Running Our Simulators and College Internships, the Mastermind Behind the Scenes: W.V.Ep 42

Rob and Scott sit down with Vern Patterson and talk about developing the museums simulators with the college internship program, being an Air Force Meteorologist and restoring the link trainer.

#warbirds #museum #flying  #podcast  #planes  #history #aviation  #family #nationalmuseumofwwiiaviation #linktrainer #meteorology 

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The Museums next flyday will be on July 18th and the presentation will be about the WAAF's and the WASP's presented by our very own ROB GALE!  We are scheduled to fly the B-25, with Scott in the right seat!  It will be a fun one!  This will be a great one for all the women out there!

Come celebrate the nations 250th Anniversary on the 4th of July!  Flights, sit inside various cockpits, food trucks, music, cars, ride in military vehicles and more!  Peaks2plains weather will be live streaming from 8:30-10:30.  Find them on the socials at Peaks2Plains.com.  All for the normal price of admission!!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Hello everyone, and welcome to Winged Victory with Rob and Scott, a podcast by the National Museum of World War II Aviation here in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Welcome to yet another episode of Winged Victory with Rob and Scott. I'm strangely enough Rob. Scott Claire's. That's me. Indeed. Once again, in the flesh. You're still here. And uh today we uh we have a special guest, Vern Patterson. Hi. And we are here in what some people call Vern land. This is this is your little empire. Um behind uh behind Vern you can see one of his first products, the the Link Trainer. And actually all around us are is is your handiwork. Is the link was the first one you did for us? Yes. And how many years did that take?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

It was about four or four and a half years. It was a complete restoration ground up, basically.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

And it actually works.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

And it actually works, yeah. Yeah. For for the most part. Some of the instruments did, and it's just too expensive to send them off and get them fixed. And it doesn't add anything to the visitor's uh appreciation of seeing it move.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah. Yeah, we're not we're not doing instrument training in it yet. Although I could. And how many and it's got the full desk.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yes. Uh yeah, the desks are actually harder to find than the uh fuselages for the link. Uh they were purposized for other things after the war, and uh and so the desks are actually pretty hard to find. We have two uh esters. Well, we have actually three eters. Oh, no kidding. So we've been able to collect a few.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Well, you know, the military loves their desks. Maybe we need to package those things and start uh making some trades.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, well, absolutely. I don't have a problem with that.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

So tell us a little bit about your background. Like where did you come from? What did you grow up doing?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Well, I grew up in Washington State, small town on the uh coast, about six miles from the ocean, uh very mild temperatures, and then went uh still at Washington State and uh graduated in physics and and then uh went into the Air Force and was in weather for 26 and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Two two weathermen back to back. Back to back. I didn't realize. You and Gene. I I had heard that you were a weather guy.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah. Well, I'm a quasi-weather guy because I never made an official Air Force forecast. Oh, really? That was 26 years? Yes. Uh they first sent me to an engineering climatology stool, and then uh uh sent me to Dradstool at the University of Michigan and came back from there as a by name request to set up a space physics program at the uh uh Air Force uh Climatic Center. And so uh I did that and then sent me to Alaska for three years and came back and did some space physics for a while, and and uh but I was also uh weather detachment commander in Korea and also director of Joint Typhoon Warning Center, and then had a DO job and and whatnot as a wing deal for weather.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

But you actually use your physics degree in your military career. Oh, very much so. How often does that happen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Well, at that time a lot of people came into the military in weather, they were hurting so bad, they didn't get a lot of weather people. And so they ended up taking a lot of engineers and and uh then making them weather people. They'd sent them off to a stool for a year to study concentrated weather and and they were weather people. And so they understood the physics or the mechanical and all the aspects of weather, which was great for the Air Force because we had the background that most of the meteorologists don't have. So we could understand the impacts on the weapon system, I think, much better than they can today.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah. That's and the weather impacts us all, of course, and all of our stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yes. It's it's it's pretty critical. You need to be able to tell the pilots or the commanders what how weather's gonna affect the mission.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Yeah. Slightly.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

So the Air Force brought you to Colorado? Is that how you wound up here?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

No, I retired and came out here to work for uh Hughes Aircraft on a contract uh converting space environment scientific models into operational models in the space environment.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

So from theory to practice.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah. Well, we've done that in the Air Force quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Can you explain that a little bit? What what are you talking about to the layman?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Well, again, it's it's magneto through rate and ionothreal rate, uh, how it affects weapon systems, radar systems, it's also ground-based uh communication systems, and you've got the effects of uh weather on uh various sensor systems that they're using now to guide missiles and whatnot. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

So you were a contractor here in the springs, and you found us how?

