Developing Your Palate II

You are listening to the Cigar Rebel podcast. In this episode of Cigar Rebel we continue our four part series on Developing Your Palate. Join the conversation as we take the time to enjoy one of life’s luxuries on this quirky journey we call life.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Welcome to the Cigar Rebel community, where indulgence meets authenticity. This is more than a podcast. It's a gathering place for those who savor life's luxuries with unapologetic passion. Here we celebrate the fine art of living through rich flavors, bold spirits, exquisite cigars, and unforgettable experiences.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

I'm Mel.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

And I'm Kevin, and we're coming to you live tonight with the next segment in our series, Developing Your Palette Part Two.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yes. So I am super excited for this episode. Also, to start us off, this is perfect for this episode. So one time in the past, I heard someone describe a cigar as a rich, loamy soil with hints of barnyard elegance.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Okay, so the way you're describing that, I wasn't sure where you're going, but that's some poetic dirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Exactly. So the guy who was next to us, he said, Yeah, I taste dirt too.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, absolutely. I totally see that. I mean, and honestly, the second guy Mel's not wrong, right? Um, it's just he may not have developed the vocabulary yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Right. So with that in mind, tonight we are going to be doing something super useful. We're breaking down the flavor in a way that is going to help you define flavor and also aroma better.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Hey Leslie, how are you tonight? Excited to have you with us. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's no fluff, there's no fake language, right, Mel? Yes. Um, it's just what you're actually tasting, what you're enjoying, and how to understand it.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

All right, Rebels, let's cut, light, and settle in.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah. So before that, tell us what we're smoking tonight, Mel.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Uh, yeah. So I'm very excited. Tonight we are smoking the Rocky Patel 30th anniversary cigar. This one has a San Andreas wrapper, uh, a double Nicaraguan binder that is aged seven years plus. And then the filler is Nicaraguan and Honduran with long fillers that are aged five years or more.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah, absolutely. So, with this cigar, I absolutely love this cigar. Um, have smoked it before. Just absolutely beautiful band, as you can see. It's almost that Tiffany blue. Um, they actually say it's one shade off because you actually cannot use Tiffany blue. That is true. Um, I don't know how true that is that it's one shade off, but uh it's a great uh segment from them. But what are you getting on the cold draw for this Mel?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Hmm. So the cold draw on this, um for me, I'm getting a little bit, a little bit of nuttiness. Maybe when I say nuttiness, maybe not necessarily peanut, but maybe like almond or a more smooth shell.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

So I get a nuttiness, I get a little bit of that cocoa powder. Um, I put some notes when I smoked this the other day, um, and I put them in my notes here just because I it was a weird, it was like a cedarishy note, but when I smoked it the next day, I didn't get it. So I wrote it down. I'm curious if you guys have had this or if any of you are smoking this along with us tonight. I would love um to know what you're thinking. I'm excited to see all the comments out there. Um, Leslie, Rich, um Martin, glad to have you. Uh Popcorn uh evening, so excited you're with us. Um, Lou, um excited, got here late. We are smoking the Rocky Patel. Here, I'll throw the graphic back up there. Um, tonight we are uh let me get rid of your comment. You know, technical difficulties. I dropped my microphone right before we went live. My brand new$400 microphone. And so I was freaking out a little bit. Uh so trying to make sure that it was working. Um, but we're this is what we're smoking tonight, and so super excited to jump into that and get into the topic tonight. Um, Rich said he smoked it at the Dunbarton Jubilee, and it was a great cigar. Hey, I smoked that yesterday. Um, I would agree with you, it's excellent. Um, but I want to like this cigar mill. So let's go ahead and get to our lighting that's brought to you guys by Big Sky Cigar Company.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

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SPEAKER_03 4:41

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SPEAKER_04 4:58

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SPEAKER_03 5:18

Big Sky Cigar. We're heritage full with whatever draw.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

Find your rear red Big Sky cigar to pop. Ask your local tobacconist about Big Sky cigars today. If they do not carry them, shops can reach out to Brad Frasier to set up new accounts.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

As always, thank you to our sponsors. So tonight is part two of Develop Your Palette. And I'm really excited about that. Uh, so part one, just a little recap, was about building the baseline and the foundation of building your palette. So hopefully, since then, everybody that has come along with us has been maybe practicing that if you were wanting to. And uh, it was also about developing your palate over time and ensuring that you are enjoying the cigars that you smoke. That is always key. So tonight we're going to be moving into what you are actually tasting.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, it's really about how to make sense of it without sounding like a fool, without sounding fake, or that you're really just reading off the back of a wine label. Uh, no offense to the corns. I know y'all are big wine people. Um, but sometimes you listen to these reviewers and it's like they just grabbed a bottle of wine off the shelf at the local grocery store and slapped it onto the description of the cigar. Like, how are they getting fermented grapes grown in England in 1912? Right?

