Flying the Big Iron: A Master Pilot's History Winged Victory Ep 29

Rob and Scott sit down with with renowned pilot Ian Wayman and talk about full circle moments of starting his career in firefighting planes, to flying with the airlines, flying various Warbirds and smaller planes, to returning back to the firefighting service and everything in between.  Ian has a lifetime of experience and the stories to go with it!

#warbirds #museum #flying  #ww2 #airplane #f7f #tigercat #pby #firefighter    #podcast  #planes  #history #aviation  #newbeginnings #passion #drive     #nationalmuseumofwwiiaviation #airline pilot


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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello everyone and welcome to Winged Victory with Rob and Scott, a podcast by the National Museum of World War II Aviation here in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Welcome to another episode. I'm Scott Clares, and I'm here once again with my partner of crime, Rob Gale. Truly glad to be here. And today we got a great guest. We're really excited to have him here. He's been a part of this museum for many, many years, and he's been involved in the aviation industry for basically his entire life, as far as I know. We're about to find out. We are about to find out. Mr. Ian Wayman.

SPEAKER_06 0:37

Say hi to the kids. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_05 0:40

Thank you. Guys? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:42

I have been trying to pin you down for this podcast since I started this podcast. Yeah. Finally run you to ground.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah, we're really excited to have you here for sure. Yeah. So um I'm just gonna start right off. You were sitting right in front of this beautiful airplane here, 374 Tiger Cat, and I think you got a pretty good history of this airplane. Mild acquaintance. Yeah, from a very young age.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

Yeah, when I was a little kid, six, seven, eight years old, my dad was a private pilot in Santa Rosa, California. Um and we'd go out, he'd like the airplanes, and we'd go out to the airport, walk around Ciscu Aviation or Siskiyu Flying Service. And this airplane in the background was one of the airplanes I actually walked around. It was a firebomber. And yeah, I walked around it as a kid, never imagining that someday I'd be flying the dang thing. Isn't that amazing? Yes, it is. I'm full circle. Really blessed.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

That at that point that'd be a full circle moment for sure. So I mean, is that something that when you're that young, is that seeing these airplanes? Is that kind of when your fires got stoked?

SPEAKER_05 1:50

Um, I I've loved airplanes my whole life, but being a spoiled kid around airplanes, I was two years old, sat on my mom's lap in a Cessna 182 while my dad flew the family to the East Coast. They're from upstate New York originally. And so I've been in the airplanes all the time, and just doesn't everybody have an airplane? You know, so I was pretty spoiled as far as that goes. Um, and I was actually out of high school. I got my private, uh, soloed uh my dad's Cessna 140 when I was in high school and just played with it. It was you know, I just put gas and oil in and flew it anytime, anywhere I wanted. And um, it wasn't until shortly after high school I actually got my private and I went away to college, and that's when I realized I loved aviation because I'd be a I went to Chico, and every time I saw an airplane fly over, I was like, that's where I want to be. Yeah so I I I was hanging out at a crop duster strip in the Chico area, and it was like, oh yeah, well, you can sweep the floors and do that for a few years, and then maybe three or four years from now we'll let you fly the airplane out to the job side, or I'm like, no, I want to fly now. So I actually quit college, went back, got my commercial, started towing gliders in Calistoga, and working on a gas truck there like I did in high school. I I got the job again and and flying corporate stuff around with all these great guys that hey, I got a trip to Albuquerque, you want to go with me? I'm like, yeah, sure. So I get free multi-engine time. So I did all backwards, got my commercial, started flying ty uh gliders, like I said, and then uh got my multi-engine, and then I added my instrument on later, and then you know, all that stuff. Yeah, I just went through the progression. Never, yeah, never did a CFI because I always had job opportunities, and so went from towing gliders to then flying DC fours for Aero Union.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Yeah, so that was when you started your air tanker day.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Yep, yep, and I love flying the DC four, it's a fantastic airplane. I love that kind of flying, low level, right above the treetops. It's really fun and exciting. But the entire fire season long, from May 1st to November 30th, I had one day off a week that entire time, and it drove me nuts. Yeah. Working on a gas truck at the airport, you'd see all these guys hanging out working on their PT-22s or their their beach eighteens or their uh P-51s or Sea Furies, you know, and they're at the airport more than I'm at the airport, and then they're full, you know, I'm full-time employees. They have jobs. Yeah, and I'm like, what do you do for a living? Oh, I'm an airline pilot. It's like when I was fighting force fires, that that airline pilot job looked pretty nice. So I ended up going to the airlines and did my career at the airlines. So how long were you at the firefighting? Um three summers, but it really was it was two summers, and then I got a job flying commuters, and I happened to have seven days off, and a friend of mine and I were gonna go to the Smithsonian, uh, you know, jump seat out because there's an airline pilot, you can jump seat for free. And Aero Union happened to call me and said, Hey Ian, we need a co-pilot for a little while. Can you hit so in the '89 fire season, I flew for a week for Aero Union Corporation. So it was two summers and then a week of the in the third. That was a nice thing just to help help. It was awesome. Yeah, yeah. Yep, and now I'm getting back in the fire fight.

