Dune Part 13 - He Who Controls the Spice

We've done it! 

We are making our way through the final chapters of Dune together, well done! 

While the title does not appear in the books, it does match our episode's theme quite well today as we march into the confrontation between Paul's Fremen and the Emperor's Sardaukar forces. 

Transcript

Michael Kentris 0:06

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Brothers Reading Books. I'll probably have edited out, but if you hear Will laughing, it's because I just flubbed the word hello. So, welcome back, and we are finishing out the end of Dune today. So this is exciting. This is the end of our first book on our podcast, and you know, according to mine, I think we clocked in somewhere in the 900 page mark. I don't know if it's the same for your edition, Will.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

It's slightly different, but you know, it's been out for how long now, how many printings?

Michael Kentris 0:41

That's true. Regardless, it's a fairly long book. Not the longest, but a long book. Yeah, definitely. I feel I feel like we we deserve a pat on the back. Good for us. For not uh pod fading out, as they say. So I'm very pleased that we're able to get through this. And essentially we're finishing out the narrative today. There may be some secondary podcast episodes about the appendixes. I say that specifically, appendixes, as it is listed in the table of contents in my edition here. So we'll see. I think I think we'll probably do it. But we'll call that our denouement episode. But yeah, Will, what are your your first hot thoughts on this section of the book?

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I mean, again, I just to kind of reiterate my my general opinion on this book as a total, I've really enjoyed it. It's been great as far as you know doing a sufficient amount of world building to seem not only real to some extent, but to not also be like uh a deluge of information that keeps people from kind of being unable to sort of process it or willing to delve through it. So it's it's nice to reach reach the end of this narrative and potentially explore the further appendixes if Rice, right. The Frank Herbert is added here.

Michael Kentris 2:06

So, as always, Will, I have to ask you for a few thousand-foot summary for these chapters.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yes. So the first chapter we're covering today, chapter 46 by my count, Paul wakes up from a nap. And then subsequently they kick off the fight against the Harkinans with a bang, and then we finally get a point of view from the Emperor and the Princess Arulin. So the Emperor holds court, and then we tie up some loose ends. And that's that's definitely, I feel, uh very, very uh yeah, kind of less than uh descriptive for that last chapter.

Prophecy Language And Religious References

Chani And Jessica Face The Coma

Michael Kentris 2:45

It's it's a long one. It is a long chapter, and there's a lot of stuff that happens. This just feels like this is just a breakneck race to the finish line as as far as all of the things that are happening. This may be the most like switches of point of view that we have in such a short period of time, but you know, it's it's definitely a page turner as far as this section of the book. So uh I don't think that they disappoint at all. So starting out, you know, we have from the Princess Arulin, we have an extraction here, an excerpt from the collected legends of Arrakis, and I really like this, and I thought there were some interesting references in here. And it came to pass in the third year of the desert war that Paul Muadib lay alone in the cave of birds beneath the Kiswa hangings of an inner cell, and he lay as one dead, caught up in the revelation of the water of life, his being translated beyond the boundaries of time by the poison that gives life. Thus was the prophecy made true that the Lisan Al Ghib might be both dead and alive. So, you know, this we're back in the cave of birds, right? When when last we left Paul, he was uh trying out some new psychedelics, right? The water of life, and basically has gone into this comatose state, it sounds like. So some of these words here, right, we just kind of gloss over them a little bit, I think. Like so there's these Kiswa hangings. So I I had to look this up. This was something I was not familiar with. And apparently these are uh black and gold cloth curtains or coverings that cover the uh the koaba, and I apologize again for my pronunciation. This is that cube-shaped building in Mecca, which contains the black stone, which is a relic in Islam that supposedly fell from paradise. So it has these, first of all, a significance in as much as like they're kind of intimating that there is something holy, something otherworldly going on here. And then we also have this other bit here, the phrase, he lay as one dead, right? And you can just tell. Sometimes uh, you know, Herbert just borrows these little phrases that just they kind of have that King James flavor to them, you know? And so this is very similar to a line from the book of Revelation, which we haven't really, you know, hit on in all of our previous references very much. You know, we've been kind of more Old Testament, so now we're kind of you know at the end of the New Testament here. So this is similar to a phrase from Revelation 1, chapter 1, verse 17, and the quote from the King James here, since that's what he's used in the past. For those who aren't as familiar, the Revelation of John is one of those prophetic style books, which means there's a lot of strange and confusing imagery. And some people have described in the past as like he was taken up into this whirlwind of visions, a nexus, if you will, which I think is a very appropriate description for Paul, given how they've described his visions, right, as this time nexus with all the paths weaving in and out. So I think that was a very appropriate intimation of what he is experiencing here. So I just thought that was interesting as far as some of the connections. And again, we have this kind of syncretic merging of different faith traditions as well in the description of this event. So right out of the gate, I'm I'm already enthralled by some of the interesting imagery going on. So moving into the actual narrative. So we've got Chani, she has been summoned to see her mate, Muadib. And uh so she's come up from the south, and they sent a Thopter, so there's this implication that something significant is happening.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Right. We had previously discussed how Paul wanted to keep the Thopters in reserve until the final kind of confrontation because they are such a valuable resource in this case.

Michael Kentris 6:41

Yes. So so as we're going along, right, she's just is asking herself over and over again, you know, why is he summoning me? So she has this feeling of uncertainty that's building over the course of these initial pages here. And I like that they they're using Shawnee as a way to, I think, emphasize the humanity of Paul, right? The like the complexity of any human person, right? Even like terrible dictators and murderers, you know, probably had someone who loved them, right? You know, like that phrase, you know, face that only a mother could love, that kind of idea. Where there's there's always someone in that person's life who sees them as a human and not necessarily as that religious, larger than life legendary figure.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think we definitely see that play forward here a little bit, right as we'll soon see. Right.

Michael Kentris 7:31

Yeah, I like this little phrase here, which I think makes that pretty explicit. You know, his name might be a battle cry all over all the land, Muadib, Muadib, Muadib, but she knew a different man by a different name, the father of her son, the tender lover. So so anyway, I think that's that's essentially what they're using her character as at this point in time, is to kind of emphasize the dichotomy in our main protagonist here. So she kind of just keeps going along, climbing up the passage, and essentially she gets brought to Jessica. And so we get a bit of a long interplay here, which I think is intentionally long. And so we uh we get this what they call the ritual greeting. So Jessica's asking, like, how's my grandson? Right? Uh he is healthy and happy, my mother. I left him with Aliyah in the care of Hera. And so, right, it's uh it's just this little like back and forth about mundane things like, oh, how are you doing? How's the family? Right? Like kind of these these ritual, which I think you see in some some of these honor cultures more often, where you don't get right to business, right? You start off with with small talk. You know more about Japanese culture than I do, Will. I think this is something fairly common in East Asian culture. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I think that's a fair statement to say. At the very least, I know with Japanese, it's very much a case of, yeah, you do have this sort of style of indirect communication to avoid being blunt and being kind of seen as rude in that regard. So I don't know necessarily if it's the same thing here, just because it does seem like Jessica is, like you said, she's definitely dancing around the topic. And I don't know if it's necessarily a case of trying to be polite, although there is certainly a distance between both her and Tani. She still really hasn't accepted the fact that Paul kind of views her as a wife or a wife figure. But uh at the very least, it does seem like Jessica is kind of trepidatious about just coming out and saying what she has been summoned for. Right.

Michael Kentris 9:33

So they they go back and forth a little bit. And then we get this statement near the end of that back and forth from Jessica saying grief is the price of victory. And then uh basically she eventually comes out and says, I summoned you. So she finally says it after, let's see, like three pages of dialogue. So So they're they're talking here, and I should say there was an important little piece here that kind of gives us some intimation about how the battle is going. Jessica says, New victories, Rabin has sent cautious overtures about a true about his truce, but he is too late. The people know he does it out of fear of us. And so they were basically so we get this indication that the freemen are basically being very successful in their war, right? So this is if we think back to the intro of this chapter, this is the third year of their open war against the Harkinans. So so uh then Shani says, Look, well the message was signed by Muadib, and I signed it in the presence of his lieutenants. It was a necessary subterfuge. I like this phrase here. You are needed here to help me revive Paul, Jessica said, and she thought, there, I said it in the precisely correct way, revive. Thus she knows Paul is alive and knows there is peril, all in the same word. And right, we get both of these women here, we get this internal monologue where they're like internally screaming, but uh trying to maintain this very poised outward appearance between each other. So I think kind of to your point earlier, Will, how Jessica is not necessarily accepting of Chani as Paul's wife, there are a lot of parallels between these two characters in terms of like their their temperament and skills and so forth.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

That and also I would also say with regard to their legal status, I suppose, to their respective Dukes. Like obviously, you know, Lady of Sco was never officially married to Duke Leto, you know, she was his concubine, and it seems like Chani, at the moment at least, is definitely kind of inhabiting that same role. So definitely similar parallels between the two of them.

Michael Kentris 11:46

Yes. So we get a middlemore description. So Jessica thinks he's been poisoned, at the only explanation that seems to fit. A most unusual poison. I have examined his blood in the most subtle ways without detecting it. He's unconscious, the processes of his life are so low that they can be detected only with the most refined techniques. I shudder to think what could have happened had I not been the one to discover him. He appears dead to the untrained eye. So Chani's now wondering, like, well, you're the Reverend Mother, I'm one of the Cyadina. What do you want me to do, essentially?

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Mm-hmm.

Michael Kentris 12:17

Um I basically she says I had a hunch. So she had a hunch that Chani might know something to do. And that was the only reason that we get.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Right, yeah. She says it was an instinct, a basic intuition. The thought came unbidden, send for Chani. And it is interesting because obviously, you know, with that water of life, which it sounds like Paul did also in Bibe, or at least the water of the maker.

Michael Kentris 12:42

I'm a little confused on Well, I think it's the maker's water, and then uh once you change it, that's the water of life, I believe. That's my perception of it, at least. That's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

But it sounds like with the water of life, there's some sort of subtle sort of mind linkage that happens between everybody. Right. So it could be potentially that somehow that thought came from Paul.

Michael Kentris 13:11

Right. And they I think they do reference this back in the chapter where Jessica became a reverend mother, and also sometime in sometimes in Paul's internal monologue where he's having his visions, they talk about like kind of the race memory of humanity and things like that. Like there is some sort of subconscious memory that is ingrained in like our DNA essentially. That's kind of how I take it. It's kind of got this like scientific-mystical kind of mix-up going on there. So yeah. Yeah, I I mean, you know, there's there's probably no like real explanation there. But um but yeah, I think it's that's that's the way I take it at least. I like it. So we get a description now. They they take uh Jessica takes Chani to Paul, and they see he's laying on a field pad against the far wall. A black robe covered him to the chest, leaving his arms outside, it stretched along his sides. He appeared to be unclothed under the robe. The skin exposed looked waxen, rigid. There was no visible movement to him. And again, right, we get this parallel where Jessica once had faced such a moment, her man threatened by death. So again, right, they're just kind of emphasizing that parallel between these two characters, like two women, both involved in this man's life at different stages, but with similar life experiences.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

And it's interesting, because yeah, right after they bring Shani, Jessica is kind of yet reasserting herself yet again. Like he lives, I assure you, he lives. But the threat of his life is so thin it could easily escape detection. So I've seen you know there's this whole ceremony about reclaiming water. So the last thing they want to do is accidentally start this sort of reclamation. Like break his body down.

