MISUNDERSTOOD: Dark Cigars

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TODAY'S CIGAR: Montosa Maduro

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome to the Cigar Rebel community, where indulgence meets authenticity. This is more than a podcast. It's a gathering place for those who savor life's luxuries with unapologetic passion. Here we celebrate the fine art of living through rich flavors, bold spirits, exquisite cigars, and unforgettable experiences.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

Welcome, Cigar Rebels, to the podcast.

SPEAKER_06 0:39

I'm Mel. And whether you guys are on your back porch, sitting in your favorite cigar lounge, driving home from work, or just getting away to relax and have a cigar, we're glad you're here and glad that you guys waded through all that.

SPEAKER_09 0:51

Yeah, and I'm Kevin, and we're coming to you live tonight from Wild Cigars in Burleson, Texas. And let me tell you, uh, we are going live 15 minutes late. So thank you all for hanging out, um, sticking around. We do not know what happened. Um, from all of the data that we got, YouTube was having an outage. There's apparently a live concert going on somewhere right now. Yeah. Um, that's what one site said. Who we utilized said there was no problems. And so interesting uh scenario we're dealing with just now. But we really appreciate you guys um hanging through. We'd love to know what all of you guys are smoking tonight. But tonight we're coming to you live with an episode about misunderstood cigars. Specifically, one of the most persistent myths in the entire cigar world: dark cigars are strong.

SPEAKER_06 1:42

Right. And that, I mean, that sounds logical. Uh, a dark cigar, they normally look heavier, they look richer. Um, it may smell like, you know, that cocoa or earth, maybe the espresso uh or the molasses in there, but people also assume that it must contain more nicotine.

SPEAKER_09 2:02

Yeah, absolutely. And to be honest, Mel, um, a lot of cigar smokers do not know what a cigar, a strong cigar, really means. Often they confuse strength and boldness of the body, the intensity of flavor. They get it all confused.

SPEAKER_06 2:15

Right, right. And tonight we're gonna be asking the very simple question, and that is are the dark cigars really stronger?

SPEAKER_09 2:26

Yeah, and the question that we're really gonna talk about and really maybe dig into is we're gonna explain what wrapper color really tells you where the cigar's nicotine strength comes from and how to stop judging cigars with your eyes because we all do it.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Right, 100%. All right, Rebels, let's go ahead and cut, light, and settle in.

SPEAKER_09 2:48

Um cigar? Yeah. So sorry, I'm still trying to deal and figure out this. We're on two different internets, and so I'm trying to make sure our internet doesn't drop off and kick everybody off.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 2:58

Uh, but why don't you go ahead and let us know what we're smoking tonight, Mel?

SPEAKER_06 3:01

So tonight we are smoking the Monduro by Montosa, and that has a Mexican San Andreas wrapper, a Brazilian binder, and then Brazilian, Nicaraguan, and Dominican fillers. And this is my first cigar of the day, sadly, but also excitedly.

SPEAKER_09 3:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:17

So I am excited to light this one up.

SPEAKER_09 3:19

So, what are you getting on the cold draw from this, Mel?

SPEAKER_06 3:22

Um, I definitely am getting some hay on there. Um, there's a little a little bit of sweetness to that as well. Maybe a little bit of pepper.

SPEAKER_09 3:37

Yeah, there's a little bit of sourdough. A little bit on there on the cold drop. That hay is there. Um, I could agree with a little bit of the pepper. Um, I'm ready to get the cigar lit. I know you said it's gonna be your first cigar of the day, so on a clean palette, I'm sure you're ready to like this cigar.

SPEAKER_08 3:54

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_09 3:54

And so, Rebels, tonight's lighting is brought to you by the elevated humidor.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

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SPEAKER_05 5:22

As always, thank you to our sponsors. Now we have got our cigars, I think, mostly lit at this point. And first cigar of the day, it's hitting quite nicely.

SPEAKER_09 5:33

Yeah, and so from my perspective, get the first couple of draws, that initial barnoyar really pulls through, Mel. Um, there's a little bit of that pepper I'm getting on the lips. I might be in more of a black pepper, a little bit of a rich coffee. But so far, the first couple of draws are fantastic on this cigar.

SPEAKER_06 5:52

It has the coolness, I feel like, of like a coffee bean. You know, if you've ever had just like a coffee bean, you know, it has that like kind of cool coating, but that like not bitter coffee flavor, not like that, but that unique coffee flavor. If you just have like the bean, that's kind of what it reminds me of.

SPEAKER_09 6:08

No, I could agree with that. Absolutely. Definitely um on there. There's a little bit on the finish and on the retro hell. It's weird. Um, a little bit of that leather, yeah, a little bit on the retro hell. Yeah, but um, man, I'm ready to get into the episode tonight. We're running behind, doing well. Um, want to say a couple of shout-outs to a few people. Um, the kilt man is here. Um, Alex is here. Great to see you. Um, yo Kiltman, Leslie of the corn is there. We've got Douglas with us tonight, popcorn. Um, not a clever man said he was at Stories earlier today. And normally we shoot the podcast from there, yeah, except for when we're traveling, which is only about half the time these days. Yeah, true. Um, but like I said, coming to you live tonight from Wilds. Want to give a shout out to Nathan and Chris and Kim for letting us use their podcast area. Um, was hanging out with Nathan earlier today. Um, Mel and I are traveling up into the Fort Worth area this next week with a lot going on and needed somewhere to land. So, Mel, why don't you jump into our notes tonight? Let's get rocking it. We're talking about misunderstood cigars. And tonight's topic is dark cigars.

SPEAKER_06 7:19

Right, right. So, as we've kind of talked about, you had said a little bit before lighting the cigar, that a lot of the cigar smokers they don't actually understand strength and flavor intensity. And really, there's nothing wrong with that. It's an easy thing in the cigar industry, especially as you're starting out to be confused about. So, we want to really help educate all the rebels out there and help cigar smokers make better choices or the best choices for them and for their palate.

SPEAKER_09 7:50

Yeah, absolutely. And and far too often, um, dark cigars are automatically considered to be strong. Meanwhile, light-colored cigars or Connecticut cigars are often just immediately considered to be mild. And they're really kind of the dark cigars' flavorless cousin.

SPEAKER_06 8:09

Right, right. And normally we build some background and then kind of get into the central question in the episodes like this one. But tonight I want to jump kind of off the cliff right away and just talk about are dark cigars stronger?

SPEAKER_09 8:27

Yeah, and so the really easy answer to that is yes or no, right? Right? Some are, some are not. In the same way, some lighter colored cigars are mild, others are not, Mel.

SPEAKER_06 8:45

Right, right. The blend really is going to determine that cigar's strength. So that's gonna include the wrapper, the binder, and also the filler.

SPEAKER_09 8:55

Yeah, and what is or why is the overall blend so important, Mel?

SPEAKER_06 9:01

So the blend, it's not simply what the priming or leaf is used. It also takes into consideration a lot of items like the tobacco varieties, the growing region it came from, the leaf position, um, that fermentation process in there, the blend proportions. And also another big one is the vitola of the cigar itself.

