Episode Twentyseven - The Final Girl

Welcome to Haunted Ozark Theater … H-O-T … your “hot” horror podcast! This week we are taking a look one of the best known and most loved horror tropes - the final girl; from conception to implementation and a rundown of the most notable actresses to make it to the very end!

Title Song: Hellfire by Alexander Nakarada (CreatorChords) https://creatorchords.com Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com Creative Commons / Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Graphics by Jacob Hedges

© Haunted Ozark Theater 2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to Haunted Ozark Theater H O T, your hot horror podcast. And we did not preview our topic last week because we hadn't quite landed on one.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

That was uh my fault too. Well, we're a week behind because I've been in class.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

So I guess it's been two weeks since we have had a new episode. And yes, it's Cody's fault. He's putting work first, you guys. Goodness gracious. Shame on me, man. Um, but we decided that this week we're gonna talk about the final girl, and we will get into some specific final girls, but I want to talk more about the concept of the final girl and how it is a unique horror trope. Yeah, absolutely. But first, we gotta do this day in horror history, and this is a good one. I'm excited about this one. I'm excited to get your input on this one. Okay. Today is the birthday of one Mr. Craig Sheffer. Do you know who Craig Sheffield is?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm guessing I should.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

You'll know him when I tell you what he starred in.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Okay, go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Go. He was the main character. I think his name was Aaron, but he later had his name changed to Cabal in Nightbreed.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Uh awesome. I love Nightbreed. So great mask. Give me give me your thoughts on Nightbreed. It's kooky, and that's why I love it. And um, man, I've always do you ever go to triggertreat.com? Oh, yeah. Have you seen their their collection of Nightbreed masks? And I gotta load up on those. Yeah, it's not a movie I've watched a lot, but every time I've watched it, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

The whole idea of it. I I it's a classic.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

It's is it cult? I would say it's a cult classic, only because it bombed at the box. I didn't know that. Yeah, it absolutely bombed. And it turned Clive Barker off to directing to the point that he had somebody else direct Candyman. That's why? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because he had directed Hellraiser, that went great. Studio gave him a big bunch of money to do his next movie, which was Nightbreed. And it totally flopped. And so when it came time to make his next movie, he just said, Take one of my stories and I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

And they did Canyman.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Yeah, they did canning man.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Wow. I wonder, have you seen anything how he feels about it now? If it's like, oh, I actually like, does he care for the movie or Nightbreed? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

As far as I know, he loves it. And now it's loved. Yeah. It's definitely a cult classic, but at the time, it just didn't resonate, I guess, with with audiences or critics, and it just it didn't make any money. Nobody went and saw it. What year was that? 90 is when it came out. Okay, 1990. So it was filmed in the late 80s. And that leads me to the two questions that I want to ask you. One is is Nightbreed the most Clive Barker of all Clive Barker's movies?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Ooh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think it has it definitely stands out on its own.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

It has the most personality. Yeah. Has his personality in it. Also, is Nightbreed one of the um quintessential 80s movies? It to me the movies are horror movies. Well, horror movies. Okay, yeah, okay. This is a horror podcast. Well, you said movies.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

My son, so I'm like, I don't know about that. Quintessential 80s? It's got well, I mean, it's all the boxes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

What I mean by that is like stylistically, it just kind of oozes 80s.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

What would you compare it to? Um, we say the closest thing to that would be.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Oh man, it's it's unique.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

It's very unique.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Should we give a little synopsis?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

We need a sequel.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Oh, yeah, that'd be cool. We can leave it. Well, so basically, if y'all haven't seen it, I'm gonna give minor spoilers. Um all there's uh the main character, I believe his name is Aaron. It is, and he's in a mental institution, and his psychiatrist convinces him that he's actually a serial killer. Because there's all these serial killer killings happening around town. A little side plot, and the doctor convinces Aaron that he's the one responsible for him. So Aaron thinks he's that he's the serial killer, and then he's a dream or a vision or something of a lost city called Midian. It's crazy. And he goes in search of this place and he finds it in a cemetery, and the city is inhabited by the night breed, which are mutants, maybe?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

I'd say that's a good way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

They're they're like they're like monstrous versions of humans, and they've all been outcast. Yeah, I'd say mutants, good word. They've all been outcast from society, so they all live together in Midian, and um Aaron becomes kind of their leader. Their leader, yeah. Yeah, and it turns out that the killer was the doctor all along. Who what and what was his name? The guy who plays Aaron? Craig Shefford. What else does he mean? And today is his birthday. Um, he was I think that's it for horror. I looked at his filmography real quick, and it was all like I think he was in a river runs through it.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yes, he's a brother. Thank you. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So he was in a lot of stuff. Just that was his but I think this is his only real horror thing. Okay. But yeah, that's a it's a very entertaining flip film. It's very 80s, it's very Clive Barker.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I think that's one of the films you're either really gonna like it or you're really gonna hate it. Yeah, I don't think there's an in-between with that.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