SPEAKER_06 5:22

So yeah, because you yeah, you just just completed uh all your calls up in uh Montana.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Yep, in Missoula with uh Neptune Aviation. Um fantastic company. They really treat you well, and I'm I'm really looking forward to flying for Neptune.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

So another full circle moment essentially.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Uh BAE 140s, yeah, like this. Yeah, getting back into this whole thing. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, the the flying is gonna be. I retired early from the airline I worked for. Yeah, plan.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Yeah, that that we will not speak of. Yes, right. I just say good plan. Yeah. Yeah. So then how did you get into the the war bird sector of things? How did you start flying some of that, getting involved?

SPEAKER_05 6:08

Just dropped on my head as a child and always loved them. Um you know, working on the gas truck, uh, you know, Art Vance had his Mustang, uh, Bob Clopton had a Harvard, you know, and we'd help him work on it and stuff, and and I had a lot a lot of tailwheel time, you know, Cessna 140 and Cessna 195 time, a radial engine and tailwheel. And I was helping Bob with this Harvard, and he's like, hmm, you want to fly it? Sure. So I started flying that all over and and just really loved the warbirds and and was blessed enough. And that's one thing I really liked about Aero Union is flying a DC4. Is you know, it was built the airplane I flew was built in May of 1944. It was just a fantastic, fun radial engine. It was it was awesome.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

So yeah, they they were workhorses of ATC and uh the Berlin Airlift and all that.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

The airplane I flew actually flew in the Berlin Airlift. Yeah. So really yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Wow, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 7:12

Yeah, that's uh that was some flying. Um yes. They were they were, I think the separation was two minutes um into Tempelhof.

SPEAKER_05 7:25

That's what really I think ATC really got their calling there and coordinating that.

SPEAKER_06 7:32

Yep. Yep. Well, but let's not ignore our uh beautiful girl here. Um so not only did you walk around her as a as a kid, but you got to fly this airplane.

SPEAKER_05 7:46

Yes, and when we had Tiger Cat over at your dad's shop, uh the P-47 was over there, and the Docents would come over and they'd say, Well, if you wanted to pick up the girls, you flew a P-51 Mustang, and and if you wanted to survive your mission, you f flew a P-47. So I'd walk over to the Dents, I'm like, Shh, she's gonna hear you.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

She is way sexier than a P-51. Don't say that so loud. If you wanted to do both, you flew this.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

You know, exactly. Yeah, no, the Tiger Cat is a fantastic, beautiful airplane. It really is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

And I I will admit, I I've used that Mustang Thunderbolt line, but never in front of our friend here. Yeah, she's way sexier than a P51. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Yeah. So what does it feel like the first time you strap this thing on? I mean, you get to sit in this thing, you know, I mean, you got the history of it. You're not just jumping into another war bird. You know, this is the plane that you saw as a little kid. It I mean, it's obviously something that's been ingrained in your head for a long time. So, what's that feel like when you're firing it up and you're taxing it out? Did did I die and go to heaven?

SPEAKER_05 8:56

Yeah, it was absolutely awesome. Absolutely awesome. Uh I can't even describe it. Yeah, you're nervous because it's a new airplane and you want to treat it well and take good care of it and and everything. But yeah, I know you're real busy going through the checklist and you know, just making sure that you're dotting your I's and crossing your T's and because this airplane will it'll start flying easily at 95 knots, but your VMC is 120. So you take off and you let it accelerate and then you climb out about 140.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

You know, and that's and at that point you could just pull the runner, pull the nose of the sky and never stop. Yes. It's an amazing airplane that way. Yeah. I mean, it was built to climb.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it throws you back in a seat, and of course, with the jets, especially if you're lightly loaded, and and there was a flight attendant used to like the takeoffs where I'd text out on the runner and I'd bring the power up and hold the brakes, and then she always liked that. So we always did that for her, but that's what it's like flying a target.

