Dune Part 10 - Knives, Water, and Honor

We continue our journey through Dune with Paul’s duel with Jamis, the importance of Fremen traditions and names. 

This is followed by a detour to Giedi Prime where we meet Count Fenring while the Baron and Feyd put on a grim spectacle. 

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Dune 33–35

Michael Kentris 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Brothers Reading Books. We are your hosts, the Brothers Kentris. I am Michael Kentris, and I'm joined as always by my lovely brother Will. How are you doing, Will? Doing pretty well. How about you, Michael? I'm doing all right. I've uh I've been on call this last week, so I'm uh a little tired, but I slept well last night with fewer phone calls, so I'm I'm feeling pretty good. I'm on the upswing, so I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Good, good. I'm glad to hear that. So for those who are just joining us, why? Go back to episode one and then come back to us now. But uh we're we're starting chapters 33 through 35 in uh Frank Herbert's Dune today. So I've enjoyed your pithy summaries so far, Will. So how would you summarize our content for today? Absolutely. So uh just to give a little context for folks who are listening, uh, we previously left Paul and Lady Jessica in the company of the uh Fremen led by Stilgar, his troop. And now in these following chapters, we will cover Paul and Jameis having a little bit of a tussle. Uh because Paul Just a little. Just a little bit of a tussle, yeah, because uh Jameis got his ego hurt pretty bad. Uh and then we kind of a spoiler here, say goodbye to Jameis. And then Barely New Year. That's right. Uh although I I will say there's part of the funeral rites in there that I appreciate, kind of like giving some depth to him there. It is. And then we wrap it up with uh the Count and the Baron having a nice chat before uh Fade Roth though's birthday party. It's always nice to celebrate someone's birthday. Right. Yeah, it's good to have a reason to celebrate. Right. So jumping into our first chapter today, we have another intro from the Princess of Rulin, as has become our standard here. And, you know, it's kind of interesting. We get this like physical description of the Padasha Emperor here, that he was 72 but looked no more than 35. So that was kind of interesting. And that he often appeared in public in a Sardacar uniform, an open reminder of where his power lay, although he was not always so blatant. So kind of interesting, inasmuch, right? They're kind of talking about his his power, both physically and then kind of uh representationally via his dress. But then they also talked that we denied him an heir, a legal son. And was this not the most terrible defeat a ruler ever suffered? My mother obeyed her sister's superiors, where the lady Jessica disobeyed. Which of them was the stronger? History already has the answer. Mysterious. But yeah, so we kind of are getting this continued background. This excerpt is from In My Father's House. So we keep getting these little nuggets of like kind of future time as far as you know, what is the Emperor's situation like? So I found that very interesting. How can we get these? They're almost like glimpses into the future. So we've talked Yeah, we've talked in the past, like the entire first book one was like was it chapter two? They said, like, here's all our plants of what's going to happen. And then the rest of like the next, you know, 20 chapters was exactly that, with like some little tweaks here and there, right? Some individual modifications. And so now we're kind of almost setting that up again, right? Paul's been having his like prescients, we're getting these little breadcrumbs from these, you know, what do they call them, like metafiction, I think was the term we used previously. Yeah, that makes sense. These fictional documents within the fictional work. And uh yeah, I don't know. I think it's it's a nice little way to increase the versatilitude to kind of keep your expectations directed in certain ways without being heavy-handed about it. Yeah, one thing I suppose that I was wondering as I read that excerpt there was so I'm assuming that despite, you know, being in the future and everything, society at this point more or less follows along like a patriarchal line of heirs, like, you know, the the Princess Arulin could not be the successor to the Emperor, the Panashul Emperor. It seems to imply that there's a patrilineal uh inheritance structure. I don't know if they've said that explicitly, but they they do seem to imply it uh several times. So for what that's worth. Yeah. Kind of that again, that uh medieval flair to it, I suppose. And then kind of a subsequent follow-up to that is so obviously, you know, Princess Rulin mentions here that her mother was a Bene Gesserit. Do the children of Bene Gesserits, I mean obviously up with the exception of Paul, they've all been women, do they all join the sisterhood? Because I know like the whole idea is that they're trying to cultivate like the I don't know, perfect lineage type thing. Right. I don't know if that's something that's like, okay, now you are part of the sisterhood, you have reached twelve years old, go and train or I don't think that has been explicitly stated, but they have said that a lot of the the Bene Gesserit don't know their heritage for a large extent. So I think it would be hard to say if you knew who your mother was or things like that. Aaron Ross Powell Like maybe once they have the child, they kind of take it to some sort of not necessarily an orphanage, but like a like a Bene Gesserit nunnery or something. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Some sort of training house or I think chapter house. I don't know what they call them. But yes, I I think that's what happens. But um because we had those stories about Lady Jessica's flashbacks to her training. While they weren't in huge detail, it kind of gave us a little bit of insight there.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Right.

Michael Kentris 6:14

And then uh she obviously didn't know that her own heritage was from the Harkin and line from the bear himself. So I I suspect that you know she didn't know her father. It doesn't sound like she knew her mother either. So if we extrapolate that out, I would say probably.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

That's all I needed to hear.

Into The Sietch: Rules And Rituals

Michael Kentris 6:32

We'll we'll see. Perhaps more details would be forthcoming. So anyway. Alright, so as you said, Will, Jessica and Paul are with the the Freeman, and now they are in this cave. And they got some good rest. She uh she's gotten some the utterly relaxing sleep of great fatigue, which sounds nice. Especially given my my current work schedule. But uh yeah, so they're kind of talking about just the things in the cave here, and a little bit of description of like kind of the food. We get again this description of the bird flesh and grain bound within a leaf with spice honey. And um you know, she immediately starts like thinking, her mind's racing about all the things she has to do, etc. etc. Um like wearing her boots slip fashion to help with her still suits pumping action, and you know, she wants to get a message out to the Benny Gesseret. So so yeah, she's kind of thinking about all that stuff. She's uh just observing the environment around her, including Paul. Yes. Yes. Apparently he was acting strangely before they retired the previous night. Withdrawn. Which makes sense because he was uh chipping pretty hard on the spice-infused mixture. So navigating the prescient waves of what may come to pass. Yeah, and I sometimes I still think about that one meme with the cat that's high on catnip, you know what I'm talking about? Not right offhand. Is there any more complex? Uh it just says the spice must flow. Oh there it is. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's great. Anyway, if you haven't seen that, just Google it quickly. I don't know. If you're listening to this, you'll probably enjoy it. So anyway, again, right, Lady Jessica is observing things around her. She sees Stilgar come out and he's talking to a group, and she gets some sort of spider sense. Her abrupt fear shoots through her, stiff movements, ritual positions, which what are those like? Is that some sort of like genuflection? Who knows? And we still hear Stilgar rumbling, they have my countenance, and she realizes he's talking with Jameis, and we get a little conversation between Stilgar and Jameis here. Where Jameis says, You know the rule, Stilgar, and he replies, Who knows it better? Um and Jameis says, I choose the combat. So she goes over there and says, What is this? And Stilgar says, It is the emtol rule. Now I apologize to our listeners, I did not look this word up in advance. I don't know if you did well. I didn't. Quick Google search though. Processing. It appears to be from do and it does not appear to be a real thing. Well, but a rule or tenet on primitive works primitive worlds under which something's tested to determine its limits or defects. There you go. Yes. So so yeah, we get this little bit here. Jameis is demanding the right to test her part in the legend. And Jameis says she must be championed. If her champion wins, that's the truth in it. But it is said that she need no champion from him in the prima, which can mean only that she brings her own champion. And I have a note here just saying Jameis is a jerk. So his ego has been wounded. Right. We know that uh this is the guy, you know, Paul like basically knocked out last night, and he's basically challenging Paul in an indirect fashion to single combat. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. So is the whole idea that he's able to challenge Paul here is because he can't, or so obviously, you know, Lydia Jessica here is she's got the weirding ways. Yes, the Saida, Sayida, whatever. Sayadina. Sayadina. So like we're like, I don't trust her, so she needs to be championed. Is that more or less like someone has to fight her fight for her? So in this case, is that it's it sounds like it's part of one of the prophecies that we have been getting little hints of, right? Where it says that she would need no champion. And then you know, she because she tries to say, like, I'm always my own champion, and basically so like that's not the way of things, more or less. So and he's kind of accusing her of I like this phrase here, uh, Stilgar could have filled your mind full of the coddle, and you could have bird-talked it to us, hoping to make a false way among us. So basically saying, like, you know, he doesn't buy what she's selling as far as the call and response, you know, from the previous nights, as far as like, you know, the kind of prophetic responses and so on that comes from the missionary protective. Which he does have some validity there. Obviously, she does not believe in it. It's she's just stepping through the steps that the MP is said before. So So basically still going, Jessica can you know, have a little aside here. And it says that Jameis is one to hold a grudge. Your son bested him. And then Jameis, like, over must overhear. It's like it was an accident. It was witchforce at Tuono Basin, and I'll prove it now. I mean, it's just it's so over the top, right? It's a young man whose pride has been hurt and he is quite a hothead.