It has great creature design, I think. There is a lot of different night breed, and every one of them is unique. There's not a consistent look.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Except that's what I was talking about with the mask, man. You can go crazy, and they're awesome looking. Yeah, they're really well done.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So, yeah, that's today in Horror History.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Well, happy birthday, dude.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Happy birthday to Craig Sheffer. Come be on podcast. He uh he brought us Nightbreed, which I'm very happy that he did because that's a good one. We have not talked about that movie. No, we haven't, and that's why I was happy to see it uh when I was researching because I said, Man, that's great, because it's a good one, it's one we haven't talked about. Let's let's get it after that. Absolutely so rewatches. What have you been re-watching?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So, dude, I won't lie to you. I've got to watch two things because I've been so swamped with classes.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Uh last Sunday afternoon, maybe I got to watch two, but I watched the original aired on TV that it's on YouTube, but it's like you're watching on VHS, but it was uh Halloween, but they have the extended coat where Dr. Luma says have you seen it? And it was just so cool because it's got the VH lines, it's got that 19, it aired in 1981. Okay, and it has has the commercials, and dude, that just put me in the mood.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I've never seen it with the commercials and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I'll send you the link. That's cool. You gotta watch it. Yeah, that's and then um the second one I had to watch because of what we're talking about today, and that's 2015, The Final Girls.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

So I watched that last night, and it's I have that one on DVD. Yeah, I've always loved that movie.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Oh, yeah, that's a great movie. Yeah, that was a great one. And I thought it'd be fun just to that one's kind of super fun and funny and original, and very unique, yeah, very original. Um, I I don't think anyone's really done that concept before or since.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

And again, I'm waiting on a sepal for this one. I've been waiting since uh it's been 11 years now.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a good one. That's a good one. What about you? I didn't re-watch anything, but I did watch two movies that I hadn't seen before. One, uh, my daughter, my youngest daughter, who has been getting into war. And I think I talked on the podcast that she's very fond of Finn Wolfhard, the kid who plays Mike in Stranger Things, and also plays young Richie and it. Yeah, he's getting that. She's very fond of this kid. Well, apparently he's got a band. He does have a band. Had to listen to it. Apparently, though, he um wrote, directed, and starred in his own horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I've heard of this. What's it called?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

It is called Hell of a Summer.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, it was it, it's got like the is that the one with the marshmallow killer? Am I wrong about it or a doctor killer? Okay, I'm thinking of something different.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, that's something else. But so uh I watched Hell of a Summer with my daughter, and it's decent. It's decent. It's it's definitely um, I think if I'm not mistaken, it takes place in the 90s. Uh it's a brand new movie, but it takes place in the 90s, and it's your average teen summer camp slasher.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Okay, what's is the slasher cool?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

He's pretty cool. He's pretty cool. Um he wears like a like an old 50s style devil mask, like when people would dress up like the devil. Okay. You know, with uh with the pointy chin beard and the horns. Yeah, so that's the mask. And it's it's rated R, but the kills felt more like PG 13 kills.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Kitty kills. They were kitty kills.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

This is this would be a good gateway horror. It reminded me a little bit of uh Fear Street 94, but not but not as good. Okay, not as good as Fear Street 94. That's the jam there. It was still decent and still worth it. Worth a watch. It's worth a watch. I enjoyed it, and I would I think that you would enjoy it, but I don't think either of us will revisit it. What'd you watch it on? It's on Hulu. I got I'll check it out. Yeah, yeah, it's decent. Okay. What's that other one? The other one, this is the big surprise that I have for you. Okay, let's see it. We received an email last week. This is totally unsolicited. I didn't this isn't like when I met Haynes Whitmore at the convention, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were emailing back and forth. This person cold emailed us, and I obviously they have heard of the podcast and reached out to us. Well, kind of a big deal, Paul. Um It puffed me up a little bit. You've been puffed me up a little bit. Um so I got an email from this guy, he's a director in Hawaii, and he made his own horror movie called Plankenstein, and it's about a killer surfboard.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Are you messing with me right now?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I am not messing with you in the least. So I watched Planckenstein because I wanted to. I I was my curiosity. Um so I watched Planckenstein, and I have homework for you. I want you to watch it. And if you and me are in agreement, we're gonna have him on. We're gonna have him on. He he wants to come on and promote the movie, and he even offered to have the lead actress and producer join him on the chat.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, so we could be having See, dude, we're mass communicating.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

We could be having uh another guest coming up here.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

How do I watch it? Let's tell five people out here.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Uh I watched it for free on Tubi.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Okay, I have Tubi.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

But if you don't want to watch commercials, you can rent it on Amazon Prime. Okay. And Plankenstein, Surfboard Slasher. He calls it the world's first surfboard slasher. Okay. I'll check it out. Um it is, yeah, that's original too. It's funny. It's a horror. It's a horror comedy. Well, I I would guess that. It's a horror comedy, and they nailed a comedy. They really do comedy. Yeah, it's good. The comedy part is is good. The kills are good, but the effects are a little low budget.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Now, is it like that sci-fi afternoon? Like stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Now he did say in the email, he called it a micro budget film. So he did this on shoestrings, I'm I'm sure. Now, for if we have him on, we could find out exactly what he spent. For the little bit of money that they spent, it's impressive.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Hell of a job. It's impressive. And this is what we're talking about. Just having the passion.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

