Developing Your Palate III

You are listening to the Cigar Rebel podcast. In this episode of Cigar Rebel we are continuing the series Developing Your Palate. Join the conversation as we take the time to enjoy one of life’s luxuries on this quirky journey we call life.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And the microphone.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome to the Cigar Rebel community, where indulgence meets authenticity. This is more than a podcast. It's a gathering place for those who savor life's luxuries with unapologetic passion. Here we celebrate the fine art of living through rich flavors, bold spirits, exquisite cigars, and unforgettable experiences.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Welcome, Cigar Rebels, to the podcast. I'm Mel.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

And I'm Kevin, and we're coming to you live tonight from the members' lounge of Story, Cigars, and Lounge. We have a small live audience with us tonight, and tonight's going to be a great night. We're going to be eating food along with our cigars. And it's going to continue the series, Developing Your Palette.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yes, I'm very excited about this one. I'm also excited. Tonight's episode also comes with a little bit of homework.

unknown 1:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Hey Richard, good to see you tonight and the other rebels watching. And homework is wonderful. It's the kind of homework I enjoy. It's cigars and snacks.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yes. So tonight we are not just talking about developing your palate like we have on the last two chapters, but we are also practicing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Absolutely. And we're going to start with a little teasing or a little tasting knowledge, maybe is a better way to put it. And then we're going to move into the smoke, taste, compare, and reset portion and how to figure out what your mouth is picking up. And we really believe tonight's going to be an episode to give you some techniques that is repeatable for you to begin to train your palate. And we're excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yes. So this some of the foods that we have with us tonight is we have some smoked cheddar, smoked gouda, we have some pretzels, uh, both regular and also filled, I believe, with some peanut butter in there. We've got some dark chocolate, some milk chocolate, then we've got something sour, and then we also have our savory piece.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Absolutely. And so the easiest way to set up for something like this is easily to grab something salty, something sweet, and something savory or maybe creamy. You don't have to go all out. You can start with two or three simple things and do it consistently with different cigars to begin to train your palate, or you can go all out like we did tonight, and we've got a few different tips to dive into.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yes. So all of this hopefully is going to be educational. Any of you rebels watching us on YouTube, feel free to let us know if you are pairing any foods with our episode tonight. And we're still cigar rebel. We're just teaching snacks now.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, absolutely. And I do love snacks.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I do too. I love snacks. All right, levels, let's cut light and settle in.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Absolutely. Before we do that, Mel, why don't you go ahead and tell us what we're smoking tonight?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

So tonight we are smoking the 20th anniversary Maduro Perdomo. It has a Nicaraguan Maduro wrapper, Nicaraguan binder, and Nicaraguan filler.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Absolutely. And this is a great cigar. What are you getting on the cold draw?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Um little bit of sweetness on there. Um, I think it's gonna pair really well with everything that we have snack-wise to pair with it today. Yep, absolutely. A little bit of cocoa in there.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah, I'm getting a little bit of a sweet granola, almost a breadiness on that, a little bit. Um, the cocoa's definitely there. Um, almost a little bit of a prune, or there's some kind of stone fruit on the cold draw.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Um, Leslie's in the house saying hi to Rich and Shigri's Tina's cookies would be great to pair for tonight. Absolutely. Popcorn's on. Excited to see him. Well, I want to get this cigar lit and get going. We have a lot to cover tonight. So we're gonna go ahead and light our cigars, and our lighting is brought to us tonight by Big Sky Cigar Company.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Back in 1905 on the Montana skies, 1007 factories, roll smoke further wise. Reminders a ranchers, black wine bring now. Big sky cigar because bringing that spirit back in.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yellowstone River to the bold big arm floor, Madison the reflect what we know. I mean from Nicaragua, Stan Race to the Ecuador.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

And every box helps our veterans men with warriors and quiet waters. We lend a friend's hand. It's heritage burning and every draw. Big sky skates, Montana's pride and low.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Big Sky Cigar. We're heritage full with ever draw.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

Find your rear at Big Sky Cigar to pop. Ask your local tobacconist about Big Sky cigars today. If they do not carry them, the shops can reach out to Brad Fraser to set up a new account.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