unknown 11:54

Yeah.

Jameis Demands Trial By Combat

Michael Kentris 11:55

No, I I love Stilgar in this scene, just the way he's trying to goad Jameis into attacking him instead of Paul. Just again, speaking to his I don't know, ability to lead here. Yes. Like this, yeah, it basically says, like, you know, too much gaffle, the distraction. He gives his mouth to the rules and his heart to the sophra, the turning away. Uh no, he could never make a good leader. I've kept him because he's useful in a fight. But when he gets this carving anger on him, he's dangerous to his own society, and just get this Stilgar from James.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yes. Yes. But he doesn't fall for Stilgar's goading.

The Knife Fight And Its Stakes

Death, Water, And Fremen Honor

Naming Usul And Muad’Dib

The Water Caches And Desert Dream

Jessica, Chani, And Courtship Signals

Muad’Dib’s Songs And Paul’s Dread

Cut To Giedi Prime: Masks Of Power

Count Fenring’s Needle And Veil

Feyd’s Arena Gambit

Poison, Triggers, And Spectacle

Michael Kentris 12:36

So what do they call him? Full fleshed with a surfit of water. And uh he says there's Leder Johns of water in their packs. Leader Johns! Whole Leader Johns. Whole Leader Johns. What were you going to do with this wealth? Stilgar asks Jessica. And so we get this, right? This little bit of a culture shock episode again, right? Where we keep getting this emphasis on water, not just water, but moisture. Moisture. Moisture. So And she's like, you know, she gives us the oceans of it so broad you cannot see others. So I've not been trained to your water discipline. Um and you get this like I just imagine this like susuration of voices like water fell from the sky, it ran over the land. Like incredulous, incredulous speech that they are having there, like just like ps, you know. So anyway, uh, if they're in need, give them water from her pack. So she's she's generous with it, and you know it's like Jaminus again, right? It's not buying it. Like, you're not gonna buy us off with your water. And so he's like, are you determined to keep this fight up? And he's like, Yeah, basically. Stilgar basically tells him, if you survive this fight, then I'm going to also take you out. So Right. Yeah. Stilgar's like, not having it. He's he's done, he's had enough of Jameis and all of his chicanery. Yes. So Paul comes up and Perhaps if I explain to Jameis, and Jameis just sneers at him. Explain. Right. I like this description. Paul fell silent, staring at the man. He felt no fear of him. Jameis appeared clumsy in his movements, and he had fallen so easily in their night encounter on the sand. But he remembered the Nexus boiling of this cave and had the prescient visions of himself dead under a knife. There have been so few avenues of escape for him in that vision. Stilgar says, Cyadina, you must step back. And Jerusal is like, stop calling her Cyadina. He just sounds like a petulant child the way they've written him, right? Like he's just so unreasonable, uh, so not in control of his speech. And he's like, you know, we don't know that she is, she knows the prayer, so what all of our children do, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, you know, we uh she tries to use the voice on him. She's like, I'll teach you agony, and uh he gasps, she tries a spell on me. I invoke the silence on her. Which is just so funny. But uh anyway, the But again, he's he's not wrong. No, no, he's not. Uh it's just as awful as he is, yeah, he's he's not incorrect in these aspersions that he's casting on the right, right. So so anyhow, basically says you can't talk anymore. So the silence has been invoked, and so now we get the the ring, the fight ring forming up amongst the troopier. Yes. So we kind of get, you know, everyone's kind of like, you know, I get like a an image like a boxing, you know, boxers prepping, they're taking off their still suit, setting it to the side, they're like in their loincloths, uh, or I guess uh Jameis is in loincloth, Paul is in a um fighting trunks, I believe they say. Yes. And so, you know, they're like getting prepped and ready here. They got their knives, uh their Chris knives. And then uh Chani is helping Paul get ready, and she's kind of giving him some some insider information here. Yeah, she mentions that he's ambidextrous, and so more or less like keep an eye on the knife, not on the hand. So apparently he likes to switch it up. As Paul was trained by Gurney Halleck, or no, Duncan Idaho in this case. Was it both? It was both. Both. But uh yes, as as Jessica was watching Paul, it came to her that he had been trained in prana and bindu, the nerve and the fiber, taught by fighting in a deadly school. Teachers men like Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck. So So yes, we kind of get like these little bits here about his habits during the fight, as you said, the the old bait and switch. But the Chris knife, no shearing guard, only the slim round ring of the handle with its raised lips to protect the hand, and he did not know the breaking tension of this blade, if it could be broken. Which, you know, James calls out shortly thereafter, may the knife chip and shatter. And Paul thinks, this knife will break then. That's okay. Good to know. Don't you don't need a me of mentat to take make that deduction there. Right. So yeah, they're kind of squaring off, we get this fight. And Paul realizes, I am afraid, even though he's not necessarily he's confident in his abilities, but he's afraid uh because there is a loss of the vision within this nexus point of this fight in this cave. Yeah, and definitely one of the weaknesses that Paul exhibits during this fight is that since he's been trained with the shield, it impacts his ability to effectively counter any time that Jameis leaves an opening, which happens many times to the point where everybody thinks that he's toying with Jameis. And ultimately it's just Paul being like, oh yeah, I need to strike more quickly, but again, it's not like Jameis is a complete failure as a warrior, so he's able to take advantage of his kind of opening there as well to jump back and repeat it over and over and over. Yes, so and it's kind of interesting that uh this difference in fighting style, so kind of twofold, right? Like the shield training, where if you struck too fast on the shield, it would deflect your blow. So he he dodges and retreats very quickly, but then his attacks are like like slow enough to give him the out, as you said. But uh it makes everyone watching think that he's playing with him. And then the second part is like he has not killed a man. So we get this impression, like Stilgar is like, you know, is your son playing with that poor fool? And eventually we find out that uh no, he's not, but it takes some explaining at the end of the fight. But so before we get there, um you know we get a first blood drawn on Jameis, where uh he basically twists to the right, uh, and then instead of faking back and out, Paul you know basically gets his hand, and we get this blood dripped from the injury for a moment and stopped. So we kind of had this indication that the the Freemen maybe have superior clotting abilities because of the water pour environment in which they live. Um so just kind of an interesting continuation of that theory. But after this first blood, Paul asks, Do you yield? And James just says, Ha. And the troop says angry murmurings. Yes. And then you know Silgar says, Hold, the lad doesn't know our rules. There can be no yielding the Tahadi challenge, death is the test of it. And she sees Paul swallow hard, and she realizes he's never killed a man like this in the hot blood of a knife fight. So as this is going on, go ahead. You had something there, Will. Yeah, so the fight keeps going on, and Jameis is definitely starting to get desperate, and he starts kind of getting this flashback to pieces of information. Uh this is also from Lady Jessica's perspective, though, where like now is when he's most dangerous. He's desperate, he can do anything. Right. But cornered rat. Right, but it's interesting because at the same time, it's like that is what they are trying to do. Like towards the beginning of the fight, Lady Jessica was trying to, yeah, kind of instill this seed of fear in Jameis. And so I guess ultimately it's just, you know, to make them have a big enough opening to take advantage of. Make a mistake. But at the same time, it also seems like it's kind of exasperating this desperation. It it seemed counterintuitive to one another. Right. And so, yeah, he's kind of like letting the tension build, letting the as a get an Idaho flashback here. When your opponent fears you, then's the moment when you give the fear its own reign, give it the time to work on them. Let it become terror. The terrified man fights himself, eventually he attacks in desperation. That is the most dangerous moment, but the terrified man can be trusted usually to make a fatal mistake. You are being trained here to detect these mistakes and use them. Which makes the crowd mutter again. More harumphing. So again, right, they think he's toying with Jameis, and I mean he's not necessarily doing it maliciously, but he is doing it tactically. Yes. And so Jameis makes his big wager, his big gamble here, he