Brick by Brick

The Mother's Conversation

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0:00 | 33:48

Happy Mother's Day! In this episode, we bring in 4 mothers form our church, and talk about their experience with motherhood. They share their stories of mothering their children with a wide range of ages from babies, to adults, even to grandkids, offering encouragement and wisdom along the way.

Brick by Brick is the official podcast of Renovation Church, featuring weekly Sunday messages and powerful deep dives into the theology, meaning, and the real-life impact of God's Word. "It's where faith gets built, one truth at a time."

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SPEAKER_02

Hello everyone. I want to share with you that today we will have four mothers joining us, and we will talk about everything there is with their experience with motherhood, from very young children to children who are out of the household, all of the things that they've experienced, and we're gonna go deep. So please join us and welcome these ladies, and I think you'll find it very interesting. I want everyone to introduce themselves. So, Heather.

SPEAKER_05

Hi, I am Heather. I'm a fabulous mom to Trevor and Elijah, both adults.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. Annie.

SPEAKER_01

I'm Annie Sanchez. I'm a mother to four small children, six and under.

SPEAKER_02

Six and under. Fantastic. Brie?

SPEAKER_03

I'm Brie Lubelski, and I have two adopted sons that I got as teenagers. So a little unique on that.

SPEAKER_02

Fantastic. Dawn.

SPEAKER_04

I'm Dawn Rose. I have five children. So I'm a mom and I'm also a Grammy to eleven.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. Well, I look forward to this conversation. Let's dig a little deeper. Uh before we start, I want to read a little from Proverbs 31 to you about mothers. She is clothed with strength and dignity. She can laugh at the days to come. She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue. She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children arise and call her blessed. Her husband also, and he praises her. Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all. When I think of a mother's responsibility, I think of how you form character, how you teach truth, how you model strength and wisdom, and how you build a foundation that will last for your children into adulthood. I just want to set that foundation as we start. And I was really interested to hear each of you. Um Bri, I want to start with you with discipline.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Hard. Everyone here has been through it, so everyone can feel free to chime in. But when our children were growing up, I had a saying, and they could all tell you to this day what the saying was. And it was this I'm your father, not your friend. Later I can be your friend. But discipline is very hard, right? Um when I think of the scripture that you read, Proverbs 29, 15 to 17, uh, you know, discipline is about future peace and stability for those children. Um, it's probably hard for you, and I want you to speak to this, sometimes to sacrifice that short-term comfort that you would get if you just let them do what they want to do for the long-term gain. So, how do you balance that? How do you how do you just not let things go and and keep that rigor?

SPEAKER_03

I'm a middle school math teacher. I've taught middle school for 10 years, inner city, rough students, and I've watched other teachers struggle, and one of the biggest things is because they let it go. Well, you got to choose your battles, and no, you don't. You fight all the battles until they understand that there's a line of respect and there's an expectation of what you want them to do and what you expect them to do. And Khalil was my student, and he knew that about my household. But it was a rough transition when you have two foster kids coming into your house and and thinking, like, okay, how are we going to do this? Because we didn't get 13 and 16 years to raise them up. We picked them up, brought them back to New Jersey, and boom, they're in our house. And Chris and I had to say that these are the expectations, these are the rules. And um, we couldn't let things slide. We we picked every battle because they had had so much inconsistency that if you live with that mindset of pick your battles, there's gonna be little things that slide that add up to big things in the future. And so my approach to discipline has been very much what my classroom discipline is, is if you're consistent and consistent and consistent in the beginning, it makes it easier later on to the point where we had to, for consistency with Carte, we had to make a list and post it on the refrigerator of consequences if he did A, B, and C with school, because he just struggled with maintaining it. So, in my opinion, it's you don't pick the battles, you fight them all.