SPEAKER_06 9:56

It's just it's a carrier airplane, or at least nominally. Yes. Um, and so yeah, I believe 90 knots because you're gonna have 30 or so across the deck, and yeah, there you are.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

And it's it's it's 4200 horsepower in your hand. It's it's pretty fun. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

You need to get out of those two. I've been in it once. I've been in 375 once, and it was the craziest ride that I've ever been in for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yep. So I mean, I would consider you like a pilot's pilot. Like you've been flying, you know, you do all the flying. You do the the bush pilot stuff, you go out. I mean, you really like to fly on airplanes. Obviously. I mean, you have an obvious, obvious love for it. So how did you I don't know, use that or or suppress the the pilot side of you to go fly airlines for so long where basically, I mean, you got you're very regimented, you got to fly it a certain way at a certain time and beyond schedule. So how did you uh do that and stay sane?

SPEAKER_05 11:07

I I would play with the airline a little bit. Um I'd have fun. Yeah. I'd typically, even in the Airbus, I'd I'd hand fly it to uh RVSM uh airspace, you know, to 28,000 feet, and then you you have to have it on the autopilot. Okay. But I'd hand fly it. In the Airbus, you're not really hand flying, you're asking permission from the computer to do what you want to do. But yeah, and the in the you know when I flew the 737, the autopilots were way more primitive than the Airbus. And so we hand flew, that was previous to RVSM Airspace where you have to have it on autopilot above 28 or 29. Um I flew the 7-3 all the way to altitude, trim it up, and then turn the autopilot on. Um I just like flying. Yeah, and you know, you'd you'd be on an RNAV course or whatever departure, and you're going through little puffy cumulus clouds, and so many of the guys that they just leave it on autopilot, and this cloud is you know 150 yards wide, and you boom. It's like, well, if you just slid over this way a little bit, you'd go right around it, it'd be nice and smooth.

SPEAKER_06 12:11

I've I've flown behind some of those guys.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

And so I'd I'd I'd have fun at out of Atlanta, you get these little cues popping, and I just you know, like a Reno Air race, just you know, pile on. I go around it. Yeah. So that would have felt everything like that. You got it, yeah, you got it. Because otherwise, it's it's pretty boring.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah, I mean you're a bus driver at some point instead of out doing the things you want to do.

SPEAKER_06 12:37

Bus drivers still gotta use the steering wheel, but yeah, back to uh this uh this great tiger cat, you've got some cross country time. And I suspect that's when it really hit you when you're really got time in the airplane to to savor it.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

Um it's it's actually kind of a tough airplane to fly. Um you know, we're we're indicating 220 knots, 225 knots, a cruise at 65, 75, 100 feet. I was following Charlie Hainline down to Florida. Yeah. And um, and you know, you you watch the artificial horizon and you don't see that thing hardly move, just barely perceptible pitch change, and you're going up 1200 feet a minute or going down 1200, it'd be a really tough airplane to fly IFR and hold your altitude right at 100, you know, less than 100 feet. Um but it doesn't like to sit still, is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, it's a fighter. Yeah, yeah, it's uh the other thing about it um is fuel planning. We calculated three gallons a minute cruising in these things, and that was a little conservative, so you'd have a little extra when you got to your destination, but it doesn't have a lot of fuel. No, about two and a half hours of flying, and you better be.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Well, and we had 300 gallons worth of extra fuel on them with the tanks and stuff on both of them. So because otherwise, yeah, it's you're an hour and a half. Yes, you take off, you're looking for your next stock.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

Three gallons a minute. Yeah, yeah. Um, and of course, Charlie had the centerline 300 cellar line tank on this one. Yeah, and I had the two 150s, and the two 150s in between the engine and the fuselage, it's a high pressure area, so you got a lot more drag than his. So I'm having to carry power, and of course, you know, he starts his descent, and I have to add power to keep up with him. Of course, he's going a little fast below two, below 10,000. It was yeah. Um, but they're a super fast airplane.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

They're yeah, well, they just they look fast as sitting on the ground.

SPEAKER_06 14:49

So the first time your first time. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

The first time I flew it, yeah. Um well it was a learning experience. I mean, the airplane was fantastic, it it flew great. I, you know, took off and and did all the maneuvers I was asked to do from the examiner. You know, Charlie was, you know, typed me in it. Um you're solo. First time you ever fly it, you're solo because there's only one set of controls in the airplane. Unless you're on somebody's lap.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah. It's not big enough for that. Yeah, very small.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Yeah. And you sit in the cockpit and and you can almost look straight down just by doing like that. Yeah, you got these big engines out there, but it's it's totally different. The TBM is this humongous cockpit. This is so skinny and narrow. Yeah. But the thing I did discover about it is every airplane I've flown, basically, is you know, if a wing drops off, you know, you just pick it up, and when the wings are there, you just neutralize it and it stops. No, these airplanes, you know, if it's the wings down and you pick it up, it just and then keeps on going. You go, you gotta stop it. You know, you got so much mass out there. Yeah, you got so much mass, you start that swinging and it just wants to keep on going. Counteract. So you actually have to stop the engine torque. So on the my first, you know, coming into landing, I'm you know, it was a little bumpy and I'm going like this the whole way down. Like, what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:12

