Episode 45: Leading From the Second Seat: How Great Leaders Build Trust, Influence, and Presence Without Burnout

What if leadership isn't about being the person at the top?

In this powerful episode of Her BOSS Brain, Pallavi Jain sits down with transformational leadership coach, author, and keynote speaker Patty Hampton to explore what it really means to lead with presence, purpose, and influence—even when you're not the one making the final decisions.

Drawing from more than two decades of leadership experience, Patty shares lessons from her book Leading From the Second Seat and reflects on the invisible emotional labor many leaders carry every day.

Together, they discuss:

• Why so many high-achieving leaders are operating on autopilot
• The hidden impact of pressure on decision-making and leadership effectiveness
• How leaders lose themselves in productivity and performance
• The importance of psychological safety and trust in today's workplace
• What "leading from the second seat" actually means
• Why influence has nothing to do with titles
• The courage required to reinvent yourself and start a new chapter
• How to stop proving your worth and start leading with intention

This conversation is especially relevant for executives, HR leaders, managers, nonprofit leaders, and anyone seeking to create sustainable success without sacrificing themselves in the process.

If you've ever felt exhausted from carrying responsibility, navigating constant change, or trying to have all the answers, this episode offers a refreshing reminder: You don't have to prove your worth to lead powerfully.

About Patty Hampton

Patricia A. Hampton is the Founder and CEO of NousSole Leadership Partners, a leadership consulting and executive coaching firm dedicated to helping leaders lead with greater consciousness, courage, and impact.

A Master Certified Professional Coach, keynote speaker, and author of Leading from the Second Seat, Patty brings more than 20 years of experience in executive search, talent strategy, and leadership development within the social sector.

Learn more about Patty's coaching, speaking, and executive development work at:
www.noussolepartners.com

You can also connect with Patty on LinkedIn and follow her leadership insights and thought leadership content.

Follow Her BOSS Brain – Stress to Success for weekly conversations on leadership, human behavior, and performance under pressure.

To bring this work into your organization: www.pallavi-jain.com
Share your thoughts or questions: herbossbrain@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

If you're a high-achieving woman who's exhausted by stress, stuck in constant conflict, and tired of being overlooked in the exact rooms where you know you were born to lead, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Paul V Jane.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Welcome back to Her Boss Brain, where we explore what it really takes to move from stress to success in real life moments. I'm your host, Pallavy, and today's conversation is for the leaders who are caring a lot. The ones who are dependable, capable, high performing, always holding things together for everyone else while quietly feeling the pressure internally. Because a lot of leaders today are not actually leading consciously. They are surviving leadership. They are performing strength, they are performing certainty, performing composure. And over time, that pressure disconnects people from clarity, presence, and even themselves. My guest today understands this deeply. A dear friend and an outstanding leader, Patty Hampton, joins us today, and she believes most leaders are leaving a mark that they cannot see. And that is the problem. She's the founder and CEO of New Soul Leadership Partners, a master certified professional coach, keynote speaker, and author of the book, Leading from the Second Seat. After more than two decades in executive search and leadership development within the social sector, Patty has seen leadership up close. The good, the unhealthy, the courageous, and the costly. What I appreciate about Patty's work is that she does not approach leadership as performance. She approaches it as consciousness, integrity, and intentional presence. And honestly, I think this conversation is going to resonate with a lot of people who are exhausted from trying to prove themselves while carrying invisible emotional labor every single day. I want to formally welcome you, Patty. Welcome to the show. Of course, and I'm so looking forward to this conversation. So for the listeners, I've known Patty for a very long time. She's a really dear friend, a mentor, and you know, she has shown various ways to several other leaders in her industry how to lead intentionally. So, but since you all don't know her that much, let's start with something personal. Because I think, Patty, you spent decades in leadership NHR before stepping into this new chapter as a coach and author. Was there a specific moment where you realized you didn't want to just keep performing success, but actually redefine what leadership meant for you personally?

