Developing Your Palate #1

You are listening to the Cigar Rebel podcast. In this episode of Cigar Rebel we kick off a four part series on Developing Your Palate. Join the conversation as we take the time to enjoy one of life’s luxuries on this quirky journey we call life.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Welcome to the Cigar Rebel community, where indulgence meets authenticity. This is more than a podcast. It's a gathering place for those who savor life's luxuries with unapologetic passion. Here we celebrate the fine art of living through rich flavors, bold spirits, exquisite cigars, and unforgettable experiences.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Welcome, Cigar Revels, to the podcast. I'm Mel.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

And I'm Kevin, and we're coming to you live tonight from our garage. We're sitting out here because we've started building the new deck and patio on our new location in the Dallas for Orth area. And that's happening in the back. And we thought it would be done tonight, but it's not. But we're coming to you live tonight with an episode that we're really excited about. This is part one of a four-part series called Developing Your Palette. And we're really excited to bring this to you over the next several weeks.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yes. And so as Kevin said, this next series is going to be broken out into four episodes spanned over the next few episodes for the next few weeks, or maybe even the next month or so.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah. So one of the things is we're excited to do this particular series for many reasons. Um, but we didn't want to do them back-to-back episodes. So it's not this week, next week, it's not four straight weeks. It's really four different episodes over about 13 weeks. Um, there are some other topics we wanted to make sure we got to and handled and made sure we brought you the most up-to-date information, but we still wanted to build this series out where you could go back later and look at that and have this resource. So we're really excited about that. Um, because at the end of the day, Mel, we're trying to bring education to those rebels out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, 100%. So uh just jumping in to the topic starting us off. So, how many times have you heard someone say that they taste the leather or the barnyard or the toasted oak and has maybe the memory of autumn?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, absolutely. And they always say it with such confidence, right? It's a hundred percent confidence. Uh hey Richard, hey Leslie, good to see you guys tonight.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah, and I think meanwhile, also we have people who maybe even the guy sitting next to him is like, really, I just taste smoke.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Right, yeah, absolutely. It's the funniest thing in the world, right? So tonight we're gonna fix that. Um, or at least help build a baseline for developing your palate.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yes, and that is gonna be great news for each of us that there is room to develop and explore.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, and so it doesn't matter if you're a novice, um, new to cigars or aficionado, someone who's been smoking cigars for a really long time, um, maybe even decades, tonight's an episode about how do we hone our palate and make it better.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Yes, uh, because developing your palate is not just about sounding impressive.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Right, absolutely. It's really about understanding what you're experiencing, Mel. It's about understanding what you're purchasing. And once you understand the process, tasting cigars becomes one of the most enjoyable parts of this hobby.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Sorry, I was laughing at the uh comment from Leslie.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Leslie, Kevin, you look really cold. Uh, it's a chilly night, and so it's somewhere around 30 degrees here at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

And it was 90 yesterday, so I like to throw that in there.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, it was 90 the last two days. The high today was 38. And so um it's definitely one of those things, and I get really cold. And so for those of you that weren't on earlier, we're shooting from our garage tonight in our new location in the Dallas Fort Worth area because our patio and deck and outdoor smoking area that's full of heaters was absolutely not finished. It's actually gonna be finished Wednesday or Thursday, so we're running behind. Uh, they had to put in a bunch of concrete and it just takes longer to dry when it's cold.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Uh so yeah, we're excited. We're getting back to the topic though.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yep, so going back, so today we are going to be walking through how to taste the cigar without sounding fake. So let's go ahead, Rebels, and cut light and settle in.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Absolutely. And Mel, before we get too far, what are we smoking tonight?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

So we are smoking the high maca maka by Left Hand Cigars. This has a Connecticut broadleaf wrapper, Nicaraguan binder, and Nicaraguan fillers. And I'm excited to light this up. First cigar of the day.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah, absolutely. So this is yeah, first cigar for you. This is my second or third cigar for me today. Um, but excited to smoke this. Um, Left Hand Cigars is out of the Fort Worth area. They're part of the Ohano Nuall um group, and so super excited to smoke this. No, what are you getting on the cold draw?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

So I'm getting some sweet baking spice along with some, I would say, like a maybe a woodiness or like a barrel wood. Um that's what I'm getting. It's creamy even in the cold draw so far.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

I mean, there's a slight creaminess there. There's a heavy barnyard or earthiness to it. Um, I get a little bit of a sweeter baking spice, not quite an all-spice, but just a little softer than that. But, you know, it's it's definitely there. I'm excited to light this up and begin to see um how it treats us. Um, it's been a little while since I've smoked this. We were actually just hanging out with these guys a couple of days ago in an event we were doing, but they were smoking our cigars. Uh, so it's hard, but um, we're gonna go ahead and get to the lighting this, and the lighting is brought to you tonight by Big Sky Cigars.