But yeah, but still, what a deal. Oh, yeah. That's yeah, it's it's not polite to be envious, but I really can't.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, I mean, it that's definitely this is an airplane, like you know, I got the same kind of story with 375 where I was like 1213 when my dad acquired that from Pima, and then we're out there taking that thing apart. So it took you know 30 years before I got to see it fly. Yeah, you know, so I'm kind of in the same boat as you, except for I didn't haven't flown it yet, but I've been in it. So I I kind of understand what that feels like.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

When I hopped in it the day I was getting the typewriting, yeah, dad's standing there and he goes, Don't screw this up. You're the only the third person's ever flown this airplane. I'm like, Oh, it takes a lot. You know, no pressure.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Yeah, yeah, he's pretty good about that kind of you know, putting no pressure on you while you already have enough pressure on you. You're like, okay, thanks. Yeah, that's exactly what I needed. Yeah, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 17:10

Your dad could turn coal into diamonds, I swear.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

So speaking of him, let's go ahead and get into that. I'd like I kind of like the story of how you came involved in this museum, but it kind of started many, many years before the museum was even here. You know, and how did you even meet my dad the first time?

SPEAKER_05 17:28

Um first time I met your dad, I was flying a Lockheed Electra Jr. Um, it was a C40, it wasn't actually a Lockheed 12, it was actually a C40. Uh later on, unfortunately, crashed uh down in Southern California. But anyway, I was flying it to a air show in Tracy, California. And um my daughter was just a little baby at the time, and we parked next to this B-25, and of course, you know, lots of nice shade in the Central Valley underneath this B-25 wing. Yeah, so we'd go over there and and we met your dad, um, and Debbie was there, and Al, and um and of course, you know, we have this little baby, and Debbie's like, so you know, we'd leave Victoria, my daughter, with your your mom, Debbie, and and we'd go off and get something to eat, whatever, come back, and and um it was awesome. So we spent the whole weekend kind of hanging out with your your dad and Debbie and and um really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

And and and you were living in California at the time. Santa Rosa. It was Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa. Yep. Yeah, so and fast forward we move out here and you guys move out.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

Fast forward, I get the airline job uh with the airline we won't mention then, right? And um I end up buying a uh airport community house at at Meadow Lake. Um and I wake up one morning and I open the bedroom curtains, and they're in a hangar that oh, there's a PT-19 with a bunch of cars parked there. Oh, so I shave and shower and get ready to go, everybody's gone. Dang it. I wonder what the story is with that airplane. You know, it's a World War II trainer, it's cool. I didn't even know it was there.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

So here at the National Museum of World War II Aviation in Colorado Springs, Colorado, we have a lot of flying airplanes. Over 25, in fact. In our early years of the fledgling museum, we had like three batteries to share between all of these airplanes. So you can imagine what it was like whenever we decided to fly something, having to remove and lug one of these heavy things called a battery. In the years since Concord came on as a sponsored museum, our battery malfunctions and need to replace them as gun is early. If you've ever fired up a war first, watch one start. You know that you don't always get it light up at the first go. The metaphor we used to have hoping you had enough juice to actually get it fired up just no longer exists for us. We have total confidence that we will have the battery power we need to get the shelf going. At the time, we were using the more conventional aircraft batteries to take the top off and check each individual self upper acid level. Feel the type. You never quite get that level right, and either would be dry or would be overfilling and spilling acid all over you in the plane. I had more than a couple shirts destroyed in the process of moving one of these batteries, but no more.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

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SPEAKER_05 21:22

So a few weeks later, I get up in the morning, I open the bedroom curtains, and oh, there's the PT-19 hanger open again, all these cars. So this time I just brushed my teeth, I got dressed, and I went over there, and it turns out you your dad, uh the the guy had passed away, and his wife was donating the airplane to the museum. And um so I came over and you know, said hi and and told your dad, oh yeah, you're Bill Clears. I met you in Tracy Air Show, and Debbie fell in love with my daughter, and he's like, Yeah, that sounds like Debbie. Yeah. Um and you know, volunteers oftentimes are very enthusiastic. Sometimes not talented. Some are great. And you know, um standing there and talking to your dad, and well we're taking it apart. That yeah, you're taking the airplane apart to get it on a trailer to get it to the museum.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

It was the first airplane donated to the museum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

And um and I I remember taking it apart, and you know, um that that um that um you you need um you need so I just grabbed tools and dove in and started doing stuff that needed to be done, and and and you guys at the end of the day we got them on the trailers and and you want to come help put this thing back together? Well actually you invited me beers, yeah. Yeah, to hey, you need to come to the bar with us. I'm like, oh yeah, you mean the airplane restaurant? And and you said, no, we have our own bar. Um you have your own bar and it's a table. It's a bench with the reprint, you know, we call it the bar.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yeah, you know, that was every Saturday. That's what we would do.