SPEAKER_09 9:26

Yeah, and uh Nana Cleverman asked, said, I've always troubled determining strength in cigars because I feel like nicotine doesn't hit me like it does others. I've had like five cigars back to back and never really felt a nicotine buzz. And so that's one of the things we're gonna dive into tonight and talk a little bit about is that how you process nicotine really changes if a cigar is strong or how strong it is. It doesn't change if it's really strong, but it changes how you deal with it, right? Right, right. Um, and based on your answer you just gave, the wrapper truly is a part of the answer, but not the entire answer when it comes to is this cigar strong?

SPEAKER_06 10:06

Right. I mean, the wrapper matters. So we don't want to over-correct the myth and pretend the outside of the leaf is irrelevant. Um, it does contribute to that aroma. It's gonna contribute to that flavor, influences the combustion. Um, and then depending on the leaf that's left behind and the overall blend, it's also going to contribute some or a lot of that strength.

SPEAKER_09 10:31

Yeah, absolutely. Because the wrapper cannot tell us what's in the blend of that cigar, which, as you just said, has so much of an impact on the overall flavor profile, body, complexity, and of course, strength.

SPEAKER_06 10:44

Right. And most of the tobacco in a cigar, that's going to be found in the filler. And then you have the small portion in the binder and an even smaller portion in the wrapper. So uh the filler for tonight's purposes, like the filler blend, uh, it has a major influence on how much nicotine that smoker is going to experience.

SPEAKER_09 11:07

Yeah, absolutely. And this is where the simple retail shortcut becomes dangerous, Mel. Right. Um, someone walks into a shop and says, I want something mild, and they immediately start looking through the light wrappers that they have in the humidor.

SPEAKER_06 11:24

Right. Right. And then someone might say that they want something strong, and they search for that darkest, oilest cigar I can find, uh, or they can find even really.

SPEAKER_09 11:37

Absolutely. And there's a lot of chat about the Perdomo champagne being a deceptively strong cigar. Um, Ray said he's been exposed to some dark cigars, and even though I was told they were strong, but I enjoyed them and didn't feel that the strength was a problem. And that's absolutely this thing. Um, popcorn says you're absolutely correct. Um, it's really interesting because we've seen it and we've experienced it far too often and at events. Um, and based on the examples that you kind of gave, you might end up leaving with the wrong cigar in that experience. Right. Um, someone walks in and they want something mild, so they give them a Connecticut. They want something strong, they give them a Maduro. But that's just such a generic approach to understanding what the cigar smoker really wants and also understanding tobacco as a whole.

SPEAKER_07 12:28

Right.

SPEAKER_09 12:29

Um, and so what happens is people end up getting a cigar, they don't enjoy it, it's too strong, it's too mild, and man, it's tough.

SPEAKER_06 12:37

Right, right. And we're not hating on shops at all. I mean, we have seen some smokers who are gonna know better and will only smoke those darkest wrappers as they love that strength. Um, then they pick up a very mild and a very flavorful Maduro, and it's like, whoa, like you know Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 12:57

And here's the simplest rule for tonight's episode, okay, Rebels? What color, what wrapper color can actually suggest is flavor possibilities. The complete blend determines the strength.

SPEAKER_06 13:12

Right. And even that is really a starting point because the cigar smoker matters as well in that. So in someone who's experienced, they may describe that cigar as a medium, and a newer smoker may experience that same cigar as strong.

SPEAKER_09 13:30

Yeah, especially if they haven't eaten anything. 100%. If they're smoking on an empty stomach, you can get nicotine rush quickly.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Yeah, I mean, that time of day, the pace, the food, hydration, the individual nicotine tolerance for uh that's all gonna affect that experience.

SPEAKER_09 13:47

Yeah, and so this is one of my rules that um I've taken a lot of flack for, but I don't really care. Is I believe the strength of a cigar, going back to what not a clever man said in his comment earlier, 80% of the strength of a cigar is the tobacco. 20% is how you encounter it that day.

SPEAKER_06 14:08

Right, 100%. Those are all good points. And so I want to kind of spend a moment here on the strength, the body, the flavor, and complexity.

SPEAKER_09 14:20

I love that you said that because um Alex just put up the comment, plus the whole confusion between strength versus flavor, which we did an entire podcast on, and we're going to kind of uh follow back up here for just a second. But I love that you want to spend a moment on strength, the body, flavor, complexity.

SPEAKER_06 14:36

And I love talking about strength versus flavor because they are completely different and it confuses so many people.

SPEAKER_09 14:43

Yeah, and so many strength gauges just piled on top of each other, and what they're really talking about is balance and body. And so, uh, like I said, we covered this recently in a podcast. We try to ensure that each episode stands on its own. So if you're listening to this, it's like, hey, you gotta go watch this podcast, understand this one. Right. Uh, we don't want to be a Marvel movie, yeah, like the new Doomsday or whatever is coming out, and they're like, here's the nine Marvel movies you gotta go back and re-watch and watch them in this order so that you understand what's happening. We don't want to do that, right?

SPEAKER_06 15:13

Right, absolutely. And so I do think that we need to clean up some vocabulary here uh because cigar smokers are often going to say that word strong when they could mean four different things.

SPEAKER_09 15:27

Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, my cigar is not staying very lit tonight. Yours is smoking great.

SPEAKER_06 15:31

What did my I know theirs is you have no burn on it, really?

SPEAKER_09 15:34

Like, no burn whatsoever. I don't and I haven't asked it. Uh but one of the biggest confusions is this source of strong when they mean all these different things.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

Right. And so when someone calls a cigar strong, they might actually mean that it is high in nicotine, that it is full of flavor, uh, it could be spicy on the palate, or it's honestly just outside of their comfort zone.

SPEAKER_09 16:02

It's kind of heavy in the body, it's thick smoke, right? Or simply outside of their comfort zone, as you said. So let's separate those and talk about each one of those briefly so we can begin to build the right vocabulary.

SPEAKER_06 16:14

Right. So first is gonna be that strength. And the strength is going to be the physical effect of the nicotine. So a strong cigar that's gonna or could cause maybe some lightheadedness, that warm or heavy sensation, that increased salivation. I can get through that word, the mild nausea, maybe some sweating, um, or that sudden realization that sitting down is just gonna be the best idea you've ever had for the day.

SPEAKER_09 16:44

Yeah, absolutely. And that one, that last statement is the one that we measure a body.

SPEAKER_06 16:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_09 16:50

I've had a couple of cigars I've smoked for it's like, okay, I've just got to stop and get something to eat.

SPEAKER_06 16:55

Right.

SPEAKER_09 16:55

Or I got to eat a piece of chocolate to overcome that nicotine risk.

SPEAKER_06 16:58

Right, absolutely. It happens. Yeah. Strength is gonna be what that cigar actually does to you. And next is going to be the flavor intensity.

SPEAKER_09 17:08

Yeah, and this is how pronounced the flavors are. Um, for Mel and I, when we're blending cigars, we really want that flavor to outperform strength. And the reason we can say that confidently is they're two distinct things, right? They're two very different things. The cigar may have loud flavors like pepper, espresso, earth, cocoa, molasses, charred wood, all those different things. And that can be very flavorful, but that does not equal strength.