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

So uh we're gonna get into that tonight.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah. So because I feel like once you're talking about wine and cigars, once you understand those flavor categories, the cigars are gonna stop feeling random and they're going to start feeling very familiar.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Absolutely. And so before we talk about cigars, um, we have to talk about you. Your palate did not start the first time you lit a cigar.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Yes, 100%. And before we talk about the cigars, like you were saying, we want to talk about how your palate actually works. So, really, that starts as a kid, 100%. And you were figuring out what you liked to eat and what you didn't like to eat.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Absolutely. So Richard asked for us to share, and I don't want to jump in it because this is an important part of developing your palate. Um, but I wanted to throw out there because he threw it there and I want to forget, we will share a graphic in a little bit that shows some of those dates. Um, if you're taking notes now, May 28th through the 4th of June is we're gonna be there. Um, and so we're gonna be doing some things. We have an event coming up on June 2nd at say in Salem. And so uh big announcement coming for that, and we'll give you some more information. But we'll be there the 29th through really the third, visiting some of the two guys' shops and some other places around Boston and Salem. So, but as you were talking about, Mel, your palate began as a child, and at the most basic level, um, human experience five core tastes sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and umami, or what I like to call savory.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yes, so those are the five mouth tastes, and everything else that you taste is really aroma that's kind of layered on top of those, and that is the part that people miss. So when you're talking about maybe you taste chocolate, you're not actually tasting chocolate.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Right. And when you're tasting bitterness, maybe a little sweetness, and your brain is saying, hmm, this kind of reminds me of chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yes, and the perfect example of this is going to be coffee.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

For sure. Coffee can be bitter, slightly, slightly sweet, it can be acidic, um, but we really describe it as chocolatey, as nutty, as caramel. Sometimes we even say a stone fruit.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Um, when we're looking at those, and the same is true when it comes to cigars, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

I'm gonna tell you guys, there's a lot of tasting data as we were doing research for this episode. I mean, you can go down a rabbit hole when it gets to mouthfeel and taste, and we're gonna get a little bit of that tonight in uh part three, which is already kind of developed out four and five. This was originally a three-part series, it's become a five-part series. Um, the next one's gonna be great. We're gonna teach you how to build a palette. Um, this is what this has been, but we're gonna do some real practical techniques. I'm super excited about it. Um, but I chose to hold off some of that data and spread it out a little bit because we could probably talk the rest of this episode on just your mouth palette.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, 100%. Um, and talking about how your palate and talking about developing, so all of that your palate is mainly going to be developed through exposure. So, really, the more that you are experiencing, the more that your brain builds its library. And that's why you have so many times two people can smoke the same cigar and describe it very different.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, and I love that actually. I love that two people can be enjoying the same thing. And hopefully, some of you guys, um, as popcorn said, it's gonna be fun to smoke this uh Rebel pack with us this month. So hopefully some of you guys are smoking this Rocky Patel. We would love for you to drop in the comments what you're tasting because your day, your food, your palate is different than mine, and mine's different than Mel's. And so I love that you pointed that out because really what happens is each of us are pulling from a different memory bank.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yes, 100%. And I want to tell all of our rebels something really important, especially as we're diving into this, these chapters and chapter two. So hopefully everyone is ready. But if you don't taste cedar, it doesn't mean that you're wrong. What?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

It just means your brain hasn't labeled it that yet. You don't have a memory. Many of us didn't grow up in cigar shops or smelling cedar boxes. And if grandpa did have a box of cigars that he threw his knife in or his coins, or maybe he hid some cigars away from grandma in it, it probably wasn't cedar, or it's been sitting out and not in a humidor for so long, we never smelt it.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yes. The goal here really isn't to memorize flavors, it's to recognize patterns.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Right. And so that's what we want to do tonight. We want to connect those five tasting basics to cigars.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yes. So, Rebels, the key to moving forward is to begin with the basics from taste of cigar flavor and the categories.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah, absolutely. And so as we begin to do that, we want to present these categories to you guys because cigars don't always present as sweet, as salty, as sour. They don't always present as bitter. And so I really truly believe they present, and I can't talk tonight, but they present as categories, right? And so most cigar media, when they do a really good job, Cigar Journal, Cigar Aficionado, Cigar and Spirits are some of the I can think of. Um, Cigar Press does a good job. They tend to cluster things into families and do a pretty dang good job of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Yeah, so tonight we are using the five that are going to show up constantly. So there is earth, sweet, spice, wood, and cream.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So oh, go ahead. I was gonna say, so here at Cigar Rebel, we call this the bridge concept, and these are not separate from the five basic tastes, they're just combinations.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah, absolutely. And they're how we bridge the mouth fill to a cigar flavor. Um, Martin has said he doesn't get cedar or oak or sandalwood. Uh, can't get those yet. I agree. I pick them up on some things and not others. I'll pick up leather on some things and not others, and other people do. Um, and then uh Dwayne said that there are floral notes on the Rothki Patel Retro Hell. I agree with that. Um, as we get into the bridging, the bridging concept is those mouthfills to these common cigar flavor notes, right? So, an example, earth might really be bitterness or dry or some minerary notes. Um, and when it comes to sweetness, that might be a little bit more obvious, like a natural sugar perception or a fruitiness, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Right. And I think the sweet, that's not always obvious. Um, sweet can present in a lot of different ways. And in a similar manner, when it comes to spice, it's often trigeminal.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