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah, so for me, it was a huge blessing, I would say, to partner with someone who saw me, right? And had similar views about the world and about leadership and how do we make a difference? And so that partnership grew over 24 years. And I served in a second seat, and it was such a wonderful position that it allowed me to see more and do more. I'm of the service attitude as a servant leader, and I truly believe that it is the best seat in the world. I always tell people that. But those are the things that I noticed quickly as I grew in the role, right? And so it made a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Very nice. And could you explain for our listeners a little bit what you mean by second seat?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

So, second seat is the name of my first book, leading from the second seat. And I wrote the book towards the end of my, I would say, journey at one of the top firms in the country. And it gives an insight into my faith journey, my purpose, and things that I did not know I was doing as a leader, including influence, being purposeful, serving, and also coaching people, doing things, Pallavi, that I didn't even know I was doing. But then when I wrote the book about it, I was like, huh, I have a lot that I went through as a leader in the social sector, right? Because the idea was that I'm in a talent management uh firm where we provided services, and I got to see so much and also coach people. I was in a leadership role, and so I wrote a book about it. And it's my journey. There's a lot of funny parts in it as well, but it really is truly about serving in an authority role where you may or may not have the final decision, but you give the information so that the people who do need to make the decisions can make those without having to do a survey and you know, figure out what's happening within their culture and within the leadership team, you know. So I served as, I want to say I served as that conduit, the person who had enough information that I could be dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Well, wonderfully dangerous. But I would say, you know, I want to pivot a little bit because you and I have talked about this, but I think a lot of high-achieving leaders become incredibly good at holding everything together externally while internally running on that pressure and autopilot, right? So, did you ever experience that disconnect in your own career or before that pivot happened for you?

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, I want to say earlier in my career, it happened. It was like a moment that I had, I call it a slow awakening.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

When you realize that you're doing the metrics, you're nailing leading and leading programs, you're getting the accolade, but I never took time to pause.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

And that's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

And I think so many of us are running and running and running, and I'm no longer sure what people are running for.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah.

unknown 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

You know what I mean? And so you're on autopilot. You're literally on autopilot on a day-to-day basis. But I realized, I would say halfway through my career, yeah, that I needed to pause at certain moments. But I couldn't name it back then, Halabi. I could not name it. But now I see it in other leaders and just reading things, you know, what's happening across the world and leadership, I truly believe there is a transformation happening, and people cannot name it. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

No, that is such an honest confession because I think a lot of us going through that. And what I was going to say is that when you mention that pause and seeing other people running like that, I think when you yourself pause, you can see it much more clearly because you're not part of that kind of that you know craziness. And honestly, what you know, what you said, I see this so often with the leaders that I'm working right now because on paper they look incredibly successful. They have respected careers, strong titles, achievement after achievement, but internally they are disconnected and they're exhausted, they're constantly operating in this pressure mode. So I often feel like sometimes success externally and alignment internally are very different things, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:14

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah. So some of the strongest leaders are carrying this enormous invisible emotional labor, being the stabilizer, the peacemaker, the dependable one, kind of, you know, also leading from that second seed that you mentioned. So, what have you seen that kind of pressure do to people over time?

SPEAKER_03 8:37

So I think they lose themselves in the moment. So if you're, I think you mentioned earlier, if you're a high achieving leader, and yes, you are incredibly good. Absolutely you are, right? But if you're that high achieving leader, you're experiencing what I like to call a disconnect. At some point, you are in a disconnect with what you're delivering, the results. Sure, the passion is there. And, you know, I was that leader who could walk into a room and be fully present and solution focused, but people felt safe around me. And so there's this, I don't want to say, there's this gift that you carry with yourself, and it's charisma. Some people call it charismatic leader and all of that. I saw people for who they truly are. And I think when we are that high-performing leader, we lose ourselves. We're always about the next success and what does that mean? And you know, we have a board that you have to report to, right? Yes. And so it means a lot if you just realize that you're not fully present.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah. So there are two questions that come to mind as you were talking about this and I was listening to you. One, what you mentioned, you saw something in people that others sometimes don't, or you know, you saw the potential. And I will attest to that because I know I've told you, but I think I want to say this in front of all the people today that when I started my journey a few years ago, Patty saw the potential before anybody else did. And she supported me. She was there, she was like, you're building something that organizations critically need. And it's amazing too. I remember your words. You said that you know, you were proud of me to have the conviction and the confidence and also belief that I could do that, right? Because it's hard to break out of that conventional ways of doing things and pausing and actually pivoting. So I have seen that firsthand. You do that and so gracefully. And the second thing you mentioned was you said that people, the leaders lose themselves, or what impact does that have on the business? Because I think businesses are not realizing, some of them, well, some of them are, but some of them are still not realizing.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