Michael Kentris 14:55

Yeah. Yeah. Render him down for his water. And so yeah, and that's you know, right after that part you read, there are some among the leaders already muttering that the mother speaks and not the reverend mother, that my son is truly dead, and I do not want to give up his water to the tribe. So it's kind of exactly that, that she's not thinking as a leader, she's thinking as a mother. And basically her her grief is clouding her judgment. So he's been like this for three weeks, we learn. Johnny kind of goes into like this clinical mode here. How does he take nourishment? She asks. The demands of his flesh are so slight he does not yet need food. And so, who knows? Only the closest lieutenants, leaders, etc. And the Phaedican, so this I think is interesting. They believe Paul is in a sacred trance, gathering his holy powers before the final battles. This is a thought I've cultivated. So right, we kind of get that continued Bene Gesserit leaning on religious mysticism to influence people, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Absolutely. I mean, that is the MO of the Bene Gesserit.

Reviving Paul With Maker Water

Michael Kentris 15:57

So here we go. We get uh, you know, she leans in, right? She smells that ubiquitous spice still. So Chani says, You're not born to the spice as we were. Have you investigated the possibility that his body has rebelled against too much spice in his diet? And allergy reactions are all negative. Um they're kind of having like a back and forth about like, you know, what kind of, you know, what's what assessments have you done, what testing, etc., etc. And she asks, Is there a maker here? And Jessica says, There are several. We are never without them these days. Each victory requires its blessing, each ceremony before a raid. Uh and then Shawnee interrupts, but Paul Muadib has held himself aloof from these ceremonies. And Jessica asks, How do you know this? And she replies, it is spoken. And she says, Too much is spoken bitterly. So then she says, Get me the raw water of the maker. And we uh we get this thing here, so this is interesting. So she holds out a plain camp ewer cup, or pitcher, if you will, E W E R, just for those who are listening. The charged odor of the poison was sharp in Chani's nostrils. She dipped a finger in the fluid, held the finger close to Paul's nose. The skin along the bridge of his nose wrinkled slightly. Slowly the nostrils flared. And he dro Chani touched the dampened finger to Paul's upper lip. He drew in a long, sobbing breath. What is this? Jessica demanded. Be still, Chani said. You must convert a small amount of the sacred water quickly. Without questioning, because she recognized the tone of awareness in Chani's voice, Jessica lifted the oar to her mouth, drew in a small sip. Paul's eyes flew open. He stared upward at Chani. It is not necessary for her to change the water, he said. His voice was weak but steady.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Basically giving him some maker smelling salts to pull him out.

Michael Kentris 17:47

Kind of, yeah, right. So we learned Paul said so they're like, You drank the sacred water? And it's like, one drop of it, so small, one drop. And they're like, How could you be so foolish? So this is interesting here, right? When I had the drop in my mouth, when I felt it and smelled it, when I knew what it was doing to me, then I knew I could do the thing that you have done, he said. Your Benny Gesserit proctors speak of the Quisatz Hatterac, but they cannot begin to guess the many places I've been. In the few minutes I he broke off. And he's like, I'm so weak. How long have I been here? And so it was three weeks in a coma so deep the spark of life seemed to have fled. So I wanted to take aside here, I forgot to mention it at the beginning. So this is kind of a a common trope described in the hero's journey, right? The uh katabasis or katabasis, pardon my pronunciation. I should be able to do this when it's Greek. Let me let me look back here. Katabasis Catabasis. Um or catabasis, if I say it with my American accent on. So it's a it's it is a descent into the underworld, essentially, right? So or to death. Oh, we see something like with Orpheus and his descent into Hades, Hercules with his descent into Hades, you know, other mythical features like, you know, uh, I think uh Gilgamesh. So a lot of these ancient mythic figures have this descent into the underworld, they're transformed, they come back with new knowledge and skills, right? And so this is a very common trope in the hero's journey where there is some sort of transformation after passing through death. You could even make an argument that, I mean, you know, like Jesus Christ, right, descended into Hades, rose again, right? So it's it's a very common pattern that we see playing out in religion and myth. And we see it also being brought here, right? So he has descended into a death-like state and now has arisen again, and as we will soon learn, with new abilities and knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, he definitely has been changed even further beyond what his capabilities were prior, which again, those were also very impressive. But this was sort of the impetus for him wanting to drink the maker of the water in the first place, was to have something stronger than the spice, too. Kind of start this mind's psychedelic journey.

Michael Kentris 20:15

He needed something stronger. So so yeah, uh so as they're they're talking, uh, it was only one drop, but I converted it, Paul said. I changed the water of life. And before Chani or Jessica could stop him, he dipped his hand into the oer they had placed on the floor beside him, and he brought the dripping hand to his mouth, swallowed the palm cupped lip liquid. Paul Jessica screamed.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

So it's just funny.

Michael Kentris 20:38

Like we got this guy who's like winning to come over three weeks uh after one drop of this stuff, and he just like and he just grabs a handful of it. Like, see? Look, anyway, it's just kind of amusing in terms of like uh because he's probably like what in his late teens, early twenties at this point. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah, he's either like 17 or 18, I think.

Michael Kentris 20:58

Right. He was because I think he was 15, 16 at the beginning of of the narrative. I mean, it jumped forward, so he's probably close to 20 on either side of it. Um so he's still a young man, and as we know, young men can be somewhat impulsive. So I don't know, to me, it's just kind of an amusing picture that we have this like very serious scene, and then this happens.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, no, and again, it kind of I feel like there's something that was brought up a while ago with Stilgar talking about how it's like, hey, don't do anything flashy when you're riding the worm. Like men are prone to these sort of wild spirits, you know, they think they're invincible, and again, we kind of just see that here yet again with right Paul throwing caution to the wind.

Michael Kentris 21:47

Right. And this is, I mean, if we want to take a slight diversion, sometimes this is referred to in like uh the Aristotelian vision of the soul or the human, right? Because we have our logos. our rational mind. And then we've got our thumos, our our spirit, our fiery spirit, our passion. But I shouldn't say passion. Passion is actually something that passion are like base instincts, like what the beasts have. But the thumo is that thing that's drive, it pushes you to do things. And so you need to rightly direct it by virtue of your rational mind, your logos broadly speaking, right? So I mean that's kind of like a I think that's a pretty common element in most stories involving young men is that they do something rash and foolish and then they have to spend time making amends for it, and then they end up wiser, assuming they survive their ordeals. Right. Anyway so we get this this bit here. Paul says you speak of a place where you cannot enter this place which the Reverend Mother cannot face, show it to me. She shook her head, terrified by the very thought show it to me, he commanded anyway sorry. So uh there's yeah we get some some spacey description here. Paul's consciousness flowed through and around her and into the darkness. She glimpsed the place dimly before her mind blanked itself away from the terror. Without knowing why, her whole being trembled at what she had seen, a region where a wind blew and sparks glared, where rings of light expanded and contracted, where rows of tumescent white shapes flowed over and under and around the lights, driven by darkness and a wind out of nowhere. I love that word tumescent looking so anyway so basically like yeah afterwards like Jessica staggered, she's tired, and they're kind of talking about this so they they realized you know through it all threaded the realization that her son was the Quis Hatteratch, the one who could be many places at once. He was the fact out of the Benny Jesseret dream and the fact gave her no peace. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

And kind of solidifying the fact that yeah he's not going to have an easy life which I mean not to say that's been easy up to this point regardless, but yeah.

Michael Kentris 24:13

Yes. And uh we get a little speech here from Paul, which I have notated as the two wolves speech so Paul says there is in each of us an ancient force that takes and an ancient force that gives a man finds little difficulty facing that place within himself where the taking force dwells but it's almost impossible for him to see into the giving force without changing into something other than man. For a woman the situation is reversed. Right? Two wolves. So the giving wolf and the taking wolf yes so and this is what I was thinking about when I was talking about with the cell memory. So Paul also goes on to say these things are so ancient within us that they're ground into each separate cell of our bodies and so basically saying it's like it's perilous to look at that part of yourself that you are not normally attuned to. The greatest peril to the giver is the force that takes, the greatest peril to the taker is the force that gives it's as easy to be overwhelmed by giving as by taking and then I like this. And you, my son, Jessica asked are you one who gives or one who takes I'm at the fulcrum he said I cannot give without taking and I cannot take without he broke off looking to the wall at his right so we learn that someone was observing.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

So one of his lieutenants here, Otham was listening in and now they're like uh you know his legend grows essentially right they're gonna go and gossip about like oh he came out of the coma and now he's talking about this other prophetic sort of vision that he's had so like you said just kind of building an even greater sort of what's trying to think of the word that they used earlier but yeah like an aura of yes fanaticism I suppose.

Death Descent And New Powers

The Spice Destruction Threat

Scouting The Emperor As Storm Builds

Michael Kentris 26:02

Yeah no very true very true so so yeah um and what's this air? You have seen the future Paul Jessica said will you say what you have seen? And he says not the future I've seen the now capital N now the space above Arrakis is filled with the ships of the guild the Potasha Emperor himself is there, with his favorite truthsayer in five legions of Sartakar. The old Baron Vladimir Harkin is there with Thuferhawat beside him and seven ships jammed with every conscript he could muster. Every great house has its raiders above us waiting. And so we learn a little bit more about the guild and like basically the guild is not allowing them to land just yet. And Jessica asked the guild's protecting us and he's like protecting us the guild itself caused this by spreading tales about what we do here and by reducing troop transport fares to a point where even the poorest houses are up there now waiting to loot us. So so now we get some of so right so this is like the the new knowledge and the new abilities that Paul has has come back from his coma journey with and we get now the outlines of his plan, which is kind of like almost like a dead man's switch kind of plan essentially, right? A mutually assured destruction, if you will. Paul takes a deep breath Mother you must change a quantity of the water for us. We need the catalyst Johnny have a scout force sent out to find a pre-spice mass if we plant a quantity of the water of life up above a pre-spice mass, do you know what will happen? And then Jessica weighs his words, suddenly saw through to his meeting The water of death, he said it'd be a chain reaction spreading death among the little makers, killing a vector of the life cycle that includes the spice and the makers Arrakis will become a true desolation without spice or maker so and then Paul says who can destroy a thing has the real control of it we can destroy the spice So very interesting. So he's basically come to this realization that they need spice to run the guild and we get some more things here right about the guild navigators, men who can quest ahead through time, find the safest course for the fastest Highliners, all of them seeking me and unable to find me how they tremble. They know I have their secret here Paul had out held out his cupped hand. Without the spice they're blind so kind of these things they've hinted at a little bit here with respect to the the guildsmen and their need for spice. And I think it gets spelled out a little more explicitly later on as we go. But uh yeah basically he is taking the nuclear option if you will mutually assured destruction. Yes so basically saying like you know we gotta we gotta move they're getting desperate now is the time. So we get a little jump forward in time here. We get another passage from Arrakis Awakening by the Princess Arulin. I don't remember not yet we don't meet her yet. Soon soon and that day dawned when Arrakis lay at the hub of the universe with the wheel poised to spin from Arrakis Awakening by the Princess Arulin. So we get uh Stilgar and Paul, you know, in a you know rock formation here they're crouched in the rocks and they're looking down at the camp of the Panasha Emperor and the Baron and the I think the Chome C H O A Mm conglomerate whatever their name is and basically what are they a single metal hutmint which I had to look up hut hutment is right it's one of those words that you're like is that a real word? And it is apparently it just basically means like a military structure. Military hut I guess right so it is many stories tall reached out in a thousand meter circle from the base of the lighter a tent composed of interlocking metal leaves the temporary lodging place for five legions of Sardakar and his Imperial Majesty the Potasha Emperor Shaddam IV. So basically we get um they're doing some scouting here and they are talking about their battle plans. And I like this little part here as they're right they're because they're behind the shield wall in this area, right? This is the same area where the Duke Leto was under attack from Sartakar and the Barons forces previously so we have this inversion from the beginning of the story now here at the end where it is Paul and the Freeman attacking that same location with their enemies now ensconced in a base there. So it's kind of like this whole full circle thing. So I thought that was very well done. Right very appropriate considering of the sequences of events that have happened from then to now and I think that's illustrated a little more explicitly where you know Paul he swings the telescope to scan the far wall of the basin seeing the pockmarked cliffs, the slides that mark the tombs of so many of his father's troopers and he had a momentary sense of the fitness of things, the shades of those men should look down on this moment. So I think that's pretty explicit as far as that goes but uh but yeah I think that was it's it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