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Uh basically I had seen they were just starting sending out some information about the museum starting. This is in June of 2012. So it was before the museum opened, and and uh so I came in and and said uh I do a little bit of cabinet building. And of course at that time we were just starting to design and lay things out.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Yeah, I always thought he was just a woodworker. I didn't know you were like doing weather and space physics and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, so yeah, so we designed I designed a lot of the initial cabinets that went into the museum and built many of them. So that was a fun time.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

Yeah, no, it was definitely another interesting time. It was uh kind of okay, we're just gonna build a museum. Yeah. And I think I think he started with an initial forty thousand dollars and we built the entire or the of the small museum, yeah, you know, on that budget, slave labor.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

So slave labor, definitely a lot of hours and a lot of uh drywall dust and whatnot that we had to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Trial and error so different from all of us who are magnificently paid for our efforts here. That's what I'm saying. If the model works, why change it?

SPEAKER_04 8:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, I mean it's really a tremendous cost to what we've done from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

You know, 12, 14 years now. And uh it's basically built by the volunteers.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Yeah, it all is. It still is. You know, and it's it's there's a lot of forethought that goes into it now. You know, before it was just like we're just gonna make these cabinets and we're gonna have these displays, and I mean it was it was good, but it wasn't, you know, as well thought out. Now everything's you know on rollers and you know, we can move everything out of the way in like 30 minutes and have that complete place you know emptied out. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Well you learn, you learn as you go, and 14 years worth of experience. So I would hope we'd have learned something. Yeah. So how did you get on the Link Trainer?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Well, because I had done some woodwork, it was in pretty sad shape. And our uh head restorer for the museum at the time, his uh his aunt Law or so had worked at Linked in New Um New York and supposedly had a lot of documents that he had. Well, so he was head of the project, and then uh his wife said uh you need to go find a job, so I think he went to Saudi Arabia to work on helicopters. And so then I I just became the natural lead and because it was mostly uh a lot of woodwork needed to be done on it, and then everything had to be pulled apart and cleaned, and it was a pretty dirty mess. But uh it's an amazing piece because it's uh we uh mostly had to clean everything up. A few of the valves had to be redround, but everything in there is essentially original.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Original. And what vintage is that link, do you know?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

It's a 1943.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

So a World War II produced?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yes. It's called an ATN 18. And it was probably the largest number of of the original type of links produced. Of course Link is still in business. And they're now owned by they used to be owned by L3 Harris, and I think they've been sold recently to somebody else, a Canadian firm, in fact. I don't know the name of it.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

What are they doing now? You know? I don't know. Because they're not building link trainers.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

They're still building trainers, yeah. Trainers are simulating.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

But I think I don't know um what ones they're doing now.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

A little different than the ones in 43. Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah, what was something about that? It's it's that's really unique.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Well, the fact is it's uh you know moves in three axis. Uh most of the simulators after about 1949 or so uh were fixed.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

And so the movement is is kind of interesting. Now the modern simulators, of course, move, but they do not rotate. Yeah. They do rotation visually.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yeah. In instead of physically, I mean. I've seen you in, you know, doing spins and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, I don't I don't know. I used I that was about sets or something like that, I think. Yeah it's it's not horribly fast.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

I don't know. There's uh I think when you're in there and you got the cover over you and you don't see anything but light, light, you know, you're just in that hole and you're spinning. I bet it feels like it's pretty fast.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Well, yeah, the first time you get in it, yeah, you know, and and some people I've had people say every time they got in it, they got sick.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

I don't quite understand that. And and why, you know, how they would be pilots without getting sick all the time. Because uh Well I I don't know. You're closed in, so it's a little bit of a confinement thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

And dark.

unknown 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Dark as dark. There's something about not having your eyes out out the window, though. Like, you know, there's times when we're we're flying the bomber and he's flying, and and I gotta watch instruments because, you know, icing or whatever, and it's bumpy, and you're kind of watching everything and making adjustments, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh no, I don't feel so good. So it's just something about having your eyes down.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Well, yeah, there is uh a handle on the back of that that you can turn, and it adds atmospheric air to various portions of the vacuum system. So it's like adding air to your water line, it hammers. And uh and but how many times you turn that crank intensifies the roughness. And so they called it a roughness generator, but it's really a turbulence generator. Wow. So that was one of the things that the instructors could uh make life interesting for the uh the pilots. Boy.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

