Off Grid Down Under by MDC

EP 37 - Why 48V Changes Off-Grid Caravanning Forever | MDC XT MK4 Launch

• MDC Campers and Caravans • Episode 37

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 56:49

The wait is over. MDC has just launched the all-new XT MK4 range — eight models, 14 to 19 feet, and every single one built around a fully integrated Projecta 48V electrical system. This isn't just a power upgrade. It's a fundamentally different way to travel off-grid.

Sam is joined by Shane Easton from Projecta, MDC General Manager James Field, and MDC Founder & Managing Director Vaughan Hindley to break down exactly what 48V means for Australian caravanners — and why it changes everything from how you cook to how long you can stay away from a powered site.

Explore the full XT MK4 range: https://www.marketdirect.com.au/camper-trailers-and-caravans/mk4-offroad-caravans/
Browse the full MDC range at https://www.marketdirect.com.au — and subscribe so you never miss an episode of Off Grid Down Under.
Escape with Confidence — MDC Campers & Caravans

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple Podcasts — search Off Grid Down Under by MDC
📱 Follow MDC:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marketdirectcampers
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mdc_caravans_and_campers/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MDC_AU
📻 Full podcast playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjsVAcWloYAYA64q9ewHGiJ5uhgEGBJYZ

Escape with Confidence

SPEAKER_02

12 volt has been a standard in the off-roading caravanning world for a long, long time. We're now starting to see some big changes.

SPEAKER_04

The customer's expectation of what you would like to run off-grid has changed significantly.

SPEAKER_00

With the 48 volt, I can run my kettle and I can run the induction cooktop at the same time without having to turn the aircon off.

SPEAKER_02

The bigger battery, 48 volt battery, does that take longer to recharge as well?

SPEAKER_04

It's actually the opposite. We wanted to do it properly from the start. We could have easily just rolled our current solar panel spec into the project, but it wasn't going to be the most efficient, the best system we could build.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

If there's one message that you want people to take away around 48 volt systems, what would it be? Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Off-Grid Down Under Podcast brought to you by MDC. Exciting times. We're talking about power today. I'm joined with becoming a regular guest, Mr. Shane Easton from Projector.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like three times in as many months. I know, man. People start talking. There's lots happening.

SPEAKER_02

There's lots going on in the projector world and in the in the electrical space. And that's what we're here to talk about today.

SPEAKER_00

It's been hard to keep quiet about it as well. I know.

SPEAKER_02

I've also got the uh the brains behind the product development, Mr. James Field from our commercial product division. Thank you, Sam. And almost as always, managing director of Vaughn Heinley.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for having me back again, Sam. Really excited today. Like you can see on Shane shirt what this is going to be all about. I love that new shirt, mate. It's got the big 48 volt on the back of it as well.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. I made sure I had a second one to keep it clean just for you guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

We're all about branding here, right? What an exciting time. Look, 12 volt has been a standard in the you know off-roading caravanning world for a long, long time. And we're now starting to see some big changes. We've seen 24 volts that have introduced. I feel like that's kind of been quiet, but um sounds like we're jumping ahead, and we're talking today about 48 volt power systems. But even more excitedly, in our whole new range of off-road caravans. James, what have we just done?

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Sam. So uh yeah, very excited to have released our brand new XT Mark IV range. So uh eight models in this range, ranging from 14 to 19 feet. And as you mentioned before, I guess one of the key features in amongst everything that we've done in the Mark IV evolution is the Projector 48 volt system, which uh we're so excited to have been able to partner with with Projector and and Shane Easton uh around the technicalities of it and integration. Um, a great supply to work with. And going through that project and then learning ourselves as a business how the 48-volt systems work, and then seeing it for ourselves. And Vaughan was with me when we were going through the prototyping, and then actually seeing the product or the the system in play is was genuinely exciting and mind-boggling for us. The the efficiencies, and we'll go on all into all the detail in a minute, but but I couldn't be more excited about a new range.

SPEAKER_02

I I'm excited too, it's very cool. Like I sort of came to the business when the Mark IIIs were just sort of kicking off, and and they were exciting. It was about you know being able to escape for longer, having big power systems, amazing recharging capabilities, ability to use aircon off grid, all those functions. So you sort of think, well, where do you go from here? Where's the next step? Uh Vaughn from a business owner and yeah, the person that signs off on these decisions and changes, what do these Mark IVs look like to you?

SPEAKER_01

Oh mate, they are like the best product we we've ever built. And you always start with the power system, right? People want more solar, more batteries, bigger inverters, um, you know, and from a building a caravan perspective, those things take a lot of weight. But when you start talking around 48 volts, things start to get a little bit lighter. Um, you know, the cable size, the actual inverters themselves. Um you can add more batteries, that adds some more weight, but um, you know, it's all about doing it the right way. Now, the 48 volt chain's been around for a little bit. We've only just jumped on it recently. Um, but you know, in our mind, this is the way forward in the Australian market. 48 volt cutting edge.

SPEAKER_02

We talked we talked about product development with Shane in a previous episode, just been on a couple of months ago, and we're talking about how Projector and MDC work together to come up with the a solution that's going to pair. And I think James, you mentioned the fact we start with what the customer wants and then come up with the system to to meet that. So, what did we have to consider from a Mark IV perspective to then take to Projector and say this is what we're gonna need?

SPEAKER_04

So the Mark IIIs was our first range where we'd gone for things like off-grid air conditioning. Um, and I think the Mark IIIs we did a very good job in that space. But every evolution of a product range, you always want to push the boundaries and you've got to add more. So to do that, a lot of the stuff we looked at at was around weight, but also power consumption because we moved 2023, I think from memory very late 2023 is when we launched the first of our Mark III specification range. And even from then to now, the customer's expectation of what you would like to run off-grid uh has changed significantly. So we needed to look at not just what's trending now, but what electrical system can support uh what we want to add in is going to be relevant for the next 12, 24 months. And we'll go into this a little bit more detail, and I want to talk to Shane obviously more about 48 volt generally. But um I think one of the most exciting things we've also put in the Mark IV system is a four-in-one convection oven, which has like a built-in air frying function. And these kind of things were pipe dreams for us two or three years ago because we were always concerned around how much power consumption would that do? Will we be able to replenish the batteries? Do we have enough battery capacity? But now it's all possible. Induction cooking, air frying as standard, all in the Mark IVs, but supported so seamlessly with the the 48-volt system.

