Interview with Dr. Barry Taff - May 1, 2020

Dr. Barry Taff is a fascinating parapsychologist, scientist, and author. He's experienced some things the average person - even not-so-average, even extraordinary - will probably never go through. 

A key player in the real case behind the movie The Entity, he's spent 50 years(!) doing what he does best. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

We are not going to be watching the website. Hello everyone and welcome to Podcast TV of Cardcast TV. Yes, it has been a decade hard to believe, but it is true. And we are happy to be here. And I am joined as a cloud. I'm joined as always by my co-host and the producer itself with Robert's words. Whatever one is experiencing this colour to the question.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Well, to be quite honest until very recently, I didn't know what day of the week it was, but I'm uh I'm re-entering the workforce in some ways. So I'm doing well this afternoon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Well, I just had the marvelous news that my cleaning ladies are coming back online. And uh my cleaning lady has OCD, so I'm really happy. I'm not gonna fix our doing therapy on there at all. I like the test. I like the OCD test. Okay, anyway, we um we are so happy to be welcoming back to the program one of our uh very favorite guests of Dr. Ferry Taft, and we're gonna get into talking to him in just a bit. But uh Wes, uh wanted to give us a little bit of uh a little bit about very far listeners.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

I will do so. So you may not be able to see this as well. I'll just hold it up for a sec. But it's Dr. Taft's book called Aliens Above, Ghost Below. And I actually need to ask him at some point, hopefully in this interview, about this title. I have my ideas about it. Anyway, I'm gonna read directly from the back. Dr. Taft, who holds a doctorate in psychophysiology, I hope I said that right, with a minor in uh biomedical engineering, worked as a research associate at UCLA UCLA's former parapsychology laboratory from 1969 through 1978. During his 36-year career, um, which we we know from being booked as now a 40-plus year career, um, Dr. Chaff has investigated more than 4,000 cases of ghosts, haunting sculpture guys, and he has conducted extensive studies of telepathy and pre-cognition, which led to the development of the original protocols and methodologies for what was later coined remote viewing, a favorite thing of mine. He also was himself investigated as a psychic subject in 1969, the results of which entitled A Laboratory Investigation of Telepathy, the study of the psychic, were published in Behavioral Neuropsychiatry, volume six, numbers one to twelve, April, December 1974 to March 1975. And Leslie will fill in the rest of that intro.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Well, boy, I think that should be a musical behavioral neuropsychiatry, the musical. But many of you will be familiar with Dr. Very Taft as the principal uh advisor consultant on the very, very uh disturbing and and quite uh boundary uh some of its time called the entity test, the wonderful actors by the first. And of course, that was based on a real life investigation that was carried out by Dr. Taft and his associates itself. With all that being said, um it is my pleasure to welcome back to the program Dr. Barry Taft. Dr. Taft, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Oh fine. Thank you for having me back, Less. It's been a long time.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I understand that you have even are you still in the Southwest um or have you gone back to the Southwest?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

No, I'm still in the Southwest.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Okay. Well, uh we are very glad you could take the time now to join us and before we uh before we uh begin to make software chatting and we both started with things off with the ask you. Uh uh discovery of of all sorts of stand out to you in this time period the past five years of so because so much is going on, and a lot of things have to do with with uh quantum physics and things that you talked about years ago. So uh tell me tell me what's really speaking out to you, Dr. Taft.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Well, at this point, after being in the field for half a century, um, some patterns have emerged, some facts through those patterns, which are quite extraordinary. And we know enough now where the the the work I'm working model for certain things like poltergeist activity is somewhat beginning to unravel itself, to be explained. And it it's a lot more complicated than we ever imagined, and yet at other levels it's much simpler. You know, the the the word poltergeist means noisy ghost, noisy spirit. The belief of our ancestors was that that's indeed what it was. Well, that was a great idea, but it didn't turn out to val prove to be prove provable. You could test it. The evidence suggests that the phenomenon manifested in such cases is what we call recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis. But then again, that was as far as it went. And in science, there's two ways to do research. One is you conduct controlled studies in a uh you know laboratory setting and hope to call oh hope to prove out your hypothesis. Well, a lot of things that occur in parapsychology are not bro cannot be brought into a lab because it just it's the way the phenomenon works. You're dependent on hoping to experience it a sufficient number of times where patterns emerge. And if you look for longitudinal patterns, that those patterns give us a clue as to what's going on. And after fifty years, the patterns are so d discernible, they're so blatant, they're like hitting us over the head. And they're somewhat simple. Let me put up a metaphor. Um, you've got a DVD in your hand, you want to watch it. So what do you need? Well, you need a DVD player, you need a TV, they've got to be connected, they both have to be plugged in the wall. You then have to put the DVD in the player, and then you gotta use the remote to operate it. If any part of that ensemble is missing, you get n nothing shows up on the television. And the m the reason this model is relevant or significant is that when it comes to this phenomenon of poltergeist activity or hauntings for the most part, they may be the same, they may be different. The pattern is this. One is sort of location, location, location. It seems that these types of things happen in unique geomagnetic or electromagnetic environments in the sense that there's anomalous activity going on, and then then there are people within the environment that happen to have some neurochemical problems. The majority, if not all, the people that have recurring poltergeist activity around them, it's linked to them as opposed to a house of them. And they tend to be either seizure prone or epileptic, and it's very common that when they start taking medications to quell the seizures, the phenomena follows in suit, uh, which suggests that the same region of the brain that mediates um epilepsy, the seizure activity may be responsible for this phenomenon. So that's part of the equation. But then there's an there's one more important part. We discovered that apparently with all those things, the location and the energy, you need a person who is hypersensitive to these electromagnetic fields. And some very few people are, but when they are, it's blatant. And then the last part of the qu the equation is what we call inductive resonance coupling, which means that the person in that environment, their nervous system must link up with that environment that's external to their body, and when that happens, voila, things occur.