That's definitely one of those times when you show up with that apple.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yes, you're yo teach or you uh you regret you regret the pass you made at the wasp at the control desk last night.

unknown 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Well, and that's I've had a couple of was or the instructors say uh if somebody made a pass out of that they did not light. They made his light miserable. Because they had cut out, they had trade the turbulence, they had changed the winds in different directions and different intensities, and they had also cut out the uh some of the controls, like the gyro champ, they had cut out and the turn and bank indicator. So if you lose those in the dark, you're kind of you know trouble. You it's gonna create a bit of a problem.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Yeah, absolutely. Big trouble.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

And so and then they would give you a whole group of scenarios that you would have to go through. And so, yeah, there's some interesting stories about pilots who uh did some funny things in there. Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Yeah. Yeah. A bunch of young kids coming in thinking they're hot shots, and hey, let me talk to this lady over here. Yeah, I get yeah, I haven't dealt with that every single week. Yeah, just about.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Well, it's still interesting. Once in a while I'll put pilots in there who really have a wish to get in there. It's part of their bot list. And occasionally you'll find somebody that may not have been the best pilot in the world. Uh the did pilots, as soon as they start to move a little bit, they start to react to the change in direction or whatever. And others just don't have that quick feel. And you have a radio on one side that creates an imbalance. So it naturally wants to fall to the right side. If you go to the right side, then it tends to get into a spin. Yeah. And so you really, once it starts to fall, you need to be able to correct it. And you can really find a really good pilot. He gets in there and you could just see it start to go, and then he's he's jotted.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Yeah, it's amazing to me how people don't certain pilots don't feel that, but just people in general. They're taking people for rides and you let them fly, you know, and it's you're just like looking at him, you're going, you see that big how everything's green? Yeah. That's the ground. That's a that's a hint. Do something. And then it turns into well, see how everything's just blue? You know, do something. There's just no reaction. It's weird. It's a weird, it's a weird thing. You would think that you would just get in and you look around and you would keep it where he needs to go. Well, you would let it.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Some people just don't have that, I guess. Yeah, well, there are certain people who have a natural feel for flying. And we see it in the uh N3N when we're doing that simulator. There's I've had five-year-olds get in there and just have a natural feel. Yeah. I've had other people never flown really in their life, at least in a cockpit, and they just pet up right away.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

That's a that's a great segue into the N3N, because when you were saying, what do you see? You know, and and just yesterday I was working it and I had a about a 10-year-old in there who was who was doing pretty well. I said, but remember, over the cowling is where the airplane is going, and so if you see dirt, you should probably do something.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

So the N3N is kind of the centerpiece for right now of our experiential place here. And you obviously had a starring role in that one too.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Well, yes, I you know, I won't say I came up with the idea, but when we first got the N3N, it was sort of speed up, and everybody you tore the lanes off of it and straightened some things up and and put it back together. And and the idea was to put the control surfaces to the controls such that you move the stairs or the rudders, you see the actual surfaces of the plane move. And then uh I was starting to think of senior projects for university students, and and we said, well, let's put a simulation package in it. So uh they did a tremendous job. Um no doubt the best senior project group we had. I think they put six of them put something like 400 hours in it in the last month to get it so that they could fly it. Uh and so just had one monitor for the uh and then one instructor's monitor. Uh later on, we rewrote the software and and added uh turn and bank and pitch control and and tow brakes to it and whatnot. Some things that later groups as college students couldn't really do very well. And so and added the the three new monitors. So uh that was done by my staff here. And uh so that really brought it to light, I think, with the three monitors across the front.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

It's it's so much fun. In fact, we we got a little bit of an episode with Scott in the cockpit.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Yeah, I fly that thing all the time. Yeah. Guilty. Yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

I flew the thing on floats yesterday from Johnson Reservoir.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Yeah, it's definitely a little bit of a difference between that and the link trainer, though, because that's I could see where kids would be pretty good with that because it it's kind of video game feel to it. Where when you're in the link trainer, that's that's a C to your pants kind of feel.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yes. And the link too, some of the the control is a little loose, I guess from age, and so we probably need to machine some parts and trying to clean that up.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Well, that's really that that's a trainer. Yeah. Trainer. Yeah, no, that was. This is this is a simulator. Yeah, it's just I mean you can teach people.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Yeah, you're well, you're just trying to give people a little bit of an experience, maybe something they wouldn't get.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Well, I've had you know really good pilots and and people that threw flew the uh N3N or flew the uh Drakeway Sportster, which is our primary uh model we use there, and they've they've said that is very, very realistic.