It's a sensation, not just taste.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah, and try trigeminal is say that 10 times. Trigeminal, trigeminal, trigeminal, right? So trigeminal sensation is a chemithesis, and this is we're gonna get a little scientific on you guys tonight. It is a third sensory system where your mouth and your nasal cavity come together and they actually separate and create taste and smell. So that trigeminal process takes everything you're tasting in your mouth, everything you're smelling your nose, and separates them out and creates flavor notes. Yes. It's carried by what's known as the trigeminal nerve, um, which detects irritation, temperature, physical sensations from different chemicals. And that's why a jalapeno is hot.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah, I think that's a great uh great summary of that word, just a real quick brenot.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah, so a little bit of scientific for you guys tonight, because I've never heard this talked about on a cigar podcast before. I've never heard it talked about in a bourbon tasting podcast before. But when I dove into the rabbit hole, it is a hundred percent how you taste, how you smell, why they're different, yet the same.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, I feel like for sure I would have heard someone say that word on another podcast.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah, I would have remembered trigeminal.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah. So let's go ahead and we're gonna break this down a little bit more. So the next one we'll talk about is wood. So in cigars, wood, it isn't a single thing, it's a familiar flavor uh impressions that are mostly built from the aroma and plus probably a little bitterness or a stringy and also the mouthfeel of the cigar.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

So true. And the next one is really a creamy, because cream is really a texture with some mild sweetness included. And you get it oftentimes kind of when you're smoking a cigar and there's that creaminess in your mouth that in Rebels. Um, it's why developing your palate is so complex because in many ways it develops naturally, as we talked about in part one. But Mel, it also takes work to actually begin to connect those flavor notes, those creaminess into memory connections and references so you can begin to pull out flavors from cigars. It happens naturally for some people, it happens over time, but you can develop it and hone it like a skill.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Um, so we talked about, sorry, I cut you off, but you and I just talked about the five basic common notes that are found in cigars. And Rebels, honestly, that's simply the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yes. So the real problem with palette and these five common notes is that until your palate is developed, it's easy to mistake them or even to be overwhelmed by them.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, right. Absolutely. Um, this is why someone walks into a lounge and says, I do not like strong cigars. And what they really might be meaning is I don't like bitter, I don't like spicy, or they might not even like overwhelming flavor, Mel. It may just be a flavor explosion in their mouth and their sensory, it's just too much.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah. So I think it's a great time to dive deeper and peel back the onion on these flavor categories, which is funny that we are saying onion because sometimes people will pick that up in a cigar. Hey, Alex. So let's go ahead. We're gonna start with earth. And this is going to be the backbone of a lot of cigars. And you'll sometimes, when Kevin and I are doing our cold draw on here, a lot of times um on the podcast, we'll talk about we get that earthiness or I get that earthiness.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, absolutely. And it depends on the growing region and the soil. Earth can present many different ways in a cigar, which is why you get it so often in cigars.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yes. So here is going to be a breakdown of earthiness by origin. So Nicaragua is a first, and that one is going to be bold earth and spice. Uh, the flavor profile is Nicaraguan tobacco, is recognized for really its high nutrient content, producing bold, full-bodied, and robust tobacco. So the earthiness is kind of from the volcanic soil in regions like Estely, and it provides a deep earthiness, often described as dark chocolate, coffee, or leather.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Absolutely. And guys, tonight we're looking at our notes a little bit more because we're trying to make sure we cover the scientific part of this for you guys tonight very well. Um, so when we talk about the earth when it comes to Nicaragua, the regional specifics, you know, Esteli tobacco is often known for its spice and its earthiness, while jalapa is known for being slightly creamier and more subtle. We use halapa in several of our Nicaraguan blends that we blend. Um, Honduras is very similar, of course. It's just the country next to it. Um, you can walk between them. Um, yet it presents very different. It presents way more rustic and way more intense in earth notes. And sometimes people actually say that Honduran tobacco just tastes like dirt to them. Um, but the flavor profile is very similar to Nicaraguan. Honduras is a strong contender for those earthy notes if that's something you enjoy in a cigar.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Um let me talk about characteristics for a second. So Honduran tobacco is frequently described as having a flinty or raw, a rustic or profoundly earth flavor. Um, and I'm not sure exactly what profoundly earthy is, but I've seen it in several different um reviews of Honduran cigars. Um, and often people talk about the finish of Honduran tobacco having that leather. I was actually reading a review yesterday, not preparing for this, just having to be looking at one that somebody did, and they said on the finish, it tastes like they stuck their childhood baseball glove in their mouth. And I instantly thought of leather because that's what I used to do all the time when I was playing baseball. I wouldn't stick it in my mouth today, but as a kid, I stuck anything in my mouth to hold it while I was doing something.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, I guess that's true. I don't know that I've actually ever stuck one in my mouth, but I have smelled them. And the smell is very, you know, if it were a flavor, you would know how it tasted.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Well, it's like the mitt's been in the dirt, and now it's in my mouth, and you get the two together, tastes like Honduran tobacco.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah. So the unique flavor notes that are found in Honduran tobacco is why many people really they love it or they hate it. Um, that earthy profile is considered a strong choice for those looking for a savory, pungent earthiness rather than a more mild or creamy smoke.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Absolutely. So next we're gonna talk Dominican Republic, which is more balanced and subtle earth. Um, known for more elegance and smoothest, Dominican tobacco often comes with milder flavors like cedar, nuttiness, and cream. Um, the earthiness there, while the many premium Dominican cigars use a blend of Palato Cabano, um, they can offer earth notes. They're rarely as intense or abfront as Nicaraguan on Honduran counterparts.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah. Uh those are great insights on the Dominican. So um I think that that that's awesome. Totally, my computer is acting like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

So it's totally my fault. Uh so when you're thinking about the earthy notes, they present, like you said, many different ways, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So I was gonna say, so the different ways that they uh include themselves is gonna be dry, grounded, slightly bitter, and sometimes mineral.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, absolutely. And so you can think about this.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

