it wasn't easy because, you know, you become, and they warned me for this, but you become the worst of everything. You know? That's what the, the defendant and their lawyers were like, I became the worst faculty member, the worst coach. Like, you know what I mean? Just, just ripped up a new one, you know, like publicly. Mom comes to the, you know, people are coming and listening to this court, you know, this trial. And it was hurtful sometimes because some people that I thought should have shown up for me, who even encouraged me to use my voice, like some of the other faculty at the time, didn't show up at all. They went silent and just, and I get it now. They needed to protect themselves and everything. And then it was amazing the players that did show up that I didn't expect it. So it really was this kind of beautiful lesson in, when you work with people you don't know who you're impacting in what way? Because the players that ended up testifying for me, I would've never guessed that they, yeah, never guessed that I, and the ones that I thought might have maybe didn't, not all of'em did. So there was just reconciling that kind of pain. But then that surprise and deep gratitude for the risks that some of these players took to testify for me. But I just trusted the process and it was like, you know what? We did something really great. I made, you know, great friends with the lawyers that worked and the people that we connected with. And it's like, all right, we did, we tried, you know, whatever happens, it's not in our hands. And that's part of, I think with using your voice or with being confident you, you can't anchor to the outcome.

Quincy 24:33

Okay.

Lorri 24:33

You know, it's gotta be the, the process.'cause we don't have, I don't, didn't have control over the jury. And it just so happens that they ruled in our favor. So I remember holding my breath. I mean, I can still remember the, like being in the courtroom and the whole, you know, and it was, it was pretty cool to, to have that. It felt validating for something bigger than me, I would say.

Quincy 24:53

That's great.

Lorri 24:53

Yeah.

Quincy 24:54

So when they delivered the verdict, what did you, what did they actually, what did they lose when they sided with you? Like what happened with the school? What happened with the termination?

Lorri 25:07

Yeah, that's a great question. I so. It's funny because I don't know, I've, I've started to reconnect. I, I think they had to put certain things in place, you know, certain changes in place. And I think they had to like look at certain policies the way faculty got assigned classes and coaches got assigned, things like that. But I don't totally know because I sort of walked away from it. Mm. Like I just, it was, I couldn't stay connected to it. I actually did get hired to coach again, which was surprising. So there was another two year college that had a lesbian athletic director who was starting a women's program and connect, small world in San Diego. We had a chance to connect and I was able, and I coached there for three years before then the school cut the program, and I was, and they were like, you should. I'm like, no, no, I'm not doing that again. So, um, so I was able to coach again. But yeah, I think, I think the loss was more the not knowing that we, the women and that, you know, the athletes were right, but that you. Yes. You can't treat us this way.

Quincy 26:07

Yeah.

Lorri 26:07

You know, like, yes, you can't do this, you can't act like this. You can't put a lock on the women's locker room and prevent the women athletes to come in because you want a visiting football team to change in there because those guys are big. I mean, you can't do that. No. You know what I mean? Like there's things that you just, you cannot do that. And so from that place, I think when people feel like they can do what they want and finally it's like, no, you can't, then it's, I think that was the gain for us and then the loss for them.

Quincy 26:37

So you're going through this lawsuit, you're just newly delivered probably by the time you guys got to court. Mm-hmm. Or relatively newly delivered. Mm-hmm. You're studying for a PhD program?

Lorri 26:48

Yeah.

Quincy 26:49

How did you keep it together? Oh gosh. I am like sitting here going, my mind would've exploded. Absolutely exploded.

Lorri 26:56

I mean,

Quincy 26:56

it's two toddlers now.

Lorri 26:57

Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Two things. I think one, I would say. I do have a capacity to hold it together. And I think I've learned now as I've gotten older though, that, that I, it is okay to ask for help and it is okay. Right. So I think I'm, I have a very big capacity to hold a lot. And I have an amazing support group in San Diego. Like, my parents live there, my sisters live there. They're amazing. They helped watch the boys, they helped my sister, you know, my young, I'm the oldest, so my youngest one would watch my oldest for when we had, were coaching. And at the time on my ex's family, she had an aunt who helped watch. So we had help watching the kids when we were doing trial things, we were going places. So just the support. And it was amazing because to go through something that's kind of vulnerable, that does put, you know, it took a while for our families. I think, actually that's not true. My family right away was amazing in terms of my sexual orientation. I think just them having to stand by somebody who's really trying to fight the system. It's hard on a family, you know, it's hard on other people to show support. My two best friends were there. So I think having, knowing that I had people behind me was how I had, how I did it. I don't think I could have done it alone. And I had an amazing support staff and you know, I, my staff, I mean my family, my friends, the people that kind of build me up and be that soft place to land, all that stuff.

Quincy 28:18

Yeah. And Poway, like you said, it was very small, so I'm sure that your parents got automatically wrapped up into that. Yeah. And you're trying to make sure they're okay.

Lorri 28:27

Yeah,

Quincy 28:27

the babies okay. The boys are okay. Like, that's such a weight that we, as women, like you said, we hold so much weight and then it just gets bigger and bigger. And how do you coach women now that are sort of going through all these different things and you see their relationships starting to fall apart? How do you bring that Lori back from. This crazy time into like something very focused so that these women can see you can carry this, but you know, divide and conquer, sort of.