unknown 19:49

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yeah, it is. I mean, yeah, I do all kinds of landings, tailwheel landings in the thing all the time. Yeah, so it's it's uh Okay, well now I gotta learn.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah. The thing that is missing is probably uh loops and crosswinds and whatnot that you can if you do it that situation and throw a crosswind in it, oh you if you're gonna loop it, drown loop, it's gonna just go black. You don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Well, and I think that that's that takes it to a different level. Yeah, yeah. Where you're just trying to give people an experience. Oh yeah. You know, versus hey, let's get serious with this, which is kind of what you guys are doing with the next project. Yes, that's right. Which is the with the is the B-25.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, the B-25 it's not gonna be usable by younger kids. Uh it's just the seating situation, the uh the room you have is just you can't get the seats close enough to the rudder pedals and whatnot, feels kind of heavy. It's gonna be designed more for teenagers and adults. Uh we'll be able to put a young kid in the cot pit, you know, the co-pilot seat with their dad fly it or something like that. So I didn't get the feel of it a little bit, but it's really gonna be for the older.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Well, we should explain a little bit too. It's in a real B-25 cockpit section. It's a whole nose section. It's a whole nose section, and it is actually being used for years as a movie prop. So they actually built all these panels on it. You can take the panels off and film inside, and they're sitting in a B-25. Uh, but these guys are taking this thing and they're they're building this program. It's pretty amazing because I sat down with these kids last week and kind of ran through the the program on just on the computer, but I mean it's a full full start. You know, you're you're using the primer, you're using boost pumps, you're using the phone. Oh, so you actually have to start the airplane. Oh, it's the whole thing. Yeah, it is and and they're asking all the right questions like how does it sound, how does how does this react? You know, what happens when we do this? So we actually got them in there and filmed, let them film it while we're starting it. Um, I got some GoPro footage of us flying it last weekend. So They had an idea of what it sounds like, you know, when the props aren't synced.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

And how many, how many folks do you have working on the B-25?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Well, I have 16 interns total. Basically, two are working on the Norton Baum site, two are working on the 50 cal waist center position and a B-17, and most of the rest are working on the B-25. So, and and right now I think I'm up to 17 students, and I may add another one here shortly.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

I'm thoroughly blown away by not only their their skill and what they're doing with the thing. I mean, it's it is a cockpit. It is it is the full the full deal, but their enthusiasm for it, and they're just, I mean, they were just they are so excited to do this project.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yes. Well, it's, you know, in college, they don't get a chance to really get into depth in study. And uh it's so broad, and the depth of study is fairly low at high level. And so getting their teeth into a real project that has a real purpose and is going to be help the museum be uh, you know, this is world-class stuff, I think, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Oh, yeah, this takes a lot of time.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

So that they they get enthused about that, and they're having fun.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

But, you know, the whole purpose of the intern program is not to build the B-25, it's to train the students, teach them how to work in industry. So that's our that's the reason we get the the money from the Kane Family Foundation is to help the students be better able to transition into industry. And so our emphasis is mostly on them learning how to drill down, how to communicate against different major fields. So we have mechanical engineering, aeronautical engineers, we have computer engineers, computer science, and double E, electrical engineering.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

So they all got to talk to each other.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

They have to be able to talk to each other in a language they all understand. And of course, that is absolutely critical in in industry. And there's numerous cases where we know of where uh groups were set up to do advanced work or to find new ideas, but they couldn't communicate those ideas and the value to management. So they died. And uh Apple is is a primary example of that with Steve Jobs going over and working at some of the work that was being done, I believe it was by Xerox and the advanced uh technology group. And uh the guys were you know come up with a lot of the things that Steve Jobs uh later incorporated, and uh he was sued, but they didn't win that suit because they had a chance to do it themselves.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

And so have you heard from I mean, this has been what four years now?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

This is our third year.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah. Have you I mean, and some of the some of the folks have gone on and oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Uh yeah, we've had a very good hire rate with our our students. And that's that's a satisfying part of it because that's what we want them to get jobs. And so they've either gotten new intern jobs and then hired on, or they've got jobs directory, or some of them have gotten interns and then moved up quite well. So we're seeing it's working.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Well, I'm imagining it's a great middle ground between school and work where they can get into something and then and figure out do I really want to do this? Is this is this the direction I want to go with all this?