SPEAKER_02

The other thing we were talking about a little earlier too is about uh people wanting to use multiple high current devices at once. You know, I want to have the aircon running while I'm cooking dinner because it's a hot night. You know, that those increased demands are not just having the amp hour capacity, it is about how do you deliver that power. And I think that's where 48 volt kind of steps in. And Shane's going to allude to that probably in a bit more detail. But Shane, for the people who haven't seen the previous podcasts, yeah, what's your role and projector? And um yeah, tell us a bit about the the 48-volt system, how it's come about?

SPEAKER_00

My role and projector's varied over the years. If you watch the previous episodes, it's a bit of a deep dive into who I am and what I've done. But the last 18 months or so has been effectively a phase four projector in the caravan and RV scene surrounding power management and helping manufacturers such as MDC spec out the right system for the customers themselves. So that's primarily where I am now. And when it comes to 48 volts, I mean, I could I could go down the rabbit hole here and I could bore you endlessly for hours. I mean, I'm an Uber nerd when it comes to this sort of stuff. But to keep it simple, um, probably the biggest thing around 48 volt is it's not as complex as what people actually think. The 48-volt battery is the 48-volt source and the only 48-volt thing within the system. Everything else is 240 volt, everything else is 12 volt. You've still got your same solar levels, your DC levels, so you're charging, I should say, which is still a 12-volt feed from your vehicle. So it's not as scary or as complicated as what people perceive it to be. Is it going to zap me harder if I play with it?

SPEAKER_01

It's actually DC, right? So still zap as well.

SPEAKER_00

Above 60 volts, DC will still give you a zap. I can attest to this because I've tried to try that though. Let's not let's not play with that.

SPEAKER_01

So it's not like a nine-volt battery can put your tongue across it, probably blow your tongue apart.

SPEAKER_00

Everything's protected in such a way, unless you are deliberately trying to do something stupid, i.e. sticking a screwdriver and a PowerPoint, you're safe. You're not going to get hurt, you're not going to get bitten. Nothing is dangerous.

SPEAKER_04

Not to go down the detail path too much, but if anything, I think the the design of your projector 48-volt chassis batteries, which we use two of, is safer than a traditional 12-volt battery, because you don't have your very traditional terminals on the top, which you can arc out. Everything is plug and play. So you've got proprietary plugs. They're not all the power goes in. They're not exposed. It's not as backyard as the terminal. They're fully IP-rated. It's actually very elegantly designed for that purpose.

SPEAKER_00

We've specifically done this for the chassis batteries to maintain an IP69K rating, which means you can essentially high-pressure steamwash these things without any problems. Um it's done that way for manufacturers such as yourself who do a dedicated off-road caravan. So your customers aren't going to be worried about doing river crossings or anything like that without going, I'm going to damage my batteries or what's going to happen here. They are fully compliant to the new standards and fully tested to make sure that they are the safest possible option for people to use.

SPEAKER_02

The 48 volt system is part of a broader um what do you call it? Essentially a product set, the Intelligrid system. Ecosystem. Ecosystem, that's the right word. Um so what does the 48 volt what does the IntelliGrid system that's a new system for a projector? Just walk us through that briefly and how 48 volt fits into that and how it's all controlled.

SPEAKER_00

Uh look, 48 volts is a next step in the evolution of power management, obviously. So we've stepped from 12 volt to 48 volt. Within this system, it still maintains the same sort of control circuits as what a standard 12-volt system does. But due to it being 48 volt, the currents are far, far, far, far lower. So you can use lighter cables, you've got greater efficiency. The overall system architecture is more fluid effectively. So even our display, our display, if you've watched previous episodes, is essentially the same as what we use for our Gen 3 models you're using in your SR2 series. Slightly different image, bigger at 10 inch over seven inches. 10 inch correct, yeah. But it still maintains that simplicity. I've said it before, it's it's elegant in its simplicity. Everything is right there. So people who are not tech savvy, who don't like playing with phones or things like that, it's it's very easy for them to use because it's like they're using their iPad or along those lines. Everything is intuitive. I want to do this, okay. I want my lights on, push this button. What lights do I want to put on? I want to use my inverter, inverters on, I've now got 240 volts throughout the van. So it's progressed to a point where it's uh simpler to use than earlier 12-volt systems, but maintains the ability to do more, to be off-grid longer, to essentially be free. Uh basically, you're gonna run out of water before you run out of power if you're doing it properly.

SPEAKER_02

So so I understand the current transfer and you talked about running things at a lower current. That's obviously reducing perhaps heat where you might have had resistance in the past. Is that making the system safer in some respects?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it is. It is. So a quick example would be is 4,000 watt 12 volts or 12.8 volts if you're looking at lithium, is approximately 330 odd amps. You call it 400 for inner fishies and so on. So you've got bigger fusing, much larger cable, a huge increase in heat. If you haven't done the right things, there is a higher possibility of fuse blows, fuse melting, and fire because it gets ridiculously hot. If the system's safe, it'll shut down before that happens, but you've got the ability to do that. In a 48-volt system, 4,000 watts is less than 80 amps worth of draw. So you can use a much smaller cable. So instead of using welding cables, I think is my wrist to run the power, it's large enough to carry that current and keep the temperatures down and make sure that the system is more efficient. There's less chance of it overheating on a 40-degree day when you're out in the middle of a marble bar running your air conditioner. So there are safety aspects in that sense, but it's also a weight-saving sense. You're using less fuses because you're not having to double up and hope that the load is shared correctly between the two of them. It's just uh again, people are scared of 48 volt because it says 48 volt. It's a bigger number. Exactly, but in all reality, it's it's actually much easier to work with, at least in our system, because it's it's literally 48 volt battery, inverter charger, everything else is 12 volt. So as long as you've got this feed here correct and this feed here is working and your battery's not flat, everything else is 12 volt or 240 volt. Yeah, wow. So much easier. So much safer.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds a lot easier.