leaps high, fainting and striking down with his right hand. But that hand was empty. The Christmas shifted to his left hand. Gasp. But again, Chani had warned Paul about this. So he anticipates it. Jameis has some bad footwork, and then he's able to leap in and stab him. Stab him good. Right. As he is descending, and then watches the man crumble like a limp rag face down, gasped once and turned his face toward Paul, then lay still. On the rock floor. His dead eyes stared out like beads of dark glass. That's right. Callback. Right. But uh yes. So yes, Jameis is dead. And so now we get some other cultural freeman information here. So basically a frenzy of activity descends on Jameis's corpse, and Paul kind of gets pushed back a little bit. And they're like, you know, kind of noticing that, you know, oh, not a mark on him. You know, he was such a skilled fighter, blah, blah, blah. But then Lady Jessica, you know, she she has concerns. He has killed a man in clear security of mind and muscle. He must not grow to enjoy such a victory. So she's worried about him coming to enjoy power, like violent power. And she walks up to him and says, Well now, how does it feel to be a killer? And Paul stiffens as though struck. So Stilgar also comes up, you know, before he replies and says, When the time comes for you to call me out and try for my Berta, do not think you'll play with me the way you play with Jameis. And uh she realizes how the fight looks, and Paul looks and it's like, you know what it was, he said. And you know, basically says, I I wasn't playing with him, I didn't want to kill him, essentially. Paul's never before killed a man with a naked blade. And everybody's just kind of like taken aback by that fact. Yes. Right. Yeah, they were hard to believe because he was, you know, such a skilled fighter. And they kind of talk about this like he had been trained since infancy to be able to night fight. So very different from from that, right? That he's not a soft off-world or he is a trained warrior. Water flat, a surface of water. But basically he is getting respects, right? You're not a boy, you're a man, man needs a name. And so Stilgar gives him a name to be used amongst the tribe, the name Usul, the base of the pillar. This is your secret name that we of Seach Taber may use. So and then they ask him, what name of manhood do you choose for us to call you openly? And so we get this little uh directed uh what's the name of the little mouse, the mouse that jumps, and uh we call that one Muaddeb. So we finally have the name of Muadib here. And he says, you know, is that the name you wish? No, I don't want to give up all my heritage. Call me Paul Muadib. So, yes. Yeah. In that scene, uh so yeah, and again he remembered the vision of fanatic legions following the green and black banner of the Atreides, pillaging and burning across the universe the name of their prophet Muadib. That must not happen, he told himself. And honestly, what he's kind of like, yeah, is that the name you wish Muadib? And he's like, uh, could you call me Paul Muadib? It felt it felt like a very like limp-wristed effort to try and be like, no, not the jihad. Let's try and stop. So they do they do mention the the jihad several times in this chapter and the next, you know, with that same imagery of the green and black banners and the you know sword and death, you know, going across the galaxy, etc., etc. So a lot of fixation on this. And he's like, right, because he's in this Nexus point, he hasn't come out of it just yet. And so like, what can I do to change it? And essentially, he's not sure, but I uh you know, it kind of keeps coming up and again and again. I like this little bit here, uh a little statement from Stilgar. I will tell you a thing about your new name. The choice pleases us. Muaddib is wise in the ways of the desert. Muaddib creates his own water. Muaddib hides from the sun and travels in the cool night. Muaddib is fruitful and multiplies over the land. Muaddib we call instructor of boys. That is a powerful base on which to build your life, Paul Muadib, who is Uso among us, we welcome you. So, some information about the desert mouse there. Right. A little ecology lesson. That's right. And uh as that goes on here, he gets meeted or greeted, well, words. He gets greeted by every member of the tr of the tribe here, uh, and they all kind of embrace him and say Uso, and he basically meets everybody. Yes. It's that initial welcoming, yeah, kind of being brought into the fold. Actually becoming a member of the troop. So they talk about the the water. So we got these leader johns of water. The water is the dower of the Sayadina, and they're talking about like different rates of interest for water, right? It's like kind of their economy, is these these water markers. But they are doing the full ceremony for Jameis. He was our companion and brother of the Ichuan Bedouin, which I wonder if that is supposed to be like some sort of variation of like Bedouin. You know, because if I remember correctly, a lot of the culture here is kind of taken from these sort of Bedouin-esque tribes, the desert nomads. So I wonder if that's supposed to be sort of a callback there to like our our earth Bedouin tribes. So at sunset when the dark comes, they're going to do the procedure, the the ritual. The water is for the tribe. Yes. The flesh is for the individual, water for the tribe. And again, uh hearing these words again, he realizes he had plunged once more into the abyss blind time, and he still senses the green and black Atreides banner waving with the jihads, bloody swords, etc. It will not be. It cannot be. I cannot let it be. And that is the end of chapter 33. So going to chapter I mean, chapter 34 is essentially a direct continuation here. So it's not really much time or change in location, characters, anything like that. So our uh Wisdom of Muadib excerpt, God created Arrakis to train the faithful. Which you know, there's there's always a lot of talk about um, you know, asceticism and things like that in a lot of different religions to to increase your reliance on God kind of in different faith traditions. I certainly, you know, this one seems pretty bog standard to me as far as potential origins as far as that goes. So they're waiting for the night to call. Um and we kind of get this a little bit here. Biston Burrow calls Stilgarhead said, were there signals of his watchmen. So I wonder if that was what Jameis was talking about, you know, bird calling us essentially, like some sort of false sign, if you will. So she's talking about um maybe getting some sensation of the water moisture that the freemen already have through her Bene Gesserit training. And we get a little more of this um, I think it was Jacobsa, Jacobsa speech. Mm-hmm. Which is translated here, thankfully, by Lady Jessica. These are ashes and these are roots. The funeral ceremony was beginning. So it's it's night, it's still hot. The heat persisted. And I thought this was interesting. Force your thoughts onto water and the observed fact that this whole people could be trained to be thirsty only at given times. Thirst. Uh and then she kind of says a little thought back to Kaladin. The suit itself was a sweat box. And uh Silligar says, your suit will be more comfortable when you've adjusted to a lower water content in your body. Which is like, ugh. I don't know. To me, that just sounds like once you're more dehydrated, you'll get used to it. And that doesn't bode well. Yeah, yeah. So I like this. The unconscious preoccupation with water here weighed on her mind. No, she corrected herself. It was a preoccupation with moisture. Which I don't know. I mean, they say that as a subtle, more subtle and profound matter. What do you make of that, Will? I was I was thinking about that phrase and I wasn't sure what to make of it. So for me, it kind of speaks to the kind of level of granularity with which they concern themselves with water. You know, it's it's not just invisible amounts that you can drink, it's literally like what is available in the air that can be harvested. It's alluded to here later on that kind of like what they were doing in uh Star Wars episode four. Um Mark Hamill's aunt and uncle were mar moisture farmers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's on the desert plan. Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's basically a very similar thing that they're doing here, where it's literally just, you know, it's some sort of wind coming in through this convoluted rock passage that they're able to harness this moisture for their ultimate goal. Yes. So yeah, it it's not even just the fact that water is moisture is also worthwhile. Yes, the water in the air, right? Water vapor. Which I guess makes sense, right? They talk about like the nose plugs and things like that, even the water that is comes out in your breath, right? So for people who don't know, right? When we breathe in, the water gets moisturized because we can't just have dry stuff in our lungs or it will make them brittle and prone to bleeding. So that's bad. But um bleeding internally is bad. Even when in the absence if it doesn't get to that point, right? It causes irritation and friction and things like that. So when you breathe out, that water goes out. So they're trying to capture that as well. Which I mean makes sense in a very arid environment. The the one thing that I'm not completely sure of. So they discussed earlier how they kind of like sealed off the cave that they were in with plugs or whatever, so that people didn't have to necessarily wear their still suits and everything. And I was wondering how are they reclaiming that moisture? Or is that just limiting the amount of moisture that is dispersing? That was the question I had. I think they talked about uh like the still tents. And then uh there was a water lock, I think, on the place where they entered in here, if I remember correctly. So I in my head, I imagined something like uh like the door of a submarine where it's got that like you know big iron wheel on it that you kind of seal tight. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but then in my mind's eye, that's kind of how I was thinking of it. Okay. I mean that's fair. I is again with the tent that makes sense that you know they got a mechanism to like vacuum everything, but with this being kind of more free. Right. I just wonder. I don't know. They don't, I think in these chapters at least they don't directly address that, but I just have to assume that maybe it's high enough that it's relatively equipoise. I don't know. We'll just this might be a hand-waving situation. Absolutely. We gloss over it. Right. It's not it's not worth uh unsuspending my disability. It's like, well, where's the water discipline here? More or less. Yes. So as Jessica's sitting pondering these things, not really. She sees Paul and he's trailed by the elven-faced Johnny. So it's such a like a mother thing to think. Like Paul must be cautioned about their women. One of these desert women would not do his wife to a duke. Concubine, yes, but not a wife. Very, very much a matchmaker mother kind of thought to see there. Yes. I think she has this a couple times during this. Yeah, no, absolutely. Because again, I think, yeah, towards the end of the chapter, she she mentions how Charney's just kind of like hanging off his every word. And she's like, I gotta talk to Paul about the birds and the bees, make sure. Well, he's only 15, as they say. He is only 15. But he was What was the phrase you were using last week? Mentat plus or mentuit? Mentuit, yes, he's mentuiting. But anyway, right, so they're they're it's like, do you know what they're doing back there? It's like, yeah, they're like rendering Jameis down, basically. So they're they're extracting the water from Jameis, and they say the flesh belongs to the person because he has you have to fight in the open without still suits. The winner has to get his water back, then he loses while fighting. And Paul's like, I don't want his water. That's probably not the way he said it, but you know. He did moderate though. Yes. Well, he is a teen, right? He is a teen. Perhaps he is a broody teenager. That is very possible. So but Lady Jessica basically says, like, you have to take it. You will accept the water, right? We can't jeopardize our standing, right? There's all these layers to like breaking these like sacred rituals, especially when a life has been lost. So refusing it would be insulting. And we get a little more information here as the second part of the ritual at the very end here about the the belief the freemen have in putting the shades of the dead to rest. Which I have some thoughts about that we'll get to later. So anyway, which I thought, again, right, we get this little uh Benny Gizeret saying here in Axiom. Survival is the ability to swim in strange water. I must find the currents and patterns in these strange waters if we're to survive. So again, it's another water reference and axiom, which I just find interesting that he's leaned so hard on these water axioms from these other cultures in this desert environment. It's just, again, right, I find it an interesting juxtaposition of language with environment. Absolutely. I feel like it definitely helps contrast, you know, like these were water world dwellers and now they're in the desert. Right. You know, it's they are in strange waters. So, again, right, to diffuse the water would be to break with accepted Freeman practice. And Paul recalls the words from 467 Kalima in Yui's OC Bible. From water does all life begin? And Jessica stares at him. Where do you learn that quotation? He hasn't studied the mysteries. I would assume that she knows the OC Bible, like as a document, but and like as we said before, uh Kalima is uh something from kind of Islamic tradition, which is like a declaration or a statement. And uh there are different kalimas in the Islamic faith. And then Chani chimes in, thus it is spoken, Judikar Mantini. It is written in the Shan Namah that water was the first of all things created, which again I did uh some looking up here. So I am probably mispronouncing this terribly, you know. It's uh I I saw two things like this Judicar or Judicar was either Italian or French origin. I saw one thing that said uh you know kind of a medieval Italian canzone, another one that said it was French, but essentially meaning like a holy truth. So, and then the the Shaw Nama or Shahnama is a that is an actual document. So it is translated as the Book of Kings, you know, Shah, and this is a this is actually a Persian epic poem from around the the year late 900s to early 1000s AD. So kind of interesting there. I did not verify if that was actually in there, but uh it's kind of interesting. And I mean this does echo a little bit, again, like kind of from the the Christian tradition, right, where some translations will say that in the beginning all was formless and void and the spirit of God hovered over the water, you know, something to that effect. And uh so yeah, there there is that idea of water. So as we were saying, they are going through and doing the ritual for the reclamation of water on Jameis here. And I just like this sentence that uh that they had here, a describing the sunset, a violent calamity of color spilled over the sky as the sun dipped beneath the horizon. Right, so we knew they were going to do it after sunset, uh, because there's some association with moonrise also with respect to laying the shades to rest here. And they they also talk Jameis's weapon has been killed. So we kind of got some of this with the conversation between Lady Jessica and the Shadow of Mapes, when they talk about the Chris knives, how they can't be away from the warmth of a body for more than a day, or they basically like disintegrate or whatever it is that happens. And so Jameis's weapon has been killed, Stilgar says. So I guess perhaps that's what he's referring to here, I would suspect. Yeah, probably something along those lines. Or or maybe uh they're referring to somehow the body being the weapon as well. You know, I I feel like, and again, I'm drawing on a lot of wheel of time stuff here with the the uh what uh what do they call the aile? Aile? Yes. Yeah. How they basically, you know, treat their entire bodies as weapons and things of that sort. So I I draw a lot of parallels internally between the two cultures. I mean, they both kind of have a sort of desert society origin, I suppose. Right. But yeah, we get this little it has a very a um again, a ritualistic, I know I was kind of being redundant, a ritualistic sound to it. Jameis's weapon has been killed. Jameis has been called by him, by Shai Hulud, who has ordained the phases for the moons that daily wane, and in the end appear as bent and withered twigs. Thus it is with Jameis. And we get this interesting ritual where he calls the friends of Jameis will approach, and there's this very like his worldly possessions are essentially like placed, you know, in a collection on the ground here, and Jessica leans forward, follow their lead, do as they do, it will be a simple ceremony to placate the shade of Jameis. And then Paul thinks, it will be more than that. Interesting. So so all these uh people who knew Jameis step forward and kind of one by one they take something. But before that, they have a kind of this more ritualistic, almost liturgical, if you will, back and forth. There's a kind of a call and response here between Stilgar and the troop. Uh the spirit leaves the body's water when the first moon rises. Thus it is spoken. When we fur see the first moon rise this night, whom will it summon? Jameus, the troop responded. And then uh Stilgar says, I was a friend of Jameis. When the hawk plane stooped upon us at hole in the rock, it was Jameis pulled me to safety. I take this robe as a friend of Jameis, the leader's right, and uh this kind of goes on a few right, we get a listing of his worldly possessions here, right? Like a bunch of tools, some of the things that we saw like in the Frem kit and things of that nature. And then amongst those, a ballaset. So perhaps Jameis had a sensitive side also. He wasn't just a one-dimensional character that was kind of peeved that he lost to a little boy. That's right. He also liked playing the ballaset. He also liked the ballaset. They also say for Jameis's woman and for the guards. And they take these uh small rocks and a book folded into the folds of his robe, and then they respond, leader's right, and the marker for Jameis's coffee service. I mean, coffee is important. That