unknown 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So if all those things are rel are occurring in the right way, things begin to happen. Disembodied voices, banging noises, objects being thrown around, aports, um the whole thing. And it's so consistent that it's somewhat boring because you know, we go out, we interview the people, and the interview is quite extensive. And if the people refer refuse to answer a lot of our questions about their history, their medical history, and what medications are on, and you know, which includes recreational drugs, if they won't answer that, I usually just walk away.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Because they think they're hiding something. And so it's a very invasive procedure, but without asking questions, you don't get any answers. So that's the tip of the iceberg. And what's amazing is that the energy, for example, you're you're in a room and a large object, let's say a sofa or a man weighing 200 pounds, it's picked up by nothing visible to the naked eye and thrown across the room. And this has happened in more than one of our cases. Well, here's the problem that if this is this is based on what we know about the energies in the universe, before this could happen, the energies we know of would produce such heat as a byproduct of this, you know, the second law of thermodynamics, that the person's clothes would burst into flame, everything else in the room would ignite, and you'd you and everything else would be immolated. That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Which means that we're looking at an endothermic process, which could be the only endothermic process of this nature that exists. And it see the it where the energy, like for example, if you're sitting still, that's one thing, when you move, your body uses more energy, produces more heat than when you're sitting still. If that energy was used to pick up a heavy object and throw it, you're using 20 times the energy you'd use to sit still. So imagine a force that's invisible to the naked eye picking up and throwing massive objects around. And it it's we're looking at a force that if we come to understand it, it changed the course of a human existence. Because it does work without heat. That doesn't happen in the world we live in. So this could tell us a lot about the world we live in, but also change it in a very productive and positive way.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