SPEAKER_04

And I think looking through the project, and we've been working on this one for some time, as you know, and working through the pro the progress and the project together, I remember the light bulb moment for me when I genuinely understood, because I'm a very much uh I need to touch and feel and work with the product uh I can read it and and understand it, but until you physically use it yourself, and I remember getting the the prototypes into our Brisbane head office and RD facility and working through them and running it and then looking at it for myself and then figuring out the wiring diagrams and the installation, you're like, this is it it appeared complex, bigger number, 48 volt, but so much simpler from an installation perspective.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, 100% because it is literally it is now become plug and play. As long as you've got your 12-volt site worked out to a point where you're happy you're what your loads are, what you want them to do, because that's your essentially your 18 channel model module that you plug into, everything else is plug and play. Click here, bolt here, plug here, we're done. Like, what's next? That's actually a little bit boring compared to what I want. Boring is good, boring is easy, boring works. That's what we need to look at.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Eliminate the the risk of miscommunicational thing, people playing with things that they shouldn't be playing with and causing problems.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. The simpler we make it, the simpler it is for you guys to install, the simpler it is for the customers to use, the less chance we're going to see a problem in any one of those aspects. And that's what we've ultimately tried to do.

SPEAKER_02

You guys have talked about simplicity. I'll tell you what, from marketing this product, it's it's probably far more complicated because we now have a challenge of uh translating what does 48 what what does a 200 amp hour battery in a 48 volt system mean in in comparison to a 12 volt system?

SPEAKER_00

So the if there's only two things that you take away from this, it's these two equations. If you're going from 12 volt to 48 volt in your current, you divide by four. If you're going from 48 volt to 12 volt, you multiply by four. So in this instance, 210 amp hour at 48 volt is equivalent to 840 amp hour at 12 volt. So it's that is the only thing you really need to concern yourself with. Everything else is it's it's a nice to know. But these things, as long as you know that, you can work with 48 volt. You're comparing apples for apples, apples for apples, and then you the other the other big uh problem that people perceive is that 48 volt is an unlimited power source.

unknown

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

It's not. It's like 12 volts, not an unlimited power source. But due to the improved efficiencies and the way the system's been set up, so we were talking about running air conditioning off-grid and things like that. Because it's a 48-volt air conditioner that you're running, it's pulling directly from the battery. You've now got the full 4,000 watts available through your inverter to make a coffee, to run your kettle, to run your air fryer.

SPEAKER_02

So as long as we've so just to just hold on that for a second. So we now don't lot we no longer use the inverter to be powering the AC system, which we did on the Mark IIIs. Yeah, that's now coming direct connection to the battery.

SPEAKER_00

So so as an example, uh we'll use round numbers here. On a 12-volt system, you're pulling 1500 watts on an air conditioner because it's in its cooling cycle. If you want to run a 2000-watt toaster, turn your aircon off, run your toaster, turn your aircon back on. That's how it works, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02

That that was just the capacity of a 12-volt system, otherwise.

SPEAKER_00

Whereas with the 48-volt, because it is drawn directly from the battery, I can run my kettle and I can run the induction cooktop at the same time. Without having to turn the aircon off. Yes, you're going to be drawing a lot of power. So it's always, again, be conservative, make sure that you're following what you're doing. It's not an endless source of the supply.

SPEAKER_02

Monitoring battery consumption, of course. Correct.

SPEAKER_00

It's not an endless source of supply. But you can now do these things. So you can use an induction cooktop and a kettle, or you can use the air fryer and the induction cooktop and the air con all at the same time and not have to worry about okay, do I have to turn this off? Is this going to overload? Am I getting 60 degrees worth of heat because I'm running this thing so hard? Is it going to shut down on me? You don't have to worry about that anymore.

SPEAKER_02

Does it mean the bigger battery, 48 volt battery, is that take longer to recharge as well?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, it's actually the opposite in this instance. So we've got built-in 30 amp MPPT at 48 volts. So when you do the conversion, that's 120 amps worth of charge at 12 volts. This is an important thing to note, right?

SPEAKER_02

This is not just battery amperage in the capacity in the battery. We're also talking about the DC charges, AC charges.

SPEAKER_00

Correct, correct. So you've got 120 amp that you can run through this solar regulator. Now, because of the higher voltages and the panels that you guys use, you can run lighter cable, which means there's a weight reduction. But you've got 210 amp hour charging at 30 amps. The system's not going to get as hot as if you're running 120 amps at 12 volt. So you will charge that in eight hours from dead flat. Same as your DC charger. You can get up to 30 amps, which means from dead flat, eight hours worth of charge. But we've also combined it. So you can run your AC charge. So let's say you quick stop, you've managed to find a PowerPoint, you're only there for a couple of hours. 70 amps versus AC, if you've got enough sun, plus 30 amps worth of solar, you've got 100 amps worth of charge, which is equivalent to 400 amps at 12 volts. Which is it's unheard of.

SPEAKER_01

So you can charge in two and a bit hours.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's for that size capacity.

SPEAKER_02

Now and there's no risk, obviously, then of the battery you know overheating and expanding or something. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

So the battery itself is controlled via the inverter charger. So it reads the internal temperature of the cells directly and then adjusts the charge rate based on the internal temperature. Wow. So if you've got uh again, I'll use marble bar, the hottest place in Australia, if you've got 45 degrees, the heat's coming off of the road, the internal cells are at 50 degrees, it'll derate the charge to ensure that it stays charging. If you're at that beautiful number at 25 degrees, which most of the rest of Australia through with exception for three months of the year, 100 amps is not out of the question with this capacity battery bank.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's a you just flagged something really important there, and it's about people understanding the systems that the battery itself or the inverter will regulate the charging current based off the temperature of the battery. I've had a shower one day when I was driving up the highway in the middle of summer, I pulled up at camp, went to go put the hot water on the shower and almost burnt myself because the road temperature had made it hot enough that I didn't need that. I can only imagine a battery at that temperature trying to feed load into it. It's now got the intelligence to regulate, self-regulate.