it should be given to Ulsul in suitable ceremony when we return to the siege. Veter's right, the troop intoned. Yeah, so there's there's this back and forth, right? They take his knife for the funeral plane. For the funeral plane. So it uh it definitely has a very ritualistic thing. This is something that it seems they've probably all been involved with before, to one extent or another. Mm-hmm. And right. Yeah. Yeah, and like you said, so it happens several times. Uh there's a gray-bearded man who comes up. I was a friend of Jameis. When our water went below minimum at the siege at Tubers, Jameis shared. And Paul at this point is kind of internally thinking, Do am I supposed to say I was a friend of Jameis? And then he sees them all kind of like turn expectantly towards him and like they do expect it. And so again, kind of similar with the duel that he's just, you know, been in where it's like they're a little peeved with him because they're expecting him to, in the first case, finish the fight, and now, you know, they're expecting him to also show this sign of respect now that he's died. So yeah, they could excuse me, they kind of go through one by one, and then someone actually elbows him and hisses at Paul, would you bring the destruction on us? So, and it kind of goes back, uh, we skipped over a little bit, but Jessica said the meeting between ignorance and knowledge, between brutality and culture, it begins in the dignity with which we treat our dead. So I think that's very interesting because it does, like that is a historical thing in a lot of like early societies as well, as well as modern societies. How do we honor the dead? In uh some ancient societies, right, like burials are very common, inasmuch as uh they would be buried below the foundations of the house. And the idea would be that you know they're still with you in some fashion. So in in some societies, I should say, not all. I think this is in I forget the name of the city, some some ancient burial site in uh you know Asia Minor, now Turkey. Anyway, so they're worried about some sort of superstition or some sort of retribution if they do not honor the customs and honor Jameis and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, Paul eventually gets to his feet and he goes forward and yeah, he obviously picks out the battle set from the belongings and says I was a friend of Jameis. Jameis told me that when you kill, you pay for it. I wish I'd known Jameis better. And then he starts crying, and everybody again is just like He sheds tears. He sheds tears. It's like Usel gives moisture to the dead. Yes. So I thought this So there's there are some uh callbacks to this conversation. kind of thing in in our culture as well. Well not our culture, but in historical earth culture. Like a good example of this is in ancient Greece, they would give sacrifices of you know blood sacrifice of animals at the site of a hero's tombs to feed the shades, right? An example of this would be like in the Odyssey, when Odysseus goes and um sacrifices the black rams to feed the shade of Tiresias to get a prophecy, right? So the idea being that the the blood, right, the thing of life, which in this case, right, it's not blood, it's water itself. So even a kind of more like which this is water from the body. So I guess there is a there is a parallel obviously. But the idea idea being that you are giving something that gives life. So in in like the Odyssey it was blood. Here it's water but the parallel remains I think that this is something to strengthen the dead on their journey to keep their memory alive as it were. So I thought that was a nice parallel there. And it definitely you know I think is pretty straightforward that that is kind of a call back to those ancient cultures. Absolutely. And so yeah just the crowd kind of pulls in to him pushes into him and touch his cheeks to like actually feel the the wetness of his tears. It's like I touched his cheek. I felt the gift. And just again everyone being super impressed with Paul by virtue of Paul being Paul. Well you know right it's uh it's interesting to think of right a society where water is so valued. Of course tears would be something that were discouraged in general. So feeling an emotion strong enough to cause tears in this society would be like a supreme grief perhaps reserved for like close family and loved ones. So the fact that he's again shedding tears, shedding his water for this man whom he killed to their culture would have profound meaning. And so it kind of probably does a little bit to repair the image of him toying with him during the fight. So at the end of this ceremony they have a low chance and this one seems more like a Frank Herbert original here. Full moon calls thee Shy Hulud shalt thou see red the night dusky sky bloody death didst thou die. We pray to a moon she is round luck with us will then abound what we seek for shall be found in the land of solid ground. Not the most stirring poem perhaps but uh yeah I think we get the idea. And we talk here so I thought this was interesting phrasing but we get this statement from Stillgard Jameis carried thirty three liters and seven and three thirty seconds drachums of the tribe's water. So it's not that he had it he carried it it belonged to him which is again echoing that same sentiment that the tri the water belongs to the tribe. Alright and now technically it uh goes to Paul minus you know f fees and interest it seems like they kind of track doing these sorts of things so Paul does end up accepting this water as his mom and instructed him to do so and uh it seems like there are specific individuals that are actually carrying the water but um the water master yes but instead they're giving like these metal rings kind of like as indicators of currency of the amount of water that he is entitled to yes I I apologize that was Chani who said that not Stilgar. But so again we get this kind of ritualistic handing off of the water with this water the tribe entrust thee. Jameis is gone from it take it in peace. And yeah as you said they gets the rings and Paul asks Chani will you hold them for me? Stilgar like smiles and says Paul Muadib who is Usal does not yet know our ways hold his water counters without commitment until it's time to show him the manner of carrying them and Paul's like I missed something there. It's like oh water counters offered to a woman a courtship ritual so uh yeah a little forward of him there but uh doesn't seem like she's completely opposed to it either is just kind of surprised by it more than anything. Right, right. So they go to a yellow rock wall and push an outcropping and the wall swings silently open and they feel a cool wash of air with dampness. Damp moisture uh in the air moisture. So so yes in the trap right the uh the wind traps they were talking about right so these and it's interesting there are uh if you if you Google I don't know if you've seen these before Will there are these ancient um like wind cooling devices in from like kind of the the Middle East I think they were like in the area around Baghdad perhaps somewhere somewhere thereabouts, maybe Persia. But um they they are like these giant clay towers and they would take air in from the top and they would come down and they would kind of cool the environment. So you'd have like kind of this tower thing on top of a living area. And that's kind of what it sounds like here but like to a more extreme to actually get the moisture out of the air. So if you haven't seen those, give them a look. I think in my mind these parallel like kind of like a bronze age version of what they're talking about here. At least in my mental picture. No absolutely I have seen what you've discussed just in general the the pictures kind of showing yeah how the airfall cultures yeah were able to use manipulate physics to make things more bearable. Right. We we mustn't engage in uh what do they call it a chronological chauvinism essentially right people weren't dumber they just didn't necessarily know all the same things. Right they didn't have the access to information that we have right people are people so so we've got this area here and there is a giant amount of water kind of just hanging out at the bottom of this cave wind trap area and they tell us how much here we have more than 38 million decoliters here metric system gross sorry sorry uh my my foreign listeners uh like what I mean you know I know how large a liter of soda is ten liters of soda thirty million ten liters of soda there's a certain point where I just can't fathom the amount of liquid that's there. No pun intended so you know it could have been a thousand deciliters or a million I you know would not be able to properly visualize it. Right. That's the problem with the metric system. Anyway my imperial chauvinism I should add but uh so anyway they they add it to this large amount of water right they're all like kind of in awe there's a sacred space here for the Freeman right everyone's treating it with reverence, listening to the drip drip drip. And Stilgar says there were those among us in need of water yet they would not come here and not touch this water and she says she believes it and it is greater than treasure. We have thousands of such caches only a few of us know them all. And we get