Beyond the Episode Rebecca Birrell Live

Welcome, seekers

This week’s episode comes from one of our live conversations a follow-up to our previous podcast with Rebecca Birrell.

We dive deeper into her work, answer your questions, explore what’s unfolding next, and, as always, enjoy plenty of lively moments in between. These live sessions are where the conversation really opens up and this one is no exception.

And a special shout-out to Anastasia Kashian for being part of the magic.

Pull up a chair and join us.

Continue to follow her work 

Theinnerwitch.com

She has an amazing app as well for all things magical make sur  to download it and explore the magical 

Themysterychannel.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:07

So let's jump in.

unknown 0:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Beck. Yes. Who is Beck?

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Oh my gosh, start with the big questions.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Okay. Um, I suppose at my core, design and art and the esoteric and the mysteries of life seem to be the riv recurring themes that uh make up, you know, exactly who I am and what I'm interested in. So, and and art in all its forms, because magic is an art, the way that we, you know, live, the way that things that we buy, the things that we dress ourselves in, every aspect of our lives is part of the creation of you know what we're creating every day. And that is an art form, whether it's fine art or whether it's um other aspects of your life. And I think that you know, for me, magic, reading, uh, understanding the mysteries of the world, nature around us, working and connecting with those sorts of things are all part of that um artistic and creative lifestyle. Is that enough?

SPEAKER_04 1:07

I know there's more to me, probably, but there is always more, but uh you you gave a great account. So for many people, this is a difficult question.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So but it is a different, it's a really big question. You have to really, especially for 6 a.m. with when we talk my coffee drunk.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Yeah, make sure that you don't fall asleep. No, this is it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

It's like I wasn't live.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

So I saw that you that you published um a book recently uh back. Yeah. Tell us uh a little bit uh about that and how that came about. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well, of course, our first connection was with the Petite Italia, so um that sort of is a lovely full circle to be talking to you again about it. Um, yes, with Kathleen Matthews and I, we have just co-authored a book which is about to be released in January 26 in the UK, I believe. And of course, the cards really appeal to me because I have this very interesting, I'm drawn to both fortune telling and the esoteric side of cards and reading and divination. And for me, I see that deck or that system as being a very pivotal time in between the two. And of course, Atea being the um father of cardomancy, you know, I'm you know so it's such a huge aspect of my life that that particular thing really crosses over the two areas that I find I even in my readings with clients, I'm mixing the two areas of fortune telling, and some people really don't like linking fortune telling into being a reader, or particularly with the tarot, they get very funny about the fact that you know you're wasting the power of the tarot on fortune telling. But there is a link there. This is an understanding of people who want to come to a reader and get some idea of the trajectory of their predicament or where they're going. And then, of course, you can also use it to course correct and do all those wonderful things that um we love cards for, and that's the most powerful way to use cards, I think. Anyway, I digress from the book, so I was very interested in that particular period and that system and what Italia was doing. Also, um, aesthetically, I absolutely loved the cards with the typography on them, and so primarily I had produced a deck for myself to use, and Kathleen had a course which had been up on somewhere on the website with a a group that had gone under or it had come down. And so when we started talking, her her material was not in um a format that could be used. And we originally were just going to put it online, and I helped, you know, get that into a sort of as as a designer and um and an artist, and you know, I I'm quite good with technology, I have an Aquarius rising, and I tend to pick up so I said, I think I can help you get this online. And lo and behold, it it ended up being um picked up by a couple of publishers at the time, and then we ended up going with one, and um and it's now going to be released as a book and and course and deck, and the in the book or is it's a full course, but it's also a complete translation of his original text. And of course, she's written that in such an incredible, engaging way. It's very funny, it's very approachable, but it's very comprehensive. And of course, I mean, I haven't seen the final um cards. I know what I sent them, but you never know until you actually see the end product. But of course, they're beautiful as well. So we're very excited to be really bringing this system, which was, you know, it's relatively obscure. I think there might be five people in the world who want to buy this.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

I won't buy it.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

I pre-ordered, yeah. I pre-ordered that like months ago.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

You have to find out an honor to have to be.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

So no, it's uh it is relatively relatively obscure, but it really does speak to people who are into what we're into, right? Because it was so pivotal and such an incredibly complex yet simple system. So it'll be wonderful to make this available to people because you know, you think if that knowledge you know doesn't keep going on, then these systems can get lost.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah. You know, and and the big advantage, you know, and this is also why people have to buy your book, you know, the petite ethia is a deck that you can have on your side dish or that you can take along with whatever because those meanings are on the cause. You have to be able to think as in a concept, but I think that it's the value of being a good reader in Carol Messi anyway, but you don't have to memorize everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, it's really interesting. And you know, I mean, some of his philosophy or system is very is actually way more complex than probably it needs to be. Yet you can just get some very quick and very accurate um reads out of it, too. So um it's very it's a great book. Like she's she's written such a beautiful uh way to uh to you know really dive into these cards and connect with them. So I'm looking forward to seeing it when it's in my hands. I do have my version, but which I use a lot. Yeah, it's always scary when it goes off to a publisher.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

That will be something to do to look forward to.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

So yeah, I'm very excited about it. Like I said, I ordered mine months ago.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Fantastic. I'm so excited. I hope they look really lovely.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

When is it due? January of uh January.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Um that was the last uh email that we got. Um originally I think it was going to be around Christmas, and we were like, oh, we don't know, Christmas launch is probably not the best timing, so I'm actually quite happy it's gonna be in January. Uh of course it takes forever to get to Australia, so we'll probably get them six months later. You'll all have to tell me what they're like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

We won't tell you. We should look, we always feature everyone's book in our TikTok and like the book club and stuff, so in the newsletters.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