Lorri 28:57

Yeah. I think it's helping women learn to ask for help. To know that it's okay to not be okay. I think there's this perfectionist kind of, you know, idea that we are fed, like we should be, we should always look great. We shouldn't look tired. You know, we shouldn't ever admit that we are sick and tired of being a mom. I mean, right.'cause God forbid, and we should be good at our work and I think it's okay to not be okay. Yeah. And we're starting to get more of that more permission to ask for help and to not be okay, but that's the first step. And then to really look at your circle and to say, who will show up for me? And recognize that people like showing up for us. I think we just need to give them a chance to do it. So it's often helping women identify like, who do you have that can show up for you? Even if it's just provide support, hop on a phone call and you know, just talk through something with you or talk you off a ledge or go out to dinner, go to happy hour with you, take a walk with you. I mean all just feel in community with somebody that you know has your back and loves you for you in that moment. Whatever you're going through, it doesn't matter. Whatever you are working towards that, that doesn't matter. It's just you. They're there for you because they love you, they care about you and you care back for them. Those kinds of relationships are critical.

Quincy 30:08

Oh, I totally agree. It's because I'm a single mom, but I only have one. But I've had two kids previous in another relationship and it seemed like when they were younger,'cause I was so much younger than my girls are 21 years apart. So I had 21 years before my now littlest one came along and. I remember thinking to myself back then, like I never really asked for help because there was so much help there because people realized I was so young. But now that people know I've like done this before.

Lorri 30:37

Oh yeah.

Quincy 30:37

It is very hard for people to see that I'm struggling.

Lorri 30:40

Right.

Quincy 30:41

So for me, when I actually do ask for help, I'm like, I've been doing this for six months or a year or you know, whatever it is. And we've been going through something with my daughter recently and she finally went to my parents' house for three nights. Wow. After a little over a year of not being away from me. And that was a huge thing. Like I could not believe that I had three nights off because I got so used to her. Her other mom and I broke up when she was 14 months old. So I was used to like every other weekend or you know, like a couple times here and there, like just picking her up and doing whatever. And it got to the point where she only wanted to be with me and. It was really, really hard.

Lorri 31:21

Yeah.

Quincy 31:21

And you know, like one month from two, then three, then four. And I'm like, oh my God, I have been with her every day.

Lorri 31:26

Yeah.

Quincy 31:26

I love this. We're getting closer, but I'm about ready to like blow my top. Yeah. So, a year plus later goes by and she goes off to grandma's in every like hour that no text messages, no calls came through. I was like yes, we're gonna make a run naked. And at the end of the whole weekend, she was so proud of herself. But, oh, that's great. That like, realizing that people don't see in your face the amount of struggle, you know, yeah. That you like, that you go through and things like that is, is just incredible.

Lorri 31:55

But I'm gonna put it back on you though and say, you probably don't show it.

Quincy 31:59

No.

Lorri 31:59

I don't. So I mean, on one hand it's to say like, well people don't see it.'cause I, you know, I think I say the same thing. Well, they don't recognize like, of course I need help, but like. If I'm not showing it, if I'm acting as if I have it all together, if you are looking polished and poised and you, and we don't share with people that we're struggling, then how do people know to offer help?

Quincy 32:18

That's true. You're right. And I don't mean to look any certain way, like we don't mean to look that necessarily. Right. But it just gets into like this habit. Yeah. Of this is how I am, this is what I do. Yeah. And I, give me a 52 card pickup and I'll probably pick up all 50 very quickly. Yeah.

Lorri 32:33

Right.

Quincy 32:34

There's two that fall off. But you know, you just kind of, it's practice.

Lorri 32:38

Yeah. And it's noticing our patterns to either overcompensate over function, go into overdrive, you know, all the things that we know moms do to kind of not stop and feel the pain, the overwhelm. Like if we just keep moving, it's all gonna be okay. Well, it's not okay. We're, we're not. Okay. And we usually, who suffers is us.

Quincy 32:58

Mm-hmm.

Lorri 32:58

Or we don't get an exercise, we don't sleep well. Yes. We're eating, you know. Crappy because we're eating on the go, we're standing up and it's like we, but we do that to ourselves. Mm-hmm.

Quincy 33:09

Yeah. January, like, I don't know, 20th came or something like that. And I'm like, it's been a year since I've even had a massage.

Lorri 33:15

Yeah,

Quincy 33:16

right. Something as simple as a massage. I can walk down the street to this beautiful little tie massage place for 90 bucks and get a massage and I haven't even done it.

Lorri 33:24

Yeah.

Quincy 33:25

You know, it's that, picking and choosing stuff. Yeah. But enough about that. So was there ever a moment you had wished you'd stayed quiet and what do you say now to that version of yourself?

Lorri 33:36

I mean, I'm, I often kinda have moments of being curious, like, if I was still coaching, what would life would be like, you know, would I have worked my way up and, and been kind of try to get into the four year? What would it been? So, I, I don't think I regret what I did, but I, I'm curious, like if I would've, the sliding door, you know, if, if the door, if I wouldn't have walked through the door and it would've stayed shut or whatever, what would it be like? So yeah, I think you, I think it's natural to wonder that one different choice, how would our life have been different?