So do you think, Dr. Taft, that this that this fascinating kind of alternative uh force could be could be managed, or do you think also that there are that there are individuals that can um can in fact uh control it psychically through through desire or magic or will?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Well, first of all, let me explain something. There are two types of psychokinesis. There's macroscopic, which you call poltergeist activity, where sometimes heavy massive objects are moved around, and it's unc it's random, it's for spontaneous. The people aren't making it happen consciously, it just happens. Then you have the microscopic type, which is something that you actually try to make happen, affecting a random event generator, affecting a computer, the old schmitt boxes from decades ago that were developed. And that is somewhat controllable, but that may not be the same thing seen in the poltergeist cases. And again, the the more we learn about this, the stranger it gets. I mean I you know, when I first entered the field, I thought, well, this stuff will probably be proven with the it's not what the word implies. It's a it's a noisy spirit. But fortunately that didn't play out, you know, where the evidence doesn't support that conclusion. But again it it um again, if there is a ubiquitous form of energy that exists that we as human beings can access and put to work, albeit unconsciously, it it it sort of behooves us to find out what's going on, how it's going on and why. And I think that if this energy could take us to the stars, literally. This could be the answer that and everything we know that produces heat produces l produces energy, produces a great deal of heat. Yeah. Geothermal, hydroelectric, uh nuclear, it's all heat. Imagine generating power without heat.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Do you think uh Dr. Taft that um as Leslie I think was hinting at, can people deliberately do this?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Um the only thing that I've ever read about uh where it's been controlled, somewhat controlled, or as you uh it's it's it's chosen to act on, the um it it's very that's a minute, that's the m microscopic type. To my knowledge, there's never been a case where a person was able to basically develop the macroscopic type that make objects fly around. It could be that different parts of the brain are responsible and the mechanisms are somewhat different, which I think may be true. But see, here's the thing. We have tools and technology now that we haven't had before. I think if you had people who were having recurrent episodes of poltergeist activity, you put them and had some functional MRIs on them, some um uh PET scans and spec scans, um, you might discover something that's unique about their brain that isn't the same as the average person. And these people are f rare f far far and few between. It's not like everyone's walking around with the ability to do it. It's sort of like, okay, I've raced cars on tracks, road race cars, and y everyone can drive, but few people can race because the hand-eye foot coordination's not there, the stamina is not there, uh all that, the the the ability to f use your body in such a way. Or let's say you're you're a hockey player or you're a football player, not everyone could play games, but they couldn't be a professional athlete. It could be this is the same thing, but in another let me show it sorry, another thing at you that's similar but not identical. Uh like I said, the the in the research to me that was most significant when the lab was up and running at UCLA was the field work where you investigate the hauntings and poltergeists and things like that. But the th the the the more quiet phenomena we investigated, the what we call now remote viewing, I called the telepathy precognition lower voice. We had a a side development group at UCLA. We ran it for what, what, eleven years, something like that, and it worked really well to the point where w you could take most people and you could enhance some inheritability they had to the point where it was demonstrable. And it became so reliable and consistent that we ourselves were made, but it also told us something about the nature of this phenomena that really made us question the reality we live in. Um what it comes down to is this there's three or four different types of mental phenomena people have spoken of for more than a century, you know, actually since uh uh the the dawn of society for psychical research in eighteen eighty-two in the UK. Um there's telepathy, which means mind-to-mind communication. There's clairvoyance, the ability to perceive events at a distance without another mind intervening, supposedly, and then you have precognition, the ability to see the future in it free of logic and inference and deduction. And i it's amazing that when we were writing this group, we assumed it was telepathy, but then we discovered that it's a far more than that. Let me give you some examples. Um there was um the best example that would be okay. But it was a a girl that came to to our group was t a wo a woman with another volunteer in the lab, and she uh she didn't know mu too much of what we were doing. She was around my age, kind of wild and crazy. This is the hippie era, this is the you know, the mid-70s. So we didn't know anything about her. And uh we told her what to do. Think of someone you know real, real well, and then we're gonna, you know, we're gonna rattle off verbal impressions. We we record, you then we take the tape, we play, you play it back, and you comment about what's accurate, what's not. You know, immediate feedback as to what was going on. So we start describing the man, the person, uh a big home with large glass walls, beautiful foliage around the house, just gorgeous. And then we see a giant kitchen lined with empty jars of bacon bits. What? And then we describe some other things and uh and then we saw uh him this man being very viciously beaten and mugged. So the session ends, the girl takes the recorder control the record audio audio recorder, and she now this is all done in a sensory-deprived environment. You can't see or hear anything. You're it's like you all you have is your own mind. So she plays the the recording back and uh she said, Yeah, we came up with a fin of strange phonetic version of his name. It was close to it, but not act a hundred percent accurate. The description of the house was very accurate. Um It was really amazing where um uh literally we got to the empty j uh the kitchen lined with empty jars of bacovits. Yep. That's what there was there. And okay, it could have been coincidence. The foliage, the large glass walls, yeah, it could have been coincidence. Then we get to the part of it being mugged, and she goes, He's never been mugged. She was dating this guy with it. She knows him pretty well. No, he's never been beaten up. Oh, okay. So the session ends. A couple days later, I'm in the lab. I'm in up in the lab, and this girl calls in and she says, Remember the session the other day? Yeah, yeah. Remember what you guys said? Yeah, pretty much, so to a point. Well, she said that the time, the night you were doing this, the night we were doing this, he was up in San Francisco and he was being viciously beaten and mugged at that time.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Whoa, but I didn't know that. Oh my.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So, you know, it's it's well, it's it's amazing. It's and she said, Well, that would imply that it's that there's it's just it's information that you can access. So, and this is where it gets really strange. And so that suggests more precognition, no, but clairvoyance. We were linking to him, he knew what was going on, we didn't know, and she didn't know. Let's go one step further. We got to the point where we were bored and tired with what we were doing. Uh, you know, we've been there, done that sort of thing. So we tried to do our first precognitive session, which was kind of unusual because we were it was the last session of that evening, and we said, try to describe the randomly chosen target of next week. And okay. So we start describing a tall man, dirt dark, medium brown, darker brown hair, blue eyes, very intense, volatile, um, the whole bit. And uh we come up with just some names and eventually we um we saw we saw him this man beating her, relentlessly beating her, and we saw him killing her. So the the lights come on, we she takes the control. Yeah, the description of him was accurate, and he had a very odd voice. Turns out the man was um oh I'm blanking out of the name as we're speaking, um, Albert Salmy, the actor. And he was in every Twilight Zones. I know who he is volatile as hell. Yeah, he always played a heavy for a year.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, yeah, it's my age. It would be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, yeah, he he was volatile, he beat her a lot, and and I say, Well, you might want to think about divorcing him. No, no, no, he wouldn't kill me. Some years later, to the day, he kills her and then kills himself.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