So and how fun is TikTok? Like, honestly, it's bought out my inner movie maker, I'm sure. Yes, this is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Oh, it's so true. It makes keeps you on your toes to be like the best, like making everything perfect, like with the movie thing and putting your videos up and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, yeah, and getting it getting things into very short snippets because you know, sort of used to, I don't know, my my age, we used to like doing a lot, a lot of like longer form content. You know, I look at my girls, they're you know, late teens, and you know, anything that goes past like 10 seconds and they're out of there. So you've got to really think about how is this existing in you know 20 seconds or less.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Yes, you know what I find interesting though, TikTok, I'm sure you see it, is that yeah, you have to engage someone within the first like five seconds, but yet people who go live are live for like eight hours.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Oh, I know, and then you you come across them and there's nothing happening, just like do something. I suppose they dip in and out, maybe because there's no way they're staying for eight hours. Watching someone just like say nothing and shuffle cards. Yeah, yes, yes, yeah. Although that can be relaxing, that can be relaxing.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

They're gonna meditative, like having background noise. That's why I've never done a live yet, because I feel the pressure by like being interesting for eight hours.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Interesting for one hour could be the challenge. Oh, that's too. That too.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

So Becky, you you just uh said before we start recording that you are living somewhere on the countryside there. So do you do your work mostly online then, or do you receive clients at your home? And what uh tell us uh how your day is uh sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Well, I'm actually sitting in my reading room, not my office, um, because I have this massive window in my office and the sun comes up into it, and so it's very hard to be on my computer this time of day. I s I live in an island which is off the bottom of Tasmania, uh, bottom of Australia called Tasmania. And um, it's not really countryside, but it is regional because it's quite small. Like we have a population in my city of 72,000 people or something like that. I think relatively to a European country, it's actually quite big, but you know, for us at all. And it's not really country, but it is regional. And so, yes, I have people that come clients come to my house uh where I work, but I also do a lot of reading online as well. So I do have clients all over the world. Um thank goodness for the internet, and and you know, I just video call them and and so that you know, this is what we were talking about how wonderful it is that the internet can connect people globally, um, you know, and I can you know connect with you and I can you know be in conferences and all sorts of things all over the world. So it's a beautiful place to live, yet where I'm still connected to everybody. But yeah, it's um and it's a really beautiful state, it's quite wild still. There's a lot of uh rainforest and a lot of untouched wilderness, so it's it's lovely, it's very connected to the earth.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

You need some wilderness to perform magic, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah, well, of course, yes, and um yes, but and of course, uh I mean magic is is something that I am you know really uh about. It's it forms a huge part of my lifestyle, and so I think when you're in a place where you can so easily connect with nature makes that just you know so much easier to be connected in at one liquid energies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

And do you promote yourself as a magician or how how how do people know you as a cartomancer or what's uh yeah, well, I I do call myself a professional cardamancer, and I also call myself a witch.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

And I'm very, very I'm really about reclaiming that word because it's been vilified, as we all know, for so long, when really it is about empowerment and connection and wisdom, and particularly I think when women had empowerment and wisdom and were connected and could work with energy. That was very, very uh threatening, I think, at the time when witches were banned at the stake and um and and vilified, and a lot of that was around um land and ownership, and that you know they were single independent women sometimes. Sometimes they were just you know midwives or or healing people. But that witch wound runs deep, it runs for centuries, and um, you know, people still I I still see people like, but you must be a a a good witch. And there is really I'm a good person, so that makes me, you know, you know, not want to hex or curse anybody. But there, you know, magic is grey, it's not black or white, nothing is is black or white, everything is this polarity. Baby steps for reclaiming that word because still a lot of people hold that witch with a very real threat, fear fear and gen like genetic memory of being killed for it.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Oh, yes, yeah, that's deep in the DNA.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, very, very deep. And and you know, the doctrinization of um religions around the world, you know. I mean, look at today, we're we are no further down the track of progressiveness there. In fact, you know, there's more and more threat where you live. I'm very thankful that I live in Australia and we're not experiencing the depth of that bigotry and division down here.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah, it's true. There's still some states where it's illegal to read cards. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's lucky too, because like then even there, because I was gonna say a lot of the places here where I was actually telling Bjorn this that a lot of people practice like without telling family or friends or telling people we call it like coming out of the broom closet when you're finally ready to, you know, get yourself out there. But it seems like you didn't have that issue then. You were able to just practice.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

No, I didn't, and you know, I had it's very it was very, very accepted and normal within my family. My grandmother was a psychic and she spent a like you know, her entire well, all of my childhood that I can remember. She was automatic writing and using the pendulum, and we'd go around there and she'd be, you know, reading us what she'd downloaded or you know, written and and you know, the the pendulum was actually a key. You know, this was very normal for us. And and you know, there was uh, you know, my mum and dad both had, you know, around the time that I was born, so that was the 70s, you know, they'd been to the Alpha Mind Dynamics courses, and they were all into the white light healing and passing that down to us as well. So so this is something that I had grown up with in my family. It was very normal, the occult was very normal, the um, you know, seeking the mysteries of life, very normal. And so I was for me, that's just normality. Uh, and I I'm often quite shocked when people think that that is like evil, because it couldn't be further from evil in my mind. Yeah, no. So yeah, it's it's very interesting. So, yes, I was very lucky, I think, to um to have such, you know, to not feel guilty about it, to not think that there was something wrong with that. And by the time I got my first tarot deck, which was when I was 17, that was just, you know, the start of another love affair with with cards. But my grandmother at the time, you know, we as I said, live in quite a sort of isolated town. And she has well, she's said now, she lived till 100, but she'd never been out of Tasmania. And, you know, at the time there was no support, there was no internet. So a lot of people, and you know, possibly she may have had mental health issues as well, but she had had shock treatment therapy in her life, so there was a very big misunderstanding of her, you know, in that generation of what she was doing, and no support, and no way of her even understanding, you know, what what was happening to her. So, yeah, there's there's goods and bads, you know, even though it's been in my family, there's also been a lot of um vilification as well through that. And that is, you know, that does go through genetic memory. So I hope I'm just being able to have the freedom to be what I am. Yeah, you know, that might be healing generation on both directions in the past, past, not that there is a past and the future. It's like always a loop, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