SPEAKER_06 17:37

Right. Those flavors they might feel very powerful without the cigar actually even delivering that nicotine impact.

SPEAKER_09 17:45

Yeah, right. I could agree with that a hundred percent. And this is where many dark cigars simply get mislabeled. The flavors are rich, the smoke feels substantial, the palate's very busy because of those great flavors. And the smoker says, Man, this is a strong cigar.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

Yeah, when what they really mean is that it is full flavored or maybe full-bodied.

SPEAKER_09 18:12

Yeah, yeah, and that's so true. Um, so let's talk about body. What does body mean?

SPEAKER_06 18:17

Right. So, body is going to describe that weight, you know, the texture, and really the presence of the smoke. So, on a recent episode, you had mentioned um body to kind of maybe think about that as the same way that we think about milk. You know, there's skim milk, there's whole milk, there's heavy cream, um, then you know, there's uh all those different types of milk, really. Yeah, I mean there's so many different types of things. And whole and heavy cream.

SPEAKER_09 18:45

Um, another example is kind of blonde coffee, medium coffee, and then you have espresso, right? That's kind of the different textures that you would get from different coffees, right?

SPEAKER_06 18:56

Right. And that body that can feel very thin, it can be dense, it can be creamy. Um, people have described it as chewy or even a coating. I mean, how many times have we talked about this just coats my mouth, you know, when we're smoking a cigar?

SPEAKER_07 19:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 19:09

The cigar can be full-bodied without delivering the strength based on that nicotine level.

SPEAKER_09 19:16

Yeah, so we have a few people smoking this Montosa that's doing the same thing. It's not burning, it's just kind of burning at the end, can't stay lit. Mel, hold yours up so the camera can see up here.

SPEAKER_06 19:26

She's looking, I know she's I'm looking at this so I can see.

SPEAKER_09 19:29

Sorry to uh so you can see she's got a good ash. So for those rebels watching the and smoking with us, because this mantosa normally burns perfectly. Um, I've actually never had this happen. We've got a few of you guys doing it. All these came out of the exact same box. So here's what I did I took my lighter and I actually went about a quarter inch up the wrapper and just burned the wrapper, and now mine is starting to build ash and burning a little bit better. I've got more smoke production. I don't know what happened with this box. Mel's came out of the same box as y'all's did. Uh, but uh getting right back to this, so uh interesting. Richard, who did not get a cigar from us, said I smoked one today and the same thing happened. Uh, very interesting uh on that. And popcorn says Montana has uh his Montosa has a tight draw, and so absolutely an interesting scenario. So, as you talked about, a cigar can have a very full-bodied without delivering strength. On the other hand, a cigar can be light while the cigar can be strong, right? You can have a very light body and a heavy nicotine, right? Some people mentioned other the Perdomo champagne. I feel like that's a light smoke with some strength. I know you don't feel like it's as strong as other people.

SPEAKER_06 20:46

I get I I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 20:47

But you also like the Neanderthal and the M81, and you can smoke the world's strongest cigar first thing in the morning and don't think there's anything to it. Or HVC hotcakes and think there's nothing to it. Most of us smoke the champagne and feel a little bit of the strength.

SPEAKER_06 21:02

Yes, and I don't ever make anyone feel bad or like that they're wrong for their rating of the champagne.

SPEAKER_09 21:07

I don't she's making me feel bad about it. She's over here looking at me.

SPEAKER_06 21:11

I don't. I just uh that's just my opinion and what I get from it. But uh moving on, there we're gonna move on to the complexity of the cigar. Yeah, let's move on. The complexity that is going to describe uh the distinct sensations that that cigar is going to provide and how they all interact. So uh it may transition throughout the smoke, um, or it may reveal that different notes depending on this the pace or the retro hail and also the paling, the pairing.

SPEAKER_09 21:41

So Leslie says, Kevin, it worked. Mine is staying lit now. I learned something new. So that makes you the oh wait, wrong show.

SPEAKER_08 21:48

Uh oh boy.

SPEAKER_09 21:53

Sorry, she set me up. I had to do it, I had to do it. Uh, wrong show. So look, complexity. As you were saying, is not strength, it is not body, and it is not flavor intensity. I tell you guys, for starting, you know, 50 minutes late, uh, this show's been a wreck starting out. So we've got to have a little bit of a fun. Yeah, I agree. Trying to get it up and going, uh, trying to be funny. Uh, hope you guys can laugh along with us. Uh, but really wanting to talk about that misunderstood cigar tonight.

SPEAKER_08 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 22:24

Um, and we've kind of laid out strength, body, flavor intensity, and complexity.

SPEAKER_06 22:32

Right. So that mild cigar, like you were kind of saying, that can be complex. A full strength cigar can be relatively straightforward and lack that that complexity.

SPEAKER_09 22:44

Yeah, absolutely. So let's put it into a really clean framework for the rebels. Strength is what you feel, flavor intensity is what you taste.

SPEAKER_08 22:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_09 22:56

Body is how the smoke feels, right? And complexity is how much experience kind of is revealed in transitioning throughout, how many different flavors or if the flavors transition throughout the smoke. Right. Um, that really needs to be on a card for every tobacconist to use to educate cigar smokers. We need to make some of those, some cigar rebel ones.

SPEAKER_06 23:21

Yeah, because once you separate all of those ideas, the dark cigars they become much more easier to understand. So the Maduro, it can be mild in strength, it can be full in body, it can have uh those rich flavors, and it can be moderately complex.

SPEAKER_09 23:40

Yeah, absolutely. It can also be a full or a strong cigar and be all of those things, full in body, rich in flavor, and moderately complex.

SPEAKER_06 23:50

100%, yeah. And the opposite is true, really, for both the mild and the full strength cigars.

SPEAKER_09 23:58

Yeah, there are so many combinations when you begin to think and begin to look at cigars in these kinds of categories.

SPEAKER_06 24:06

Right. The only consistent fact when it comes to the color of a cigar is really the color and shade of a cigar wrapper cannot tell you strength, body, flavor, or complexity.

SPEAKER_09 24:22

Absolutely. And if strength does not come from darkness, then Mel, where does it come from?

SPEAKER_06 24:28

It's gonna come from the tobacco in the complete blend. And that's one of the most important factors is where the leaf grew on that tobacco plant.

SPEAKER_09 24:39

Yeah, so let's walk up the plant here for just a second, Mel. Um, I got a kind of graphic to show for a second. Um, and so this is a tobacco plant in the different primings, right? So why don't you walk us up it?

SPEAKER_06 24:53

So leaves from the lower positions generally are gonna receive less sunlight and they are on the plant for that shortest time period.

SPEAKER_09 25:02

And that's the volato, right?

SPEAKER_06 25:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 25:04

Um, they're an earlier priming.

SPEAKER_06 25:07

They tend to be thinner, often milder. Uh, these lower primings are sometimes called the volato, as you just mentioned, although terminology um and use really can vary by the country and also the producer.

SPEAKER_09 25:20

Right. So volato is very useful for combustion depending on the blend. And you see volato more in gordos to help bring that combustion.

SPEAKER_06 25:31

Right. Um, and so moving higher, you find those at seco leaves, and these can contribute the aroma and the balanced flavor. Above that, viso leaves, they generally receive more sunlight and they provide more body flavor and structure.

