Closing the Gap: Patient Voices and Pharma Transformation in the Middle East

How is patient engagement evolving in one of the world’s fastest-changing healthcare regions?
 In this episode, Ursula Mann and Christine Pisapia sit down with Mostafa Najib, a pharmaceutical leader with more than 20 years of experience across the Middle East.

Together, they explore how patient expectations are shifting, how technology and policy are reshaping access to innovation, and why meaningful patient insight is still one of healthcare’s biggest challenges—globally.

Why You Should Listen

• To gain a global perspective on how patient voices are being integrated into healthcare decision-making
• To understand what’s changing in the Middle East—and what remains surprisingly similar worldwide
• To hear real-world reflections from inside the pharmaceutical industry
• To explore how patient insight can shape better strategy, access, and outcomes
• To consider what the future of patient-centered healthcare could look like across systems

Episode Highlights

00:03:32 — Entering the pharmaceutical world
How Mostafa found his path into pharma and why the commercial side captured his interest.

00:05:03 — The rise of patient engagement in the Middle East
A look at how patient expectations and behaviors have shifted over the last two decades.

00:06:00 — The limits of traditional patient programs
Why awareness and access initiatives still fall short of capturing what patients truly value.

00:07:26 — When assumptions miss the mark
How physician perceptions sometimes diverge from what patients actually want or fear.

00:08:42 — Shared global patterns
Christine reflects on similar trends in North America—from “Dr. Google” to increasing patient advocacy.

00:09:05 — The evolving role of patient groups
Why patient associations are more established in Europe and North America than in the Middle East.

00:11:04 — Faster access to innovation
How regulatory modernization is closing the gap between U.S. approvals and local availability.

00:12:23 — Digital transformation (and no more faxing)
A lighthearted look at how digital health infrastructure has rapidly advanced in the region.

00:14:35 — What’s missing from patient insight
The everyday realities, symptoms, and priorities that often never reach the healthcare system.

00:17:09 — Shrinking visit time
How shorter appointments impact patient–physician communication and understanding.

00:20:20 — Designing a connected ecosystem
Mostafa imagines a future where patients, providers, payers, and pharma collaborate more seamlessly.

00:21:43 — When patient feedback redirects strategy
A real-world example of how one insight changed the course of a major investment.

00:25:30 — Surfing, seasons, and perspective
A glimpse into Mostafa’s life outside of work—and the waves he’s chasing next.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Ursula: Welcome to Amplify Elevating Patient Voices, a podcast powered by patient voice partners, where real stories spark bold conversations. I'm Ursula Mann.  

[00:00:12] Brent: And I'm Brent Korte. Together [00:00:15] we're talking with patients, caregivers, and the healthcare change makers who are listening and taking action.  

[00:00:21] Ursula: From personal journeys to policy shifts, these are the voices shaping a  

[00:00:26] Ursula: healthcare system that listens.[00:00:30]  

[00:00:35] Ursula: Welcome back to Amplify. The show where lived experience, leadership, and on the ground insight come together to shape the future of healthcare. I'm Ursula Mann and I'm hosting today [00:00:45] with my teammate Christine Pisapia. Today we're stepping into a conversation that spans continents, cultures, and the changing expectation of patients around the world. 

[00:00:55] Ursula: Christine, we're going to be talking today to a leader that was in the pharmaceutical [00:01:00] industry in the Middle East. And what are your thoughts with regards to healthcare around the globe and changes in expectations that we're seeing? 

[00:01:07] Christine: I have to admit, my experience was in Canada through my husband's experience in pharmaceutical. 

[00:01:11] Christine: It's like I get a sense of what was going on in the US [00:01:15] and also in Europe, but beyond that, it's all a bit of a mystery for me in the sense that I've never had that personal experience. And I did have some colleagues that came from those markets when we had marketing meetings where everybody was convened [00:01:30] for the release of a new brand, a new product, or whatever product launch, which was made it really fascinating. It was like the United Nations for pharmaceuticals. But I'm really looking forward to this session to learn more about the markets in the Middle East. 