I also like how kind of continuing the sort of behavior change we got from Paul with his sort of arrogance and being able to sort of convert the water still guards trying to you know also offer up some caution here like hey it's starting to get light out we should probably fall back and Paul just says to him I'm perfectly safe here and it's like that shit mounts projectile weapons. They believe us protected by shields they wouldn't waste a shot on an unidentified trio even if they saw us. So again just it's it's hard to tell what is known versus what he's just assuming.

Michael Kentris 31:59

Just bravado essentially exactly yeah I like this here because to that point right that they might try a sortie by Thopter if they see us let them we've thopters to burn today and we know a storm is coming. I really like that line because like we know a storm is coming it has this real double meaning because there is in fact a literal storm coming but there's also the you know the storm of events you know met metaphorically come. A grandmother of a storm a great a grand grand grandmother I believe they say at some point so so I I really like the the double entendres here with respect to that. And so like we get another Guarney comes out and says like we should be getting undercover. The storm is coming it's like you know it's an actual storm guys. Yes. So I just thought that was I don't know I find that amusing sometimes definitely so they go back into their little base there and they're having some back and forth about communications. We get a little description of the base here right there's a a communications cluster under some camouflage and they're basically talking about um the sequence of events that they expect to unfold here. And so if we think back to previously right they've captured some Sardacar and so they are saying here our pet sar have been released near old gap, low on the rim and are on their way to their master. The rocket launchers and other projectile weapons are in place. The people are deployed as you ordered it was all routine so basically they're like kind of sending the right they're feeding this let's just not say false, but maybe deceptive information to the emperor and his troops that Paul Muadib, you know, Duke Treatise lives. And so they are yeah here we go to that storm common here. A great grandmother of a storm is coming Stilgar said can you not feel it Muadib it's like the air does feel chancy. But uh we kind of go forward a little bit here and we get I like this they they kind of are hassling Gurney a little bit here about being uh gloomy and it's like if they'll let us choose the time desperate people are the most dangerous Gurney said are we not desperate Stilgar asks Gurney scowls at him and Paul says you haven't lived with a Freeman dream still is thinking of all the water we've spent on bribes, the years of waiting we've had before can bloom he's not it's like Gurney scowls. Why is he so gloomy Stilgar asks and then Paul says he's always gloomy before battle it's the only form of good humor Gurney allows himself so for those listening you know you've probably heard various cats so I know Will has his his orange tabby with him. Yes and my cat just made an appearance here as well so if you hear any meowing just know that it is the various cats within our various households.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yes. So anyway they they sleep most of the day but now choose to make their appearance very true very true.

Michael Kentris 34:55

Why is he so gloomy Stilgar asked he's always gloomy before battle it's the only form of good humor Gurney allows himself and uh basically he says it glooms me much to think on all the poor hearkening souls we will dispatch unshriven he said. Astilgar chuckles he talks like a Faticin and then Paul says Gurney was born a death commando so they're having a little a fun uh back and forth there I think so but I like this so this is again right we get an old fashioned phrase here right unshriven right uh I think this is more like you know Middle English but essentially like a shriver or a shrivener I think was a someone who like a a priest confessor, right? So they're they're going unconfessed.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Okay.

Michael Kentris 35:39

To death so anyway, uh a little tongue in cheek there. So so they're talking now about again the literal nuclear option here the atomics.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yes.

Michael Kentris 35:49

Using them to blast a hole in the shield wall. Those people up there won't use atomics against us. They don't dare and for the same reason they can't risk our destroying the source of the spice. But the injunction I shouldn't I shouldn't say gurney like that. The injunction Paul Barks it's fear not the injunction that keeps the houses from hurling atomics against each other. The language of the Great Convention is clear enough use of atomics against humans shall be cause for planetary obliteration. We're going to blast the shield wall not humans.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

So point of order that's right I got something to argue in the court of law about being destroyed.

Michael Kentris 36:25

Right. So yeah and now they're talking about their troops here we got the city men and they're like I don't know if I trust you know trust them city men Costillor says and uh he comes back say I know what you mean still but the test of a man isn't what you think he'll do, it's what he actually does. These city people have Freeman blood. It's just that they haven't yet learned how to escape their bondage we'll teach them. And essentially like Paul says their hate is fresh and clear. That's why we use them as shock troops right so basically they've been in the settlements that uh Rabin has been you know oppressing for the last several years and so they are real mad. Right. Right? I mean to be fair they've taxed them they've taken their women they've killed their men so yeah they're they got real fresh hate. So yes shock troops sounds appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Alright I feel a little bad for them just because like you said they're going to be the shock troops so they're going in first and not nearly as competent in combat so realistically a lot of them are going to get mowed down but to Polynko's defense it seems like they are very much aware of what they are signing up for.

Michael Kentris 37:34

So yeah and Paul says here they were told the odds they know every Sardacar they kill will be one less for us. You see gentlemen they have something to die for they've discovered they're a people they're awakening Arrakis awakens. Arrakis awakening but you know this kind of reminds me of I think it's a I think it's a patent quote but I might be misattributing the goal isn't to die for what you're fighting for it's to make the other person let's keep it PG the other person die for what he is fighting for. Mm-hmm Anyway so they're watching the camp and all of a sudden there is a commotion and so their Sardacar have arrived and delivered their message and they're watching to see if the Emperor will recognize Paul's claim by running up the Atredius flag and so basically he's going to use this as their judgment to decide are they going to attack just the Harkin base or are they going to attack also the Sardacar? So if the Emperor acknowledges Paul, right? So they send up a flag. The flag is yellow with a black and red circle in the center. Paul says there's a subtle piece of business the Chome Company flag and Stilgar says I don't understand, which is good because I didn't either no a subtle piece of business indeed Gurney said had he sent up the Atreides banner he'd have had to live by what that meant too many observers about he could have signaled with the Harkin flag on his staff, a flat declaration that that have been but no, he sends up the Chome rag. He's telling the people up there, Gurney points towards space, where the prophet is he's saying he doesn't care if it's an Atreides here or not. So we get so we get Stilgard back and he's like When's the storm coming? It's a great great grandmother of a storm perhaps even more than you wished. It's my storm Paul said and he saw the silent awe on the faces of the Fedakin who heard him though it shook the entire world it could not be more than I wished will it strike the shield wall full on close enough to make no difference. So they're waiting right they're going to attack under the cover of the storm. And I like this part here right they have their projectiles their gunners setting their sights and locking in on the ships before they lose visibility. So I think that's a that's a clever bit of storytelling right there. It's like you know it got locked in it's a stationary target. Yeah. And as soon as the storm rolls in we're gonna blast the nose off these ships so they can't escape. Like you're trapped trapped like rats. So I think it's it's a very clever little bit of uh tactical planning there.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Mm-hmm I mean very much kind of like what I think it was Gurney Hallikan mentioned several chapters ago how you know they are an immobile target who have like hunkered down behind their walls and defenses. So it's like okay we're winning this because they are not actively seeking to kind of fight back at this point.

Atomics Loopholes And Shock Troops

Michael Kentris 40:34

Right. So right we've got the storm with the sand that's going to drop the shields so once the shields are down then we blast them then we attack. So so as they go on here and they're kind of doing a a feint within a feint some are right there's been some sorties here and so some of the people are using body shields so they're trying to give them a false sense of the tactics that they're using, right? Because you know you and I know dear listener that the Freemen do not use shields in the open desert nor do they usually use them even in the basins. It is for weak outworlders. So they're doing this to I think put them off their game a little bit. And then we get someone saying a great great great grandmother of a storm right so this is a big storm apparently category cat five incoming. So once they lose communications we're getting no messages much static as so now Paul shouts so Gurney depresses a blast trigger and then they it seemed that a full second passed before they felt the ground beneath them ripple and shake a rumbling sound was added to the storm's roar so we get this shield wall is breached the storm is on them our gunners already are firing and so basically they're talking about uh you know leave the leave the equipment let's move and basically uh Paul's like one of his Fatikans says freemen do not like to abandon equipment in what deep it's like men are more important than equipment now. We'll have more equipment than we can use soon or have no need for any equipment. Right? So it's like basically you know do or die. So we get a message incoming here and uh it's static, right? Raid dot dot dot on siege taber dot dot dot captives Aaliyah blank families of blank dead are blank they son of Muadib. The message is garbled, Gurney said the static you don't know that it's like my son is dead Paul said and knew as he spoke that it was true. My son is dead and Aaliyah is a captive hostage. He felt emptied a shell without emotions everything he touched brought death and grief. It was like a disease that could spread across the universe. He could feel the old man wisdom, the accumulation out of the experiences from countless possible lives. Something seemed to chuckle and rub its hands within him. So yeah, grim you know so little Leto appears to have been killed in one of the raids here. And we get some more details about that after we change perspectives here.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yes so we're now jumping from Paul we've had Paul here the past few chapters to her old friend the Baron he has been summoned by the Emperor so he's kind of just standing there being demure, mindful. Demure oh wow that's a reference that uh I'm not sure how it'll age but uh yeah he's he's standing there at attention ready for the emperor to kind of make way who sort of right after that comes in the bear the Padashaw Emperor Shaddam IV. Uh so he comes into the throne room and the barons kind of I don't know we we've had this discussion With the Baron before, where he's kind of like a weak person who kind of acts out on cruelty on those within his power. So obviously, with the emperor kind of being the exact opposite of this, you know, he kind of falls into this almost minor role with the emperor, just kind of like trying to avoid detection or causing any sort of slight against the emperor. So we have here the Baron found that he could not ignore the royal person and studied the Emperor for a sign, any clue to the purpose of this audience. The Emperor stood poised, waiting, a slim, elegant figure in a grey Sarakar uniform with silver and gold trim. His thin face and cold eyes reminded the Baron of the Duke Leto long dead. There was that same look of the predatory bird. So yeah, just seems like the Emperor is not pleased to be called to this backwater planet.