As always, thank you to our sponsors. So now that we have this cigar lit, um just right off of the first initial couple of draws, there is a lot of chocolate notes for me in this cigar.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, this cigar starts off almost as a chocolate balm or almost a bitterness espresso note. Um, again, I'm not tasting the Hershey's chocolate that we're going to be pairing it with here in a little bit. It's just those notes that remind me of chocolatiness, reminds me of a deep cocoa. Um, but sometimes you get that with a really good espresso as well. So I would say um this starts off that way. I've only had a couple of draws, um, touched up the lighting, um, but definitely great so far. I'm excited to see how this pairs as we move forward. Um, for all you guys out there, uh, we're gonna jump right into the notes tonight. Like I said, we have a lot to cover to get to food. Um, for those of you that are at home and not in the audience, we've got different plates of food here we're gonna be pairing with, um, as Mel mentioned earlier. Um, but really tonight, Mel, intro our topic.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, so this is develop your palette part three, palette building techniques.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, and part one was really how to taste, how to define what you're tasting without sounding fake. Part two was flavor categories and what those most common categories are. And tonight is really more about hands-on.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yes, so the goal is very simple here. We are doing going to be stop stopping all of the guessing, and we're gonna actually be able to start comparing.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of cigar education really says the same thing in a lot of different ways, and it can get confusing. And so um, tonight we're gonna be talking about palette development comes from attention, repetition, pacing, and making notes over time. We've been saying this throughout this series over the last several weeks. Um, we do not want to copy someone else's tasting notes. We don't want to rush tasting notes. We want you to take time and develop a palette, not so you can sound sophisticated, but so you can make better purchases and enjoy this hobby we all love a little bit more. Um, we've been saying it for years. It's really about emphasizing that there's no single magic method. Um, you build a palette by smoking intentionally and connecting what you're tasting to familiar references. We're just giving you some techniques to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yes. And tonight we are giving you guys a repeatable method.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Not a taste like us, not a taste what we're tasting.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yes. So we want to provide you with the knowledge and the ability to learn and figure out your palate and to learn your tastes and also your palate and give you those tools.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Absolutely. Um, how flavor works before cigars ever enter the room, before you ever take a cold draw, before you ever have your first light, we want to give you a little bit of knowledge to begin building your base.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, so before we uh go to putting food with the cigars, I just want to remind everyone what we have tonight. We have milk and dark chocolate, and then I think also some chocolate with maybe some toffee bits in there.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, so it's yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And then we've got some different cheeses that we're working with, and then uh some regular pretzels, some peanut butter-filled pretzels, and then uh cranberries, and we also have some meat that you cooked.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yep. And so normally I like to use burn-ins, but tonight we had smoked um short ribs because I couldn't get uh brisket made and then burn ins after that. So we went simple. Um gives you the same effect for that savory part. Um, and we just want to remind everybody of the five basic mouth tastes. You have sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and umami, otherwise known as savory.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Um, and those are the five basics.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

And umami is going to be savory, like you said. It's gonna be more brothy, more meaty, um, almost has an aged cheese kind of taste to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Absolutely. But flavor is way bigger than taste. Flavor is taste plus aroma plus texture plus sensation, which is where it gets interesting, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

100%. Um, and that's honestly why cigars can be so tricky.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, it is, and it's how you can end up having multiple people with different answers of what they're tasting. Um, a cigar might not be sweet like candy, but it can remind you of brown sugar. Um, it might not contain coffee, but it gives you those notes that remind you of sitting on the porch with a black cup of coffee, or maybe you like to add a little cream or a little sugar. Um, it can remind you of a rich espresso. Um, that's your brain matching the smoke, the aroma, the bitterness, the oils, the texture, all to a memory that you're reminded of.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

And if you have ever thought, like, how do people taste the chocolate and tobacco? Um, they're not necessarily saying that there's a hidden Hershey's in there. Uh, it's not hidden in the filler.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

No, no, not at all. There, there's nothing added to these. Um, cigars are a leaf that's organic and rolled together. There's nothing added to it. There's no additives, in fact, to be considered a premium cigar. There can be no additives. And so that would be a little different if we're talking about infuse cigars, where they do have a little bit of aroma or other types of infusion happening, but that's not what we're talking about tonight.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, that's a different episode.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Um, so they're saying that smoke can create a familiar impression, maybe the bitterness, maybe roast, maybe there's creaminess in there, maybe a cocoa-like aroma. That's why palette building is also really memory building as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, absolutely. And it's also where you can get away with um having flavor wheels or aroma tools that might come in handy. And um, coming up on episode four, we're gonna have and show you guys a flavor wheel and some other things around that. Because cigar flavor wheels really help you begin to understand a lot of different flavor categories. And as you look at them, go, oh yeah, that really tastes like this, or it kind of tastes like that, because there's broad categories like earth and wood and spice and sweet and creamy, as we talked about in episode two, but then it moves into more specific notes like cedar or cocoa or pepper or caramel, or as I said earlier, a dried food, dried stone fruit on the cold draw.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yes. Um, so we're going to take that idea and we're making it edible.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah. I'm excited about making it edible.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I'm too. I love colours.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