So oh, oh yes, yes, definitely. Yeah, that's amazing, especially how you're bringing it forward today. Even though, like, yeah, shock therapy that she was still able to share it with you, not fearful after shock therapy. That speaks to her as a strong woman.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. And you know, we are, aren't we? I mean, you know, resilience is it runs deep. Yeah, it runs as deep as the witch wound.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yes, the witch, yes, that's but that's really great then. Like, because that's what they're a lot of people now, yeah, healing that witch wound, using the cards to heal the witch wound, but also then myths to also heal that witch wound.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

So I know, and and owning it again, and you know, hopefully it will be, you know, my my hope is that it will be seen as a legitimate and beautiful practice that it is. Then you practice holistically then with the I think that you know, my work um over the years has evolved. I think it's very intuitive. Um, I just, you know, people have often asked me, when when did you first find out you're a witch? And it's like it you don't find out, you just are. For me, it was just uh just always new, always had an interest in the esoteric and the occult, and um just just naturally grew into a practice which was connected and you know and worked with magic in all forms. And now I think my work my practice has really evolved. It's a lifestyle, it's not even a practice anymore, it's the way I live and the way I interact with the world. Um but it has evolved as um as I've gotten older, I've been doing, you know, a lot of much more deep practices. And you know, I also look to the the deep mystical practices as well. I've had some very, very deep spiritual and mystical experiences through my life, you know. I I think that that just sort of colours the way that you interact with the world because you're seeing the world in a very different way to some what some people experience.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yes, definitely, and that's always fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

So, and and if people uh seek you out for magical practices, what do they ask? What what what are so average questions? Is it something like okay, I have health issues, or I my husband is uh not a good man, or something uh what what what is the average question? And and how do you uh bring solutions?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Well, I don't generally actually I'm not really a witch for hire. I this is more of a personal practice for me. So, but what I do do is I teach it because I like to empower others to be able to be to be able to use their own power. But I have just launched one program which was pretty interesting, I thought. I just recently like I've used astrology through tarot and in my magical practice because I use a lot of planetary magic. But I recently, um, a few years ago did a big deep dive and thought, right, I'm going to actually like nail the natal chart reading as well. So I started that. And through that process, so now I'm a astrologer as well, like a natal chart astrologer, you know, and just like you actually use it for some sort of practical client work. I I've developed a program now which is called Chiron Alchemy, which fuses uh astrology and transformational magic. So basically, I I really realized through going through this myself, like I'm about to turn 54. And women particularly, like everyone has their chiron return at 50. But women at that time are going through a lot of personal changes as well. You know, we're hitting perimenopause. If we have children, they're sort of growing up, you know, and and something happens at that time where you know you really shift into your own power, but it can be quite disconcerting. And it happens at the same time as chiron return. And I sort of looked at this and thought, my God, is this chiron return or is this like literally, you know, menopause, or what what is going on here? A lot of wounds come up, not just Chiron, but also like a lot of like your own personal where you've given away your power over the years. Very transformational for women at this time. And I've noticed that a lot of women are not uh are struggling to cope with with things with life, you know, they're leaving their husbands, they're you know, leaving their jobs, they're like really struggled. So um I developed a program which is um basically looking at the chiron placement in your chart and analyzing it, analyzing where those deep, deep wounds are, and then developing a uh transmutation through a magical practice. So it does use magic and transformational magic using sympathetic magic to uncover what the placement of chiron is doing and transmuting it so that you can then like go, okay, well, I've I've healed those wounds, and that will then have flow and effects to help through, you know, the rest of that perimenopausal change. So that's um that's something that I've just just put together, and I really thought about it for the last you know four years as I went through that sort of turmoil of um identity, because of course my Chiron is in Aries, which is like where it is for you know most people my age. Um and and how that then informs that that sort of pivot in your life anyway. So that's a product that combines the two. Other than that, I don't tend to do spells for hire, but um, I do sell products and things like I've just launched a Venus oil, which um uses planetary magic and uh and things like that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

And do you get antsy?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yes, well, I I think just getting connected is a really good thing. I've got an app and it's free to download, and there's a lot of information on that. And then, of course, there's in-app purchases where people can actually do a sort of development um or a course or something. But also I feel like there's another thing which I'm, you know, percolating, and this is the inner fire. Because also I feel, you know, women have these hot flushes at this time, and I I have this suspicion that it's because we're not really used to having so much there's no. There's no outlet for the inner fire because we have generally made ourselves fairly small to fit in throughout our lives. And that's through a lot of conditioning and a lot of different sort of you know societal expectations around women as from from a very young age. So I'm just investigating whether there's a a sort of a way that working with the elements could help with that sort of releasing of heat and introducing more balance energetically. So that's just something that I've been toying with. That's uh at very sort of embryonic stages.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

You know what I was thinking about what happens if you sweep up the heat.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, well, the reason is that I started doing this, I've been doing um a few years I've been working with um Jason Miller and doing a lot of, you know, he has uh a practice which is sort of fairly, I think there's uh like some strong roots in Tibetan Buddhist sort of practices. And one of the, and uh the reason I worked this like I was like, ah, there's something here about the heat which is like not working for me at this age, that inner heat practice, and that's exactly what we were doing. And I was like, I couldn't continue with it because it was literally just making me too hot. So I thought I need somewhere to I need some some way to transmute this. Yeah, yeah, but he is amazing, and you know, I've been taking well, I have uh a few years ago took the sorcery of Hecate. I don't know if you've heard of that. Yes, that shifted everything. Talk about deepening practice. I think all of my practice had been very sort of elemental work, you know, materia nature. I what I hadn't really developed was working with deities or anything, which is really, I think, no, for me, I sort of see that as being the crossover between witchcraft and sorcery. And that is, you know, using uh a look, uh it's just it was a course or a program. Yeah, you know, I've since gone on to do the advanced one and the whiz of it, and just so the the deepening that your practice can get from from getting something like that at the right time. I wouldn't do it too early because it's very, you know, you've got to be quite devoted to it. Just uh really stay next level.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Yeah, you know. But what you say there with that uh fire burning inside, you know, there is this famous uh mystic, uh a woman from she was like a nun, and she was yeah, she she lived like uh in Antwerp and close to Brussels, it's Hardaway from Antwerp, and she yeah, she is really famous here, and she said somehow the same thing, and she called it the spark within. Yeah, yeah, of course, in connection with with the big uh light giver.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