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah. We had one student uh that uh decided he was not gonna be an engineer and went into history.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

And we've we've had some others that have kind of changed in and their direction because they just found it was totally not for them. They were not interested in. And you know, that's to us uh uh satisfying too, because it's better to do it early in your career than later.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

And so slave away wishing you were doing something else.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And so it's it's a good program. And uh this this year we've been able to expand it out that we uh went to uh pretty full load on the summer. In the past, I've had a little extra money that I could hold a few of them on for some of the summer period, but this year we've got most all of our team or most of our team is is here in the summer, and they can work up to 30 hours a week.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

I was gonna say they're almost like pretty full time over here.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah. And so and that increases the learning speed much faster and the product development. And of course, the product development is important because it's developing a product for us, but as important as that is, they need to be able to gain confidence that they're doing and can complete a difficult test.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

They've done all the steps in developing a product. So really you've got to come up with projects that that they can complete in their time being here. It's not something that you want to pass on from team to team. It is something we can pass on. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

And that we're seeing things there where in doing that, I think the skill level is increasing because the Norton project has evolved and the 50 Cal project has evolved, even though we got to a certain point that was sort of satisfactory. The new team had come in and added fresh ideas. Fresh ideas, or we found some problems in it that we hadn't recognized first. So we're learning at the same time the students are to how to manage this and and and to improve their capabilities. So we've added more uh documentation requirements on them this year. Uh we're forcing them into doing reviews, et cetera, the things that they're gonna have to do in industry.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

And that's that's very realistic. I was thinking those of us who were in the service, you know, you get a job for about two years. And sometimes you go in and don't know anything, and if you're lucky, the person that had that has that job then continue on it. Pass it on, but you know you're gonna have to do the same thing. And I think that's gonna be really valuable for these folks.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

I agree. I think again, we're trying to make it as real world as as we can. And uh the weeds are improving and they're pet enough from other weeds of things that we started and making improvements on it.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

And so it's it's it's a well that 30-hour week is something when we talked to Jennifer and Lydia, they were saying, you know, when it's when it's only a day a week, you have to kind of start from scratch every every day, and now you've got real continuity in this.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Yes. Well, yeah, and that and that's why we do four-day week over at Westpac, because you know, by if you do an eight-hour day, you get in by the time you get going, yeah, and then you're then you're like dragging up, you know, you're only getting six hours of work or whatever. Um so the ten hours really lets you just kind of get locked in and then you go. Yeah. So that's the same premise. Like, you know, one day a week is just not that's not work, that's a hobby. Well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah, that's that's mostly true. And and so it's it's you know, that's that's why we went to the 30-hour week, and and I was able to get extra money thanks to the Cain Foundation, because I think they recognize that too.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, well, there's a real benefit for it. Yes. And so for everybody. I mean, we we can't thank the Kane Foundation enough, I don't think. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

And they've been very enthusiastic and supportive. And so I it's it's a good group of people. They really support us and they understand our intent and and they're actively trying to help us improve the program.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Well, and it seems like it's been a constant uh improvement just watching from the side and being a history guy.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

And speaking of improvement, I mean this place has been here since 2014, but it's about to relocate, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. And it's about to relocate and expand? Uh well or just getting moved over.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

It's a little bit of a space problem right now. Uh uh the room I'm in is a little tight. I think originally I had planned to put the uh B-25 in a U-shaped screen. As we get into that a little bit, uh the cost of uh four laser projectors and and doing the U-shaped strain. There were some technical limits and in size and space in there uh that treating some potential problems. Uh and the cost was starting to head pretty high. So are you guys using projectors on that? Now we're that was the idea. Okay. To all have three or four laser projectors. Yes. But now in looking at it, uh I can do strings, uh TV large strains. It'll be a little different because you're going to be surrounding the cockpit with strains and the bombardier section with strains. But there's some real advantages in that, and we could give the cockpit people a better view than they would get with the projectors, and the same with the bombadeers.

SPEAKER_04 32:03

So you just run that on like a curve screens? You know, we have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, well, the you know, the diagonal types of uh screens like we do on the M3N, where uh you've got a flat screen in front of you and then you diagonal them off a little bit to get a size.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Well now they got the but they got the curve screens, so you don't want to use it.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

None of them are that big of curve. Uh uh I think a 52-inch curve screen is about the widest, and it's only about this high. And they're fairly expensive.