No, so if you think about it, it really is that coffee um grounds, right? It's soil, it's unsweetened cocoa. Those are all those things that you pick up in earthiness.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah. And I remember the first time that I actually Recognized earth. And it wasn't really a description. It really just clicked for me one day. And I think that honestly, that happens to everyone. I believe that you will have that moment eventually for everyone in your cigar journey.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah, you're just smoking all of a sudden earthy notes begin to pick up, right? Um, I hated it at first, and I thought I hated Honduran tobacco. Yep. But it was really just my palate transitioning over as it was developing. And now there's several Honduran cigars I truly enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Um so next, let's talk about that sweet category. And we're not talking about infused cigars, we're not talking about sweet tip cigars. We're talking about the natural sweetness that shows up as a part of tobacco. And sometimes it shows up more than people expect.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

And to be clear, that doesn't mean infused or sweet tip. I know I just said it, but I want to be completely clear in that.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah. So this is gonna be natural sweet notes that show up in many agricultural products, like uh tobacco leaf. So it's not really like candy or like super duper candy sweet, or like if you're having like maybe the syrups in your coffee sweet. Yeah. It's gonna be more of a note or hint of flavor in a profile. So these can be uh caramel, molasses, honey, dried fruit, uh just all those different things, sugar, vanilla, and maybe sometimes that creamy mixed with sweetness.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah, absolutely. All I gotta say, I this band I just took off, even though this band is freaking huge, it peeled off so easily.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, mine did too.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I I love that. I smoked another company that many of us love this morning that has a small band on it and ripped my cigar apart trying to get it off. And it is this tiny little band.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

But yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Anyone from Rocky Patel sees this? Excellent job on the band.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

When it comes to that creamy sweet meal you're talking about, it reminds me a lot of almond milk or a creamy almond butter that you like to put on a bread. It's really that type of sweetness. And when it comes to the creamy and sweet note combination, I find that you often see this in more Dominican tobacco and cigars because they kind of lean in that direction more than, as we're mentioning, Nicaragua does.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yes. And so some people are gonna chase the sweetness. Absolutely, and then other people are going to avoid it completely, and neither of those are wrong.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, and I truly believe, guys, that every cigar smoker should smoke exactly what they enjoy, whether it be a premium cigar or something infused. I also truly believe that you can choose a natural sweetness or chase those creamy and sweeter noted cigars without needing to buy something with the sweet tip or an infused cigar. If you do, there's nothing wrong with that. But I don't believe that's where you have to go.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

So we got a couple of things out here. So before uh Richard said, Rebels, it's possible that a strong flavored cigar can ruin the subtle flavors of a mild cigar. Um, absolutely agree with that. So, Richard, that's a great comment. Um, and it definitely depends on the smoking order.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

If I smoke a really strong cigar um and then move to something milder, it it almost just tastes like cardboard. It's just not even there. Um, so just an example, um, I was smoking this cigar. This is the House Blend Corona that we smoked on the show a few weeks ago. Um, and I was smoking that before because I know that flavor, it's very flavorful, but it's in that mild. I knew we were smoking this Rocky Patel 30th anniversary. I'd had it before, I knew its intensity. So that cigar was not going to impact what I could pick up on this cigar. However, had I smoked a Neanderthal or an LFD double Lajero and then moved to this, even this stronger cigar that's got a little bit more bolder flavor would have just been washed out. Yeah. An absolutely great process. Um, and just as if you plan on having a multi-cigar day, you should plan accordingly. I agree a hundred percent. Um, because if I'm smoking three or four cigars, especially if I'm hanging out with buddies and we're gonna be having bourbon, or maybe I brought a coffee with me, I like to drink chai tea. Um chai tea, chai means tea. Uh a drink of chai um kind of in the winter months, and so I'll bring that over to the buddy's house and a um yeti. And when I'm doing that, I will go and kind of smoke a medium cigar and then a milder cigar and then a stronger cigar. And you say, why do I go down? Well, because after that first cigar, my palate's really woken up, and that lighter cigar pairs really well with the chai. Um, and then I want to finish my night with something stronger, and so I really do think that would be something that would be smart to do. Um, and then he said, Can you do a show on don't smoke the cigar if you're gonna have this cigar? Uh, that's absolutely a great, great example. Um Leslie the corn um said, What is your bourbon of choice? Man, that's a hard one.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

That is a hard question.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Um, I'm all over the place, but let me answer uh this. Mel, you answer first. I've been talking.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Um so I don't know that I have just one bourbon of choice. I do enjoy the um the widow Jane Applewood rye. Applewood rye. I like that one a lot. And then the Dickle nine year. The Dickle nine year. I don't like all of them, but I do like that one a lot.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah, so your favorite's probably the Dickle five year. We go to that a lot. Yeah, we keep, we've got a couple of bottles of those and the um 15-year, the nine-year uh single barrel or barrel pick from a store pick is always better than the 15-year. Um, if I was gonna choose, if I can only have three bourbons that I could have from now on, um Elmer T. Lee is one of my favorite um bourbons out there that I don't feel like you can go wrong with, but it's expensive and you and you've got to pay way too much money for it because it's hard to find and it's not really worth the secondary cost. Um, Penelope Havana, um, the Penelope Valencia or Rio, all three of those are fantastic. Um, and then one of my favorite um bourbons is Willet, and I really love Willet Rye. Yeah um and the purple top is spectacular, especially the um higher years. And then um there's actually a New Hampshire liquor store pick that is fantastic, that's a seven-year um that is probably one of the best bourbons I've ever drank. And when we're there in a few weeks, I'm hoping they still have a handful of bottles. They're supposedly holding six for me. Yeah, so we'll see. Um and so smoked a Didier cigar and was wondering if the money is worth the smoke. I've never had that one, so I'm not sure. Yeah, so um Mel, I think up next, what's next?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