SPEAKER_02

That's great. So, how does how does scripture and being well connected at a church and plugged in and like how does that affect your family? So uh I'm a strong believer in this, that we are stewards of our children and we're a placeholder for the Lord because someday they're gonna they're gonna move out and be on their own, and now they have a foundation that you've helped put in place, you've shepherded that along, right? But you're not gonna be there. Like when they move out and they're on their own, they're making their own decisions, you're not there, but you've created this foundation and you've been a steward of what God intends. So can you talk to that a little bit? Like what what's what's the daily look like in your family? Like, how do you how do you connect them with with what God really intends?

SPEAKER_03

So it's been really hard the last couple of years with everything I've been going through physically and mentally. Um, I actually just told the girls at the youth group this past Sunday that being with them was the closest I've felt to God in the last two years because it's just been so hard to be the be the one or two viewers watching online and not actually in the service and being there. But we made sure that even though I was struggling with that, my husband picked up the mantle and made sure that Carday, because Khalil went to Michigan State, so he hasn't really been here the last couple of years, but that Carde was he was taking Carda every Sunday. So Carday was in the service and we were doing these things. And um, I gotta be honest, we uh, and I don't know if I've ever told Petroski this, but we uh started looking for a new church and renovation popped up, and I literally go, Chris, Chris, this church has a black pastor. And I was like, the boys would like, this is great, because I wanted my sons to be able to see themselves in our church. And we've never been in a church that really reflected them. Because unfortunately, most of the time, we do still see black churches and white churches, and there are some churches that strive for, you know, strive to have diversity, but it's a struggle. And, you know, it's still a very cultural thing. And I have found at Renovation this is the most diverse church we've been to. And I think that coming here was the best choice we ever made for our sons because they could see a pastor that looked like them, a family that looked like them because Petrovski's family is blended like ours. And, you know, they don't they don't all look alike because Stephanie and Petrovski are different ethnicities. And so it's one of those things where we see diversity in this church that we've never seen. And that has led to Carde wanting to go to youth group and being excited about youth group and Steve encouraging him to, you know, read your Bible daily. And I'll walk into his bedroom to get his laundry and I see his Bible open out on the you know desk. And so I think over the last five years of being a mom in our unique situation was just always trying to talk about it in the house and encourage them to go to youth group and read your Bible and do these things and pray as a family. And I think that it's it's one of those things we talked about. Um, I think Heather talked about letting your adult children go, letting Khaliga off to college and not knowing is he going to church, is he going to a Bible study? Is he doing those things? It's hard to watch your kids do that. So um I think it's just supporting them as best as you can and and modeling. I I said in my video, modeling your relationship with Christ, even when it struggles. Like I've been struggling the last couple of years. And I've been very honest with Carde about that and Khalil about that, and saying, like, I'm in a rough season, but every time we talk about it, I go, but God's got another door that he's gonna open. And so even though it's a rough season, you just you keep telling them God's got it. No matter what, God's got it.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's awesome. Thank you, Annie. Do you remember your scripture?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, Romans 12, 12.

SPEAKER_02

Can you what can you say it for for us?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah. Uh be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. Hope isn't really wishful thinking, is it? I mean, it's that confident expectation on God's promises. So I when when you say that and when you um talk about hope and endurance, um, which helps you persevere and the prayer that keeps you connected and keeps you hanging on. Yeah. Um, when I look at this and I I say, okay, Annie, okay, how do you really have joy even in the hard times?

SPEAKER_01

I think if you can look back at your life and see the little moments where things were hard and God carried you through, that that builds that confidence that, okay, I have this hope that that God's got me because he always has in the past. Um there's a concept in the Old Testament about setting up an Ebenezer, or like you put up stones, you know, just as a monument of this is what God has done. And I've done that throughout my life in different ways of just okay, this is a big moment. And I really saw God come through in prayer, you know, in blessings one way or another. And I'm gonna make sure that I write this down, you know, that I mark it somehow. Um just because that helps build that hope. And I don't know, that's that's where it comes from. I mean, the fact that I have a family and children and the house that we have, like from where I came from and where my husband came from, like we shouldn't have been together and we, you know, shouldn't have what we have, but God is so faithful. And if he brought us this far, you know, I only know he's got good things in store. Amen.