So um, this is my favorite kind of science, but I want to give you an important reality check. Even seasoned cigar smokers do not always agree, they do not always detect the same notes, and they often describe the same sensations with different words. If you're in a large room and somebody goes, Oh, I really taste this, and then two or three other people go, Yeah, I can see that. Often that's because of suggestion. Um, but when that happens, you're not sure exactly what it is, but when they say it, it connects it to a memory. But if you're reviewing in two separate rooms, taking separate notes, you all sometimes get notes all over the board. We run a monthly blind smoking um group, and we find that we have notes all over the place on the same cigar because when people are connecting it to their memories, to their palate, and then what you look at is okay, there's 20 outliers, but there's 10 commonalities, and that's what that cigar probably really tastes like.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yes. So here is going to be the basic technique we want uh listeners and people who are here with us in the audience to use tonight. So this is the cigar rebel draw, chew, and exhale method. So step one is you're going to take a normal draw.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Step two is you're gonna let the smoke just set in your mouth for just a few seconds.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Step three is you are going to gently chew the smoke. And by chew, we mean move it around in your mouth, let it touch your tongue, your cheeks, the roof of your mouth, just let it get all coated in there.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, and then excel, exhale really slowly. We still want you to excel slowly from your mouth. However, if you do retrohale, you can exhale a little bit and then retrohale the rest of your nose to give you both sensations. But the chewing process when you're pairing with foods is vitally important. So if all you do is retrohale, you're going to miss some of those receptors that were playing with the food. And so we really want to give you that opportunity to follow the process.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yes. And so uh retrohaling, it is a cigar smoking technique where the smoke is expelled through your nostrils, and it can significantly enhance the flavor perception by engaging those olfactory senses. Um, it involves drawing the smoke into your mouth, closing it, and using your tongue to push the smoke up into the nasal cavity, and that's gonna allow the smokers to detect just subtle, complex notes that are often missed by mouth exhaling. If you guys do a lot of retrohaling, feel free to put that in the comments. I do every once in a while, but I don't do it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, so I have an issue based on my um nose that I cannot retro hover. Well, I do retrohale, but I can't get a lot of smoke out. Um, and so the chew method, um, when you go down and work in the factory and different things, a lot of guys are just moving smoke around their mouth. There's a lot of opportunity to pick up all of that same because when you're actually tasting food and you're chewing it, it's moving some of that aroma up into your nasal cavity, as we talked about and developing your palate too, and you're still really getting that same process. But following the same process with the food and the smoke is gonna give you the best opportunity to connect to memories. If you're chewing food and retrohaling your smoke, you have a little bit of a difference in how you're actually dealing with the flavor profiles, and that's why you get a little off. Um, but please don't force it. If you retrohale like you're trying to launch smoke through your skull, you're probably gonna hate us. Yes, um, and you're gonna miss what we're trying to accomplish tonight.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yes, so small amounts, gentle, once or twice per third is usually plenty.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Absolutely. And so here is the full method draw, hold, exhale slowly, pause, take a bite of food, chew, swallow, and then repeat your cigar draw. You're gonna draw it again, you're gonna hold it in your mouth, you're gonna chew it a little bit, you're gonna exhale slowly, and notice the differences.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yes, and that pause really matters on this because the finish is often going to tell you more than that first puff or draw does.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Absolutely. A cigar might start sweet, but finish bitter or start creamy and finish peppery.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yes, those transitions um and beginning to understand them is how you begin to build your palate.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And one more thing of importance is when you are building your palate, um, it's not so that way there you can sound educated or sophisticated or snobbish. Uh, developing your palate really is about understanding what you enjoy and having a better experience with your cigars.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Okay. I agree with you, but I don't want to drag us out too long. We got food in front of us. It's time to get really practical. But there's a couple things we probably need to go over to provide all of you rebels watching some practical palette building techniques. And so we're gonna jump right into a little bit of education and then get to the food in just a few minutes.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yes. So, as you had mentioned earlier, for a simple tasting kit, you can grab three items and it could be something sweet, salty, andor savory.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

And for tonight, as we said, we're going a little deeper. Mel's mentioned a couple of times what we're um pairing with tonight. For the sour, I would really suggest starting with either tart dried cherries or dried cranberries. You can use a simple sour candy, however, the sweetness will really kind of overtake that sometimes. Um, for the bitter, a dark chocolate is perfect. Um, I really like to go to an 85% dark chocolate if you can handle it. Um, cocoa nibs are almost also wonderful. Um, we didn't get that tonight, but it really is a good option.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, 100%. Um, for the savory burnt ends are great if you have them. They can bring that smoke, umami or fat and salt. The caramelized meat really can change the flavor.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, and if you don't have burnt ends, um, used beef jerky or smoked almonds, a prosciutto, um, even an aged parmesan can really fill in that part, or uh grab a pan and roast some uh mushrooms really quick. I'm not a big mushroom fan, so I would never do that. However, if you love mushrooms, it's a good option.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yes, and also keep in mind when you are pairing foods with your cigars, make sure it's foods that you like or at least can tolerate. Don't choose something because we're saying it if you hate it, because that's gonna coat your mouth and probably give you a negative experience. But if you do like roasted mushrooms, those are excellent because they really hit that umami without overwhelming, overwhelming sweetness.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yep, absolutely. And so I mentioned the method earlier, so I'm not gonna go through that again. But overall, here's the key concept. Well, Romel, why don't you show the key concept with this?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yes, so the flavor that gets quieter after the bite is the flavor your cigar already had.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Okay, so we got a comment up saying, Rebels, will you be selling your cigars in the ladies' event in June? Um, Richard, that's an absolutely great question. Yes, we will be selling our cigars at that event. Um, I'm not sure exactly how the setup is. Um, two guys already sells our cigars. You can purchase them today. Um, that's a great question. They have them at twoguys.com, twoguyscigars.com, and you can grab them on there. Um, they will be in the shop. Mel and I will be there all day at the shop. So if you want to come a little bit earlier, um we'll be there hanging out in the lounge. We'll have our all of our cigars there for sale before the podcast and then during Ladies' Night. Um, we'll have several of those there. So what happens is you mentioned when you have that flavor note that gets quieter after the bite, it's because the food filled the lane.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Exactly. So if you taste dark chocolate, then smoke again, and suddenly that cigar's cocoa notes disappear. That's gonna tell you that the cigar probably had cocoa or bitterness in it already.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, and if you eat one of the cheeses and the cigar feels less creamy, that tells you that creaminess was already a part of the smoking sensation that you're enjoying.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yes, this is how you begin to understand really what you are tasting.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Absolutely, and it works because comparison is substantially easier than identification.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yes. Um, so on that note, we have uh more to come as soon as we take a quick break.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06 21:26