And yeah, the passion is all over it, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

That's what we love here.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

I was thinking to myself after watching it, and as I was drifting off to sleep that night, I was thinking like, if you used this as a proof, and then he got a little studio money and was able to remake it on a bigger budget, it could be a cult classic. It could be a cult classic. It's it's funny, and it's it's it's a surfing slasher movie. Like, it's no one's ever done that before. And he even says, like, I I believe he said I I created the world's first surfing slasher movie.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I don't know what I'm more amazed about that there's a movie about that, uh-huh. Or someone in Hawaii has listened to our Yeah, yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

It's pretty cool. Um but uh oh, what was I gonna say? Um yeah, he said in the email, he said he was walking on the beach and he saw a broken surfboard, I believe, and he just had this idea. I'm gonna make a horror movie about surfboard, and he did it. Why not? Go for it. He went, he followed through and he made it happen. So them are the people we like right there. Exactly. Following through the city, that's exactly the dedication to horror. Yeah. So yeah, you gotta watch it and then we gotta reach out to this guy. Absolutely, let's do it and make something happen. Okay. All right, let's talk about final girls. Let's do it. Let's talk about first and foremost, like just the idea and the concept uh and the trope. Uh what is it?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I'd say the final girl is one of the horse most iconic archetypes. Yeah. The last woman standing who confronts the killer and survives, or at least outlasts everyone else. The best ones aren't just survivors, they evolve, adapt, and often turn the tables. Today we're going to be having an in-depth look at some of the strongest, most influential girls in horror.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. And I like that you said that they don't just survive. There's actually an article that I read while I was doing some of my research, and it was making a differentiation between final girl and survivor girl. Absolutely, and there's a difference. There is a difference, and we're gonna get into that. But did you know that the term final girl is relatively new? The concept's been around for a while, but the term is actually fairly new. Um, this lady named Carol J. Clover wrote an article in 1987 where she was talking about the slashers of the 70s and 80s, and that was the first time she used the term final girl. So it's only been around since 1987. Okay. Um, but here's some quotes from her article about uh Final Girl. She says the viewer begins by sharing the perspective of the killer, but experiences a shift in identification to the final girl partway through the film. Victims are killed one by one, culminating in a climax in which the final girl vanquishes the killer or escapes. And the final girl's victory is often ambiguous or only apparent. Nice. And um that in another yet another article, the um ambiguous ending or the apparent victory of the final girl, they called it sequel bait. I think I've heard that. I hadn't heard that term before. I think I might have heard that. That's pretty funny, sequel bait. And I think that as a horror fan, you automatically know what that means when you hear the term sequel bait. You're like, oh yeah, I know that ending. I know all too well. Yeah, 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Well, I've got two things here. I want to talk about real quick. I want to ask you, I've got some things. What makes a final girl great, real quick, before we go over our list? And at the very end, my final girl against your final girl. Oh, yeah. Let's pick one that we would want to be in that horror movie with and go, she's got my back. So let's be thinking about that. Okay. So I've got a little list here. All right. What makes a final girl great across all these characters? A few traits separate the best from the rest. I've got adaptability. They learn quickly and they adjust. I've got awareness, they notice danger before others. I've got resilience, physical and psychological endurance. I've got agency. They just don't run, they fight back or outthink.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And the last is transformation. Many evolve from ordinary to extraordinary.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah. So that's my list. Those are good, good qualities, good characteristics, and I like that. I feel like a final girl, as we kind of mentioned, does more than survive. She finds a way to go toe-to-toe with the big bad, who is often supernaturally enhanced. You know, the big bads are often unusually strong or unusually durable, right? Or even unkillable.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And the final girl always finds a way to rise to the occasion and go toe-to-toe with these behemoths, you know, that otherwise can't be beat.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

And when you talk about like that term, such as the final girl in the 80s, but man, how long has the final girl been around?

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

For I mean, since whores have been around, right? Really, it's usually the final woman vanquishing the the killer.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah. Um I was looking back at you know, movies that have a final girl, and I do think that for most of the infancy of horror, we had more survivor girls than we had final girls. Final girls, I think, and this is just my observation and opinion, came to be a thing more with the rise of feminism. As women as women's empowerment, women's lib became a thing in the 60s, the 70s reacted by giving us final girls. Right. That's kind of just my take on it. Um, and it's great. It's great because of the juxtaposition. Like we said, the killer's almost always a guy, and he's almost always huge.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

And the survivor's usually a small little petite woman. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah. And so it's neat. What's that saying? It's neat to see him, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

That this woman, I mean, you don't have to have all that that they can overcome, and they're they're strong, and as you know, we're everyone knows who's listened since day one. We have daughters.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

And you know, I'd want my daughter to be the final girl in the world. I think you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, I think that that's one of the neat things about horror, and I think that's one of the things that keeps attracting new generations of horror fans and and allows horror to endure, is that um there is an empowerment element to horror. And most often that empowerment is uh represented by a woman.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Do you think that women, and that would be good to I mean, can we know women, uh, but do you like to see themselves in that role and maybe empower them because you know?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, oh absolutely. I know that you know, we just went through all seven screen movies with my daughter, and she thinks Sydney is a bad mamma jamma.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