SPEAKER_05 32:34

I bet.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

And so uh and those give you a little different view, but if you're not sitting real close, you're sitting back 60 inches, five feet away from that. I don't think you really the luck that you want. I I think we can do just as well. Your eye adjusts pretty well to uh having uh strings at angles. Well when we have 180 degrees on the N3N and that uh you know, those aren't huge monitors, but I think it's it's it gets it gets it done as far as the we will see, you know, once we get it going and and whatnot, you know, maybe in the future if we can get a little more space or whatever in the uh final addition to the museum, maybe we do go to the projector strains. But again, it's so important to give the pilot as best view of the ground as you can, because in the B-25, if you walk straight ahead, you've got the cowlings, you don't have much of a view.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, it's just the news.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

You're walking through kind of the side portion.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Yeah. And 45 degrees there.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah. And so in looking at how we weigh out the monitors, or uh you get a better view of that with the monitors than you will with the uh strain that's 15 feet away.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Yeah. So well this is this is gonna be exciting. It's interesting that we've we're looking at 40,000 new square feet, and already it's getting cut.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Well, and that's that's the great thing about the museum.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

We're growing and we're getting better.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Speaking of growing, what you got any future projects on on the books? Well, or are you just gonna kind of tr keep taking what you got and I've got some future ideas.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Uh you know, I'd like to build some sort of a uh three axis movement fighter thing. Oh, wow. Or a motion seat. Uh there's a lot of things we can do, or we can play with G-force. So there's a lot of things we can do. The question is, is how many simulators can you have in one place?

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Yeah. And so I don't think you can have enough. Well, if you got kids that are sitting in line, you know, for one all the time. I mean, they trust me, I've been to a couple of museums with my kids and they have simulators, and we want to be on that, you know. So if you got a bunch of them, then that'll keep them going.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

You know, we can add things to simulations that uh that we have. You know, with if you want to get in G Force, you can use some scraps, you can use air pressure, other things to try to simulate G-Force. We're not gonna we're not gonna do, you know, nine G's. No. But if I had give a kid uh three G's or four, that's a sensory. That's a real feeling. You know, when you pull four G's, you know it.

unknown 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

You can tell the wheels are turning in Vern's head right now. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just need the money. Yeah. Well, the time.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah. I mean, it's amazing what we've, in my opinion, what we've done for very little money. Yeah. You know, the intern program is, yeah, that's a chunk of money, but that's that's going to uh the students. All 95% of that money goes to the students. Uh, the Kane Foundation funds, a little few of the parts and whatnot, but a good portion is is is going to the students. And that's where we want it to go.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

That's what you need, that's what kids need. I mean, my daughter's in in college and she works full-time, but she works at a grocery store, which has nothing to do with what she's going to school for. Hopefully. You know, if she could intern somewhere that where she was going to intend to work and get paid doing it, I mean, to keep her alive, it's not like they're getting rich or anything, but you know, they put food on the table and gas in the car.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Well, yeah. Well, you know, if you give scholarships to people, uh, to schools or to the college students, they're just doing the same thing that they're doing now, as they're going to class, they're doing small projects, they're doing a lot of memorization and regurgitation, and the projects aren't real involved and and don't require a lot out of them.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Whereas here you're you're giving the students a scholarship plus because they're using that money is is to teach them how to work in industry.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

And they're and they're finishing up with a purpose. Like they have a purpose and they have a goal and they're and they're achieving that goal, hopefully, and and they're and they're getting that sense of pride and everything that comes with with making something like that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Well, it's and it's interesting to watch the students grow. I mean, you can see visual changes or changes in the students as they go through the program. They get more excited about what they're doing, they learn more detail, uh, they're more enthused about going into engineering. And you can go out and be an engineer and do CAD work for the next 20 years. And it's repetitive. And there's some students that they'll do that and they'll be happy. But an engineer should be really wanting to solve problems. And solving problems is is what an engineer should do. And the tougher the problem, the more confidence you get to take on the next problem. And you're gonna fail sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

It's just there's some projects that's where a lot of the learning takes place.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Oh, yeah. But even so, I mean, you've got a job and you've got an important project, you may fail in it because the way it was designed, that you had no control over it, or how the customer asked for it, or whatever. And you just have to accept that. And as long as you've got the confidence to say, all right, well, that's the breaks of the game. Time that's not going to change. Yeah. I'm gonna go out and still tackle the tough jobs. And but the tough jobs are the ones you remember.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