[00:01:44] Ursula: I am as [00:01:45] well. This is really a conversation about what we can learn from each other and how understanding context makes us all better at delivering compassionate, effective and patient-centered care. I don't know that much about healthcare in the Middle East, but in our conversations for [00:02:00] patient engagement that go globally for sure, Christine, sometimes with rare disease, we have conversations about patients out of jurisdiction or patients experiencing, and as we're all working together, I feel like across the globe, to have patients [00:02:15] and caregivers center and forefront and included and have their voices heard. 

[00:02:19] Ursula: I'm really interested to hear about similarities and differences around healthcare transformation. So our guest today, Mostafa Najib, brings more than 20 [00:02:30] years of global pharmaceutical leadership to the conversation. He's a senior business strategist and a former country manager for Lundbeck in areas in the Middle East, where he led multidisciplinary teams shaped market strategy and helped the organization [00:02:45] navigate one of the fastest moving healthcare environments. 

[00:02:48] Ursula: He is also the author of two business books, offering insights into his industry journey and success strategies, and really having played a pivotal role in transformational growth and enhancing the [00:03:00] company's presence. I'm very interested in understanding. His interests in global positioning and communication that resonates effectively with diverse partners or stakeholders in different segments. 

[00:03:11] Ursula: So Mostafa, welcome to the show. Today we're going to be [00:03:15] diving in to talk about patient engagement, the rapidly evolving healthcare system, global pharma, as well as behavior, culture and communication. So I wanna welcome you to today's show, and I'm interested, how did you get into the pharmaceutical industry [00:03:30] when you first joined? 

[00:03:31] Mostafa: Thank you Ursula, for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be with you and Christine today, and that's a very interesting question. I entered the pharmaceutical industry because I'm a pharmacist by education, and the reason why I went [00:03:45] into the faculty of pharmacy, I'll be very honest, it was my dad wish.  

[00:03:49] Ursula: Oh!  
 

[00:03:49] Mostafa: So I wish that I'm going to be a pharmacist and I like chemistry. 

[00:03:53] Mostafa: I said, alright, I'm going to pursue this career. When I graduated from the faculty, I had many tracks [00:04:00] to go, either in the faculty as a teacher or inside the manufacture facilities or go into the commercial with the pharma industry. And I chose the pharma industry because it's very dynamic.  

[00:04:11] Christine: And being a pharmacist in a pharmacy was not something that you [00:04:15] contemplated at all? 

[00:04:16] Mostafa: No. I tried it for six months and I got very bored. It's not for me.  

[00:04:21] Ursula: Mostafa, I totally understand. Because I was a nurse and I went from nursing into the pharmaceutical industry, so different area. But pharmacology was my favorite course [00:04:30] in university. I just found it very fascinating. So you have had an amazing career across commercial strategy, organizational transformation, experience in market development, leadership and communication. 

[00:04:43] Ursula: I'm interested in [00:04:45] chatting about your experiences with patient engagement and really what's happening in the Middle East with regards to healthcare and the global movement towards shared decision making. Can you tell us a little bit about what you feel patient [00:05:00] engagement means in your region?  

[00:05:02] Mostafa: This is a very good question because I've been close in the region and close to the region for the past 23 years, and I can see that the patient engagement at the patient voice, in the [00:05:15] treatment discussion with the physicians is getting more and more important and more and more frequent. Like in my first early days, it was in 2000. It was very seldom that the patients come and demand or ask question. The only thing that he answers [00:05:30] is how do you feel? What are the symptoms? More and more right now? 

[00:05:34] Mostafa: No. They come very educated and willing to participate in the decision making with the physicians. As you know that in the pharma industry, we have a lot of barriers that [00:05:45] prevent us from interacting directly with patients. It is against our code and we cannot go directly and promote to patients and interact with them. 

[00:05:52] Mostafa: However, in every single post that I've been handling, there was always a patient programs. These patient [00:06:00] programs range from - education and awareness raising the awareness of a disease, reducing the stigma or a patient programs to improve the axis. And lately, more and more in when I became and one of the people who [00:06:15] put strategies, we needed to understand the perspective of the patients and our commercial order to inform our commercial strategies. 