SPEAKER_05 5:52

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SPEAKER_04 6:10

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SPEAKER_05 6:28

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SPEAKER_04 6:48

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SPEAKER_07 6:54

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SPEAKER_03 7:08

As always, thank you to Big Sky. Now that we have this lit and we've maybe gotten to take one or two draws off it, how are you feeling about that?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah, no, it's great. You get that um tanginess that you always get off of a Connecticut broadleaf. This Connecticut broadleaf is actually Asian to a little bit more of a Maduro. Um, and so definitely getting that savoriness, that kind of twang that's there. And it's not a bad twang. Don't hear me saying that as a negative. I get it on almost all Connecticut broadleaf, and some people really love it or they don't. Um, but that's the first thing. I've only had a few draws. Um, you know, it's not like the ash holes, one draw, that's the law. I mean, we're not there. Uh, we definitely want to spend time letting this develop. But, you know, the first draw on it, the cigar is great. Yeah, I mean, it's got a good flavor, it kicked off very well, um, and definitely think it's gonna be an enjoyable smoke.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah, I agree. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Um, the smoke is actually very, very creamy um on the mouth fill. Um, it's got a nice production here from the foot of the cigar, but on the mouth feel, it's very creamy. And so I'm excited to see where that takes us. Like I said, it's been six, seven months since I've smoked this cigar, so it's been a little while. Yeah, me too. So I'm excited to kind of dig into it. Um, let's get right into the topic tonight, and let's start really with the obvious question tonight, Mel. Um, why even develop a palette? Why is it important?

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Yeah, so that is going to be because cigars are uh complex agricultural products, and really everything involved in that is going to impact the flavor notes, the strength, and also the overall profiles. Yeah. So you're going to be having different soils, you're going to have different leaves from different parts of the plant, you're going to have different primings and different harvesting processes, and then there's different curing and also the different fermentation process.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, 100%. Each of these factors truly impact the flavor profile of the cigar, what you're going to be picking up on it when you're smoking it. Um, and all of this during the all of these processes you talked about, they impact the tobacco leaves from the um initial nursery through the growing, through the harvest, the fermentation, all of those have a true impact on that leaf.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah. And then I think you also are followed by the aging of the tobacco, even before it hits uh the cigar bunch's table. You have those to factor in as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, absolutely. And then once the cigar goes through the bunching and someone rolls it and it's ready, then there's an entire aging process that happens once the cigar has been manufactured. And depending on different manufacturers, different parts of the world, that can be very, very different from um really going through a dry box process or going through a high humidity. Um, there's some cigar groups out there, we're not going to say who that uses a hot aging process, which actually creates a stronger, a little bit more pepper cigar versus a cold aging process.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Um, for those of you out there, cold really isn't cold, it's just not hot. Um, and so it's really, I would just call it the normal process. Um, but as we've been at factories, they call it a cold process. I'm not sure why. Um, maybe because in Central America, 70 is cold.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

But you know, so there's all these different things that are impacting the process post-age in every step, every variation in the preparation has a final impact on that flavor profile and the notes that are picked up while smoking.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Yes. So, really, in summary to that, the growing regions, the soils, uh, the growing and the harvesting process, as you kind of touched on a little bit, followed by that curing, the fermentation, and also the aging is going to impact every single cigar's final performance.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, absolutely. And another variation really comes in the blending and rolling of the cigar. Um, the tobacco placement throughout the cigar matters. Um, when you're bunching, you're often tearing the tips off and placing them throughout. Um, there's a very standard process, and then some blenders actually mix that process up or invert those leaves in order to create different transitions, or sometimes they're trying to keep and create the most consistent smoke. And you really, we're gonna get into that here in a little bit, but it really is that variance of a cigar that smokes the same from start to finish versus those that has a lot of transitions.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yes. And so when you're smoking that cigar, the flavor on that can really remain the same, or it can change throughout the progression of the cigar and of the smoking experience that you have.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, absolutely. And many reviewers and smokers will often say that transitions makes the cigar complex. But in reality, that's only one form of complexity.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yeah, that is so true. So uh I want to share just two different ways uh a cigar can be complex. And a cigar smoker, you may prefer one over the other, and you may experience or experiment with both to discover which one you prefer better.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah, far too many smokers or viewers will say that if a cigar doesn't transition, it's not complex. Um, and that all smokers all want transitions, and that's just not true. Um, in truth, the opinion really spiked over the past decade or so as cigar influencers came onto the scene and began to talk about the different transitions of a cigar.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Yes. And so going back to that complexity, first, the cigar can be complex based on the variety of flavor notes or aromas you are getting on that cigar. So the cigar remains constant from start to finish. However, there is those complexity notes. Um, you can also pick up several notes or flavors on each draw, or they can be slightly different in each draw.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah, I mean, this type of complexity is very similar in the type of complexity found in whiskey or bourbon. Um, I'm not a big wine drinker, but you do hear it um from wine aficionados as well, when there's simply a lot of different notes on each sip or swish or whatever you want to do. And connoisseurs would describe whiskey or wine as complex because of the number of different flavors in every drink. Um, cigars are very similar where you can get a lot of different flavors on every draw. Um, you and I talked about the earthiness, the creaminess of the smoke. Um, there's that barnyard, um, that woodiness. And I'm picking that up. We're very there's not been any time for this cigar to transition. It's just there. So there's a complexity from the very beginning. Now it may transition. I can't remember this cigar. As I said, it's been six or seven months since I've smoked this particular cigar. Um, I've been smoking their um blurred lines more than this one. Um, but when you look at that in a similar manner, when you have rich or savory foods and there's just an explosion of flavor in every bite, you would call that complex. You wouldn't say, well, this is bland because it didn't transition from the first bite to the last bite.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Right, right. And in each of your scenarios, Kevin, you would not want the flavor profiles to transition to something else completely, really, for that. And you would still describe them as complex.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, absolutely. Um if I have a phenomenal short rib from the first bite, I don't want halfway through it, it's a change.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Yeah. Um that would be alarming.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Now, there are some times that in a cigar, I enjoy the transition. All I'm saying is one way that a cigar is complex is the multitude of flavors in that draw. You may pick that up every draw, or each draw is a little different, but the cigar stays consistent from the first few centimeters all the way through until you just put it down.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Right. Now, the second way that a cigar can be complex, Mel, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, so the second way, um, it's gonna be due to the transitions throughout the smoking experience. So, in this scenario, the cigar starts out with one flavor profile or strength and then uh transitions as you progress. So this can occur at the one-inch mark, halfway through, or even as you transition from maybe the first, second, or thirds of the cigar. That's why oftentimes we check in with the cigar multiple times throughout the show because there could be some transitions in there. So the interesting point here is that each portion of the cigar is uniquely complex before and after the transition.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yep, absolutely. So sorry, we're facing technical difficulties for a second here. How's this sound for everybody? We're just trying to, we had a pop-up that kicked us off and want to make sure. Um, so if you are watching live, we'd love your feedback. Um, talking about what you're just talking about with the first, second, third, the complex before and after the transition, and both of those having the opportunity to be truly complex. Um, we really wonder why people get confused talking about the complexity and flavor profiles of a cigar. It's because even in the industry, we're not having the same conversation. We mentioned it last week with the flavor intensity versus strength, how we don't even have that conversation, apples to apples. When we get into complexity and palate, we're not even apples and oranges. We're like maybe apples and beets, apples and potatoes, apples and a ribeye. We're not in the same category.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