And so, no, the question is, um, yeah, it was um you know, what's the source of the information? She knew a lot of it, but she didn't know all of it. But the one that really knocked it out of the park was that this is one of many sessions. We I think I mech I mixed up the stories. We did the that the last session wasn't precognition. The last session was a normal one, but we had Had to describe a day given to us a week ahead. Then we did it again. And we describe a tall woman, beautiful, blue-eyed, blonde, professionally dressed like a model, and we saw a giant house in the Hollywood Hills, um, three stories, a baby grand piano, and a man dressed in black, uh, black cape, black mask, black um, black pants, black shirt, black gloves, black hat, uh black cape, and an imposing sword. And we thought we were going crazy. So the next week, new people are brought into third parties that had not been there the last session, and everyone is given a sealed envelope with a number in it, a piece of paper. We then roll dice, tell everyone, open your packet, and whose ever number matches the dice roll will be the subject, the target. Okay, this woman goes, Oh, it's me. So we told her to take the tape, and if anything's accurate, stop it, give us feedback. So the tape's running, we describe her perfectly. Her face, her hair, her figure, her height, or the clothing she was wearing, the color. And in the room there were something like twenty-four chairs, and each chair had a number under it. That wasn't our doing, that was they would get other things in that room as well. And um she sat in the one chair we named a week earlier. That could have been coincidence. The house, the three-story home, yeah, baby grand piano, yeah, could have been coincidence. We come to the thing with a man playing uh a tall man all in black with the sword, and the girl stops and she looks at me and she goes, How do you know who I am? I go, What are you talking about? How do you know who I am? I go, What are you talking about? She goes, I'm Tony Williams. And I went, and don't you know who I am? No. My father's Guy Williams, he played Zorro for Disney. What? Wait, she goes, When did you drink this tape? A week ago. I didn't know I was coming here until about two hours ago, but you said this a week ago. So what does that imply? Well, something about the future is already there. And it really unnerved her. It unnerved some of our regular members of our site training group. Um, it makes us wonder is how much of the future, I mean, how much control do we have? How could we describe an event that had not happened for a week? Was going to for a we and describe the woman, describe her clothes, describe the house, and describe Zorro without using the name Zorro. Astronomical probability, if it we're guessing.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So what does it mean? I do think there is a lot of communication, spirit communication, it's carried out in symbols. Right? Some people are better at it than others. Or more accurate, or are able to roll in on the timeline that's activated.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Correct. But see, but what it but what it boils down to in terms of parapsychology is the information occurs in in the present from another mind, we call that telepathy. Again, if it occurs for the future, it's precognition. For the past, it's retrocognition. And if it depends on where the information appears to come from, will determine the the description and causation of the perception. And here's the thing that there when it comes to time, with space and time and this phenomena, it's like a giant hologram. In normal photography, if you have a eight by ten photograph of somebody, you if you cut it in half or quarters or eighths or sixteenths, you get smaller and smaller pieces of the whole. The hologram, if you cut it up, each piece will recreate the whole, but it's of lower resolution. The only model of the parent that deals with this terms of the parental, the only model is basically a holonomic one, which suggests that the past information still exists and the futures information already exists. Not the events, the information related to the events. What we're accessing is information. And it it just it gets you know, we we we were so successful on that first voyage in terms of their pre-cogist, we got bored with the real time stuff. Um we tried it again weeks later. And we go, Well, how weird will this be? So we're just all we doing. We kept seeing fire, fire, fire, fire. We're losing our minds. Why are we all seeing fire? Okay, I'm up in the lab the next day and I see fire engine coming to the neuropsychiatric institute where our lab was located, and I go down and the co the room, the conference room, it was a controlled environment. Um that we used. Apparently there was an outlet uh socket behind one of the drapes. It shorted, it sparked, and it caught the drapes on fire. So that room was on fire hours l after we made the the we described the event. No wonder why it was kept seeing fire, it was imminent. And this this is No, there's a great it was a 1960. Um the the original movie The Time Machine where George, his lead character, says, Can man control his destiny? Can he change the shape of things to come? And uh you know, uh let me other quick one quick story. Nineteen seventy, I met a girl, well, it that's my last year of college before I went to graduate school, and named Sharon, beautiful blue-eyed blonde. We started dating, everything was great. She lived in San Fernando Valley, I lived in West LA, and uh then the dreams began, and the dreams are always the same. I'm in the backseat of a car, I saw Sharon very clearly in the passenger seat. I couldn't see the driver, I just saw that he had dark hair, which doesn't mean a lot, and I couldn't see the dashboard of the car. The car turns into cul-de-sac going to Sharon's home in the San Fernando Valley, and a much larger car comes flying at us and hits us, and there's explosion, there's glas glass, there's fire, it's horrible. And I go, This isn't good. So I kept having a dream, and I said, Well, I better tell Sharon about this. So I told her about it, and I said, I I think it's good that we stopped dating. I don't think it's a good she goes, What kind of crap are you throwing at me? I go, Look, I'm our if we're it's not worth our relationship if we're dead. She goes, You're lot you're making this up because you want to drive all the way out here. Hey, I had a great car, gas is 25 cents a gallon. Who cares? You know, I mean, I had a Z28 Camero was like driving a road racing car. Oh, yeah. There was her little traffic. I enjoyed going there. It was fun. And I said, I'm not gonna risk our lives, it's not worth it. So we stopped dating. Uh uh because she wanted to. And I I I really didn't blame her because I might have done the same thing if she threw it at me. I think I would have. And um, so we stopped. So sometime later, I don't know, we months later, she started dating some other guy. And they're going to her house into the c into the cul-de-sac where she lived, and wham, another car hits the car. She's in the d her boyfriend, the driver, was killed instantly. She was badly injured, and she's had to deal with you know, a doctor's thing for care for a long time. Now, did I prevent the ac my dying? Or did I my ego put me in the driver's seat? Uh I'll never know. Well the the only I mean, one of the things I thought of was inviting her to come stay with me in Los Angeles rather than staying in the San Fernando Valley, which would have prevented it. But she would have went, What, you want me to what? You know, and then her mother said to me, you know, they had a big house. Why don't you come just sit live with us? I go, live with you. Where am I gonna sleep? Oh, sharing room. I'm going, what? So anyway, though, it just didn't happen. And this was a long time ago. This is 40 years ago. So i did I ch did I change the future? Um one last dream that's notable. Um on a case I was working on in 1977 in LA. I went out well, I talked to the lady on the phone about what's going on, strange noises, things moving around on their own, uh ports, things like that. So go out there it was Valentine's Day, and uh we go out there, my colleague and I walked in and for the first time in my life I was still I was so overwhelmed by a woman's physical beauty that I couldn't react. I was like, what? I couldn't um I couldn't imagine this girl was so beautiful that I it was like a a young Liz Taylor and Joan Collins fused into one body. Just so we started talking and the whole bit. We started dating and everything was great. I mean it was a perfect relationship. She lived uh she had that time she moved into her mother's uh condo in the Hollywood Hills. She was my age, at least she said she was. Everything was great, but then came the dreams. And the dreams were always the same. All I knew was that it was July twenty second and the relationship ended. I didn't know why. And I didn't want to tell her because if I told her she might misinterpret it as the fact that I wanted out of the relationship, which I did not want. So the weeks go by, our relationship's perfect every way. I mean, she participated in off-site training groups, she went out in some cases with us, and uh it was perfect. Uh it was kind of like a dream come true for both of us. So the dreams continued. So on July twenty-second, we wake up together, I wake up and she's under the covers, and she's won't come out, and she's crying. Why didn't you help me? I said, with what? When the room let out. I go, and when the what? When the room let out. What do you mean when the room let up? When the room let out? I go, What room? She goes, This room's our bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