[00:06:22] Mostafa: So it's not only the physician perspective, because we found in many cases. That how the physician feel that [00:06:30] their patient would feel or respond to a certain therapeutic class, to a certain procedure is not necessarily correct. Sometimes the patients, they feel that, oh no, if we have this treatment option, I would like [00:06:45] to have it. 

[00:06:45] Mostafa: However, physicians, because they have a very strong relation with the patient and they don't want to lose them and lose this relation, they're sometimes reluctant to propose. This treatment modality thinking that the patients will refuse or thinking that the patient [00:07:00] will feel, oh, my, my case is severe and I don't like that. 

[00:07:03] Mostafa: And in a nutshell, we found sometimes there is a disconnect in this topic and our role as a pharmaceutical company to bring even more the patient voice in the conversation with the healthcare [00:07:15] professional. Who are we always not there? Because in this conversation, the pharmaceutical industry is away, but we want to make sure that this dialogue and exchange happens. 

[00:07:24] Ursula: That's fascinating, Mostafa. I appreciate that. We have found that as well. [00:07:30] When we ask physicians what are some of the challenges, we get answers when we ask physicians what are some considerations and things they hear from patients. We also get very good insight. When we ask patients about some of the challenges, the answers are [00:07:45] at times different. 

[00:07:46] Ursula: And so it's important we feel to make sure every person has a seat at the table. And we're trying to do a better job of making sure in every therapeutic area, not just when new innovation is launching, but we're asking patients and [00:08:00] caregivers their needs, challenges, desires throughout the continuum, and figuring out what is the right way to be hearing from people directly. 

[00:08:08] Christine: Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you Mostafa, because everything you said right from the beginning is a reflection of what we've seen in North [00:08:15] America as well. Patients being more advocates for their own condition and speaking out and challenging sometimes the medical professionals in the direction of their treatments. 

[00:08:25] Christine: Some of this came with the internet, obviously. People, going to what they call [00:08:30] Dr. Google and getting some information. But it's really interesting to see that all these dynamics are universal and we've seen them in North America and you're seeing them in the Middle East, and I find that really interesting. 

[00:08:42] Ursula: And in your leadership experience, you [00:08:45] would've, out of the Middle East, engaged with other counterparts across the globe. Do you feel there were some differences that bubbled up in terms of things that were or were not happening with regards to patient engagement, healthcare systems, [00:09:00] technology across other areas? 

[00:09:03] Mostafa: That's a good question. Ursula, in one of my posts, I was global brand manager for one of the innovative treatment at that time for treatment of schizophrenia. And yes, the main difference, if I would say, is the [00:09:15] patient associations. So the patient associations are more developed in Europe, US versus the Middle East. 

[00:09:24] Mostafa: I think it is kind of an evolving concept. It's evolving here in the Middle East, but however, [00:09:30] we are far from being that organized. Like in Europe and the US.  

[00:09:35] Christine: Can you clarify that just for our listeners of what, because we have a wide variety of listeners on the Amplify podcast. What do you mean exactly in terms of patient association? [00:09:45] Do you mean patient groups?  

[00:09:47] Mostafa: Patient groups.  

[00:09:48] Christine: Okay. Got it.  

[00:09:49] Ursula: It's interesting that you mentioned that Mostafa. Because I worked with a group that I've known for many years and they actually track metrics as to where their people come from [00:10:00] searching for information. And even though the one that I'm thinking of right now is based in Canada, they did have a bunch of traffic from other areas, a bunch from the states actually, and a bunch from a little bit from other regions as well. 

[00:10:12] Ursula: So. I hope with the [00:10:15] internet availability, I wonder if more global patient organizations are getting sought and found by patients that are looking for information. We've had conversations with many people and as they put the hat of patient on because they received a [00:10:30] diagnosis, it's not a uncommon, and I've been in this situation as well where you don't know what you're looking for until you have a diagnosis or you might be seeking a patient group based on symptoms, but the value of the information is fantastic and support everything [00:10:45] from, based on what the group works, from education as well as other materials. But I wonder if people are looking on Dr. Google, but also with regards to the internet is to availability of groups. So anything else on the technology front that struck you as [00:11:00] different across different markets?  