We fell in love with cigars not because of the flavors or smoking experience or perceived steps, but because it allows barriers to fall between other humans and build deeper connections. For that reason, we've been super intentional to curate a space where people can find community and enjoyment with others, and cigars just happen to be the way we're doing it. For that reason, we are thrown to be the one and only cigar retail store and lounge in downtown Lufkin. A good story is one of the most powerful tools used to connect with another human. Sharing stories fades out differences and highlights similarities found. In the details or with the storyteller. Over the years, we have seen some of the best stories told over cigars, and thus, new friendships are made, passions shared, encouragement given, and so much more. The impact storytelling has on the human connection is why we've decided to name our store and lounge stories. Because behind every good cigar and conversation is an even better story.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

As always, thank you to our sponsors. Um, let's go ahead and check in on this, or we'll go to upcoming shows really quick.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Oh, sorry, I thought we were going to No, you're good. Uh so on She asked me if I want to check in on the cigar before we go, and that's totally my fault because normally we do it after this. I thought you meant because we were trying to get through content. No, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I'll start on this one. May 11th is cigar deals. Are they a thing of the past? And we will be smoking the Camacho Ecuador on that show.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah. On May 18th, we have Tobacco 101, um, premium cigar tobacco varietals and priming. And we're gonna be smoking the new cigar by McAuliffe Cigars, the number two.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

On May 25th, we are doing Develop Your Palette number four, which is going to be building flavor profiles, and we will be smoking the Ladybug by the Elevated Humador.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And on June 1st, we're gonna be moving into June with coffee and cigars, um, perfect pairings, and we're gonna be smoking the Gold Star by United Cigars. Yeah, that'll be a great one. So I'm excited about that one and what we're doing. Um, a couple things we want to give you guys a heads up for those of you that were on last week and saw this. We apologize for a little bit of the repeat, um, but we do have a couple of episodes coming up on June 15th, the dual. Um, we're super excited about this. Two cigars, one verdict. Um, we have a six-panelist tasting panel that is going to be smoking a cigar that is under$13 and a cigar that is over 38 or over$30. And they're gonna be blind smoking them and scoring them live on the podcast. And we're gonna have a verdict before the podcast is over. Um, and we're gonna have six different people doing that. We're really excited. There'll be four live right here with us, and then there will be two virtually um connecting with us from North Carolina. So we're really excited about that. Also coming up um toward the end of the month is the Cigar Rebel Virtual Herf, and we'll have a lot more information on that in the podcast here in two weeks and how to sign up and get a part of that so we can all get on there, we can see all those crazy faces, and we can talk and hear from all of you guys live. And so we're really excited about great connection and community for that coming up. Um, as always, you can go ahead if this is your first time and click that subscribe button. If you're already subscribed, make sure you click the notify button there on YouTube, it'll notify you a few days ahead of time in a few hours that the show is going live. And as always, you can follow us anywhere on social media at Cigar Rebels.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yes, that is awesome. So now we can check in on the cigar. I am about a third way through it. Um maybe a little, maybe honestly, probably about the same as you. I just haven't ash mine yet.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah, I had the ash mine, I didn't want to wear it, um, which is a normal Kevin thing, is I like to wear ash. And so um the cigar has really settled into, and I've smoked a lot of these Perdomo 20th, um, and I know they have a lot of newer cigars out. The 30th, the Legacy, the Father and Son is coming out now. Um, but this 20th anniversary line continues to be spectacular to me. Um, I do like the 10th anniversary champagne, but the 20th Sun Grown and the 20th Maduro is spectacular. Um, and I'm picking up a lot of complex blends around earth and a little bit of leather and a little bit of um cocoa. Now, the leather on this is not the kind of leather that you would have like when you stick your baseball glove in your mouth when you were a kid. It's almost more of that loamy soil type of leather. If you've ever been kind of working with soil and somehow it gets splashed on your hand or into your mouth, and it's almost got that minerally leathery type of taste. That's more of what I'm getting on this. Um, but it's really on the finish and on the retro hell for me. And so far, I'm enjoying it. I intended and expected to enjoy it, and it's lived up to the hype.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, um, I agree with kind of your overall synopsis. I am excited to pair this with some of the foods that we have here. Uh, so now it is what everyone has been waiting for. We are going to pair the cigar with our foods. So let's go ahead and start with the cheese.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

All right, so we're gonna start with cheese. And so up first, and did you put them in order on the plate, Mill? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

All right, so yes. All right. I went on the by the order of the um of the tray. Of the tray.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

All right, we've got to do a moment. I thought she put them in order, so I gotta make sure we're giving you the right.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So then that's the cheddar.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

This is the rich one. Okay, and then the goudas on the edge.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

All right, where so the goudas on the end?