SPEAKER_09 25:47

Yeah, an interesting fact about viso um is when you're talking about viso is that you don't see it in as many blends as wrapper and binder come from this priming of the tobacco plant. Um, the finer, nicer, higher quality leaves become wrapper and then a little bit more damaged, maybe there's a little hole or rip or not as robust in color, often become binder.

SPEAKER_06 26:14

Right. And since more of it is used for those portions of the blend, you see it less often in the filler. Uh so moving up the plant near the top, that Lajero, that is receiving the most direct sunlight, and they tend to be thicker, slower burning, and higher in nicotine.

SPEAKER_09 26:34

Yeah, this is why Lajero is normally placed toward the center of the bunch.

SPEAKER_06 26:39

Right. You need help from the better burning tobaccos around it. Um, a cigar with that substantial La Hero can carry significant strength, even when it wears that pale Connecticut wrapper.

SPEAKER_09 26:55

Yeah, and it's one of those kind of things that in this case the filler blend carries more weight than the wrapper may suggest.

SPEAKER_06 27:03

Right. And that seed variety also matters. Uh, the tobacco's genetics influence the thickness, the flavor, the strength, and honestly how it responds to its environment as well.

SPEAKER_09 27:17

Yeah, absolutely. And that environment definitely has a major impact on the cigar because growing region has different minerals, different water, different sunlight, different amount of cloud cover, all of those things, right?

SPEAKER_06 27:33

That same seed that is grown in those two different regions, they can produce noticeably very different results.

SPEAKER_09 27:41

Yeah, I'm just laughing at Ray because he said he's halfway through a cigar because the un our time change that we didn't warn people about.

SPEAKER_06 27:53

Oh. Because we started late. Our 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_09 27:56

Sorry, I just I was thrown off by it. I thought it was funny. And so everybody's laughing in the comments. Uh you're talking about the seed grown in two different regions can produce noticeably different results. Um, and that's kind of a sun grown versus a shade grown matters. Um, that habano grown in Ecuador versus in Nicaragua or Dominican or in Mexico in the San Andreas Valley, all of those have very different flavor profiles, different body profiles, different complexity, and of course, tonight's topic strength.

SPEAKER_06 28:32

100%. Uh the shade grown tobacco that is going to be cultivated under cloth or natural cloud cover to reduce that direct sunlight. And that results in uh leaves that are usually thinner and smoother, probably a little bit lighter. The sun-grown leaves they receive more of that direct sunlight and maybe thicker or darker, absolutely, richer, they could be more robust. Um, but again, these are all just these are tendencies and they are not guaranteeing any sort of strength rating.

SPEAKER_09 29:07

Yeah, right, absolutely. And so uh not a um clever man said the fact that a cigar brand can release a consistent flavor profile through many years without varied tobacco, with how varied tobacco can be is insanely impressive. Um, I agree. It's absolutely an art, and these companies have been doing it for years, are fantastic at it. Um, that's one of the biggest challenges for us as we're blending cigars and making the next um productions. If the varietal or the vintage has changed a little bit in that tobacco, we actually had a cigar, our first cigar we ever released, which is filler number nine. And in that cigar, we got new tobacco vintage and we couldn't get it the same.

SPEAKER_08 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 29:52

We blended four or five. We have enough tobacco that we have a fifth anniversary version of that coming out next year. Um, and then we have enough tobacco that we're gonna hold and release that again, probably maybe year 10 of the cigar. Maybe we'll see. Um, but we couldn't get the same blend. And some people actually liked it better, other people liked it less, but we couldn't get it the same, and we were not going to continue that cigar with just a new blend.

SPEAKER_08 30:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 30:20

Um, and so it definitely made a change for us.

SPEAKER_08 30:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 30:25

Um, another factor comes into play as well, Mel. Fermentation impacts all four categories or profiles of a cigar in a significant way, including that cigar string.

SPEAKER_06 30:37

Yeah, I mean, that's a hundred percent true. The fermentation is gonna reduce the ammonia and those harsh compounds while they also are developing the aroma, the flavor, and the color. And the factors include how long those tobaccos are fermenting. So, how long the pylon becomes, uh, how often it's turned, um, how the leaf is conditioned, all of these things are going to affect that result.

SPEAKER_09 31:05

Yeah, and fermentation is not a machine where more time automatically means more nicotine or strength. Um, in some instances, the fermentation process produces more strength. And in other instances, it mellows the tobacco strength altogether.

SPEAKER_06 31:22

Right. That process it changes the leaf, really, and it does not give us a simple formula when darker equals stronger or uh any of those things, those blend proportions, they really matter. Um, a small amount of powerful tobacco that can change the cigar really dramatically, and the same components in different ratios, they can also produce a different experience.

SPEAKER_09 31:48

Yeah, these guys are giving us hell about time tonight. One says I drove all six states just to come make it on time to be in the lounge and y'all start late. Uh also he's smoking the Hoot and Young Jack Cars, fantastic, along with a Hoot and Young bourbon. Um, love that. Uh, great shout out to Jonathan Carney and the whole team there.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

I did see the comment about how somewhere, somehow, everybody has agreed to 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_09 32:11

Yeah. Uh so popcorn uh had agreed there, taught us a couple of weeks ago that we're doing a 90-minute show instead of an hour. Uh, we originally were sent out for 45 minutes, uh, but I like to talk. Um, another reality that's not discussed nearly enough, and you hinted at it a little bit earlier, is that the vitola or size of the cigar can change the actual profile slightly or the perception of that cigar.

SPEAKER_06 32:38

Right. And the smaller ring gauge cigar that is generally going to give the wrapper a larger uh proportional role in that blend.

SPEAKER_07 32:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 32:50

That large ring gauge is going to contain more filler relative to the wrapper, and the actual blend is adjusted by the manufacturer for each size, but there can still be some variances in there. Um, and that really means that two Vitolas in the same line, they're they can feel completely different in the body, the complexity, that flavor, and the strength.

SPEAKER_09 33:13

Yeah, and then the smoker can alter the experience by smoking faster or slower.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

Rapid puffing is going to increase that heat. The heat can also make flavors feel more sharper, uh more bitter, maybe more aggressive. Um, it can also deliver smoke and nicotine faster.

SPEAKER_09 33:34

Yeah, for sure. And because sometimes we've all heard somebody say that cigar became really strong in the final third. And part of that may be the blend, and part of that may actually be the accumulated nicotine streaks.

SPEAKER_06 33:47

Right, 100%.

SPEAKER_09 33:48

The increased heat, the condensed oils, the faster puffing as the cigar gets smaller, gets hotter. All of those things are major contributions.

SPEAKER_08 33:59

Right.

SPEAKER_09 33:59

The cigar did not necessarily transform into a darker wrapper while they were smoking it.

SPEAKER_06 34:06

Right. And there are really so many variables to this.

SPEAKER_09 34:12

There are. Um, our hope is that you rebels new to smoking are beginning to see that it's not all wrapper color that drives the strength of your cigar.