So what's this say about me that I think of myself as the killers?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

It means that one day you're going down. Right. At the hands of a final girl. It'll happen. Um no, it's it's it's very it's a very cool thing. And I think that other genres have picked up on it. Meaning Well, now it's not so uncommon to see a female action star.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

A lot more common, you know, right. That's the birth from Final Girls. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

I think so. I think that definitely helped it. I think that uh Hollywood probably saw the success of you know the the the Final Girl trope and thought let's let's apply this to non-horror movies, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Well, what I'm gonna mention, and it's not horror, we could debate it, but it's not on my list. But I wanted just an honorable mention because she is a badass woman, and I'm talking Sarah Connors.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

She didn't make my list because I'm not saying Terminator is horror, but dude, I put her up again. If you can take on the Terminator, you can take on just about any villain, right? Yeah, Sarah Connors is badass, especially in T2. Yeah, man, doing the pull-ups, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Back muscles, right? It's hardcore in T2. Um, no, that's a good that's maybe that's the first instance of what we're talking about. Maybe that's really at least where the final girl archetype crossed over into a big Hollywood action film. That could be the genesis of it right there. How about that? I mean you just you just nailed it. You're welcome. You ready to get started on this list? You want to go? You're welcome. Um, okay, so before I kind of went now in uh chronological order.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I went no order and picked the ones I like.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

As far as uh as far as I was able to ascertain in my homework, it was 1974, and two movies came out that gave us uh like textbook final girls. Like if these were the this was the first time where the final girl checked all the boxes of what a final girl should be.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Is it one of those final girls, Sally?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Absolutely. Text Chainsaw Oscar, uh Marilyn Burns as Sally. The other one, Black Christmas, Olivia Hussey as Jess.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

So I'm gonna uh I another survivor, she just um not a final girl, she just survived that movie. And I don't think if who Jess? No, Sally. Sally she's not the same at the end of that movie. She is not Sally anymore. I think if you look at her now, if she's still alive, she's in a psych ward because she is at the end of that just the love and hysterically. And but she she had to put up a fight to be running and screaming.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, I mean it's not like she outwits the killer like manual. But she had to She had to fight for her life.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying I do you count her as a I don't know how I'm trying to say it. She's just survived in my book. She's not a Ripley. Well, I agree. I agree. Nothing, don't take it, nothing against Salad. Because you're going against Leatherface and you live. Right. My hats off to you.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

But um she was the to me, these two that I'm that I'm highlighting, this was the first time where we can really say, let's let's have a conversation about final girls, you know. Because like one of the things that I read was they called, I forget her name, but the girl who survives in psycho.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

They were like, she's the first final girl.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

And then she well, what girl, we're not talking about the one who gets slaughtered in the shower. You're talking about her sister, right? Who goes with the boyfriend to okay?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah. Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

But she didn't have to really do nothing. She didn't have to do much. Yeah, the boyfriend knocks Norman out in the cellar.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

In the um in the article where the lady coins the term final girl, she says no. Psych the girl from Psycho is not.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Well, then I'm gonna I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna raise your two movies there, 1974. I'm gonna ask you this, Duke, uh, why are we not gonna say 1973 exorcism Reagan isn't a final girl? She outlasts the devil, dude. Yeah, yeah. Is she not a quince? I mean, we don't Will you would you mention her?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I don't know, because like she sort of she how much fighting does she did she actually do?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Is it all the priest, the fathers of right?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Right. But I mean, this is the this is the appeal of this topic is that we can go back all through cinema history and we can say, well, was she a final girl?

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Was she a final girl kind of debated?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

You know, and and I think that's that's fun to do. But just from from my money's worth, I just pegged Sally and Jess as the first two where I looked at them and I said, they check they check all the boxes. All the boxes.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

You know, I like all the boxes.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Uh mine, dude, is I mean, right off the bat, it's Laurie Strobe, played by the screen queen, Jamely Curtis. Lori is arguably the blueprint in Halloween. I would she's observant, she's cautious, she's she's grounded. Traits that keep her alive against Michael. What makes her elite elite is her evolution. By Halloween H2O, and especially in Halloween, she's transformed into a hardened survivalist, essentially, essentially becoming the hunter. Lori represents trauma, turn into preparation, one of the most realistic long-term arcs in horror.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

I agree. And especially in the new trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, the 2018.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

They show her as badass.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

She's been training and that is not to get too much into Halloween because this is all about the fun girl. That's what killed me with Halloween ends.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

And how it just kind of like that went away on her, and she's, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

She's in bed for most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

But dude, that Lori in 2018 is yeah, she's shooting that shotgun and then the knives.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