SPEAKER_05 22:55

Well, and Thursdays is back then. Yeah, Thursday nights, too. So I started hanging out on Thursdays. I tried to invite the wife. Um, she did finally come once, and then Bill, of course, picked her off and picked on her, and she's like, I'm not doing that again. I don't want to hang out with a bunch of stupid pilots talking airplanes, you know. But um, yeah, I don't blame her. But it started hanging out, and and Ian was homeschooled at the time. He was 12. Yeah, he was young. Yeah, and so during the day when you guys were, I mean, putting up sheetrock, building cabinets, whatever, just starting the museum, Ian and I would would come out and volunteer and help. And your dad took a liking to him, and when he was about 14, your dad put my son in charge of projects. And it was, you know, it really that was a way better education than going to a public school. Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's fantastic. No comparison. The volunteers, these old retired guys had come to me and man, your son is amazing. And yeah. Yeah, still is. Yeah, Billy is still. He's still running projects over here. Yeah, no, he's got a talented pilot, a super good mechanic. He's yeah, he's a sharp kid. I don't know what the mailman was like, but I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

I'm just gonna ask, you always say you get dropped on your head, and that's why you like this stuff. How many times do you drop him on his head? Uh well, yeah. The ex-wife must have dropped him multiple times.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yeah. That was kind of how you got involved in all this and then started flying a bunch of the stuff.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Well, and then um your dad was talking about you know a PBY, you know, coming to the museum. And I don't know, we need to build another hangar, but I don't know what a wingspan of PBY is. But I I said, it's 104 feet. And he's like, How do you know? Well, I'm typed in one. I flew one out in Santa Rosa. So yeah, it was funny. Yeah. And then you became the PBY pilot. Yeah, because no one else was PBY created. Yeah at all.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Still aren't.

SPEAKER_06 25:07

They still don't have anybody else PBY printed. Well, and since you uh you brought the elephant in the room up. Yes. Um one of the first times I I talked to you, and you said something that has stuck with me about flying the air of that airplane. You know? It's difficult, but you love it, is not adequate description of what you what you describe flying that airplane as.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

A little over 34,000 hours, multiple type ratings. And of all the airplanes I've flown, it is by far the worst flying airplane I've ever flown. But I have the biggest smile on my face when I fly because it's fun. But it's hard to fly with any precision because it just kind of wallows around the number, and every little lift or sink, it's just you know, there's no flaps on it. It's it's it's actually a huge wing.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

Yeah. It's gonna be offended that way.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

That big old boat hanging out underneath, and it just kind of wallows through the air. And yeah, it's hard to fly with any, you know, any precision.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Now he's being very not generous to himself. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_06 26:18

I've well, I've I've seen that airplane fly with precision.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Well, and I've I've taken one flight in it, and I was in the back, and you know, he got to do like a short approach to the short, the small runway here. And I was back there kind of like, wow, are we gonna make this turn with this this thing? You know, and I mean it was pretty awesome. I think you did very well with it.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

That's why I like fighting force fires, because you're down there having a lot of time.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Yeah, you're low and you're making the making the 180, and and you're just you just greased it. I mean, thing was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_05 26:48

Yeah, no, I I'm I I love flying it. It's it's hard to fly with precision.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

You know, you well just kind of as a passenger in the back. I I could say that you make it seem like you're flying it with very well with precision. You do a great job at it. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 27:05

Well, I again layman looking up at the air show looked pretty damn precise to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

So but it takes a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

I mean, you know, when I'm flying it in the air show, I'm like, come on, come on, you know, and then well that's the thing, is you gotta make you gotta really make uh be thinking ahead when you're flying that thing, right? Because it's not like this where you just bank it and you you're you're making the turn. You're like, well, I gotta make that turn by the by the time I get to that marker over there. And so I better start it now.

unknown 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

And then once I'm starting to make that turn, you better already have the correction in to get the other way. Otherwise, you're going right over the crowd or something.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

And I I actually they used them for fighting force fires. Yeah, they did. A lot of them, they'd put the B-25 QECs on them for the more power, but I can't imagine flying that in the turbulence and the wind and uh you're right above the trees fighting for a full load of retardant or just water. Yeah, my respect goes out to those people who fought force fires.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, that airplane is in probably one of the greatest opening shots of a movie ever. Oh, always. Yeah, isn't that like the greatest?