So up next, we are going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll be talking um about all uh more of this chapter.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 29:32

We fell in love with cigars not because of the flavors or smoking experience or perceived steps, but because it allows barriers to fall between other humans and build deeper connections. For that reason, we've been super intentional to curate a space where people can find community and enjoyment with others, and cigars just happen to be the way we're doing it. For that reason, we are found to be the one and only cigar retail store and lounge on downtown Lovely. A good story is one of the most powerful tools used to connect with another human. Sharing stories fades out differences and highlights similarities found in the details or with the storyteller. Over the years, we have seen some of the best stories told over cigars and thus, new friendships are made, passions shared, encouragement given, and so much more. The impact storytelling has on the human connection is why we've decided to name our store and lounge stories. Because behind every good cigar and conversation is an even better story.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

As always, a thank you to our sponsors. So before we dive back into the topic tonight, let's go ahead and look at our upcoming shows.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

So next year we're next year, next Monday, which is don't be taking this year away. No, no. So uh it is next season or next year of Cigar Rebel. So next week we celebrate one year of Cigar Rebel. Man, I can't believe it's been a year already. Um, we're gonna be smoking the Cigar Rebel winter blend on that episode. Um, hope you guys will be smoking that with us. Um, and we have a couple of announcements around that here in just a moment.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yes. Uh, April 20th, we will be doing the PCA trades show, and this will be an update from the show. And on that one, we'll be smoking the Big Horn by Big Sky.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

On April 27th, we're talking about Beyond the Cigar, um, expanding your cigar circle. And so we're really excited to um get into that topic that night. We're gonna be smoking the Rose of Sharon by Southern Draw.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And May 4th, we are doing Develop Your Palette number three. So this will be palette building techniques, and we will be smoking the 20th anniversary Perdomo on that one.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yep, really excited about that one. Talking about the things coming up um for this particular um series, and I apologize that it's split, but next week, if you're in the Lufkin, Texas area um or have the opportunity to drive it, we're gonna do a one-year anniversary podcast event with a live audience. Um, it's a ticketed event for$20. You will get two cigars, some pours of Garrison Brothers whiskey, as well as different raffles. We're gonna be giving away some five packs and different things. And then anytime you purchase anything in the shop that night, um, you will get additional raffle tickets. And that is being sponsored by the Elevated Humidor. So we're super excited about that one. And then let's talk about some upcoming events. I know we talk about upcoming shows. Why don't you walk us through the upcoming events?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, so our first upcoming event is going to be on the 11th, which is this Saturday, at Creekside Cigar Lounge. We are doing uh cut in light and introducing our cigars to that lounge, which I'm super excited about. That will be in Belton, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yep, so then we're gonna be at the PCO Expo in New Orleans. Um, they're doing some shopping, some networking, and then also um doing some interviews for the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

This May 2nd is going to be Stories Cigar Fest, which I am super excited about. Um, we will have limited, two limited edition five-pack collections that is in Lufkin, Texas. Highly encourage anyone to come out for that event. It's gonna be awesome. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

On June 2nd, we our big announcement in is we are going to be doing a couple of different events with two guys cigars. Mel's going to be on the Ash Hills that day with Agnes and Sarah. Um, before that, we will be at the shop doing an elevated humidor event. And then that night, there's a big announcement that they have not released yet, so we're not holding off, but there will be an event that night. Um, and we will be there participating in that event and are really excited about that. So if you're in the Salem, New Hampshire area, we would love to see you. We're gonna be at Red Anchor one night, we'll be at Salem on the 2nd, and then that evening for the event that they're announcing here in just a few days.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yes. And finally, to wrap up June on 629, uh, we will be at Creekside Cigar Lounge. They are doing their uh monthly ladies' night, and so we will be guests there, or I'll be guests there, you might be there as well. I don't know. Um, but we'll be focusing on the ladybug that night.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Yep, absolutely. So we're excited to smoke the ladybug with them, and at that night, we might even introduce our newest cigar.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Well, we might. We're talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