And and same as the tougher classes, I think, in my case anyway, the tougher classes are the ones I did better in and the ones you I remember.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Well, I never attempted even an easy physics class, so I'll take your word on the tough ones. But we have uh taken a goodly bit of your time this morning. All right.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Yeah, Bern. I really appreciate everything that you guys you do for this place. I mean, it's an amazing job that you guys do over here. And I'm seriously to see these, you know, and that's something that people can see when they come on the tour. It is. They could see these guys working in here, you know, and you could see. I don't know, they they don't always look like they're enthusiastic because they're kind of you know, they're right in the middle of doing something. But when I got to sit down and talk to them about it, I mean I was really blown away by how that's just their enthusiasm for it.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

It's a good group, and and you know, working as a team is very important, and they're warning that. And they're this group particularly is is working very well as a team. We have two good weeds, and and they're kind of encouraging people to work together, and it's it's working. Well, it all starts at the top. Yeah, well, right. But it you know, we're just part of a museum. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's we're doing well, but everybody in this darn museum is doing very well. And uh, you know, I've been to a lot of museums around the world and and Dutzford and REF Museum, and most of them on the East Coast, and we do things that other museums don't do, and we do it in a better fashion than most museums do. It's alive. It's it's it's it's a wedding and our docent are superb, our gift shop is uh amazing in what they do, and uh having the airplanes all fly and no ropes and and all that. It's it's just we do so many things different and and it shows.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

It's it's all a special place. Yeah, it's all made up of guys like you and women like you. I mean, just it's what makes this place tick.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

So it's everybody's doing their thing, and that's great.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

All right, Vern. Well keep going doing what you're doing. We really appreciate it, and thanks for sitting out with us. All right.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Thanks for the time, Vern. All right. Well, being a part partial inhabitant of Vernland and uh getting to hang out back here with the N3N uh really enhanced the appreciation I already had from being a docent with what goes on back here, but spending a whole shift. And you know, you mentioned the the energy the the interns have back there.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

Yeah, it was uh, you know, like I said, I don't get over here that often. So you have a real job. Well, yeah, and you know, it's just it's a walk. I mean, I'm I'm on ladders all day and stuff. So every once in a while I like to come over here, but usually, you know, like I said, they're buried in their projects, so there's just a bunch of people kind of sitting around. Looks like they're doing the same thing over and over again. Yeah, they're on a computer, they're doing this or that. But have them come over and and to explain what they're doing and then and then have them well. The curve brain. Yeah, you know, I mean, I sat on, and it was on a computer, so you know, all the prompts were on a keypad, which is weird. We were trying to think of how do we start the airplane and and all that. But their enthusiasm for I mean, they were just man, they were just excited to absorb any bit of information that I can give them, you know. And if I kind of they had an idea of what something was, and I went, no, it's a little bit like, oh, really, really? Oh, okay. Great. You know, and I mean they're writing notes and it's just cool. I mean, it's it's really neat to see, you know, young people, oh my god, I'm saying the words, young people. Umer people, you know, that are really um enthusiastic and very um just a hundred percent into what they're they're doing and believe in what they're doing and know that it's gonna be something great. And I mean, I'm telling you, like I I told them they're they're probably gonna have to detune the thing because they were going to the nth degree. And I mean, you're gonna get people that are never even gonna be able to fire that airplane up. Because they won't do wait a minute, uh, you know, you've got to be doing three different things at you know at the same time to get it to get it to fire up.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

That's why you have a checklist.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

Well, I know, but it's still and everything. You know, and I don't know exactly how awesome, you know, realistic it's gonna get, but I mean they're they're on the right track. And so it's just cool. If you know all the stuff that goes on around here, I mean, the different simulators, the the to see somebody, you know, on a tour and they'll put a kid in the link trainer and have them spin that thing around. And you know, it it's it's something it's one thing to come to a museum and see things. It's another thing to be able to get into something and do something. You know, I mean that really especially by the time they get over here, because I mean usually The kids have been dragged around for two two and a half hours.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Can we go to McDonald's?