She said something paralyzed her. She felt herself being lifted off the bed. She felt herself moving laterally or horizontally. She found herself in raw metal room on a pedestal like table metal, either brush stainless or aluminum or whatever. And it was cold. She was strained at her neck, her abdomen, her wrists, and her ankles very tightly. And there's little guy eyes around her. We call like greys, we call them now, big heads, big black eyes, no nose, no ears, you know, split for a mouth. They were cutting. Their skin was very reptilian-like. And uh I so she's they're cutting her, she's telling me, and they're putting things in her body and they're hurting her. And I so I said to her, she's still under the covers, mind you. I said to her, um, do you know anything about UFO abduction? She goes, What would UFO what? She had no interest in UFO. I thought it was a lot of garbage. Um, because we had discussed it once and she said, you know, oh Bob, I'm not interested. Okay. So she f I finally coaxed her out from under the covers, and she's got bruises around her neck, around her abdomen, around her waist around her ankles, and around her wrists. As if she was held too tightly too long by something, the restraint. She's bleeding from her nose, bleeding from her ear, bleeding from her rectum, bleeding from her uterus, but she wasn't menstruating. And she had little chunks of skin taken out of her back like by a melon baller. And uh she had a complete breakdown. And uh now it was interesting. One of the neighbors who didn't know anything about this, it was a day later, said, Um, Did you see that thing over here the other night? And what? There was this thing glowing, it was huge, it was hovering over this area, and our power went out, which it did. The power went out for a couple hours. I said, No, we were inside. So, you know, can I prove it happened? Can I prove okay? Yes, what I described happened. Was it an abduction? Uh I don't know. Now, you know, and then at one point she said, Why didn't they take you? And I said, I wouldn't take me. And uh, as a joke, I would have said to her, I would drive them crazy. I want to know two things. I want to know what your power source is, I want to know how you what the propulsion system is, what's your avionics, blah, blah, you know, power conversion, how do you propel yourself without using aerodynamics to do so, blah, blah, blah. And so I didn't help her. So she sort of came apart at the seams. Um, psychiatrists in those days just assumed you were psychotic if you'd made such claims.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