100%. And so that's why I think some people can get confused, like you were saying, talking about the complexity, and it's because the cigars evolve as they're burning. So you're rarely smoking one flavor even when there are no transitions. And when the cigar has transitions, the flavor for progression changes as it burns.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, absolutely. And understanding the types of complexities and transitions or progressions is truly the beginning of developing your palate.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

And the baseline set, or at least a couple of fundamental established, is how do you develop your palate?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Right. And so let's talk about some rules. Okay. So rule number one is slow down.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yes. So if there is one universal tip across cigar guides, reviews, and tasting discussions, it's this that you slow down your cigar smoking is not a race, and you take one puff every 45 seconds to a minute. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

And it's interesting, right? Yeah. Sorry, I jumped in to cut you off. I was looking at something. Um, really, that pacing keeps the cigar from overheating, Mel. It preserves the flavor because when you draw too frequently, the tobacco begins to heat up quicker. Um, it can create more of a scorched or even a charred flavor note within your cigar, which isn't great.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah, absolutely. The scorched tobacco is going to taste like there is no surprise here, but burnt tobacco. And that is why I think beginners often think that cigars are harsher and more bitter than they actually really are. I think it's some of those key mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

And so the other thing you'll often see in cigar reviews is this concept of thirds, right? So what's the second rule, Mel?

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yes. So the second rule is going to be to pay attention to the three acts. So we have the first third, the second third, and the final third.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

And as mentioned earlier, each stage can bring transitions in flavor and in strength. And sometimes not at all.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Yeah. And for example, the cigar might start with a sweetness and a cedar, and then it might move into maybe some cocoa and some earth, and then it might finish with spice and pepper.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Absolutely. And so this left-hand making we're smoking started off with a savory and woodiness. Um, it really hasn't transitioned a whole lot at this point. But however, I mentioned the really creamy um smoke on the very beginning. As I take, there's still a creaminess, and it's actually gotten a little bit thicker. Um, and so there's been a small transition there. I wouldn't even call that a transition though, because we're really just in, it's just as the cigar is finally opening up and loosening up a little bit. But as we get into the second, third, or the third third, we might begin to see some different flavor notes come out. And that evolution would really be part of what makes a cigar interesting. Or this flavor profile is pretty dang good. I wouldn't mind keeping it throughout the cigar.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Yeah, I agree. And I think also just recognizing those shifts in one of the ways that is one of the ways that you build your palate. So, in the same way, when you're smoking the cigar and recognizing the flavor in there, this consistency from the beginning to the end of the cigar is really another way that you are building or developing your palate.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, absolutely. And so the third rule, and before we get into the third rule, if you guys are watching live or if you're watching us on the replay, go ahead and do hashtag replay fam and let us know what you're smoking and repairing with tonight. I'd also love to know what the temperature is where you are. Um, we were in false summer almost here in Texas, um, and we're gonna get back there pretty quickly, but it's absolutely uh uh true. And we did get a great comment here from Alex is also how your brain is wired. I'm Puerto Rican. My exposure to foods and drinks have wired my brain to recognize flavors differently, um, hence why my flavor notes may differ from others. Absolutely. And we're gonna get more and more into that, Alex, here in a few minutes. Um, so let's kind of start down that progression. Um, Alex had the perfect comment to kind of lead us here. So the third rule, or what we like to call the flavor multiplier.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yes. So let's talk about a couple of techniques that some will say changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