When a leader loses himself or herself, it's not just an individual problem. So, could you, as a leader, being in this industry for so long, like how does that impact an organization?

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Yeah, so that's a great question. And I want to go back to something that I know what you focused on too, Pahlavi. And you talk about the nervous system. I know nothing about that.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

But I do know that when people are under sustained pressure, yeah, and you're like you were saying, I think I listened to an earlier podcast, and you talk about the nervous system that it is constantly activated. And so you are now being more reactive. You say yes to things that don't really align with your values because you're in what I call survival mode. Yes. That's the bad place to be. And I don't like to use the word bad, but it's not a good place to lead from, is probably the best way to say it. And this doesn't show up as obvious burnout at first, right? It shows up as leaders who stop asking questions. If you've ever been in a meeting and you realize, I'm sorry, is this not your meeting? And the leader is stop asking, they just stop asking questions. And so they stop advocating for the culture, the people. And in my eyes, you are now compromising your integrity in small ways that really can compound, right? Because that pressure reveals who you really are.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

And I think people do it and they don't really see it.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Right? And so that's the same pressure changes who people become. And that is happening right now in many organizations. There's so much coming at us from the economy to AI to so much. And for some reason, Blau, leaders think they have to capture it all in one big bucket. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

No, absolutely true.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Focus on one thing at a time.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah, and I think there's also this culture of just often we are organizations are focusing on that performance metrics while completely ignoring the internal capacity. And I want to point something out here. I've said that multiple times here, but I think it needs to be said again that eventually pressure starts impacting our perception, our decision making, communication, culture, and most importantly, that performance itself was the goal all along. Right? Because, like you said, a leader walks into work carrying pressure from home, from financial stress or conflict or non-stop expectations. And then this leader is spending the entire day regulating everyone else while suppressing their own experience. So eventually, kind of the nervous system that you mentioned, it starts running the show and they lose control over their own thinking, actions, and decisions, right? So I think that's why it is so critical that organizations really start understanding that this has direct implications of those performance metrics that we all care about.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah, that's right. No, you got that right, Pahlavi. There's something I used to say as I was helping to build a culture for over 23 plus years, right? Yes. And I always saw the person who before COVID would knock on my door, or during COVID, would show up to a Zoom room in a totally different mood. Or, you know, I was that leader who, you know, would say, what is the sentiment around the room, the Zoom room today? Right. And it could be that one person who said this off word, and I'm the girl who's gonna follow up later to figure out, oh, I heard your one word, right? And so I'm of the mindset that you have to be so cognizant of the people that you lead and that you're listening. I know it's called active listening. Our folks do not come to work and leave everything at the door, like they just don't. They are living and breathing all kinds of things happening in the background, right? Whether you're in person, hybrid, or in a Zoom room, as a leader, we actually were all challenged during COVID. Remember that? Yeah, and you had to do things differently. And there's a mindset of if you tap into who you are internally, that's what matters. Because when you stop being human and you just need to get through a meeting, that's a problem, you know?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

That's when that connection breaks, right? And without connection, you really cannot create that team camaraderie and culture that we all are just writing as buzzwords on the slides at this point.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

So that's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

You know, so your book, and you have mentioned this a little bit before about you know leading from that second seat and how you were dangerous without having, you know, have actually have that power of that final decision. So your book talks about that leading from the second seat. So, what do people misunderstand about leadership when they assume influence only comes from being the person at the top?