SPEAKER_00

The other things people really need to be careful of too is the battery temperature is not directly related to ambient. So, case in point, I ran this 48-volt system in the back of my car for 12 months before we released it. And in the canopy itself, it was 55 degrees, I think it was. It was hot, but the internal cell temperature, because it was just sitting there in a static state, 26 degrees. So even though the system and the battery was in such a hot environment, I could get maximum charge for a brief period until the cells actually heated up towards that ambient temperature. So ambient does not always equate to cell temperature.

SPEAKER_02

You know, but I think that the take-home is that if they're looking at their system and it's a bright sunny day and they're only at 50% charge and they're wondering why their solar isn't feeding in 400 amps or equivalent 400 amps, it's probably could be that the battery system's hot and it's self-regulating. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

So the combination of the AC and solar at 100 amps, it would be 40 degrees. Batteries are warm because you've been using it. Let's derate to make sure you can continue to use your system instead of going to an overtemperature shutdown. So it gives longevity in all conditions. Even in low temperature conditions, you have a minimum temperature of two degrees cell temperature before it starts charging, which is generally you'd be minus 10 outside, and you'd still be above that internal temperature, just the way it works and the fact you've got a constant load keeping those cells warm. But it'll then reduce the charge not to shock the battery. Until it gets to a warm point, which I think is about 15 degrees, and then it goes to full power. So it's it's to conserve the battery for the best experience possible for the user so it doesn't shut down through under temperature, over temperature, or anything like that. And your customers are left wondering why have I got no power? It just it regulates itself for you.

SPEAKER_01

Something um I want to talk about, and I'm probably gonna ask some of the numpty questions. So I'm doing this on behalf of the customers in case they want to know. Because I don't understand all the finer details, I don't work on it um day to day. One thing we're doing is we're putting 48 volt solar panels on the roof as opposed to 12 volt, because you could put 12 volt there, but from just listening to what you just said then, they would only power up at a quarter of whatever power they're putting in compared to 48 volt.

SPEAKER_00

Is that so with the higher voltage panels because you're coming much closer to what the battery voltage itself actually is, you're getting a better charge from it. But the downside is if you've got higher voltage panels on the roof and you want to add a solar blanket, you need a higher voltage solar blanket to match those panels. And I believe that's something. It's what we've designed.

SPEAKER_04

So we've designed the system like that. And when we talk about system architecture and and the whole project, we didn't we wanted to do it properly from the start. We could have easily just rolled our current solar panel spec into the into the project, but it wasn't going to be the most efficient, the best system we could build. So we worked with our supply partners and we've got the the correct voltage solar panels to the point where we worked with you guys and I asked for you what's your optimum exact range you want? Let's source the correct panels for this project. At the same time, we source some higher efficiency panels from a whatever the calculation is there, essentially higher wattage less footprint on the roof. So I think on every Mark IV model in the Mark III equivalent, we have very much uh gone above and beyond what the current spec solar is on the roof on those.

SPEAKER_00

Now I remember you calling me one day, I think it was 7am wherever you were. So this be getting 20 amps worth of charge? Is that at 48 volt? Yes, it is. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. That was another light bulb moment for both Vaughan and I when we were workshopping this project, and it was the first time we'd installed it in its entirety as the prototype. And you're right, I genuinely thought there was a calibration issue with the screen. Because it just I just couldn't understand. I'm like, nah, that can't be right. And I think it bec it came off the back of I was running the Dometic 48 volt air conditioner flat out too. Yeah. Uh because it was hot. And um and the screen was saying like two and a half days to go, and we just wouldn't change. I'm like, nah, something's not right here. And uh I showed her, I think we we we FaceTimed, and you're like, no, no, that's right. That's right. And we were just like, wow, this is next level. And that's why we went those dedicated panels, because they were the best fit for the system. We went the Dometic 48 volt air conditioner because it was the best fit for the for the for the project. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And we've got expandable solar on the Mark IVs as too. So if that's not enough, you can still plug in that's right. You can still plug in more. I think there's there's three inputs on each of the Mark IVs to connect, they each take 200 watts at 12 volt of it.

SPEAKER_04

Uh no, so and this is what what uh Shane was getting at. So because it is a 48-volt native system, the best solution was for us to then pair that with a 48-volt compatible uh input for us to put solar blankets portable solar, because otherwise you would be hamstringing the system by putting a less than ideal solution in for solar. So, what we did is we want the whole system to be optimum. Someone who's buying the system will be well educated by the time we've gone through the process anyway. At that point, we can then go through the the solar inputs and ensure whatever they're buying or we're supplying uh will be optimum to run the system.

SPEAKER_00

Just just on that, um, if you have 40 volt panels on the roof and 20 volt panels on the input, the system will try and hit the midpoint equalize it. So you've lost all that efficiency. Your 20 volt panels aren't really going to perform, your 40 volt panels aren't really gonna perform. And that's that's across the board. If you have anywhere sort of a two and a half to three volt difference realistically on your voltage at max power, then you start to lose efficiency between the panels and overall charging. So you always have to try and match them as close as possible.

SPEAKER_02

Great, doing it properly as opposed to shortcutting it as 100% coming up with a solution. Vaughan, it must be pretty exciting. Like, what does it mean from your point of view to be partnering with someone like Projector who's invested this time and effort and development into this, I guess, new system? And I think we're one of the first companies to be able to adopt it.

SPEAKER_01

Um, continuity, I think, um, goes back a long way from when we first started. I think it was around the 2013 mark. Um, we've been using Projector Gear in our products exclusively. Um, you know, our team, all the way from product development all the way through to after sales service, are very familiar with the projector gear. Um, these guys have amazing support on the Australian side, but also um in our uh cooperation factory overseas, we also get support there. So when James is um designing these products, you know, and the final uh caravan is built with the system, we've actually got the guys out from Projector in our factory over in China actually going through how it's all set up, testing it, calibrating it, making sure that um you know we're set up for success when we actually go into the bulk production. And it's just um having the support of such a large international company. Like if you look into the guys, what these guys do and um the other companies within their fold, you're the huge we talk about that on some of the other podcasts and around the SR2 launch as well.

SPEAKER_02

We talk about the partnership with Projector and and the parent company and how that's kind of come about. So it's worth jumping on and having a look if people are interested and want to check it out. So there's a fair bit going on, they're not just a little uh backyard company, not anymore.