[00:11:02] Mostafa: Not so far, Ursula. I feel like we are more similar than different in a lot of aspects. I will give you just an example about the product availability, product registration we used to have in the Middle East, the [00:11:15] products after it's launched in Europe and the US for at least two years, sometimes 3, 4, 5 years, which in a way preventing many of the patients in our region to get early access to this medication. 

[00:11:27] Mostafa: Thankfully enough, in many countries here right [00:11:30] now in the Middle East. Once the product is approved in the US it's approved in the same day or in the same week in the Middle East.  

[00:11:38] Ursula: That's interesting.  

[00:11:39] Mostafa: Yeah, it's actually something that's happening in the past two years, thanks to the leadership [00:11:45] here in the region who invested a lot in technology. 

[00:11:47] Mostafa: So the level of technology that we have here in the Middle East is as far as Europe and the US.  

[00:11:53] Ursula: So Mostafa, I have to ask you. We do a little bit of fax in Canada, which is a little bit weird, got better during [00:12:00] COVID, but I'm embarrassed to say fax is alive and well, which is very bizarre. So, am I 

[00:12:05] Ursula: hearing you correctly?  

[00:12:06] Christine: maybe in your region? Ursula? 

[00:12:08] Ursula: Okay. Over on the western side of things, but we've certainly seen improvements in digital health, telemedicine, and national e [00:12:15] platforms, but it sounds like things are going quite well and latest and greatest, so to speak. No faxing is what I'm hearing. Is that right?  

[00:12:22] Mostafa: No fax. Yes. No fax. The last time I heard the fax was with my dad. 

[00:12:28] Ursula: Yeah, my aunt says [00:12:30] it's the invention of the century. She has not gone on to email yet, but I don't have my fax set up anymore, so it's been a communication barrier. 

[00:12:36] Christine: Mostafa, can I just ask a question  

[00:12:38] Christine: about what you mentioned earlier, how could you get approval so quickly after the FDA gives approval to a product? 

[00:12:44] Christine: [00:12:45] Is it because you pretty much submit your dossier to your regulatory bodies at the same time that the Americans do and to the FDA and the timeliness about the same for both regulatory bodies. How can you coordinate that because that's not an easy feat?  

[00:12:59] Mostafa: [00:13:00] That's an excellent question, Christine. 

[00:13:01] Mostafa: The governments here, they worked on the regulatory framework and they updated it very nicely where you have, for some products, who has the FDA approval, you have the fast track, and then the fast track is within [00:13:15] six months, you're going to have the product approved in the country.  

[00:13:19] Ursula: Wow.  
 

[00:13:20] Mostafa: And some occasion when the product is a breakthrough, they allow like it comes like within one week, within two weeks after the US which is something very [00:13:30] good for the patients here because they don't need to wait.  

[00:13:32] Christine: Exactly. So did you hear from the patient groups, even though they might not be, has developed or organized in your region, as in others, but that must have been a game changer for them. I would imagine that pleased the patient [00:13:45] groups.  

[00:13:45] Mostafa: It is indeed. However, the feedback that we get from the patients is through the doctors here. 

[00:13:50] Mostafa: Along my career, I didn't work with any patient group in the Middle East. We did not foresee a strong patient group who was organized perhaps is the one that I [00:14:00] met was personal initiatives, but is not a body that you can work with.  

[00:14:04] Christine: Interesting.  

[00:14:05] Ursula: Mostafa, thinking of personal reflections in market behavior, I've heard you say that the industry has lots of data, but lacks meaningful insights.[00:14:15]  

[00:14:15] Ursula: What are your thoughts from a patient engagement perspective on the types of insights that might be underused or under leveraged in the Middle East as well as based on your interactions with colleagues in other areas globally?  

[00:14:28] Mostafa: Oh yeah, that is good. [00:14:30] Because there's lots of missing information. That we do not get from the patients, meaning what are their priorities? 