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Yeah, so the best way to describe it is you have influence from no matter what seat you sit in. I don't care if you're the emerging leader or you are the second right hand to the CEO, or you're still serving from a second seat when you are the president and CEO, when you are the executive director reporting to the board.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

And so I think people need to realize that there is a lot of authority, not to abuse it, but there is influence. How do you influence an organization, the people, to move in a direction that you know they need to move in, right? It starts with trust. Yeah, you have to get these folks to trust you. So if you just skip right over the human parts of individuals, then they'll look at you awkward and say, I'm sorry, did you not hear what I just said? I'm not present today or something, right? And so I think it's really important for leaders to, I call it psychological safety. Yes, right? And if you're not creating trust and making sure that people are safe when they're talking to you and you're checking in on their sentiments and things like that, there's tension that is going to happen. Yeah, and that is not a good place to lead from, but yeah, there's so much in the book around my personal lived experience. I just wrote about them and I said, this is how I operated as a leader, and I'm still doing that today, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, share one of those moments with our listeners today, any one of them that you think you want to share. Yeah. Personal or professional.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Yeah, so there is one that actually is in the book, and it's like you go back on what you believe to be true, right? Yes, yes. So I landed in a six-figure job. I will not mention the organization, but I knew it was time to go after 10 months. Pallabi, I'm not kidding, 10 months. Everything was happening in my body to the point that I was nine months in, and I just kept saying, I cannot do this. Like this culture is truly off. Wow. But I was there for that 10 months, and the day that I knew I was going to resign, I said, you know how we bargain with you know our faith. Yes. And I said, let me go in here. And I had my answer last night, Pilabi. Right. I had my answer last night, but I get up the next morning and I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna go in here and I'm gonna ask the CEO if I can report to you, then I'll stay. Okay. And so he I looked at him and I could tell this was like a waste of my time.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

And he said, Patty, I can't do it. And I said, Hmm, tell me why. And he said, Well, the board already knows what every leader is going through, and I can't do anything about it right now, but I will have to, you know, figure this out within three to six months. I paused and I looked at him, and with all the fear inside me running rampant, right? I said, Don't compromise, don't compromise, don't compromise. Yeah, and I said, Well, today I'm giving you my month's notice that I will need to resign. Yeah, and that's what happens, right? Yes, and I had to trust myself enough to know that this does not feel right. This right, and I've done what I came here to do, and I have one person getting in my way, yeah, right, and the board knew, but the board wasn't going to do a termination, and I'm here recommending a termination, basically. But I didn't just say it, I'm just like, there's one person getting in the way of the entire leadership team. This person needs to go, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, and so with everything in me, when I heard that no, but Palavi, when I went into the room, I knew it was going to be a no.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yes, but you still gave it a fair shot, right? You did intentionally, you didn't make any assumptions. You were like, Okay, I love the question you asked, and tell me why, right? Because sometimes we make those assumptions, and our own inner dialogue writes the story, which is the Whole point of you know actually asking the question, and then you were sure they were not like later you would regret, oh, did I make the right decision? Did I not make the right decision? You were sure in that moment because you asked the question and the response you got was not in alignment with what worked for you in that moment. So that's a great, great example. Thank you so much. And and I think a lot of people in the second seat become those emotional shock absorbers of organizations also sometimes, because they're carrying pressure quietly while trying to keep everything functioning, right? And I feel like our middle managers are also kind of in that category because they are often kind of stuck in the middle. So, was that part of what inspired the book for you? Was it your own journey, or also seeing a lot of other people who were in these positions? What really inspired you to write the book?