Michael Kentris 44:54

As he will explicitly say in just a moment. I want to just make a reference there. Let's see here. So again, right, we we have another at the beginning of this chapter, another passage from Princess of Ruin, from Arrakis Awakening again. And I think this is related a little bit, perhaps, to what we see unfolding here with Aliyah. And Lua Deep stood before them and he said, Though he deemed the captive dead, yet does she live, for her seed is my seed, and her voice is my voice, and she sees under the farthest reaches of possibility, yea, under the vow of the unknowable does she see because of me. Very has a has a very um biblical, you know, religious kind of flavor to it there. Mm-hmm. Just a word here. This is a word. I assume if I have to look up a word, probably other people do too. It's just Salamlic. Um I don't know if you caught this. This is where the the Baron and the Emperor are having their encounter here, is this Salamlik. Yes, it is a room. So it it derives kind of from like Ottoman Turkish nomenclature. And it's basically it's like a courtyard essentially. An area that was for receiving guests. And there was a so this is like for more traditionally like male guests, and um there was another one that would be, I think it was called a haremlik, which was for women and family, kind of just an interesting thing. And there was a similar thing in Hellenic culture, I forget that it was like an Andronikon or something like that, and then a Gainekon, so basically like a man room and a woman room, roughly translated. So anyway, but yes, so yeah, we get this this traditional, right? And it's it's an interesting juxtaposition, right? We know Padashah is kind of a Persian root, and then we get this Turkish word. And so there's like all this, again, all this mishmashing of various cultures together here. And then we get obviously the description of, as you said, the emperor himself wearing a very traditional military uniform. And he's wearing I think they mentioned this in one of the previous passages from The Princess, where he wears this helmet with the imperial crest in gold upon this ebon helmet, right? So he very much leans into that Sardakar reputation as a military person. And we just get like all this description of this room, and it's just like beautiful, right? Just emphasizes the massive amounts of wealth, like his throne, a chair carved from a single piece of Hegel quartz, blue-green translucency shot through with streaks of yellow fire. And then we've got uh our good old friend, the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Moeim, the Emperor's Truceir. And she's older, obviously. Her face peered out of the hood like a witch caricature, sunken cheeks and eyes, an overlonged nose, skin mottled and with protruding veins. So she's she's aged a bit since the last time we encountered her back in gosh, what was that chapter? Was it chapter one or two? I think it was chapter one, yeah. Yeah, it was very, very early. So anyway, and then we also get two guild agents, one tall and fat. The one short and fat. Both fat. Both. So yeah, oh, sorry, we get a tall one and a short one. And I don't know. It just it it's very reminiscent of like some old animations where you get like these kind of like almost buffoonish type characters where you'd be like a short one and a tall one. I don't know. Uh it it has just a flavor to me. I can't quite place it.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

It does seem like a very common pairing that you find in a lot of media where it's like you got tall and you got short.

Michael Kentris 48:35

Yes. And then we finally meet the Princess Arulin, a woman they said was being trained in the deepest of the Bene Jesserit ways, destined to be a Reverend Mother. She was tall, blonde, face of chiseled beauty, green eyes that looked past and through him. So This is from the Baron's perspective, obviously. And I'm gonna not gonna lie, I enjoy the Reverend Mother in this scene because she's just like they're really making her like being like an old witch character, like a ridiculous caricature almost. So the the Baron says, I came at your summons, Majesty, and she's like, summons, she cackles. The old witch cackled is written here. Literally what's read. Yes. But anyway. So they're asking, where's Thufer? And uh he's been gone five days, Majesty. He was to land at a smuggler base and attempt infiltrating the camp of the Freeman fanatic, this Muddeb. Incredible, the Emperor said. And uh tell me, Baron, why aren't you worried about his absence? It's like, but I am worried. And the Reverend Mother again emitted a cackling laugh. And I think Right My Perception on this is that right, she's the truthsayer. She knows that what he is saying is true, right? But he's like dancing around the answer to the question. He doesn't say why he's worried or what he is worried about, just that he is worried, right? Like we know he's worried just being in the presence of the emperor, right? Because it's like, oh man, this might go bad for me.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Um It's very reminiscent of like the Aes Sedai in the Wheel of Time, who are bound into an oath where they cannot lie, but it's always like, like, do not trust their words. It's very similar to the vibe here.

The Raid Message And Paul’s Grief

Michael Kentris 50:15

Yeah. Right. The Emperor just stares him down here and he's like, What I mean, Majesty, is that Hawaii will be dead within another few hours anyway. Explaining about the poison and lack of antidote. Um, and he's talking about you know, he sent his nephews out to check the perimeter to avoid a you know, a Freeman attack under the cover of a storm. And uh perimeter, the Emperor said. The worm word came out as though it puckered his mouth. The storm won't be much here in the basin, and that Freeman rabble won't attack while I'm here with five legions of Sardakar. So we get here, the Emperor is obviously very confident in his abilities and his status.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Absolutely. I mean it's it's the very similar thing that the Baron had sort of expressed about the Fremen also several chapters ago. Just like Fremen, who cares? There's like what, a few thousand left, they're almost extinct. Right.

Michael Kentris 51:06

Right, so it's this this consistent uh underestimating of the natives of the planet here. And it's like surely not, Majesty, but error on the side of caution cannot be censured. The Emperor said, Censure, then I'm not to speak of how much time this Arrakis nonsense has taken from me, nor the chome company profits pouring down this rat hole, nor the court functions and affairs of state I've had to delay even cancel because of this stupid affair. So, to your point earlier, Will.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Yes.

Emperor Court And Alia’s Capture

Michael Kentris 51:38

Yes, the Emperor is displeased. So they talk about uh Emperor asks, Have you taken hostages? And Baron says it's useless. They hold a burial ceremony as if they were already dead every time someone is captured. So the Emperor's perhaps you've s never sought the right kind of hostages. So basically the emperor is like asking him questions. And right, it's kind of like that conversation he had with Thufer in the previous chapter about, like you were saying, the underestimation of the Freeman. And it's like, do you have any idea who this Muaddeb could be, the Emperor S? One of the Uma, surely, a Freeman fanatic, a religious adventurer, they crop up regularly on the fridges of civilization. Your Majesty knows this. And you have no other knowledge of this Mu'adib. A madman, but all freemen are a little mad. As people scream his name as they leap into battle, the women throw their babies at us and hurl themselves onto our knives to open a wedge for their men to attack us. They have no no decency. That was such a strange word choice there. Mm-hmm. I mean, on the part of the Baron. Um and now they're talking again about the southern polar regions, right? The quote unquote uninhabitable areas. Um there's always these reports about green vegetation and things like that. Yes. And um basically it was uh it's too costly, a place where men cannot survive for long. So, the Emperor said. He snaps his fingers, a door opens and is left behind throne. Through the door came two Sartakar hurting a girl child who appeared to be about four years old. She wore a block abba, the hood thrown back to reveal the attachments of a still suit hanging free at her throat. Her eyes were Freeman blue, staring out of a soft round face. She appeared completely unafraid, and there was a look to her stare that made the Baron feel uneasy for no reason he could explain. Even the old Benny Gesserit truthsayer drew back as the child passed and made a warning sign in her direction. I love uh Aliy is such a great character. And we get this uh this this little monologue from here. The emperor cleared his start to speak, but the child spoke first, a thin voice with traces of a soft palate lisp, but clear nonetheless. So here he is, she said. She advanced to the edge of the Dais. He doesn't appear much, does he? One frightened old fat man too weak to support his own flesh without the help of suspensors. And he's just like stunned, right? He's like, you know, is this a child? Is this a midget? So he's like he can't believe it's a child, right? He just thinks maybe it's a you know a short person. Um and my dear Baron the Emperor said, Become acquainted with the sister of Muadib. So anyway, right, they they talk about like the southern region is not uninhabited, you dolt. Right. Is essentially the the message of this speech.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah, the rumors of the south being completely uninhabited may have been exaggerated to some extent.

Michael Kentris 54:34

Perhaps. And I like this, this thing from the Emperor here. Unfortunately, the Emperor said, I only sent in five troop carriers with a light attack force to pick up prisoners for questioning. We barely got away with three prisoners and one carrier. Mind you, Baron, my Sardaukar were almost overwhelmed by a force composed mostly of women, children, and old men. This child here was in command of one of the attacking groups. So, right, like how bizarre must this story sound, right? The Sardaukar are this like legendary imperial fighting force. And I like this. Uh he goes into this. The child says, I allowed myself to be captured. I did not want to face my brother and have to tell him that his son had been killed. The Emperor continues. Like, there's two parallel conversations going on here, and like the Emperor's just not acknowledging Aliyah. Only a handful of our men got away, the Emperor. Got away! You hear that? The child says, We'd have had them too, except for the flames. My Sartakar used the attitudinal jets on their carrier as flamethrowers, a move of desperation, and the only thing that got them away with their three prisoners. Mark that, my dear Baron. Sartakar forced to retreat in confusion from women and children and old men. So anyway, so the Emperor is like, uh, you say you don't know about the activity we found, nor the fighting quality of these superb people. What do you take me for, Baron? So anyway, the Emperor sounds upset, to put it mildly.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Yes, to say the least. It almost seems like he's trying to figure out, you know, is the Baron playing dumb just with how much he doesn't know. Right. But unfortunately the Baron is that dumb.

Michael Kentris 56:13

Right. So the so the Baron's bleeding here. Majesty. The child said, Make him afraid some more, Shadam. I shouldn't enjoy this, but I find the pleasure impossible to suppress. Quiet, child. Is it possible, Baron? Could you be as simple minded as my truthsayer suggests? Do you not recognize this child, daughter of your ally, Duke Leto? Um My father was never his ally. My father is dead, and this old hearkening beast has never seen me before. The Baron was reduced to stupefied glaring. When he found his voice it was only to rasp who I am Aliyah, daughter of Duke Leto and the Lady Jessica, sister of Duke Paul Muadib. My brother has promised to have your head atop his battle standard, and I think he shall. So this is all quite uh quite good.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

So I do like how the Emperor just keeps on like being like, Be hushed, child. Just constantly like Yes.

Michael Kentris 57:10

She's like, I do not take the Emperor's orders. She turned, looked up at the old Reverend Mother. She knows, right? So definitely some back and forth here. And she's like, the Empress, what does she mean? I I'm just I know I'm reading a lot right here, but uh this is like some great dialogue. Yeah. That child is an abomination, the old woman said. Her mother deserves a punishment greater than anything in history. Death. It cannot come too quickly for that child or for the one who spawned her. The old woman pointed a finger at Aliyah. Get out of my mind. And I'm immediately thought back to those uh for those who have watched the old X-Men animated series from the 90s. Get out of my head, Charles! Thank you, Dougher Nott, for that excellent gift. So the old woman, the the Reverend Mother is saying, like, you don't understand, Majesty. Not telepathy, she's in my mind, like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my mind. She cannot be there, but she is. And we know what they're talking about with like these race memories, but the Emperor does not, because this is a very closely held Bene Gesserit secret. Anywho, right, so we go on. And there's a little bit back and forth here. Like the Reverend Mother's just like, kill her, kill her. Right. Right. They're trying to explain, like uh, you know, you you don't understand. Like you're babbling like a blind old fool. And uh Aaliyah says, My brother knows I'm here, and the Emperor asked, can you tell him to surrender as the price of your life? Aliyah smiled up at him with clear innocence. I shall not do that. Right? It's just like it's so badass, basically. Like it's just Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Despite the severity of her current situation, or at least so it appears from you know, us the reader, she is completely just not respecting any of the individuals here, giving them any weight to kind of the importance of what they're trying to do.