As did psychologists. And so had that not occurred, whatever it was, we would have been married in less than a year. But it did occur. We I can't change the past. So uh it's uh it seems that whatever UFOs are, I am and I only suggest the majority are not our UFOs, they're some other another technology far born rather than ours. They give they use forces that we may call paranormal the way we use electromagnetism.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Um what's interesting, in the long history of ufology since World War II, maybe even before that, in the early late 30s, early 40s, there has never been an instance of a UFO creating a s producing a sonic boom, yet they've been tracked in at hypersonic speeds for a long time. But so that means they're not flying aerodynamically. Well, we don't know how to not fly aerodynamically, they're using another method of propulsion. Um it's and I have a strange feeling that down deep somewhere that there's a faction of our government and probably others that know a lot more than we'll ever know. And they're not going to release the data. And to be honest with you, from what I've seen, how people react to things they don't like and they don't understand, it may be better that this information is not disclosed, because you know, some people, like maybe myself or you guys, might take this in and go, wow, that's amazing, it's fascinating. Other people might react in a very negative way. And if if we're already in a crazy world where people commit terrible crimes against each other for no reason, and they go to war because they have a different rel theological you know beliefs, and we want to add another level of insanity to that. You don't tell a war-weary world, hey, look, you know, we were we weren't made in God's image, some other race of beings created us for a purpose we don't yet understand. Well then, okay, well, if someone else created it, then who was God to them? Who was God to them? And um in in our culture, um, you know, we we live in a sense without domestic tranquility, Western civilizations cannot exist. And one if we disclose such things to the population. Oh yeah, you've had contact with these different beings, and we've trade they've we've let them abduct people, and we they've given his toys to play with, which we can't really control that well, it wouldn't go over real well. It would be one of the most uh socially disruptive bits of information ever given to the human race. And uh as we approach the holidays, Christmas and Easter, you start talking about the fact that what we think about religion is about God is wrong, it wouldn't go over real well. So, you know, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well it it it is a problem, but you know, that being said, I I think all we have to do is just look at what's going on in popular media, you know, if they were five seconds, you know, well, five steps, I think we have the same stuff. I don't know. I think things are what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_03 40:26

I I think we are in a in a different, hugely enlightened era. And what Dr. Tuff was saying before, which as you know was the interest remote doing, um it sounds to me like Dr. Tuff, you're accessing the signal line, as they call it. And I don't know if you you were following Ingle Swan's uh formula or David Morehouse's or someone else, but um I would agree that we all now have access to all information in space-time. We just need to enable it within ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

I think you know what's interesting, what what's interesting about this in particular is that um the concept called implicate order, which in parts which in parts suggests that um well that there's a we're able to access information remotely from ourselves, but it goes beyond that. There's evidence now that long-term memories do not reside in our brain.

unknown 41:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

The theory is they reside in an external power field. That means if we're the way we access our information on a day-to-day moment-to-moment basis, from the day we're born to the day we die, if it's a remote process for accessing information in order to function, well, it means that the paranormal is not paranormal. This is the way we're designed to function. And it's a question of coming to accept this, and again, it's it challenges the worldview, the our perspective on reality. And people are reluctant to change because they don't understand it. And again, how what's the how many degrees of freedom do we have? Is it all a bunch of random chaos? We just stumble through reality, you know, and I I just I just have this as my book discussed on my website, BarryTaf.net.net, discusses. I have a strong feeling that in the in the distant future, when all this is understood, we come to grips with it, we're not gonna like what it tells us because it's gonna tell us of a reality that we're totally unfamiliar with. And it's like um it'd be like taking a car back 10,000 years ago in time. People would freak out. Well, what why is it making all the noise? Why is it moving? It's not an animal, it's really hard. It's it's very complicated. And the bottom line with all of this, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt you. The uh would you agree then, the non-locality of consciousness, non-local consciousness?