SPEAKER_06 34:23

Right, yes. So there is more to come after the break, uh, such as you know, the wrapper color spectrum, the four corner tests, and more. But first, we're gonna take a quick break.

SPEAKER_09 34:34

We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

We fell in love with cigars not because of the flavors or smoking experience or perceived status, but because it allows barriers to fall between other humans and build deeper connections. For that reason, we've been super intentional to curate a space where people can find community and enjoyment with others, and cigars just happen to be the way we're doing it. For that reason, we are thought to be the one and only cigar retail store and lounge in downtown Loving. A good story is one of the most powerful tools used to connect with another human. Sharing stories fades out differences and highlights similarities found in the details or with the storyteller. Over the years, we have seen some of the best stories told over cigars and thus, new friendships are made, compassion shared, encouragement here, and so much more. The impact storytelling has on the human connection is why we've decided to name our store and lounge our stories. Because behind every good cigar in conversation is an even better story.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

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SPEAKER_03 36:33

Big Sky Cigar. We're heritage full, which was ever draw. Find your rare red big sky cigar to pop.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

As always, thank you to our sponsors. Let's go ahead and take a look at upcoming shows.

SPEAKER_09 36:50

So next Monday night, we have a great cigar, great episode for you guys. Um, industry discussion. We're gonna have Tony Rollins with Still City Cigars live with us at Story Cigars and Lounge. Um, we're gonna be smoking the bell ringer by Still City Cigars. Um, as a reminder, all of these cigars are in your rebel pack. Um, you can get that at the Elevated Humidors website. Click on the cigar rebel at the top and scroll down to the bottom and subscribe. Um, Tony's gonna be on. We're gonna be live, we're gonna be doing a cut and light that night at Stories. So it'll start a little bit earlier and then do the podcast to hear all about Still City and Tony's journey in the cigar industry.

SPEAKER_06 37:28

Yes, I'm excited for that episode. Then on August 24th, we are going to be talking about how the industry is changing and a shift is coming. On that one, we will be smoking The Lady Jade by the Elevated Humidor.

SPEAKER_09 37:40

On August 31st, we're doing pairing series 101. We're gonna be smoking the Veld Mutiny by HDA Cigars. I love that cigar in the new Robusto. Um, and that pairing night is going to be snacks. And Leslie had asked about letting them know. And so we're actually going to be pairing the Veld Mutiny with different candied and roasted nuts. And so we're gonna talk, do some cinnamon ones, some sugar ones. We've got several different varieties we're gonna be smoking and sharing with, and we're gonna give you a recipe for the perfect paired nut recipe that you can roast at home in an air fryer or in the oven in about five minutes.

SPEAKER_08 38:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 38:21

And we're gonna be enjoying that and sharing it with a bunch of you guys live that are at Stories that night.

SPEAKER_06 38:27

Yeah, love that. Love pairing cigars with snacks. Uh, September 7th, we are doing the flavor note series and uh discussing, you know, creamy cigars. And on that, we will be smoking the Velvet Gold by the Elevated Humidor.

SPEAKER_09 38:39

And so that's a big one.

SPEAKER_06 38:41

That is.

SPEAKER_09 38:42

And so Velvet Gold is the newest cigar in our Velvet series. Um, it actually is releasing in August, and so that's gonna be an exciting um one to do. And so, all you Rebel Pack subscribers will be getting that early and having a pre um advanced opportunity to smoke that cigar. Um, we will have it for uh the people to come in and smoke at the lounge that night who join us live. Yeah, um, as always, if this is your first time watching, um please feel free to go ahead and click that subscribe button if you're watching on Facebook or YouTube. Um, you can also always get this on all of your streaming platforms, either it be Spotify, Amazon, Apple, and you can subscribe. If you are listening to this on the replay or watching the replay, we would love for you to go ahead and comment hashtag replay fam and let us know what you were smoking and pairing while enjoying the show.

SPEAKER_08 39:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 39:38

So uh, Mel, checking in on the cigar, you're much further in than I am. What are you getting on the cigar?

SPEAKER_06 39:46

I was trying to put it exactly exactly what I'm getting. I am not, you know, on that retro or on that cold draw, we were getting, you know, some barnyard in there, maybe a little bit of sweetness. Uh, I am not getting a lot of that when we first lit it. We talked about those coffee, underlying coffee notes. That to me, for this time, smoking the cigar in a completely clean palette is what is sticking out the most. You know, it's gonna be that, you know, that cool, crisp coffee, or maybe like the almost like a not an unsweetened baking cocoa, but along those, that's what I'm getting from it at this point.

SPEAKER_09 40:27

Yeah, so I and I've had several relights. And normally my rule is if I've had to relight it three times, I'm setting it down and moving on. Um, trying to get this, I've smoked a lot of this cigar. I've probably smoked a box this year.

SPEAKER_07 40:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 40:41

Um, and so I don't want to set this down. I'm wanting to be to honor it on the show tonight. Uh, with the relights, um, there's a little bit of harshness, but it's because of the relights.

SPEAKER_08 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 40:54

Um, but on the palette, there is that bittery cocoa. I I would call it almost a really dark, like an 80-90% dark chocolate. Um, and on the retro hell, I'm picking up just small hints, very, very small, of kind of roasted nuts. Um, normally I put in my notes. Hey, normally I get some cedar. I'm not picking that up tonight. I think that's the relights. Um, it could also be um, we've had technical difficulties across the board tonight. Uh, the ventilation in this room is stopped working about 10 minutes before we went live, and then the show wouldn't go live. And so uh it's just one of those funny things. But I'm enjoying it still. I've enjoyed this cigar a lot. Um, yeah, I'm not getting it tonight. I'm curious if anybody smoking this with us live is getting this. Um, are you getting any type of maybe sweet caramel or even kind of a nougat or a nugget, however you say that, whatever's inside of Snickers or a Milky Way. Um, I've gotten that in the past, but I'm not picking it up tonight. I think it's the real lights.

SPEAKER_06 42:02

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Normally I get some of those uh flavors in the cigar as well. This, like I said, this is the first one where that dark chocolate is very uh present for me throughout.

SPEAKER_09 42:17

No, and that's great. And I love the dark chocolate. Uh Leslie asked earlier dark chocolate without um peppery notes. This is one that typically doesn't have a lot of peppery notes for me. It's there on the cold draw, but it's not in the smoke.

SPEAKER_08 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 42:29

Um, but tonight that pepper was there in the first little bit, and now it's kind of muted and gone away. Um, but let's get back to the topic, but let's jump right to the heart of the conversation tonight and let's deal with the word at the center of a myth. Dark cigars are stronger. So Maduro, the word Maduro Mel, what does it mean?

SPEAKER_06 42:52

So Maduro, it is Spanish for mature or ripe. So in cigar language, it generally describes a darker wrapper that has underground the growing, the curing, and the fermentation necessary to develop that color and also those flavors. Uh, but Maduro, it's not just one seed, it's not just one country, uh, it's not one exact production recipe, and it's not a universal strength rating by any means.

SPEAKER_09 43:24

Yeah, and when a cigar band or description says Maduro, it tells us about the wrapper's appearance and processing with some hint toward potential flavor notes.