SPEAKER_00

No, from what we were to what we are, it's an exponential growth. And luckily enough, because I've been around for so long, I've seen that growth happen, and it's exciting to see where we're going to go, just with how how much we are building. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And I guess um, as an owner, um, and we've had this very long relationship, and James would would could attest to this. Um people that look after us, we look after them. So we're not one of those companies that go, hey, I can get it ten dollars cheaper down the road, so I'm gonna go jump ship. Um, we're very loyal, and particularly during COVID, um, we were able to scale very quickly and I and projected probably at the same time as well, um, because everyone was trying to buy a caravan and and go off grid, right? Um you know, you go through those periods together and your companies grow together and you have those relationships going forward, um, and it just makes you stronger, and it doesn't make sense for me as the owner of MDC to jump around. Um, when things happen, for instance, you know, we we have the crisis in the Middle East at the moment, um, and things get tough. It all it's all about relationships, and it's when you know, people jump around and change things, and you go, hey mate, can you help me out with this? I need an extra hundred units, and they're like, Well, you didn't really look after us back here, so now we can't look after you here.

SPEAKER_02

That's when those um relationships actually we can bring that order forward for you because we know there's another one coming, but yeah, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, particularly with these 48 volts, they're gonna go nuts. I think we're ordering like a hundred a week every week.

SPEAKER_02

No doubt when people see these things on the ground, they're actually a good looking van too. So they're they're a pretty good looking unit. We've done a real design update as well, so stay tuned for that. There's gonna be some pretty exciting images, and um, you're gonna see some cool stuff around them. I've got a sneak peek and yeah, if I can afford one, I'd have one. That's right. Look, Vaughan, let's talk about living with the Mark IVs and I guess the the application of these 48-volt systems. You love cooking on the off-grid down under episodes, you're heavily involved with all that.

SPEAKER_01

Very renowned for bringing my air fryer.

SPEAKER_02

You just grab your kitchen and just shove it in the caravan and go off we go.

SPEAKER_01

I've actually got two of these old school Phillips air fryers. I think they're like five or six years old, and they chew like I don't know, two and a half thousand watts or something. And if kind of if I can only bring one to the campsite, it's a little bit disappointing because I you know cooking chips here and then air frying something here. But uh with this new system, uh, should be able to run both.

SPEAKER_02

So this NCE convection oven that was your choice. Well, that'll be the same.

SPEAKER_01

I'll tell you what, James.

SPEAKER_02

But you can leave your air fryer at home now, and you'll be able to use one of these ones.

SPEAKER_01

James is very quiet about that one because um we were actually um over with our corporation factory in China during the project, and he's like, I've actually had one of these in my office now for six months. It was testing. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

As I said, I think we would have he just doesn't want to eat lunch with everybody else downstairs. Can confirm does a very good spring roll in that uh in that air fro. I'll give you the tip. But no, it's all all in the uh all in the spirit of of thorough testing.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think the point being that we've now got this convection oven and induction cooktops. Like it it's we're certainly putting a lot of energy into the electrical system, right? We're putting a lot of power in there. Is has that been a deliberate choice? I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um Yeah, it was a deliberate choice, but also something that we've wanted to do for a while. And as I said before, I guess the limiting factor for us was the amount of battery capacity, the ability to replenish quickly with solar and and things like that. And until we genuinely tested and thought through this 48-volt project was when we were comfortable and confident enough to put in more high-powered cooking appliances, let's call them. Um not because we don't like gas and we've left the external kitchens in all of our Mark IVs fundamentally how they are in the Mark IIIs with the Thetford three-burner gas cooktop.

SPEAKER_02

There you go. Well, maybe actually you probably can. Yeah, maybe. But not if not if it's cast iron, I wouldn't suggest it.

SPEAKER_04

No, but um yeah, having having the gas cooktop's still a a good thing to have as well and an atmosphere variety. People like to cook outside, um, people like that style of cooking. So it's good to be able to offer that variety of of experience.

SPEAKER_02

People just as you've said, people just don't want to reheat food anymore. They want to be able to cook properly. Oh, it's true.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you don't want to go and just heat up a meal, you want to be able to do some cook whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, have the freedom to be able to do whatever.

SPEAKER_04

That's it.

SPEAKER_02

Shane, the Intelligrid system, you talked about a little bit earlier about its simplicity. Talk us about that. Is it really? I mean, there is the app, it's almost like a a mirrored image of the unit in the van versus the app. Is it is it as simple as it sounds? It is actually a mirror image. There's not 14 different pages I've got to scroll through to find um again.

SPEAKER_00

Think of it like you're using a tablet of some sort, whether it's an Android or an iPad or something like that. It's very, very similar to that. You do still have a couple of pages depending on what you want to do. So if you're looking for lighting, that's on its own page. If you're looking for your loads, that's on its own page. You've got constant outputs, which is primarily like a fridge circuit or a radio circuit, sure, that's on a separate page. But when you realistically think about it, the primary pages you're using is your lights page. Yeah, that is it. Once you get to where you're going, you're gonna turn your accessory sockets on, you're gonna turn all your 12 volt stuff on, then you're gonna forget about it until you go again. It's your lights. So you basically push one button, set it to lights, that's it. Every time you go back to that load page, it is on your lights page. And then the rest of it is very intuitive on the display. So nice big bold lettering. How much power have you got left? I'm at X percentage data charge. Shows your solar charge, shows your AC charge, shows your DC charge, but you're driving, so I don't particularly want you in a van looking at a screen while you're driving. Shows your water levels. It's I think that's the other one.

SPEAKER_02

Controls your water pumps, water levels, it's one central hub. It's almost like a smart home, a Google smart hub for your caravan.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. So you think about you like Google Nest at home where you're okay, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this. It's exactly the same as that. Um again, if you've used a smartphone of any sorts whatsoever, where you know, okay, tap here and this is what I want, you can use one of these systems. Yeah, if you've never used a smartphone in your life, then you're probably not the off-grid type of person. You're looking more at caravan parks. Um but it really is that simple.

SPEAKER_01

It's also got the leveling in it. Yes, yes. And you can see that on your app outside. So you could be playing with your stabilizer legs and putting up various corners to get it nice and very cool.