We'll have to wait and see. Absolutely. So um, as Martin Rustani is often gets a lingering sweet flavor that stays in the mouth between puffs. Is that what they call a finish? Absolutely. That lingering, and some has a short finish and some has a long finish, and it really just depends. Um, but yeah, that finish, and I love that you're saying it's often sweet and pleasant. I also really enjoy a longer finish. Um, Richard said that he wanted to share that. I'm at another YouTuber, cigar critter at the Nashua shop, which is awesome. Would love to meet with them. Um, and I love Les and that's you, you can be there with them. Absolutely. We'd love to see you, Rich, and see you. Um, and then of course, we'll be back for the expo. We've already got everything booked for that and really excited. Um, thanks for listening to all the upcoming events. Also, make sure you go ahead and click that subscribe button. Also, you can go on YouTube and click the notify me so it will let you know a few days and the day of when the show's going live. Um, if you're watching this on the replay, go ahead and drop a comment, hashtag replay fam, and let us know what you're smoking and pairing so we can know that you're enjoying the show. And as always, you can follow us on Facebook or Instagram at Cigar Rebel with some more social accounts coming in just the next few weeks and a brand new website that's getting revamped.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Uh, what do you think about this cigar so far? Those of you guys smoking at home and also Mel, what are your thoughts on this cigar?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, I was just about to go there. So I'm about halfway through, maybe a little bit more than half. These last couple of Mondays have been super busy, and so I haven't gotten in the normal cigars that I normally do on a Monday. So I smoke a little bit quicker on the podcast. I don't know if that happens to anybody else that you're not thinking about it, and it just you just smoke quicker because you maybe haven't had as many cigars. So you're excited to have that cigar. But I'm really enjoying this one. Um, we talked about in the beginning, you know, that cold draw had some of that uh nuttiness, almond to it, some cedar. Um, it really kind of began with some cocoa in there, um, so a little bit of spice, some earthiness. And I'm almost in to probably the final third. Um, but the second third for me didn't have a lot of transition. It kind of stayed with those notes. I know I saw in one comment, I think Leslie said she was getting some marshmallow on it.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yeah, absolutely. So something I'm really getting out of this is that cocoa and that little bit of bitterness that I might call coffee is kind of slowly faded away. I'm with you. I'm smoking faster than I normally would. But what I'm really kind of picking up now is a little bit more of that creaminess and almost a transition to a molassesy kind of on the retro and the finish, almost like Martin was talking about a few minutes ago. And so, yeah, this cigar has been really great. Richard said that he'll be there and have a limited edition cookie. So I'm super excited uh for both of those. One to meet you in person, and secondly, uh to enjoy the cookies. I've heard fantastic reviews about. But let's get back to the topic tonight so that we don't run out of time and really talk about flavor profiles or categories, flavor families. I want to talk about spice because this is where the confusion begins to happen.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah, so because people think that spice is equal to strength, uh, that's really the problem is though that it doesn't. Uh the spice is a sensation. So you're gonna have pepper, heat, tingling, and you know, we talked a little bit about in chapter one, just going back, how you have your flavor and your strength in a cigar, and those are different. So if you're picking up spice, that's gonna be in the flavor category, not the strength category. Yeah, absolutely. Slow recap.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

And spice often happens the most in the retro hell, right? Um, earlier, Mel, you had mentioned that that trigeminal sensation that is a big part of the experience, right? It's this reality where your taste and your nose come together, and there is no better way to kind of talk about this sensation than when it comes to spice, right? Um, pepper or spice is really sharper nasal burn, especially on the retrohale. Um, that strength or kind of kick that comes, which is that nicotine irritation that happens or that feeling that happens with that. There's a dryness or the stringency that you mentioned earlier, um, that we often contribute to wood or oak or those tannic notes, much like the dryness you get in a wine or in a bourbon or whiskey. Um, and then you sometimes get the heat itself from the burn. Um, and so especially as you get into the second and third third of a cigar.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Right. So when people say that a cigar is spicy or peppery, or maybe they use the word harsh, or maybe they even say smooth, they are often describing that trigeminal effect, not the taste.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

And I love that because we're learning something. This is something that I hope you guys are learning, I've been learning, because some people truly love spicy cigars in the same way they love spicy curry, while others prefer something smoother or creamier. And again, tying it back to food and the curries. Um, there's like penang curry or there's like a green curry, and they're very, very different.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah. And this is a simple way that you can test for yourself. And so you can try this. Uh, one thing would be to eat a jalapeno is that burning and is that the from the triminal? Yep. You can smell the cinnamon, which is going to give you uh an aroma, and then you can taste sugar, which is going to be sweet. So this is going to be three completely different systems that are all working together.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Absolutely. And here's really why that matters, right? Without the triminal input, cigars would feel kind of lifeless and flat.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Um, you would taste those, you would not taste because you would lose the spiciness, the freshness, the aroma, the bite that comes from some cigars. And how sad would it be if every cigar tasted like cardboard?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, I mean it it's basically what is going to give you the intensity and the physical present presence to the cigar experience. So, Rebels, the spice flavor category, it is important uh in developing your palate because it often is where the triminal and the aroma combine to create that specific cigar note, like the peppery cedar, creamy spice. That's kind of where it's all going to click together.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Absolutely. And wood is one of those classic cigar notes, right? It's probably the most one, right? And the most prominent wood note is cedar. And so let's talk about wood for a few minutes.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah. So wood is, like you had just said, it is going to be one of the most common and one of the uh fun foundational flavor profiles in cigars. It doesn't come from actual wood being added, but from Yeah, there is no wood in here.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

If there is, there's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Um, but it actually is going to come from the aromatic compounds developed during curing, fermentation, and then the aging of the tobacco. Right. So yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

So, yeah, no, at its core, wood is primarily an aroma-driven note, and it is supported by a touch of bitterness, which is taste, and a drying tannic sensation, which is that trigeminal effect.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Together, these really create an impression your brain begins to recognize as different woods. Cedar comes out most often because of the tannins. And so, Mel, why don't you tell us about the most common types of wood notes that we pick up in cigars?