[00:14:38] Mostafa: How the disease really affect them, and which symptoms the most, what kind of activities they are losing because [00:14:45] of this disease, right? We try to find ways to get this information and we get it through mainly physician surveys, market research that we do for physician, and we ask them, what are the most common symptoms the patients come to your clinic and complain [00:15:00] from? This is not the optimal thing because sometimes the patient has certain symptoms, but he or she does not relate it to the disease, but it is related to the disease. I remember we did one study in Europe, and I wish that we can do one in the Middle [00:15:15] East, which is observation study where we observed the patients through the market research company where they go and they spend a full day with the patients. 

[00:15:25] Mostafa: They record What's the patient suffering from, right? This, unfortunately, I [00:15:30] didn't manage to do it in the Middle East so far.  

[00:15:32] Ursula: Thank you for sharing and it's really interesting and it can get complicated because what we hear over here is. It can happen that if patient is seeing a specialist or a physician type, there might be talking about that diagnosis, [00:15:45] whereas the patient also is managing other diagnoses or other comorbidities, and so it's not necessarily. 

[00:15:52] Ursula: They don't have the ability to holistically talk about everything, which can also lead to not understanding and that [00:16:00] differential, that's one small part. There's many reasons for those different vantage points, but that's one part where it wasn't discussed in. So how would a healthcare professional know when that wasn't the focus of that particular visit? 

[00:16:12] Ursula: That's fair.  

[00:16:13] Mostafa: That's true.  

[00:16:14] Christine: And Mostafa, I [00:16:15] love what you said about understanding what the patient priority, what their priorities are from their standpoint, because sometimes the healthcare professional will focus on a particular symptom, getting a certain value, either in going in the right direction, in [00:16:30] whatever metrics that they're measuring, but for the patient, it's all about their quality of life. How does that translate into what they're doing from a day-to-day perspective? And for them, the priority might be different one. But that feeds into my next [00:16:45] question is I know that in Canada, people have very little time with their physician in their office. 

[00:16:51] Christine: Is that the same in your region or do the patients at least have a little bit more time to go into that kind of discussion?  

[00:16:58] Mostafa: I'm not sure how much time [00:17:00] they spend versus Canada, but what I can tell you their time is getting shorter and shorter.  

[00:17:04] Ursula: Okay.  

[00:17:05] Mostafa: We have here two settings. We have the private setting, which is private clinics, and we have the government setting and the government hospital. 

[00:17:12] Mostafa: And of course the pressure on the hospitals are [00:17:15] much more bigger and the time is less. But even from where I started. My career in 2002 to where we reach now, know the time has been shrank significantly.  

[00:17:25] Christine: And all the more reason than to get the perspective of [00:17:30] patients because that's where you realize that, first of all, it's never a good idea to go through somebody else to understand the perspective of the patient, whether it's a physician, a nurse, a pharmacist or whoever else, but especially when that person has very little time with that patient, how can they [00:17:45] probably speak to the needs of that patient when they're spending so little time with them?  

[00:17:50] Mostafa: Yeah, that's true. I feel like in pharmaceutical industry and you've been there, our role is to improve patient lives. 

[00:17:58] Mostafa: We have lots of [00:18:00] investment that we are responsible for. In order to use this investment as a company to improve patient lives, so hearing the patient his own story, what he's suffering from, what is his priority, will allow us to channel our [00:18:15] investment in the right channels, either to educate the public about stigma that hurts him, or share it with the physician that, or the healthcare professionals, what their patients really need so they pay more attention in this [00:18:30] domain. 

[00:18:30] Mostafa: So it's more and more, I see it is important that we find a way to hear directly from the patients. What they need, what their priorities. So help us to prioritize our investment.  

[00:18:41] Ursula: Mostafa. That's really powerful and I agree. It's [00:18:45] even looking at value the different way because what if the innovation, everything from how it is positioned or described to how it is evaluated for reimbursement can change based on subsequent feedback. 