I would agree wholeheartedly that she you know, galvanized that blueprint. Right. And that uh all the final girls who came after Lori owe a debt to Lori. Absolutely. I would 100% agree with that. Um you mentioned earlier about like them being observant and figuring things out that other people around them aren't just aren't feeling figuring out. One of the things that this lady, Carol J. Clover, talks about is the um the moral qualities of a final girl. And I think Lori Strode um encapsulates these quite well, which is they're usually totally sober, they usually abstain from sex when everybody else is they're the good girls. They're the good girl, they're not distracted, they're not sex or incapacitated by drugs and boys and everything. So they're present to pay attention and keeping them alive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

And that's a life lessons, kids. Yeah, that's a lot. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

No, for sure. And I I think that there's there's certain certain horror movies that poke fun at all the you know, don't don't have sex, don't drink, don't do drugs. But really, I think that you know, some of the earlier films like Halloween, they put this in there very intentionally, and not to be funny. They put it in there to so that there's an actual life lesson, a cautionary tale. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, I I I would totally agree that Lori sets the standard, and everything after that is following in her footsteps. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

That's a good answer.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

She was next on my list because I do go chronologically, so you she was next on my list anyway. No, but I will say, because you mentioned her earlier, um, the next movie chronologically to come out was would be Alien.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah, and that's funny. That's I have Ellen Ripley.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Ripley is played by Segurid Weaver.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Ripley from Aliens isn't just a fine girl. She's a sci-fi action icon. She survives not through luck, but intelligence, leadership, and strict adhesance to protocol, which everyone else ignores.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

An alien, she evolves into a warrior without losing her humility. Ripley blends emotional depth with raw toughness, redefining what a female lead in horror action could be.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah. And I like what you said. Like in part one, she follows the protocol. And no one else does. And no one else does. She doesn't want to let him on the ship. Yep. Um, she takes over command, you know, even though she doesn't really want to take over command, she takes over command because she's next in line in the protocol. And um, that really does allow her to survive in the end, is in that she she does what's supposed to be done in the given situation. But in aliens, she becomes more of a warrior. Badass. She she picks up she's badass. She picks up the gun, she picks up the grenades, she picks up the flamethrower. She's out for blood. She takes them down.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Um, not to get too sidetracked though, but mom, if you're listening, uh Ripley is a special place for me because it always reminds me of my mom.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

And I thought my mom looked just like her when I was a kid. So that's it's she's special to me in that way.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

That's awesome. I love that. Ripley's.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

She's no joke, Duke.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

She's always been one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

You want her on your side, Duke.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Definitely. Always been one of my favorites. I've talked about Alien being one of the first movies that I remember watching as a kid. Aliens being one of my favorite movies that I saw in the theater in the 80s. And I have kept up with the franchise. I've watched every Alien Anything that they've ever come out with, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

That character means a lot to you.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Uh all the way up to uh last year with Alien Earth, you know. That was that was one of my favorite things that came out of last year. And that, yeah. Um, but it all starts with Ripley. It does. It 100% all starts with Ripley. Okay. So after Alien, that brings us to a trio of Final Girls. Uh, I'm gonna talk about Friday the 13th, and each one of the first three movies has a unique final girl. And I think this might be the first time where a franchise takes the idea of final girl and runs with it.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

So in part one, we had uh Adrian King as Alice, and we had Amy Steele as Jenny in part two, and then in part three, we had Dana Kimmel as Chris. Chris Higgins. So this might be the again, this might be the first time where a franchise is like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna do this final girl thing with each of the these movies, but it's gonna be a different girl each time. It's not Lori Strode in for the long haul or Ellen Ripley in for the long haul. But the trope is there, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:49

And they've like you said, they've really run with it.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

They really run with it.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Out of those three, man, you're because you know Friday 13th, that's my wheelhouse. That's yeah, that's my baby of Jenny is my my go-to-fine rule in that. Okay. Uh Jenny stands out because she uses psychology against Jason. Yeah. If you remember part two, she's the one who she sees the sweater and you know the and she puts the sweater on. Listen to Mother Jason. Yeah. By understanding Jason's trauma, she manipulates him long enough to survive. It's one of the smartest confrontations in Slash District.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

I would totally agree with that. She she uses her wits, and that's an important part. A lot of these final girls do end up in the end stepping up and physically going toe to toe. But it takes wits and brain and cleverness. And she uses it. And she does, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

And she's one of those um, I don't know if you know a lot about Friday the 13th and that. She was supposed to be in part three, and they were gonna have it in a cycle ward. But Halloween two, they were like, Oh, that came. And she um her agent said, Oh, that's not gonna be a big movie, don't worry about Friday 13th no more, and she turned it down. But I I've always wondered how that movie would look.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Adjacent in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Okay. Yeah, interesting. I know I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

What do you got? My next girl, let me get my list here. Um, I bet it's one who was coming up real close to you, and that's Nancy Thompson, played by Heather Langenkamp.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Nancy is unique because she studies her killer, Freddie Krueger in a nightmare on Elm Street. She sets traps, experiments with sleep deprivation, and activates strategy, actively strategizes. She's less reactive than most final girls. Nancy becomes a tactician. By the end, she's just not surviving Freddie, she's confronting him in psychology.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah. Well, and she the events of part one shape her to the point that she goes to school and studies.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, and then she helps the kids in three. Exactly. Exactly. So and she's an awesome and I I really dig Nancy, man.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah, I do too. I do too. I think that as far as the 80s go, I think I think Lori is the blueprint in in Halloween and the 70s and going forward, but I think Nancy owned the 80s when it comes to Final Girl.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