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yeah, so my inspiration really came from just lived experiences throughout my career, right? Okay, and I kept saying to myself, there's gotta be more to leading from a seat where you have authority. I even had authority to make decisions. I didn't have to ask permission, right? So I want to say, because of the authenticity that I grew up with, right? I've always been authentic. You know this about me. I don't care that I'm gonna hurt your feelings. I'm not here to make you feel comfortable. And I grew up that way, right? And so I never really asked permission to do anything. And the book shows how brave one person can be in certain situations because it's all my life journey as I was growing to become this leader, right? And there's stories where I had to look back, and I'm just like, wow, I used to work for an orthopedic surgeon, and I couldn't understand why his own nurse assistant afraid of him. So it's stories like that, and just being brave enough to speak on behalf of other people. And I said, Oh, you're afraid to call the surgical desk, and Dr. Carpenter is over there, and I'm sorry, he has a room full of patients waiting, right? Like, oh, let me just call over there for you. Like, I'm not calling, you call. It was things like that. I wrote about in the book. And there were people I always ran into that they just weren't brave enough to say certain things. And gone are the days where you're asking for permission. Just do it, just do it, feel the fear, right? We've heard that before. Feel the fear and do it anyway. I don't think leaders should ask for permission. And the book is actually focused on my journey. But if you read deep enough, there is lots of nuggets in there that tell you how to lead just through my stories. Because at the end of every chapter, there's a reflection, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I know that.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

And so you write your own reflection and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

That's beautiful. And I've realized that you know, this leadership presence is not just about communication skills. People feel the, you know, they feel whether someone is grounded, reactive, defensive, rushed, or intentional. Our teams can feel that, right? Yeah. So in your experience, and you have used these words, you know, a few minutes ago, what separates leaders who create trust and psychological safety from leaders who unintentionally they are creating this tension and exhaustion around them?

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

So what really separates this and how what impact does that have on our teams?

SPEAKER_03 26:05

So it really comes down to, I think we said it earlier about presence versus pressure, right? And so leaders who know how to create psychological safety, some of them do not, because they have their own inner lived experiences that they're dealing with, whether it's trauma or PTSD, it doesn't matter. So some leaders, I hate to be cruel, but don't need to be leaders because they're dealing with so much that they haven't really resolved, right? And so as leaders, we have to create this safety, I don't want to say safety net, but it's a psychological safety that grounds you as a person, right? And they're not performing, but people can be themselves because they're showing up and you're not judging that happening, right? There's no hidden agenda, right? You know very well that people show up to their performance review, and it sounds like it's not gonna go so well, right? Well, there's a hidden agenda if they didn't know that a week before, two weeks before, like why all of a sudden people wait for a whole year to give feedback? Well, you just screwed up the whole psychological safety now because the person sitting in front of you never heard you say half the things you just explained. And so leaders they create this tension.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, and that's such a great example. Yeah, that's such a great example that you give because I think that happens to a lot more managers and leaders. And you and I, you know, being in HR, we have seen this way too many times than we wanted to. But you know, now I understand also why some of those times that is not happening. Because kind of what you just said, that they're so overwhelmed and exhausted themselves that they don't have the capacity to have those difficult conversations or hold people accountable at the right time. And they're waiting till the last minute when they absolutely have to, because now their neck is on the line. Because if they don't do it, then it reflects bad on them. And then they try to do all of that, and then some of them would even write it in their write-up, but they would not actually address it. The person reading to it is like, oh, the meeting was okay, but my rating is so low, and all these things are in my review. Right. So I think again, we are not connecting the two pieces, they're pieces of the same puzzle. It's because we are not teaching these leaders and managers to actually first take the self-agency, be accountable, and actually have the courage in that moment to have the difficult conversation. Because difficult conversation doesn't have to be emotional if you are centered yourself. If you know you have the agency of how you want to respond, then it doesn't matter if the other person is getting over-emotional or overreacting, right? You can create that calm and presence for them. And that's really, you know, my experience where I remember those leaders when I talk to such leaders had a great impact on me, right? Because they created that space for me where I could be raw, where I could respond in a way which may have not been like, you know, professionally 100% how it needed to be. But I knew that I could say how I felt in the moment and then say, okay, I understand your perspective now and sorry for that reaction.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Okay with that, right? Because they knew that, you know, they had that again presence to understand the dynamics. But if we are not building that capacity in leaders and managers, and we're just assuming that if they are competent and they're smart, they'll just handle that part on their own. It doesn't work that way. It's that's right, it's an inner capacity that we have to build. Some of us do it naturally because of our experiences, but most of us don't.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Right. And I think you bring up such a good point, Lavi, that people who can't provide that psychological safety don't have it within themselves because they don't feel safe. And so they create this tension within their group that doesn't need to be there. And to me, you and I both know that is a sign that someone needs coaching.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, so let's come back to your journey because I know this was a pivotal moment, and you and I connected during this time. So moving across the country and starting this second inning, so to say, professionally takes courage and clarity. So, what did reinvention teach you about identity, self-worth, and your own leaderships?