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah, I mean, the idea would be that everything is everywhere. That the in all space, there's the information of all time in all space. So whether you're in your car or you're sleeping in your bed or watching TV at home, or you're on a plane at 40,000 feet, again, information about space-time is equally distributed. The same way, the only theory or model of the of the brain, which is Carl Freebrum, Dr. Carl Freebrum was the first to discuss hologram neuro holography. The only theory of the brain and consciousness that seems to play out in a valid way regarding the paranormal is that information is equally distributed through space-time, just like it is in a hologram. So, again, if you want to see something from 5,000 years ago, you want to see something from 5,000 years in the future, theoretically you Could do it. We can prove in some part the thing of the past because we can objectively verify that. But the future is more difficult because unless we ourselves can't verify it objectively, it doesn't mean it's true. So, you know, there are problems with that. Um the day that JFK was inaugurated, I told my parents he would die in office on Thanksgiving of '63, and they went, What? I said, Well, it's not he's gonna die of illness. I said, No, I think it's gonna be a lot worse than that. And they went, Uh oh, okay, you're crazy. And then you're a couple years later, when it happened, they went, they didn't talk to me for weeks. And so, um it it's people have an odd response to some elements of the paranormal and uh like I said in my w there's an article on my website called A Different Kind of Psychic Being a Medical Intuitive. And I've been a medical intuitive since I was a kid. And it's interesting. It's like, okay, why not my friends and family? Why don't they have these experiences? And it's I'm telling you, it's cost me a lot of friends over the years where it's fun and games and then when it gets real serious, they back away 'cause they're frightened of you. Or they think you're crazy. And um, you know, it's um an example. I met a girl online six years ago. Never met her in person. Very, very attractive girl. She looks very much like a young John Collins. Another of my stereotypes. So I met we we talked and I am looking at her pictures online and she's so beautiful. I said, Look, I have to be honest with you, I'm looking at your pictures and you don't look healthy, you look sickly. She goes, What? How do you know I'm I said, What do you admit it? She was born a blue baby and she's been sick of one thing or another her entire life. And um, how can you tell from looking at a picture? I don't know, I'm looking at your picture and I'm feeling you feel sick. So the last time I actually spoke to her was about a year ago. And uh we had we covered a lot of things of information. But one of the things I was emphatic about, I said, Look, you gotta go to see um mammograms done. Why just do it? You gotta go see an oncologist. Just do it. And she didn't. And then just was it last l yeah, earlier this week? Yeah, she found lumps in her breast, and she had to go to see an oncologist. They found something, whatever they haven't done an autopsy a biopsy yet, but they probably will. And I said, remember I talked to you about this like, you know, like last year? She goes, No. And then 1973, I was dating a girl I met in the lab. Uh looks like a young short Shirley McLean. We get along real well. And then we were talking once, or on our couch talking, and um No, no, we were eating, that's right, eating. And she's sitting across from me, and I said, You gotta I said, I pointed to her to her left breast area, you got a tumor there. She goes, What? Huh? You got a what? A tumor. How can you see it? Well, it's it's it's inside you, and you better go check it out. What? Huh? I said, Look, don't worry, it's benign. How do you know it's benign? I said, There's no calcium around. What are you talking about? Okay. So she finished her degree at UCLA, she got a job very quickly. She had to have a medical checkup for insurance purposes. They found uh lump. They found a tumor. They get a biopsy, it was benign, they took it anyway. She goes, I can't be around you. Why? She goes, I I feel like a piece of glass around you, and I'd have no privacy. But it helps you. She goes, I don't want that kind of help. And you know, um but the thing that really ended it was we went to see the exorcist, the opening night.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

That's a good romance film. That's a d that's a deep night collection.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Well no, well no, she wanted to see it as much as I did. Okay. She didn't know that much about it.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

The film starts and it's during the first act, we see a young Linda Blair is being bounced around on the bed. And I turned it, I suddenly I heard I I turned to Carol and I said, the girl, my girlfriend, I said, I've seen a bed do that in a house in Hollywood. And she, what? And so in the front of the theater, a voice comes out, hey Barry, is that you? And Carol didn't sleep. I said, first of all, Carol, it's a movie. It's based not on a novel, not based on a don't worry about, but but she got trouble sleeping, and and you know, uh, and and so, but it you see, it's it's sort of like I live in a different reality than most people. My reality is a paranormal one. Most people, you know, they have they get a lot. You grow up, you go to school, get an education, you get a job, you get married, you have kids, and you die. That's reality. Well, not in my world. No, no. I grew up and went to school, never got a normal job, never got married, never had any children. But I had a lot of time to think about things and do work, research, rather than be consumed with normality.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