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

All right, so we're starting with a little bit of the gouda, and so here's where it is. We've using the cigar roll method, we're going to go ahead and take a draw, let it rest, chew, slowly excel, and then we're gonna take a bite of the cheese, we're gonna chew that and swallow, and then we're gonna repeat on the draw. Okay. So, what did you pick up different now?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

So I uh ended up retrohaling just a little bit on that one, and it was very sharp for me. It was a very uh that was like if sharpness had a flavor, that would yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

So almost all of the softness or the creaminess of that loamy soil I just described is completely gone. Anyone in the audience that's here nodding, agree? I don't know if any of you guys are at home or I'm doing this with several in the audience with this R. It's totally gone. And this gouda's creamy and it almost has a round note to it, and which is perfect for tasting that creaminess, that softness. Like I said, it created almost a bite. Um, and so absolutely. So, what's the next cheese we're smoking?

SPEAKER_01 28:53

So the next one is gonna be the Fontina cheese.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Okay, so let's grab that one. Okay, almost just took them out of it.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

You're ready for it.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

So all you rebels watching or listening to podcast, I'm on your streaming service, this is showing that you can do and build this and try this at home on your deck. On this Fontina, it was way less creamy. It had a bitterness to it, so I picked up a lot more of the chocolatey espresso note on the cigar, and way less of it didn't get rid of the creaminess at all. It was still there, but it almost dried it out, it almost dried the cigar out to me. Did anybody else feel that?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

A little spice, a little spice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

So we've got a little bit of spice on there. Um, and so we'll go through that. And so, Mel, as we go through, we'll kind of take a little bit of time to kind of really talk a little bit about that everything's why the other one's doing it, so we don't have so much dead air. So, um, why don't you go ahead and try the next cheese? Um, but while that on this fontina, the cheese is was very mild and earthy, and it had a real soft bite to it. And so on that fontina, so I think it took away that earthiness and just really dried out the cigar. It honestly, I gotta cleanse my palate because it almost made the cigar kind of bitter.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

But you're doing this is the uh one that's kind of like Swiss cheese. Yeah, the Swiss French. It's a mintal, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

So tell us what you're getting from that.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So that one is like Swiss cheese, and in general, I only like Swiss cheese if it's melted. I'm not a fan of uh of it kind of raw. Um that one for me, it's interesting because I almost feel like I get a very predominant flavor on whatever side, whatever side of my mouth I'm doing um the chewing on. So um it has a more almost nuttiness to it, a little bit more sweet. Yeah, like uh we had someone in our audience say almost like a fresh brie. Yeah, I could I could see that it's very smooth in comparison to the first one we had that was very sharp to me.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, and I also think did somebody say we said a mental wrong? Was it different? Oh, I thought, yeah, I know. So yeah, so with this emental cheese, uh, and we're just gonna call it a Swiss cheese, it's sharp in that nuttiness on the cigar goes away. And so that one didn't impact the cigar very much to me at all on this one. And so, um, Mel, why don't you go ahead and do the cheddar? And I'm gonna go ahead and cue up what we're gonna be doing next.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yeah, next one, and the final cheese is the cheddar.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So, when you're doing this at home, this is what I'm saying. You can easily just get something sweet, something salty, something sour, and really try all of these over the course of the cigar. Do it five or six times. We're just doing one bite tonight so that we can kind of go ahead and continue to go. Um, one of the things Mel mentioned is she's losing sensation on whichever side of her mouth she's chewing on. Um, should have walked through this earlier. Take the time to chew through both sides of your mouth. So I moved the cheese back and forth. So you really coat your mouth in the same way that the smoke will. It's really important. Um, before Mel starts talking, um Leslie asked if Rich had tried the McAuliff number two. Not sure if Richard has yet or not. Um, we've smoked several of them at this point. Um, we had them in a plethora at our cigar fest this last Saturday, and people really enjoyed them. Anybody in the audience smoke a McAuliff number two? Yeah, lots of thumbs up.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

So yes, and I will say normally I do move the food completely around my mouth, but because I'm not necessarily cleansing my palate in between each one, I'm rotating sides. Gotcha. Uh so on the cheddar, um, my first pairing of them together, having the cheddar, and then taking a puff of the cigar, it gave me almost a remnant of if you were to brush your teeth and then eat a piece of cheddar right after you did that, that is the flavor that I was getting. So for me, it was not great. But after you take a couple more draws on that cigar and kind of get that first initial remnant on it, you just get I get a very strong cheddar cheese sensation. But that first draw right after the cheddar for me was not great.