SPEAKER_03 31:08

So I don't want to get emotional about this, Plovy, but I will tell you that it was almost like a reinvention of myself, right? So there's a reinvention that shattered my own identity. I was holding on to who I wanted to be and continue to be, because again, you have to remember where I came from. I got lost a little bit, right? Before I started working with the firm that I ultimately left anyway. But there was so much of what I thought was me was actually just what I did. It was the day to day, the over and over. And I lost my identity when I stepped away from the role, or I had so many roles, but when I stepped away from that particular role, the title, I had to really sit with who am I? Yeah, who am I? And that was the real question that I'm even asking still today, not who I am. I know who I am because I moved across the country. I made another attempt, if you will, to really focus on just being the person that I wanted to be for myself, right? And so just building my own firm after you know leaving another firm, and it's still a journey, right? And so my worth had been, you know, sort of led by I hate to say this, people are thinking I'm crazy, but it's productivity. Productivity was my success. Well, that just sounds crazy.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Because that's what gives you meaning for what you are doing, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Right. And it was my ability to solve problems, and I was just like, hmm, it took reinvention to realize my worth isn't tied to what I produce. That is a huge piece that you have to sit in. You have to sit with that for a little bit. And so leadership taught me that it's not a destination. Leadership is not a destination, right? And so I said it's a practice. This is something that you practice every single day, and it's done in the small ways, big ways, the little things. It doesn't require a title. Leadership doesn't require a title. Internally, there's courage, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

We all have courage, and it's always, you know, facing something that's fearful as well. And so you have enough courage. And it wasn't for me, it wasn't about being fearless. It was more about just being honest with myself, right? I love your program when you talked to me originally about lead from within, right? Yeah, it is about myself and who I am before I can help anyone else. And that's what I needed. And so that's when I say it was like moving across the country was almost like a reinvention of me stepping back and looking forward. What did I build? And I built a lot, right? But it made a difference to just step back. And I keep going back to the word pause because as leaders, we don't do that enough. We don't pause. We for some reason there's something in us, we just keep going. Yeah. And you have to have enough courage to just say, oh, I'm moving across the country, something's gonna happen, right? And you know me, um, spiritually grounded. Yes, I knew what had to happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

And so I'm so happy for you. So for what you are building now for you know, it's five years. Can you believe that? No, it's crazy. And time just flies. So, you know, the sustainable leadership that we're talking about, and I know it's so easy to get again into those old patterns, old way of thinking, getting back into that rat race and you know, just performance, performance. So, how do you ground yourself now in this moment after you've had a time to reflect, pause, and then you know, reignite some of the things that truly matter to you? How do you do that? That you stay grounded to and without losing kind of yourself again?

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah, that's a great question. So, one of the things that I do a lot is I journal. I have a grateful journal, I have a to-do journal, right? So anything that you think is urgent isn't urgent. Yeah, it's just not. And so for me, it's just taking time to look at the current situation and just stay grounded. And I don't feel frantic like I used to, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:35

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

And it's such a great place, it's like leading from joy, you're leading from a place of joy, a place of service, because the person in front of you needs you in that moment, and if you yourself are healthy and internally, right, then that means that you now are in a position to help someone else move forward.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, that's so beautiful, and I think this is such an important distinction because sustainable success requires that inner courage, that internal capacity, that self-awareness, and making those conscious choices, right? Not just endurance. So Patty, before we close, I would love for people to learn more about your work because I think this conversation is going to resonate deeply with leaders who are realizing that they want to lead more consciously and intentionally. So, would you mind sharing a little bit about your work, who you help and work with today, and how can people reach out to you?