And that was your and that was your past. And I believe that we have a we have a kind of a selection process and we have a lot of responsibility for like the major points that that happen in their lives. But one thing I would just a little quick thing I'd say about your your medical intuitive. From a metaphysical standpoint, I would say that you had spent a lot of lifetime as a doctor and practitioner, probably back even far uh in the in the stance of time. And I think that there are actually a lot of doctors or healers that are medical intuitives, but they don't express it that way. But but you definitely you definitely have that gift, and I think it comes from just someone who has done that and who has used those tools that way. And that happened in other sophisticated cultures in our deep past.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah, I mean, um another incident, I it's see it's it's wh sometimes I see what's wrong with someone, I can look in them, and other times I could just be sitting next to a stranger, and I'm feeling sick, and I ask them, and they say, How did you know? Um, I was in a movie theater about 10 years ago, 12 years ago, Century City, near where I lived. And I sit down next to some guy, my friend's to my left, this guy's to my right, stranger to my right, and suddenly my kidneys were killing me. And I said, Boy, what did my kidneys suddenly hurt? And the guy on my right says, That's odd, I've been having a problem with my kidneys all week. Okay, so I moved to another seat. Yeah. When the dark night came out. Yeah, when the dark night came out.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah. When when the dark night came out, went to see it in the theater with an old friend. We drove separately. So the movie starts. I hadn't seen this girl. I knew her from UCLA a long time ago. And uh suddenly my bladder starts spasming, burning. I go, oh, what's what is oh my god. She then got a call from her daughter. She had to leave. So it was nothing I could help her with. So she left. And I stayed. I watched the movie. The minute she left, I was fine. I found out the next day that she was suffering from a really bad bladder infection.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

I'm sorry you had to sick yourself.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Sorry you had to feel that, Barry. I was so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

But I mean, it but I mean, it's I an old girlfriend showed up. This is 1999, out of the blue, hadn't seen her in a long time. So it was warm outside, she was wearing a halter top, and I was talking to her, and I said, What's over your chest? She goes, What? I said, It it looks like a like an octopus or a squid. What are you talking about? I said, Oh, it's not on you, it's in you. You better go see an oncologist. Well, you've got your breasts are riddled with tumors. Yep. They were. She had to have a bilateral uh uh uh double ansectomy. So I didn't know it was there. Um again, it's this is as normal for me as it is to breathe. But the one of the last doctors I had in LA uh before I left, so he's taking my pulse and blood pressure or whatever. He gets near me, and the first thing I said, I said, You drive a black Lexus SC430. How did you know that? Well, you're standing right next to it. And then he I said, You've got lumbar problems, right? Some upper respiratory distress. How could you know that? And he just ran out of the room and told another doctor to come in and finish the examination.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

Um I hate to tell you that guy here, Dr. Taff. We've got to wrap it. Uh five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Well, I just uh I had a question, just one little question for you, Dr. Taff. Again, just going back to uh the nature of poltergeist activity, which is something that fascinates me particularly since you were that you were really the first one to suggest that it was a non-localized energy field of some sort and being having all of these kinds of different technologies in place for the phenomena to occur. Did you find that adolescents or teens or premenstrual girls is there a higher incidence of this kind of I don't know if I could call it psychokinetic, uh, but what the aspect of poltergeist activity that is generated by a human physical body, if in fact that's the way it works.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

It's been known for a long time from the early onset of this research that the pri the the most common recipients or experiencers of this type of phenomena were uh adolescent child pubescent adolescent children going through these changes because hormonal shifts in their body. But see, that was a very crude generic description. What it also is people who have very bad ability to deal with stress. So there's many ways to produce the the event. It's like there's many things that could produce heat. Light will produce heat, sound can produce heat, fire could produce heat, friction can produce heat, chemicals can produce heat, um, but they all the heat is end result, but all these different methods produce heat. The same thing here, but it seems the commonality is the the uh I guess susceptibility to uh electromagnetic field. And also and also the like I said, the the the the very likely probabil high probability of field being seizure prone or epileptic. You can be so subtle if you have focal seizure, certain parts of your body. Yeah. And if we had more time, I could feel you when is when I moved out of LA and came out here in no man's land. Yeah. Incredible things going on at both houses I've been in.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Well, we would love to. I mean, if you could come back and see us in June in a couple months, we would adore that Barry and we can talk some more about that phenomena. And I'd also like to discuss your feelings about telepathic, uh human-incited telepathic communication with EPs, all uh the kinds of things that Stephen Greer are are uh exploring right now. So we'll get to that next time.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

I uh I I would that's one thing I won't discuss. I didn't do with Stephen Greer out of one.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Oh, okay. Well it's good that I know that now. Okay, we're not alone, by the way. Um anyway, uh Dr. Berry Calf, we just want to thank you. It is so good to hear from you and to know you're doing well and you're and you're safe and you're hanging in there, and uh we look forward to our next opportunity to chat and uh take things take things right out again.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Okay, sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Thank you so much. We're gonna we're gonna give it a lot of my pleasure. And uh great questions.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Talking to you soon. Okay, bye-bye now.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Thank you, thank you. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Bye.

unknown 56:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

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SPEAKER_00 56:44

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