The first one being the retrohale. So if you guys retrohale, I'd love to know that in the comments. It is a normal part of your cigar smoking journey. Retrohaling, if you don't know what that means, it is releasing some of the smoke from the cigar through your nose.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds intimidating, but it's actually simple for those who can do it. And I say for those who can do it is because physiologically, some people cannot retrohale, however, most people can.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Right. Yes. And so you draw the smoke into your mouth, then you gently push a small portion through your nasal passage.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah. So why does this matter? Well, it's because your nose contains the majority of your flavor receptors. So here's the thing: your actual mouth and tongue have truly have more flavor receptors, but the ones in the back of your throat and your nose have more range.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yes. So when the smoke is passing through your nose, you're going to experience more of that nuance in the aroma and in the taste.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Absolutely. So Kings Highway said very much her normal thing for him. Um, and absolutely agree. And so when Samar, when I can't talk, it's why cigar smokers often say retrohaling reveals the hidden flavor nuances of the cigar. You can pick up different flavor notes with the retrohale.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Right. And so don't worry if you don't. You don't have to retrohale every puff. I think it's everybody varies, but I know some people who only do it once, maybe the whole time they're smoking their cigar.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, some people do it rarely, some people do it one, maybe once or twice every third. I have a buddy who's like every third or fourth draw. It really just depends on your preference.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yes. And honestly, don't fret if you can't retrohale. I can, but I don't do it often, and I still get plenty of flavor and enjoyment from cigars. So moving on, there's also another technique to ensuring that the smoke of your cigar enters your nasal passage where those flavor receptors are located.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Absolutely. So I'm going to talk a little bit about that. Um, I am one of those with the physiological I can retrohale, but I cannot get a lot of smoke through my nasal passage because of um stopped up because of some nasal issues. However, there is another way to ensure that you get that smoke in your nasal passage, the back of your throat, and it's what I call chewing your smoke. And so I'm going to demonstrate, I'm going to tell you about it in the demonstration. So you take a big draw in, and then you chew the smoke while it's in your mouth. And that motion will move the smoke around into the back of your note, up into your nose, where you can start picking up those refined flavors. And as you blow it out, it will actually bring that smoke back down into your mouth and out. And I'll show you what it means.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And so with that, on that one, you pick up you on this cigar, that woodiness, that creaminess has a nice zest or spice finish to it that I'm not picking up on the normal draw. But when I chew it like that and I retrohaled a few moments ago, I pick it up on that retrohale. I get that note when I'm chewing or retrohaling. I do not get that note on a normal draw.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Right. Well, I think by chewing that, that is also going to be how the smoke is going to enter through to your nasal passage and allow those nuances of flavor to be picked up.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Absolutely. And so, in the same way that you would taste many foods chewing on them, um, the smoke enters your nasal passage and allows those nuances to be picked up. And so it's very interesting. And so, um, are you rebels out there ready for a science lesson? I got a little bit of notes. Mill might have to read a little bit because it's long, but we have a little bit of a science lesson.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

All right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Okay, it's an important one, and one that rebels out there deserve to understand. I mean, we are trying to be educational, are we not?

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Yes, 100% educational.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Okay. So when you chew or swallow food, volatile flavor components are released and travel into the back of your mouth and up into your nasal passage. This process is known as retronasal olfaction. It's crucial for sensing the nuances of flavor. And so, Mel, give us the breakdown of that.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, so the breakdown of how this process works is while your tongue only detects the five basic tastes, which is sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and umame, your sense of smell provides 80 to 90 percent of the perceived flavor. So retronasal olfaction, did I say that right? Sure. Is the backdoor route where the odor molecules travel from the mouth to the olfactory receptors in your nasal cavity. See them make that into a schoolhouse rock.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, absolutely. The schoolhouse rock, there we go. So, but in the same way that the role of chewing and breaking down food and saliva begins to release those flavors into the back of your throat, into your nose. It allows those compounds to get up there in a very similar way. When you're chewing the smoke of your cigar, it's actually pushing that smoke back across the back of your throat, up into your nasal cavity, and you have the opportunity to really begin to draw in and pull out those flavors using your nasal passage. That's why when you're sniffing on an onion while biting an apple, you'll taste the onion, not the apple, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