Michael Kentris 58:58

And uh the Emperor's like, You will not, huh? Can you read my mind what I'll do if you disobey? I've already said I cannot read minds, but one doesn't need telepathy to read your intentions. And the Emperor says, Scowls, child, your cause is hopeless. I have but to rally my forces and reduce this planet to it's not that simple, Aliyah said. She looked at the two guildsmen, asked them. It is not wise to go against my desires, the emperor said. You should not deny me the least thing, which again, I just love that turn of phrase. It's it's very archaic, as far as like, you know, old Bible translations and old religious texts and things like that. So it has it has very much that old testament flavor to it. My brother comes now, Aliyah said. Even an emperor may tremble before Muaddib, for he has the strength of righteousness and heaven smiles upon him. So anyway, the room rumbles and uh the lights flicker, and I told you, Aaliyah said, my brother comes, right? I can just imagine this like from a set-I haven't watched the second Dune movie. I don't know if this scene was in there.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

I I mean, definitely not with Aaliyah, just because they didn't want to have the unsettling adult child doing a lot of the action, but uh which is too bad. Right. But apparently, apparently that was a thing with previous iterations where testing was like, hmm, this this the unsettling girl child. The unsettling girl child, which again makes sense because she is supposed to be an unsettling girl child.

Desert Attack With Worm Riders

Michael Kentris 1:00:22

Right. That's the whole point. She has the memory of thousands of lives in the body of a four-year-old. It should be unsettling. That's the whole point of it, right? Anyway, that's too bad. Because this is like, I can just imagine this from a cinematic perspective, and it's just to be like you get this like, you know, goosebumps just come up. So anyway, very, very uh visually appealing. So the uh we now learn the freemen are attacking. As he spoke, uh was it this was good. Bearing my apologies, these madmen are attacking under cover of the storm. We will show them an emperor's wrath then. He pointed at Aaliyah, give her body to the storm, which if we took it look at modern fiction, I sometimes wonder. You know, uh Brandon Sanderson's series The Way of Kings and all that jazz, right? Storms play figuratively, and I think they use very similar phrasing when they sometimes exp like basically death by exposure. Yeah. Uh in some of these situations there, which, you know, it's a very primeval kind of thing, so he may have come to it independently, it's certainly possible. As he spoke, Aaliyah fled backward, feigning terror. Let the storm have what it can take, she screamed, and she backed into the Baron's arms. I have her Majesty, the Baron shouted. Shall I dispatch her now? He hurled her to the floor, clutched his left arm. I'm sorry, grandfather, Aaliyah said. You've met the Atreides gom jabber. She got to her feet, dropped a dark needle from her hand. The Baron fell back, his eyes bulged as he stared at a red slash on his left palm. You, you, he rolled sideways in his suspensors, a sagging mass of flesh, supported inches off the floor with head lolling and mouth hanging open. These people are insane, the Emperor snarled. Quick, into the ship, we'll purge this planet of every. And then we learn the shield is down, they've shot off the noses of our ship, right? All this stuff is happening like in rapid succession, right? Like things are just happening. Breakneck speed, right? You know, things are getting broken down. They see a black robed figure momentarily. Uh Aaliyah darts out to find a knife, right? So Aaliyah, Saint Aaliyah of the Knife, I think she was called in one of the previous excerpts from the Princess Arulin's books. Right. She's living up to her name here. And now we see that there is out of the sand haze came an orderly mass of flashing shapes, great rising curves with crystal spokes that resolved into the gaping mouths of sandworms, a massed wall of them, each with troops of freemen riding to the attack. So very exciting, right? So just to kind of like sequence this out a little bit, the they had an atomic charge to breach the shield wall, right? That is what keeps the worms out. The storm came in, they had their guns pointed at the noses of the ships, and they blasted a hole in the wall, and then they basically used the sandworms to immediately enter in the storm on the ground. So they got their ground forces in through like this whole sequence of events. So like something that was completely unexpected. The desert power. Desert power. Desert power. Literally the power of the desert. So anyway, I just find it all like it's it's very well done in terms of the sequencing of events. It's it's very logical and in hindsight makes complete sense. So hangs together very nicely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

No, I I appreciated this a lot just in terms of the feasibility of a strike against a technologically superior opponent who you would think would have the defensive advantage here, but it's very much the case of they knew what their defenses were and were able to strategically take them down bit by bit before they had a moment to react and respond. Warm strike.

Michael Kentris 1:04:02

So as this is going on here, we kind of pan back, you know, camera-wise, to the two guildsmen. The taller of the two, though, held a hand to his left eye as the emperor watched someone jostle the guildsman's arm. The hand moved, and the eye was revealed. The man had lost one of his masking contact lenses, and the eye stared out a total blue, so dark as to be almost black. And so they're talking about we cannot know how it will go, and the taller said, but this Muadib cannot know either. So they're they're kind of talking about what should we do?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

Mm-hmm.

Michael Kentris 1:04:35

So they had one weapon left and they both knew it. Treachery. The Reverend Mother and the Emperor, that is. Sorry, go ahead, Will.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

It's very much kind of what Paul was alluding to earlier about how, you know, with multiple people who are able to kind of see into the future to some extent, they're able to muddy what's going to be able to happen. So, you know, it's like we don't know what's going to happen. We cannot know how it will go because we both have this advantage of foresight or future sight. Right.

Michael Kentris 1:05:06

So they bring in the Count Fenring, and then we get chapter break.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Chapter Break.

Taking The Mansion And Sending Terms

Michael Kentris 1:05:12

And again, another passage from Arrakis Awakening by Princess Rulin. I just love it, like some really good visual imagery here, and it almost has like almost I want to say like an Arthurian character to this one, if you will. He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Mu'adib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice then? Remember we speak now of the Muadib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins. The Muadib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely, I am the Quisatz Hatarak, that is reason enough. So very interesting. Here. And I think that is emphasized here in this chapter a couple of times, right? Where he says, like, you know, I am Paul, but I am also Muaddeb. It's like, you know, Paul Atreides may guarantee something, but Muaddeb did not. Almost as if he is, in fact, two different people. But we'll get to that in a moment, I think. So we shift now to the Arakean governor's mansion. So the Freemen are now occupying the mansion, and uh his troops, you know, are looking around suspiciously. It'd been so long, the enemy stronghold, right? They don't trust anything. So they're kind of searching, looking for traps, making sure there aren't any leftover surprises.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

I thought it was interesting how we do have like a small time skip here where we launched the attack and we saw it from two different perspectives, from Paul's perspective, and then just now from the Padashaw Emperor's court. And obviously, you know, it was very effective, but we don't necessarily see any of the gritty details about how the subsequent fight went, particularly against the Sardacar.

Michael Kentris 1:07:05

Which we can assume, I think, that if they're in the governor's mansion, probably they won. So so they're why are they doing this, right? They're like, I'd feel safer in one of my caves, you know, Gurney says, and then still goes like spoken like a true freeman. Um and Paul's basically saying this is a symbol, we have to occupy it so that you know people recognize, right? It's it's a mental thing. So um, you know, he's summoning Chani and Jessica, asking if Chani knows about the death of their son, and he says a message has been sent. So asking like damage reports, lives, you know, and we get a little bit here that saying that there's some extensive damage on the landing field, the spice storage yards, as much as from the battle as from the storm, and Paul says nothing, money won't repair, I presume. And then Gurney says, except for the lives. And we kind of had this earlier too, where Gurney and Paul first reconnected, where he had basically blown up some of those carriers and killed some of the men with Gurney. And uh, you know, there there's this still a little bit of implication that it's not how in a treaties would act, right? So we get this dichotomy already kind of creeping in here between Paul and Mueddeed.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

Absolutely.

Michael Kentris 1:08:21

So as we continue forward in this scene, we get some more information coming in, and basically finds out the emperor is still holed up in the remains of his ship. And basically they're, you know, have they found the Harkinans? They're still searching the dead bodies, and he wants to send a message, Paul does, to the Emperor. Bring me a captive Sartakar, it's time to discuss terms. So and I we get this little bit here, you know, obviously we have Gurney Halleck. There have been a dearth of quotations from Gurney, I will say, and Paul notices this also. So Paul says, Gurney, Paul whispered, since we've been rejoined, I've yet to hear you produce the proper quotation for the event. He turned, saw Gurney swallow, saw the sudden grim hardening of the man's jaw. As you wish, my lord, Gurney said, he cleared his throat, rasped, and the victory that day was turned into mourning unto all the people, for the people heard say that day how the king was grieved for his son. Paul closed his eyes, forcing grief out of his mind. So obviously, uh this is a quotation from 2 Samuel chapter 19, verse 2. And so this is uh this is referring to uh David regaining the throne from his son Absalom. So uh Absalom had rebelled against King David, and so they had basically fought against one another, and Absalom was killed in the course of events. I believe he was hung by somebody. So anyway, I don't know that that mirrors this quite well. I mean, if you just take the quote out of context, sure, right? It seems like it fits very well. But in this context, it was in the setting of a basically a a war between father and son, due to a rebellious son, um, as opposed to this, you know, where his son was killed by an enemy who was attacking him. So I don't think it carries the same spirit in context, but I mean, surface level reading, sure. Yeah, it's fine. Anyway, my my critique of the moment, but anyway. So So this was interesting. As we go through this, he gave his thoughts over to the day's accumulated discoveries, the mixed futures and the hidden presence of Aaliyah within his awareness. Of all the uses of time vision, this was the strangest. I have breasted the future to place my words where only you can hear them, Aaliyah had said. Even you cannot do that, my brother. I find it an interesting play. And oh yes, I've killed our grandfather, the demented old baron. He had very little pain. Right. So who knows what Aaliyah can do, right? It's just She's got some some weird Aaliyah technology that is known only to her. Right. It's a strange thing. And so we get like, you know, uh someone comes up, Muhadeb, it's like, you found the body of the old Baron. And it's like, how could you know? Right? So it's one of these like his mystique further increases here. And so they uh they bring one of the Sardacar. He was of the blonde, chisel-featured caste, the look that seemed synonymous with rank among the Sartakar. So anyway, Sardacar guy, uh, do you know who I am? Or what was he? I am the Duke Paulutrides. Do you understand that man? I of course had to highlight this here. It's like, who am I, Paul demanded? You are the Duke Paul Trides, the man husked. So we got husking back. He seemed too submissive for a Sardacar. So I thought it was interesting here. They'd never known anything but victory, which Paul realized could be a weakness in itself. He thought that aside, put that aside for his training programs for his own people later on. So basically he's saying that I have a message for you to carry to the Emperor. I, a duke of a great house, an imperial kinsman, give my word of bond under the convention. If the emperor and his people lay down their arms and come to me here, I will guard their lives with my own. I swear it by this, holding up his ducal signet. So they send him out, and uh under the sky sky. Stilgar whispers, yes. Um this is kind of uh an interesting thing. In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Freeman Naib, right, boss, to a creature of the Lisan al-Ghaib, a receptacle receptacle for awe and obedience. It was a lessening of the man, and Paul felt the ghost wind of the jihad in it. I have seen a friend become a worshiper, he thought. An interesting perspective, right? Kind of like the, you know, it's lonely at the top kind of perspective here, where he's achieved this mythical status, so even his close friends and longtime allies are now starting to view him as something other man. So as they go on here, they find out Rabin, too, is dead. Um the guard snap to attention, Jessica stops in front of Paul, right? Paul she looks down at him, he's sitting in this old chair. She found no compassion for him. It was though she had been rendered incapable of any emotion for her son. I think this is ever since they uh he woke up from the the water of life event, right? After like kind of grasping through her mind and memories. And I like this, uh, there should be a word tension directly opposite to Adob, the demanding memory. There should be a word for memories that deny themselves. Complicated thought. I don't know. Something to ponder on. Where is Aaliyah? She asked, outdoing what any good Freeman child should be doing at such times, killing enemy wounded and marking their bodies for the water recovery teams. Paul, you must understand that she does this out of kindness. Isn't it odd how we misunderstand the hidden unity of kindness and cruelty?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:55

Yeah, it seems to be kind of like a recurring thing, you know. The universe does not realize what cruelty is, I think was what Paul had thought before this uh initial siege or attack that they had started.