SPEAKER_00

So level sensing, it's got high pressure monitoring and all that as well. Um, but just as an example, when I had it in the back of the car, my youngest daughter used to love playing, sitting around and crawling around in there. So I sat her in front of the screen, so I want you to turn the lights on. Yeah. That's a great one. That's how it's done. Got my oldest, my eldest daughter, she's five in two days. Same thing. Straight away. They don't get tablets, they're not allowed to have an iPad. But it was that easy where I want you to turn the lights on. Oh, there it is. And the lights will come on. It took them all of about a minute to do. Intuitive. Very, very intuitive. And again, I said this in one of the previous episodes as well. Our displays are now being used, or our our interface essentially is now being used globally with manufacturers because it just has that ease and simplicity to it. It they don't want people don't want complication. No, manufacturers don't want complication. Manufacturers want their label on it, they want it to work. Customers just want it to work and they want it to work well. Because they don't want to be at a caravan park going, how do I read my water and what's my tires doing, and where did I put the pump button and things like that? They don't want that. They want to walk in after a day of fishing and a few beers and go, lights on, let's cook some dinner. Simple as that.

SPEAKER_01

Another thing for this 48-volt system, which I don't think we've actually um talked about, is in our new MK4s, James, we have a dedicated DC to DC charger now. And we also have a dedicated MPPT charger.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so that's all in the in the 401 or built into the inverter charger.

SPEAKER_00

So the DC DC is effectively a converter. So when you're hooked to your vehicle, it goes 12 volt into the inverter, which then converts it to 48 volt for charge. But when you're not hooked into the vehicle, the inverter then converts it from 48 volt back to 12 volt for your appliances. So you've got the built-in MPPT, you've got the built-in DC DC, you've got the built-in AC, but they all combine charging. So if you've got potential for 30 amp worth of solar and 30 amp worth of DC DC while driving down the road, you're getting 60 amps worth of charge. You're not limited to one or the other. One or the combined output effectively. So with the the Gen 3s and the SR2s, so it's 45 amps. Doesn't matter if it's coming in from solar, if it's coming in from DC DC, they combine, it's 45 amps. This is 30 amps in from solar, 30 amps in from DC DC, 60 amps out.

SPEAKER_01

How good?

SPEAKER_00

So it does give you that additional charge while driving. So if you do happen to have a point where you're running a little bit low on power and you go, right, we're going to move on here. If you're driving between sort of 10 and 2, when you've got the sun almost in the middle of the sky, you've got a huge amount of solar on the roof. Let's say I think it's 1500 watts, for example, you could be charging 50 amps per hour. You drive for two hours fill up because you're out of fuel by then generally, drive another two hours to get to your site, you are full. And that is from dead flat. Like that's from 0%, not from 20%, 50%, zero. So if you leave when you're at 50% two hours, you fill up your car, you go down to your next spot, you're effectively full. And if you're not, well, by the time you've set up, the solar's kicked in by itself and you're ready to go. You don't have to worry about the rest of it.

SPEAKER_02

I think that not worrying is probably the fundamental thing. I guess James the Mark IV range, it's it's focused on simplicity. I guess what does that mean for somebody who has traditionally stayed in caravan parks or come from that? You know, this could be a big opportunity for them to come in and go, I haven't really camped off grid before and I want to I want to do it more. The Mark IV seems to open up some new opportunities, right?

SPEAKER_04

For those yeah, it does. And so working through the spec with Vaughn and and projector, um, we opted for two of the chassis mount batteries, which are 105 amp at 48 volt, which is two of them is 210 in our battery bank at 48 volt, so that's 840 amps at 12 volt when we get there in the end. Um so that's that was one of the key drivers for us. So we didn't just opt for one chassis mount battery, and that's a considerable investment for us. Whilst the projector product is fantastic and the quality is amazing and the partnership is great, it it's it's not a cheap investment for us. And if we break down the costing of of the project, the the electrical system is by far the the most expensive portion of the project. And that's what it needs to be. It's the it's the heart and the brains of the caravan. If you don't have that fundamentally sorted correctly, particularly when we are wanting these to be the best off-grid product we've ever built, which I am very confident that we have, um then that that was a no-brainer for us to invest in that. So I guess that answers the first part of your question was around that battery capacity that we've well and truly up the ante there. We added the high-efficiency solar. Um, but we also gone and looked at every aspect of it, that 48-volt air conditioner rather than going for a 240-volt air conditioner, which we could still have done and converted it, but uh we decided to go native 48 volt with the battery pack. Um, but then we looked at all different parts of the Mark IV project and everything we learnt with the Mark IIIs being in market for two and a half years. Uh, we've learnt a lot. We've refined some things, we've added some really cool things that we've learned along the journey to make them more capable off-road, off-grid, more comfortable, more aesthetically pleasing, more automotive in nature. I think that the way in which we've executed this project, the whole package is going to really push the boundaries for everyone in terms of what's expected now.

SPEAKER_02

As you know, sitting as the marketing manager, I see what's come out of the commercial development side of it, and I go, I'm looking at this going, everything about this is just making it easy, right? It's making it's not worrying about how it's charging. Who cares if it's coming through DC, AC, solar? I I couldn't care less. You make it really good. Is it charging? Good point. And how fast is it charging? And do I need to worry about it? No. And what can I cook on? Any you got anything. You can induction, oven, or gas. It's it's it's designed as a don't worry about it. Just hop in and go.

SPEAKER_04

It's the least compromised caravanning experience, I think, that we've ever executed by a long shot and the closest aligned to a home style feel. So basically you're going away but got every creature comfort you'd like. Um so yeah, I could I couldn't agree more. That's the thing I take out of it in particular.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Sorry, just just something on the we were talking about the the 10-inch screen before and the interface. We've also gone and and from a usability perspective, we're not going and the customer's not going to have to go and check over here for your water gauges or here's my switches to turn everything on. You walk into the caravan, you find that massive 10-inch screen on the bulkhead, or where we've put it in each model, that's where you need to be. That's where everything happens. That's where you turn everything on and off, that's where you find out everything, let's find out where what your battery capacity is like, how much solar am I bringing in, how much current am I drawing with my fridge and my air conditioner. That's it. Go to that screen and you know everything.