I hate that they killed her off.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Um in New Nightmare? No, in three. She dies in three, dude. Well, okay, yeah, because New Nightmare, it's it's not Nancy, it's Heather. Heather, exactly. Yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Um, yeah, but that you know, she sacrificed herself. Stuff to say about the kids, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

What she was the Dream Warriors, yeah. But no, her.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

I love Dream Warriors.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

I don't know. Thinking about these movies, man, and I just, dude, you gotta fall asleep. Freddie's like the last person I think I'd ever want to face. And I've always asked my friends, like, who would you rather go get Michael, Leatherface, Jason, or Freddie? And yeah, I think I could survive this, but you gotta fall asleep. Right. Right. Some of the ways Freddie kills you is uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

No, no, that's a good point. But Nancy finds a way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, she always and she is a she uh very is much a tactician.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Yeah, for sure. Um, you got any more from what I would call the classic age of the 70s and 80s?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Uh oh, yes, one more. Um, and you're surprised you're not gonna mention her. Christy Cotton, played by Ashley Lawrence, Hellraiser. Oh, yeah. Christy from Hellraiser survives through negotiation and intelligence rather than brute force facing pinhead and the cinnabites, she uses wit and quick thinking.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

She's an awesome one too.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

I am also surprised that she doesn't get enough credit. I had a big old crush on I think beautiful, dude. Um after watching Hellraiser, not only do I love Hellraiser, and I think it's a fantastic movie, and I think that Hellraiser is actually underrated and underappreciated because it's gotten tons of attention uh over the years, but I still think it's somehow.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

I I don't know why it didn't fit in that niche with uh maybe because it was more hardcore, like um bondage kind of and maybe too taboo at the time. It wasn't your typical Jason, you know what I mean? I mean the cinnabites and they were nasty people.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah, she's a great final girl, and and she is one that I would love to meet at a convention. Did you not put her on your list? I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Wow, that's it's shocking to me.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, it didn't. It's that's one that if I would have if I would have occurred, if I would have thought of it, I definitely would have put her on my list. And it didn't pop into my head. Okay, but it should have. And I'm sorry, Ashley. Please forgive me.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Okay. You want to go, what do we want to go into this?

SPEAKER_00 38:59

I want to go into kind of the modern day final girl.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Well, then you know who we're gonna say right off the bat, dude. Are we gonna say Sydney Prescott? We're gonna say Sydney Prescott, dude.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, I and and I would say that Scream and Sydney is the line that I would draw and say the horror girls who came or the final girls that came before Scream and Sydney are kind of like the classics. Yeah. And Sydney kicked off the new age of Final Girl.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

And I just remember that line in the original Scream, like she's even talking about the some bimbo's running upstairs when she should be running out the front door. It's pathetic, you know, and she's absolutely right. But Sydney from Scream is meadow where she understands horror rules and she uses that knowledge against Ghostface.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Across multiple films, she remains grounded, intelligent, emotionally resilient. Sydney doesn't just survive one massacre. She repeatedly outsmarts different killers, making her one of the most consistent final girls ever. Dude, she's gone. I mean, and it's always the same costume, but a different killer, different traits. And she's That's what's most impressive.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

You know, Lori outlasts Michael Myers. Yeah. Michael over the course of 40 years, but it's uh but it's just Michael. Right. And he walks. Yeah. But Sydney has to, you know, outlast a new duo of killers every almost every single day.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

You know, looking back at it now, thinking as a dad, like I say that a lot things as a dad, but um Sydney, this poor girl, she just loses her virginity, she's in love with Billy, and then boom, he's the killer. Yeah, she's like, that would screw you up. Yeah, and then that really plays into part two when she's in college because at the end of it, it's her boyfriend's tied up and she's going, is he the killer? And I love the way they use that dynamic because even as the viewers you're like, oh, as we've seen this before.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah, no. No, I I hear you. And uh I will say, I don't think you've seen part seven. I haven't. But in part seven, she's just a certified bad bad mamma jailin. Oh, yeah. I gotta watch it, man.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

I mean I'm gonna wait to watch it with my dogs.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

She's just um she's a force. That's ultimately what it comes down to is she becomes a force, not just equal to, but greater than whoever puts on the ghost face mask. And she's hardcore. And I and watching it through my daughter's eyes over these past few months and seeing my daughter react to Sydney with huge amounts of admiration, you know. Right, absolutely. Like we were kind of like talking about how bad Ellen was in Ellen Ripley was in Aliens, or how bad Sarah Connor was in T2. That's how my daughter is now looking at at Nev Campbell. She's like, this is the pinnacle of a bad woman, of a bad, bad, bad lady, you know, and a good way, yeah. Um, so that was neat to see because she she definitely puts her up on a pedestal to some extent, and she's like, man, that's that's one tough lady right there.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And besides maybe Lori, it'd be very close. I would say Sydney's probably evolved more than anyone.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