Quincy 34:07

I just read something on the LA Times, posted some Reddit thread and it was very successful people that had missed some other opportunities. Yeah. And one was somebody that, you know, didn't buy Apple at a dollar a share and Oh, yeah. Because their advisor told them it was too expensive. But, um, when you take that loss from the people that didn't show up to you, how did you leave when you left and you knew there were students on the team that. Relied on you as a mentor, as a friend, as a coach, were you able to reach out to them so that they didn't sort of drop off because you knew they were on a thin thread of, whatever, what was happening at home or what was happening with their grades to stay on the team, et cetera? How did you keep connected with that?

Lorri 34:49

Oh, with the student athletes for sure. I mean, these were, 18-year-old kids. I wasn't, you know, I was older, I was still kind of a 20 something kid, you know, 27-year-old, kid myself. But but yes, with the student athletes, I didn't fault any of them. You know, I held nothing against any of them because they were caught up in the system too. Um, and so yes, it was, how are they gonna be taken care of? Is there gonna be another coach are gonna make sure they have a season? For many of them, we worked together to maybe tr help them transfer if they didn't wanna stay. So some of them didn't wanna stay and wanted to either try to get into a four year or transfer to another community college. They didn't, maybe they weren't gonna testify, which was fine, but they wanted to find what was next for them. And so we worked with all of them to try to help them figure out what's next and, and not leave them, kind of as the, in the aftermath of it. Yeah. So for sure for the students, with some of the faculty, maybe a little different story. The other coaches slightly different story. But with the students for sure. Because they didn't deserve it. That's, they're the byproduct of this inequity and it, and it's not fair to them.

Quincy 35:44

Do you still keep in contact with them now?

Lorri 35:46

Some of'em, you know, yeah. It's so funny. With social media, it's a, you know, that's one of the things that I love about it is I'll, I'll have, uh, you know, randomly like, Hey coach, you know, I saw your post, or Hey coach, I'm here. A couple of'em I actually see now they have kids who are a little bit younger, but we'll see each other at a tournament and I'll be like, oh my God, how are you? And like, their daughter's playing in a tournament and my daughter's playing, you know, in Vegas or at the Arizona Tournament Champions or something like that. And so I get to see them now, you know, and we get to keep in touch, which is, which is pretty cool.

Quincy 36:15

That is so cute. Mm-hmm. So when you moved on to. The next school that you coached at for the three years? Mm-hmm. What made you decide after those three years to stop? Was there some other something that caught up with you or did

Lorri 36:26

you just They canceled the program.

Quincy 36:28

Oh, they did.

Lorri 36:28

That's what I was saying. They canceled the program, which technically they shouldn't have because they didn't cancel the men's program. But it was, the school was relatively small. It was new. Now it's growing the program's back now, but, and that's when someone said like, you know, you should fight it. I'm like, oh, no, I'm done now. Done with that. I'm you. Okay? Yeah. I'm not like, yes, they shouldn't do that. Yes, it's probably illegal. There's a, there's a legal, you know, kind of violation there somewhere, but I'm not doing it again, you know?

Quincy 36:55

Yeah. So did you just become, jaded from coaching at like, at this point and you're just like, I'm completely done, or

Lorri 37:02

No, I loved coaching. I think it felt like a sign to just, like move on, you know what I mean? Like the universe does give you signs and so I fought once really hard. It had a great outcome and. Was in my program, I shifted my, my PhD dissertation to be women voice and power. So women in leadership, not so much athletes. And it just felt like there were other opportunities that started to surface within my PhD program and at University of San Diego. And it just felt like the universe is kind of giving me signs and so I took'em Nice. I listened.

Quincy 37:35

Nice.

Lorri 37:35

Yeah.

Quincy 37:35

So when you, when after you had your daughter and you had your next child and you guys decided that the family of four was complete and things like this, what do you think was the most pressure between you and your now ex-partner? Was it everything that led up to the firings and all those sorts of things? Or what do you think happened that made it sort of fall apart?

Lorri 37:58

I don't think it was related to coaching. In fact, we coached really well together. I mean, I think, you know. Without getting into a ton of details, I think some relationships just run their course. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think we both came to a place where our relationship gave each other all that it was gonna give each other and, and it was complete. You know, she's married to a man, I've got a, a beautiful partner myself. And so we've got the kids, we live close to each other. The kids, we've told'em from the beginning that, you know, we don't believe in broken family or failed marriage. I think that language is really detrimental. And you know, they still have two moms that love them and are present and show up for them. And now they've got additional, you know, kind of step families and they've got kind of other parts of their life that, post, um, divorce, some that stink, like moving back and forth houses. I know they don't love others that are, kind of beneficial. And so I think we just. Recognized that through the relationship had kind of run Its run. Its due course.

Quincy 38:51

Yeah.

Lorri 38:52

Yeah.

Quincy 38:52

Do you still play ball now?

Lorri 38:54

So it's funny, yes and no. For a long time I would play with the kids for, I played in like three on three. Mm-hmm. I played like five on five with some women. I haven't recently, now I've started to play like, um, played a little pickleball. I played tennis. That was another sport. So I still try to stay really active. I love mountain biking. But I haven't played basketball in a while. I was playing soccer quite a bit and I played, I was playing goalkeeper in a women's league and twice broke my ribs. So like, just the last time it was August of 2024, broke two ribs and I was like, I'm done. I'm retiring. Like, I just, it was so painful. I was so irritated. And I was so painful and I had to sit out for so long.'cause you know you can't do much with broken ribs. Right. And I was like, how are you, am I getting injured at goalkeeper? You know?'cause it's just, I'm too, I would go for too, you know what I mean? I don't. I don't scale it back, so I'm like saving the ball, like I'm, you know, playing for the Olympic team, like, you know, and then I just collide and crap. Anyway, this, so, so I retired from my goalkeeping days at soccer and now like, yeah.