So and it's interesting because of course I've like worked with energy for so long, but then but then you know you you you have this shift where you've got to adapt to you know having I don't know, it's like you've suddenly got m way more fire within you than you ever had, and you don't really know how to outlet it. So it's it's it's really interesting, yeah, conundrum for you know, and and I mean I can recognize the energy of it, but just you know, a lot of women can't because they don't practice these sorts of elemental practices, yeah. Yeah, yeah, within the seasons too.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

There's no outlet to that maybe not life forced if you can direct your energy.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yes, exactly. And that's sort of what I'm trying to sort of work around. Like, what is the best way to direct this? How is this, you know, how can this actually be really useful? Like, how can this be managed in a way that is super empowering? And where where will that go? You might be wrong.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

I might be wrong.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

No, no, I think it's great though, because that's how you investigate these things, see how where it goes, and then lead others to it is just by doing it, practicing it. Yeah, yeah, like you said, scientific experiments, you know. Elemental, elemental experiments.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

And that's also science, no, like alchemy is like science, but but the overall science, you know, this is like magically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Oh that's exactly what it is, and um uh yeah, because it is like we it is our chemical, it's this like you know, the simmer is no longer a simmer, it's not a slow burn anymore. It's like okay, this needs to be alchemized.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

You know, and it's it's layered, you know. We have like a spiritual insight in that, but also a factual, you know. And I don't think that you can even come closer to what life is. And I value both things, you know. I'm also a scientific mind. But science is not be all end-all, you know, we're more than just the add of numbers.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Well, history does history does tell us that science uh isn't the be all and end all because we keep making scientific discoveries. And if we look at where quantum physics is now, you know, super exciting because it's starting to really explain magic. And and that's you know, something which is a lot of people have used different words to describe magic, you know, it is it is quantum physics, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Yeah, yeah, these are all you know, it's it all has to do with each other.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

The same with with the alchemists. People are thinking okay that they were only were doing some some stupid uh symbolical uh stuff and all that, but besides that, in their view, but they really did a lot with science and they invented a lot of uh things people now work with on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

So yes, I know exactly. I know, and when you think of like the brilliant minds that were killed for their beliefs, and you know, uh I I was just listening to a thing on Papatia and um, you know, you think of the Library of Alexandria, you know, there's so much that we've lost, you know, ancient Egypt, you know, the knowledge there that we are only trying to understand now. This all really stems from you know, humans limited belief system at the time and whether they could prove it or whether they agreed with it religiously, you know, there's there's so much that we could have been, you know, so much more advanced as a race or as a you know species. Incredible.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Yes, indeed. So I heard you uh mention back a few times that you had like a mystical experience. What is a mystical experience for you in general?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Um well, I have I have them all the time, like not all like all the time, but like I've had many. But um, gosh, I don't know which one to tell you now. I'm trying to think. Okay, so I'll tell you one which was interesting when um I was in my early 20s, and this was certainly not my first one because I also have a lot of ghost experiences. So clearly in my childhood there was you know, a like a door that was open there. Because, you know, I mean, when I look back at every single house I lived in, it had a ghost in it, which sort of indicates that perhaps it wasn't the house, it was me, right? Or you know, my family being quite open to it. So um, so I have had m multiple um, you know, like conversational experiences with with spirit. But this one was interesting. I was in my early 20s and I had a a a partner at the time who um who just became convinced that he was going to pass away. And and we know we split up and you know stayed very close friends, and he did actually pass away. This all happened within about six months. And then he when I hear about near-death experiences, this was exactly like the experience I had, even though I did not have a near-death experience, so I was still trying to like avoid the sun that's coming into my eyes. Um, and so on the on this one morning of his funeral, I was in that liminal state. I get a lot of information in that in that liminal state pre-waking up. And he sort of came in and sat on the foot of the bed and we started talking, and then the whole room just turned into this absolutely incredible ball of white light, which was um just the most intense and beautiful feeling of love. Incredible, unconditional love. It was just unbelievable. And, you know, I went into the light and had that the full experience of what you hear as an NDE, where I came out with immense knowledge and insight and just felt like, you know, everything shifted. My whole outlook and like was like a veil was lifted from my mind. I could just, I just sort of had all of this insight and knowledge. Of course, it doesn't last, unfortunately. You hope it does. And I think probably most of my life has been spent trying to experience something close to that again. But it shifted everything. And from that moment on, I never once was afraid of death. I never once it really just shifted the outlook that I had for the rest of my life, I think, because there was an insight into, you know, it was really peeking through the veil. And uh so that sort of, you know, did nothing to squash my already interest in the occult and the esoteric. And so yes, it sort of expanded from that moment on. But I've had many, many experiences like that. Yeah, it's um it was beautiful, it was really beautiful, and and I think that was sort of beyond that. Because that was definitely being like on the other side, like really sort of crossing that divide and coming back and not having had dyed to do it. So that was pretty cool. That's amazing. Yeah, special tickets. I know. I wish I could do it like that. You're not doing a dishes. Wouldn't it be awesome? So, and then you know, I mean, I've done a lot of work, a lot of spiritual work, a lot of development over my life, and you know, I now sort of I've gone through the moments of relentless synchronicity to get to the point where I'm sort of more in flow permanently, and that's a really interesting experience too, like going through sort of pathworking and then working with you know, the magical symbols, of course, that get you, and then realizing that the universe is constantly communicating to you in symbols and in timing and in you know, within nature, and that's that's been really um really lovely too.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