So, getting to take this a little bit further when you think about the stuffy nose effect. So when you have a cold and your nasal passages are blocked, the aroma compounds cannot reach the receptors, which is why food tastes bland and it demonstrates how reliant on this backdoor pathway everyone is.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Absolutely. And it's very similar as I kind of mentioned earlier that when you're chewing and having your food, it's why all of that high concentration of those taste receptors, being in the back of your throat and your nose, it has a whole lot wider range of palate for you, that the retrohale, the chewing, really does provide a different flavor. Because I've often wondered early in my smoking days, like they retrohale and so they get a different flavor. Why in the world will there be a different flavor? And this is the reason why. It's why when you look at chefs and sometimes high-end tasters for both bourbon and wine, the mechanism, this the way your body works, is why some people will slurp or even chew very carefully, very slowly as they're tasting food, in order to make sure they're getting all of those flavors or they'll swish the wine around in their mouth to make sure they're getting as much movement as possible of these compounds up into the olfactory receptors.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah. So you're gonna see the chefs, the winer whiskey connoisseurs, the cigar aficionados, they're all gonna be utilizing the variety of techniques to ensure that the flavors reach the back of their throat and their nasal passages. So that's gonna be smelling it, nosing it, tasting it, um, swishing, chewing, all of those things you said. All of this is going to be to extract the most amount of flavor nuance possible in what you're tasting and hopefully enjoying while you're while you're tasting it.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Absolutely. I love that Alex said um that he chews um his smoke as well. I love that. Um, Rebels, as you work on developing your palate, it's why it's so important. And again, it doesn't matter if you're a newbie, if you're a novice, if you've been smoking for a couple of decades, you can constantly be working on your palate. And one of the reasons why is as we get older or as we go through seasons, our palettes change. Alex mentioned up in the comments a few minutes ago time, airflow, heat, all of that changes. 30-degree weather really makes the smoke and the flavor of a cigar get a little bit more dense and a little bit less flavorful. One reason while we're sitting in the garage instead of out in the driveway or off out in the grass in the backyard, also this helps protect from the wind a little bit, let's not live. Um, however, it's so important when you're trying to develop your palate or begin to hone in on those flavor notes that you slow down and draw on the cigar with intention. You should slow down and pay attention to the thirds, the first third, the second third, the third third. You should retro hell or chew, or maybe do both if you do both of them on the cigar throughout the experience to begin build up the receptors and flavor nuances. And I want to throw a caveat in here.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Okay. All out.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Every cigar doesn't have to be training your palate.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Like if you're hanging out with buddies, you don't have to be like, shh, I gotta, I gotta slow down, I gotta taste this. No. Two or three cigars a week. Take the time to slow down, to focus. If you're enjoying social, enjoy the social.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

If you're enjoying a movie while you're smoking a cigar, enjoy your movie.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Right?

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Take notes if you want.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah, absolutely. So back to the topic.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Yep. So going to part two of developing your palette. So the flavor categories and the flavor families, we are going to provide some tips and tricks on how to begin to distinguish some of these flavor notes or the nuances there.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Hey, Dave Scarvey, glad to have you. Um, yeah, and Mel, you said on to part two. We're really not doing part two tonight. It I think it's in part two.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

So in our next segment that we're doing in about three weeks, we're really going to get into those flavor categories. I don't want them to think we're going into those.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Oh, no, you're right. I totally misspoke. It said on to part.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

I was yeah, you're not on to part two. But in part two, we're going to move into those flavor categories and flavor families. And I'm actually going to dive into how to truly train your palate. That is, and I'm telling you, I've worked with a lot of people. This 100% works, but it doesn't work the way people think. And so you've got to kind of dig. So in a few weeks, developing your palate too in April, you're going to want to pay attention. I am super excited for that one.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

But for tonight, I want to move beyond the three rules and I want to begin to provide a little more insight before some quick tips before our break. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Yep. So let's go ahead and address the elephant in the room first and talk about where tasting notes actually come from.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah, and I love this one because tasty notes come from comparison. Your brain is matching the flavor experience to the memories. As Alex said earlier, growing up Puerto Rican changes his experiences in the way they taste food. Yes. I grew up in East, I'm sorry, East. I grew up in West Texas where everything tastes like smoke. Everything tastes like mesquite. And so my flavor had to be trained differently than Alex does.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Right. So for example, uh, reviewers are often going to mention notes like cedar, earth, hay, pepper, cocoa, and or espresso.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Yeah, and here's the deal those are not imaginary notes, they're familiar sensory references used to describe complex flavors and experiences.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

So, for example, in many of the cigar reviews, that you'll see combinations like earth, pepper, cedar, and saltiness.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, absolutely. And those are common building blocks of cigar flavor profiles based on the minerals that are in the soils and the tobacco oils that are found in the leaf and how things are cured or fermented.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Yes. So when someone is utilized more of the detailed flavor notes, those flavor profiles are connected to sensory notes that you are picking up in the cigar. So this is also going to occur due to those flavor profiles, maybe more than the actual flavor.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, and the other reason is the flavor profile connects to memories, right? Um, experiences both physiological and mental. Um, an example that Mel and I have often heard when smoking somewhere is someone might be walking by and they'll stop and go, man, that smells so good. It reminds me of sitting on the porch swing with grandpa.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

And it's such a sweet kind of thing, but that's the memory that it brings back to them.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Yep, 100%. And so before we go to break, uh, we want to talk about building the flavor vocabulary for just a moment.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great idea, Mel, because it's important to get a flavor vocabulary as you're doing this. Um, I want to set a baseline and an expectation when it comes to building and developing a palette.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

So here is the trick to building a palette. So don't chase the exotic notes. Start simple. So instead of chasing notes and saying something maybe like, hmm, this tastes like Himalayan cedar. Uh, you can try these categories.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

So, what is Himalayan cedar? Do you know? I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

I mean, I know Himalayan salt.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

So maybe it's like a Himalayan salt, but a cedar note.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

So I was talking with somebody yesterday. Uh, we were at Wild Cigars in um the Dallas Worth area, and we were talking about somebody whose recent review was the bubblegum wrapper that accidentally got left in the shoe in the back of the car a year ago, and I pulled it out and tasted it. That's what this cigar tastes like. First of all, if you have a bubblegum wrapper in a tennis shoe in the back of your car for a year, you should not be tasting it.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

No, there are some flavor notes I will never get, especially if that's the history of them, because I will not taste them.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

So don't chase these other notes. Now you might have an exotic note as a memory, but don't chase those, right? So, Mel, what should we be looking for?