Quincy 39:54

That is a lot of sports though. I love that.

Lorri 39:56

Yeah.

Quincy 39:56

Did you play tennis when you were younger and all these other things? Tennis

Lorri 39:59

and basketball were my two sports. Yeah.

Quincy 40:01

That's so cool.

Lorri 40:02

Yeah, I was, I think maybe even a better tennis player than a basketball player, but I loved the team aspect of it. Tennis is lonely, you know, it's a lonely sport. And when then I had basketball with my friends and we were very good at my high school and I was like, this looks, this is super fun.

Quincy 40:15

Yeah. And I'm opposite, oh, I loved gymnastics. Okay. From the 76 Olympics on, yeah. I still am a huge gymnastics fan and I liked it because I didn't like the pressure of the team.

Lorri 40:27

Okay.

Quincy 40:27

I didn't like if I missed a basket or a catch or whatever that you were sort of. The bad person of the day, yeah.

Lorri 40:35

Yeah.

Quincy 40:36

And that was too much pressure for me. Mm-hmm. I didn't like it. I was the oldest. Like you were the oldest, but I was only the oldest of two. But I was in a position of where there was almost three of us, because my cousin lived with us when we were younger. So I had these two younger boys and I just felt like everyone was always expecting me to be the good daughter and all these things. And I ended up revolting and being probably the worst daughter ever. Respectful. Loved my parents and cared about them, but did whatever they want. They said no, and I went out the door and did it anyway. Snuck out in the middle of the night, you name it. I was a nightmare, self-proclaimed nightmare. But I adored my family. I loved them and I wanted them to love me back. Despite that I was being this very squirrely, horrific child to them. Like behaviorally. I didn't wanna do my homework, like anything like that, but I just. Wanted gymnastics to be in my head. Like I was alone. I was, if I failed, it was me. And I'd go, darn it.

Lorri 41:32

Yeah.

Quincy 41:33

You know, or whatever. It was like, I didn't, and I didn't put that much pressure on myself

Lorri 41:36

Yeah.

Quincy 41:36

About it. It was like, oh, you made a mistake, it's okay.

Lorri 41:39

Right.

Quincy 41:39

And so I continued that sort of idea of sports through the rest of my life. Mm-hmm. Even through high school. And I did, I danced and things like that too, which we danced with a team, but I had solos and so in the solo I was obviously by myself doing my own thing. And I just, I'm still very much like that. Mm-hmm. Like I love people around me. Mm-hmm. But I love that solitude. Yeah. Where only I make the decisions.

Lorri 42:04

Yep.

Quincy 42:05

I love to leave my phone at home. I hate the damn thing because I wanna go on a walk and no one knows where I'm at.

Lorri 42:11

Yeah.

Quincy 42:11

I just wanna like get lost.

Lorri 42:13

Yeah.

Quincy 42:13

So I love watching team sports like crazy. Yeah. And I admire people that are really successful as a teammate, I'm. Not that person.

Lorri 42:22

Yeah. Hey, but at least you sound like you're self-aware.

Quincy 42:25

I am.

Lorri 42:25

I'm

Quincy 42:25

totally self-aware. Even as a kid I was like, oh no.

Lorri 42:27

Right.

Quincy 42:28

Yeah. They're like, oh, try this. And I would try out, but like,

Lorri 42:31

yeah. Oh,

Quincy 42:32

you know,

Lorri 42:32

so funny. That's so funny. So

Quincy 42:34

people were like, God, you have an arm, why didn't you play softball? Or whatever. And I'm like, just

Lorri 42:38

thank you.

Quincy 42:38

I didn't want to be, you know, if I missed like, a hit or something. Yeah, right. I didn't want that,

Lorri 42:44

that pressure. Sort

Quincy 42:44

of pressure.

Lorri 42:45

Mm-hmm.

Quincy 42:45

So how have you taught your kids about pressure on teams and things like that and when they first started playing, say peewee or things like that and you were seeing the parents yelling, how do you as a coach

Lorri 42:56

Yep.

Quincy 42:56

Sit in the stands and watch, especially with a son at Cornell and now your daughter going someplace to play basketball. We're getting up there,