this kind of statement of belief it almost sounds like from Stilgar. We get this kind of call response again, right? It has been calculated with precision we know to within a million decaliters shrug how much we need. When we have it we shall change the face of Arrakis the Lau Caifa which as we remember right is like without knowing how. We will trap the dunes beneath grass plantings, we will tie the water into the soil with trees and undergrowth each year the polar ice retreats, we shall make a homeworld of Arrakis with melting lenses at the poles, with lakes in the temperate zones, and only the deep desert for the maker and his spice, and no man ever again shall want for water it shall be his for dipping from well or pond or lake or canal it shall run down through the canats to feed our plants it shall be there for any man to take, it shall be his for holding out his hand Vil al Kaifa So they kind of are talking about again, right, we we talked about like back with Kynes and his his death scene with his hallucinations, how taking this fanatic population and incorporating this belief, this goal in converting Arrakis into a let's just say more hospitable world. Yes, terraforming it yes and using the people as part of the ecologic cycle so so yeah so yeah Paul apparently had actually seen this chamber in one of his older visions and kind of has this reckoning that the inertia of events that has already come to pass doesn't seem like there's anything that he can do short of everyone in that chamber dying to prevent this you know intergalactic jihad from occurring in the future. So right yes the yeah again he references the terrible purpose and then yeah it was gathering weight momentum. If he died this instant the thing would go on through his mother and his unborn sister nothing less than the deaths of all the troop gathered here and now himself and his mother included could stop the thing. So I I referred to that as a terrible inertia that a few events like that. Yeah. So they go back up and you know Chani is like tell me about the waters of your birth world Paul Muadib and uh she says another time Shawnee I promise and then she's like sing me one of your songs and Jessica again we get this mothering bit from her here such feminine allure in that girl child's voice. I must caution Paul about their women and soon hmm you know teenage boys, teenage girls gotta watch out making doe eyes at each other. So Paul says this was a song of a friend of mine I expect he's dead now Gurney is he called it his even song we hear now Paul is a tenor so this clear time of scene embers, a gold bright sun's lost in first dusk, what frenzied senses desperate musk, our consort of remembering and Jessica felt the verbal music in her breast, pagan and charged with sounds that made her suddenly and intensely aware of herself, feeling her own body and its needs Night's pearl censored requiem 'tis for us what joys run then brighten your eyes, what flower spangled amores pull at our hearts, what flower spangled amores fill our desires. It's a little bit of a love song here. Mm-hmm and he's like why is he singing My is my son singing that love song to this girl child so anyway. And then we get this like kind of like it almost feels like a whiplash revelation here from Paul a single stark thought dominating his awareness my mother is my enemy she does not know it but she is she is bringing the jihad she bore me she trained me she is my enemy like man did not expect that no and yeah I'm not sure completely how to interpret that. Obviously you know Paul's the biggest concern he has is that jihad from occurring and I don't know if he kind of you know thinks of his mother as kind of being the first step towards that jihad, you know, by kind of breaking the will of the Bene Jezuret by bearing a son as opposed to kind of you know having a girl instead. I think that's part of it. I also think um we've may have glossed over this a little bit over the last couple of chapters, but where she said that part about you know she'd be suitable for a concubine but not a wife of a duke, right? So she keeps talking about and then the the fervor and religious fanaticism of the Freeman being harnessed into a weapon for reclaiming his title. So she's very much focused on that reclamation of their place in the Imperium, which will of a necessity be conflict, right? So I think that's why probably if we if we kind of put those two internal monologues together, Paul has realized that that's what his mother's aiming for getting them to a place of prominence in Freeman society and then using the Freeman as a weapon to reclaim their authority and their place in the imperial hierarchy. No that makes sense that's my that's my take on it. I like it. Hmm thank you moving on to our last chapter of today we get a big scene shift we are on Geti Prime the Harkinin Homeworld and it is a celebration nothing but good times. Fade Rotha 17 huzzah huzzah and he will be killing his 100th slave gladiator in the family games. You know he already did he already killed his hundredth oh yes well you know that's a cause for celebration certainly so yeah right we already get this feeling here that uh Getty Prime right if there's one word that is just inextricably linked with the Harkinens it is decadence and like the kind of rotten decadence that comes with like this late stage empire kind of thing, right? Where those things are kind of just like disgusting and repellent to those with ethics. So anyway, we also finally get introduced to Count and Lady Fenring who were mentioned previously where the Count Fenring was perhaps the emperor's only friends yeah he was they were previously on Arrakis and the Lady Fenring was the one who left the note for Lady Jessica Benny Jezeret herself so yes uh they they are in the city is this a little on the nose the city of Harko uh you know where the Harkoonens are from. So the illusion of gaiety banners flew new paint splashed on the walls along way but the Count and his ladies saw the price guards everywhere weapons with that special sheen that told a trained eye they were in regular use and the way their eyes watched and watched and watched so so yeah right it's like uh you know if you remember back when this may be offensive, I don't know, when Beijing hosted the uh the Olympic Games right they like shut down all the factories in the area to get rid of the smog like leading off to it and they kind of cleared up the area around the uh the stadium stuff like that it's kind of the same idea right like this is obviously a city where there's like some corruption going on and uh they're just kind of whitewashing everything. Alright that that does make sense just in terms of you know you got it's all it's all about appearances, right? So it's the that whole idea of the baron not wanting the Duke to kind of be killed out of hand, you know, because if that happens then all the royal families could be similarly killed. So so Count Fenring is kind of interesting, right? He's uh they they keep referring to him as the Emperor's uh or the Panesha Emperor's errand boy so so he does have a certain amount of authority and uh able to convey certain messages perhaps so we get a lot of there's a lot of interesting conversation in this in this chapter with that involved Counting Lady Fenring. And so they uh God it's just such weird verbal ticks here. But uh it definitely put me in mind of like a simpering aristocrat in the way that he affects it. Yes the hmm precise young man oh my dear right very unpleasant yes which I think is it's one of his tactics to kind of maybe put people off their uh off their poise a little bit and get them to mess up. So we get a description a physical description of Lady Fenring here first. Golden haired and willowy perfection of figure clothed in a flowing gown of ecru, simple fitness of form without ornament gray green eyes stared back at him. She had that Benny Gesserit serene repose about her that the young man found subtly disturbing and he's like my dear Baron you say you've spoken of to this precise young man. What did you say? And uh we always get the the Baron is kind of notorious for these internal monologues that he doesn't give voice to mark him well Fayed a killer with that manner of with the manners of a rabbit the most dangerous kind So right kind of puts you off your guard. And we get a description of the count here as well small man, weak looking the face was weaselish with over large eyes, grey at the temples and his movements he moved a hand or turned his head one way then he spoke another way it was difficult to follow. And I like this this next sentence here is mmm it's like it's like most of the line of the text here you come upon such mmm preciseness so rarely the count said addressing the Baron's shoulder which just to illustrate exactly what they're talking about here. So it's like in my mind I kind of imagine someone who like doesn't make eye contact the whole time they're talking to you which can be a little off putting sometimes no I agree. Yeah the the this whole interaction just made me yeah like this uncomfortable crawling on my skin with all these verbal affectations. I like this part here he's very good at like saying things without being straight out it's like was that an insult kind of