Michael Kentris 1:14:08

Yes. And he kind of goes into this, right? How would you like why? Why is this happening, right? How would you like to live billions upon billions of lives? There's a fabric of legends for you. Think of all those experiences, the wisdom they'd bring, but wisdom tempers love, doesn't it? And it puts a new shape on hate. How can you tell what's ruthless unless you've plumbed the depths of both cruelty and kindness? You should fear me, mother. I am the Quisatz Hatteract. And uh yeah, but kind of before this, right? The men tell strange stories uh that you see where others cannot see. And he's like, A Benet Jesser should ask about legends, right? Because this whole missionaria protectiva, right? It's like your order made these legends up, right? Like, why are you asking me about them? Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

No, it's it's definitely a general disdain, it seems, of what they've set out to achieve over the how many generations of their program.

Michael Kentris 1:15:02

Right. And they're kind of talking about uh the Emperor and his people come now, they will be announced to stand beside me, I wish a clear view, my future bride will be among them. And like Paul, Jessica snapped, don't make the mistake your father made. And it doesn't say specifically what mistake, but I feel like it is the mistake that Duke Leto never married Lady Jessica. That seems like what it's intimated, based on what he's saying here. She's a princess, she's my key to the throne, and that's all she'll ever be. Mistake you think because I'm what you made me, that I cannot feel the need for revenge. Even on the innocent, she asked, and she thought, he must not make the mistakes I made. And Paul says, There are no innocent any more very bleak perspective. So Shawnee shows up, walked with a fragile uncertainty as she crossed the room to stand beside Jessica. Paul saw the marks of the tears on her cheeks. She gives water to the dead, and he felt a pang of grief strike through him. But it was as though he could only feel this thing through Shawnee's presence. He is dead, beloved, Shawny said. Our son is dead. He can't be replaced, Paul said, but there will be other sons. It is Usul who promises this. So again, we kind of have this threefold person, right? Paul Atreides, Muad Deeb, and Usul. So it's it's very interesting just the the roles, right? He almost treats them as if they are different people. It's an interesting way to characterize him. That's all I can think of at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

Absolutely. And I mean it's certainly like something that probably most people do on a day-to-day basis. I wouldn't necessarily say to this degree, of course, but you know, different the different masks that we each wear on our day-to-day, you know, we have uh Mike the Doctor, Mike the husband, Mike the brother, you know, for each of those roles, each of those we comport ourselves in different ways in different scenarios in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:57

Yes.

Confrontation With The Emperor And Guild

Michael Kentris 1:16:57

Yes. Yeah, I guess it's uh it's different when I guess one of these is a near legendary figure of myth. Right. So uh thankfully none of us have to wear that mantle. So So yes, right, they prepare for the arrival. Uh they notice Fade Rautha, Harkinen, is with them, and Gurney asks, Shall I cut him out? And um there are also some guild people demanding special privileges, threatening an embargo against Arrakis. I told them I'd give you their message. Let them threaten. Uh and Paul basically says, like, I'll pull their fangs presently, which I enjoyed. They might have taken Arrakis when they realized the error of specializing on the melange awareness spectrum narcotic for their navigators. They could have done this, lived their glorious day, and died. Instead, they'd existed from moment to moment, hoping the seas in which they swam might produce a new host when the old one died. Always chosen the clear, safe course that leads ever downward into stagnation. This is a theme that I think they pick up a bit uh over those last two chapters, is the theme of safety versus safety and stagnation versus unpredictability and growth. So it's yeah, I think it's a fairly common opposition in terms of thought, right? Um I'm just trying to frame my thoughts more clearly, but but it is definitely a thing that we see. And I mean, if you look back at different like societies and cultures, there is certainly a flavor of this, like throughout history, in different eras. So I suppose it makes sense, right? That the universe had been stagnant for too long. It needed a little shakeup here, and we get, I think, some more explication about his thoughts on how that's going to happen later. Uh I like this part here also. There's also a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother who says she's a friend of your mother, Gurdy said, and also, my mother has no Benedicer friend. So anyway. And then we learn also Thufer, Hawat is with them. Uh, he used our old hand signs to say he's been working with the Harkinans, thought you were dead, says to leave them among them. So everyone comes in. The Pasha Emperor Shadam IV led his people into the hall. He was beltless and without weapons, but his presence moved with him like a force shield bubble that kept his immediate area open. And a Freeman Lance drops across his path, stopping him where Paul had ordered, right? So they're kind of inverting this, right? You didn't approach closer than what was it, ten paces to the throne. He stopped him ten meters from from his throne here. So he's basically, you know, doing some uh posturing here in terms of like the actual physical positioning in the room. And uh we also get the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohaim glaring beneath her black hood and beside her the narrow furtiveness of Fade Routha Harkinen. There's a face time betrayed to me, Paul thought. He looked beyond Fade, I thought this was very interesting here. He looked beyond Fade Routha, then, attracted by a movement, seeing there a narrow, weaseless weaselish face he'd never before encountered, not in time or out of it. It was a face he felt you should know, and the feeling carried with it a marker of fear. Why should I fear that man? he wondered. He leaned toward his mother, whispered, that man to the left of the revered mother, the evil looking one, who is that? Count Fenring, she said, the one who was here immediately before us, a genetic eunuch and a killer.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

So I thought that was a really interesting passage just because, you know, with the how many lifetimes he said that he had gone through and experienced, and in none of them had he ever seen this man's face. So it's very much like how did he evade my detection? You know, it seems like obviously he's not part of the guild, so he's not using their prescience more or less to kind of avoid this time nexus detection, but And right, Paul has a thought to that point.

Michael Kentris 1:20:44

He'd seen his own dead body along countless reaches of the time web, but never once had he seen his moment of death. Have I been denied a glimpse of this man because he is the one who kills me? So question mark. So uh he also notices a tall, blonde, green-eyed woman, a face of patrician beauty, classic in its houture, untouched by tears, completely undefeated. Right, so a very statuesque, classic beauty type description here, right? For those who right, patrician, right, kind of the upper class of the Roman nobility. Anyway, hoture, I love that. Very good fancy word. Princess Royal, Benny Gesserit trained a rulin. So, and then we also see Thufer Howat, seemed old features with darkly stained lips, the hunched shoulders, the look of fragile age about him. So he he has them take Thufer to the side, and uh Thufer looks at Legiska. I but learned this day how I've wronged you with my thoughts, you needn't forgive. Thufer old friend Paul said, I love this. This is a great callback. As you can see, my back is toward no door. And Hawat says, The universe is full of doors. Am I my father's son, Paul asked, more like your grandfather's Hawat rasp, you have his manner and the look of him in your eyes. And he basically says, Uh in payment for your years of service to my family, you may now ask anything you wish of me. Anything at all. Do you need my life now, Thoufer? It is yours. And uh he sees the look of awareness in Hawat's eyes, realizes I know of the treasury, and uh Paul said in a half whisper, I mean this, Thufer. If you're to strike me, do it now. And he says, I but wanted to stand before you once more, my Duke. And then he basically collapses, right? Is there pain? There is pain, my duke, but the pleasure is greater. Uh so holds his hand up, exposing the tiny needle cupped against the fingers. Like, see Majesty, he called, see your traitor's needle. Did you think that I who have given my life to service of the Atreides would give them less now? And then the old man saged in his arms, felt the death there, the utter flaccidity. Very sad, but uh good for Thufer, honorable to the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:54

And again, this is kind of the Emperor's backup plan, more or less. Now that Thufer is taken that way out, a look of deadly waiting held the Emperor's face now, eyes that had never omitted fear emitted it at last.

Michael Kentris 1:23:07

Right, so he's finally starting to break his facade. And he was like, Majesty The words have been uttered with the Bene Gesserit controlled atonals, carrying in it every shade of contempt and scorn that Paul could put there. I like this. This is this is some good back and forth here, you know, because between two guys who are like super full of themselves. The Emperor cleared his throat, said, Perhaps my respected kinsman believes he has things all his own way now. Nothing could be more remote from fact. You have violated the convention, used atomics against it's like I used atomics against a natural feature of the desert. Point of order. I can imagine like like uh you know pushing glasses up Actually. Actually. It was in my way, and I was in a hurry to get to you, Majesty, to ask your explanation for some of your strange activities. And then the Emperor replies, There's a masked armada of the great houses in space over Arrakis right now. I have but to say the word and they'll it's like, oh yes, Paul said. I almost forgot about them. Just cut the biggest. He searched. Yeah. Right. Are those are those the guild agents, Gurney, the two fat ones dressed in gray over there? Just like he's just like so dismissive and basically treating everyone in this party with contempt. You too, Paul said, pointing, get out of there immediately. Get dispatch messages that will get that fleet on its way home. After this, you'll ask my permission before. The guild doesn't take your orders, the taller of the two barked. You may very well be under embargo. If I hear any more nonsense from either of you, I'll give the order that it'll destroy all spice protection on Arrakis forever. Are you mad? The tall guildsman demanded. You grant that I have the power to do this thing. Yes, you could do it, but you must not. Ah, Paul said and nodded himself. Guild navigators, both of you. You would blind yourself too, and condemn us all to slow death. Have you any idea what it means to be deprived of the spice liquor once you're addicted? The eyes the eye that looks ahead to the safe course is closed forever. The guild is crippled. Humans become little isolated clusters on their isolated planets. You know, I might do this thing out of pure spite or out of ennui. Basically like, let us talk this over privately. Like send the message to your people over Arrachus. I grow tired of this argument. You may use our equipment, right? So he's like this. Waving his hands, like, I grow weary of your weak complaints.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:24

That's right. First, we must discuss this. We cannot just like do it. The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it. You've agreed I have that power. We're not here to discuss or to negotiate or to compromise. You'll obey my orders or suffer the immediate consequences. And they're both like, oh, he's not bluffing. So they go and send those send those messages. Yes.

