Anne and Matt go deep on the blurry line between persuasion and manipulation—and what happens when you realize you can sell absolute sh*t if you want to. They dissect the ethics of marketing vs. branding, why donation-based models might be doomed, and how founders can get drunk on their own hype. Matt explains why great products don’t need lies, while Anne confesses what scared her out of digital marketing. This episode is raw, reflective, and a must-listen for founders with a conscience.

🚨 Stuff You’ll Want to Remember:

• If your marketing tactic works too well, ask why—and who it's hurting.
• The line between manipulation and persuasion is razor thin. Know which side you’re on.
• Most donation-based models fail unless they’re tied to real cause or scale.
• A great brand builds connection; a great product builds trust. You need both.
• Talking to customers is better than a year of SEO tools—every time.

💣 Sh*t Only Founders Say:

• “Marketing is just lipstick on a pig.” — Anne
• “I can 10x ChipBot with manipulation tactics. I just won’t.” — Matt
• “It scared the sh*t out of me how easily I could sell anything.” — Anne
• “Money is oxygen—and your customers are the tube.” — Matt
• “You get a room full of people drinking your Kool-Aid and it’s game over.” — Anne

💬 Lines That Slap:

“If your product is great, you don’t need to lie.” — Matt

“Branding is surprise and delight. Marketing is spin.” — Anne

“I don’t want to dominate a niche—I want to reverse niche.” — Anne

“Google has no support. But we still need Gmail.” — Matt

📡 Where to Find Us

• Anne → Fix & Form - LinkedIn
• Matt → ChipBot - LinkedIn