Lorri 43:05

right? Yeah. I'm thinking like, this would probably be a question we should ask them, because they might say different. I think we were definitely hard and had high standards. I would like to think though, we also, again, it was about the process and effort. It wasn't about outcome or output even. It was more just, get out there and do your best. Let's train hard. It takes commitment. If we're doing it, let's kind of do it. That kind of thing. In fact, even I remember like a couple years ago, one of the things I would tell my daughter when she would go when she was playing club basketball was, you know, miss a lot of shots, miss a lot of shots because I wanted her to take shots and know like, if you take shots, you, you're gonna miss'em. You are gonna miss shots. So go out, miss a lot of shots today, go great practice, miss some shots. And so I, I hope that they would think, looking back, maybe that we pushed them, you know, and if they kind of committed, we would expect them to see things through. But we also were very willing to help them navigate hard times with coaches or teammates or take a day off if we knew that, you know, they were just kind of sick or overwhelmed or needed to recover. And I think we were also really present with them. We weren't the parents that just like, whatever, you just gonna, you have to talk to your coach.'cause I don't actually think that's great. This whole narrative about let the kids talk to the coach, parents stay out of it. I would say absolutely not, because this is an authority dynamic, you know? And they don't know how to talk to somebody who has control over their playing time. And I don't know if we're gonna get into the whole coaching thing, but there's so many bad coaches out there now that sports has blown up. People that don't understand how to coach, let alone coach kids, coach youth. And so we often were right there with them, like, you wanna send an email, copy us so that they know that we're aligned with you. You know, do you want to, do you want us to go with you to have this conversation? And just so they felt like we had their back no matter what. And also we were gonna push them, you know, to kind of be their best and to show up and to try and to just put the effort out. Yeah. We, we pushed them. And I think one of the things that, that I noticed kind of sadly is that how often they had. Like bad coaches, um, and even my friends who had kids, like they would often share stories of coaches that would squash their spirit or use shame, fear, blame, like just horrific things. And I've started researching it a little bit over the years, like on TikTok and Instagram. And if you were to search like toxic coaching, you see all these stories and, you know, reels and of parents and or kids that say, yeah, I loved this sport, but I quit. You know, I love the sport, but I quit. Not because they weren't good, not because of, but because of the coach.

Quincy 45:43

Mm-hmm.

Lorri 45:43

And so we always just stayed really present to let our kids know that we will help you through and navigate, you know, the difficulties with a coach, which is an authority. We'll help you learn how to talk to them. We'll help you think about kind of the best way to say it, but, and we'll also hold'em accountable. You know, like we will be the first to say you need to get in shape, or you, you know, might need to do this thing. Or did you go hard and get that rebound? Or did you get up early and go where like you didn't, you know, so. Complain. Mm-hmm. So I think as parents, we want to be able to hold both. We of course, want our kids to know we're an advocate for them, but it doesn't help if we're an advocate for them blindly and feed them like misinformation. If they're not putting in the work, we don't wanna tell'em like, you should be on the court because that doesn't help them. But if we can notice and say like, okay, you've been putting in the work. You played pretty well. Let's go ask what do you need from me, coach? What else would you like to see so I can get some playing time? I think those conversations as parents would need to help our kids, you know, we need to facilitate those with our kids because the power differentials, it's intense for the kids and the coaches. It really, especially now more than ever.

Quincy 46:46

At our school, girls volleyball is really, really big. Yeah. True. So in in the middle school that she go goes to, there's, plus or minus about 300 kids.

Lorri 46:55

Mm-hmm.

Quincy 46:56

60 girls tried out for volleyball for this season. Wow. Which is the biggest they've ever had. And this is just middle school?

Lorri 47:03

Yeah.

Quincy 47:03

It's mostly seventh and eighth. Only two sixth graders, but last year it was more than half of the seventh graders and, uh, or sixth graders rather in seventh and eighth. Mm-hmm. So it obviously, it flip flopped a little bit, but they offered some private lessons before it started. And I encouraged to Go. Mm-hmm. She did. And she loved it.'cause she got one-on-one time with one of the coaches and things like this. And she said, the first thing, she said, after the first one, does this mean I'm gonna be on the team?

Lorri 47:30

Oh yeah.

Quincy 47:31

And I was like, that doesn't mean it, but it did show her that you are committed, that you came out on a Sunday morning at nine o'clock in the morning, you were ready to play, you were on time, you know, all of these things. So how do you continue to like mentor your kids when there's opportunities like this when they're, like you said, when they're tired and they

Lorri 47:50

mm-hmm.

Quincy 47:50

Need a day off or things like that. How do you keep giving them that morale boost to show them that this is really good for you? And even if it's, I mean, she's not gonna play it in college or whatever, that's not her trajectory.

Lorri 48:00

Mm-hmm.

Quincy 48:01

But she just loves it. So much that I want her to enjoy it, to its full.

Lorri 48:06

Yeah. The, I think you mentioned like recovery need a day of recovery. I think the first thing to recognize is that our, our kids are going, you know, 11 days in a row because that's not healthy, right? That's not good planning, that's not good design. And especially if they're trying to do two different sports and they go, you know, volleyball right into soccer right, into whatever it is, and they never get a break. And that is not healthy for our kids. And so I think that's one thing is to kinda look at the schedule from a big picture and make sure, are they getting a chance to sleep in, to relax, to have a Saturday afternoon and do nothing? Or is it always sports, sports, sports sport. I mean, I bet you many, you know, I, how many parents of athletes listen to your podcast, but so many parents with kids, it's 24 7 all year round. You know, their sport. And usually now it's one sport. They've been fed this lie that you have to do one sport or you're not gonna get a scholarship. So not true, right? But, so I think there's a part of making sure they have the recovery. Then to be able to say like, you know what you had this was, you had Sunday, today's Monday you need to get up and go and kinda continue to talk with them about how are they doing physically, how are they doing mentally? And then encourage them to like, but you, you know, you wanted to do this. This is what it means to show up. And I'll even sometimes say, you know, it's, it's not, I said, this isn't the best story, but you're gonna have a bad boss. Mm-hmm. So you're sadly a lot of these bad coaches are helping prepare our kids for the bad managers and bosses are gonna have, that's not the most awesome, you know, kind of reality, but it's true. But I think just being more present and aware of the situation with the kids and their sport experience, like for volleyball, my daughter played club volleyball for a while too, and she, did well and got she was kind of late to volleyball. They do these tryouts. Honest to God, these kids, she got asked, you get invited, like, you know, you get, I don't remember the word, you get invited to be on a particular club team, you know what I mean? You get offered like an offered a spot. You got these 12, 13, and 14-year-old kids leaving tryouts, sobbing because instead of making the twos, they made the threes. And now they think, or instead of making the offering, the ones, the top team, they make the two. And they think that their career is, they're just, they're never going to play again. Their life's over. I mean, they're sobbing. And the crazy thing is, I was witnessing this'cause I is like, all the parents know this is horrible. Nobody, we keep doing it. We keep paying the seven grand to play club volleyball at the minimum, not even including travel.