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah, thank you. So I am the founder and CEO of New Soul Leadership Partners. New Soul stands for wisdom and being distinct, right? And you can find me at New Soul Partners, N-O-U-S, capital S O L E Partners.com. And I provide coaching support to board members looking to hire. I don't do executive search anymore, which is another was a passion of mine. Yes, but they can find me there. I'm also on LinkedIn as well, and also Instagram too.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Awesome. And we'll have Patty's details, her website in the show notes as well. So if you want to find it there, you all can find it. And now one last question for you, Patty, before we close is if someone listening today they feel exhausted from carrying so much responsibility or trying to prove themselves all the time, what would you want them to remember?

SPEAKER_03 38:51

So the exhaustion that people feel probably right now is not a character flaw. And I really want people to hear that. It's not because you're not strong enough. I'm not saying that. It's because you've been carrying something that you were never meant to carry alone. And some of us forget that. We have what I like to call partners, you know? And so the proving yourself never ends unless you decide that you're going to end that, right? You don't have to prove that you're enough to anyone, including family members, right? And so if you're exhausted from just trying to prove yourself and chasing something that doesn't exist, again, I will tell people that you and I both said it, is just poems, but take a different path. Have you ever thought about taking a different path to alleviate that exhaustion? And so when I took a joyful journey, I literally started writing the book as well, right? And so I want people to hear me when I say your worth isn't something you have to prove. It just isn't. Deep down, you have to know that as a leader, and people who matter most don't need to be perfect. I think we're all struggling with this normalcy or being perfect. They need you as a person to just be you. Try it. It's like try just being you. And if people only value you for what you produce, that's information about those people that's not about your worth, right? And so just stop trying to prove yourself, stop trying to know yourself in a way that just give yourself grace, right? Remember that term, that one word, grace. And it's so much easier to give yourself grace and reach out to people, right? Let people help you. Just say, you know, I need your guidance, I need your help. So you don't have to be in this, what I call a state of exhaustion all the time. And we know leaders carry that, but they're not naming it, Pallavia. Yep, they're not naming what that exhaustion is, and they can name it.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yep, yep. And I think it's also those unrealistic expectations because you have made leaderships as such, that they have to have all the answers. They have it to be have it all together all the time. Whereas I think kind of what you're saying, it creates an opposite impact if they don't, because then they are not explicitly, but they are kind of giving permission to other people to be themselves too, to as how they are. Because I think I truly feel that everybody is feeling this at all levels in the organization. But for leaders, we just have an additional kind of responsibility because our actions don't just impact us, it impacts so many people around us. So it just becomes even more critical for us to really understand what's happening. So I love your insight, I love your call out to, you know, a lot of things that we are doing, and to just pause and just give ourselves grace. So, again, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. Such a powerful and honest conversation. And what I appreciate most is that this conversation reminds us that leadership is not just about, you know, titles or performance or having it all together. It's about awareness, it's about presence. Patty has used the word pause. It is about the impact we leave on people every single day, often in ways we don't even realize, right? And I think that's especially important right now because so many leaders are functioning under this constant change and ambiguity without ever learning how to reconnect to themselves consciously. So if today's episode resonated with you all, I want to encourage you to pause and reflect on this one question, okay? Are you leading consciously or are you simply surviving leadership? Because sustainable success is not built by constantly overriding yourself, it is built by developing this inner capacity to stay clear, intentional, and grounded under today's dynamic work environments. And that is really what it means to activate your boss brain, to be on self-start, to lead from within. And if this conversation spoke to you, share this episode with another leader who may need it, right? And as always, thank you for being here. Thank you again to Patty for joining us and for doing the inner work with all of us and for all of us. And I will see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

So that's it for today's episode of her boss brain podcast. Head on over to Apple Podcasts iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance in a grand prize drawing to win a $25,000 private VIP day with Pollovy herself. Be sure to head on over to her bossbrainpodcast.com and pick up a free copy of Pallovy's gift and join us next time.