We we we have talked uh with with with other guests, and I definitely want to hear your ID on that. So we are living in special times, both for good and for ill, but maybe that's always the case. How as having a creative profession, publishing and all that? What do you think about the AI and all that? What's what's how does it affect you and how will that affect us in the long run?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

It's so interesting. I think it's it's definitely having an effect on some some careers. It's I feel there is it's multi-layered at the moment. There's no regulation, and should there be? I don't know. But I think what's happening is that a lot of people are using it and then realizing its limitations as well. So, you know, if you're using it for creative work, you can always tell it's AI. You know, it always looks like it's AI created. So I don't think it's taking the place of our artists because there is something there which is disconnected. You only have to try and do a hand, for example, to see the limitations of AI. Because they want hands or body parts. In terms of writing, you know, it's a great tool for inspiration. And I think that we have only just like, you know, touched the surface of how to use it. I think the bigger issue is the environmental effect of AI as well. Apparently, it uses an enormous amount of water. And I think, you know, there's deep sort of, you know, I mean why is I think I don't want to get into conspiracy theory, but I think that there's like some connection there between the early days of Elon Musk and and Trump and like where they were what their what their plan actually was with an AI perspective, um, when you look at it through that lens. Um and I, you know, I have I have friends who are using it for, you know, to help them with their writing. I think the danger there is that it does pull from a lot of other sources, and so you're not even aware when that's plagiarizing somebody else. And so if you're relying on that, you're suddenly like not perhaps being or perhaps all these creatives are dulling down their actual creation, their actual creative work by accidentally drawing too much from other sources, you know, and not creating original ideas. So, yeah, it has an effect. It's just like TikTok apparently is more back to TikTok, more damaging to the um brain than what was it, like alcohol, I think, because it shortens the attention span so much. And I think that's what we're seeing with AI too. There will be effects on creativity where you know, if we're not firing with new ideas and and new creations, then you know, if we're relying on everybody else's existing creations, there's got to be a long-term effect from that in terms of where our where our species goes creatively.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

No, I'm I'm not uh afraid uh of AI, but it will be competition because not everyone can write a book.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

But we we have to go through that phase that people are really fed up with that and that they really want to have quality.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yes, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Therefore, we have to be stiff necks and do whatever we were doing, creating from out of your heart. But yeah, for many people there will be tough times, I think the next two, three years. But we have to give people her hands firm on the steering wheel, and we will stay out, but stay authentic. That's always but uh a lot of books will come out now. A lot of yeah, no, I'm worried. The only thing I'm worried about is like how copyright and all that.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, and I think what happens is that I mean, as I said, AI, I think we'll be we will get better at recognizing when something is you know written by AI, just like you know, it's pretty obvious, you know, that when something has been designed and drawn or created by AI. Um, and there are a lot of books already out there which are AI, and probably right now we don't have the knowledge as to, you know, is this to immediately recognize it. So, yes, there will be the that competition. But then there's the plagiarism as well, which is um, you know, I mean that's gosh, creatives work hard enough to to make a living, let alone how true.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

But that has been the case always. You know, you you do now publish a book or you teach courses, you can know for sure that within one or two years or another will run off with your work or benefit from it. No, but the time span that they can do it is much shorter, so you can't go keep ahead of competition, you see.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah, exactly. And you know, already that you already have to be if you're a content creator, you already have to be one or two or three steps ahead of everybody because you know, otherwise it's just yeah, you it's just it's like a constant sort of race, isn't it? Sometimes with the sort of social media um side of things.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

But I think that anyway, that in on the long run, that will that probably can diminish itself because AI can only be smarter if people put a lot of new information in AI. People don't have the intrinsic intrinsic uh willingness to create or to sharpen IDs, you will degenerate. So the that you put in that will get weaker and weaker. Whilst the people who fight for it and and um uh compete with IDs and sharpen and have real competition, they will get stronger.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yes, exactly. Yeah, true. Now you can see outside the window.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Oh no, always beautiful view. Well, admit new ideas too, because if people aren't just relying on the AI or just relying on what's done before are recycling ideas, there's really no a lot of not new ideas, you know. Most people are just like relying on what's already out there and changing it around instead of coming up with something new. They're seeing that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah, and I think we've seen that throughout history anyway. I think you know, maybe they say like there's only what however many songs and um people just do them all in different ways. But you know, uh but there is still creative thought that comes out of synthesizing other stuff. And so if we shut off those sides of ourselves and only use AI, then we're you know, what what fires together wires together, and we will lose it. Use it or lose it.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

We just definitely see that and we will be fine. Yeah. So and what what is the stuff you like to read yourself?

SPEAKER_01 38:51

I read occult books.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Are you a big Crowley fan, or what do you like, or Papus or Blavatsky? What what is it? What do you like?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah, well, uh gosh, I read I tend to read books on tarot and magic, and um, and then I'll go down and and astrology as well now. So basically I I don't read um at you know I'm just like constantly just learning. I also I I review books um and decks for Tarbi as well. So um some of my time is reading books to review, and um and at the moment, oh gosh, I've got so many on the go, but I've just bought the tarot architect from Lon Milo Duque. Oh really, I mean, I love him and wonderful, he's he's so fantastic. So looking forward to doing that. I also picked up the um Matt Orin's new one, the psychic art of tarot. He's um a lovely writer as well, and I'm sort of looking forward to I I'm constantly constantly developing my practice and seeing what other people are doing, what other people, you know, how they're approaching their practice. I think there's a lot to be done with, you know, a lot to be said for um constant professional development. Um, and and then I've got about four books that I'm reviewing. So there's no time for any novels in there.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah, no, but those are both great books. I recently read them. Yeah, fantastic. Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Is that I don't know if you read the sorry, I I've just remembered I've been reviewing um the occult tarot at the moment, which um has the most gorgeous cover, it's like made out of a beautiful um gloss on mat, so it's all black, but they're all made made out of all these pentagrams knitted together. It's really gorgeous.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