SPEAKER_02

Another thing I want to talk about, and you've mentioned it a couple of times, is the chassis mount batteries. So as an off-roader, I look at that and go, what do I need to factor in? You know, I want a car with high ground clearance and this and that and the other. The same thing applies to caravans, and we put body protection around them and yeah, side rock rails and stuff on the side. Talk a bit about the requirement for chassis mounting batteries in terms of obviously there's a few factors. There's weight, there's regulation, there's other factors there. Um, I don't know, Shane, is that one for you to kind of start with from a requirement point of view, and then James from a compliance point of view?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a bit of both here because chassis batteries it solves a lot of problems. The big issue is when the new standard came out, is you had to have the batteries installed a certain way within the caravan itself. And that became very, very complicated because you've got fully sealed units, only can only be opened by mechanical means. You then have to find ways of sealing cables going into there. It became very, very difficult. The other aspect is too, is it takes up so much space. These 48 volt batteries are physically bigger, aren't they? They they are, they are. They are larger than what I would like, but it's to accommodate that's what they are. Exactly. It's to accommodate everything into the one. So all your cells, your protections, your BMS, and also give that rigid body. So if something does bounce up off the road, it's going to hit that battery and then glance off and keep going. We've also tried to design them in such a way that the high Height of them is only a little bit greater than what the chassis height is. But if they're installed in such a way that gives you a good balance on the van itself, you're gonna damage something else before you damage the batteries themselves. Also combine that with, as I said earlier, being IP69K rated, so high pressure, high like steam washing, there's a higher likelihood of you blowing out a tire, sorry, and going on your side than what there is with something going wrong with your battery. And uh this is sort of a the one that really sticks in my mind. I went to a convention a couple of years ago, scientists they say they are, on stage talking about lithium batteries. It was all about lithium ions, so phones, scooters, things like that. I was a little bit bored because I wasn't there for that. One guest asked, what about lithium ferrous phosphate? So what's run in the caravan industry? The exact response was I would let my kid sleep on top of that any day of the week without thinking twice, why are we talking about this? And then moved on to the next topic. So if you've got someone who is a legitimate scientist in a specialist field of lithium and batteries saying that sort of thing, it says it all. Yeah. It really does say it all.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, look, the design has been a huge part of your role, James. And I mean, these things are protected under the chassis with full you know steel plating and things like that on top of their own natural design.

SPEAKER_04

But I was about to say that, so we being us want to make sure that we're not. We over engineer it, right? Uh so yes, we have our own bash plates on top of your bash plates, which um kind of detracts. I'd like to be able to hero the the battery, but we just wanted to make sure we added an additional level of of of uh protection there.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody knows what a battery is. You don't need to look at it, you just need to know it works. So me personally, I'd love to I love seeing polished checker plate over anything else. To me, that is that's I'll sit here on the phone. I don't know, mate.

SPEAKER_01

So these 48 volt batteries are pretty sexy.

SPEAKER_02

So we you we talked earlier about the can the design of the actual body and and where do where do you put these things? So it doesn't leave a lot of options. So there's obviously from a design perspective, talk about that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and Shane covered off a fair few really key points here. One of the things is credit to the projector team developing these batteries because they are whilst they're large, you've put a lot of thought into the actual dimensions and what's going to be compatible with what works for us to be able to fit them either between uh your trailing arm suspension from a depth perspective, they're no deeper than a water tank. So back to your point around if you are damaging those batteries, you've already completely lost your water tanks and you've got way bigger problems. Yeah, you've lost pretty much the entire underside of Ant. Not to mention what did the car go through to get to that point as well. So um there's that. The floor plan design was something that was really refreshing for us in this project to not have to try and think of how to house two ginormous batteries in an external compartment but still housed within the body envelope of the caravan because when we're building off-road, we don't we haven't typically done the the side of chassis style that you'd see on our SR Series 2s, which are all the same. It's all about ground clearance, right? You don't want to compromise that. Yeah, so not having to find a spot to do that, not to try and then have to compensate for weight distribution left to right, because you're going and putting at least 100 kilos of offset weight purely in batteries if you're doing an external compartment on the site. So uh weight distribution was great. Floor plan flexibility though, not having to find that. We found optimizing those floor plans, we've got more storage areas, we were able to do more with the design because now all you're considering is where your wheel boxes are, they're your only limitations for what we were doing. Um, and the weight distribution, the centre of gravity is a lot lower with the chassis amount batteries, and we could then do some more innovative floor plans and actually use the the weight distribution of the batteries and then figure out and model where we want to put them, either forward of the axle, rear of the axle, obviously try and keep them as close to the axle grip as we can. But just having that as such a centralized weight was really, really helpful in the project.

SPEAKER_00

And one of the other things we're probably yet to touch on as well, and I'm not sure if you're going that direction, but the inverter charger and command module as well, because it is so much smaller of a footprint and so much lighter, um where that is now installed as well means that it's taking up dead space something you could never use before. Whereas now you've put this in here, you've utilized that dead space, and again, you've now got more space within the van itself for all your personal items.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the inverters previous on previous models had to be bigger to accommodate more power, so they actually had to have their own dedicated spaces.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, exactly, exactly. Whereas this overall system is so much smaller, so much lighter. Okay, we've got this dead space here, let's stick it in there. It's safe, we know it's gonna work. We've now opened up all this additional cavity space for someone who wants to chuck in an extra three or four seats or wants to bring the extra bag of luggage.

SPEAKER_04

Right. I still remember unboxing the prototype because we'd seen it in catalogues and we'd worked through it with you guys. And I remember the team unboxed it and we looked at it, and I remember saying to him, I'm going, Where's the rest of it? Like I thought there was gonna be more. I'm like, something has to be missing, like there's not enough parts here. And I think I called you, and you're like, You've got this, this, and this. He's like, No, that's it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, four parts.

SPEAKER_02

That's it, four parts, four parts, yeah. Easy. So making it simple, right? That's where we're going now, James. With the the Mark IV range, there's there's eight models. Do you want to just talk about that? We just sort of talked about some of the layouts. Just give us a brief overview of what's in the range and some of the big changes.