Quincy 50:28

Mm-hmm.

Lorri 50:28

And we keep watching our kids, mentally be taxed and anxious and lose their love of sport and have to do too much. It's, and we don't do anything about it. And I think that's, you know, over the next maybe, I don't know, five, 10 years, like it'll be interesting to see what happens. Maybe it's just gonna continue. But there was a great book, I dunno who it's called, it's called Never Enough. And it came from on the heels of that scandal, the admission scandal. Mm-hmm. Or remember that mm-hmm. When all those parents like pretend to get their kids, it wasn't so much athlete driven, but to get their kids into these schools.

Quincy 50:59

Right.

Lorri 50:59

And the, the author interviewed kids and they're like, I just watched my mom. I would've been okay with me being me. Mm-hmm. I always felt like if I didn't make the ones, if I didn't make, you know, if I wasn't all League, then I, I wasn't okay. Like, they loved me because of my output. And how horrible is that?

Quincy 51:17

Yeah. That's detrimental.

Lorri 51:20

Yeah.

Quincy 51:20

Basically.

Lorri 51:21

And the sad thing I think is that we do get sucked in.

Quincy 51:24

Yeah.

Lorri 51:24

We get sucked into the sport world, and especially if we were athletes before and we feel like, but everybody's doing it, so you have to do it. I mean, I've, I've gotten sucked into it too.

Quincy 51:33

And now it's even more glorified. Because we are, like you said, women's sports is really blowing up and things like that. And now with the hockey. Thing on Netflix and things like that. Yeah. Like the women's hockey players and you know, obviously'cause we're both very gay and love sports. That's like in our Instagram feed. Yeah, yeah. This lesbian one and this gay guy one and this, you know, and you're just like yes.

Lorri 51:55

Yeah.

Quincy 51:56

But at the same time, how do you then, as a coach for coaches, how are you helping these coaches learn this and do you meet with the parents mm-hmm. And the coaches too, and say, for your particular child, are you, is it more like a group thing? Mm-hmm. We, we are proud of our athletes. Absolutely. And it is very glorified and turns into some monetary success as well. Mm-hmm. But how do you come back to like the whole child experience? Yeah. With your coaches.

Lorri 52:23

I think it's even being willing to take a look as a coach and ask yourself. If the goal is two things, you know, high performance for sure. You mean, you know, higher levels, varsity club, high level club. You want to perform, you want to go win winning's fun, right? So you want to perform at your best, but you also want it to be a good experience, right? Because we know that the good experience is gonna then nurture work ethic and team and all the things, attitude, all the things that we know sports is so beautiful at developing. And so you can look at this and say, okay, if I go, you know, four hours a day in the summer, six days a week, is that really giving me the max performance? If I went 2.5 hours, you know, five days a week or four days a week, and maybe did some team building, like could I still get the same result of performance and chill out a little bit, like it doesn't have to be all this all sport and you can't do anything else. I think if we looked at and started to question what we're telling ourselves about, well, we have to do this or else we won't win. Like, that's not true. Actually, if we, sometimes less is more'cause they'll recover. You know, we've got kids, I've got my, my daughter's, classmates. They're just, they're exhausted. I mean, they're literally, and not just at our school, but you know, you're depleted physically, you're depleted mentally because they're trying hard to get, you know, good grades and do academics. They start school at say eight 30, then they go to practice, they come home, have hours at home. I mean, these kids, as we know, they're going from like maybe up at seven or whatever time they're getting to bed at 11, 11 30, and then they wake up, rinse, repeat. And no world is that if, if I coach adults, I would say, you gotta change your schedule. But yet we're letting our kids do it. And so I think coaches can start noticing like, we can do things differently. Maybe there's a way to do something fun, do some team building. Maybe there's a way to, you know, give them a day off or invite them to just do a different kind of practice or make it an hour or really prioritize sleep and eating well.'cause that's also gonna play a big factor as opposed to what we think is leading to high performance. Because it probably isn't in the same way that you think it is.

Quincy 54:26

And with girls not eating like they should.

Lorri 54:28

Yeah.

Quincy 54:29

Right. So you're going and I see this'cause I volunteer at the school and I see them not eat

Lorri 54:34

right

Quincy 54:34

lunch. Right. Or they eat, like they come up and they order a Perrier water.