SPEAKER_04 34:23

It picks the bitter up really hot.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yes. Uh we had someone say it really picks up the bitterness.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Um I did the milk chocolate. You go ahead and do that while I'm talking. So with the milk chocolate, this is great for tasting dessert notes, cream, sugar, cocoa, caramel, um, dark chocolate will do us a few things, but on the milk chocolate, I just took it really kicked up the spice on the back of my throat, and it took a hundred percent of the creaminess of the cigar away. It just really, those espresso notes, those earth notes really heightened up. So we want to pause here and talk a little bit about what's happened so far. When we're talking about what's gone away and what has grown on the cigar, those are notes you're gonna want to be taking down. So when you go back and read over them when you're doing this on your deck, or maybe get a group of buddies at your local lounge and do it together. So, on the chocolate, the milk chocolate, what really happened is the creaminess went away. What that meant is this cigar smoke already had a creaminess and it got a little bit more earthy and a little bit more bitter. That means I was picking up those creamy notes. That's how I begin to distinguish and know okay, I had some creaminess in this cigar.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Does that make sense? Yeah, and did you see that on the milk chocolate as well? So, what's coming up next, Mel?

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Uh, after the milk chocolate, we're moving on to the dark chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

The dark chocolate. So tell us about this dark chocolate we're eating.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Uh, so the dark chocolate is going probably to make it a little bit more bitter.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

A little bit well, the dark chocolate is bitter and is earthy, so I think it'll actually eliminate those.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

So, do you want to try it and I'll talk about it?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah, so it's gonna be sorry, I was confused on our uh notes. I was looking at the wrong thing. Uh, the dark chocolate is going to be bitter, earthy, and then this one is going to be much more cocoa forward. And so, based on what we have all kind of talked about with this cigar, you might end up seeing those kind of go away when we were doing the cold draw. We were talking about how we picked up some cocoa or some more of those notes. And so uh this one, this dark chocolate, is also going to be the best palette builder that is on the plate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

So after doing that on this cigar, and we're using a lot of creaminess here, but the question is does the cigar lose sweetness? Does coffee and earth show up more or less? And on this, after that bitter chocolate, what I really get is the sweetness has almost coated my mouth, and so it's a little interesting. However, what I noticed was the creaminess and the sweetness of the scar went away, and I got a lot more earthiness, and that loamy soil or that leather was way more forward on the palate and definitely there on the finish. And so, what this cigar is, is that you can be able to say, okay, the earthiness and the leather is there, but all the other components went away. So, all the other components, what was that? With the dark chocolate, it's really that sweetness. And I would almost say, if you're gonna use a dark chocolate, this Hershey's chocolate we got is a 70% dark chocolate. I would probably go 85 or 90, and you're gonna have a little bit different experience from that perspective. We have two different dark chocolates here. We're only gonna take time to do one. Um, we'll go ahead and move into the pretzels male and talk a little bit about that for a second.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, so pretzels are gonna bring in salt, toasted grain, and probably some dryness in there.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah, so why don't you go ahead and taste it while I'll talk about it? Um, yeah, do that one for salt, just a regular pretzel. Um, salt can make sweetness pop and it can also make bitterness feel sharper. Um, but also one thing a lot of people pick up on cigars is saltiness. And so if you have saltiness on a cigar, that'll go away and it dynamically changes the flavor of the cigar. And so, Mel, what are you tasting from that?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

So, so far I've just had the pretzel. I haven't had the draw. So that dark chocolate for me, it really muted the cigar. Like I was actually not picking up very much, which again matches up with the dark chocolate, has a lot of those notes we were tasting before we started pairing any foods. Um, so with the pretzel, it does bring a little bit of it back. I'm gonna take another draw and see if I can get more flavors now that it's kind of I've kind of washed that dark chocolate away.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yeah, the salty pretzelness didn't change much for the cigar. I wouldn't say this cigar is salty, and so it didn't really make any change and did a really good job of overcoming the dark chocolate that was in my mouth. Um, so it was a good palate cleanser. But on this cigar, the salting pretzel didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

And that's okay. If you're taking notes and using it, you can note that down. That's a part of building the palate. This cigar is not a salty cigar, there's no real breadiness in this cigar, so none of that breuttiness notes went away. And so we're gonna go ahead and add some fat to that. So why don't you have the peanut butter one? But with the peanut butter-filled pretzel, the reason why is you're adding a fat and a creaminess and a nuttiness, and it's another opportunity to really drive that out. And I realize for those of you guys listening to this podcast, for those of you um that might even be watching live, this is a little bit slower podcast, a little bit less information forward, a little bit more of technique, but we're walking through it slowly because we really want you guys to be able to have an opportunity to do this on your deck, and then you can go back and watch the episode after you do it and learn some techniques. And it tonight really is about that technique process. And I understand podcasts are about audiences and getting people to tune in next week, and we desperately want you guys to tune in next week. However, we feel like we wouldn't be doing our job if we weren't taking the time to slowly walk through this for you guys. So, Mel, what are you thinking after the pretzel?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