SPEAKER_04

Oh man, where to start? Well, you're gonna test me now.

SPEAKER_02

Let's talk about layouts because I mean that's where what we were talking about. What yeah, the battery systems have opened up that freedom for design. So, what are the big changes?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so the the Mark III uh XT range was always very, very good anyway. I think the the floor plans were used uh and had carried through many other projects were good anyway. I think what we've been really popular. They have been for sure, but I think what we've done well is we've further refined that. We've looked at market trends, what the customers are wanting. So we're going for we've got a starts off from a 14-foot. Um the first two we're bringing to market is a 16-foot island layout and a 15-foot pop top couples with a front club. So they're the two first ones we're bringing to market, and then we're going from there. We've got an 18-family, uh, we've got a 19 rear door and forward door, uh, we've got a 16 east-west and a 15 family as well. So we're adding to our family offering from feedback through through customers, optimizing the floor plans we've already used, but also added in a couple of new key floor plans that we know our customers have been asking for, but until working with the Laksa projector, haven't been able to do these things because of limitations for various reasons.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you opened some of the lids on some of the Mark IIIs under the seats, and yeah, there's a there's a big section for the electricals, the battery, the inverted, all that. But there's space there that that is being used. So having the freedom to take the batteries out, put them somewhere else, yeah. It's opened up a bit of opportunity. So it's definitely worth checking out. If you're watching at home, check out the Mark IV layouts and floor plans on the website.

SPEAKER_04

And I think so. We've spoken about the floor plans and and the layouts, but I think visually hands down, the best uh colour palettes we've chosen yet, the exterior look. Of course they are, they're blue and orange, but yeah. So yeah, I think what we've we've done well is we've brought in this new design language that we've executed really well in the Ford SR Series 2s and adopted a lot of that stuff into the the Mark IV series, but kind of scaled it back to a more refined premium off uh off-road automotive look. We've brought back in the orange and blue iconic MDC uh look and feel, but still kept homage and legacy to what our Mark III decal look has looked like as well. So when you see the external of it, far cleaner look, more premium looking. When you step inside, we've gone with a a premium look, we call it outback slate cabinetry, so it's like a textured cabinet which adds this level of premium when the lights are bouncing off it, it gives a really, really good texture inside, but also then makes it feel both rugged but also premium at the same time.

SPEAKER_02

Visually cleaner too, they don't uh fingerprints don't show up on them, which is a nice little benefit you've got to get in the family. Yeah, in the family, right? Vaughan, it's a pretty big shift. These Mark IVs are a big step up, step up, and especially the 48-volt system. Where does this sit, I guess, in the journey for MDC?

SPEAKER_01

And are you sort of asking what's coming?

SPEAKER_02

No, no, I'm just saying, where does it sit from your yeah, from where you started the business? Yeah, with a fold out, you know, look, um camper trailer to where we are now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, every time we um uh put out a new product range, it's just taking it to the next level, right? Um and each time we just go up in leaps and bounds. Um where it's all going, I'm not sure. Maybe 600 volts or 800 volts and no wheels, it hovers. Yeah, hoverboard. There's possibility that was that was on Beyond 2000 about 26 years ago, wasn't it? Actually, one of my favourite shows Beyond 2000. None of them like it right. Channel 2, wasn't it? Yeah, that didn't get any of it right. Yeah, um, yeah, really proud of what James and Team's done. Thank you, Shane, for you and your team and the support you give to MDC over the years. And um, this is gonna be a very uh successful product offering. I think our customers are gonna jump all over it. There's gonna be a lot of people upgrading from uh Mark III's to Mark IVs, I think.

SPEAKER_02

It's gonna be hard to find an alternative product that's gonna meet your price point and gonna meet the demands of what you want to do going off grid, that's for sure. It's a very complete package in my mind. If I put my consumer hat on. But uh Shane, look, thank you from your point of view. If if there's one message that you want people to take away around 48 volt systems, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00

Don't be scared of it. Simple as that. Do not be scared. I've said it a couple of times already. People hear 48 volts, they think, oh no, that's dangerous, and this and that. It's it's not. Everything's done in such a way to make it as safe as humanly possible. And again, you have one connection, which is battery to inverter. That's it. Don't be scared of 48 volts. Outside of that, again, it's not an unlimited power source, but because it is more efficient on the way it actually converts your power, you will be able to run for a bit longer than what you generally would on a 12-volt system. I wouldn't say it's leaps and bounds longer, but enough to not have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um going back to the SR2 as well is when customers buy this. There's not gonna be an if. It's it's a when. It's happening. You can just tell with this range it's going to happen. Use your van at home before you go away.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

That way you know exactly what it can and can't do, and you're not gonna be in the middle of nowhere caught out. That's I I will repeat myself until my bum's in the ground. Use it at home before you go away.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, agree. Shakedowns at home. Don't underestimate them, guys. That's it. You don't have to go around the block, just stay at home and use it. Absolutely. Well, look, Shane, on that note, thank you very much for joining us. Very informative. Thank you for the education. It's uh I think it's gonna be really beneficial for customers. It is a educational and learning curve for customers coming out of 12 volt. So I really appreciate your time and knowledge in this field as well. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, James. Thanks for sharing your insights and feedback on the new Mark IV range. Super exciting. I can't wait to see them on the ground, see them in showrooms.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, always a pleasure. And thank you, Shane, again for coming, mate. We appreciate it. Appreciate the uh the projector support.

SPEAKER_00

And I I love working with you guys, and this is how companies grow. So without your feedback telling us this is what customers want, we'd be sitting in the dark going, Do you want to try this? Is it right?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, look, I think the closer is thanks to Vaughan for you know having the confidence to innovate and try something new, try something different, bringing these new products to market and uh yeah, backing it to to bring it out for people to actually use. So thanks for joining us today as well.

SPEAKER_01

No worries.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Thanks everybody, thanks for watching. If you do like what you see, please like, please subscribe. We'll put links to the new Mark IV range down the bottom and educational stuff around the 48 volt system. So please check those out. And uh we look forward to seeing you on the next episode sometime soon.