[00:18:57] Ursula: Christine mentioned earlier, quality of life. [00:19:00] And that's so important, and how do we measure that with regards to being able to describe what that means to people and is there alignment between what we think people want and value versus what they actually value and want and need? With regards to [00:19:15] an area, it's challenging and I can understand having been in the pharmaceutical industry, why it was perhaps delayed for so long. There are different privacy considerations. There are different compliance considerations. Those are heightened, understandably, and they should be, and it's not [00:19:30] necessarily all teams at a pharma company that has a process and can seamlessly engage. With patients. I'm proud of all of the patient groups we have the privilege of working with and knowing there's so much work on education and [00:19:45] co-creation, which I didn't hear as much about years ago. 

[00:19:49] Ursula: I feel like this is getting discussed a lot more and having a seat at the table all through the innovation cycle, but having processes in place that are comfortable for. All parties with [00:20:00] regards to that, particularly that privacy and compliance angle, I think really important and helpful. If you think ahead to the future, what would you like to say would be a perfect engagement ecosystem for chronic disease management across all [00:20:15] groups, patients, caregivers, clinicians, pharma, perhaps digital. 

[00:20:19] Ursula: What do you think is trending that you feel is on trend for Middle East and really other global areas that you find inspiring?  

[00:20:26] Mostafa: Yeah, that's a very good question about the future. I feel [00:20:30] like there is a very big opportunity right now to close the gap with all the technological advancement that we have between the physicians, the caregiver and healthcare professionals, and the payers, government, and also the pharmaceutical [00:20:45] industry. 

[00:20:45] Mostafa: How we do that, I am seeing it's much there is a better opportunity to reach there versus five or six years ago where we tried to close the gap. And it was at that time, okay, you know what we do an application where [00:21:00] the patient go and with the input, yeah, it was a very nice idea, but there was hundreds of thousands of applications and you are asking the patients themselves to take the moment and to write or film the video. 

[00:21:13] Mostafa: But I feel like with the [00:21:15] technological advances and AI, perhaps the patient doesn't really need to input something. Give the permission to the AI to understand what he or she is feeling or what's a priority, and then feedback the system, the ecosystem.  

[00:21:29] Christine: That's [00:21:30] interesting.  

[00:21:30] Ursula: Mostafa, do you have any examples in the past something that you learned from a patient community directly that changed how the organization was thinking or a direction that you were going in? 

[00:21:42] Mostafa: Yes, I believe in [00:21:45] evidence-based decisions and strategies, right? So sometimes you are excited about your own innovation, about your own performance, product performance or feature, and then you build a lot of investment strategies, tactics. Then when you hit the [00:22:00] ground,  

[00:22:00] Christine: I think I know where you're going with this. 

[00:22:01] Mostafa: Yeah. Wait, okay. It sounds good and nice, but  

[00:22:05] Mostafa: no, the patient doesn't like it. And when I did this research, it was like maybe 10 years ago. Yeah, 10 years ago I got to hear about the patient [00:22:15] opinion from the nurse because she is the most closest person to the patients because I cannot interview the patients and basically said, no, no, no. 

[00:22:22] Mostafa: Patients. Yes, this is feel convenient time. Maybe reduce the time of preparation. But no, the patients will feel it's [00:22:30] so big. It was a device, so we had to pull back to just one feedback. We had to pull back lots of investment. I believe right now the pharma industry learned a lot, so now even in the research and development of the molecules, [00:22:45] we are getting the voice of the patients. 

[00:22:47] Ursula: Fantastic. 

[00:22:48] Christine: And imagine all the, like you mentioned, the time, the effort, the money that you save from getting it right, right from the beginning. Because otherwise you can go in a direction thinking, hey, this is going to be fantastic. And it's not. Sometimes [00:23:00] it's a delivery, right? And maybe the pill is just much too big and they can't swallow it properly. 

[00:23:05] Christine: And so you might have the best product on earth, but if they can't stomach it, if they can't take it. They're not going to go anywhere.  

[00:23:12] Mostafa: That's true. And another example, it [00:23:15] was like you are focusing on development of product to improve symptoms in the disease. Where at the end of the day, it is not very important for the patients, neither the doctors. 