So that looks since you like occultism and all that, so did you also dive in and the life of Ethea and and the Grande Etea?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yes. Well, I'm looking exactly, and you know, as you said, Blavatsky, like there's and Crowley, and you know, there's so many rabbit holes. This is why I will never finish all the books I have. Because I pick up something and say, Oh, I have to go down that rabbit hole now and learn all about that. It's um yeah, it's never ending. And what I love is how it all starts to come together. You know, I mean, that's the beauty of the tarot deck, is that it is well, any of those systems, they all start to come together. So you can bring in your um numerology, your astrology, you know, your gematria, you your Kabbalah, you know, all of that starts to sort of speak, even you know, the magical language, the magical Hebrew language and symbols, you know, it's um it's it's so powerful when you start to see all of the layers that actually sort of how it expands out just like a fractal into all other aspects of you know existence. So, you know, this is why I think you know how tarot works, it's it's sort of, you know, there's nothing really random about shuffling a deck of cards. Because what is randomness? You know, it's um it's just the universe working in ways that we probably don't really understand or can quantify yet.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

And what is random, what you can somehow make people the the the the general the general people uh believe something like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

And it's and I I I sort of like, you know, not maybe not a lot of people, or maybe you know, in our sort of group, we do, we think like this, we ask these questions, but there are people who never think about this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

Yeah, very true. So if you were actually time travel, you would uh sit with a golden diamond bag in a day.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Oh yeah, that would be interesting. Oh my gosh. Actually, no, if I was time traveling, I'd go back to ancient Egypt. I would be really understanding the the vibration healing and you know what was going on there because I actually think that they probably had a lot more information, a lot more advanced sort of healing techniques than than but the golden dawn would be fun too.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Yeah, do what you're better, do what uh do what well done.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

But maybe we need to astral travel back there and do very well. To me, and time is really interesting. One of the interesting mystical experiences that I have had throughout life is is what I call time loops, um, where it just became really clear to me at some point that time was not linear, and I was experiencing it in a sort of ever sort of like a like a loop that just kept going round and round. And one of the really amazing, so I was already having those sorts of experiences, and then one of the the wisdom of Hecate, which I was doing with Jason Miller, had um a thing that he uses called facets of the flow. And that was sort of like a formalized way that I could then access what I was already experiencing, and that was the most amazing experience where you could literally sort of get into understanding perhaps how the universe and it's not. Time really, but how it's sort of how you interact with it. And I had this beautiful experience of like seeing life and time and past and future exactly like the nebula of a brain or something, or nebula of the sky, but or the in you know the neurons in your brain. And how you know you could move along, uh sit in one in one sort of part of that, and then see that you could change the direction, the trajectory of all the future little linking neurons. And that was actually how you could change the course-correct the future of you know your trajectory in life. And I've explained that really, really badly, but it was just a really enlightening, amazing experience to see, and that's really how magic works, it finds the path of least resistance, and so you know, you can you can sit in that space, in that metaphysical space, and okay, I'm gonna do that one. That's where I want, that's the path that I want to take, and this is how I'm gonna get there, and you can just like facilitate that through, you know. Yes, I call it magic. Other people would call it quantum physics or quantum jumping or something like that. So to have the tools to sit in that space was very cool. Amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

I've studied that through the Akashic Records is another one that does that. Oh, Junior, I'm so fascinated by the Akashic Records.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

I've and something I've delved into, and so I'm super keen to find out more about that. I listened to your podcast yesterday and I was like, oh, that sounds good. How so yes, that's another rabbit hole now. See, I can't go down them all at once. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

What about shamans?

SPEAKER_01 45:38

I feel like um, I feel like I have not understood that word. And and I feel like there's a lot of components of that that I've experienced or have done without calling it that, if that makes sense. It seems like there's that's another thing which you know I was listening to yesterday and wanted to find out more about your practice and how that works. And and you know, my dear friend Miguel, um, he has done a lot of work which practice. And I think Kathleen as well um does some incredibly intense shamanistic work. So yeah, very intrigued by that too.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

Yeah, Margaret an expert on the subject.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Ah, fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

Well, we're gonna stay in a good connection and she can do that.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yes, I'd love to know more about both those. Yeah, see where that rabbit hole goes.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Oh, yeah, and it's a fun, it's an interesting, fun rabbit hole. I actually did um dive into it more at the you know Tony's La Norman summit, how I mixed Lenorman cards with my Akashic Record practice.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

So oh, that would have been really interesting. It's a mix of cards. So I use both all the time. And uh yeah, it's a great way to work, but they work beautifully together.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Oh my gosh, yeah. So with astrology too, I'm sure you mix the systems, yeah. Or complement them.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yes, exactly. That's right. Um and yeah, because it's all connected, isn't it? Like you can't really once you once you use them as a modality, I find it difficult to separate them out. I just choose what's going to work best at that time because every system has its own voice and it will answer answer different things and work with you know certain questions better than others. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

What's your actual mindset if you read for people? Because the way I see it, you somehow shift state of mind, maybe okay. Now I'm like reading your cards.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

Do you say things to yourself or do you just or kind of change between the days, or what what's what's going on in your head?