moments. So he says to the Baron I uh congratulate you on the perfection of your uh air in the light of the elder one might say you were too kind the Baron said he bowed but Fayed Rotha noted that his uncle's eyes did not agree with the courtesy when you're ironic that uh suggests that you're thinking deep thoughts the count said so it's like is he referring to himself or to the Baron? Right. And then even Fade Rotha like has the thought like it sounds like he's being insulting but there's nothing you can call out for satisfaction. So again it's just there there's that kind of not one-to-one lineup of what the words are meaning to how they're being interpreted that Stufer was kind of having with the Fremen all the way back in the first book yes and then uh Faye being seventeen and stupid not not that stupid not as stupid as uh Rabin says uh by the horse of the imperial harem she's a lovely one I shall make a kill for you this day my lady I shall make the dedication in the arena with your permission and she says you do not have my permission and the Baron's like does does he that imp does he want this deadly count to call him out but the count only smiled but said it's it's a goofy thing. Yes So he walks out and we get this indication there's a bunch of other minor families around here right a lot of audience Lady Fenry was saying can that be the young man the Reverend Mother meant? Is that a bloodline we must preserve? And so they are needing to get to business now it sounds like the account is not just here for for the celebration. He's here to get some information. Yeah they're able to kind of step away and take some refuge in a cone of silence between two pillars so that they can't be overheard and they also direct their speech towards the walls so that nobody can read their lips again just making sure that they are not being spied upon so we get some some definite back and forth here with these two and the comment basically opens it saying we're not satisfied that with the way you ordered the Sardacar off Arrakis that's like Baron thinks straight talk so he kind of immediately stops using that like that like a Jeff Goldblum style talking. Yeah that's that's accurate actually now that's that's pretty that's well done so he's uh basically saying like oh we didn't want the emperor's involvement to be discovered and uh the kind's like well we're worried about the Freeman problem and uh they're talking about how well we don't right so the Harkinans are still under this impression that there aren't that many Freemen and there apparently are those who disagree with them. So they talk about how the southern desert is uninhabitable the northern is swept regularly by our patrols and he's like who says it's uninhabitable it's like your own planetologist said it my dear count but Dr. Kines is dead ah yes unfortunate that and uh the count says there was uh an overflight evidence of plant life and he's like who did you get that information from essentially and uh basically says that uh it was a smuggler the Baron says like someone's lying so and I like this part navigation markers the kind says we'll discuss various types of static another time the count said so I I find that interesting right because like there's just like like static being like a communications problem if you will so I find that interesting and some more things. Yeah this whole next back and forth is great. It's like have you found some mistake in my accounting then the Baron asked when you imagine mistakes there could be no self defense the count said just jab after jab after jab. Right. And they talk about uh the emperor cannot be unhappy about the death of the concubine and the boy they fled into the desert there was a storm. Count says yes there were so many convenient accidents he's not an idiot. Yeah. And then he even says, like, should an unfortunate accident occur to me here. The great houses, all would learn what you did on Arrakis. They've long suspected how you do business. So a little safeguard there for himself. And he's like, the only business I recall is transporting a bunch of Sardacar. Right. And it's like, you think you can hold that over the Emperor's head? And he's like, there are commanders who could be found who would confess they acted without orders. Um and then the Baron's like, Are there Sardacar truly that disciplined? And so they kind of go back to the finances, right? So they're kind of like, they're probing each other, like these verbal jabs, as you said. Uh and the count says, No doubt your books will bear the closest scrutiny. So they talk about the Freeman, they talk about maybe converting Arrakis to a prison planet, and he's like, Don't do that without the Emperor's permission. And uh they also come around to Thufurhawat. Yes. And how he is not dead. He's not dead. He is being employed as the Baron's mentant. The Count even asks, like, was he the real traitor? And I'm surprised the Baron mentions who the real traitor actually was. It was, you know, the false doctor. But uh But it is interesting that he maintains the fiction that he is a false doctor and not that he found a way around the That is clear the conditioning. Yes, yes. So yeah, basically he talks about how he has Thufer kind of under his thumb at the moment, how he's got him more or less poisoned long term, and so it's the continued administration of an antidote that's keeping him alive. The count's like, withdraw the antidote. He needs to die, he knows too much. Right. So they kind of go again, right? They keep going back and forth. You know, it's like I'm not threatening you, but you know, kind of is threatening him. So it goes on and on like this, right? It's it's a it's a great chapter as far as the dialogue goes, as well as the internal monologues. And the barons like, you know, like charge me with treason. It'd be great. Then we could get all the houses together and they'd flock to my banner, like peasants running for shelter. So the Baron says, or the count says first, it's the Emperor's sincere hope he'll never have to charge you with treason, to which he replies, I've been a most loyal subject. These words hurt me beyond my capacity to express. It's just, it's it's very much like, you know, you kind of get this flavor of like aristocracy, courtier type, you know, backstabbery going on here. So it very much is like a very politicking saying, you know, as they say here in the text, double meaning, double meaning. So they kind of wrap up this conversation here, and they move on to the gladiator arena, essentially. Yes. Although they get this one last jab as they as they leave. They're on their way out, and the count says, I um filled only with a sense of anticipation, always in the uh process verbal, one um uh must consider the office of origin. The Baron did his sudden stiffening of surprise by stumbling on the first step down from the exit. Process verbal. That was a report of a crime against the Imperium. So just a little last jab there out in the open. Yeah, the Baron even kind of like he dares to make that joke in front of all these minor families. Yes, he chuckles and pats him on the arm, knowing that he can't say anything else right there. And then uh as they're in their carriage on the way from where they were to the to the arena, the kind leans over and says, You know, don't you, that the emperor is not given official sanction to your choice of heir. And again, shocks the Baron. Gotta kind of put him on the back foot here, verbally speaking. That's really why I'm here today. The Emperor wishes me to report on whether you've chosen a worthy successor. So if we finally move on to the arena itself. So we have Fayed Routha emerging onto the sandy floor. Very uh very Colosseum-esque here. A black glove and a long knife in his right hand, white glove and a short knife in his left hand, white for poison, black for purity. A curious custom, isn't it, my love? The Lady Fenring says. The Count replies. In true hearkening fashion, right? Fayed Rotha has uh schemes within schemes here. And so he has switched around the poisoned knife with the unpoisoned knife, so it is in fact the black that is poisoned, not the white. And in addition to that, this man has so normally the uh the gladiators are drugged with uh what do they call it, Eka? Yeah, something like that. Something like that. But they have decided not to drug him inasmuch as they want he wants to pin this on the slave master and get him executed and replace him with his own man. But this was Thufer's idea, and this man had also been trained to, in addition to the poison, if he says the word scum, he will have a moment of immobilization. Alag has a fail-safe for the fight. So that way, you know, should things not go the way that Fayed Roth is hoping, 'cause again, it doesn't seem like he typically fights fully cogent slaves. Yeah, and from the way they describe it, so it's Elaka or Elaka, I don't know. It's made up, I think. But uh anyway, so this drug apparently puts him into like a fighting rage, right? So this guy is not, although he is carrot colored I'm assuming orange. Yes. So he was painted. And he's got green leotards. So we got his this orange guy with a red belt with green leotards. So it's quite a quite an image here.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