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Yeah, and then they get over here and then it just changes the whole complexity of the museum for them. It's a real big catalyst for that.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

It does, it does. And I've I've seen I've seen the the kid who's kind of fidgety and hungry, and all of a sudden put your feet on the pedals. Yeah. And and here you go.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

And then you got you know, Vern's one that's just heading it up. I mean, he's he's constantly when you talk to him, he's constantly got gears turning. You know, he just he's just one of those guys that just you just know that it it there's always something going on in his head and and improvements and in generally speaking, you know, he he talked about failing you know sometimes, but for the most part, all the stuff that he's been doing over here, it hasn't been failure. You know, it's just been progress going forward. So I mean it's just it's just a great deal. I mean, you know, to get into the N3N and all the progress we saw with that, you know, where it just started out as a skeleton and just oh, we'll be able to put a kid in there and the kick a bang. Bang will stick around. To turn it into a flying experience.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

And and again, I tried a little bit of a ham-handed intro uh about ten or more episodes ago of the N3N because this is something that I've had a lot of fun with. And then to be able to put an honest to God pilot in there, yeah, I thought that was cool. I I believe you have a license or license says. Yeah, I know. So I mean, more licenses than I have.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Yeah, no, it's cool. I mean, like I said, I spend a lot of time over here. You know, I'll get bored, and you can't always just jump in an airplane and take it out of here. So, you know, you come over here and if there's no nobody doing it, yeah, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Well, I I I say I have to, you know, I have to be current.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

Plus, they don't let you land on powers out here, you know, powers boulevard, but I could do it on this.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Um, yeah, we we landed at uh But's Army Airfield the other day. Oh yeah, and I think that's frowned on too.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

Yeah, I think so. It probably wouldn't be really great. So well is that uh that's amazing to sit down with Vern, but we got things coming up. Matter of fact, we got the big presentations coming.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Truly. Yeah. Been reading through it. Rob Gale in the spotlight once again. Once again, and hopefully the uh the video gods are with me now that uh uh we've we've got more experience and and that. Uh having what's the day on that? The 18th of July. Two weeks after Independence Day.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

And what's the what's the presentation?

SPEAKER_02 46:49

WAF and WASP. I WAFS and WASP. WAFS and WASP. Say that too fast. Well, add add woofed into it, and then you then you're really good. Yeah. No, it's so this one's for the ladies. This is for the ladies, and uh I noticed somebody changed it on the on the screen in the in the entryway. It's flying the hot aircraft. I call it flying the hot ships because that's what the women said. Yeah. I get to fly the hot ships, I get to fly a P-38 or a B-25. And there were slightly over a hundred women during World War II who flew combat aircraft. No, they didn't fly in combat, but they they flew everything from Mustangs to the B-29 to the Black Widow. And these are some really special women. Um, fortunately, there's there's some good documentation, but I think it's just gonna be cool.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

So this would be a good one if you got daughters or granddaughters or anything you want to come out and see this presentation. And then after the presentation, we'll be flying the B-25, which again, that's why it's probably gonna be my favorite event.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:04

I actually get to strap up the airplane and get up there and put on a little show.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Yeah, well, and low passes. Yeah. Low passes are always cool. Yeah, it's always the best. So that's the 18th, but two weeks before that, we have a big Independence Day uh celebration here. And I'm really looking forward to that. And uh I think we'll gotta think.

SPEAKER_04 48:28

Yeah, I think it's right before this comes out, or right after this comes out. Yeah, maybe 4th July. Yeah, we got all kinds of cool stuff on on tap for that. You know, again, we'll be flying the B-25 and two TBMs. Um, we're gonna be up over Green Mountain Falls doing uh a pass for their celebration up there, and then we'll come back here and we're gonna beat up the the airfield a little bit. So you're gonna want to be here to see that.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

That'll be great.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Um, also we got Pikes Peak Regional Air Show, PPRAirshow.org. Tickets are on sale, and I'm telling you, we got the schedule set. We're gonna be announcing that here shortly, and everything's looking forward to that. I mean, it's gonna be the best time of the year, September 19th and 20th, weather-wise around here anyway. Yeah, truly it's usually it's the best month. I mean, it's just my favorite month out here. So we're really looking forward to all that. So, if you got anything else? Not at the moment, and I know you have to get some airplane working on those airplanes. We've got some flying going on today, so I gotta go get that done. So I'd like to thank Vern Patterson for sitting down with us today, William Stevenson behind the glass, my venerable partner Rob Gale, and myself, Scott Claire's venerable.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I like that. That's right. Do stay safe. Thanks.