SPEAKER_05 28:14

I've I've only watched that maybe one thousand times. Two thousand times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

That is such a good that thing just comes in and you're just like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah, there we go. That's a classic. If you haven't seen that movie, you gotta see always. Absolutely, highly recommended. Yeah, holds up to this day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:31

Well, I think there were some mariners still fighting fires up till a few years ago.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

And I think, yeah, they just they just uh didn't they just retire that last year I think I think so.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

Oh shouldn't oh you mean the Martin Mars? Martin Mars yeah, yeah, the Martin Mars. I actually applied to them. I wanted to to fly those, fighting force fires, because I love the seaplanes, I love that whole thing. And um, and so I uh uh sent them a application and they said, nope, we need five thousand hours of multi-engine seaplane time before they'd even talk to you. I was like, Really? How do you get that? So that was Chocks Airlines. Well, no, I was and then I thought, okay, I'll apply at Chocks Airlines, they were flying the albatrosses, I'll I'll do that. Yeah, you know, because it didn't say PIC time, it just said 5,000 hours of multi-enged sea time. And I ended up not you know going a different route a different route. And Ian told me, see, I was looking uh retiring early, I was looking at uh the CL415s, that'd be awesome, multi-handed sea. Uh you know, I love flying in the water and everything else. And Ian tells me, Dad, that's a young man's game. Because they're going fire, lake, fire, lake, fire lake. Um, and and NAFA training, the the uh Forest Service training for uh firefighting pilots, I uh eavesdropping on a conversation with one of the CL 415 guys, and he did 86 drops in one day. Holy smokes is tough. Yeah, because you're not you're not just going to you know lake and picking. No, you're watching out for boaters and kayakers and and fishermen, and then you're going to the fire with the always movie. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I I everything I heard about Neptune was just it's a fantastic company. So I applied it Neptune and and now I'm working for Neptune.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

So how excited are you to start this new chapter? Oh, very I can't wait to go.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

Back to flying. Yeah, during the training when I was up in Missoula, we did, you know, I rode along on some practice drops and training drops, and it's like, oh yes, that's fun.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

And you just passed your check right like two days ago?

SPEAKER_05 30:48

Uh yes. Yeah. Yep, two days ago.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

So you're good to go.

SPEAKER_05 30:51

You got the Well, I still do got to do the IOE, you know, with a qualified uh instructor co-pilot at one of the bases. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_06 31:02

So besides the Tiger Cat and the and the PBY, what other aircraft I've I mean I've seen you in a couple of others. Talk talk some about the rest of the museum aircraft.

SPEAKER_05 31:16

Um the TBM is oh yeah. I've flown the TBM, and the thing that impresses me about the TBM is it's not real fast, and it's not real maneuverable. It's very heavy on the controls, um, which is great for a for a torpedo bomber. Torpedo bomber platform, but I can't imagine you're you gotta get down there and you gotta be steady, and you know, your your torpedo, oh 10 degrees to the left, you know, and to drop this torpedo, and you gotta be, and that whole time you're trying to be steady and stable. Guess what? Everybody's shooting you right at you. And that's it.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

You don't have to figure out your altitude.

SPEAKER_05 31:58

You're not jinking in, you know, like any fighter.

SPEAKER_06 32:01

Yes, they take exception to being torpedoed, I understand.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Yes, I think that's why that wasn't a very successful torpedo platform, though. Oh no, actually it was.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um the torpedoes were the problem early on. Yes. And at midway, the pilots have been trained, you gotta be a hundred feet at 80 knots. I mean, talk about please shoot me down. Yes. Once they they got the torpedo squared away, it the drops were actually from 400 and and about 200 knots. Which in a TBM, you that's like when again, the uh the first time the Japanese encountered the Avenger was at the midway, and they couldn't believe how tough it was and how fast it was. And yeah, eventually uh they were very successful um by 44. They they put some ships on the bottom, yeah. And in fact, they helped sink uh Yamato. I mean biggest warship ever built. Yeah. Well these gun warship. And yeah, it was the the fault of really was the torpedo.