And so Christmas.

Bloodlust, Politics, And Breeding Plans

Michael Kentris 1:11:42

Uh something. I don't know. I was thinking more like Umpalompa. Although he is also described as a tall, muscular man with a shaved head and darkly pitted eyes. So uh threatening Oompaloompa. But uh yeah, so Fadroth, it's almost like the way that they describe his is it retinue here, it's almost like kind of matador-esque, if you will. So we've got like you know these people holding barbs and other tools of like slowing down the gladiator. So the man has a bloody scratch on his forearm, drawn in the shape of a hawk gasp in a treaties fighting man. So Fay Roth gets a chill, and he's wondering if Hawat had another plan for this, a faint within a faint, as it were. Right, a chance for Thufur to get a little last revenge. Right, right. So yeah, they kind of start the fight, and the man calls out and is like, Hi Harkonen, are you prepared to die? And uh deathly stillness grips the arena. Slaves did not issue the challenge. So everyone's realizing now that this guy's not drugged like the way he appears to be. But nobody can nobody can stop that. Right, even though his men do keep kind of be like, uh, you want us to like help? And Fade Roth is like, nah, I got this. I'll set my own barbs, I'll fight him. And so yeah. So he does it. Yeah, as far as as far as the fight goes, he puts a barb in the man's arm. He only has like a half shield, apparently. Like his right side is shielded. So another indicator to the crowd in general that he's not drug is that he's taking that into consideration as he's leading with that size. Yes. Exactly. So again, just many indicators that this man is not what he is supposed to be, as far as, you know, this gladiatorial fight. So he puts in two barbs into the man, and the guy just kind of, you know, ignores it. He's kind of doing that mentality of, you know, I'm a dead man already, you know, you can't hurt me. Right. In fact, he even takes that barb and he grabs a pennant and ties it down to his forearm. And actually, as the fight goes on, he uses it to block some of his blows. Mm-hmm. So uh the fight goes back and forth a little bit here, right? He's kind of uh working the crowd up a little bit, and uh he tries to uh like they kind of get like you know, core a core, right, body to body. And the slave is, or I should say the Atreides fighter is trying to bring the poison what he thinks is the poison knife, like down on uh his neck, as like die on your own poison. And then uh this is where Fade Ratha uses his trigger word and causes him to like go slack for just a moment, and then he strikes him with the poisoned blade, the truly poisoned blade. And I like this description here. There was an orthographic thing on his face now for every watcher to recognize. The death was written there, the slave knew it had been done to him, and he knew how it had been done. The wrong blade had carried the poison. And so as he's dying, he kind of sags down, falls down face first, and Fade Rotha kind of goes to flip him over so that everyone can watch the poisons like making his face writhe in pain, right? Just an insight into Fade Rotha's character is that he, you know, he loves to poison and torture his victims in the ring. But as he rolls them over, his own knife is protruding from his breast. And he says here, in spite of frustration, there was for Fayed Rotha a measure of admiration for the effort this slave had managed in overcoming the paralysis to do this thing to himself. So that being said, the audience has been going bananas during this whole thing, right? They are up in bloodlust, and uh we kind of switch back perspectives here to the Baron and the Count and Lady in his box. And so uh the Baron's like thinking, all right, he kind of buys into this, right? He thinks like I'll have the slave master dead over a slow fire this night, and we get this foot-stomping chant coming from the audience now. Head, head, head. And uh basically they are wanting him to cut off the head of his victim here. So a little messed up. Yes, yes. And Fate even gets a little like insulted by it, the thing to honor me with just a head. And so he kind of ends up being like, no, let the slave keep he ends up pulling the knife out of his breast and puts it in his hands, let the slave be buried intact. He earned it. And this kind of helps even further by the kind of favor and adoration of the crowd. Just everyone is truly in awe of Phaedra's performance of right, his whole this whole spectacle. Right. The bloodlust is up. The bloodlust is lustin'. Yes. So the Baron wearily, I shall have to order a fate. You cannot send people home like this. Their energy is unspent. They must see that I share their elation. And so he gives a signal and uh says, In your honor, fade, the baron calls down, and uh basically, you know, everyone's like, you know, rushing rushing the the floor, kind of like after a football game. God. But essentially, they kind of go there, and then we we get a little in their secret humming tongue, the count and the lady, the lad knew the gladiator wouldn't be drugged. There was a moment of fear, yes, but no surprise. And it was planned, he said, the entire performance. It stinks of Hawat, indeed. So I like this here. So they we get a little bit more insight, right? They're talking, we had a hint at it earlier in this chapter. It's like the young one will be more amenable to control. For us after tonight, she says, You don't anticipate difficulties seducing him, my little broodmother. It's a little weird. Yes. It's like now I can see why we must have that bloodline. So yours is the easy part, she said. It's like, there are some ancient prejudices I overcome, you said. They're quite primordial now, right? So they're like, obviously, she's intending to get pregnant by Fade Ratha.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

Yes.

Takeaways And What Comes Next

Michael Kentris 1:18:06

And this is uh apparently something very common to the Bene Gesserit, right? This is how Lady Jessica was conceived, I can only assume. And yeah, somewhat distasteful even to them, it sounds like. So yeah, they're gonna make sure that she gets pregnant, and then they're gonna hop, skip, jump back to wherever they came from, probably. Somewhere in the empire. Yeah. That's right. And she says, there's a Bene Gesserit saying, and he's like, You have sayings for everything, he protested. You'll like this one. It goes, do not count a human dead until you've seen his body, and even then you can make a mistake. Referring to Paul going missing on Arrakis. So there we go. The end of chapter 35. So any final thoughts on this stretch, Will. I'm excited for Paul and I just got to finally get to a larger Fremen audience. I know they've been kind of just focused in the smaller group. So I am interested to see how they actually adapt to Fremen society in general. Yeah, I would agree. We've gotten some good insights as far as like the importance of water, right, which is just something that we're getting hammered with over and over again in different ways. And then we also got some good insight into some of the honor culture and some of the ways in which the the Freeman culture honors its dead, some of their rituals and practices, as well as the way that that those things are dealt with, even with those who might have been killed, as part of a way to mediate disputes among tribe members. So a lot of uh dense cultural information in those scenes earlier. Absolutely. How about you? What are your some of your thoughts, Aaron? So I I too am looking forward to when they get to the the siege and seeing uh how exactly they interact with the broader culture, right? So we know this is one tribe. What does intertribal conflict look like or intertribal disparities? But we also know, forecasting a little bit here, that Jameis has a woman. So what does that mean? Will there be further duties of honor, further fights? How will that affect interactions with Paul and also uh with his budding relationship with Chani? So I think there's a lot of stuff there. Also, we know that the lady Jessica is getting this rank as a Sayadina. So what does that mean in the broader culture, right? They said they have some sort of reverend mother type figure as well. And will she be accepted in? What trials, right? There's going to be trials, there always are. There's no story with no conflicts. So what will be happening on that front, right? There's like the day-to-day kind of mundane aspect, but then we also have this very mystical layer on top of everything else here, as far as like the the prescients that Paul has and the these visions of jihad and so on. So I think that's all, again, right? We're kind of in a rising action stage of things in the story again. So right now we're kind of getting some frameworks for how these things are going to interact with one another. But uh, I'm looking to see, looking forward to seeing how it kind of develops and pays off. Absolutely. Well, thank you all for listening to our ramblings again today. We will be obviously continuing Dune in our next episode. And if you want to get a hold of us, you can find us on X at Brothers Reading. You can find our website, brothersreadingbooks.com, and you can always email us at brothersreadingbooks at gmail.com as well. What did we miss? What did we talk too much about? Give us your feedback, let us know. Do we need to be talking more, talking less? And uh yeah, looking forward to hearing from you all. Well, Will, until next time. All right. Talk to you later, Mike. Bye, Will. Bye.