And fighting girls having that many films in the franchise. Maybe Lore, I mean, it's very close, but I think that there's different rate, different and um what's the word I'm looking for? Different Lori's timelines. Sydney's always been the same Sydney.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

That's true. That's true. You there's different iterations.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Iterations, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Yeah, for sure. Um, Sydney, to I think you said this just a minute ago. Uh, she stays humble and she stays pretty grounded. Yeah, she doesn't really go too crazy in spite of everything that's happened to her. She's normal, she's still pretty much a normal person trying to live a normal life.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Did you tell me in the new one? Correct me if I'm wrong, she's got a daughter? She's got kids? Okay. So I'm wondering, is it a good uh dynamic? Yeah, it's cool. I gotta watch it.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah, it's good. It's good. It's it is um without spoiling anything, there's this there's a whole you know subplot of is the daughter gonna follow in mom's footsteps or kind of a thing. You know, cool. It's it's good, it's really good. Can't wait to watch that one. Yeah, I think you're gonna like it. Um the next one that I want to talk about in kind of the modern age is Cabin in the Woods.

unknown 43:59

Kristen.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Connelly plays Dana. And what I like about well, I like a lot of things about Cabin in the Woods, but what I like about the character of Dana is if you recall, um at the end, they have to kill. They killed everyone in the world. Well, they have to kill to appease the old gods. They don't appease the gods. They don't. They they fail. Spoiler. But to appease the old gods, they have to kill certain archetypes in a certain order. So they identify Dana as the quote-unquote virgin. So she fits into the final girl, you know, definition in that way. But also, she has to be the last one to be sacrificed.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

So she fits into the final girl definition in that way as well. So this is kind of like Scream and it's meta awareness. But this one really calls it. There's really this one really like it's the pot calling the kettle black. It really is like pointing at Dana and saying, Virgin Final Girl, Virgin Final Girl. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, let's just let's not beat around the bush. Let's just call it what it is. And in that way. Make a commentary about horror and about these kind of movies in this particular trove.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, absolutely. And you went really deep with that. Yeah. That's awesome. That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

I love that movie. And I I think I I don't know if I've said it on the podcast, but I think I did um say it to you one time. I went and saw this movie with a buddy who was a horror fan, and he brought his girlfriend who was not a horror fan. And we left that movie, and both me and my buddy were like, that was fantastic. She didn't like it. And she was like, I don't get it at all. Like, yeah. But you have to have a pre-existing knowledge of horror and all of its to really appreciate that movie. Some cliches and things to really, yeah, to really get the most out of that.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

But it's still a good movie. Yeah. Like I watched it with non-war fans, and like, yeah, that's that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

That's really cool. Mermaid Man or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Mermaid. Merman. That is gotta be one of the funniest things that's ever gone on in a horror movie. He's got his money on Merman, and then in the end, Merman, he's Merman's victim.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

The thing about that movie that I love, I love being surprised in Worn movies, especially horror movies. And going in, um, me and two other buddies went on a I think it was a Wednesday or Thursday right after work, and I didn't know nothing about it. They knew nothing about it. And when that you see what's really going on, and it's just like, wow, this is so fun.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

That might have been one of the last movies that really did surprise me. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was good. That was good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Okay, well, I've got two I'm gonna mention real quick, and uh we're talking about more modern. Yeah, fun girls. Um, let me see if this rings a bell. I'm gonna say, no, not her yet.

unknown 47:16

Not her. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Where'd she go? Aaron Harson.

unknown 47:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Ring the bell. Great movie. I know you've seen it. She is the final girl in You're Next. Oh. Okay. Aaron flips the script completely. She, you find out at the end she was raided raised in a survivalist environment. Yeah. She's more dangerous than the attackers, and I love how you find out at the end, and she starts killing him. I absolutely love that movie. That's right. She is BA dude. Good call. That one came to my attention. And uh the second one that I really, really like because me, Haley, and Layla, we all went and watched at theater park one and two, and they're so fun. It's her name is Tree Gilbin. You know what I mean? Happy Death Day dude. I she's an awesome final girl.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

I'm still waiting for a part three of that.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Because I love both of those movies, and those were ones that those are great gateway ones. They really are those are ones that even my wife sat with us and watched those two, and the whole family loved both of those movies. Those are those are good.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Yeah. I still have the ringtone. It's your birthday. Oh, yeah. Because you hear it about 150 times in that movie because she keeps going back and forth. That's right. So I have that one, and then my last one I wouldn't mention, and I seen this one in the theater with the girls, and I was blown away. I really didn't think I was gonna like this movie. It was the invisible man. Oh, okay. Because she is really smart and that and you feel so bad for it because. Elizabeth Moss.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yep. From Mad Men. Yeah, that's a good that's a good film. That was I don't know if that was the first one that was supposed to kick off the new Universal Dark thing, and it did a really good job kicking it off, and then they've all kind of fallen apart from that scene. Yeah, that's too bad. Because that was a good movie, and I I hate to see wasted potential, but I'm gonna flip the script just a tiny bit because I want to talk about a final girl who not only survives, but then usurps the villain, becomes the villain. I'm okay. They're talking about uh Shawnee Smith as Amanda all saw. Yeah, I didn't even didn't make my lit. That's awesome, though. Yeah, so she uh you know outlasts Jigsaw in the first movie.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