Lorri 54:38

Right, right.

Quincy 54:38

And an apple.

Lorri 54:39

Yeah.

Quincy 54:39

And I'm like, I know you have soccer or tennis or whatever after this. How is that sustaining you? Right. Like how, and I've asked my daughter a few times, is there like snack mom. For practice.

Lorri 54:52

Right.

Quincy 54:53

So that you guys can get some protein,

Lorri 54:54

Exactly.

Quincy 54:55

You know, I'll chop up some chicken and drive up there and throw everyone a piece of cheese

Lorri 54:58

yeah.

Quincy 54:59

It's something to keep these girls realizing that they have to fuel their body and their muscles to be performance athletes that they wanna be, that their parents want them to be. Yep. And there's so many parents pushing them to be in sports, like you said, 24 7, because they think it's gonna keep them from getting in trouble. Right. But if you mentally fry your kids

Lorri 55:17

Right, that's what's happening. Yeah.

Quincy 55:18

They're not gonna be good at anything.

Lorri 55:20

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they'll stay outta trouble, but then they're gonna be, anxious and they're gonna have a sense of self that's attached to performance and they're not gonna feel loved unconditionally for who they are. I mean, so you're just creating a whole different kind of trouble,

Quincy 55:31

yeah. And how, how are we gonna stop that? What is the conversation that I could even have with some of my friends? Mm-hmm. And say. Hey.'cause I have said to them before, they're probably just really tired.

Lorri 55:42

Yeah.

Quincy 55:42

Can't they just take a day off? And a lot of the kids are preparing for their bat mitzvahs this year. Yeah. At our school. Especially here in LA'cause it's such a huge Jewish population. Like these girls and boys are pushed to the max.

Lorri 55:56

Yeah. I mean, I think it's tough because it, you know, it would start like at a, a principal or a head of school or something that could then tell the athletic director who tells the coaches. It could be the parents talking to the coaches to say, Hey, can we map out a schedule that works? Like, and having willing to have more conversations that then lead to some changes in the schedule. And I think it's. Talking with coaches, you know, in advance. But the hard part, which is this is where it's a bind for parents, is that a coach will say like, well, sure if, but if she doesn't show up, well then she's not gonna play. And then you're really stuck. So part of the education needs to be with the coaching, and or the program manager of these club teams to tell the coaches, Hey, this is the, you know, the max we're gonna do and really prioritize these kids' mental health. And to realize that the narratives we're saying, unless we do this, this, and this, then we won't be the top team and we won't get scholarships. Like, that's not true. It's just not true. You know, so we're operating on these kind of beliefs that fuel this kind of incessant practice and performance and, and competition schedule that is, it's not, the narratives aren't true. So we just have to like, at some point we need to break the system and disrupt it. And you know, my daughter was lucky in volleyball. She had this great coach and he called himself the Ted lasso volleyball coaching, which he was amazing. Like one of the best coaches I think she's played for. And he was really about them developing and having a good time. And the amazing thing is they, they did amazing. I mean, they were, you know, like a particularly ranked team and beat some of the higher ranked team just because it was less pressure and more fun. And they were free to just sort of be, you know, without that angst of having to, you know, live up to the ones team and, you know what I mean, reputation. And so they played a lot better

Quincy 57:38

and the consequence of losing wasn't so drastic. It was like,

Lorri 57:42

yeah, so then they didn't lose. Wow. Do you know what I mean? Like all of a sudden the consequence. So there wasn't so much pressure. They were, they enjoyed each other as a team. They had fun playing volleyball and they actually, they won a ton.

Quincy 57:52

Wow.

Lorri 57:53

I think to this day, she might say this season has been pretty fun for, as a senior, but she might say that has probably the most fun she's ever had in sport. I, I would bet.

Quincy 58:00

That is so great.

Lorri 58:01

Yeah.

Quincy 58:01

That is so great. So what made her then not stay with volleyball and focus more on basketball?

Lorri 58:06

Well, that's tough one. I mean, you know, she loved basketball. She's loved basketball forever. She's quite good at it. She's great at volleyball too, but I think she came, I don't know, it just kinda the way she, she kind came late to volleyball. And she really loves playing basketball, so she loves'em both. I think she would've done, she could've done, kinda continued with both. But definitely loves, loves playing basketball.

Quincy 58:26

So when she comes home from practice, does she still like, shoot baskets in the driveway or back?

Lorri 58:30

Well, but sometimes it, it's like eight o'clock at, you know, nine o'clock at night and it's time to eat something, do homework. She'll take the dogs on a walk, you know, but sometimes she would, she'll like, go to the garage, just, dribble the ball or, you know, go out with the dogs and, and like do, do a walk with them, just kind of walk off the, you know, just the night or whatever. So, yeah. And we'll, we'll sometimes on weekends we'll go to get shots up and, you know, she'll do that a lot on the off days. Oh,

Quincy 58:52

that's so cute.

Lorri 58:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Quincy 58:53

So she chooses basically she'll continue her training after hours. There's no pressure for her to, from the coaches or, or even from you to like, go to the weight room or anything like that.