SPEAKER_02

So that brings you joy. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Joy isn't tied to circumstances, really. It's kind of um, it's kind of like, you know, you you you know God is working and God is doing what he does, and you you get that that joy out of my mother used to say every morning she would wake up and she made a choice and she would choose joy. And it sounds like you're the same way.

SPEAKER_01

That's very wise, yeah. Um, I try. I'm I fail a lot. I mean, don't ask my children how many times they're like, oh, okay, mom's getting angry again. And I mean, my kids are six and under, and I have four of them, and one of them is on the autism spectrum, and it gets crazy and chaotic. But I always try, and the Holy Spirit is so good at reminding me to take that breath and to come back and remember, you know, because I I want them to look back on their childhood and and know that they were loved and that I did the best I could, and ultimately to know our amazing Almighty God and you know, hand them over to Him, I guess. Um when I first met my husband, um, one of the we met online, and one of the things I had in my profile is I'm forever the optimist, even my blood type is be positive, and that's what caught his eye because he's also just like a jokester. Um, and I think that's kind of set the tone for our house, just you know, why would you waste your time worrying about things and being negative when you know God's done it in the past and he can do it again? I f for online dating. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so I'm gonna ask a question of all of you. What's the best part about being a mother? Don't everybody speak at once.

SPEAKER_00

Heather, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05

Um I think uh I had a horrible childhood growing up, so I had an opportunity to uh take the mistakes my parents made and uh make them better uh with my children. I tell my children the same thing. When you have kids, you take what we made as a mistake and you fix it and make it better. Um I'm not a huggy person, but I fell in love with kids hugging and calling me mama, which is what I like right now. Um the friendship I have with my kids, just watching them grow and just I feel like they've taken um the ugliness of my childhood and have has made my adulthood wonderful. So that's fantastic. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Dawn, how about you? Hi.

SPEAKER_04

Hi. I I wouldn't I wouldn't exactly you guys are in a different uh season than I am, and I wouldn't exactly say I was the greatest mom. I wouldn't get the best mom award. And I know that we've all we all have regrets, we all make mistakes. I don't beat myself up for that anymore, but I used to. Um I think for me, the best part, and maybe it's it's now, and since my kids have been grown, I I grew up with my kids, and I grew up on my kids. I didn't really, I didn't discipline well. We had a lot of chaos. Um, but I think the biggest thing for me now is what I learned from my adult kids. Um I just I I love them so much. They're so smart, they're so intelligent, and I learn from them. I just learn stuff from them that I I wonder to myself, how did you how did you learn that? How did you get so smart? I am constantly in awe of my kids, and I I love that part of being a mom. It it's it is more of a friend, a friendship now than it, yeah. We can't be their friends, although it's it's it's hard not to be. You want to be can now. You yeah, I can now, yep, and I am I am.

SPEAKER_02

I'm going to come back to you, ladies, about the best part of being a mother, but I want to stay on this for a minute because now you're getting in a little to your scripture in Proverbs 17, 6. Children's children or grandchildren, as we know them, are a crown to the age. So um I think that's that's pretty awesome. I think that the that verse in particular is not just sentimental, I think it's very practical. You're seeing it generationally, you're seeing those fruits, and that's that's pretty amazing. It sounds like you just sit back and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_04

Pretty much. Pretty much. They're my fun. They're so fun, they're very much fun. I have actually I call them kind of two sets. I've got an older set of grandkids. I got 11, and so there's some older ones, and we go right on down to three, and there's this big gap in between, and the older ones where I was young enough to like do everything with them. I go to Cedar Pole. What are we doing, Grammy? It's like I'm doing what you're doing. So they were a lot of fun. Then we have this big gap, and and they were raised out of diapers, the best parts over, and then I get another set of littles. But I have to say, um, the older ones now are getting older, they're driving, they got boyfriends, they're going to count, they're they're getting out on their own. It's like, oh, it's a good thing I got another set, because they are so much fun and they bring so much joy. I am able, you get older and you get through the stress of life, and and yeah, you just you you get to enjoy them. There's a saying that that that goes, um, they come with coats on, they go home, which is really good for Grammy, because at the end of the day, I'm exhausted. It's they're a lot to keep up with, but they are definitely, they are definitely the rewards of having your children.