I can't stay in that needle scene.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

But then she becomes Jigsaw's apprentice, yeah. And eventually takes over for him. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

And so that's what do you call that though? I mean, I mean, that's yeah, totally. That's not what we're used to seeing.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Right. And that was that was probably, I don't know if it was the first time, but it's the first one I remember where the final girl becomes the kid evolved in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Well, she went down the wrong path the dark side.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

She went to the dark side, yeah. And on that note, um one more example is in Terrifire.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yeah, and there's more for her to come.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Samantha Scaffee um definitely as a Victorian.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

But she becomes his not done.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

She becomes his his partner in grind. Yeah. Uh, you know, after getting her face chewed off.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Okay, I'm sorry, I've been thinking of the final girl. I thought that's where you're right. Okay, yes. No, so yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

So just to bring it back, that's why I saved this one for last, because to bring it back to the traditional final girl, we have Sienna in Terrifier Two and Three. I'm sorry, I gotta mix it. Yes. She's your traditional final girl, but in Terrifier 1, um, Victoria is the final girl who survives, but she's her face is basically eaten off by art, and she loses her marbles and then becomes art's sidekick, essentially. So she ends up helping Art, especially in part three. She becomes his pal.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

And his pal, good word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Another if art's got pals, another uh another problem for for everyone else to worry about.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Dude, we could go on and on with every horror movie just about and that's what I want to say, ladies. I love you. I love women in general. You are awesome, you're all badass. But you've had your fun in the sun. Let's start getting some final guys in here, okay? You've had your fun, you've shown that you're stronger than us. The guys are always dying, you're always saving us. Hey directors, can we get some guys saving the day? You want a final guy? We there's a couple horse that got the final guys, not many, but they're out there. But no, I'm just joking. It's uh it's awesome to see these women stand up and kick some butt, dude.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Well, maybe we need to make a movie where the killer is a female and the final guy has to go up against the female killer. We almost got it in Dolly. Dolly just fixing the same dolly, yeah. But it was ended up being girl on girl. Yeah. Not in that way.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

She's super human, dude. Dolly's a beast. Yeah. That's a good. Um tap my tip my hat to the final girls out there, and all you women listening, you're all final girls. You can you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah, every one of you is a survivor, girl power, and every one of you is beating the odds every day.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Coming from two men we know.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

So quickly, uh, let's talk about what's coming up. This Sunday, we're heading up north to Red Beard Studios to guest on Dawn of Mantis. We've talked about Dawn of Mantis before, and we know the guys who do Dawn of Mantis, and they have generously and graciously invited us to be guests on their show. And it's more of a true crime thing. Can we tell them what we're talking about? Oh, sure. We're gonna talk about H. H. Holmes.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

People don't know who that is. He was a very nasty serial killer.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

He was maybe very nasty, one of the first serial killers in America to get, you know, like to grab headlines.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Notoriety.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yeah, to get some media attention, some notoriety. Um, we'll talk about him on the podcast. So hop over and listen to Don Amantis, not just because we're gonna be on it, because it's a great podcast. They've been doing it for years. They got they got hundreds of episodes, shows, man. And they've, like I said, more on the true crime side of things, but um in keeping with true crime, but also in keeping with this scary horror stuff, we're talking about H.H. Holmes. And then a week from today, they're coming to our studio and they're gonna guest on our show. And that's gonna be fun. And we're gonna talk about Night of the Living Dead and George Romero. Um, I was asking these guys, you know, which horror movies do y'all feel comfortable enough talking about? And one of the things that came up was Night of the Living Dead, and I thought that's perfect because this is such a landmark movie in horror history. Yeah, and we haven't really talked much about it.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Just a little bit. We haven't done anything serious, so this is really gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

This is gonna be a good episode because we're gonna do a deep dive on Night of the Living Dead and also George Romero in general, and we're gonna have some guests on to be fun. So it's gonna be a good time, all right. Y'all tune in next week for that.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

And listen for uh Donamantis, check them out. And also, uh a little plug to the the director. I'm sorry for getting his name and then the name of that movie, because I'm gonna check it out. Plankenstein. Uh check out Plankenstein. Let us know what you think.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Um, I didn't tell you his name. Now I hope I'm pronouncing it right. His first name is spelled D-I-Q. So I'm gonna say Deke. Okay. His last name's Diamond.

unknown 55:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

So Deke Diamond?

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Deke Diamond. That would okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

I believe is how you say it.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Well, if it isn't, you should.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Well, and if he gets well, if we get him on here, he can tell us.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

So check that out too, guys. You said it's on Tubi.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Tubi, and if you don't want commercials, you can rent it on Amazon Prime.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Awesome. Yeah, you guys have a great one. Take care, y'all.