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Right. So these are gonna be some categories that are probably gonna be a little bit easier. There's gonna be sweet, earthy, spice, or spicy, woody, creamy, nutty, and coffee-like. And I'd also maybe like to add, because sometimes people do get like spice or spicy confused maybe with citrus.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

So maybe thinking along the lines of a citrus as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, you're absolutely right. In the United States, we confuse white pepper, black pepper with zest, uh, of citrus zest often, because that's just kind of the way our palate's been built in the United States. Um, and so I think that's a great addition, Mel. Um, categories like sweet, nutty, and coffee have different variances based on your based on your experiences and the palette that you have developed over time with food and drinks. Um, as an example, sweet can oftentimes mean a variety of things from a caramel note to maybe vanilla and then others because we have such a wide variety. Um, sometimes I've even heard sweet be um referred to more of a toffee because it's that almost sweet bitter.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Yeah. How many times have we heard butterscotch?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Where I might not place it as butterscotch, but then when they say that, I can see maybe how they got there. So that also the nuttiness can mean that the skin of a peanut or a cashew or a cashew, but also to the saltiness maybe of a roasted nut and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's just really one of those things when you think about it, is coffee can really be the richness or the savoriness that you would get from a coffee bean, maybe a dark roast coffee or even an espresso. Um, and it's those savory notes that you pick up from those beans. I like to chew on those beans, and there's definitely a bitterslash savoriness to them. Um, and then also once your palate begins to develop, many of these sensory notes or these nuances of flavor will honestly begin to come to you naturally as your physiological and mental connection begins to kind of connect with each other.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

Right. And in one of our later podcasts from the series, we're really going to dig deep into how to build your palate's depth. But we also really want all of you rebels to know and understand that not everybody is the same, especially when we're talking about developing your palette, your palette with cigars. Not everyone is gonna pick up the detailed flavor notes on every cigar. And that's honestly, I always say that that is okay. There's never, I don't want it to ever be stressful for anyone or feel like they are missing out on something on the cigar because they're not getting those detailed flavor notes.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Absolutely, Mel. It's not a requirement to pick up all these flavor notes to enjoy a cigar. I know several people that know I enjoy this or I don't. Um, I know some shop owners and even a couple of blenders that don't pick up a lot of flavor notes, but they can tell you the growing region. They can almost tell you the varietal tobacco use in a cigar by smoking it, sometimes even by just smelling or cold drawing it. However, they don't pick up a lot of complexity. They're really able to say, hey, this is a great cigar, these things complement or these things contradict. So not everybody has these flavor notes, these nuances that have to be there. Is it fun? Is it enjoyable? Yes. Yeah, is it a requirement? Absolutely not. What I really want and what I prefer, and I think here at Mel and I both at Cigar Rebel is want you rebels to enjoy what you're smoking and to learn, hey, I love San Andreas, I dislike Corojo, I really like Cryo 98, I don't really like Coreyo 99, I love Dominican, I think Honduras is okay. It doesn't matter what it is. We just want you to be able to develop so that you're making better smoking choices.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Right. And I also think, too, it's worth mentioning, I don't want to say you can lose your palate distinguisher, but especially if you get like a cold or if you get sick, then you sometimes will run into people maybe who've had the flu, or they're like, I had a cigar today and I just wasn't feeling it, or maybe they loved it, and then they have it once they've regained all their sensors uh between, you know, taste, all that stuff, and their thought on that cigar changes. Absolutely. And so if you are a novice that is building and trying to understand your palate, or if you are a seasoned smoker wanting to refine your palate, you should focus again on those five basic sensory profiles. So that's going to be the sweet, the salty, the sour, the bitter, and the umami.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Yeah, and once you identify the basic categories, then you refine them.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yes. So sweet might become caramel, earth might become soil or maybe mineral. Spice, you know, you could get black pepper zest or zest, like we talked about, a black pepper. And then umri could be that savory, and that might become the coffee notes.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, absolutely. And that's how experienced tasters begin to develop their vocabulary. But, Mel, on that thought, we have a couple things to come afterwards, how you begin to build out and develop your palate. But before that, we're gonna take a quick break.