SPEAKER_02

That's great. I I think it's interesting also that, you know, and I was talking a little with Annie and Bree about like how we're the stewards and and we want to show them the ways of the Lord, and then when they leave, we might be missing, but you know, he's there. If you think about God and where you are with your children and all of you raising your children, um he kind of models this, right? I mean, for us, he gives us guidance, he allows us freedom, he lets people experience consequences, uh, and he stays available for relationships. Yeah. And that's exactly what you do as mothers.

SPEAKER_04

Can I add, we also have the privilege, I call it a privilege, of being able to speak into their lives. You know, there's they might be having a bad day or they just need a little bit of of uh encouragement. And it's it's so amazing when when God says something through you to them and you just see them light up like little Christmas trees. They're they're they're my most amazing people.

SPEAKER_02

Have you seen your relationship with your children change over the years? Like we talked about, hey, I I said I'm your father, not your friend, but I can be your friend later. Like, have you seen that change in your relationship?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, definitely. Um, that's that's kind of what my grounded video was about. You know, it's um I think the best thing that I can do for them now, even my grandkids, is to grow in Christ, to let him change me, because when he changes me, I heard this. Um, if if how does it go? If he can change, I let him change me, and then it's the we. When I grow and God heals me and restores me and shows me my broken parts, and it it does, it changes the way I relate to my kids. I can remember a time when they were smaller, and I I don't know, I was raised with not a lot of conversation in my family. We didn't have very good communication. And um I kind of started following that trend too, where I just and I realized it when my friend said, you know, her kid at two years old knew ABCs, and I was just astounded. It's like, but she sang to them in the car, and it's like we don't say nothing in the car, like we just don't say nothing in the car, and that really, you know, we learn from each other, we pick those things up. We tend to model what we what what we had when we were growing up until God steps in and says, Yeah, this is you know, it there's a better way. There's a better way, and so his way is better. I do get better, and I get more open with my kids. I'm I'm so you just you get to our age, and it's like, well, you know, I I gotta say it. And typically I do. So, but more there's more freedom, there's a lot more freedom in our relationships.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so we've covered we're in the midst of raising them, and we've covered we're raising them, or we've we've raised them. You know what's coming next. Yeah, so you're you're in that transition where they are leaving the nest. And um how do you see, like right now in the moment, how do you see your relationship changing with your children? And if if I could, if you you know th think of it from a a a church and scriptural standpoint and things that you've taught them, how how you've stewarded that relationship with God, and now how you how you see that moving as as they're moving on.