SPEAKER_06 43:36

Right. It does not tell us the complete blend. Uh, there are many tobacco variety of varietals that may be processed in Maduro, and that could include, you know, Connecticut broadleaf, San Andreas, uh, Brazilian Matafina, uh Habano seed tobaccos, uh, any other sufficiently durable leaves.

SPEAKER_09 43:57

Yeah, absolutely. And so why? Why do Maduro wrappers tend to come from leaves that are thicker and hardier?

SPEAKER_06 44:05

That's really because the extended fermentation requires the leaf that can tolerate the heat, the moisture, the pressure, that handling in there. Thin, delicate leaves, they may not survive the process in the same way.

SPEAKER_09 44:23

Yeah, absolutely. Those thinner leaves just can't really handle all of it takes to become a Maduro in color, in ripeness, in flavor. So walk us through the broad version of that process.

SPEAKER_06 44:37

Right. So after harvesting, the tobacco is cured. That curing is going to allow the leaf to lose moisture gradually while its color and its chemistry also change.

SPEAKER_09 44:52

Yeah, and that's an amazing process as it goes from bright green to yellow spots to fully yellow to brown spots to fully brown. And the aroma early in that process is awful. It's all ammonia. And then at the end of that process, it's is this heaven?

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So after the curing, that tobacco, it's fermented in the pylons or the large piles, typically in what is called a hand, which is normally 25 leaves. And then the moisture, pressure, and the naturally generated heat, they drive that fermentation. And the workers, they really monitor the temperature and they periodically are going to turn or rebuild that pylon so that tobacco, it's all going to ferment evenly.

SPEAKER_09 45:44

Yeah. And watching them do is they pick up each hand and shake it and then pile it on the next pile and they move that whole pile of 2,000 pounds of tobacco leaves from one pile to the next. It's a work of art. It is. It's beautiful, right?

SPEAKER_08 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 45:59

And Maduro wrappers generally receive enough fermentation to become darker, smoother, and more developed.

SPEAKER_06 46:06

Right. And there are a few ways that a cigar can be fermented and processed into a Maduro leaf. But really, for tonight's purposes, we're going to leave it at fermentation. That process that's going to help reduce the harsh compounds and that develops the aromas and flavors that are associated with the cocoa, the coffee, the molasses, maybe dark fruit, the earth, pepper, toasted sweetness, all of those things.

SPEAKER_09 46:38

Yeah, and there's so many different unique flavors that come from Maduro wrappers based on the varietal as well as the growing region. But a common explanation says that fermentation turns starch into sugars.

SPEAKER_06 46:50

Right. And that's often used as the simple description. But we should be careful really not to reduce the complex biological process to one sentence. It's hard because everybody wants things quick. They want it in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_09 47:06

They want instant gratification, baby.

SPEAKER_06 47:08

Absolutely. The useful consumer takeaway really is that the Maduro processing can develop and emphasize that natural sweetness while reducing those raw and harsh qualities.

SPEAKER_09 47:22

Yeah, which really means a dark cigar can be smoother.

SPEAKER_06 47:26

Right. And that surprises really a lot of people who expect that dark tobacco to really be bitter or punishing.

SPEAKER_09 47:34

Yeah, some of the most natural, sweetest traditional cigars in a humidor wear a Maduro wrapper. Right. They can be naturally sweet, naturally smooth, and bring these really light, mild flavors that have what I is that natural sweetness or that natural cocoa or chocolate comes from a Maduro wrapper.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

Right. I mean, rich, that doesn't mean rough. Um dark does not always mean harsh, and sweet doesn't always mean mild. And smooth doesn't always mean that it's weak.

SPEAKER_09 48:13

Yeah, and so that's the four myths in just a few seconds. Right.

SPEAKER_06 48:18

We're being very inefficient tonight, which really worked out with our 15-minute lateness.

SPEAKER_09 48:23

Yeah, you are being efficient and very direct. And I think people are loving the show, so appreciate you guys. Um, so Mel, tell us about ascuro. What is ascuro?

SPEAKER_06 48:32

So, ascuro is generally described as an especially dark wrapper, and it may appear a deep brown or really nearly black.

SPEAKER_09 48:44

Yeah, and so like one of the things is we have a Maduro cigar and an escro cigar in our line, and people have asked us a couple of times why do we have both? It's because they're different.

SPEAKER_08 48:54

Yeah, they are 100%.

SPEAKER_09 48:56

What's interesting is our Maduro cigar is actually darker than our Escuro cigar, but it's the fermentation process, that process of getting the tobacco ready.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

Right. And you have, I would say you have the people that they love the Escuro much more than the Maduro and Flip Side because they're so different that people are not putting them in the same category when they smoke them.

SPEAKER_09 49:19

Yeah, and this may be a shocker to you guys, but the blend's different now.

SPEAKER_06 49:24

That's true too. I mean, but they're just looking at the wrapper because they're not going to be able to know the blend inside.

SPEAKER_07 49:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 49:31

Uh unless they look at the our what the blend says, or they tear it apart and look at it. But even then, it's hard to tell by the eye. Uh, so like Maduro, the Aseguro, it's not an automatic strength rating on there, it can indicate that a heavier-looking leaf and a more intense flavor pro possibilities in there. Um, but the complete blend is still going to determine that experience.

SPEAKER_09 49:59

Yeah, and so tell us a little bit about natural. What does natural mean?

SPEAKER_06 50:02

So, natural is often used in contrast with Maduro. So, especially when a cigar line offers two wrapper versions.

SPEAKER_07 50:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 50:12

Um, but the natural is a broad commercial description, it doesn't identify the precise seed country or even the strength level in there.

SPEAKER_09 50:22

Yeah, and so when I first got into smoking cigars, I was really confused when you have a natural, a Connecticut, a Habano, a Maduro. And so it what it really means is that Maduro, Escuro, Connecticut, Habano, and Natural are clues, but not final descriptions.

SPEAKER_06 50:41

Right, 100%. And they're not going to be those complete biographies either.

SPEAKER_09 50:46

Yeah, and so let's give listeners a quick tour of wrapper color. Um, not an encyclopedia, um, but just enough to make the human or a little bit less confusing.

SPEAKER_06 50:57

Yes, okay. So here is the wrapper color spectrum. So on that light end, we have claro wrappers. These are going to be the pale tan or the goldens. Absolutely. Um they may have those flavors like cream or hay, cedar, maybe some toasted bread in there, um, almond, maybe some light pepper, but the blend can still make that cigar strong.

SPEAKER_09 51:24

Yeah, absolutely. I love that clero. Um, so let's talk about candela.

SPEAKER_06 51:29

So, candela, that is the green wrapper, in case anyone's not familiar. Um, the candela, it's going to be green because that tobacco's chlorophyll is preserved through the rapid curing process.

SPEAKER_07 51:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 51:44

Uh, typical flavors and associations, those are going to be the fresh grass, it's going to be the green tea, which is probably one of my favorites. Is that green tea candela?

SPEAKER_08 51:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 51:55

The herbs, the pepper, um, the distinctive natural sweetness. There's occasionally those hints of mint in there. Again, the green doesn't automatically mean that it's mild.