Michael Kentris 1:25:51

So Paul turns back to the emperor here and is like, when they permitted you to mount your father's throne, it was only on the assurance that you keep the spice flowing and you have failed them. Do you know the consequences? It's like nobody permitted me. Sorry. Stop playing the fool, Paul Bark. The guild is like a village beside a river. I love this long drawn out analogy. They need the water, but can only dip out what they require. They cannot dam the river and control it because that focuses attention on what they take. It brings down eventual destruction. The spice flow, because the spice must flow. That's the river, and I have built a dam. But my dam is such that you cannot destroy it without destroying the river. Even your Benny Gesseret truthsayer is trembling. There are other poisons the Reverend Mothers can use for their tricks, but once they've used the spice liquor, the others no longer work. And then we get some some conversation with Reverend Mother Gaius here. It has been a long time since Kaladin, hasn't it? She looks at Jessica, as like, Well, Jessica, I see that your son is indeed the one. For that you can be forgiven, even the abomination of your daughter. Paul stilled a cold, piercing anger, said, You've never had the right or cause to forgive my mother anything. Try our tricks on me, old witch. Where's your gom jabber? Try looking into that place where you dare not look. You'll find me there staring out at you.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:08

She tries to like save a little bit of face there. I welcome you to the ranks of humans, she muttered, Don't besmirch that. Right.

Michael Kentris 1:27:14

Yes, and he's like basically like Paul's like grandstanding here, right? Observe, comrades, this is a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, patient in a patient cause. She could wait with her sisters ninety generations for the proper combination of genes and environment to produce the one person their schemes required. She knows now that the ninety generations have produced that person. Here I stand, but I will never do her bidding. Jessica the old woman screams, Silence him. She's like, Silence him yourself. I was like, for your Paul says, for your part in all this, I could gladly have you strangled. You couldn't prevent it. But I think the better punishment is that you live out your years, unable to touch me or bend me to a single thing your scheming desires. And he basically says like Silence, Paul R. You know, he like basically shuts her up with the voice. And she like reels back as if struck. It's like, I remember your gum jabber, you remember mine, I can kill you with a word. And the freedom, his word shall carry death eternal to those who stand against righteousness. So as we go on here, he turns his attention back to the Emperor and uh says like we both know a way out of this, and he's like, You dare. You, an adventurer without a family and nobody. You've already admitted who I am. Royal kinsman, you said. Let's stop this nonsense. I am your ruler, the emperor said. Yes, so they keep going back and forth, and eventually Princess Arulin herself intervenes, and she's like, Father, here is a man fit to be your son. And Shawny goes up to Paul's side and says, Do you wish me to leave? And he's like, Leave, you'll never again leave my side. And he's like, Speak only truth with thee, my Sahya, right? Desert Oasis, I think, yes. That which binds us cannot be loosed. Now watch these matters closely, for I wish to see this room later through your wisdom. So they're kind of having a little, you know, aside here of the emperor and the princess, and Paul is explaining to his mother what's going on, and she's basically like, Why are you explaining this to me? I taught you everything you know. You know, don't be rude. More or less. As this is going on, Gurney walks over and is like, I remind you, there's a harkining in that bunch. Gurney, he's got the bloodlust on him here a little bit. He's like, you know, can I can I kill him? You promised me. Right. And uh basically the emperor says, I believe my entourage has been placed under the protection of your ducal word, and uh you have the word of a duke, but Muaddeep is another matter. He may not recognize your definition of what constitutes an entourage. My friend Gurney Halleck wishes to kill a Harkinin. And Fayette Routher shouts, Canley. Uh oh. Uh oh. Knife fighting incoming.

Paul Versus Feyd In Canly

SPEAKER_02 1:29:59

The ways, the old ways.

Michael Kentris 1:30:01

The old ways. And I like this. You've had your day against them, Paul said. He felt a harlequin abandoned take over his emotions, right? So just like when he mounted the worm, right? He's got kind of this feeling of excitement and danger coursing through his veins here. So basically, we got a knife fight coming. Yes. So yeah, we've got uh Fade Routha, the treacherous uh arena fighter versus Paul Muadib, the hardened desert mouse.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

Yes, and the emperor is definitely leaning into a little bit, because again, he's just trying to get Paul killed just because it sounds like he's a threat to, you know, everything that he's trying to achieve. The Emperor was studying Phaedra, seeing the heavy shoulders with thick muscles. He turned to look at Paul, a stringy whip cord of a youth, not as desiccated as the Arake natives, but with ribs there to count and sunken in the flanks so that the ripple and gather of muscles could be followed under the skin. He's like, okay. Yeah, let's go ahead and uh let's try to give it a go. Yeah.

Michael Kentris 1:31:06

Yes. Um, and so Jessica leans in and she's whispering to him, sometimes a dangerous person is prepared by the Benegesseret, a word implanted into the deepest recesses by the old pleasure pain methods. The word sound most frequently used is eroshner. Uh it will render his muscles flaccid. And so Paul's like, I want no special advantages. Step back out of my way. So Gurney's like, Why is he doing this? Is this some sort of religious prattle? And he's like, I don't understand. He says it a couple of times, and then Jessica says, Be silent and pray. Right. So they uh they start fighting. And we get a fairly long fight here. So Paul is, you know, the guildsmen are standing over there, they're watching, they're frowned. You know, it's like, what do I do? Uh what if he dies? Then I don't have to do this thing, right? And so he sampled the time winds, sensing the turmoil, the storm nexus, and now focused on this moment. Even the faint gaps were closed now. Here was the unborn jihad he knew. Here was the race consciousness that he had known once as his own terrible purpose. The race of humans had felt its own dormancy, sensed itself grown stale, and knew now only the need to experience turmoil in which the genes would mingle and the strong new mixtures survive. So I made a note here. Essentially, like if you're if your plants cross-pollinate one another, right? They get away from a purebred. Apparently it's you know, same with animals, like mutt is more healthy than a purebred in certain fashions. So this this hybrid vigor can have increased genetic diversity, increased health growth, etc. So anyway, I don't know. It just struck a chord maybe when I was reading it the other day. And I'm just like, huh. This is a a common basically a common idea in both uh like the botanical sciences as well as like animal husbandry. So just trying to make sure yeah yeah, weaknesses within a line don't become more prominent. Right. Yeah, I like this. Jump forward a little bit here. All humans I mean, this is a little over the top here. This this feels very sixties as far as this, like there's few sentences that that date this a little bit. All humans were alive as an unconscious single organism in this moment, experiencing a kind of sexual heat that could override any barrier. Oh my. Anyway, he had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but that jihad would be. His legions would rage out from Arrakis even without him. They needed only the legend he had already become.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:50

Embracing its terrible purpose.

Michael Kentris 1:33:53

Embraced. This is the climax, Paul thought. From here the future will open, the clouds part onto a kind of glory, and if I die here, they'll say I sacrificed myself that my spirit might lead them. And if I live, they'll say nothing can oppose Muaddib.

unknown 1:34:08

Right?

Michael Kentris 1:34:08

This is very like messianic type of language. The cloud clouds parting, glory, you know, all this kind of stuff here.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:16

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Michael Kentris 1:34:18

Right. Jihad incoming, also jihad common. Yeah. So we get the opening words. Is the Atreides ready using the words of the ancient Canley ritual? May thy knife chip and shatter, Paul responds. So using the traditional Freeman reply. Mm-hmm. So we get a lot of back and forth here, and as expected, uh Fayed Routha has tricks and you know, is gonna try and poison him, right? So we get the the different fighting styles here. Fade Routha is a talker, right? He's trying to unsettle him, and Paul is not a talker, essentially. He is using silence. So as we go on here, Paul's kind of dancing around him. He's trying to take his measure, Duncan, Idaho style, and Fade Routha's trying to goad him into a premature attack, saying, like, does an a treatise run or stand and fight?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:13

I do like also, yeah, it's like, have you been shriven? referencing Abba confessing. Death confession, right?

Michael Kentris 1:35:19

Death confession. Right. It's like, are you ready to die? Boah. Yeah. So I know it's like it's some very formal trash talking at this point in time. Yes. So yes. Um And it's like, why prolong the inevitable? You but keep me from exercising my rights over this ball of dirt. So yeah, Fade, as they continually imply here, Fade Rotha is very overconfident. And we get another variation. There would be tricks within tricks within tricks.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:48

Tricks always come in threes, apparently.

Michael Kentris 1:35:50

Yes. You know, two is not enough, four is right out. So yes, they they're kind of probing back and forth, and we get a first blood. You know, Paul gets slashed, and there's a trace of soporific, right? A soporific something that makes you sleepy. And uh basically Paul is able to use his his quisatch hatteratch abilities to just like nullify it, essentially. And just are like, right. So he kind of fakes him out also. And then he in turn slashes Fay Routha on his arm, and he's like, He's poisoned me. I do feel poison in my arm. Paul's like, only a little acid to counter the soporific on the Emperor's blade, right? So they're kind of uh going back and forth here.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:36

Mm-hmm.

Michael Kentris 1:36:37

And so we get a uh a little needlepoint flick out around his belt line, and uh it barely misses Paul's flesh. Treachery within treachery within treachery.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:50

Treachery comes three.

Michael Kentris 1:36:52

It's coming. It's coming. And so basically it's uh it's a poison paralytic, it'll stop your muscles, and my knife will finish you. There'll never be a trace left to detect. They're kind of like locked, you know, like kind of core a core, you know, trying to basically like slam his hip needle into Paul here. It just sounds ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:08

It does yeah, it's hard to imagine very well without it looking ridiculous.