SPEAKER_05

Uh with our youngest I I can see um how it with him it's uh our oldest has has has struggled. Uh we've had our kids in church since they were born. We d um dedicated all three of our kids when they were babies. Uh and but uh after his sister had passed away when she was ten, um he didn't have a very good youth group, unfortunately, at the time. And I just didn't know enough to it's one of my biggest regrets as a parent. I didn't know enough to stand up and say this is not good because he wasn't the only one affected, and I should have fought harder for him. And unfortunately, we admitted our mistakes and we apologize to not getting him a great youth group, but he still kept going to church with us. He comes, he's never not gone to church with us unless he works. I I can see in his faith, um, he struggles, he has a lot of struggles, but I know that he loves Jesus. I just we now I have to watch as a an adult parent watching him choose to maybe not force the issue to I don't want to work on Sundays. Where you know, I know you can do that, you can say. Um that that part's hard for me to just sit back and and watch because you know I want him to have a great, deep, deep relationship with Christ. His younger brother has always been built a little different. Um, in fact, our pastor actually asked him one time how old he is. He's 17 at the time. He's like, Well, I'm like he was all always dresses in suits and stuff for church. I mean, he just doesn't look like a 17-year-old at the time. He's like, Well, you know, I'm I'm 17. And he's like, No, how old is the man inside of you? Like 40, 50. So with Elijah, I've never really worried as much, but I pray for him in a different way that as he continues to grow, he's studying um Christian ministries and wants to be a professor ultimately in a um public university and and take things on. Um, I pray that he allows himself to be open and allow himself to be humbled when God needs to. Because I think there's sometimes where he is so, this is how this is, this is how churches should be, this is how things should be, that I think sometimes he doesn't see how dad and I raised him. Like you can pray, but don't be so black and white. Let yourself, you know, allow God to move in you. So I'm waiting for that to happen for him. But uh I'm I I fully suspect that both my boys will have their kids in church. And I think that the legacy my in-laws have brought, I hope they'll see the legacy continue through their lives spiritually.

SPEAKER_02

You know, I I am a strong believer in this that um you as parents um you can you can do what you can do with your children, you raise them in a godly fashion. Ultimately they will make their own decisions. I mean they just every individual out there, right? We sow the seeds, they'll make their own decisions. However, you should you should feel great about the fact that you've provided a foundation for them. If they go off and do whatever, and they never had a foundation to come back to, they would they wouldn't know. Um, but the fact that you've provided that foundation is wonderful. And when I look at the scripture you use, Psalm 30, verse 5, um paraphrasing a little bit, weeping may stay for the night, but joy comes in the morning. Um what was what was David saying there, right? Like I think he's I think he's saying that that those hard times are are short term.

SPEAKER_05

This too shall pass.

SPEAKER_02

This too shall pass. And that joy really represents the renewal and and God's restoration um that will be permanent. So that that joy will be there for sure. Um what else? Any anything else you wanna say like about um this kind of transition period? I said before, I believe that kids are fully out of the household when they're off your cell phone plan.

SPEAKER_00

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

You can laugh. That's a joke. You can laugh, yeah, but I believe that. I don't think they're fully out until so you're in that middle middle section there.

SPEAKER_05

Um I think that um people that are starting to experience this need to know that it is okay to be to to grieve the loss. Because for me, I'm grieving the loss. Even though I still have my babies and I still love them and we still have a great friendship, I'm grieving that loss. I've already been through a loss of an actual child, and now I'm grieving the loss of like, I'm not telling you to go to bed at nine, I'm not telling you to do your homework, or you can't go out in the house wearing that. I'm not and I'm no longer making your doctor's appointments. Like, in fact, when Tarbers was 18, he turned 18 at COVID. And he had to go to the Secretary of State's office to get his license, and this is when they were doing the appointments only, no more than so many people allowed in. Well, he just turned 18 by two days. So we made the appointment, we were gonna go in, and she stopped me at the door. And I'm like, What? He's 18. I said, Yeah, I know, but only by two years. I'm like, no, he's 18, he's an adult now. I'm like, no, he only turned 18 two days ago. That's that's not that's a number, he's not an adult. And she's like, we got him, mama, it was fine. So it is it's been strange to take this on. So I want people to know it's okay to grieve because it is a little bit of a loss. You gotta find a new a different type of identity, and that's what I'm going through. But I've also have a Spotify list that's just called Joy, and I play it almost every day when I'm in the car. It's like 20 minutes. Um, I've got Joy from King and Country, uh Joy in the Morning from Taryn, um, I forgot his last name. Thank you, Taryn Wells. I and an old news boys, way old newsboys, Joy, a Joy of Rent Collective, and it just it helps me to know, you know. Yeah, I'm it's okay, I'm greedy, but I know that, you know, I got this. And then, you know, and then I do find little joys when Elijah calls and texts or when Trevor wants to go to have lunch with me. So I am finding it.