So I have had these before, and after having this particular kind of pretzel nugget, um, after smoking the cigar, my mouth is filled with just saltiness. And honestly, some hardiness in there, I think, from the peanut butter, but the salt is very overwhelming, like it is all across mainly the roof of my mouth. These are also a little bit more salty than just the plain pretzels that we had, so that could be contributing it as well, but very salty now is so.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

One of the things that this one did for me with the fat, and I'd be interested in the live audience that's here, it completely eliminated the earthiness, the leather, and that's the fat and the nuttiness, because those are in the same lane. So when you look at a flavor wheel, that same lane really is all of that fattiness, that leather, that earthiness. And so that's a good note if you're taking notes to write down okay, there's a little bit of this earthiness, it all went away with the pretzel. I don't think the pretzel is overwhelming your palate, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to overwhelm our palate so we can get a different flavor profile from the cigar. The one thing I will tell you is training your palate can actually be a little bit of work. It can actually be a scenario where you get frustrated. Like this cigar I absolutely love, and it's not tasting the way I like it to, but that's okay. That's what we're trying to do, is train our palate so we can take those notes down. The reason I talk about taking notes is there's a psychological proof that when you're doing something and you're taking notes of it, it's creating more memory base in your mind. And that's what we're really wanting to try and do here tonight. For those of you guys watching live, or if you're watching on the replay, um, we'd love for you to go ahead and hashtag replay fam and let us know your answer to this question. But have you guys ever paired food with cigars and really spent the time to try and pick out the flavors? The other question is have you guys ever just sit down and had a great steak or um a fillet of fish with a cigar? And how did you enjoy that? I love a good steak with a cigar. I mean, you're talking about the perfect Friday Saturday night. It's sitting on the deck with a cigar and a big hunk of meat. It's amazing.

unknown 43:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

So, next up, if you're ready and you want to start us off, we are doing the uh tart uh one, which is the dried cherry, or maybe you have a dried cranberry at home.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

So we're using dried cranberries.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

We're using the dried cranberries, correct. And the sour potentially is going to wake up the palate at this point. I love dried cranberries. I try and put them on anything, salads, oatmeal, anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Okay. So on the retro hell and on the finish, there is substantially more spice for me with that. The acidity really draws that out. However, it didn't really mute anything for me. Now, on a good Connecticut cigar, what I'll see is the bitterness in that cigar will go away completely with the dried fruit or a prune or a cranberry. Um, I even was um with my son the other day, I popped in a couple of um sour Skittles that my son had. And let me tell you, that cigar went from a sweet and just really pleasant Connecticut to a pepper bomb because all of that was just suddenly the bitterness was gone, the tobacco flavor was gone, the sweetness was gone, and all that was left was those pepper notes from the Nicaraguan tobacco. And that's why you're doing this is how do we really get the process right? And so it really is interesting when we begin to look at that and understand. Did you get anything off of the cranberry?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

So for me, immediately completely neutralized all the saltiness um that I had lingering from the pretzel, and it almost just kind of just immediately coated my mouth, and I did get that acidity I got. To me, they were more sour than they normally are. Uh pairing with the cigar, not too much of a change there, but you can feel the different flavors in your mouth that are influencing the cigar that you are tasting.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

So someone in the audience here said it really kicked up the bitterness.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

So I just took a bite of the ribs. So tell us about the ribs and what we think that might add to us around if the burnt-ins aren't if you don't have them.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah, so this is going to be our savory item. So burnt ends or the alternative. Um, we love using burnt ends, but as Kevin said, we just couldn't get them in, we couldn't get them done in time for tonight. Um, and it is really gonna be a flavor wheel that is swearing barbecue sauce. So um really taking that, getting that coating from the sauce is probably going to completely cover your the inside of your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Yeah. So for me, as I just took that bite and I'd love for you to take one while I'm talking. What I I really saw and experienced out of this process is the leather notes and the earthiness really stood out from here. The thing that really muted back was that chocolatey, that sweetness, and it's a little bit from the barbecue sauce on there, but also the fattiness, just like we saw with the peanut butter-filled pretzel. And so it's really interesting to see what gets enhanced, but also what goes away. And that's again a part of really beginning to learn and understand what your palate looks like and what it feels like. Now, the goal of this is not to simply build a palette, as Mel said earlier, it's about to understand and learn what you're enjoying and what's going away. Because what we're really trying to do is you're not going to get this off of one episode, off of us telling you, you're going to get this when I was building my palate, I did this once a week for about four months. And I tried with a bunch of different cheeses, a bunch of different meats, a bunch of different salty things, a bunch of different bitter things, um, really trying to learn and connect memories and to connect thoughts with different cigar flavors, um, which is wildly interesting to do.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

And so um what are your thoughts right now on the so doing after having the um barbecue, it really brings back some of those uh earthy notes that were in there. And I actually picked up pick up a lot of like a smoked pepper, not a spicy pepper, but almost like if you when you smell charcoal grilling or something along those lines, um brings back that woodiness a little bit from the cigar. I don't pick up really any sweetness from the cigar after having off of the draw. I did get this sweetness from the barbecue sauce when I first took a bite of it, yeah, but that's not actually influencing the cigar for me. If I'm looking at what flavor notes am I getting from the cigar.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