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah, so we're going to start with cedar. And as you had mentioned a minute ago, this is the most classic cigar wood note. It's going to be aromatic, slightly sweet, really clean. Um, it's often enhanced by the cedar-lined humidors or the sleeves, and it's going to feel bright and refined. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

And so, and so side note, when you talk about atabay, they rotate through different cedar humidors, different types of cedar, because it impacts the flavor of their cigar.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah, 100%. Uh, the next one that's going to be oak. So this one is heavier and going to be drier than cedar. It's going to be slightly tannic and sometimes toasted. And then it can give a more structured and robust impression. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

So next we're going to talk about hickory or charredwood. Um, this is one that I really enjoy. Um, when you pick up on some cigars, yeah, it's that darker, richer note. Um often, often, often it overlaps um smoky or roasted notes, sometimes almost a roasted nuttiness kind of compound. Um, it can feel bold because sometimes it even almost has that barbecue note. If you ever heard somebody talk, say ribeye or char on a barbecue or the bark on a brisket, um, you'll see that's really that hickory char note, right? Yep. Um, another one is saddlewood and exotic woods. And I love that Martin mentioned this one earlier because this is one I don't really ever pick up, but I definitely know people that do. Um it's softer, it's smoother, and sometimes it's almost a creaminess type of wood note. Um, in my mind, I'm thinking like a balso wood um type of thing, but I don't know because I don't pick it up a lot. Um, but it's almost more of an incense smell. It's almost aromatic that your nose is picking up more than your mouth is tasting.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Um, and so with talking about this, I want to be clear that not everyone is going to detect all of these wood notes. I know you said you don't really pick up a lot of sandal wood. Um, and so it happens. And really the aroma sensitivity is also going to. To vary. So people have different smell acuity like color vision or flavor. There's going to be the experience and also the memory matter. So you can't recognize cedar if you've never really smelled cedar. Absolutely. So flavor again equals that pattern recognition. And then number three is the context is changing the perception. So the same cigar can taste different depending on what you have eaten or drinking, the humidity level, your focus level. Do you have a cold or allergies? All of those things are going to impact that.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yes. And then the last one is going to be the language versus the reality. And in the reviews, oftentimes people will miss many of the notes. And in reality, people are usually perceive the one to three dominant notes, not the 10 distinctive ones.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Absolutely. So Martin said he's taking notes on these wood notes because it's absolutely going to be in the final exam, Martin. There's no doubt about that. No, but definitely out there. And the great thing about the podcast is it's out there. You can go back and review later and listen, or you can download it anywhere you stream your podcast, Spotify, Amazon, Apple. Back to the topic though. An important reality check that I really want to drive home for you rebels tonight is even seasoned cigar smokers do not always agree on flavor notes. They don't always detect the same notes. And they often describe the same sensations with different words.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Yes. And so maybe at this point, some of you rebels might be asking, How do I pick up and how do I distinguish the differences?

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Great question.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

I mean, that's a great question. And so if you are wondering that, don't worry because we have you covered. That is what part three of this series is going to be all about.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yeah, because we built this series kind of like an accounting class, right? Um, part one was developing your palette overview with practical tips around pace and focus. Um, tonight is the flavor notes or categories and how the taste and aroma begin to work together. Um, and then building your palette three is really palette building techniques or the how-tos. And I'm gonna tell you, we're gonna have some food with us that night, and we're gonna taste some different foods and walk you through how to use those foods to develop a great palette.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Yeah, I'm excited about that. I love pairing a cigar with food and just seeing how that impacts everything.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Absolutely. So do I. It's great. Um, and so it really is those things. And so, Mel, let's go ahead and round out these flavor notes we brought up earlier.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

So, for tonight, we're gonna go ahead and round them out. The categories are going to be the cream, which is the texture that is going to change everything. And cream is not necessarily a flavor, it's a feeling uh that sometimes has that hint of sweet notes to it.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Yeah, absolutely. And Alex just said that you know, wood is absolutely aromatic. And um, he had mentioned the olfactory nerve. Yeah, and that's that trigeminal nerve that we were talking about earlier. Um, when you begin to look down into it, it really impacts those flavor notes that we pick up when it makes your nose and nasal kind of perceptors work with your taste buds. Um, talking about creaminess or cream not being a flavor, it really is a texture, it's a smoothness, it's a roundness.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

100%. And so a creamy cigar can feel soft, balanced, and also easy. Um, and this is why some cigars they feel more relaxing instead of demanding.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Yeah, and so I want to bring some real application here, Mel. So let's talk about cream or creaminess, because it really is a highly valued characteristic in cigars for some cigar smokers.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yes, and unlike wood, it's less about a specific aroma and more about the combination of textures and the mouthfeel, you know, and is it soft and smooth flavors?

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Right. And at its core, cream is driven by a smooth, velvety mouthfeel or texture, um, low bitterness or a low um sharpness to the smoke. Um, often some it's really often supported by these sweet notes like milk or vanilla, kind of a light nuttiness. I mentioned earlier, almost an almond milk or an almond butter. And so cream is really a whole lot less about taste and a lot more about how it feels in your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Yes. So some common types of cream notes, there's gonna be sweet cream, and that is going to be soft, uh, slightly sugary impression. It's often gonna be paired with vanilla or a light caramel, and it's gonna be smooth and also approachable.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Right. And then you really have milk or dairyish type of cream. It's neutral, it's soft, it's rounded, um, really like milk or more like a half and half almost kind of texture. Um, there's no sharp edges, and then you kind of get into buttery cream, um, which is richer, slightly heavier. Um, it can feel oily or almost full. Um, if you have a cigar and you take a drawn and you chew in your mouth and it's almost got that buttery oiliness to it. Um, I love that in a cigar. And it's weird because you get that off of the smoke. Um, and that's really unique to me.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

And so, what about nutty cream though?