Fenring Refuses And Paul Takes The Throne

Michael Kentris 1:37:13

Right. As they're kind of in this thing here, his cell-stamped ancestors demanding that he use a secret word to slow Fed Rutha to save himself, and it's like, I will not say it, Paul gas. And then Fadratha gapes at him, caught in the merest fraction of hesitation, and that was enough. He breaks loose, and Paul twists his hand free, aided by the lubrication of blood from his arm, thrust once hard up underneath Fadha's jaw, the point slid home into the brain. Fade Ruther jerked and sagged back, still held partly on his side by the needle embedded in the floor. He reeled dead. He's dead. Goodbye, Harkinens. Yes, except right, Paul is a Harkin. Right? Um And so now Paul turns towards the Emperor again and is like, Majesty, your force is reduced by one more. Shall we now shed sham and pretense? Shall we now discuss what must be your daughter wed to me, and the way open for an Atreides to sit on the throne? The Emperor turns to look at Count Fenring. Count met his stare, grey eyes against green. The thought lay there clearly between them, their associations so long that understanding could be achieved with a glance. Kill this upstart for me, the emperor was saying. The Atreides is young and resourceful, yes, but he is also tired from long effort, and he'd be no match for you anyway. Calm out now, you know the way of it. Kill him. Slowly Fenring moved his head, a prolonged turning until he faced Paul. Do it, the emperor hissed. The count focused on Paul seeing with his eyes as Lady Margot had trained in the Benedress way, aware of the mystery and hidden grandeur about this Satridi's youth. I could kill him, Fenring thought, and he knew this for a truth. Sorry, this whole scene just feels like it's kind of played out in slow motion in my mental image here. And uh Paul, aware of some of this from the way the time nexus boiled, understood at last why he had never seen Fenring along the waves of pressurance. Fenring was one of the might have bens in almost Quisat's Hatarach, crippled by a flaw in the genetic pattern, a eunuch, his talent concentrated into furtiveness and inner seclusion. A deep compassion for the count flowed through Paul, the first sense of brotherhood he'd ever experienced. Fenring, reading Paul's emotion, said, Majesty, I must refuse. This is great here. Rage overcame Shadan IV. He took two short steps through the entourage, cuffed Fenring viciously across the jaw. A dark flush spread up and over the Count's face. He looked directly at the emperor, spoke with deliberate lack of emphasis. We have been friends, Majesty. What I do now is out of friendship. I shall forget that you struck me. Woof. Heavy, heavy. Right? It's just like this is your assassin. You just punched him in the face while you're on the brink of defeat. And he's just like just quells his emotion. It's like, I will give you this once, it feels what he's saying. And I like this here. We were discussing the throne, your majesty. The Emperor will glare at Paul. It's like I sit on the throne. It's like you shall have a throne on Seleuce Secundus, Paul said. Mm-hmm. Your person is safe in my presence, and a treaty has promised it. Muaddib, however, sentences you to your prison planet. But have no fear, Majesty, I will ease the harshness of the place with all the powers at my disposal. It shall become a garden world full of gentle things. As the hidden import of Paul's words grew in the emperor's mind, he glared across the room at Paul. Now we see true motives, he sneered. And yes, right, because if we think back, right, to that conversation with Thufer and the Baron about Seleuce's Gundus, right? This is a prison planet made to create hard fighting men. And he is just saying that I will make it full of gentle things, right? Your army, you, you will be gentled. That's right. Kind of calling back to the uh the wheel of time there. Yeah, absolutely. When they would, for those who aren't familiar, uh, when they would capture a male channel or magic user, because they would always go insane, they would quote unquote gentle them and cut them off from their abilities. Yes. Obviously that book came much later than this one, but but the idea remains the same. Anywho, uh, and what of Arrakis, the Emperor ass, another world, garden world full of gentle things. It's like there will be flowing water here, open to the sky, and green oases rich with good things. But we have the spice to think of too, thus there will always be desert on Arrakis, and fierce winds and trials to toughen a man. We have a freeman we freemen have a saying, God created Arrakis to train the faithful. One cannot go against the word of God.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:41

And then I like this. So the true sayer, she kind of intuits what he's implying here. She glimpsed the jihad and said, You cannot loose these people upon the universe. It's like you will think back to the gentle ways of the Sardakar, Paul snapped. And you cannot, she whispered, you're a true sayer, Paul said. Review your words.

First Reactions And Why Dune Holds Up

Michael Kentris 1:42:00

Right. So yeah, this is uh, right? Yeah, like who's gonna stop me? Um it is uh yeah, this this whole scene, there's just it's just action-packed, right? Like there's physical violence, there is political intrigue, just back and forth, great dialogue. It is just uh uh it's a rip roaring, you know? So uh we get here, you know, he turns to Chani and Jessica, and I know the reasons, Shani Whispered, if it must be Usoul, right? And it's like my Sahai, need fear, nothing ever. You will negotiate for me, mother, with Chani by your side. She has wisdom and sharp eyes, and it is wisely said that no one bargains tougher than a freeman. Jessica sends the harsh, harsh calculation in her son, put down a shutter. This kind of whole thing's like she can't feel any emotions for her son now. Except fear, perhaps. What are your instructions? she asked. The entire the emperor's entire chom company holdings as dowry. Entire he has to be stripped. I'll want an earldom and chom directorship for Gurney Halleck and him and the fief of Caladin. Titles and attendant power for every surviving Atreides man, not accepting the loathiest trooper. And what are the freemen? They are mine. They receive shall be dispensed by Muaddib. It'll begin with Stilgar as governor on Arrakis, but that can wait. And it's like, what about me? What do you want? Perhaps Kaladin, I'm not certain. I become too much the Freeman and the Reverend Mother. I need a time of peace and stillness in which to think. That you shall have, Paul said, and anything else that Gurney or I can give you. Jessica nodded, feeling suddenly old and tired. She looked at Chani, and for the royal concubine. No title for me, Chani whispered, nothing, I beg of you. And Paul whispers, I swear to you now that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife, and you but a concubine because this is a political thing, and we must wheel weld peace out of this moment, enlist the great houses of the Lansrat. We must obey the forms, yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine, nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire. So you say now, Chani said. She glanced across the room at the tall princess. Do you know so little of my son? Jessica whispered. See that princess standing there, so haughty and confident? They say she has pretensions of a literary nature. Which we know, yes, us listeners. Let us hope she finds solace in such things, she'll have little else. A bitter laugh escaped Jessica. Think on it, Chani, that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine, never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine, history will call us wives. That is the end. That's the end. So man, a lot uh a lot going on there, right? Like, and it just it ends right at the moment of negotiation as far as uh basically Paul taking the throne of the Padasha Emperor. So you know, a bit of a cliffhanger. I know there are many more books in the Dune series. Maybe we'll get to those someday. But uh Will, what are your what are your initial thoughts? I'm sure we'll do a like a more thorough post-wrap-up down the road here, but just initially, what are you thinking?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:10

I I really enjoyed this book, despite being written, what, in the 60s? I think 65. Like the quality of the writing just really holds up, particularly with the fact that it's sci-fi. I I do think a lot of the literature in the sci-fi genre on that time feels very dated, but this doesn't really have that. It definitely read as if you know something could be written within like the past few years without it feeling out of place as far as you know the verbiage and everything that was being used. Uh I thought the characters were great. I thought the overall kind of progression of the story itself, you know, flowed very nicely. Even during the more slow parts when they initially joined the Frame. There wasn't necessarily a point in time where I was like, I wish this would hurry up. It was it was just a great book. I really enjoyed it.

Michael Kentris 1:46:05

Yeah. I agree. And right, this is like I think the the third time I've read it. Um I remember it feeling slower when I was reading it by myself. So I think that doing this more in-depth reading has has really benefited me as well and made me appreciate a lot of those things quite a bit more, to be honest. And as you said, right, looking into some of these things, I feel like I've I've gained a greater appreciation for some of the depths. I'm sure there are many themes that we've only skirted around or not even touched on. Um, you know, things that we may have missed, references, illusions, and so forth. But uh but it is it is definitely right, it's a pillar of the genre for a reason. And you know, I I think it's uh it's been very interesting to see, right? The very tasteful, tasteful, I don't know, judicious, let's say, use of real-world cultures and religions. It really enhances that sense of versumilitude and realism that uh that you feel like like this could be a thing, right? Like the social structures and the ecology and all those things are very fascinating, and they, you know, at least to someone like me who may not be intimately familiar with all the details of them, seem to make sense. So it it has a very logical and realistic flavor to it. And I think that's probably part of why it has a more of a timeless feeling. You know, I know when I go back and read like, you know, some Asimov or other things like that, or even some Highline, or even further back, like Jules Verne, right, where they're on the moon and they're just like breathing air on the moon. That kind of stuff is like, well, I'm just gonna suspend my uh disbelief here for the sake of the story. Right. But anyway, and I think part of it is, right, it's not purely a materialistic story either. It does definitely have a mystical religious element running through it very strongly. And I think that a lot of science fiction, like the hard realism, I think it struggles with that, in as much as, you know, what do we do when like the material world is all there is? And so you end up trying to replace things with like different forces or powers or things like that that are kind of beyond human understanding. And to me, it always feels like a little bit of a cop-out for like, oh, you know, God's not real. Um, but like you're going to put something in that role of like a creator creation type of thing. And, you know, is it aliens? Is it uh, you know, dark matter, is it something, right? So I like that they just own up to that and say, like, you know, there's there is a a mystical element here, right? And they kind of still turn it back around a little bit with the Bene Gesserit and like, oh, this is all human manufactured. But there's there's kind of an idea in at least in you know in Christian thought, that uh there are I think you can see this uh like in in Dante's uh Divine Comedy, in Limbo, like you have the the philosophers, right? The pre-Christian philosophers are out there, right? Like like Virgil, for instance. Like the poets and the philosophers are were were quote unquote good men, but they were not Christian, so they're not like in paradise or anything. But it's this this idea that there were people who, through the use of human faculties, were able to come close to divine revelation. And it's like, is that what happened here with like the Ben A Jezeret, where we have this human organization, and through their abilities and faculties, they come close to divine revelation, but they do not quite achieve it. And I think there's I want to say this as a Catholic theologic thing, so I pardon, beg pardon for anyone who uh gets offended if I misquote, but uh talk about the the Christian faith as being a a bird borne aloft by the twin wings of reason and faith, something like that. Okay. I I might be Mangling that quote a bit. But that's the idea here, right? Is that reason gets you so far, but without like a faith and a you know some sort of religious aspect of things, you can't achieve the same heights. So anyway, I'll have to come around and say that I think that it does not eskew the religious and the mystical and all that in this book. And I think that's part of what makes it more relatable from a human experience. I don't know. What do you think of that, Will? Too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:25

Oh, absolutely. I particularly like the comment about the Benedicert themselves, because it it is interesting how, you know, that whole missionaria protectiva, you know, were kind of laying a foundation for this to happen, which to some degree seems to imply that they knew what would happen, or at the very least, kind of what the capabilities would come in terms of the Quizaterach would kind of manifest themselves. Because I, you know, they they were fulfilling all these prophecies that you know had been laid centuries, generations ago, that I'm assuming Paul wasn't inherently aware of. I mean, maybe sure eventually he did learn them and was able to step through those paces a little more proficiently, but you know, it's it's kind of like with the Gurney Halleck thing, where it's like there's like a quotation for everything. Right.

Appendix Plans And Where To Find Us

Michael Kentris 1:51:22

So yeah, this was this was uh I think a great first book for us to do. Certainly a heavy lift, yes. I haven't uh so for those who are listening, we have recorded all of these in advance of releasing any of them. So I don't have these numbered just yet. But it's a lot of time we spent talking about this book. And we're not done yet. So we have like all good sci-fi fantasy books, at the end there are appendices or appendixes, as it is written in my version here. So there's uh there's there's four appendices here: the ecology of Dune, the religion of Dune, a report on the Bene Jesserit motives, and the Almanac and Ashraf, selected excerpts, and then the terminology of the Imperium. Uh, we've been kicking around some ideas for books, and I think we have some candidates selected. And uh yeah, I hope you enjoyed going through Dune with us, and hopefully you continue on our journey through some of the pillars of the sci-fi fantasy genre and or others as as time may take us. Although we're sticking with sci-fi fantasy for the present.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:27

Yes.

Michael Kentris 1:52:27

But yeah, thank you all for listening, and I know this was a long one, but we wanted to finish it out for the last few chapters here.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:34

Can't leave you on a cliffhanger.

Michael Kentris 1:52:35

Right. So for those who want to reach out to us, you can find us on X at Brothers Reading, you can email us at brothersreadingbooks at gmail.com, and you can find our website at brothersreadingbooks.com. Did I forget anything, Will?

SPEAKER_02 1:52:51

I don't think so. Not at the moment.

Michael Kentris 1:52:54

If you've enjoyed this journey with us, leave us a five star review, share it with your friends, give us a review, feedback, blah, blah, blah. All that good stuff. Right? Thank you again. Appreciate everyone listening, and we will catch you next time.