SPEAKER_02

That's great. Worship in the car. Love that.

SPEAKER_05

All the time. 20 minutes long.

SPEAKER_03

If anybody wants to know, just email me. I just made my all-time spaves list on Sunday while I was like in bed. I'm like, these are my all-time faves from the last four years.

SPEAKER_05

My kids don't like it, they get tired of hearing joy from being country. Three, two, one, yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_03

I don't care.

SPEAKER_05

I play it all the time.

SPEAKER_03

I play everything on repeat, and Chris and Curti are just like, eh, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Brie. Yes. Favorite part of motherhood.

SPEAKER_03

I think mine's a little bit, again, unique because I just don't have the same experience that a lot of mothers have. So I didn't get to see the childhood. I didn't get to see all that stuff. And so mine is actually the joy of getting to see Carday in particular because we only got three years with Khalil. You know, he's I mean, he comes home on Christmas, he comes home on summer, but you know, he's got a job and he's gone, he's like out. So we're not, we don't get to be with Khalil as much. Um, but my joy recently has just been watching Carde be Chris. Like the amount of like I have the most perfect husband ever. I don't know if this if you guys have met Chris. My husband is like top notch. I am batten way out of my league. And he is just the most amazing man that is just so even-tempered and does everything. And to see Carde like emulate that and like want to be Chris. And in particular, like we had dinner with Carde's girlfriend's family while they were at prom. And we all like we just sat around because they're just the sweetest kids. And we sat around talking and everything. And his girlfriend's dad said, I wanted to hate her first boyfriend so bad. I wanted to like drive him away. And then he goes, You can't be mean to Carde. And that's what I said in my videos like it's Carday, like you can't discipline Carda. He's so nice. And every adult I talk to is like, he's so nice. And I'm like, it's because he's his dad. And it's like weird to be able to say that because you know, Chris is not biologically his dad. And so I think my favorite thing is just seeing that nature plays a big part, but nurture plays a massive part in who our kids become and how we treat them and how we speak to them and how we interact with them. And so every time I see Carde do things that his dad does in like a really positive way, I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're gonna be so great. And then like Khalid, how he just like puts Khalid takes a lot of things after me, which is not necessarily a good thing, but he he just puts his head down, he gets stuff done. Like that's how I am. I am like, okay, we're getting all these things done. And Khalil's like headphones in, you know, and even at like Walmart, he's stuck in the shelves and he's like, he's such a like tedious, meticulous kid. And so just seeing that aspect of our kids being us, even though they're I think this is awesome.

SPEAKER_02

I hear this joy theme. Um it's obvious how proud all of you are of your children. That's gotta feel good that you're raising them in God's word. Um you're raising them uh in his ways, and it makes you so proud. Annie, any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01

My favorite part of motherhood is watching all of the firsts. And yes, the everybody talks about, you know, first words, first steps, you know, when they start crawling. My my youngest just started crawling this past week, and it's like, oh, finally you're happier. Um but also with with my oldest, just you know, she's kindergarten, so she's learning how to read, but just the way that she's thinking about things in new ways and starting to put connections in the world that she hasn't seen before, and just knowing that God made her and God made that big beautiful brain, and I get to be a part of helping her grow and learn. And I get a little glimpse of where she's gonna be when you know, when she's in high school and then gone away, and maybe with her own kids, and you know, all of them. Like I get little glimpses of their personality and little glimpses of the future, and I'm excited to just be on the other side of it too, and to see, you know, how it all turns out.

SPEAKER_02

That is fantastic, mothers. I just want to remind you of this. You are character formers for your children, you teach truth, you model strength and wisdom, and you are building a foundation that lasts into adulthood for your children. And I just want to leave you with that because what you do is so special. So thank you for being here with us today on Grounded.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, thank you.