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Lastly, there's gonna be the nutty creaminess, and that cream is gonna be combined with almond, cashew, or peanut, and it's gonna add depth while also staying smooth.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

I mean, those that's a great little list of the creams, and so putting it all together to wrap up tonight, uh, maybe instead now you might not say, I don't know what I'm tasting. Right. You know, you can say it's earthy, a little sweet, maybe some spice with a creamy finish.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Right, and that's real and that's accurate. And here's the truth, Rebels. That's enough. You don't have to get to the deep level layers. I said this, I think, in the Develop Your Palette one, where I had read a review where somebody said it tasted like the gum that was left on the wrapper that he found in his shoe in the backseat of the car. Now, I don't know about you guys. I don't want to know what the gum wrapper that was left in my shoe in the back of the car tastes like. Yeah, I'm not gonna be trying that. What I really want to do is know was it earthy? Was it spicy? Was it full flavor? Um, because the reality is that's enough and it doesn't sound foolish, and you don't have to compete with these super detailed descriptions someone else might be getting. And so in the next couple of um episodes of this series, we're gonna go deeper into how do you really build that.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Additionally, so in part four, or maybe even part five, we want to talk a little bit more about how blenders actually create these flavors.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Absolutely. So Leslie had said, do I want you to read Leslie's?

SPEAKER_01 51:09

This is an excellent cigar. This is box worthy, and I do actually the um box that this comes in is very is very well done, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Absolutely, and so I am going to because I'm curious, looking, so on this cigar, just because it's interesting, I had to look up in our system. I apologize. So for this cigar we're smoking tonight is an$18 cigar, and this is one of those few$18 cigars that I would say is absolutely spectacular. Yeah, I agree. Right, and it's worth the$18, right? Yes. Now, you mentioned just a second ago about we're gonna talk in the fourth and fifth episode about how blenders actually create these flavors. And my question would be do they? It's an interesting journey. Um, but as you said, that's really for another day. But just to leave y'all with a little bit of teasing, I think the flavor process begins in the nursery. Yeah, not the nursery where you went as a child, but the nursery on all of the farms where tobacco seeds first get it planted and all these different um soil ingredients are managed.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Yeah, I agree. All right, so before we go tonight, we'll leave you guys with all of this stuff to kind of soak in and absorb and practice. What are your thoughts on this cigar? We just talked about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah, absolutely. So I I left that. I saw um he's there that um he's getting um Ennis, but Leslie has not. It really does confirm that two people get different flavors and sensations when they smoke the same cigar. Um, I am not getting Anis at this point. However, um, I have some notes there that I think I could see as that, but I don't know that I would describe as that. Um, there's definitely a minerliness to the cigar in this final third. Um, and there's really on the mouth feel, on the finish, a spicy cedar.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Yeah, I would say it's been pretty smooth. It's had a nice, smooth, robust flavor throughout. And it does make my mouth feel a little bit maybe um, it makes me maybe have a little bit more saliva than other cigars do.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Absolutely. I love Richard's comment. Mr. J is insanely descriptive. I agree, I can't get that descriptive. Uh, like on this cigar, the best thing I can tell you is that my lips have a little bit of a tingle on them. Also on the top of my tongue, it's still there. And then with you, I feel um right on the inside of my cheeks, a little bit of a almost a pressure from the smoke on the finish, and I'm creating a lot of saliva, which is why I keep taking drinks so that I'm not spitting on camera.

unknown 53:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Um, but absolutely love this cigar. Um, Leslie says she has a question for a future episode. How does the blending process change the flavors in the first, second, and third of the experience? That is a phenomenal question, Leslie. Um, we will definitely be jumping into that question um in the part four or five of the blending because we're gonna talk a little bit about how we create transitions, where the flavor profile and tobacco leaves are. We'll probably have some tobacco leaves with us during that so we can kind of show you um that process. Um and I might even talk Mel into bunching a cigar that night so that we can kind of show you exactly what we're thinking on that.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah. So as of for tonight, though, this was our episode. Uh, thank you guys so much for joining us today. If you liked this episode, uh please leave us a review, share with your cigar friends, and hit us up with any topics that you would like for us to dive into in future episodes, just as Leslie just did.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Absolutely. And if you're watching or listening to this on replay, go ahead and drop us a comment, hashtag replay fam, and let us know what you're smoking and let us know that you're coming along for this journey. Um, also go ahead and click on that notify button. Several of our next podcasts are out there, and we hope that you don't miss an episode because we love having you on the journey with us. Um, next week we have a great episode for you rebels out there in the one-year anniversary. It's gonna be a great night. Um, we've kind of got these show notes kind of ready for that already and what we're gonna talk about. And we're gonna cover a lot of things about this last year, what the next year's looking like, and even announce a couple of projects that we're working on, but not too much information.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

Yes. Uh so thank you guys again for tuning in tonight. We will see you next Monday at 7 p.m. Central Time. And uh until then, don't forget to keep your cigars lit, your ash long, and your palette curious.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Thanks, guys. Java good night, Rebels.