SPEAKER_05 33:20

Well, when I've flown the TBM, I I've pictured what it would be like, and no thanks. Get me in a Corsair where I can, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Start way high, yes, come in, you can exactly dodge anything I can.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

Eventually they figured out that you can throw bombs on a Corsair or Hellcat, and you don't need a dedicated dive bomber to uh to do the job. Yeah, yeah. But um, yeah, I mean, I again the the first talk I ever did was the debut of the Avenger, and I just I can't imagine those guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:00

No, it it would have been a tough I would have much gone rather gone to war in a in a Corsair or something like that than you know than a I don't believe they at asked those guys. Yeah, no, even even the PBY, it it you're cruising 100 to 110 knots indicated. That's that's cruise.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

And yeah, you're just a sitting giant target out there. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 34:23

Well they they found that out early on, which uh which is why they did most of their combat at night after I mean they just got slaughtered at Jolo in in 1942. But imagine, if if you will, because you've got a good imagination, flying that airplane with a couple of torpedoes slung under it.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

Wouldn't that be interesting? Depth charges or yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:47

Yeah, depth or four bombs. Yep. But you're making a uh a passing dive attack at a submarine, and if they're serviced or surfaced, excuse me, they're gonna be shooting at you, and near such a slow target, it'd be like shooting a goose flying by. Boom! You know, it's like yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 35:06

I've shot geese.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

It'd probably be more difficult. Yeah, a much bigger target than with a gathering gun. Yeah, you're gonna take that thing out. Yeah. But flying the other airplanes here, I've been blessed. Your dad's let me fly, you know, the the Beach 18, the Widgeon. You know, unfortunately. Well, you've flown them in a long time, but you flew the widgeon, huh? I'm the very last person to have flown the widgeon. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. And I used to own a widgeon project, uh, an old Pan Am airplane. Um, I ended up selling it to help buy the house at Meadow Lake. But yeah, I've always loved seaplanes. Uh I don't know. The Boeing 314, I go, I go to um what is badass coffee over there in Falcon. And I go Nicole loves the coffee, so I go in there and what do I do? I walk in there and I look at the picture of the Boeing 314 in the water in Hawaii. It's you know, it's just moored up 314.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Well, it's got everything you'd you want as a guy almost. It's like it's like a boat and a plane, and you know, it's just all of it. All in one package. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:06

I just finished uh Ernest K. Gann's autobiography, and he, of course, flew a lot of aircraft, and I found out he actually flew an F-111.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

But he said the the seaplanes was an epiphany. He said, Where where has this been all my life?

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:31

You know, he's he's got a uh Booker Jungman doing aerobatics and stuff like that, but then his final love, and it's like, why have I wasted so much time? Because he was a sailor and a pilot, and how do you I mean, how much more perfect could that be?

SPEAKER_05 36:51

Yeah, it's it's really fun to go to the airport. And it's really fun to get in a really cool World War II airplane, like a PBY, and then hop in that and fly it and go land in the lake somewhere. Go swimming, and wouldn't it be cool?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

It's yeah, it's yeah, it's we like buzzing lakes, so you know then you'd be able to land in it and then have all the yeah, and just hang out, go swimming and hey, can you guys move? I gotta go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. This has been a a great episode. Um, definitely burned through the time. I got one more question, maybe. I how many airplanes do you think that you've flown in your lifetime?

SPEAKER_05 37:29

Um actually had uh frontier crew member asked me that, and I sat down and went through all of them, and it it came out to um I think it was 75 different, and that's you know, like Cessna 140, Cessna 150, Cessna 170, Cessna 180, Cessna 185, you know, 195, and I adding them all up, you know, uh steermans and PT-22s and and it was uh 75 different airplanes from from the little ultralight that my old name was. So then add on to that.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

I mean of all the planes you haven't flown, which is the unicorn, which is the one you're missing you're missing right now. Um that you haven't.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

I was this close to getting typed in the in the Brewster. Yeah, I would love to fly. Nicole's great granddad flew those in World War II. Yeah, we know. And I would absolutely love to fly a Corsair. I mean, who doesn't like a Corsair? It's an absolutely gorgeous. Nobody's saying I mean almost everybody grew up in the world. This airplane's definitely the sexiest airplanes in the museum.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

But it's very not well known. You know, most people don't even know what a tiger cat is because it wasn't in the war, it didn't have all the footage.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

It wasn't on Baba Black Sheep, it wasn't right, you know, yeah, didn't get the fame and and the fortune. Yeah, yeah. And um the Tiger Cat is is a sexy airplane, but the Corsair is a is yeah, that's yeah, hitter patter. Yeah, yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

No, I think that's I think that's a great note to end on. Yeah, because we are gonna be flying the Corsair on April 18th. Yeah, due little day for the first fly day. Yeah. And uh Matt Outing's gonna talk about uh the Brits flying the Corsair because you know they're the ones who taught our guys how to how to get aboard the ship.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