No, and what's really great about all these little bites is once I take a couple of draws, all of that cigar flavor comes back. You really are able to move past it. If I was doing this at home alone, I have water tonight, I would have a glass of water. I would prefer sparkling water in taking a drink of that and switch around between each food item I'm doing. Um, this is a fun little exercise. Um, Rebels, it's hopefully this has been a great night, a little bit of educational, very different from a normal um podcast. Um, but we are running a little long. Sometimes we go longer than this, um, but we have a lot more content for this. And so, Mel, I think we should wrap up tonight and kind of move the content piece maybe the next week and kind of shift some shows around. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah, I agree. Like we knew this would be uh an explosive episode of flavors, but also information while we were pairing. So I think it's worth having more of the content on another episode.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah, and so really what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna call this part three A. Um, and next week we're gonna talk a little bit about part three B. And we're gonna talk and show you guys a flavor. Wheel, we'll have a graphic up on the screen as well, showing the one that we have here in the lounge. Um, we're gonna show you some of these nosing kits and talk about how to use nosing kits to kind of build your palate and really develop that out. And we're not gonna do one-on-one like we did tonight and really walk through that. We're just gonna give you some information about them and really walk you through how to pick up and what are the differences between wood and earth and leather, because those are the three most confused. Um, another one that's kind of oddly confused out there is paper. And you might say, I've never heard anybody describe a flavor note as paper, but you might have. Someone that says this really tastes like cardboard, or all I'm getting is this bland flavor, and that really is that paper note. And so people get really confused between all those, and we're gonna dig right into it.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yes, so if you did not pair anything with your cigars tonight, feel free between now and next week to do that as we're going to be diving into more content about this. And a question that I had for you also is did you have a favorite food that you paired with this cigar today?

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah, you know, I think what's really tough is it's either the gouda or the fontina. I didn't like the Fontina cheese. However, I enjoyed how it really kind of made the cigar express itself. And then the cranberries was interesting because the acidity really made that earthiness and that leather stick out. Um, and I actually happen to enjoy those flavor notes. How about you? Did you enjoy one?

SPEAKER_01 52:03

So for me, I think my top two favorites was the barbecue at the end and then the um the peanut butter pretzel there, even though it didn't change a lot for the cigar for me. It gave me a lot of saltiness, yeah. Which when you're developing your palate, you start to realize what flavors do I really like in a cigar? What am I trying and hoping to pick out for this? Or what do I hope the cigar has flavor notes of?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you just enjoyed those because they were the best two options on the plate.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Well, I mean, the chocolate was good too. I love chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

So um, let's go ahead and give a final review of the Perdomo 20th anniversary Maduro. What was your final thoughts on the cigar as a whole and then how it paired with our food tonight?

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah, so this was an excellent cigar. We, you know, we smoked it for 20 minutes or so before we started pairing it with any anything. Um, I've had it before. It's solid cigar. It's got some of those great, you know, notes of cocoa in there, um, the earth, the leather. Um, it has a great everyone I've had has had a great construction, holds a great ash. Um, I think it paired well mostly with all of the food.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Um yeah, and some of them didn't change it much, but one of the things I did notice is when we had the final pretzel and the um rib is the white pepper kicked up. And what's interesting is the white pepper has stayed. And so that might have been in the transition where we're at in the cigar. It could have also been the food bringing that out. Um, my mouth is still a little coated with a little bit of the other foods. I've been trying to take a couple drinks of water. But what's really interesting is if you're going to do this, please do not do it with a cigar you've never had. Do it with a cigar that's in your regular rotation that you're going to enjoy. I might even suggest smoke that cigar and enjoy it, and then light a second one and do the process because you've given yourself time to acclimate to it. Um, and so really think this is a technique that you can use to build your palette to develop. Um, I know it was a little bit slower podcast night. Um, probably for you guys watching or listening on streaming, it's a little slower than normal, but we really wanted to give you guys a good technique, walk through it so you can hear us talking about it. And I highly, highly recommend grab a pen and a notepad.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Yes, so take notes with it before you start pairing it with the food so you can kind of have an idea of what you were picking up without any of that food. And then, like you were saying, take notes during it and which one was your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

So, um, so for tonight, thank you guys for joining us. If you liked this episode, please leave us a review, share with your cigar friends, and hit us up for any topics that you would love to see us cover.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Absolutely. And if you're watching or listening on the replay, drop us a comment at hashtag replayfam and click the notify button so you won't miss any episodes. Um, next week we do have a great episode come up on cigar deals. Are they still hot or are they dead? And should they be? We're gonna be smoking the Camacho Ecuador. If you are a subscriber to the Rebel pack, those should be in your mail any, or you should already have them already, actually. Um, and it should be in your pack to enjoy with us. Yes. But for tonight, that's our show.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Yes, that is our show. Thank you guys for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share this with your fellow cigar lovers until next Monday. Keep your cigar lit, your ash long, and your palate curious.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Have a good night, guys.