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah, so um when I'm reading for a client, what I do generally the process is I and I explain this to them. You know, I have that like fortune teller start. So I go, I'm gonna, so I use so I do a grand tableau, and that stays on the table through the session, and that shows me where the current trajectory is in the day-to-day. It's like a big snapshot. This is what you know, this is what's going on. And then I tend to look for the pressure points in that grand tableau and how things are working in the day-to-day. And then I use tarot then. So the second half of the session, we'll draw from that and we will use the tarot to then get deeper into why is this turning up in your day-to-day, and how can we then move towards where you actually want to go here? Because, you know, I've had readings myself where I've got, oh, I don't love that outcome, and then you know, consciously change the direction. That is literally the best way to use cards, you know, not just to go, oh gosh, this is happening, but even myself and clients um tend to not be able to pivot that quickly in life, but generally they can um at least then expect or understand what is about to happen and why. If they can pivot quickly, like it can sometimes take years to get your ducks in a row to make a huge life change. So um, you know, at least you've got the tools then to know where to go, how to do it. Um and then I also have an element in there of just channeling as well. Um, but I tend to trust that anything anything is that needs to come from spirit is going to come through the cards. And I have like a little sort of you know, ritual that I do personally before I start reading where I say, you know, I want those messages to be clear so that I can see them on the table. But I have a particular deck that I use right at the end, which is um a pure sort of channel, and I just, you know, is there one last sentence? You know, come on, spirit, speak now or forever hold your peace. This is it.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

This is your time to I like this. So the last deck is that a tarot deck or Oracle? Or no, it's an article deck. Yeah, it's actually an Oracle deck.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

And it's an intuitive Oracle deck. So I really respect the system of tarot, and uh however, I do think that reading happens in four layers. So there is like the system, and and what happens is that once you can then layer that with you know the added bits of intuition and psychic hit, you know, it's amazing that it will always sort of tend to sit within the context of that card and what that meaning is in some way, in the context of the question. So there are real layers to the way in which I read is that you know, one is sort of like the science, and one, and then it comes up to the art. And synthesizing all of those together is sort of how I think you know, you get a very um, you know, a good a good read and and the storytelling, and not and I don't read card by card, never and you know, I read non-positionally in a sort of cardamantic style, so that you know there is a story to be told with the interaction between cards and what's going on. So yeah, that's sort of my approach.

unknown 51:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Well, I love that. That's fascinating, and I love how it all works together. Yeah, very, very in-depth.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

It seems to work for me. Of course. It's definitely hard. But it's never, you know, I mean, if the nice thing about having a um tableau out is that you know, they might know, I'll say, Oh, do you have any questions, any other questions? And it might already be sitting there, you know, in the read. So there's just a lot of information that you can draw very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Yeah. Oh yeah, but I'm sure you see it, like you said, asking to be clear, so seeing the problem spots, like, or not I shouldn't say problem, but what somebody needs to focus on. Like not problem.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

I don't want to say I actually don't do any Grand Tableau on their own anymore because once I started doing that, I realized that I was actually sounding very negative. Oh no, and I felt that it was just not giving uh a positive uh endpoint sometimes to a client. So I always combine them now. And um that gives me the ability then to say, okay, all right, well, you know, you maybe they had some very challenging cards, maybe they're in a difficult situation. Is this reflected in the tarot, or is it actually just their day-to-day outlook? So it's actually interesting to see the mix between the systems as well, to see how you know, is this really serious or is this just a little blip, you know?

SPEAKER_04 52:42

Do you think they are able to change direction? If there is something on the table and it's like screaming to you by you telling this person, okay, this will happen. Will he or she be able to turn the tides?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Absolutely. Well, they have everyone has the ability, it's just whether they put in the work, usually. And actually, I know I said that I wasn't uh a witch for hire as such, but I do sometimes bring in some magic at that point too, and I will like give them something that they can do. Like, you know, often it'll be like uh I'm trying to think of something. Like, may I might do okay, let's let's do let's do some tarot magic then. Like if they if they need to like have some steps to get to a future health, I'll I'll give them a little bit of a transformational um exercise occasionally, not all the time. Um, and I often like tend to you know get people to work with chakras and things which are blocked, and you know, so I I do give them homework.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

But but standards on is really changing because it's it's another perception, and you have something in hand to do something, so that's also the power of a ritual. Yes, you can put something so big that you cannot grasp into an action, uh lighting the candle, taking on the candle in your pocket, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

And that's exactly where that Chiron Alchemy program is, where you can go, okay. Well, this is happening, I now can understand it because you know we've analyzed the placement in the chat, why why this is showing up in my life, and then here is an action of sympathetic magic that you can use personally to transmute that into moving on from it or letting it go, however. And of course, it's individual because it depends on the placement of the of Chiron. So, exactly that giving somebody the chance to actually do something, some form of ritual, which is going to then like move them through that state into another state.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

And it's a bowerman because do an action, you do something rather than just sitting and then grinding in your otherwise it's all in your head, otherwise you're just like, oh you know, and you can overthink it and in fact make it bigger than what it is, if you're not actually, you know, doing something to to you know transmute it in some way. Rituals make that if you look back on your career in this profession, what's the best lesson you have ever learned? Gosh, that is a hard one. Just out of the blue.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

I think probably I think in this in this profession, I think the hardest thing for people to learn is owning their own voice and trusting what they're getting. And I I think when people start and then they start reading, they refer, you know, they worry that you know what they're getting is not right. So I think that there is a transition that happens um from new reader to professional reader where you trust what you see. And across the board, not just card reading, but like, you know, and I think it's just connecting and trusting your own intuition, your own psychic hits, your own, you know, is this is this me making it up, or is this, you know, it's that transition where you go, okay, this is not me, this is what what I'm seeing, and that I'm seeing this for a reason. So trusting that voice, trusting your own interpretation, I think that's a huge lesson.