SPEAKER_06 42:04

We fell in love with cigars not because of the flavors or smoking experience or perceived steps, but because it allows barriers to fall between other humans and build deeper connections. For that reason, we've been super intentional to curate a space where people can find community and enjoyment with others, and cigars just happen to be the way we're doing it. For that reason, we are thrilled to be the one and only cigar retail store and lounge in downtown Lufton. A good story is one of the most powerful tools used to connect with another human. Sharing stories fades out differences and highlights similarities found in the details, or with the storyteller. Over the years, we have seen some of the best stories told over cigars and thus, new friendships are made, passions shared, encouragement given, and so much more. The impact storytelling has on the human connection is why we've decided to name our store and lounge stories. Because behind every good cigar and conversation is an even better story.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

As always, a thank you to our sponsors. Before we jump back into tonight's topic, let's take a look at our upcoming shows.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

So um, next week is the industry discussion, a discussion on lounges, reviews, and more. Um, very excited about this episode. We are gonna be sitting down with the owners of Wild Cigars in Burleson, Texas. We're really excited about that episode, and we're gonna be smoking the Submatch Royale.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

March 30th, we're gonna be doing consumer discussions. So that's a discussion on lounges, reviews, and more. We did this a couple weeks ago. Everybody loved it. On that one, we will be smoking the pumpkin by the elevated hemidor.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Um, coming up on April 6th, I can't believe we're talking April, just a couple of weeks away, is that developing your palette to the flavor categories and flavor families? I'm super excited about that night. Um, and we're gonna be smoking a fantastic cigar, the Rocky Patel 30th anniversary.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Yes, I'm excited about that. And then April 13th. We are at our one year mark. So we are doing one year of Cigar Rebel. So we are going to be talking about the hobby, the passion, and the craft. And we will be smoking the Cigar Rebel Winter Blend on that one.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Absolutely. We're really excited about that. So I know Leslie is watching. Dwayne might be working tonight. But Dwayne had been asking about when he could smoke the Cigar Rebel Winter Blend again. It's going to be in the cigar pack for April. We'll throw that out there. The Rebel Pack, you can pick that up at the Elevated Humidors website. Go out there, click on the Cigar Rebel at the top. At the very bottom is the place you can get that subscription. Each subscription that's subscribed before March 22nd will get the pack that month and we'll get it sent out to you. And we're very excited to keep sharing that with you guys and get all of those cigars. But Mel, before we jump back to the topic, what are we thinking about this cigar? How's it treating you so far?

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Yeah, so I have been smoking this a little bit fast today, maybe because this is my first cigar. You know, the first third, the cigar transitions were a little bit more buttery, a little bit more creamy. I had actually in the uh after the first third, for maybe that second third, it even transitioned, it was a lot more airy, I would say, than it is now. So even that difference kind of made the smoke a little bit more creamy. Um, and then the second half for me kind of had some of those dried fruit notes, a little bit of that spice or maybe some zest, depending on your palate.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Yeah, and I think that's where the retro or the chewing comes. There's that when we talk about the dried fruit, what I really get is a sweetness that's kind of associated with that spicy peppery notes, which again could very well be zest. Um, and so I think that's a very clear um kind of connection point for that, which would be really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Um, so definitely love that you brought that out because that's that sweetness that we're talking about. Um, and then there is just a mild spice on my lips, and I don't know what that flavor is, but I just put it all around my lips on the smoke, especially as I chew it and then blow that out. Um, it may be coming a little bit off the broadleaf off the wrapper, but it could also be from the smoke. And so uh enjoying this cigar. Um, if y'all have not had a left-hand cigar, um there's three different cigars in the left-hand blend. There's the left hander, which is the original blend, and there's blurred lines, which is their barber pole, and then there's this one, this is the high maca maca. Um, they're all a part of the Ohano DeWaw portfolio. Um, really love them. Um, there's some great guys, like I said, we were just spent this last weekend with them, and so enjoying the cigar. But let's jump right back into the topic tonight. Um, because I want to get through a couple things before we wrap up. We're getting a little long already, and one of the best ways to develop your palate is to track what you're smoking.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Yes, 100%. So you're going to want to write down the cigar when you smoked it and also what you noticed. If you don't always have a pen and paper handy, then I would always tell everyone when I started smoking cigars or smoking a lot of cigars to remember them. I would take a picture of the cigar with the band on it, and then I could use that later on for notes or for whatever I needed to try and remember.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yeah, absolutely. When I first started smoking cigars and was really getting into developing, um, I actually kept a journal and I still have it sitting on our nightstand in our East Texas um home. And I would actually, I documented the first several hundred, yes, several hundred cigars at the end of the night before I went to bed. I would sit down and write down each cigar I smoked, what it was, where it was from, what the blend was. Did I enjoy it? Did I not enjoy it? Did I enjoy it? And at the first, at that time, I wasn't even really knowing first, second, thirds. The first half I enjoyed, the second half I didn't. It got to the dub and it got bitter. Um, I would write down things like creamy, there was a mild spice, there was a good draw, I liked the aroma. But basically, what it did is it began to build a pattern that I noticed I loved things from Dominican Republic. And at the time, things from Nicaragua just really weren't my thing. I think it was truly a strength issue, not a flavor issue because I was a novice. Yeah. But I didn't know that at that point. But keeping the documentation let me go back and review and learn a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

Right. So documenting the country of the tobacco, the type of wrapper, the binder, and the fillers, and then how you enjoyed them, or maybe the nuances that you didn't enjoy, those are all super important. And this is also another great piece of advice is document when you smoked the cigar and also the um circumstances that are surrounding it.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Yeah, absolutely. So the morning with coffee, midday, after a heavy meal, at the end of a stressful day, at the end of a peaceful day, maybe what you're pairing it with. All of these influence your palette and can alter the taste and experience. Um, Alex says he has a cigar dossier with labels and my personal reviews, um, mostly because he has the memory of a squirrel. Um, actually, Alex, me taking all those documentation notes and not being able to find a good cigar journal led to the elevated humidor creating a cigar journal uh three years, four years ago now.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Maybe, maybe five.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