SPEAKER_09 52:07

Right. And so many people immediately think that green means bitter, it means mild, um, but it's really not, right? Um, in the Lady Jade, which we're going to be smoking here in a couple of weeks on the episode on the show, it's more of a medium plus cigar, yeah, not mild at all. So from the Claro and the Candela, we kind of then move through Colorado, Claro and Colorado. So tell us about those.

SPEAKER_06 52:37

Right. So when we go a little darker, that's going to be the Maduro and the Escuro that are going to move toward, like we mentioned, those dark browns and nearly black. And those are going to have common flavor notes that have cocoa, the espresso, maybe molasses, the dark fruit, earth, um, maybe some charred wood in there, um, the pepper, all those things, which thinking about those flavors, I'm getting almost that. I talked about, you know, cocoa and espresso. I'm getting a lot of charred wood off of this tonight, which I normally don't get, but that's seeing thinking through those flavor notes, that's what I was trying to describe.

SPEAKER_09 53:20

That charred wood is definitely there. Um, we kind of skipped over, and I apologize when we talk about Claro, Colorado Claro in Colorado is that natural reddish brown to rich medium brown. Um, this really fills in that habano, everything from a habano claro to a habano to Habano 2000. Um, and they really have that cedar, that nuts, baking spice, some natural sweetness to them. But for all of those, either it be Claro all the way through Maduro and Oscuro, they're flavor families. They're not nicotine reading.

SPEAKER_06 53:59

Right. Yeah, exactly. You can kind of think of the color as a clue to how that wrapper is gonna taste.

SPEAKER_09 54:06

Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about how we can make this myth impossible to forget for you rebels out there. And I like to call it the four corners test. So there's four cigar categories: light and mild, light and strong, dark and mild, dark and strong.

SPEAKER_06 54:26

Right. And first we're gonna talk about that light and that mild. Um, so a useful example is going to be the McAuliffe white. It wears that Ecuadorian Connecticut wrapper over a Connecticut broadleaf binder, and it has those fillers from the Nicaraguan and uh the Dominican, and the strength is really mild to medium. And this um is the combination I think most people are going to expect when they see that color wrapper on the cigar. It has a light appearance and it has a very approachable strength.

SPEAKER_09 55:03

Yeah, absolutely. And so, second is that light and stronger. Our example tonight for this is the Firecracker Connecticut by United Cigars. Light Ecuadorian Connecticut wrapper, um, Dominican binder and filler that's much stronger profiles than you'd find in that McAuliffe you're talking about. And this one really pulls off a medium to full strength body.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

Right.

SPEAKER_09 55:23

It to me is one of the stronger of the firecracker series, and it's the Connecticut, right?

SPEAKER_06 55:28

And that really breaks that first assumption correctly.

SPEAKER_09 55:32

100%.

SPEAKER_06 55:32

Uh so then we're gonna move on to the dark uh and the mild to medium. So our example there is going to be the Arturo Fuente Grand Reserve 858 Maduro.

SPEAKER_07 55:44

It's a mouthful.

SPEAKER_06 55:44

I know. I always seeing it, like thinking through it, like I always want to call it the 858 because that's what it's called. But in my head, sometimes seeing it, I just want to call it the 858, but it's 858. I always try to do that.

SPEAKER_09 55:54

Yeah, and to me, when I talk about it, I talk about the Fuente 858, but we wanted to give the whole name tonight so that if you want to go find it and smoke it, yeah, it would be doable.

SPEAKER_06 56:03

Yep, and that one's got that Connecticut broadleaf Maduro over those Dominican tobaccos, and that one has a very rich flavor, it's gonna have that natural sweetness in there, and it's a more approachable strength than really what the appearance is gonna suggest if you're looking just with your eyes.

SPEAKER_09 56:23

100%. And there that breaks the second assumption, right? Right.

SPEAKER_06 56:26

And then finally, we're gonna have that dark, and we're gonna have the dark and strong. And a great example for that is going to be the Arturo Fuente Anejo.

SPEAKER_09 56:36

Oh, amazing cigar. I've got two in our locker at stories. We got to smoke them soon.

SPEAKER_06 56:40

Uh, that one's gonna have that Connecticut broadleaf wrapper over the robust Dominican filler blend. Um, it's gonna have that dark appearance, it's gonna have a really rich flavor, and you are going to get some very substantial strength with that one.

SPEAKER_09 56:56

Yeah, absolutely. And this is where the visual assumption is finally correct. Dark and strong.

SPEAKER_06 57:03

Right. And I think it's that's really one of the reasons why this myth survives, no matter how many hundreds of years cigars have been around. Right. Many of those dark cigars are strong based on the blend, and many light cigars are mild. You know, those are the myths. Uh, the problem is when you turn that common pattern into the universal world.

SPEAKER_09 57:28

Yeah, the darker wrapper may match the strong filler blend, but it doesn't prove the filler blend, or really what it does is it proves the filler blend is strong, therefore the cigar is strong.

SPEAKER_06 57:42

Right. And there are just a few cigars that stand against that myth, um, but they continue to be one of the most, that really continues to be one of the most persistent myths in the cigar industry.

SPEAKER_09 57:55

Yeah, in social media, honestly, it doesn't help, um, but it does sometimes make me question if this is so easy to disprove, why does the myth really persist, Mel?

SPEAKER_06 58:08

Right. It's really because judging the strength by the wrapper works just often enough that it feels reliable.

SPEAKER_09 58:17

So true.

SPEAKER_06 58:18

Yes. So manufacturers often are going to pair dark wrappers with those substantial filler blends.

SPEAKER_09 58:24

Yeah, they and also they want that darker wrapper, then they the appearance, the flavor, then the darker and richer branding comes with it. Right. And strength to all communicate the same idea.

SPEAKER_06 58:37

Right. You're gonna have the dark box, you're gonna have that dark band, you're gonna have those words like bold or black, maybe reserves on there, intenso, um, puerte, ascuro. The entire presentation is going to prepare the customer for a heavier cigar.

SPEAKER_09 58:58

And then you find a Connecticut, and that Connecticut cigar often uses cream or gold or white in softer branding, much like the McAuliffe white.

SPEAKER_06 59:07

Right. And that visual language, it really reinforces that expectation.

SPEAKER_09 59:12

It does, like everything's built to lead you toward mild or built to lead you toward strong. The flavor creates another problem. Dark cigars often deliver flavors people describe as heavy: espresso, dark chocolate, earth, leather, molasses, black pepper.

SPEAKER_06 59:30

Those flavors they might feel more intense, and the smoker interprets intensity as the strength.

SPEAKER_09 59:38

Yeah, and the reality is the nicotine impact might be mild or moderate, but the flavors drive that expectation or that description.