SPEAKER_04 56:07

That's that's the actual actual service I find now looking back. Yeah, I think the experience is more important than being right or wrong.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Yeah, yes, because do you know I found that there are a lot of people I feel who, you know, like my generation, for example, you know, we we didn't go to therapy, we don't know what therapy is, we don't, you know, we're living with all this trauma. We had boomer parents, you know. And in some ways, tarot tarot sessions or a reading session is that therapy for somebody who is not going to go to a traditional therapist. It's a way for them to sit for an hour and have space held and have actionable things that they can do, they can talk about themselves, they can get deep, they can get beneath the surface and and have some way of you know forward, forward trajectory and hope and positivity out of that. So yeah, I think I think we're the the the therapists for Generation X.

unknown 57:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 57:08

Actually, a cult reader or a magician or whatever, it gives you more than a therapist. Yeah. I don't want to say in quality or whatever, but it gives you more because you know, like I'm a therapist, but I'm also like in hypnotherapy and all that. So but if I were juice just uh perform talks with the people that's just on the surface, so but then okay, it can work, okay, it's good, but that's analytical. But when you talk to anymore, we have the analysis of your life, but then you have also the solution. Yes, and I I think that's that's more.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yeah, yeah. I think probably because when you have a session with somebody, you might when you're pulling cards, the cards aren't lying right, they're getting right down underneath it. It might take you six sessions in therapy without cards to get to that depth of what's going on underneath the hood. You know, because it's so clear, it comes out, you know, and people say one thing, but you know, they really mean something else sometimes. And so that's um probably expediting that experience into one session where it could be, you know, 10 sessions with um with you beyond with your hypnotherapy.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Oh, well, you know you're probably getting it quite quickly with the hypnose, but um, yeah, yeah, there are no quick fixes in therapy, but hypnotherapy is the quick the quickest fix. Yeah, that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Yeah, maybe I need to maybe I then maybe I need to bring all my GNX or trauma to you.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

Yeah, even that's also my experience line at the time. So nowadays I'm not reading cards anymore, so I like to study, I like to do this, you know. That's it's still a a favorite subject of me, but in a lot of way, as it used to be. But you know, I have this experience as for reading cards for people, and besides that, for a long time in the coaching world and as a therapist and all that, but how I see it nowadays, you know. Uh, I think the experience also in therapy is what really heals someone, the connection you have, the or let me say it this way if that's not there, there will be no good therapy.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you yeah, it must be very you must have to self-reflect quite a bit going through just learning those things. Otherwise, you know, you wouldn't have any interest in being a healer if you don't actually heal yourself first in some way.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

Yeah, it's a lesson of self-emerge as well. Face for shadows, which makes me always think that there was this this big meta study, I think in America, and they oh yeah, thousands of people and they ask people so do you think that you are self-aware? And like 59 of or nine uh uh uh percent of all uh thought, oh yes, I'm very much self-aware. And in the end, it was like only 15%.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

Yeah, and I'm surprised it's that much.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

Most people have no self-awareness or self-reflection. But these are also your clients, so and it's always always difficult to express yourself as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

Well, I think as I said, like we um, you know, this is like a the most fabulous early morning conversation, but like, you know, for for me, because I love delving into this sort of stuff, but a lot of people just don't take the time to look deeper, they don't want to, or it doesn't come across them. I think it's just depends, like, you know, might be in your chart, might be, you know, some people just not into and so of course they won't have their self-reflection because they've never really even thought to have self-reflection or self-awareness. But what you know, that's the goal. Know thyself is the goal, isn't that?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

It's like and you have to be courageous as well, because you have to see that you're not perfect as well. That's right. You're kind of science and all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

This is it, and you know, there's a lot of talk um now about doing shadow work and and things like that. You know, it's very, you know, the thing to do. And yeah, I I will say that um back to sorcery of hecate, I found that to almost be like the shadow work for me because I really connected to I want to say the darker side of myself, whereas I don't sort of see it as being the darker side of myself, but it integrated all aspects of where, you know, back to the oh, you must be like a white witch. There is no white, there is, you know, only our or together. And so, so that was um so empowering to actually look at all aspects and integrate them. And I absolutely credit that program for you know, really me feeling very whole and very, you know, empowered in all aspects. So, yeah, can't like literally I recommend that to anyone who's a bit more advanced in their magical sort of practice and learning. Like, that is a a knockout program, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:53

But it's it's also a much more realistic view, and that's really like the archaic, more big pagan view that the world is not Christian duality, good or bad, you know, good or bad depends on the context. No, I'm against I'm against all violence, you know. Uh that's something horrifying. But if someone attacks you and I defend you with violence, then it's good. Never it's just the the intention, the context, what makes something good or bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

So why and the yeah, yeah, the irony of um the I don't I will I can't help it because it just is me, but the irony of Christianity saying good and bad when they to me sit on the bad side is like you know, insane. And it's like the one who is causing the fights and the aggression and the hatred and all this stuff, you know. Um for me, we're you know, my practice is so much, you know, more in tune with you know harmony and compassion and nature and growth and creativity. It's it's astounding that they see that as being like evil, you know, the opposite of oh yeah, they're saying it's good. Real irony for me, that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

Yes, yeah. Do we have a last tip before you can start your day? And I will almost end my day. Uh for people, I don't know, whatever comes from your spark.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Oh, yes, I'll let fire. Oh gosh, I think um connection probably is it like just walk through life being aware of the patterns and the and the uh symbols that the universe is showing you at all times. Just notice, spend time connecting and noticing the things around you. Like, I think a lot of people don't do that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Have a look at you know what's going on in nature, what's going on, what are you seeing repeatedly? You know, things are coming at you all the time, showing you whether you're on the right way or not. And um, and yeah, noticing it is half the battle. That's very shaman look.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

See, you're already on the shaman.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Like this is it. I I just haven't gone down the name, the the name of it, the title. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

I love that, but it is very shaman.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Thank you, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:26

Thank you very much, uh Beck, for getting out of bed for us so early. Oh well.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Sorry about my like pivoting um seated arrangement there. I had to like the sun was chasing me.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:40

We agreed, we agreed on a magical experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah, all 360 of my reading room. Thank you so much. It's been fabulous to see you again, Bjorn. And it's like really wonderful to meet you, Morgan. And I look forward to talking to you more about some of these things.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:02

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

Yes, all the time. I always love talking about these sorts of things.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:09

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

And reading.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:11

For me, that's magic, you know, having an idea and just work it up. Yeah, everyone, okay, it's nothing and work, just do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

Yes, every act done with um every act done with intention is an act of magic. Absolutely. From making a cup of tea to you know, building a house to creating work to actually doing a magical spell, it's all magic because you know you've got the spark, you create it, it happens, yeah. Totally a cool, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:43

Thank you very much.