Lorri 59:06

You know? They do. They're in season now and it's so again, it's, it's so built out. Like they're, they don't have any deficits. Mm-hmm. I mean, if, the one thing that I har on her on is eating and sleeping. Yeah.'cause again, it's like a Boba doesn't cut it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that's not in that like, so what are you gonna eat this protein? Mm-hmm. You know, let's get to sleep, let's make sure you're rested. Like all those things. But they're program, she's a part of a really great basketball program, and so they've got training and they've got, they, you know, go early on a game day and get shots up and do scouting report, you know, so in season it's pretty much dialed in for her and then outta season. Yeah. Her coach does say, like, you, you know, you gal should be getting shots up. G should be jumper open. You know, they'll tell them what they need to do to be better, and then it's up to them to do it. Right.

Quincy 59:45

That's so cute. I love that.

Lorri 59:47

Yeah.

Quincy 59:47

I love that part. I'm so excited. So when you talk about what the coaches need to learn and how to disseminate that to them, do you think that your practice right now, which seems like it's really thriving in the community, which is our community mm-hmm. Lesbian community, do you feel like you'll get the opportunity to sort of go around and do like mentorship coaching to coach coaching groups? Or is it something you're already starting to do?

Lorri 1:00:10

Yeah, I, I do some, it's more, um, kind of word of mouth. I haven't put a lot of, I don't have a lot of content out about it. I mean, about coaching, I mean, I kind of have some ideas about maybe offering like a coaching course or a course for parents. Right now I'm so kind of locked into the leadership stuff and the relationship stuff with the lesbian community that that's keeping me really busy and I'm loving that. But I love athletics too. So, you know, it's, it's always been a thought, which is I wonder how I could create something to help kind of educate, whether it's, you know, young coaches, educate young coaches, educate parents, you know, on the whole kind of path to college. And understanding some of that with NIL now, you know, there's so much information out there and there with social media. Kids are seeing other kids post things and thinking they're behind or oh my gosh. And I think we just need to get educated and understand the landscape a little better. And then help coaches maybe think about how they can craft a more healthy culture, you know, and compatibility and cohesion on their team, you know, what that could look like, yeah. I mean, it's, there's so much opportunity, it's, it's more of like a, a side part of what I do Yeah. Right

Quincy 1:01:15

now. Awesome. So this is the last question of this episode. Okay. But since the Super Bowl was just on Sunday

Lorri 1:01:21

Yes.

Quincy 1:01:21

And the Seahawks did win.

Lorri 1:01:23

Yes, it did.

Quincy 1:01:23

With the four women that sort of. Orchestrated that whole win in my eyes, I think it's the perfect culmination to everything that's happened over the last year

Lorri 1:01:33

mm-hmm.

Quincy 1:01:33

That they won. How do you feel the players knowing the legacy that they stepped into, either they were new players or players that had stayed on the team or whatever mm-hmm. After, the original coach passed away

Lorri 1:01:47

mm-hmm. And sister took over

Quincy 1:01:48

Yes. Mm-hmm. And, and all that kinda stuff. How do you think those women running, that, that team have changed at so that they could win this year, even without the coach they thought they were gonna have this year?

Lorri 1:02:01

Mm-hmm. I mean, I don't, I don't know enough about the inside of it. I've read a little bit, just kind of in, during the Super Bowl, but I do think women have the capacity to lead with less ego. I do think we're better at willing to listen to each other and to communicate. Not always, this is generalized, generalizing. But I think women have the capacity to be open and to be curious and to listen to ideas. And so, and to prioritize. I think some of those pieces, certainly the win, but understanding process along the way, and I think they can then make decisions that will lead to the potential outcome and the win. And so that's one of the, kinda the benefits I think of having a women's lens and women's voice and, and, women on your board or as a part of your C-suite team, is because there is this willingness to, to question, to connect, to communicate differently. And I think there isn't that same knee jerk ego, especially in sport always, as with on the men's side.

Quincy 1:03:00

Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, because I was so happy I read the articles that I wanted to read before at the Super Bowl. So when they won to go to Pull or won the division to go and play at the Super Bowl, I was just like, oh, this is such a beautiful gift. Yeah. Like to their dad.

Lorri 1:03:16

Yeah.

Quincy 1:03:16

To them like how lucky and then they won and I was just thinking to myself, this is perfect.

Lorri 1:03:22

Yeah.

Quincy 1:03:23

More teams need to go. Oh yeah, we should. We should let the women that are, like you said, C-Suite and various other positions like come up to the top and let's see what we can do.

Lorri 1:03:31

Right.

Quincy 1:03:31

So thank

Lorri 1:03:32

for sure to that.

Quincy 1:03:33

Yeah. So amazing. Well thank you for this. Yeah. Everyone stay tuned. We are going to record our second episode shortly. We're gonna take a break. But thank you all for listening and we will catch you next week.

Lorri 1:03:45

Alright, thanks for having me.

Quincy 1:03:46

You're welcome. Thank you all for listening tonight. When you tell the truth in a small town like Lori did, it lingers with you, right? It follows you to the grocery store, into the gym, into rooms where people stop mid-sentence when you walk in. Lori spoke up and it cost her not just a job, but comfort, privacy, the version of her life that would've been easier if she stayed quiet, but as a queer woman. She didn't shrink, and that's what we're sitting with tonight. We'll talk next time about what she built after all of that, but for now, just let it land. Sometimes telling the truth burns and it hurts and it aches for years afterwards, but sometimes it's the only thing that keeps you whole. I'll see you in part two. Have a great night everyone.