[00:23:24] Mostafa: So you end up like, alright. I have a problem.  

[00:23:27] Ursula: That's interesting. It comes back to what's [00:23:30] valuable, what's important to subsequently think about how do we get there and are we focused on the right things? Thank you for sharing that example. That's a sizable deviation and direction for your organization based on inputs from patients and people [00:23:45] on terms of what they're focusing on. 

[00:23:47] Mostafa: Yeah, and I think, Ursula, regard the patient voice, why I feel it is very important today than years ago is that, by having the patient voice from the beginning, from the research and [00:24:00] development phase, and combine it with the payer's voice, which most of the time dictate a lot of decisions, right? And try to educate all parties. 

[00:24:11] Mostafa: This is what the patient needs. This is what the [00:24:15] payers periodize, and this is what the physician are following. And just bringing the patient voice, because this is the one that I feel it's still late in the equation. Everyone knows that the physician was key decision maker in the past, and then [00:24:30] the payers came along with a lot of influence on the decision. 

[00:24:34] Mostafa: But now I think it's more and more bringing the patient to the table. So the trial. Understand what is really important and make sense to the three of them, and then the pharma [00:24:45] industry can develop it and bring it to them.  

[00:24:47] Ursula: I love that. 

[00:24:48] Christine: Yep. Those are very good insights. 

[00:24:50] Ursula: A very interesting conversation just to hear how many similarities there are across the globe in terms of are we doing the right things? 

[00:24:58] Ursula: Are we hearing from the right people? [00:25:00] And what is the profile of the experts that we want to hear from? And does everybody have a seat around the table, including the patients and caregivers to talk about their priorities, challenges, needs, considerations and values? What's most important? So I wanna say thank you [00:25:15] for having this interesting conversation on patient engagement in the Middle East. 

[00:25:18] Ursula: And considerations around the globe. And to pivot and end on a fun note, I know you mentioned you were born in Egypt. You've moved around the countries a little bit, around [00:25:30] the globe a little bit. And I understand you're a surfer, so you have an upcoming trip that you're looking forward to. Can you tell us a little bit about that? 

[00:25:38] Mostafa: Yeah, I'm so excited for it. It's going to be my first time to surf in the winter in the west of France.  

[00:25:44] Ursula: Wow.  
 

[00:25:44] Mostafa: [00:25:45] And yeah, looking forward to see does the wave differs in winter than the summer and how my body's going to speak to the sea.  

[00:25:52] Ursula: That's amazing. We'll have to catch up after. You have to tell us if it was cold or warm and where you dressed right. And how did the waves compare to some of the other ones you [00:26:00] experienced? Mostafa. Fantastic. I wanna say thank you for joining us on this conversation today on Amplified, sharing your perspectives around leadership and patient engagement within the pharmaceutical industry and what's happening in your area. 

[00:26:11] Ursula: Thank you.  

[00:26:12] Christine: Yes. Thank you so much.  

[00:26:13] Mostafa: Thank you, Christine. Thank you, [00:26:15] Ursula. I'm very honored to be invited to your podcast.  

[00:26:18] Ursula: Delighted to have you with us today. 

[00:26:23] Ursula: Thanks for tuning into Amplify, a podcast powered by Patient voice partners. If today's story moved, [00:26:30] you share it, leave a review and help us amplify more voices.  

[00:26:33] Brent: If you're a patient or caregiver, you can join Patient Voice connect to share your experience and help shape research and care. Visit patient voice partners.com to sign up or learn more.[00:26:45]  

[00:26:45] Ursula: If you're a clinician, advocate, innovator, or system leader, and you like to be a guest on the show or share a story, reach out directly through the contact forum on that same page. You're also welcome to join Anonymously of Preferred  

[00:26:59] Brent: [00:27:00] Follow us on LinkedIn at Patient Voice Partners for updates behind the scenes content and to meet our upcoming guests. 

[00:27:06] Ursula: Until next time, stay connected. Your voice [00:27:15] matters.