It's longer than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

It was a long time ago. It's still for sale on Amazon, and we actually get a small check for a little bit of money every so often because a handful of them will sell. Um, but they're for sale out on Amazon. You can search Elevated Humidor Cigar Journal. Um, and oddly, I kept using my pen and paper journal because I already had so many cigars in there. I never transitioned over to the cigar to the elevated humidor one. Yeah, um, but several people have. We've given away as gifts, we've given away at events.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Um, but yeah, over time, having this documentation is great.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

You're gonna start to notice how the different wrappers, regions, or even the varietals of the tobacco are influencing the flavor.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Absolutely. And here's the secret that nobody tells beginners the real truth about your palate in palate development.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yeah, so your palate develops very naturally. What? I know you don't have to force it, just smoke slowly and pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

This isn't like beer, right? Beer, they say you've got to develop a taste for. I never developed it, so I hate beer. However, it did not take me years to decide I love a great ribeye. It just happened naturally. As I grew up, as I ate more, I've gotten to where I just love ribeyes, and it's really hard for me to order one in a restaurant because very few compare to me at home on my green egg.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

I agree with that. Um, so it's also important, you know, to remember cigars aren't a test, they're a journey. Um, so absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

And most importantly, you should enjoy the journey, right? Um, you should pay attention. You can document what you enjoy, but do not turn this into studying for mid exams or cramming for the bar.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Yes, 100%. I think tonight's biggest takeaway, if you guys only take one thing away, is to slow down, pay attention to the to the thirds, and use the retrohale or the chewing method.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

And don't be concerned at all about sounding impressive. That's where you get to where you're sounding fake. I'm tasting the shoe leather of my childhood little league sandbox tennis shoe. That's what I got here. Or I heard somebody saying the other day that said, you know, this tastes like the leather of when you used to grab your glove when you played little league in your mouth to tie your shoe. I actually couldn't relate to that. I had my glove in my mouth a lot. Even me, the germaphobe, would grab my glove in my hand and lean down and retie my shoe. I can make a connection memory to that leather, but I would never chase that. But when he said it, I was like, I can agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Yeah, I agree. Uh I agree with that 100%.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

So, Mel, before we go tonight, uh, what's some final thoughts on this left-hand high makamaka out of Ahana Noah?

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah, I've got just a little bit left. This has been a great first cigar for me for the day, great cigar for the podcast for what we're talking about. Um, it's kind of sweetened up a little bit to have some of these caramel notes that are just kind of emerging for me in this final third, and it's a little bit sweeter. I'm not picking up nearly as much spice as you had mentioned, like it's on your lips. I'm not picking that up for me, but it could be because really my palate's pretty clean for the day.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

You're further than I am. I'm not as far into, I'm really at the second half of the second third, if that's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Um, and it's mellowed way out. That broadleaf twang is still there very much. And those light sweetness is still there. You say caramel, I say dried fruits, but I've been eating a lot of cranberries and a lot of fruit things lately. And so that may be why my is there. But here's the thing: this cigar is well portioned, it's balanced very well. Um, and it really hits the home run that we're wanting to do here with the Rebel pack and with the cigars we smoke here on Cigar Rebels is introducing you guys to brands. Everybody knows the legacy brands, and we love them, and we're smoking the Rocky Patel 30th in a few weeks. But we also want to ensure that we review and talk about. Um, if I was to review this cigar, I don't have all my notes with me um to give it a specific, but I would definitely say at a minimum, this is probably a 90. I mean, it's right there. I mean, it may be a little higher, a little lower, but um, you know, I haven't done that. But the burn's been good, the draw's good. We're sitting out in the very cold weather. And other than me dropping it, uh, the burn is great. It's got a little bit thicker combustion line, but again, it's 30-something degrees outside, very dry here in central North Texas. Um, but I've really enjoyed the cigar. And for you guys out there smoking it, I hope you do as well.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Absolutely. So, as far as our first chapter of developing your palette, thank you guys so much for joining us today. If you liked this episode, go ahead and leave us a review and share with your cigar friends and hit us up for any topics that you may want us to cover in future episodes.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, and if there's a cigar that you'd like us to smoke or that you would love for us to come out and actually have on the show or get in the rebel pack, let us know. We're open to bringing other cigars. We would love to know what cigars you want us to talk about. We are in not just topics, but cigars. We would love to do that. If you're watching or listening on replay, go ahead and drop us hashtag replayfam in the comments. Let us know what you smoked for the show, maybe what your thoughts are on developing your palette, or maybe some tips or tricks that you've felt or found over the time. Um, for now, like I said, this is our show. Next week, we do have a great interview on deck with Nathan and Chris from Wild Cigars out of Burleson, Texas. We're really excited to bring that to you in just seven days.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

Yeah, so we will see you next Monday at 7 p.m. Central Time. And until then, keep your cigars lit, your ash long, and your palate curious.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Yep. Have a good night, Rebels.