The um the other airplane, unfortunately, was White 33. Because my my very first flight instructor was a P38 pilot in World War II in the South Pacific, and he told me some awesome stories. Um, unfortunately, I was in high school and and I didn't really I appreciated his history, but I I wish the heck in in hindsight that I'd picked his own.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Everybody that we've ever talked to that's our age or whatever that has been around this is the same way. Yeah. I mean, I I was I got lineup uh being a Chino as a kid, and just all I cared about was running around and wanting to buy little trinkets, and you know, and and sitting inside the hangar were you know, every ace that was alive essentially selling books. And you could have just sat there and just talked to those guys all day long, and I was just too busy like well to do other things.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

And when I used to fly the PBY Gus Vincent's back in Santa Rosa, we take their shows all the time, and you get these guys that come out, you know, and they'd come and look at the the PBY and they'd be like enamored by the PBY.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

I'm like, there's a Corsair over there, there's a P51, there's a P40, there's all this, and and and they're like, no, this is this is my favorite airplane because this one saved my life.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

Yep, and they'd be there with a tear in their eye, yeah, in love with the PBY. And I'm thinking, this pigboat, there's all these cool fighters, you know, you don't appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

If you're in the middle of the ocean and you're one man like there's a personal connection to those people, yeah. That's a funny thing.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Because they wouldn't be there looking at it if it wasn't for that airplane. Yes, exactly. So yeah, well, there's a good way to leave it off. Yeah, really appreciate you sitting down with us, and uh definitely expect that we're gonna do this again because you're a plethora knowledge of airplanes is just vast. Yeah, and we really appreciate it. No, it's still working as far as we know. We'll find out later. But yeah, we'll see. All right, Ian, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 41:11

Thank you for having me. Great. Thanks for being ahead. Well, as I say, the when the idea for this podcast first came up, Ian was the first guy I thought about.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Yeah, he's definitely been on my list, and you know, he's probably wanted to hold off for a little bit and make sure that this thing wasn't some janky operation that it, you know, or that at least we get our crap together and kind of make it into something. So it's just good to have him on. I mean, you know, like I I was saying, he's he's a pilot's pilot, you know. Oh he's he's he's just one of those grassroots guys, you know, that likes to get in the airplane and just go. And he doesn't care where he's going or what he's doing as long as he's flying, you know, having fun doing it, you know. And that was like my question about you know, how how do you survive the airlines for so long when it's very regimented, you know, push button.

SPEAKER_06 42:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

You know, like you said, you you get up to a certain point and you gotta let it fly itself. And so but I guess it's just that you come back home and you you know live at an airport and you pull his own airplane out and then you go get it.

SPEAKER_06 42:13

Well, you gotta fund these things somehow.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't been able to figure that out myself.

SPEAKER_06 42:19

So paying the bills. Well, um we already talked about the fly day. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Um we still got uh buildings being done. Um sightings almost all up on it right now. I mean it's going pretty fast, but of course we're still looking to to fund it completely, finish funding it. So if you can go to the website, if you're interested in donating anything at all, um it all helps. And again, in the description, if if you are a Kroger grocery, and it doesn't matter where you're at in the country, I guess. Currently it works everywhere in the country. Um, in the description where you found the podcast, you can go step by step. It takes about two minutes if you're if you shop at these places. Set it up on their website, put us as their benefactor your benefactor. It doesn't affect you at all, it doesn't cost you anything, but we get a small percentage of whatever you spend at these grocery stores comes to the museum, and every little bit helps.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

Hey, mill levees work for a reason. Yeah, it tiny, tiny little bits accumulate, and all those tiny little bits will help us. Now, of course, uh we're starting to really gear up for the air show 1920 September. Yes, we are. Uh I don't know if it's sold out yet or not. No, it's not sold out.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

It probably won't sell until it's close to the yeah, it's kind of how air shows go. They don't always sell out right away because people people get excited about things when they start coming out. But the problem is if you wait too long, then you st I then I start getting the phone calls later, they hey, do you have any tickets?

SPEAKER_06 43:58

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

Because they're all gone. So I would highly suggest, and and not only that, but they do the pricing on a tier. So they sell so many tickets at the cheapest price. Yep. And then when those are gone, they bump up the price a little bit. So if you know you'd like to go to a great air show and you you're gonna be available September 19th and 20th, which is the best time of the year out here in Colorado, and get your tickets now, save you some money, you're set, you don't have to worry about it, and then all you have to do is just plan for getting here on in September.

SPEAKER_06 44:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

And we're gonna have some amazing airplanes, man. I'm really excited about what we got going on at this show, and it's really taking shape. So yeah, really excited about it. As you should be. All right, Rob. Well, I got to get to work. So thanks, brother. For uh Concorde Batteries, our guest Ian Wayman, William Stevenson behind the cameras, my co host Rob Gale, and myself, Scott Claire. Stay safe out there. Please do.