SPEAKER_06 59:50

Right. Then there's also the beginner recommendation tradition, and that's going to be for many New Year's, the smokers were told, you know, start with a Connecticut, then move to the Habano, then graduate to the Maduro. Right. It is total side note. I hate when people talk about graduating to other cigars. I feel like it makes sometimes it can make people feel like they need to up what they're smoking or what they're enjoying is not good enough because they have to graduate to something else. But it is a very common word in the everywhere. It's a great way to be like, oh, you could graduate up to this because you love this. Like, but try something new because you want to, but don't feel like you have to.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:31

Yeah, they treat cigars as if it's a video game.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:35

Right, right. So level one, you're gonna have that Connecticut. Uh, you gain just enough experience to take that you to the next level.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:42

Yeah, level two is Habano.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:44

Right, right. And now you're ready for the final boss, which is gonna be that Maduro, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:48

And if you defeat the Maduro, you've unlocked the lounge jacket that you get.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:55

I'm still waiting on my lounge jacket, then. If that's what we're doing, I'd I'd I'll take my lounge jacket now.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:00

Yeah, but video games are built that way, they're built to let you build a little bit of experience just so you can face the next set of challenges in the next level, and so on and so forth, till you've developed enough skill to meet the final boss. Right. We treat cigars that way as cigar smokers, as tobacconists, as people who want our friends to try the cigar. We start them here and we try and build them up to it, and it's really wrong. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:28

And the that problem is the progression, it I think leads to that confusion, that color with strength and strength with sophistication.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:38

Right. And a person does not graduate from mild cigars.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:42

100%.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:43

I think mild is a preference, it's not a beginner stage at all.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

Experienced smokers, they may love mild cigars because they appreciate subtlety, balance, and aroma. We talk about I like more stronger strength cigars or whatever, but I really enjoy a mild cigar a lot. I mean, I go back to those mild cigars.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:06

And a new cigar smoker may actually prefer full flavor and they might actually prefer full strength. The goal is to match the person to the cigar, not move everyone through the same ladder.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:20

Right. And I think social behavior, it also reinforces the myth as well. Uh, people like the simple rules, you know, dark equals strong. It's really easier to remember that than to maybe evaluate or look at that complete blend, the tobacco, the varieties, the primings, uh the proportions in there, the processing, the bitola, and then, of course, your personal nicotine tolerance.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:46

Yeah, absolutely. And that's like um not a clever man talked about earlier about not having the nicotine impact him. So, Mel, we've spent a lot of time explaining the wrapper color tonight, and the wrapper color cannot tell us some things. But before we wrap up tonight, I want to talk just for a moment. What can wrapper tell us?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:10

Right. It can help set up those flavor expectations. A Connecticut shade wrapper, you know, that can suggest the cream, um, the cedar, the hay, maybe the toasted bread, the almonds, that mild pepper in there.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:24

Right. A Habano wrapper may suggest its flavor notes cedar, leather, earth, red pepper, baking spice, that natural sweetness, almost caramelization type of flavor.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:34

Right. And that maduro wrapper that can suggest the cocoa, the coffee, the molasses, uh, the toasted sweetness in there, the dark fruit, the pepper.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:44

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:45

And along with the oiliness and also the sheen that comes with many Maduros, I love that. You are establishing a fuller and a pleasant mouthfeel to the experience.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:58

Yeah, but the most important thing you said tonight in the entire podcast is something the rebels should know. May suggest is doing some important work.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

Yes, 100%. These are tendencies. Uh, the country, the seed, the processing, and the age, they all have major impacts on how the wrapper presents itself to the uh cigar smoker.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:24

And additionally, as we have already said tonight, the entire blend can move the strength and the body and the flavor really in different directions.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:33

In so many different ones. And we don't want to leave out aroma and combustion. The wrapper definitely contributes to the aroma of a cigar.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:42

Right. And really, in my opinion, it's oils and combustion, they influence the overall aroma notes and the smoker's aromatic experience.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:53

Yeah, and talking about combustion, the wrapper must burn in harmony with the binder and filler. Its thickness, its elasticity, moisture, fermentation, and preparation all matter in ensuring your cigar burns perfectly.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:08

Right. I think the wrapper definitely deserves the attention that it gets. We just want to make sure that it is getting the right attention.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:17

Yeah, 100%. The mistake is asking the wrapper to answer all of the questions about the cigar and not considering the blend.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:26

Right. And so one last thought for tonight that smooth and balance does not mean that the cigar is going to be mild. A strong cigar, it can be very smooth and balanced, giving that false sense of strength. And then it hits you 20 to 30 minutes into your smoking experience.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:46

I've been there. Yeah. I had to walk across the street, across the parking lot to grab a bike to eat. I'll tell you tonight, this cigar is a more on the mild to medium to me, but it's hitting me a little strong tonight. Um, I haven't eaten in a few. Hours and I've been drawing on this hard to keep it moving and keep it lit because of the burn issues. Like I said, normally I don't have that with this cigar. I'm having it today for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:10

Right.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:11

Um, a mild cigar mill on the opposite can be rough around the edges with harsh or bitter notes, but that's just a tendency based on how the blend is.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:21

Right, right.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:22

And like you said earlier, each characteristic can be so true of dark and light colored cigars.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:28

Right. So Rebels, there you guys have it. The misunderstood cigars. Dark cigars are not always strong, and light cigars are not always mild. And the industry pushes toward medium to medium full cigars, and there are outliners in each category.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:47

Absolutely. So, Rebels, we hope you've enjoyed tonight. We're gonna have another Misunderstood here in a few weeks, and we're gonna talk just like some of our other series with Develop Your Palette Tobacco 101 series, the pairing series we're doing. We're gonna do a little bit of this flavor notes series. Um, Misunderstood's gonna fit into that. So, um, just about once a month, we'll have one of these 101 series to kind of keep giving you some updates, and it's really around education.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:15

Right.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:16

How do we educate the rebels out there? For you guys that are real enthusiasts or aficionados and have been smoking for a long time, these are just reminders. For those that are new to cigars, this is how you begin to build a palette and understand so that you're making better choices and not simply going off of visuals. It's the old thing: don't judge a book by its cover, do not judge a cigar by its wrapper. 100%. So, Mel, what were your final thoughts on the Montosa Maduro tonight? But it's distributed by United Cigars.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:46

So I just finished it, and for me, the flavor notes for me stayed very similar throughout, which I think I mentioned when we talked about it last time. The flavor notes did intensify for me a little bit more as I got towards the end. So it was the same flavor notes, just more there.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:04

Yeah. So mine really carried through, but unfortunately, the consistent relights um definitely had a lot of problems with the cigar. Yeah. Um, it said it's not normally with this cigar that I see, um, but definitely um an issue there. But overall, I enjoyed it. The coffee bean was there, the dark chocolate, all the things that I was expecting from this cigar. I missed some of the notes that I enjoy with it. Um, I'll smoke another one tomorrow and see how it goes.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:33

Yeah, right. Well, that is, I think, all for tonight. Thank you guys so much for joining us. If you liked this episode, please leave us a review, share with your fellow cigar lovers, and hit us up with any topics you want us to cover in future episodes.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:47

Yeah, if you're watching this or listening on replay, um, go ahead and drop us a comment, as I said earlier, hashtag replayfam and click notify button so you don't miss any episodes. Um, next week we have a great episode for you, Rebels, with Tony Rollins joining us live to have a conversation about still city cigars. But as Mel said, tonight, that's our show.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:07

Yeah, thank you guys for tuning in and bearing with our little bit of a late start tonight. And don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. And until next Monday at 7 p.m. Central time, keep your cigar lit, your ash long, and your palate curious.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:21

Good night, Rebels.